[WIP] tiny! - Torpedo Mod

[minispace]

tiny! torpedo mod

Torpedo Improvement
(Nerf? Yes!)

~ being a tiny mod by a mini space ~

tiny! is an attempt to refine Silent Hunter 5's weapon damage to better simulate reality and improve game play. This mod is meant to compliment TheDarkWraith's "FX Update" or similar mods that add fire/flooding damage over time. I have found that with my current mod load out, u-boat munitions seem to be too effective, and I hope to dial down the destruction a little.

Version 1.0 - ¡Cinco de Mayo! edition (2011-05-05)

Download:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20302899/tiny%21+-+torpedo+mod+v1_0.7z

Installation
Install with JSGME.

This mod will overwrite your torpedoes_g7a-e and shells .zon files, altering the damage from your u-boat weapons. It should be compatible with all mods, with the exception of the overwritten damage stats.

Changelog
-v 1.0 - 2011-05-05
All torpedo types, & AP/HE shell damage stats altered:

G7a TI/FaT/LuT Stock tiny
------ ----- -----
MinEF 120 100
MaxEF 180 190
AP 100 100
MinRadius 3 3
MaxRadius 7 9

G7e TII Stock tiny
------ ----- -----
MinEF 120 97
MaxEF 180 186
AP 100 97
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 9

G7e TIII/FatII Stock tiny
-------------- ----- -----
MinEF 120 98
MaxEF 180 188
AP 100 98
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 9

G7e TIV "Falke" Stock tiny
--------------- ----- -----
MinEF 80 94
MaxEF 160 178
AP 100 96
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 8

G7es TV “Zaunkönig” Stock tiny
------------------- ----- -----
MinEF 80 95
MaxEF 160 180
AP 100 97
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 8

G7ut VII "Steinbarsch" Stock tiny
---------------------- ----- -----
MinEF 120 95
MaxEF 180 185
AP 100 98
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 9

G7es TXI “Zaunkönig II” Stock tiny
------------------- ----- -----
MinEF 80 95
MaxEF 160 180
AP 100 97
MinRadius 3 2.5
MaxRadius 7 8

88mm Armor Piercing Stock tiny
------------------- ----- -----
MinEF 8 10
MaxEF 16 20
AP 22 40
MinRadius .5 .2
MaxRadius 2 .5

88mm High Explosive Stock tiny
------------------- ----- -----
MinEF 10 5
MaxEF 25 25
AP 20 20
MinRadius 1 1.5
MaxRadius 3 4

[minispace]

Hi all!

This is my first Silent Hunter 5 mod, so let me know what you think! I wanted to release version 1.0 as soon as I could, but I will try to refine this mod again soon.

Why did I make this tiny mod? I remember playing Silent Hunter 3 with GWX and I think the damage model of that game just felt right. So far my experience with SH5 has not compared. To be honest, I'm getting tired of 1-shot killing almost everything I hit! I'm hope to recapture the feeling I had playing SH3, and maybe this mod can help.

At the moment, damage values don't look too far of from stock SH5, but they're a big decrease from my previous mod combination (Magnum Opus and UHS, I believe). I'm also using TheDarkWraith's FX Update, so the extra fire damage only makes killing stuff even easier. Those are all such great mods, btw.

So what I've tried to do give each torpedo type different damage characteristics.
In reality all straight run and pattern torps had the same payload, a 614 lb hexanite warhead. Acoustic torps had a slightly smaller payload (just 10 lbs less), to make room for the sensors. You will find this reflected in the mod. There's just a small percent difference (admittedly for flavor) between the T1, TII, and TIII torps. The TIV, TV, TVII, and TXI torps are about 6% less powerful, roughly matching the different warhead size.

Does anyone have any thoughts about how much damage the 88mm shells should do? I've done some really sketchy math that leads me to believe a shell would deliver about 1/200 to 1/36 as much energy as a G7 torpedo, but that would make the SH5 deck gun almost useless! Right now they do about 1/10 as much damage as a torp.

I'd love to get some feedback on my changes. I've run some tests with my values, and I still think the damage my still be a little high. I may decrease them some more in the next version, if necessary.

Enjoy!

[jwilliams]

Awesome :yeah:

I agree that torps are now too powerful with FX_Update.

Downloading now to test.

Thanks. :salute:

[Jaguar]

My very first mod was about more powerfull torpedoes ( Critical hits for torpedos which changed damage to 100-400), since I found very unrealistic the need of 3+ torps for each merchant and 2 for DDs. Now with FX_Update is almost 1 torp 1 ship.

No I´m going to do the opposite and give this mod a try :up:. Will report soon.

EDIT: you may split this mod in two also, one for torpedoes and one for shells.

[Zedi]

My very first mod was about more powerfull torpedoes ( Critical hits for torpedos which changed damage to 100-400), since I found very unrealistic the need of 3+ torps for each merchant and 2 for DDs. Now with FX_Update is almost 1 torp 1 ship.

No I´m going to do the opposite and give this mod a try :up:. Will report soon.

EDIT: you may split this mod in two also, one for torpedoes and one for shells.

Same here.
Actually the perfect combo is this: crit hit + BARF or this mod + FX Update.

[stoianm]

Same here.
Actually the perfect combo is this: crit hit + BARF or this mod + FX Update.
ddrgn made already an update in his UHS for torpedos... i will try this one also... seems interesting

[Rongel]

I haven't tried this yet but the deck gun tone down seems really good to me. Many mods increase the deck gun damage, like UHS 1.7 (which I really like otherwise), and so does the Magnum Opus (UHS is included I guess) not to mention Critical hits 1.2.

I've been using my own little deck gun mod which gives more like stock values (well it gives bit more variation to the damage, but the overall value is the same), it also reduces the auto stabilization (which is not realistic!). And like you said, TDW's FX-mod adds fire damage so little tuning is in place. The deck gun should be just for shooting down unarmed little merchants, but sometimes it seems that you really don't need torpedoes at all.

[Jaguar]

Same here.
Actually the perfect combo is this: crit hit + BARF or this mod + FX Update.
:up: thx for the advice.

[marleymen]

Seems a good WIP here for refine Torpedo damage.

I will test it. And also because is May, 5th
Congratulations for you, Mexican people in the Day of the Mexican Pride.

Send those Coronitas. :rock:

Translation
----------

Me parece un gran trabajo (en proceso) para refinar el daño de los torpedos.

Lo probaré. También porque es 5 de Mayo.
Enhorabuena al pueblo Mexicano por el Dia del Orgullo Mexicano.

Que vengan esas Coronitas.

[stoianm]

Seems a good WIP here for refine Torpedo damage.

I will test it. And also because is May, 5th
Congratulations for you, Mexican people in the Day of the Mexican Pride.

Send those Coronitas. :rock:

Translation
----------

Me parece un gran trabajo (en proceso) para refinar el daño de los torpedos.

Lo probaré. También porque es 5 de Mayo.
Enhorabuena al pueblo Mexicano por el Dia del Orgullo Mexicano.

Que vengan esas Coronitas.
It is not corona?... I drinked a lot when i was in Nuevo Laredo Mexic few years ago... nice place and a good beer... but a bit dangerous:DL

I remembered a funny storry... and i want to ask you if is true or not... i had an mexican friend and i invited to my place long time ago to watch a soccer game... i bought some Corona beers and lemons also... i gived to him ... he asked me: wy you put lemon in Corona?... i replied: wy not?.. i saw that you put lemon when you drink this beer on tv... he said: yes man... because we have muskitos there... no need for lemon here:haha::haha:... it is true or he was made fun of me?

[marleymen]

Mosquitos goes to lemon as flies to .... (have to edit: mosquitos goes to lemon when is a few rotten, but they avoid lemon when is fresh)

Lemon is for better taste of the Corona. It´s the best beer in the world because of it´s very soft at taste. No bitterness. So it´s good to add that point of flavour the lemon gives.

[minispace]

All the margaritas have been drunk, so it's back to the torpedoes.

Fellow sub-simmers, have you ever seen... a dud?[/3dog]

This graphic illustrates a G7a TI's dud-chances, if it hits a target at various angles, using stock SH5's hit tables.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=494&pictureid=4209

So, 1% means that 1 out of a hundred torps will miss, and 100% means that they all should miss. You can see that after august 1943 the hit table becomes a lot more forgiving. Doesn't the game actually end in May of that year?

What I'm going to do is implement brand new hit tables to better simulate torpedo accuracy, or lack thereof.

I wasted the last week at work making this chart of hit-table candidates:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=494&pictureid=4211

Ultimately I decided on using 9 discrete entries for each torpedo type, for each date range. Depending on the torp, and date range, it will use on of these templates:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=494&pictureid=4210

An early-war T1's dud chance might look like the dud spectrum on the lower right, but a late war acoustic torp would look more like the entry on the upper left.
I'll also use modifiers to tweak the hit-chances even more. For instance: An early war TI or TII should never have a 99% chance of hit. I would decrease every hit table entry by about 33% so we can experience the Torpedo Crisis first hand!

Right now I'm going to change the TI's hit table to look like this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=494&pictureid=4212

That's pretty much the same as thethe stock version, just smoothed out. I just tested the new sim file in game and it seems to work (it didn't crash, at least) but more testing is required. I'll be doing that today and I hope to release something this weekend.

I have a questioned for people more experienced than I. What can I screw up if I over-write another mod's torpedoes_g7a-e.sim file? I'm not sure what other date is stored in the file and I'm worried about breaking another mod in the process...

[stoianm]

The same thing that you are working on it... if i am remember well the mods that play with that file is UHS and TDW FIX.... so your mod will be in conflict with these mods... i dunno another mod that is change that .sim file

[jwilliams]

Fellow sub-simmers, have you ever seen... a dud?Yes I have seen a dud.... A circle runner that almost hit me.:o
Luckly I had map contacts on and managed to dive before being hit.

But I have only ever noticed 2 duds, but I play at full realism and most torps that dont hit, I assumed was due to me getting something wrong in my calculations.

The work you are doing here is awesome. As I understand German torps had many problems and the chance of duds in game is too low.

As for breaking mods, I only use two mods that changed the torpedoes_g7a-e.sim file. UHS and FX_Update.

[minispace]

I saw that conflict in JSGME, but I'm not sure what data is being over-written. Could I be messing up FX Update's enhanced damage effects?

I hope I don't have to make a bunch of compatibility patches to get everything to work together!

[minispace]

This is really frustrating. No matter what changes I make to torpedoes_g7a-e.sim file, I am not seeing any changes in torpedo behavior in-game.

I've tried setting the dud chance really high, and really low, and torps still hit almost every time, like in the stock game. I suspect the magnetic fuse might be setting off the torps even with impact hits, but that just a WAG.

Does anyone have any experience editing the dud chances? Someone must have tried this already in the last year, and I'm starting to realize why couldn't find a mod that already covers what I'm trying to do.

In the meantime, I'll try some other things to try to get this to work. Wish me luck!

[ddrgn]

This is really frustrating. No matter what changes I make to torpedoes_g7a-e.sim file, I am not seeing any changes in torpedo behavior in-game.

I've tried setting the dud chance really high, and really low, and torps still hit almost every time, like in the stock game. I suspect the magnetic fuse might be setting off the torps even with impact hits, but that just a WAG.

Does anyone have any experience editing the dud chances? Someone must have tried this already in the last year, and I'm starting to realize why couldn't find a mod that already covers what I'm trying to do.

In the meantime, I'll try some other things to try to get this to work. Wish me luck!

Magnetic pistols do not work at all.... Are you testing with all versions of the torpedoes? And if you look at UHS 1.7, I have edited the torpedo dud settings, but it never had any effect like your seeing......

[Sepp von Ch.]

My "dud torpedo settings" is on, I use UHS 1.7 and I had never a dude torpedo...:-?

I like your mod minispace. Particular the deck gun is very good (realistic) balanced.

[stoianm]

My "dud torpedo settings" is on, I use UHS 1.7 and I had never a dude torpedo...:-?

I like your mod minispace. Particular the deck gun is very good (realistic) balanced.
I am using the ddrgn mod and i had often dud torpedo... i had a dud torpedo in one of my tutorials also... see the video tutorial ''how touse hit and run method in SH5'' - in last part after i fired my torp you will see that the first one was a dud torpedo:yep:... and this was an example caughted by misteake in my movie... situation like these i had manny time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIu9ScYyZKs go to 4:58


Here you can see that the torpedo magnetic are not working at all like ddrgn said... it is a game bug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYrzi0CFnMI go to at 5:32

[Sepp von Ch.]

I am using the ddrgn mod and i had often dud torpedo... i had a dud torpedo in one of my tutorials also... see the video tutorial ''how touse hit and run method in SH5'' - in last part after i fired my torp you will see that the first one was a dud torpedo:yep:... and this was an example caughted by misteake in my movie... situation like these i had manny time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIu9ScYyZKs go to 4:58




OK...then I´m happy captain, because II´ve never seen a dud torpedo in my SH5 campaign-career:D






Here you can see that the torpedo magnetic are not working at all like ddrgn said... it is a game bug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYrzi0CFnMI go to at 5:32


I know this shortly after the release of SH5...:wah:

[TheDarkWraith]

Knowing what I know now about how the damage/collision model works in SH5 we can make something that will resemble magnetic torpedoes 'hitting' an object. I just haven't had time to sit down and make it yet :shifty:

[stoianm]

Knowing what I know now about how the damage/collision model works in SH5 we can make something that will resemble magnetic torpedoes 'hitting' an object. I just haven't had time to sit down and make it yet :shifty:
this will be an very important fix:yep:

[Sepp von Ch.]

I´m not even surprised that you can fix this SH5 bug as well. You are brilliant modder.
I hope, that you will find a little time for fix it!
:up:

[minispace]

Here are the variables available in the torpedoes_g7a-e.sim file, with comments. We're going to look at the Pistols and the Guidance sections of the file.

I. Pistols
A. date range
The All SH5 torps have 2 or fewer date ranges. I would like to create a lot more to simulate Germany's Torpedo Crisis. I shouldn't have any problem creating extra, but I haven't done enough testing to see if it will work.

1. arming distance
According to SH5. the G7a TI has a smaller arming distance later in the war. Is this accurate? Torps would have a minimum arming distance for safety's sake so I'm not why the distance should go down.

2. magnetic [yes/no]
3. magnetic deton range
As indicated upthread, and after some testing of my own, this is probably broken. I saw a lot more premature explosions with a high detonation range, but that was in really shallow water. It makes me wonder if the magnetic influence sensors are facing down instead of up!

4. dud_chance
i. min_angle
ii. max_angle
iii. chance
Is this supposed to be the angle that a torp hits its target? In that case, 90° should mean a perfect hit and 0° an extreme glancing blow. It looks like the chance field should determine the odds of a dud. The problem I'm having is that no matter numbers I put in this section I don't see any change in the game. Almost ever torpedo hits, with maybe 1-2% duds. For now I'm going to consider this broken. If anyone knows how/if this works, please let me know!

5. premature chance
i. min_angle
ii. max_angle
iii. chance
I haven't tested this yet but it seems straightforward. If I can't get the dud_chance stuff to work I'll boost this even more in the early part of the war to compensate.

6. dud reduction speed
7. dud reduction rate
As with the dud_chance stuff, this seems to have no effect.

II. Guidance
A. date range
1. circle runner chance
This seems straightforward. The number should be pretty low at all stages of the war.

2.Gyro Problems
i. max deviation
ii. chance
I had fun testing this out and I can confirm that it works. If I can't simulate actual duds I may boost this to compensate.

3.Depth Keeping Problems
i. min deviation
ii. max deviation
iii. chance
I haven't tried putting in different variables but from observing stock SH5 torps, this looks like it is working as intended.

For the past few days, all I've been doing is going into the editor, changing the values for the T1 torp, and going back into the game to test the results. That and some Mount & Blade when things get too dull :)
In the past week, Kapitänleutnant Hanz Testman has fired so many torpedoes at the ships in Kiel harbor that BdU has got to suspect something is going on.
Please let me know if you think I'm missing something. I've still scratching my head over the dud_chance stuff and really wish I could see it work in game.