No survivors

[Dogfish40]

Since I've been running 1.5, with my mod soup, I've had empty lifeboats after a kill. I'll have one or two life rafts, one big 1 ton lifeboat, always empty. Whats up??
I'm using a bunch of mods as some of you might remember, I'm really trying to detox from using too many but it's hard man,..really hard...
Anyway, I just noticed that, everything's working great, looking great but I have no survivors after the ship goes under, just the life boats.
Any thought's??:hmmm:
Thankx
D40:salute:

[Aviv]

Maybe they jumped out and had a swim?

Just kidding.
Sometimes I notice that in rough weather there's nobody in the boats, I guess it depends on how many times you've noticed it.

[Anthony W.]

What he said ^^ Haha

[Ace_Rimmer]

I hate to say it; but often I machine gun the survivors anyways.

[Stealhead]

I think the number of survivors is random though some mods boost the possible numbers.Other time you will see empty boats/rafts which means that the crew had clearly not drilled enough on escape procedures.:dead:

Or would rather die than be captured.

[Armistead]

Usually when a ship goes under the crews in lifeboats will often vanish with the ship. Not sure what causes it, appears many bodies act like the deckhands that vanish when a ship goes under.

I think the game must use some random setting, cause sometimes you get 30 liferafts, other times a few.

[Thrair]

I think the game must use some random setting, cause sometimes you get 30 liferafts, other times a few.


Aye, it's especially odd when you split a ship in half with a keel shot, and it goes under in seconds, yet you get lots of lifeboats.

Meanwhile that merchant you hit in the engines that takes 20 minutes to finally sink has the whole crew go down with the ship.

[Stealhead]

I have seen the multiple life boats one a few times after I have helped guide a liner onto the correct course directly to Davey Jones locker with torpedoes I guess sometimes he does not want many sailors some days as I have seen 15 full boats and rafts around a liners oil slick before or maybe the sailors where wise and had the IJA troops they no doubt where ferrying to go in their place.:arrgh!:

It must be pretty random because once I gunned down two junks together and there where 5 rafts which seems like a lot.

[Dogfish40]

Maybe they jumped out and had a swim?

Just kidding.
Sometimes I notice that in rough weather there's nobody in the boats, I guess it depends on how many times you've noticed it.



I hate to say it; but often I machine gun the survivors anyways.

I hate to admit that myself, but dang-it, one of 'em was flippin' me the bird.

Usually when a ship goes under the crews in lifeboats will often vanish with the ship. Not sure what causes it, appears many bodies act like the deckhands that vanish when a ship goes under.

I think the game must use some random setting, cause sometimes you get 30 liferafts, other times a few.

Well, It's like I went from seeing Survivors with most of my hits, (even when the ship went down so fast that life boats would have been an impossibility) to nothing at all. My last entire patrol.
I tried taking out a couple mods to see if that works. It's not a show stopper, but I'd like to see some people rowing again.
Arrr...:salute:
D40

[Anthony W.]

I enabled that but I still get a CTD when I load the save file

[WernherVonTrapp]

I've noticed a correlation between empty and manned lifeboats, in most instances anyway, that seems to correspond with the magnitude of the explosion upon torpedo impact. Sometimes though, results do defy any explanation.:hmm2: I have had a couple of ships explode like an atom bomb, but sure enough, here come the survivors in their lifeboats. Go figure.:-?

[Daniel Prates]

In any case, it makes no difference for game purposes, does it? I mean, in real life, there are situations where you would not want to let survivors. Say you've just dropped and agent or spy in enemy territory and all the sudden, a patrol boat spots you. You sink it but a survivor is left in a raft, just to tell on you (and your agent). Makes no sense to leave him as a witness!

The same thing applies when striking to close to the japanese homeland, I guess, since survivors are likely to be rescued quickly and inform of a predator roaming the seaside.

But that would be too god to be true, mmm? I bet the game does not compute this kind of variables.

[Dogfish40]

In any case, it makes no difference for game purposes, does it? I mean, in real life, there are situations where you would not want to let survivors. Say you've just dropped and agent or spy in enemy territory and all the sudden, a patrol boat spots you. You sink it but a survivor is left in a raft, just to tell on you (and your agent). Makes no sense to leave him as a witness!

The same thing applies when striking to close to the japanese homeland, I guess, since survivors are likely to be rescued quickly and inform of a predator roaming the seaside.

But that would be too god to be true, mmm? I bet the game does not compute this kind of variables.

Well, Historically it was up to the Skipper of the boat...Formally, the navy was specific not to outright kill survivors. There were obviously occasions where, as you stated, it might not be prudent to let a survivor live. To be frank, most of the time the Skippers were much more interested in clearing the area and 85% of the time they didn't even get to see the ship sinking much less survivors in the water or on boats. They were being chased under by DD's or planes.
My problem though still stands. I just sunk a ship with the deck gun (because of heavy fog, I could not get bearings on the ship at all but I could make out the masts with the deck gun) giving the crew ample time to get off the ship. One life-raft, no-one in it.
I'm going to have to go back to square one and rip out all the mods and put them back in,...perhaps I'll do it on a practice chapter. Anyway, when I find the culprit I'll sing!
Good Hunting.
D40:salute:

[Daniel Prates]

Still, it would be cool if the game computed survivors as a source of information for escorts. According to TMO's manual, I know that all the enemies in the game (ships, planes, bunkers) talk between each other via radio. If an escort is nearby, it will pick up the chase. Would be interesting if survivors had the same effect.

In any case, the indiscriminate shooting of drifters at sea is a war crime.

[andy_311]

I have seen in FORTS in calm seas be it a merchant,or a bb or even a very large liner tou will have survivors in life rafts,however if you hit a ship that is close to a life raft she will go down as well whicj i could understand a liferaft does not give you no protection,in rough waters i assume if you see a life raft and noboby is in it,I assume they drowned,or got killed by the explosion of the ship near by.But I dont know if this is Hard coded or something the modders done to make it relistic!

[Stargazer]

I'm still out on only my second patrol and tonight will be only the third time I've launched SH4...

However, I have seen an instance of a lifeboat being deployed and a few people in it trying to get away from a their burning wreck. It looked as though they caught by a large(ish) wave and then all of a sudden the boat was still there but the people were not.

It might have been a coincidence with the wave getting the lifeboat, they were still worryingly close to a burning ship at the time but something made them all vanish.

As I'm still out on patrol I've not had a chance to apply any mods at all so it was definitely there in some degree right from stock.

[Platapus]

In any case, it makes no difference for game purposes, does it? I mean, in real life, there are situations where you would not want to let survivors. Say you've just dropped and agent or spy in enemy territory and all the sudden, a patrol boat spots you. You sink it but a survivor is left in a raft, just to tell on you (and your agent). Makes no sense to leave him as a witness!

The same thing applies when striking to close to the japanese homeland, I guess, since survivors are likely to be rescued quickly and inform of a predator roaming the seaside.

But that would be too god to be true, mmm? I bet the game does not compute this kind of variables.


You need to read Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep. :yep: It deals with that question.

[Daniel Prates]

Thanks platapus. I'll be sure to check it out. RIght now I'm discovering the wonders of TMO so i'll stick to that for a while.

About those empty rafts... maybe they're not empty, maybe they are UPSIDE DOWN! I notice that happening a lot when I insert an agent. I bring the sub to a full stop, get as close as possible to calm waters, but still, frequently the raft will appear as the little guy being UNDER the raft, roaming and everything.

From a distance it seems that it is empty, but from a closer distance, it is clearer what is going on.

Maybe it's a graphic bug in the game. So far I've seen no capsised ships whatsoever and there is no reason to beleive that game graphics compute capsising as an event possible to happen.

[Dogfish40]

Thanks platapus. I'll be sure to check it out. RIght now I'm discovering the wonders of TMO so i'll stick to that for a while.

About those empty rafts... maybe they're not empty, maybe they are UPSIDE DOWN! I notice that happening a lot when I insert an agent. I bring the sub to a full stop, get as close as possible to calm waters, but still, frequently the raft will appear as the little guy being UNDER the raft, roaming and everything.

From a distance it seems that it is empty, but from a closer distance, it is clearer what is going on.

Maybe it's a graphic bug in the game. So far I've seen no capsised ships whatsoever and there is no reason to beleive that game graphics compute capsising as an event possible to happen.

No, I checked. By the way, I might need to mention if I haven't already that I used to have survivors just about all the time, even fast sinkers. And if there were none there was usually no life boats at all. That's why I'm so puzzled, because I miss seeing the people in the boats. I'll keep on this till I get it fixed 'cause I think it's one of those little details that add realism to the game.
Good weekend and Good Hunting All!
D40:salute:

[Daniel Prates]

Ok, here's another possibily. It's another conclusion I extract from botched agent insertions.

What happens when you release an insertion raft before a full stop? The raft collides with your own submarine and gets destroyed, right? How it appears then? Like an empty raft! It does not sink or disappear. It is clear though that it has been destroyed, and I remember that in stock SH it even appears as a destroyed ship on the map.

Possibly the empty survirors raft appear like that - empty- because they, soon after being spawned by the ship's destruction, imediately collide agains the sinking carcass of their own ship and get destroyed in the process.

[Aviv]

Possibly the empty survirors raft appear like that - empty- because they, soon after being spawned by the ship's destruction, imediately collide agains the sinking carcass of their own ship and get destroyed in the process.

Wow. I never thought about that. I think this is the best theory about it. But what about when they appear (sometimes not near the ship) in stormy weather? Does stormy weather destroy agent insertions too?

[Daniel Prates]

Who knows. Though close to perfect, the SH franchise is very buggy and some things are unexplainable, it seems.

[Daniel Prates]

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFs91160njI

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

[Aviv]

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFs91160njI

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

Wow. From some of the shot angles they seem like stock footage, and it seems edited strangely too. The only consistent one seems to be where the sailor fires the M1928 Thompson. Besides that, you can see to the right of the Japanese you can see a guy with a M1911. Maybe it's taken away from context, and the Japanese was trying to throw his grenade into the submarine. In that situation, you have to shoot the guy. You can't let him risk your whole crew just to say "we can't kill him he's just a shipwrecked guy". But also at those distance (seems like less than 50M) it would be easy to kill him. Very interesting video, though. I guess that happened a lot in the Pacific.

[Dogfish40]

Video is bogus. This is one more piece of U-tube garbage that was floating around to turn public opinion against the U.S military in general. It doesn't even look the same from cut to cut, the sun is all wrong, the film looks differant from cut to cut. There must be at least three differant days here. It's obviously edited (and badly) and usually banned from this site.
I'm sorry this had to appear on this thread...
D40

[Stealhead]

It is bull---- someone just took some videos from some submariners pooping(er popping but that is so funny I will leave it) some rounds off for practice/fun and then took the clip of a Japanese pilot from a completely different clip to make it look like they shot him.The pilot who blows himself up with the hand grenade that was clearly filmed from a larger vessel than a sub.Someplace I have seen the true footage they where trying to save the guy and when they that he had the grenade they started to fire on him but there intent was to help the pilot he forced their hand.Someplace there is footage of the sub guys with the Tommy and BAR in the true footage they a killing only water.

The truth is that many subs (US Navy) actually would take POWs if they found Japanese willing to be picked(of course with great caution) you could gather a lot of good intel from these people.It was also common to find refugees on the water trying to get away form Japanese occupied areas he there is a picture out there of the Wahoo aiding one of these boats.The idea that US Navy subs went around killing Japanese in the water is simply not true for the most part.

Sorry it just really pisses me off this kind of thing granted in wars men on all sides do bad things but it is never our policy unlike the then Japanese military who killed and raped thousands of Chinese and brutally treated their POWs so and so forth.

I bought a book from a former US Army solider about his time in the Batan Death March and being a POW called "Hells Guest" that was selling his book at the USS Alabama park in Mobile a few years back While they where being marched along a Filipino woman who was pregnant came up to give an American water for this a Japanese solider killed the American and cut the woman stomach open and the baby inside they then told the little girl to walk away when she did they shot her in the back but everyone ignores the clearly documented horrors that the Japanese military did by and large as standard operating procedure.I am not saying that all WWII era Japanese people and even soldiers where bad but such things where not frowned upon in the slightest.

Japanese are officially taught a complete lie about WWII and learn nothing about what their government did to the Chinese,Koreans and other Asian people they also learn nothing about how they treated POWs they learn a lie in their favor that make the US look bad.I know this because one of my friends his wife is an Okinawan Japanese she is a truly a Ryukian but they go to Japanese schools and are Japaneses citizens they don't really trust mainland Japanese and that goes way back to ancient times.In the end the Japanese reaped what they had sown in the 20's,30's,and 40's at the end of the war.

[Thrair]

No nation likes to admit they were absolute slime. So they sugar-coat history textbooks to the point of being useless bull****.

We do it, Germany does it, Japan does it, everyone does it. It's easier to hide from the past than face it.

However, most countries at least acknowledge that the events HAPPENED, even if they don't teach much about it to their kids.

Japan, however, has never admitted to the crimes, and repeatedly denies everything. :nope:

[Stealhead]

Japan does it to the extreme in the US and Germany you can find more easily info on our not so pretty past like the Nazi Concentration camps and the US almost complete genocide of Native Americans back in the old day.

I saw some place that some Japanese do seek to make the truth more well known but they meet much resistance for example a group protested about a Shinto temple that had shrines honoring some pretty nasty officers from WWII they got threats for speaking out.

The "official" history being sugar coated is par for the course in most nations but at least in many nations you can easily find more accurate accounts. I think the US gets a bad rap for using the atomic bombs honestly when the simple fact is that during the war any nation would have used the weapon if they developed it first and the Japanese did have a program studying making bombs as well.And though very ----ty for the people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki(though a July fire bombing of Tokyo killed at least 120,000 Japanese and rendered many more homeless in one night of B-29 raids which is not too far behind both A-bombs death tolls combined such things did not happen to the US simply because we where not within range of attack not because the enemy lacked the desire to do so) at the time those bombs ended the war when the other option would have been invasion which would have cost millions of lives for Japan the US(the Us expected to suffer 1 million dead just for Cornet which was the invasion of Kyushu one can only guess the loses for Japan which would have included many indoctrinated) and likely the USSR as well not to mention extending the war into 1946/47 and likely giving the Soviets half of Japan and making the West weaker against the USSR post war.Not to get too off topic with that can of worms but if anyone else is game I'm cool.

By the way when I was about 12 years old my mother made me read "Hiroshima" by John Hersey and it certainly had an effect on me to say the least.

[Aviv]

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.

[Torplexed]

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFs91160njI

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

I'd take any youtube clip promoting shocking unseen historical footage with a dose of salt. That's not to say there aren't legitimate historical youtube clips, but there are a lot of nutters out there with a personal agenda on all points of the political map.

I believe Mush Morton was involved in one very serious incident of gunning down shipwrecked men in small boats, believing them Japanese troops bound for New Guinea. In sad fact, they were mainly Indian POWs of 2nd Battalion, 16th Punjab Regiment, plus escorting forces from the 26th Field Ordnance Depot. I don't think anyone filmed it though.

[Stealhead]

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.

Well it depends on the situation some things you are speaking of where not intended by military high command and where mistakes and others others where purposeful there is a huge difference(not referring to the rocket attacks).I know for a fact that the Mai Lai commanding officer (don't recall his name) was court marshaled and found to be guilty but received pardon later I think from Ford.

And in some cases like General Yama----a "The Tiger of Malay"(http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Tiger+of+Malay&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a go to the wiki page cant direct link thanks to ---- being removed even when it not ----:D ) he was tried and found guilty of POW treatment in the Philippines even though he took over that command in 1944 and did not set the standard of treatment that the previous commanders set he did not really change anything he and nothing to do with the Bataan Death March in 1942 but was found guilty because even though he did not directly promote bad treatment he did not do anything to stop it either though that was the view of his high command so it is not like they'd have listened to him had wanted to improve things for POWs some of his troops killed Brit POWs in Malaya in 1942 but he may not have even been aware of it.

You aren't going to find very many truly balanced media sources I think that people should be better educated to evaluate different sources to have a more balanced view of things they get form media.

I do agree with you opinion but I disagree that mistakes and actions the US have done are not known about I know about the wedding you speak of and other mistaken attacks on people that have occurred in Afghanistan.Also many Americans know about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.The US and Israel are the same boat when it comes to our military actions and medias view on them in many cases.

[Daniel Prates]

Yep, war is war. I don't think there is one single country that can bragg about having a 100% licit conduct during conflict.

Fellas, please do not misunderstand me. I only posted the video link to check out your inputs, meaning not to start some controversy.

Personally I think it's bogus too, how come the sailos use 4 different kinds of automatics on the drifter?

In the 1860s, in what today is known as the 'paraguay war', brasilian troops droped dead bodies into the rivers that supplied assunción with water, in order to poison the entire city's population. Crude, eh? You should imagine that mankind would evolve in 150 years but the war in Yugoslavia was not any better - and that was less than 20 years ago, so it makes you wonder...

[Stealhead]

Makes me think of the scene in Dr.Stangelove when they start to fight and the President yells at them for fighting in the war room.It does seem odd to place rules on something as immoral as killing another person which it what warfare is legalized murder in the name of a state no matter if you follow the "laws" of war or are completely brutal. I know that my dad loved to hunt when he was a kid he never hunted again after serving in Vietnam he told me he felt no need to kill another living thing for sport after seeing so many Americans killed by Vietnamese and vice verse.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.Wow, where do you get your information from Aviv? Sounds like you're reading the wrong newspapers.

At least 900 Japanese were executed for war crimes and thousands spent varying amounts of time in prison. That sounds like a lot more than "very few" to me. War is Hell indeed, and people die for a myriad of reasons during one. Yes, I believe that things have been and will continue to be misrepresented by the various News Media, but not because of collusion or conspiracies, as you make it sound.
If you want to find out about such things, do some research. You might find that you've missed a lot of the News that has been reported, as opposed to the News not being reported.;):up:

[Daniel Prates]

At least 900 Japanese were executed for war crimes and thousands spent varying amounts of time in prison.

A movie sugestion: "merry christmas mr. lawrence", also called "furyo" in some countries (europe for instance). It's on this subjetc, and it has a very interesting psicological underline.

It's with David Bowie, so what the hell? Watch it!

[Dogfish40]

There is so much I could say on this subject it would read like a book. I'll just agree with Wernher here and say that the US military unlike a lot of other countries have brought not only war to other countries but help, humanitarian aid, and order. Videos such as these just propagate hate and twist history. The silent service had rules of engagement even with the order laid down after Pearl Harbor and no sub crew in the navy would have kept silent about the killing of survivors in the water. Subs did indeed pick up prisoners from time to time, they did not fire upon people in the water unless there was an attack or attempted attack on the boat or it's crew period!:salute:
D40

[WernherVonTrapp]

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFs91160njI

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.It just so happens that, not only have I seen this video, and once almost believed it, I have since accumulated quite a collection of WWII Documentaries on DVD. I have, in it's entirety, the actual footage of that Japanese sailor blowing himself up with a hand grenade. I also have some of the other sections of that footage in it's entirety. In the actual footage, no U.S. sailor is shooting at, or attempting to shoot at him. They were trying earnestly to rescue him. He just blew himself up in the long standing (well documented), time honored, tradition of the Japanese soldier/sailor whose sacred belief would be to die, rather than be taken prisoner.

That YouTube video is a heavily doctored video, spliced and pieced together in order to deceive. The saddest part of all is that (as we've seen) there are those who will automatically believe such rubbish (probably due to a predisposition) simply because some unknown entity/factor posted it on the web. IMO, it just goes to show one of the susceptibilities that can occur when History is forgotten. Then, we just believe what anyone tells us because we don't know (the truth) otherwise.:nope:

[Daniel Prates]

Quite right.

[Stealhead]

[/QUOTE]I believe Mush Morton was involved in one very serious incident of gunning down shipwrecked men in small boats, believing them Japanese troops bound for New Guinea. In sad fact, they were mainly Indian POWs of 2nd Battalion, 16th Punjab Regiment, plus escorting forces from the 26th Field Ordnance Depot. I don't think anyone filmed it though.[/QUOTE]


There is much argument about what really happened in this "incident" so no one can honestly say what Mortons intent was or what happened(there are several different versions) O'Kane says that they only fired on the boats and any person that fired on the Wahoo also it was a Japanses claim that Indian POWs where on the boat so take that with a grain of salt.

Personally I do not trust Wikipedia as a definitive source anyone can place anything they want on an article there and unless someone who truly knows has it changed it will be there.

[TheAbyss]

No survivors! Damn right.

Gun 'em, then gun 'em again till you're sure they're burley for the sharks.

It's more humane anyway for most of the ships I've sunk (middle of relatively nowhere, a salvo of fish on one side; no chance of getting a signal out).

[Daniel Prates]

No survivors! Damn right.

Gun 'em, then gun 'em again till you're sure they're burley for the sharks.

It's more humane anyway for most of the ships I've sunk (middle of relatively nowhere, a salvo of fish on one side; no chance of getting a signal out).

Nasty! :o

[Dogfish40]

Well, Wonders of wonders. The dang survivors are back. I ran into a med tanker (unescorted, whoopie!!) last night and the tanker ran into a slight buoyancy problem because of an unrequested munitions surplus. Well, after the ship had disappeared we surfaced and lo and behold, through my binocs I viewed a lifeboat with survivors.
I really haven't taken away any of the Mods, however, since I was experimenting with them, the order of the mods has changed, so this could be the fix that was needed. I did swap one of the speech mods for another as I was getting a doubling effect and figured that the MOD was playing the sound twice. Well, now all seems to be well.
Now I can mess with it some more and screw it up again!
Thanks everyone and Good Hunting.
D40:salute:

[raoul01]

you know what weart is if you destroy a lifecraft it does'nt sink and every body survive it.

[Solidsnake2234]

I hate to say it; but often I machine gun the survivors anyways.

I like your style :D Though in WWII, some sub captains would order the crew to shoot at the survivors.

[Daniel Prates]

I like your style :D Though in WWII, some sub captains would order the crew to shoot at the survivors.

Oooooowww... bad topic.

I'll be diving away to stear clear from this controversy being raised here yet again.... :ping:

[Sailor Steve]

The only thing I would ask is that rather than "Some captains...", specifics are given for each and every incident, with references. Otherwise it's just hearsay.

[razark]

Is it time for another "Mush Morton was a war criminal" thread?

:dead:

[Dogfish40]

For one thing, When this thread started, it had nothing to do with gunning survivors in life rafts. I just had empty lifeboats all the time and wondered why.
I'll say it again; As angry as the U.S sailors were at the IJN for Pearl, The U.S did not make a habit out of gunning down survivors in the water. On the contrary, there are dozens of instances on film and in the records of U.S submariners taking IJN prisoners out of the water!
This was something that was born from an old Navy custom for years and most navies of the world acted as civil as they could towards survivors in life rafts or in the water.
Most Submarines simply could not take in large amounts of survivors and so they were left to their fate. That is about as close to the truth as is possible in my humble estimation. Did "survivors" get shot in cold blood? Probably, on occasion.
Which Navy??
I'm very proud of the United States conduct and performance in WW2.
So, I hope we can close this thread with the fact that, Yeah,"War is Hell" and I've got my Survivors back in the Lifeboats !!! :O:
Cheers and Good Hunting
D40 :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

I've got my Survivors back in the Lifeboats !!! :O:
WOOHOO! :rock:

[TorpexXIII]

I hate to say it; but often I machine gun the survivors anyways.


Bit harsh...

[Arlo]

Bit harsh...

I agree. Pixels are human too.

[USS Drum]

I hate to say it but I sometimes machine gun the rafts if I'm angry at the japanese such as failed convoy attack etc. But I get credit for the life raft kill and the crew keeps on rowing.