Control damage\repair

[Obelix]

Recently, I wondered to correct the existing damage and repair boats. Today it is one of the most vexed questions in SH5.
So, searching files and folders, I found that some parameters can be configured in the files NSS_Uboat7x.upcge. The remaining roads lead to sh5.exe, other ways to date I have not yet discovered.
I am interested in this: someone else was trying to change the system damage and repair? What results come from? What other files can be responsible for these options?
Now I'm going to test the available ways and try to improve a little system damage and control. If someone you know about it more than me - share your experiences.

[Sepp von Ch.]

I would have liked when in the game was not only combat damage.

It would be great when sometimes motor damage (totally randomly) during the shipping as it was often in reality. Player would be forced to devote more of their boat during a standard shipping and would have to repair the boat, not only if damaged in combat.

This U-Boot sim would be more interesting:)

[Feuer Frei!]

parameters can be configured in the files NSS_Uboat7x.upcge.
What tool opens these file extensions?

[Stormfly]

good idea,

i wonder if it would be possible to alter the flooding sound triggers also, problem is that @current we have flooding sounds and visible fx if the engines are damaged, totaly independent from flooding.

a good solution would be having flooding sounds if real flooding occour (including FX), and additional other repair sounds if the equipments including engines are damaged.

[Vanilla]

Are you going to mod existing zon files as well? As I was looking through the U-boat structure in Goblin I have noticed that the damage structure of the boat is quite simplistic: there are too few existing zone-boxes that represent only major structures, often combined together. I had an idea of creating new damage boxes that will reflect the boat structure more realistically, for example creating more boxes that would represent all the ballast and other tanks a U-boat had to represent floating and flooding problems more real-life like.

[oscar19681]

I would have liked when in the game was not only combat damage.

It would be great when sometimes motor damage (totally randomly) during the shipping as it was often in reality. Player would be forced to devote more of their boat during a standard shipping and would have to repair the boat, not only if damaged in combat.

This U-Boot sim would be more interesting:)

Yes this has allways been missing from the sh series. In sh-3 commander there was something called random damage allthought i never had any.
Would also be cool if you would receive randomd damage from sabotage later in the war. And random damage would make test dives at the start at the patrol al lot more interessting since when i make a deep test dive i know nothing nothing is gonna go wrong so eventualy you stop making them.

[Obelix]

What tool opens these file extensions?
Any text redactor.

[Obelix]

Guys, first we must deal with the fact that the current system of damages does not implement some of the highlights:
- The inability to complete destruction of what a system. Yesterday I had the possibility of damage, and was unpleasantly surprised to see that from the right engine was only 1% but the total destruction of diesel has not happened. Moreover - for an hour diesel has been restored to 100%. That is, the boat is unable to receive critical damage that would be eliminated only in the dock. At this time all the damage eliminated directly in the patrol. It is not correct.
- At 100% of one compartment flooding the boat without any problems to the surface - is also wrong

Also in this system there is no interaction with the rush job of captain the team - all damages are automatically fixed, nothing you can decide. In sh3 flooding of more than one compartment did you decide to give priority to any compartment in the elimination of leaks, which is primarily to send a team rush job. Here, you have nothing to decide

[Obelix]

Are you going to mod existing zon files as well? As I was looking through the U-boat structure in Goblin I have noticed that the damage structure of the boat is quite simplistic: there are too few existing zone-boxes that represent only major structures, often combined together. I had an idea of creating new damage boxes that will reflect the boat structure more realistically, for example creating more boxes that would represent all the ballast and other tanks a U-boat had to represent floating and flooding problems more real-life like.
Yes, I suspected that part of the problem lies in these files and I checked the *. zon in search of solutions. But I do know a little time, so it's great if you make the necessary corrections to these files.

[Stormfly]

...and was unpleasantly surprised to see that from the right engine was only 1% but the total destruction of diesel has not happened. Moreover - for an hour diesel has been restored to 100%. That is, the boat is unable to receive critical damage that would be eliminated only in the dock. At this time all the damage eliminated directly in the patrol. It is not correct.
- At 100% of one compartment flooding the boat without any problems to the surface - is also wrong

Also in this system there is no interaction with the rush job of captain the team - all damages are automatically fixed, nothing you can decide. In sh3 flooding of more than one compartment did you decide to give priority to any compartment in the elimination of leaks, which is primarily to send a team rush job. Here, you have nothing to decide

ohh you need to test more or maybe a soup issue, there is a good chance that you end up with...

A: both electrical engines destroyed :hmmm:
B: both diesel engines destroyed :timeout:
C: all engines destroyed :D

so iam still wondering what skill level the engineer must have for beeing able to repair a complete destroyed item at sea, maybe also a full set of morale points ? :88) ...but anyways, this should be aviable only 1 times, enabeling returning to port using 1 engine, maybe with a maximum repair level of 70 % ?

anyways, a degraded maximum health for repaired equipment would be nice, maybe only 75% of damage is repairable, so that means if a damaged item have only 50% health, it can be repaired to rise a maximum health of 87.5% ?

...but doing so, repair sounds have also to be stopped if reaching 70%, or you enjoying them for the rest of the tour.

seams we need special code for this :D

[johan_d]

After I shot down a plane, what exploded, thanks TDW, just above us I have an diesel and electric detroyed.
Hull is sill 100% however, but I find this result strange.

Limping back to port now at half speed..

[TheBeast]

Just a thought, I am going to throw this out there!:ping:



Maybe it is possible to have two (2) damage models?:06:
One damage model as currently exists for combat damage.
A second new damage model controlled by PY scripts that can be linked to existing Combat Damage, damage model.
I think the second damage model is possible as TheDarkWraith takes control of orders to add delays. If conditions cryteria are also set in .INI that the script reads, that criteria must meet defined parameters before executing command. Then it may be possible.:hmmm:

Have maintenance time for equipment on timers. Amount of maintenance damage over time is determined by how fast (what bell) is ordered (Timer Time x Engine RPM = Wear time). Once said amount of wear damage has accumulated, it triggers a event. i.e. "Sir, we must shut down the Diesel Engines for Maintenance!" also maybe block Bells higher then Bells 4 on first event. If Bell 5 is ordered after this event, the Motor Office tells you it is not possible, we must perform maintenance on the motors. etc.
The same could be done for Electric Motor, Pumps, etc. all requiring different actions. Some require to have engines "All Stop", some require to be surfaced (Dive Planes, Rudders, Propeller, Propeller Shafts, Radar, etc.)
After Required Maintenance Time reaches certain point, the submarine components start taking actual combat damage.

Just my thoughts on the subject...

[johan_d]

good idea..

what I want to see is that depth charges can cause flooding, but they need to better tuned. It goes way to fast now.
Also, it should only destroy engines when they explode near. Engines seem too often take damage.

I have no idea of the engine reliability of a WW2 sub, but I can image that flank speed will eventually worn out the engine after a while, or get it hot. Would be nice it the engineer start complaining and eventually a drop in engine % gradually, what raises when going slower.
Maintenance should be impossible when on battle stations, postponed.

Battle damage should be always there, and going flank while in battle, well you can do it, but eventually the speed wll decay..

Batteries are known for less power when loaded constantly, it lowers life span, but again, no idea of ww2 batteries in a sub.
There aint much todo on the atlantic on batteries by an engineer I think.
The draw curve should be better, below 50% it should drain much faster.

[Stormfly]

good idea..

what I want to see is that depth charges can cause flooding, but they need to better tuned. It goes way to fast now.
Also, it should only destroy engines when they explode near. Engines seem too often take damage.

I have no idea of the engine reliability of a WW2 sub, but I can image that flank speed will eventually worn out the engine after a while, or get it hot. Would be nice it the engineer start complaining and eventually a drop in engine % gradually, what raises when going slower.
Maintenance should be impossible when on battle stations, postponed.

Battle damage should be always there, and going flank while in battle, well you can do it, but eventually the speed wll decay..

Batteries are known for less power when loaded constantly, it lowers life span, but again, no idea of ww2 batteries in a sub.
There aint much todo on the atlantic on batteries by an engineer I think.
The draw curve should be better, below 50% it should drain much faster.

Ithink batterys in that subs are compareable with a conventional acid car battery, they have metall grids which get destroyed by acid if they are to much discharged over a longer time. They have also no memory effect like maybe your nickel cadmium mobil phone accu ;)

[TheBeast]

good idea..

what I want to see is that depth charges can cause flooding, but they need to better tuned. It goes way to fast now.
Also, it should only destroy engines when they explode near. Engines seem too often take damage.

I have no idea of the engine reliability of a WW2 sub, but I can image that flank speed will eventually worn out the engine after a while, or get it hot. Would be nice it the engineer start complaining and eventually a drop in engine % gradually, what raises when going slower.
Maintenance should be impossible when on battle stations, postponed.

Battle damage should be always there, and going flank while in battle, well you can do it, but eventually the speed wll decay..

Batteries are known for less power when loaded constantly, it lowers life span, but again, no idea of ww2 batteries in a sub.
There aint much todo on the atlantic on batteries by an engineer I think.
The draw curve should be better, below 50% it should drain much faster.
I think Motors being damage would happen last, not right away.

Battery Draw/Drain curve is hardcoded. Time can be fudged a little in the SIM file by changing submerged range and or speed for said submerged range. Ducimus and Lurker now a lot on these controls for SH4 and I am fairly sure there are the same in SH5.
I rairly go past 2 bells submerged and that is when attacking. I patrol at 1 bell and that is 1 knt with fully trained crew. My battery drain after 12 hours is 75% remaining.
My NSS_Uboatxx.cfg files are all setup pretty much the same.
Here is my NSS_Uboat7c.cfg

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.10;<-- 1 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadOneThird=0.30;<-- 3-3.5 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadStandard=0.50;<-- 5-6 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadFull=0.80
AheadFlank=1.00;<-- 8-9 knt Submerged with fully trained crew. 10-11 knt Using Motor Officer Uber Skills.
BackSlow=-0.2
BackStandard=-0.40
BackFull=-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.66
Many times when evading DD's even 1 knt with "Silent Running" @ 155 meters is to much and I am using Improved Alberich Anti-Sensor Coating. 25% Sonar return reduction.

[Stormfly]

I think Motors being damage would happen last, not right away.

Battery Draw/Drain curve is hardcoded. Time can be fudged a little in the SIM file by changing submerged range and or speed for said submerged range. Ducimus and Lurker now a lot on these controls for SH4 and I am fairly sure there are the same in SH5.
I rairly go past 2 bells submerged and that is when attacking. I patrol at 1 bell and that is 1 knt with fully trained crew. My battery drain after 12 hours is 75% remaining.
My NSS_Uboatxx.cfg files are all setup pretty much the same.
Here is my NSS_Uboat7c.cfg

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.10;<-- 1 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadOneThird=0.30;<-- 3-3.5 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadStandard=0.50;<-- 5-6 knt Submerged with fully trained crew
AheadFull=0.80
AheadFlank=1.00;<-- 8-9 knt Submerged with fully trained crew. 10-11 knt Using Motor Officer Uber Skills.
BackSlow=-0.2
BackStandard=-0.40
BackFull=-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.66Many times when evading DD's even 1 knt with "Silent Running" is to much and I am using Improved Alberich Anti-Sensor Coating. 25% Sonar return reduction.

i use the manual speed control also, for going below than 50 rpm, sometimes all stop is also recommended it seams.

[stoianm]

i use the manual speed control also, for going below than 50 rpm, sometimes all stop is also recommended it seams.
how you can see your RPM?... if i run at 0.8 knots i am under 50 RPM?

[Stormfly]

how you can see your RPM?... if i run at 0.8 knots i am under 50 RPM?

the engine rpm gauges are only visible in 3D, try to find them above the dept plane indicator gauges :up:

[Obelix]

Ideas are good. But diesels I have brought is just an example. The whole system of damages should apply not only to diesel engines, but other sites boat. For example, playing sh3 I once had to return to their base on the second day of the campaign because of the complete destruction of the periscope, UZO and destroyed the bridge.
It is also necessary to change the system of flooding and water pumping.
What I want to achieve to date:
- When receiving damage the boat gets gaps through which water begins to flow. The crew for a limited time to eliminate leaks. Within about 30 minutes, they should eliminate all leaks to cease the flow of water. After that you can do by pumping water. Evacuation would be up to working order of some nodes, such as a pump.
How can I see some boats all still receive critical damage and destruction of aggregates. That sounds good.

Damn! My knowledge of English is still not enough to clearly express my thoughts!:damn::damn::damn:

[Stormfly]

...why should`nt it be possible to pump water out of the bilge, while the crew fixes leaks ? ...this can only be the case if the bilge pump is out of order or there is not enough power to serv it.

[Obelix]

...why should`nt it be possible to pump water out of the bilge, while the crew fixes leaks ? ...this can only be the case if the bilge pump is out of order or there is not enough power to serv it.

I was referring to another situation. I will describe it as an example sh3.
When my boat was damaged and began flooding the three compartments, I posted a rush job, click on the most flooded compartment. When they stopped the flow of water rush job, I threw the team into another compartment. In the first compartment of the water flow has stopped, but the evacuation did not start due to lack of human resources. Water does not fall off from the compartments until the rush job until the team has not finished the elimination of leaks in other compartments.
So, after the elimination of all leaks in some of the compartments began pumping water "automatically" and the first I had to send a rush job vacated team.
That's what happened: after the elimination of leaks in the compartment of pumping water was not made for a long time. That is, water is not decreased, but did not arrive. As soon as the free people, they pumped water from the bay. And only after that I was able to emerge.
That's why I think the system damage and repair in SH3 the best for today, it is a struggle for life. In SH5 this is not - or boat repair automatically, or get bogged down because of delusional algorithm repair system

[Vanilla]

SH3 is not that great. In real life there is no limit on quantity of the compartments the crew can work in (unless a compartment is physically inaccessible), the same is true for pumping out the water (providing the pumps still work). Moreover, you don't need a special repair team, since sailors on their stations present in a compartment would surely not hang around if there is a leak in the compartment. You can of course argue that you could prioritize some compartments, even just one compartment (though I doubt, given the cramped environment that the whole crew can work in just one compartment) but it doesn't justify the SH3 system when you are limited to just one compartment at a time.

More real-life like would be if leaks plugging and pumping happened simultaneously at a certain rate in all affected compartments (providing there is enough crew in the compartment to do the job) and you would be able to send some limited number of sailors and/or LI/Bosun to another compartment to boost the emergency repairs rate there at the expense for the originating compartment's rate - and this should also happen automatically (if you don't give a specific order of course), because no LI or bosun wouldn't just loiter to see the boat sink.
Repairing of the systems should not be started before all the leaks have been stopped and water pumped out of course.

I am not sure to what extent pumping could be prioritized or adjusted, I'll refer to papers and report back.

[johan_d]

Pumping like a maniac, and leak repairs should be prio number one.

[Vanilla]

Pumping like a maniac, and leak repairs should be prio number one.

There is no doubt about it, but not in just one and only arbitrary compartment (like in SH3) but in the whole boat. And some of the machinery repairs can (bouyancy permitting) take place simultaneously with leaks plugging, like e-motors, batteries, pumps, planes' controls, gyrocompass, fuel leaks, compressed air piping, electrical lines and many other important machinery required for the boat survival. Just review Das Boot emergency repairs scene when Numer Eins comes and gives the list of damaged equipment, or LI repairing batteries while engine and aft-t-room crew plug the leaks.

[johan_d]

yes indeed, thats what we need.. auto-prioritized.

[Vanilla]

yes indeed, thats what we need.. auto-prioritized.

Agreed. And I think it is a nice feature if the player had an ability to override prioritization if he wanted to for some reason. I guess the auto-prioritization should be disabled if LI is out of action (wounded, killed or is busy in just one comparment helping the crew on captains order).