Q: Are we Focussing On The Right Things?

[Stevepine]

Would you agree about this list of priorities?


1) Fixing the crew management system.

2) Continuing to improve the A.I. ( IRAI has indeed helped but the game's AI is still often laughably bad)

3) Figuring a way for crew members to be killed in action. (still impossible?)

4) Crew members not reading a book when the boat is under depth charges lol



Recently a lot of mods have been making the game look better (which is fantastic) but it is mods that make it play better that are needed in my opinion.

My question is : what do you personally think should be the modding community's priority and main focus now?

[THE_MASK]

Its all scripting as far as i can tell . Someone has to want to do it and know scripting .

[Stevepine]

Its all scripting as far as i can tell . Someone has to want to do it and know scripting .

Yes , I agree. we can only hope...

[Zedi]

I strongly disagree with 2, IRAI is perfect and I never saw in any game such a tense and fierce AI vs AI battles as in SH5. AI is fixed. But if we are talking about thing like teh crew AI.. thats a complete different story.

[oscar19681]

I agree IRAI fixed the enemy AI. I think the next logical step would be overhauling the crew mangament and everything that related to the crew.

[Stevepine]

I strongly disagree with 2, IRAI is perfect and I never saw in any game such a tense and fierce AI vs AI battles as in SH5. AI is fixed. But if we are talking about thing like teh crew AI.. thats a complete different story.

I dont know.... many many times I can sink a merchant or 2 or 3 and destroyers only 5000 m away dont even notice... or come to investigate.

I once entered the port of Beirut and sank every single ship in the whole port one by one...lol.. and the destroyers supposed to be guarding that port (within a few Kilometers) were not aware of anything wrong and didnt come to take a look. (while using IRAI 30.0)

[ddrgn]

None of those things listed by the OP has ever bothered me... The AI was tweaked way back in the day by a few modders and was at.least playable for me until IRAI. I don't like micro managing my crew anymore with that RTS style system. I am glad its gone. As for reading books during attacks, well wouldn't know about that as I am always concentrated on solutions and diversion techniques.

[THE_MASK]

If the campaign was highly modified with ports having the new subnets , mines . Ships that werent docked but active and placed as elite etc . Port defences , blockadeships . Patrolling planes , how diffrent would it be ?

[jwilliams]

Would you agree about this list of priorities?


1) Fixing the crew management system.

2) Continuing to improve the A.I. ( IRAI has indeed helped but the game's AI is still often laughably bad)

3) Figuring a way for crew members to be killed in action. (still impossible?)

4) Crew members not reading a book when the boat is under depth charges lol



Recently a lot of mods have been making the game look better (which is fantastic) but it is mods that make it play better that are needed in my opinion.

My question is : what do you personally think should be the modding community's priority and main focus now?

1. Crew management is now automatic. I did like moving additional crew into compartment to repair and reduce flooding in SH3. But i guess thats not my job as a captain.

2. I haven't seen anything game-breaking from the AI, since installing IRAI. IRAI seams to have greatly improved the AI.

3. KIA. Yes this would add to the realism. And I would like this to be added. But is not a priority for me. I could also see problems from this, as the crew are part of a story and if one of them dies, then you could not progress through the story. I could happily play without the crew being able to die.

4. Not a major for me. I very rarely see this as I'm usually in the control room during depth charge attacks.

What you have listed..... in my opinion are minor problems.

The main focus should be :-

Getting additional Merchant ships into the game. I'm getting tired of sinking the same ships all the time.
I know modders are working on this, and I hope that they are successful.

Some other things that are needed, that I would place above your list, would be :-

wet weather gear for watch crew.
additional uboats.... (type II plz.)

I'm playing the game at 100% realism and have these mods installed :-

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[D:\Games\Simulator\SH5\MODS]

Anti Lag
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
Menu - Das Boot Departure Theme
Rel_SH4_BBC_1939_to_1945
Capthelms Audio+SV Touch Ups
SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
sobers realistic hydrophone operator SH5
Unterseeboot II SFX
U-Boat Propulsion SFX
German U-Boat Hydrophone SFX
Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1PlusPatch1
Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1Patch2
Speech fixes and additions (german version)
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Open_Horizons
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_Real_Navigation
IO_StrategicMap_2_2_for_TDW_6_0_0
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
FX_Update_0_0_15_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_BARF_1_3_Full_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_15_UHS_Fix
Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_TheDarkWr aith
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbances_v2_0_SH5
:salute:

[mobucks]

If the campaign was highly modified with ports having the new subnets , mines . Ships that werent docked but active and placed as elite etc . Port defences , blockadeships . Patrolling planes , how diffrent would it be ?


Extremely different, extremely awesome, extremely a lot of work. I opened a campaign once in the editor: hats off to anyone attempting this.:salute:

[Gammelpreusse]

If the campaign was highly modified with ports having the new subnets , mines . Ships that werent docked but active and placed as elite etc . Port defences , blockadeships . Patrolling planes , how diffrent would it be ?

This, pretty much. I recently reinstalled SH5 and gave it another try with all the new mods that have come out by now (btw, thanks so much guys, i am seriously grateful for all that modding effort, spent life time got so much more value added thanks to you. If you all one day decide to work together and create a supermod of some kind, I'd so be willing to pay hard cash for that). Added to that new merchants, the Type II and (!)IX(!) and this game would play in a different league altogether.

[Obelix]

...
I'm playing the game at 100% realism and have these mods installed :-

...
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_Real_Navigation
IO_StrategicMap_2_2_for_TDW_6_0_0
...
If you use 6.4.0, you need update IO version 2.2 to 4.1!:up: Otherwise you will lose a large number of functions included in 6.4.0 :yep:

[jwilliams]

If you use 6.4.0, you need update IO version 2.2 to 4.1!:up: Otherwise you will lose a large number of functions included in 6.4.0 :yep:

Thanks.... yep just noticed while playing that things where not quite what they should have been.

updating now.

:salute:

[Magic1111]

The main focus should be :-

Getting additional Merchant ships into the game. I'm getting tired of sinking the same ships all the time.
I know modders are working on this, and I hope that they are successful.

Some other things that are needed, that I would place above your list, would be :-

wet weather gear for watch crew.

additional uboats.... (type II plz.)

:salute:

Yes, I agree with this ! More and different merchant ships are for me most important, then comes the other above things in this order !

Best regards,
Magic

[oscar19681]

None of those things listed by the OP has ever bothered me... The AI was tweaked way back in the day by a few modders and was at.least playable for me until IRAI. I don't like micro managing my crew anymore with that RTS style system. I am glad its gone. As for reading books during attacks, well wouldn't know about that as I am always concentrated on solutions and diversion techniques.

I disagree. I thought the Crew managements in SH-4 was exellent. There was no need for micro managment becuase it was autmated , but haveing the option to move crew to certain shifts and certain teams to increase aficciancy was great. Also i miss giving my crew medals and promotions when back in port or even take a fresh crewman aboard. in sh-5 i can only give the same single medal to my officers. the crew managment Is also unrealistic in the sense that my officers never sleep and they cant even die.

[Feuer Frei!]

Maybe this should be a case of "Players vs Modders views",
obviously all the modders play the game, but i would think that the modders would have differing opinions to persons like myself who only play the game and enjoy the great work that the modders have thus far served us with.
Me personally, i'm spoilt with all the mods i have been able to receive from these talented people.
I enjoy SH 5 just the way it is atm, the graphics, the AI, the polish and sheen is all adding to me enjoying this game.
If, and if i stress there was anything that i would like to ask for for SH 5 in the near future it would be like a few of you have mentioned:
Crew management.
But, i can do without that.
It's not interfering with my enjoyment of this game, packed full of modder goodness.

[Bilge_Rat]

The game is actually shaping up pretty good now with all the mods. In terms of what I think would need to be adressed:

1. reworked 1939-43 campaign, along the line of RSRDC in sh4 with historical quantity and type of ships. I understand Magnum was interested, but this requires a whole team.

2. additional ships. I understand Privateer, Iambecomelife and others are working on that.

3. dud torpedoes: early war german torpedoes (39-42) had many of the same issues as american ones, but none of that is modeled in the game;

4. wet weather gear for deck crew. Not essential, but would be nice;

5. Crew management is actually not bad in the campaign with the "no magic skills" mod, now that the morale issue has been fixed, although there are still issues (ranks, skills) that need to be addressed;

[oscar19681]

Yes offcourse the current crew managment isent making the game unplayable. But i miss the sh-4 style crew managment which gave it a human factor. Also when i,m back in base there is nothing to do. Walk around a bit load torpedo,s slecht a mission thats about it. I miss the captians office where i would take my time to sort out the crew , promotions , and medals and see how crewmembers evolved from a bunch of rookies to a hard-core submarine crew. In sh-5 not having that just took a chunk out of the immersion regarding the crew. I dont like having the same crew all my career and i was quite immersive in sh-4 to have to replace crew members becuase some of them died in an attack.

[Rilder]

For now I just kinda wish there were more "All-Encompassing" mods since a new player coming into SH5 could easily be like "Wtf am I supposed to install?"

Of course there are the two Mega mods but they aren't complete yet so its still kinda "Ehh Is everything installed right? no I need to download this other mod to fix this thing?"

Maybe just a sticked thread to suggest what mods to download after the game is installed.

[stoianm]

For now I just kinda wish there was bigger "All-Encompassing" mod since a new player coming into SH5 could easily be like "Wtf am I supposed to install?"
what means "All-Encompassing"?:hmmm:

[Rilder]

what means "All-Encompassing"?:hmmm:

Like the Large super mods of SH4 I guess.

[stoianm]

Like the Large super mods of SH4 I guess.
i never played sh4 .. but we have an good mega mod for sh5... i have the feeling that my sh5 is another game after i install this mod... here is my mod soup:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]
Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_BARF_1_3_Full_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_15_UHS_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_15_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
AirTorpedoes
Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_TheDarkWr aith
1 degree bearing RibAr
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51
apa albastra pura
Black_Skin_albrecht
Church's Compass Dials Mod v2.2 - Option Two
Church's SHV 1.01 Keyboard Commands v1.1
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Illyustrator's Version
Critical hits 1.1 Torpedos
EnahncedFunnelSmoke1.2_SH5
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style
German U-Boat Crew Language Pack
Gramophone
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
Icebergs v2.4
Lite Campaign with Ice
Naights Submaine Textures (internal) v1.2(test)
Nauticalwolf's_Torpedo_Textures_v1.2
North Atlantic Green 1.1
nVidia missing lights
Officers skin by Naights
noir decks
Old Style Explosions V1.1
Patch1_Terrain_harbour_flags_Mod_v1_2_1
pescarus mod
plane test
Progress Bar for Fuel Batt Air CO2 and Push Buttons By Torpedo v1
remove electric torp wake
renow_points_0_compatible a fistfull of emblems version_by stoianm
SD_MapCourseLine_tiny_arrows_ocred
SD_MapLocationNameFix_v1_1
Shadow Improvement Mod
SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod
Stoianm Scopes 16x9
Torpedo Splash
TDC Graphics by Naights v1.0
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.5
Trevally Harbour & Kiel Canal Pilot patch
Trevally Tutorials - All v0.2 (for TDW UI)
Window_Lights_Redone_V1
Real Environment - Revision (reworked)
sobers 3D deck spray mod V7
sobers base sky mechanics V1
sobers realistic hydrophone operator SH5
sobers real trees
Stormys dark torpedo body + dark OBS periscope shaft v1
SUB SIM FOR====Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_Th eDarkWraith
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 Basemod
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional -6db damped Sonarguy
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional NavMap babelling
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional remaining orig sounds converted to 22Khz
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 HOTFIX 3
Unterseeboot II SFX
sobers talking conning crew mod
stoianm sounds
stoianm key commands
stoianm blue water and EnvNights compatible Real Environment - Revision
convoy
sobers base wave mechanics V15 SH5
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbances_v2_0_SH5
AIR Missions
missions back
soan
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_U-Jagd_Chrono


And to make an better ideea what are doing these mods for SH5 i will sugest you to watch some video tutorials from here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1623102&postcount=1

regards

[TheDarkWraith]

Of course there are the two Mega mods but they aren't complete yet

And never will be due to constant evolvement of ideas/discoveries

[Trevally.]

For now I just kinda wish there were more "All-Encompassing" mods since a new player coming into SH5 could easily be like "Wtf am I supposed to install?"

Of course there are the two Mega mods but they aren't complete yet so its still kinda "Ehh Is everything installed right? no I need to download this other mod to fix this thing?"

Maybe just a sticked thread to suggest what mods to download after the game is installed.

You should try each maga-mod:yep:

I use MO + the patch :up:

[Jaguar]

For now I just kinda wish there were more "All-Encompassing" mods since a new player coming into SH5 could easily be like "Wtf am I supposed to install?"

I guess it´s impossible because constant development and different answers for the same issues. We, humble players, must cope with the "variety anxiety" syndrom.

It occurred to me late last night
I’ve got an ailment I can’t control
It’s probably not too serious
But it affects the stuff I scroll

Variety anxiety
It pervades my daily ritual
Can’t choose between life’s entrees
Because they all are quite habitual


:D

[Sailor Steve]

Mega-Mods...

Good: Many different mods working together, tested to insure a minimum of conflicts.

Bad: One person's idea of what should be there. Just read the SH3 forums to see how it works (or doesn't). First you have Super-Mod of choice, then you have dozens of other mods added on, with the same conflict problems. Then you get complaints: "I'm using your supermod, how come my game crashes?" Then you get "I wish somebody would combine the best of these two (or five) supermods." Then you get modders asking "Whose best? Yours? Mine? Our ideas of what's best aren't necessarily the same. You want Mod A's graphics, Mod B's AI and Mod C's sensors, while I think Mod A's AI is better and Mod D has the best graphics."

I'm not knocking Mega-Mods - just the opposite. I love 'em. On the other hand if I could have all the combinations I wanted to try I'd need another terrabyte drive just for Silent Hunter. :D

[Galanti]

1. reworked 1939-43 campaign, along the line of RSRDC in sh4 with historical quantity and type of ships. I understand Magnum was interested, but this requires a whole team.


This. I keep checking back, as I want to someday get my money's worth out of SH5, but sadly this area isn't coming along nearly as nicely as others. And frankly, it's the most critical for me personally. I think the walkable interiors add tremendously to the immersion factor, but a somewhat authentic campaign really brings the experience home. On the bright side, TheDarkWraith's new radio traffic is a fantastic step in this direction.

Also, I understand there are currently enormous technical hurdles to overcome with importing new ships, but unless we get some new targets to sink, I don't see much longevity in this title.

A complete UI overhaul is need as well, to lose that postmodern feel. I don't necessarily mean the HUD elements, as they've been worked on, but everything from the main menu to the radio message flimsies need to be de-iPhone'd and refactored with the 1940s in mind. There is a nav map mod that addresses that very nicely, and I think we need to see more of those.

[Feuer Frei!]

here is my mod soup:
It is a very big soup :O:

[stoianm]

It is a very big soup :O:
it is true ... but you saw the graphics, interface, sounds, AI and so one from my game now?:O:

[Feuer Frei!]

but you saw the graphics, interface, sounds, AI and so one from my game now?:O:
Yes.
And all necessary.
Must-haves for sure.

[Tarnsman]

I think things are progressing quite nicely and a kind of momentum is building so that soon SH5 will be where it should have been when released.

Most of the obvious broken stuff is fixed (hydrophone operation esp.)
-Enemy AI is much improved and now playable.

-Some good options on the UI, I no longer feel like I am adjusting settings on my c1988 Nakamichi stereo system.

I am looking forward towards getting the rest of the crew onboard, and eventually getting them to respond to action appropriately. Getting the rest of the tower crew in SH4 was a huge boost and Im sure it will be even better in SH5.

Definitely need more ships.

[Ducimus]

My question is : what do you personally think should be the modding community's priority and main focus now?

From my experience, i have two thoughts:

Thought 1:
I personally think it's better to work on the things that the player has the most immediate and direct interaction with first; and then work outwards from there to the things they see the least and have indirect interaction with.

Thought 2:
When you have a lot on your plate, It is better and more time efficient to work on one or two smaller items you KNOW you can fix, as opposed to spending time on an item you THINK you can fix.

[Zedi]

With 100% realism and real navigation enabled this sim is getting dark and even scary, a feeling that I never felt in any other game.

The full 3D environment, the wild and unpredictable AI, the strong feeling that you are all alone in the middle of nowhere where none can help you is so strong that makes you feel very uncomfortable, most of the times when me sub is under heavy dc session I just quit the game.. I feel that I cannot take it anymore. It really makes you feel what those guys felt at that time.

SH5 changed dramatically after his first year and is the result of the hard work of those moders who believed in SH5, of those who never backed off when they encountered problems that seemed to be unsolvable.

And the main engine was TDW, he always believed in SH5 and pushed things forward constantly, even when more experienced moders said that there is nothing to do.. this game is a waste of time.

My sincere respect and appreciation to TDW and all the moders who pushed things so far.

/bow

[stoianm]

With 100% realism and real navigation enabled this sim is getting dark and even scary, a feeling that I never felt in any other game.

The full 3D environment, the wild and unpredictable AI, the strong feeling that you are all alone in the middle of nowhere where none can help you is so strong that makes you feel very uncomfortable, most of the times when me sub is under heavy dc session I just quit the game.. I feel that I cannot take it anymore. It really makes you feel what those guys felt at that time.

SH5 changed dramatically after his first year and is the result of the hard work of those moders who believed in SH5, of those who never backed off when they encountered problems that seemed to be unsolvable.

And the main engine was TDW, he always believed in SH5 and pushed things forward constantly, even when more experienced moders said that there is nothing to do.. this game is a waste of time.

My sincere respect and appreciation to TDW and all the moders who pushed things so far.

/bow
I subscribe at this and i agree 100%:salute:

[jwilliams]

My sincere respect and appreciation to TDW and all the moders who pushed things so far.



^^
This.

:salute:

[Agima]

Well, the way I'm seeing this, modders are in general working alone, doing there own little things. This way, a lot of mods are created, different visions are shared and that create in the end a lot of variety and choices for the end users.

But all that come to a price. Plenty of choices, while been a positive thing, might overwelm users (findind the mods themselves, finding the most recent and/or working version of mods, the number of mods available, similar mods, install order, etc.) Sure, since the appearance of JSGME, it greatly helped the users in the task of installing mods. Nobody can't deny that. But even so, that mods installation software did bring (at least more clearly) conflicts when installing mods.

Let's take me for example. I know my way around computer pretty much, software or hardware wise. I played with SH3 when it was released. Of I'm by no mean a talented sub simulator captain. No, I was and still are a newbie to this. I havent played much too, but always like the game. So recently I've decided to buy SH5, for a cheap price and hence my return to Subsim after a long while.

And here my vision and tough about my return, mods looking and such :

First, I install the came. Easy part. Same for updating the game with the official patch.

Started to play with the tutorial mission a bit. Wow, something wrong. It as been years since I haven't played SH3, but I feel, without knowing what at first, that there is a lot missing. Dorp by to Subsim to search a little, and of course, I understood that some functions are disabled at the beginning, while others are completely missing from the release and patched version of the game. Im' surprised. Shocked actually, to see the the game was released in this state, and the final patches didn't even corrected or added those issues.

Let's face it, a lot of people didn't buy the game because of the DRM scheme, and in the end it might have contributed the obvious unfinished state of the game and the lack of support of Ubisoft after the release if the game.

So everybody turn to the very talented and very active Subsim's Modders to save the day, and make the best of SH5. But all of that as taken time. A lot have been made, but there's still a lot to be done. All in good time.

So to continue with myself, I wanted to mod the game to have a better gameplay experience. Where to start? Mmmm..

1- Oh look, a Downloads Now Open button! Seems to be the most obvious place! So I take a look. There is an appreciable list of mods there, all categorized. I'm reading and taking notes.

2- Came back to the SHV modding section. Oh look, a sticky with Populars mods. Again, I'm reading and taking notes. Is that all now?

3- Off course not. There is a lot of other REL or WIP mods in the modding forums. I dig trought 20 pages, trying to find what's available. A lot to say the least. I then compile my notes and make myself a list of mods that I would like to install.

But first I have to look at something. The so-called "supermods". What are they. Oh! A mix of mods all together, so it can be enabled in a easy way. Nice. But I'm reluctant a bit. I don't install anything and everything in my computer OS, and I feel the same about supermods. But then again I don't know much about them. After all, why would I wnat to install mods from a supermod the I might no want to use. Seems to me that least is better, conflicting and performance wise.

But, as soon that I've stard to install individual mods, reading about the best version number to install, reading and trying to have the right installation order, reading about tweaking, moving or deleting files prior mods activation, while all of this is not THAT complicated, it become clear to me why supermods existed in the first place : a modder wanted users to have a easy way to install mods, and a better play experience, to his own vision.

Which bring me to my point. All of this make me rethink about mods and the Oblivion community. I just don't know exactly how and why, but they created an Unofficial Oblivion Patch. One that fixes the obvious bugs and errors, one that made the game playable and enjoyable.

I don't know if there is a lot of Naval sims forums, Subsim is the first I've found a couple of years ago and I always been happy here, but FOCUS WISE, I think it might be the time for Subsim's Modders and Owners to collaborate together to decide what would be and jointly create a kind of supermod, or as I would prefer to call it the "Subsim's Unofficial Patch for SH5".

While modders would still continue work their own mods as they see fit, in their own time, maybe some, with Subsim Leaders should start to think about obvious mods, mods that are widely used, mods that have a general consensus that they are indispensable to a solid gameplay, mods that are adding important functionnalities that are wrongly missing from the stock game, etc. and jointly decide to combine them in one patch, or supermod.

Since the price drops and since the annoncement of Ubisoft concerning the "supposed" change in the constant Internet connection DRM scheme, there might be a recrudescence of submariners coming to Subsim. New comers, but also people like me that have waited for a "right" moment to come back.

What I would like for them, is to start enjoying the game to it's best potential, and because we can't just do that with the officially patched version of the game, they might be able to just do that with the help of an Unofficial patch from Subsim, since such a patch would bring a better gameplay experience.

They way I see it is like this :

- Installation of the game itself
- Installation of the official patch
- Installation of the Subsim's Unofficial Patch
- Installation of other player choice mods, optional
- Play and enjoy the game at it's full potential

Well, sorry for this long post, but that was feelings about my coming back to the subsim, stock game appreciation, it's mods searching, understanding and installation, and my take on what, but mainly how, a part of the focus should be directed at!

My 0,02¢ only! :salute: