Big Brother IS watching you

[MaddogK]

Found 2 interesting stories with serious implications if you can connect them.

#1
iPhone keeps record of everywhere you go
Privacy fears raised as researchers reveal file on iPhone that stores location coordinates and timestamps of owner's movements

Security researchers have discovered that Apple's iPhone keeps track of where you go – and saves every detail of it to a secret file on the device which is then copied to the owner's computer when the two are synchronised.

The file contains the latitude and longitude of the phone's recorded coordinates along with a timestamp, meaning that anyone who stole the phone or the computer could discover details about the owner's movements using a simple program.

For some phones, there could be almost a year's worth of data stored, as the recording of data seems to have started with Apple's iOS 4 update to the phone's operating system, released in June 2010.

"Apple has made it possible for almost anybody – a jealous spouse, a private detective – with access to your phone or computer to get detailed information about where you've been," said Pete Warden, one of the researchers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-prompts-privacy-fears

#2
ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data

The Michigan State Police have started using handheld machines called "extraction devices" to download personal information from motorists they pull over, even if they're not suspected of any crime. Naturally, the ACLU has a problem with this.

The devices, sold by a company called Cellebrite, can download text messages, photos, video, and even GPS data from most brands of cell phones. The handheld machines have various interfaces to work with different models and can even bypass security passwords and access some information.

The problem as the ACLU sees it, is that accessing a citizen's private phone information when there's no probable cause creates a violation of the Constitution's 4th Amendment, which protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures... http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20055431-1.html

:ping:

[the_tyrant]

Big brother was, is and will always be watching you
I am proud of what I do and I don't care if the whole world is watching


of course, the "japanese romantic action" films are still encrypted with the best encryption on earth:D

[Ducimus]

Mental note to self:
If I ever go on the lam for whatever reason, destroy and deep six the mobile tracking device in my front pocket. :O:

[Feuer Frei!]

Always has, always will.

[gimpy117]

Ive been pulled over in MI and not once have I been asked to submit my phone for this kind of process. I would never allow them to anyways. It's in clear violation of my rights if true. I'll keep my eye on this.

[MaddogK]

Ive been pulled over in MI and not once have I been asked to submit my phone for this kind of process. I would never allow them to anyways. It's in clear violation of my rights if true.

You actually don't have a choice, police can search your vehicle without a warrant under the law. If you refuse to let them download your phone data you may have something to hide, which could give them probable cause to search your person.

:up:

http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_.../4-mar10.shtml (http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_questions/4-mar10.shtml)

http://criminal.lawyers.com/traffic-...-Seizures.html (http://criminal.lawyers.com/traffic-violations/Unlawful-Vehicle-Searches-and-Seizures.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_exception

[GoldenRivet]

You know...

people lived all this time without cell phones.

My wife recently got me one of these beauties (http://i.ebayimg.com/03/%21CB4cV5g%212k%7E$%28KGrHqR,%21lgEz+58bTv2BNJT%21 mS08%21%7E%7E_3.JPG). the more i think about it the more i consider it to be all the phone i need.

furthermore... i have the detailed link to facebook deletion directions. (there is a huge difference between disabling your facebook account and deleting it by the way).

the process is about 14 steps long - it is ridiculously difficult to have facebook delete your information and account.

i think some time soon i will be downgrading my cell phone to something a lot simpler - or to nothing. and i will be getting rid of my facebook too

[Feuer Frei!]

This, back in 2009:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/business/global/15privacy.html

“European privacy rules are crystal clear: a person’s information can only be used with their prior consent,”Think that would still be current in the EU.


In relation to the iPhones, There are app store apps that have been sending data with UID and personal info to their own servers for no purpose except tracking.
There are many tools, free or otherwise to allow you to turn off app tracking to all 4 trackers.
Ever since iOS 4 arrived, your device has been storing a long list of locations and time stamps.
It’s clearly intentional, as the database is being restored across backups, and even device migrations.
There are obviously security issues here—especially since the data is unencrypted and unprotected.
Cell-phone providers collect similar data almost inevitably as part of their operations, but it’s kept behind their firewall. It normally requires a court order to gain access to it, whereas this is available to anyone who can get their hands on your phone or computer.
By passively logging your location without your permission, Apple have made it possible for anyone from a jealous spouse to a private investigator to get a detailed picture of your movements.
In some ways, Apple and Google are the same :nope::down:

[Castout]

I don't mind being watched by the almighty God as God is without sin and blemish and the creator of all things.

However if big brother is watching who's going to watch the big brother.

Worse in country like Singapore they use psychic spying to intrude people's mind and heart. They fool to think themselves like God while they have regressed lower than animal.

This picture should remind us, whether you understand it or otherwise, accept it or otherwise, aware of this or otherwise, that God is ALWAYS, ALWAYS watching. To get to God men should polish themselves in mind and heart but specifically the heart, the true temple of God. Regressing into lower being would only bring demise to all including themselves.
http://joshcamire.com/testsite/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/all-seeing-eye-pyramid.jpg

So **** big brother. Most of their employees are probably rough people anyway. People with questionable character and moral principle. People who ultimately responsible for the demise of USA. Thanks to their stupidity and lack of vision.

[gimpy117]

You actually don't have a choice, police can search your vehicle without a warrant under the law. If you refuse to let them download your phone data you may have something to hide, which could give them probable cause to search your person.


As far as i know, if it's not locked they can look. phone data is private messages though

[joea]

You know...

people lived all this time without cell phones.



...and without the internet or computer games either. If you honestly think you can't be tracked by a simple cell phone well you are wrong. No excuse for this however and Apple or any other company should be called out and forced to disable or otherwise protect such data. I still think the positives of smarthphones outweight the negatives-if I didn't I'd trash my sim card and use my iphone as an ipod touch. :D


I am not too worried, as I usually just go from work to home with the occasional stop to buy drugs...




It's hayfever season and I need to get a puffer for my asthma and antihistamines from the drug store.

Seriously Facebook is the worst offender-and the worst is people voluntarily give out ALL their info. I have a FB account but use some precautions - I have found a lot of old friends with it I might have not otherwise.

Here are some links on deleting your account permanently.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5186689_permanently-delete-facebook-account.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Permanently-Delete-a-Facebook-Account

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16929680703

:yeah:

[Skybird]

“European privacy rules are crystal clear: a person’s information can only be used with their prior consent,”

Written words on paper are one thing. What really gets done, is something very different. And when an offender does not need to fear to get caught, it really becomes hopeless very quickly.

I think we should have a scheme to follow, that is to only have laws whose strict enforcement we can guarantee. That way it would be easy to see where our communal deficits with law and order, crime and violation of mandatory rules are. It would also dramatically cut the biblical flood of laws and rules and regulations thatour bureauicratic societies are plagued by - and the many special cases and exceptions from these rules.

Rules are useless, if you do not control and enforce obedience to them - at least to a degree that is such that it discourages any wannabe-offender. Any offender, private person or state or corporation, must base on the assumnption that he will get caught and will be sanctioned. The costs of offence must in general deny any benefits one could expect to gain in case of intentionally violating rules.

[Skybird]

“European privacy rules are crystal clear: a person’s information can only be used with their prior consent,”

Written words on paper are one thing. What really gets done, is something very different. And when an offender does not need to fear to get caught, it really becomes hopeless very quickly.

I think we should have a scheme to follow, that is to only have laws whose strict enforcement we can guarantee. That way it would be easy to see where our communal deficits with law and order, crime and violation of mandatory rules are. It would also dramatically cut the biblical flood of laws and rules and regulations thatour bureauicratic societies are plagued by - and the many special cases and exceptions from these rules.

Rules are useless, if you do not control and enforce obedience to them - at least to a degree that is such that it discourages any wannabe-offender. Any offender, private person or state or corporation, must base on the assumnption that he will get caught and will be sanctioned. The costs of offence must in general deny any benefits one could expect to gain in case of intentionally violating rules. In other words, they must be a really hurting, painful stimulus that goes beyond the profit gained before from the violation. Too often, this is not the case, lading to business violating laws and rules becaseu they expected penalties are already calculated - and makes the offence profitable because there is still some profit left.

Difficult to acchieve within states today, I think, if not even impossible, for various reasons. However.

Too much bureaucracy. Too many regulations and expections from them. Too many ways to hide in the system, to cheat it and get away with it. The digitalisation of the world does not make it any easier.

[Torplexed]

So, who is more powerful? This Big Brother bloke, or Ceiling Cat?

http://images9.cpcache.com/product/memes-lolcats-lolcat/346235179v3_225x225_Front.jpg

[Feuer Frei!]

So, who is more powerful? This Big Brother bloke, or Ceiling Cat?

YOU FORGOT:

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/3/31/128830155309459420.jpg

BY THE WAY, I HAVE NEWS FOR ALL OF YOU:

http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/big%20brother%2002.jpg

:O:

[Tribesman]

Think that would still be current in the EU.


Still current.

Written words on paper are one thing. What really gets done, is something very different.
Still preaching bullexcrement.However it maybe written words on secret paper in invisible ink in which case we should be very worried.

I think we should have a scheme to follow, that is to only have laws whose strict enforcement we can guarantee.
Its easy to guarantee, it just needs more people to make sure the laws are stricly enforced
So more enforcement from the EU which is the exact opposite of what he normally calls for:doh:Newspeak eh

The costs of offence must in general deny any benefits one could expect to gain in case of intentionally violating rules. In other words, they must be a really hurting, painful stimulus that goes beyond the profit gained before from the violation.
Really tough laws eh, thats what is needed.

The reality is that all that is needed is for the public to actually care.
All the legislation is there, the enforcemnet ability is already there. If people simply cannot be arsed to exercise their rights then that is their problem.
If someone has some data on you, a CCTV recording of you walking past a shop perhaps then just write and ask them for the information, the cost of them complying or not complying with the law are fully sufficient to make them mend their ways in view to any violations they may contemplate.

So to summarise the problem isn't the companies or the politicians or judiciary...its simply the lazy people who are at fault.

[Herr-Berbunch]

It's in Apple's 15,000 word T&Cs, who does anything other than glance over the first visible section?

A corporate lawyer maybe, and then they'd bill somebody for reading it! :doh:

[Tribesman]

It's in Apple's 15,000 word T&Cs, who does anything other than glance over the first visible section?


If you don't like terms and conditions then don't agree to them.
If you agree to terms and conditions without reading them then that makes you a mug.
If someone is a mug by their own choice then they shouldn't moan about being taken as a mug as it was their choice.

[AVGWarhawk]

:har:

[joea]

Ok I would like mroe transparency but you guys know all cell phones need to be "found" to use the nearest attenna right? Smarthphones with built-in GPS and maps like the iPhones or Androids also do the same thing. I enabled "Find my iPhone" so I could remotely lock and wipe my phone in case it is lost or stolen-maybe even like find it if I left it somwhere. I read on another forum this data might be used to track wifi hotspots and cell masts to save power by noting their locations to save search time.

[Castout]

The file is not encrypted meaning anyone who have access to them can read them.

[Herr-Berbunch]

If you don't like terms and conditions then don't agree to them.
If you agree to terms and conditions without reading them then that makes you a mug.
If someone is a mug by their own choice then they shouldn't moan about being taken as a mug as it was their choice.


I don't have or want an iPhone.

But a lot of people do have Android, me included, and the use of many of the apps on both includes locating your location. And for years a mobile company / police can triangulate your position so I don't see the fuss - have these worried iPhone users got something to hide? :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

have these worried iPhone users got something to hide?


Exactly! I can not tell you how may times I stop and smile for the security cameras. I'm sure I make the security guys day with some of my dumb looks into the camera. :D There is nothing on my phone but pics of family and some phone numbers. Not to incriminating.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Yeah, pics and numbers are ok, but where have you been? WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

To the grocery store, why, what business do you have there?

To your home, how dare you?

Just for a drive, how can you afford the fuel?

:o

[Castout]

It's not about hiding something at all. If you don't understand the point why not leave a message on your front door stating where you are going and have been the whole day with the timing.

Or why bother with walls in your home? Why not put all glass walls?


If a person doesn't know what he signed up to or misunderstood the terms he should not be blamed.

Realistically speaking who would read the terms of anything unless it's about you personally and a legal contract? Some with a lot extra time may but I'd think only law practitioner read them.

[AVGWarhawk]

If you don't understand the point why not leave a message on your front door stating where you are going and have been the whole day with the timing.




People do that on Facebook..no need for a message left on the door! :03: Really, it is no big deal that someone can find my every move if my phone is hanging off my droopy pants. Got nothing to hide and not going to some place I should not be. I have the EVO with Android. I shut the GPS down. Heck...why am I in this thread anyway. :hmmm:

[MaddogK]

Ok I would like mroe transparency but you guys know all cell phones need to be "found" to use the nearest attenna right? Smarthphones with built-in GPS and maps like the iPhones or Androids also do the same thing. I enabled "Find my iPhone" so I could remotely lock and wipe my phone in case it is lost or stolen-maybe even like find it if I left it somwhere. I read on another forum this data might be used to track wifi hotspots and cell masts to save power by noting their locations to save search time.

Are you sure "wipe my phone" will delete that tracking file ?

Lets say you lose your phone and you remotely wipe it. The person who finds it may be pretty tech savvy and he docks it with his home PC. If the wipe feature didn't delete that file this guy now has tracking data (with time stamps) showing that you goto work at 8:30 every day, where you live, where you work, where you stop at 7:30am 5 days a week (when you drop your kids off at school).

This person shares the file with one of his buddies who likes to rob houses.

I know this scenario is far-fetched but it's far from impossible. If you're not alarmed by the possibility of this happening to you then please continue your happy journey in life.

[VipertheSniper]

“European privacy rules are crystal clear: a person’s information can only be used with their prior consent,”

I wonder how they want to access the data that will be recorded, when the data retention is implemented...

The proposed law in Austria would definitely violate that rule.

[Armistead]

I can track my wife with her GPS on my PC when she travels. Course she is aware, nothing we hide, just so I know where she's at on the road.

Our PC's, phones, etc are nothing but boxes that give out info about us. Probably everything we do is looked at by someone, but who cares.
The fact is the most important info about your life is public record that can be seen or bought by anyone. I doubt many care that you watch porn at 3AM on your PC or spent 5 hours telling your life story to everyone on Facebook.

Sure, if I ever break something wrong, I'll tie my cell to a strange dog and run the other way.

The only time I'll have a problem is when they want to install a chip inside me of some sort.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sure, if I ever break something wrong, I'll tie my cell to a strange dog and run the other way.




:har:

[Penguin]

“European privacy rules are crystal clear: a person’s information can only be used with their prior consent,”

Think that would still be current in the EU.

The privacy rights are only enforceable against private companies and citizens, against the state your rights are limited. One ugly example is the date retention directive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention#European_Union
Here is a rather interesting read about the Directive 2006/24/EC from a juristic pov: http://ejlt.org//article/view/29/75
The Data Retention Directive clearly constitutes an interference with the fundamental rights to privacy and data protection.

"Well, my European friends, why don't you elect others then, who make sensible laws?" you may ask. There is a tiny problem with the election of the EU legislature: there is none, only for the parliament...:nope:

[gimpy117]

Sure, if I ever break something wrong, I'll tie my cell to a strange dog and run the other way.



I don't wanan rain on your parade...if you leave it on the I phone has a GPS tracking feature. they'll find it. Best option, Sledgehammer

[joea]

Are you sure "wipe my phone" will delete that tracking file ?

Lets say you lose your phone and you remotely wipe it. The person who finds it may be pretty tech savvy and he docks it with his home PC. If the wipe feature didn't delete that file this guy now has tracking data (with time stamps) showing that you goto work at 8:30 every day, where you live, where you work, where you stop at 7:30am 5 days a week (when you drop your kids off at school).

This person shares the file with one of his buddies who likes to rob houses.

I know this scenario is far-fetched but it's far from impossible. If you're not alarmed by the possibility of this happening to you then please continue your happy journey in life.
I never said I was not alarmed so please stop with the patronising comments. All I meant was that android and blackberry owners as well as "dumbphone" owners could be tracked and that there are many other ways to find out your personal info. Once this leak is plugged another will be found. What do you suggest?

[joea]

I don't have or want an iPhone.

But a lot of people do have Android, me included, and the use of many of the apps on both includes locating your location. And for years a mobile company / police can triangulate your position so I don't see the fuss - have these worried iPhone users got something to hide? :hmmm:

No I got nothing to hide, and would say the same if I had an android - do you? :stare: :D

[MaddogK]

I never said I was not alarmed so please stop with the patronising comments. All I meant was that android and blackberry owners as well as "dumbphone" owners could be tracked and that there are many other ways to find out your personal info. Once this leak is plugged another will be found. What do you suggest?

Wasn't intending to come off as patronizing, sorry if you misunderstood.
Yes, I understand that all cell phones can be tracked, but that used to require a court order to access the providers records to generate the position of the phone. Now it's generated by the phone itself, and in the case of the Iphone stored unencrypted on the phone, copies itself to a PC when it's docked, copies itself to a different phone when the phone is upgraded. No, you cannot turn off the feature on the Iphone.

The point was never about the Gov't knowing everything about your movements, the point was about Apple gathering the info without your knowledge, not protecting the info, and hiding the release in the EULA giving them permission to use the gathered info any way they see fit.

Apparently other smartphones do this as well:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703983704576277101723453610.html

[FIREWALL]

Big Brother is watching me. And I sure as hell have, and will continue watching Him. :yep:

[Armistead]

I don't wanan rain on your parade...if you leave it on the I phone has a GPS tracking feature. they'll find it. Best option, Sledgehammer

They shouldn't find anything but the dog. If my phone is on a dog in one state and I'm in another and they can still track me, ****, I'll just shoot myself and deny them...

[Wolfehunter]

"Well, my European friends, why don't you elect others then, who make sensible laws?" you may ask. There is a tiny problem with the election of the EU legislature: there is none, only for the parliament...:nope:Because if you vote for the other party..It won't change anything. They're all working together.. biggest scam on earth. They look out for each other making sure there comfort zone is secure. Our interests don't' apply to there agenda. So vote for group A or group C doesn't matter, its all crap.

[STEED]

BURN IN HELL EU...You were saying Mr Big Brother that I can not say what I want? :O: