New players, with some questions about the MH-60

[Althar93]

Hey everyone,

Originally, I was a SHIII-IV player, and felt it was now my turn to ping subs and send them to the bottom :yep:.

Basically, I'm a new DW player : I played the demo a couple of times in the past, never knowing what I was actually doing, and recently decided to jump on the occasion, when I saw the game for a fair 4 euros on gamersgate.

I've been reading the manual, and have been able to complete a few missions so far.

I am currently trying to "master" the MH-60 since I've heard (and it does feel like so) that it is the "easiest" platform to work with. I have played a few missions with it, the demo mission in particular, and although I'm starting to get the hang of it, I have a few questions regarding the aircraft and its stations, if you are willing to help out a new skipper :D.

Anyway, here it goes :

1 - Is there an easy way to drop the dipping sonar at a particular depth, or more specifically, how do you stop it at the desired depth? For now, I have found that using the "quick commands" on the lower tab is the easiest (rather than going into the ATO and stopping it from here) ?

2 - Does the depth of the dipping sonar have a big influence on "hearing" capabilities. I should probably read the entire manual before asking this :oops:, but can the active sonar be used to create a sub contact with depth info, as well as course and speed (I think I read that somewhere, but when I mark a contact, it always appears as a stationary contact, currently, I'm extrapolating that info via regularly-timed marks) ?

3 - Is there a way to know if a torpedo has acquired its target or not, and eventually if it destroyed the target. I tried following my torpedo which came closer and closer to a Victor III (my target, which I had on my passive sonar), but they just seemed to avoid each other ( When I watched the replay, I saw no decoy )

4 - Is there a minimal depth (maximal height, e.g. is there such a thing as gravity and Archimedes' principle in DW) and speed to be launching a torpedo. I've had several instances where I would drop a torpedo, and it would either drop dead to the bottom, or start bouncing on the surface before it would go down properly : in all instances, a valid target was assigned to the weapon (a MK50 if I am not mistaking), and the floor set to the sea depth at the target's presumed location?

5 - What is the optimal (given your experience) launch distance for an MK-50, in order to prevent the sub from launching counter measures and evading?

6 - Finally, is there a way to move a manual solution around, rather than having to create a new one based on sensor triangulation (unless a contact with bearing and speed can be obtained from the MH-60's sensors apart from the RADAR )?

That's all for now (it is probably enough :D). Thanks in advance for your help and advice!!!

[Molon Labe]

1 - Is there an easy way to drop the dipping sonar at a particular depth, or more specifically, how do you stop it at the desired depth? For now, I have found that using the "quick commands" on the lower tab is the easiest (rather than going into the ATO and stopping it from here) ?
I think you've found the best way. Although going back to ATO can be quicker than you think if you use the F-keys (probably F2 for that station).


2 - Does the depth of the dipping sonar have a big influence on "hearing" capabilities. I should probably read the entire manual before asking this :oops:, but can the active sonar be used to create a sub contact with depth info, as well as course and speed (I think I read that somewhere, but when I mark a contact, it always appears as a stationary contact, currently, I'm extrapolating that info via regularly-timed marks) ?
Being on the right side of the layer, if present, makes a big difference. And being at the lowest point of the SSP probably makes some difference too, and cross-layer detections occur sooner if the sensor (or target) is further away from the layer. For a dipping sonar, though, I would reduce all that to just being on the right side of the layer mattering. Your time is better spent dipping from multiple locations than camping out at one site fine-tuning the optimal search depths.


3 - Is there a way to know if a torpedo has acquired its target or not, and eventually if it destroyed the target. I tried following my torpedo which came closer and closer to a Victor III (my target, which I had on my passive sonar), but they just seemed to avoid each other ( When I watched the replay, I saw no decoy )
The torpedo will end its search pattern and take a lead pursuit course on the target--so it will go from circling or "snaking" to a mostly straight line (with course adjustments as the target manuevers).



4 - Is there a minimal depth (maximal height, e.g. is there such a thing as gravity and Archimedes' principle in DW) and speed to be launching a torpedo. I've had several instances where I would drop a torpedo, and it would either drop dead to the bottom, or start bouncing on the surface before it would go down properly : in all instances, a valid target was assigned to the weapon (a MK50 if I am not mistaking), and the floor set to the sea depth at the target's presumed location?
According to the P-3 OWTOP (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?96-Airborne-Guides-amp-Manuals) 100ft is the absolute minimum depth for a successful torpedo drop. The Helo might be able to do a little better. In my experiences, though, I have trouble dropping with the P-3 in less than 300ft.


5 - What is the optimal (given your experience) launch distance for an MK-50, in order to prevent the sub from launching counter measures and evading?
1000yd, dropped to the left of the target so that the torpedo can turn right and acquire immediately. Drop to acquire the target by the front quarter so that any decoys dropped won't be in the right spot.


6 - Finally, is there a way to move a manual solution around, rather than having to create a new one based on sensor triangulation (unless a contact with bearing and speed can be obtained from the MH-60's sensors apart from the RADAR )?
Nope.

[Althar93]

Wow, that was quick; thanks a lot for your help.

-About the answer to question 5, when you say the torpedo will first turn right, is that because of the snake pattern, or is this done by setting up a a particular weapon parameters in the ATO (I don't have the game running right now, but I did see something close to "running bearing" )?

-As for question 6, I had a feeling, just hoped things could be easier. Then I guess only subs and the FFG which have TMA can create moving contacts then (appart from using the radar and visual contact that is) and merge them (instead of having 3 different entries for the same contact, coming from the sonar, radar and ESM which I then have to remove all the time).

How would you do it? I have tried creating regularly spaced manual solutions along the course I managed to determine, and just before firing, I would cross the bearing line with a final hydro reading, and select the closest solution. It seems to work, but fills up the map pretty quickly and is somewhat tedious. Does it even matter where I shoot with an MK-50 toperdo, or is it "smart" enough to home in on the sub once it closes in and make sharp turn for it?

I'm probably way off on the techniques actually used, but this is close to how I play Silent Hunter and worked with WW2 hardware.

I also forgot to ask, is there a ruler somewhere (for drawing paths), the only usable tool I have found was the circle tool, and it isn't very convenient to use ?

Anyway, thanks for your help, it is most appreciated :yeah:

[Molon Labe]

Wow, that was quick; thanks a lot for your help.

-About the answer to question 5, when you say the torpedo will first turn right, is that because of the snake pattern, or is this done by setting up a a particular weapon parameters in the ATO (I don't have the game running right now, but I did see something close to "running bearing" )?
If circle, it will circle right, if snake it will turn right first. My answer assumed a circle setting. (Snake is good for engaging player-controlled subs outside of MANPADS range).


-As for question 6, I had a feeling, just hoped things could be easier. Then I guess only subs and the FFG which have TMA can create moving contacts then (appart from using the radar and visual contact that is) and merge them (instead of having 3 different entries for the same contact, coming from the sonar, radar and ESM which I then have to remove all the time).

How would you do it? I have tried creating regularly spaced manual solutions along the course I managed to determine, and just before firing, I would cross the bearing line with a final hydro reading, and select the closest solution. It seems to work, but fills up the map pretty quickly and is somewhat tedious. Does it even matter where I shoot with an MK-50 toperdo, or is it "smart" enough to home in on the sub once it closes in and make sharp turn for it?When you get a solid fix on the target, mark that point on the nav map ('Enter'), double click it, and fill in the text with the time of the contact. Do that enough times and you'll have a pretty good track and when you attack the target based on the last fix, you'll have a good idea how far he's moved in the time it takes you to fly there and drop.



I also forgot to ask, is there a ruler somewhere (for drawing paths), the only usable tool I have found was the circle tool, and it isn't very convenient to use ? I don't think there is a line tool, just the range circle. I draw lines using marked points sometimes.

[OneShot]

Tr this : http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=136 . It should answer most if probably not all of your questions relating to the Airborne Platforms in DW.

[Molon Labe]

I already linked that. :O:

[Althar93]

Brilliant, thanks a lot, I will have a look :D

[OneShot]

You linked the old version (1.2) while I linked the latest one available only in the downloads section :O:

And to prevent any further "wrong" linkage I simply deleted the old version in that post.

[toonsis]

I guess you got your help, now its just reps and practice. When I learned the helo I just worked 1 system at a time and didnt even try to kill the sub. Its a big help if you have the manual open and take a few notes of what you did right and what you think you did wrong.
I had a tough time classifying subs with the bouys and learning the dipping sonar passive modes
With the helo I usually set the Mk46 torpedo to passive "snake" and drop a half mile from my last MAD hit at his stern matching his heading as best I can ( perhaps he will not hear the torpedo ) or at the bow from 1 mile active "snake" ( this way the Mk-42 avoids any counter measures and the sub has little time to react.

:arrgh!: argggh

[Pisces]

There is a ruler tool to measure distances and true bearings from certain map points, but nothing like the line tool in SH3/4/5. The line doesn't stay on the map. You can only add lines (that stay) in the mission editor.

Wouldn't it have been great to have the best of both worlds, the extensive plotting tools of SH3, and the ability to edit map marks of SC/DW. But alas, no such luck!

If a torpedo is locked on yourself, then it is homingin in on you. This can be noticed as the bearing drifting extremely slow (or nothing) to the left or right. But this might also be something that is very far away. So you need some other way to determine the distance of the threat.