[REL] Depth charge water disturbances

[TheDarkWraith]

This mod will cause water disturbances when depth charges explode underwater. These water disturbances will mess with the destroyers/escorts sonar and hydrophone allowing the player's sub to take more evasive maneuvers and higher speeds for a short period of time after the depth charge(s) explodes. This is to model natural effects that happen in real life in the water.

Each person may want to tweak the size (m2) that this area effects to their taste, the ilfetime (in mins), and the noise value (don't know what/how this one works in game)

Can be enabled/disabled at any time

To install:
unzip straight to MODS folder and enable via JSGME

v1.0: first release
v2.0: adjusted lifetime of disturbance from 8 seconds to 45 seconds for each DC explosion

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20143692/TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v2_0_SH5_7z

:|\\

[stoianm]

:rock::rock::rock: @TDW i just tested you mission RAOFB practice and i decided to surface my uboat... then surprise... i heard from first time untill now wistles and horn from ships... was soo cool.... maybe you will add in your next FIX these sounds for all ships

Thank you for this mod... now i can use again my evasion tactics like in real life... you put this game on the water line with all your mods:salute:

Edit: the life time what is control? - the time that the noise persist?... you know the limits (max and min value) for this parameter? - i am supousing that noise value should be how big is the noise volume or i am wrong?... this parameter are limits (like min an max)?

thank you

[Magic1111]

Thanks TDW for this MOD from me too ! :yeah:

[charognard]

install after IRAI ?? or no importance ?

[TheDarkWraith]

Edit: the life time what is control? - the time that the noise persist?... you know the limits (max and min value) for this parameter? - i am supousing that noise value should be how big is the noise volume or i am wrong?... this parameter are limits (like min an max)?

thank you

The lifetime controls how long this disturbance (from each DC explosion) lasts. The time is in mins and thus is why I have a value of 0.1333 (0.1333 * 60 seconds = 8 seconds). The min value is 0 and the max value is whatever you want.
The noise value I have no clue what it does/how it effects the game. The .act file says the value should be >= 0. Now if that isn't vague I don't know what is :shifty: You'll have to experiment with the noise value and report back your findings so we can determine what exactly this does. The min value for noise is 0 and the max value is :06:

[TheDarkWraith]

install after IRAI ?? or no importance ?

I would install as last mod but it really doesn't matter :up:

[CCIP]

This is gonna make IRAI very, very interesting indeed. Great work, looking forward to having a go at this soon! :up:

[stoianm]

The lifetime controls how long this disturbance (from each DC explosion) lasts. The time is in mins and thus is why I have a value of 0.1333 (0.1333 * 60 seconds = 8 seconds). The min value is 0 and the max value is whatever you want.
The noise value I have no clue what it does/how it effects the game. The .act file says the value should be >= 0. Now if that isn't vague I don't know what is :shifty: You'll have to experiment with the noise value and report back your findings so we can determine what exactly this does. The min value for noise is 0 and the max value is :06:
thanks for this formula: 0.133*60 seconde = 8 seconds (how in the name of god you figured this out:)?) ... i saw in an movie tha the noise persist around 45 seconds in medium (from the time that dept charges touch water line and the time the last one finish to explode... this is for each DDs attack)

I will try to change numbers and i will repor if i will find something interesting... thanks for sharing this with us:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

This is gonna make IRAI very, very interesting indeed. Great work, looking forward to having a go at this soon! :up:

I figure that once we get it 'tweaked' to where it needs to be this can be added into IRAI :yep:. Currently there are some values in it that I'm not very sure what they do or how they impact the game.

The mod works like this:
I hook the events for the depth charge explosions and create a virtual bold decoy for each explosion event. Simple and elegant :D

[Bilge_Rat]

very nice. Tested it in the PQ-17 mission, still got killed, but I could tell the escorts lost me a few time and had trouble regaining contact.

As to how long the disturbance should last. I never found any solid info on that, but in the sonalyst sims (688i/SC/DW) where that effect is modeled, the effect of an underwater explosion can last from 30-60 seconds which seems about right to me. It's not just the initial explosion that masks the noise, but also the fact that the water molecules are all scrambled and mask the noise, much like a dust cloud that remains after an explosion.

Anyhow, I want to congratulate TDW on solving a major problem in the SH series. :up:

btw, how do I edit the file if I want to try out some personal changes?

[stoianm]

very nice. Tested it in the PQ-17 mission, still got killed, but I could tell the escorts lost me a few time and had trouble regaining contact.

As to how long the disturbance should last. I never found any solid info on that, but in the sonalyst sims (688i/SC/DW) where that effect is modeled, the effect of an underwater explosion can last from 30-60 seconds which seems about right to me. It's not just the initial explosion that masks the noise, but also the fact that the water molecules are all scrambled and mask the noise, much like a dust cloud that remains after an explosion.

Anyhow, I want to congratulate TDW on solving a major problem in the SH series. :up:

btw, how do I edit the file if I want to try out some personal changes?
With S3D... se here:

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l568/stoianm/fix.jpg

regards

[TheDarkWraith]

As to how long the disturbance should last. I never found any solid info on that, but in the sonalyst sims (688i/SC/DW) where that effect is modeled, the effect of an underwater explosion can last from 30-60 seconds which seems about right to me. It's not just the initial explosion that masks the noise, but also the fact that the water molecules are all scrambled and mask the noise, much like a dust cloud that remains after an explosion.

that's more solid concrete info than me pulling numbers out of the air :up: Should I update the mod to use a lifetime of 30 seconds then for each DC explosion :06: Feedback please. As much as I love to add randomness to things like this I cannot on this one. I have to set an exact time.

[charognard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon)

An unsuccessful attack does not hide the submarine from sonar.
When a depth charge explodes it can take 15 minutes before the disturbance can settle down enough that sonar becomes effective. Many submarines escaped during the time after an unsuccessful depth charge attack. Since Hedgehog charges only explode on contact, if they miss, the submarine can still be tracked by sonar.

Well a DC make 15min maximum disturbance time.

[Didd]

I don't know if it's relevant, but in my fishing boat, if I pass astern of something like a ferry, then the depth sounder goes all screwy for a good distance behind the ferry, presumably due to aeration and/or turbulance. I would hazard a guess that this would persist for at least a good 60s after the ferry passes.

[Bilge_Rat]

Surprisingly there seems to be little written on this. I checked my copy of S.E. Morison's "history of U.S. naval operations in WW2" which has 2 volumes on the battle of the atlantic. He has a whole chapter on ASW doctrines and problems, but never discusses this issue.

However, based on the various comments. I changed my copy to a 5 minute delay and tested it on the PQ-17 mission again.

Unfortunately, I wound up sneaking through the escort screen undetected:

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4867/irai001.jpg


http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/8704/irai002.jpg


...then torpedoed 2 freighters...

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6765/torpimpact001.jpg


...then snuck away without getting detected...which I guess was not the point..:oops:

I will retest..:ping:

[TheDarkWraith]

5 minutes is way too long. You are basically invisible! I'm thinking somewhere in the 15-45 seconds range would be good for modelling this in game :yep:
As far as hedge hogs I can make a small disturbance for them that lasts for a smaller amount of time. Seems like that is what is needed for them.

[TheDarkWraith]

v2.0 released. See post #1 for details.

Received some info about hedge hogs and how they are not implemented properly in game. They should only detonate on contact. I'm looking for a way to make this happen in SH5 currently.

[stoianm]

v2.0 released. See post #1 for details.

Received some info about hedge hogs and how they are not implemented properly in game. They should only detonate on contact. I'm looking for a way to make this happen in SH5 currently.
thanks... 45 seconds sound like an good compromise.. i will try this in game:salute:

[Bilge_Rat]

I tried v2 again with PQ-17. Totally different result, I was detected early and a DD made a beeline for my location...

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8407/escort420001.jpg


However he lost me after his DC run and the other escorts had trouble regaining contact..

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1657/escort42002e.jpg


http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8743/escort42003.jpg


unfortunately, there are too many skilled escorts and the water is not deep enough, so my boat was eventually sunk (I miss being invisible :damn:).

I did notice however that the AI has difficulty maintaining contact and was not able to use its usual tactic of planting the "director" right on top of my boat, so it is a step in the right direction.

PQ-17 is too tough though, I will have to work up a more realistic scenario.

[Jaguar]

This is a huge improvement TDW and a more than wellcome help to us poor kaleuns (since IRAI you seemed to be much on allies side :haha:).

Now one can apply more realistic scape tactics. The "director" being able to hear you even in the middle of a DC run is no more :up: .

[Cpt. Grouch]

I was just looking into this the other night. Going to download the mod and try it out tonight!

Also, we have hedgehogs in SH5?!?

Now thats just mean. :nope:

[Bilge_Rat]

so I tried out a 1940 scenario in deep water vs 3 "competent" escorts, 2 corvettes and 1 sloop.

At first I thought I was on to something since the escorts had trouble locating me and dropped DCs far from me:

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/109/escort40001.jpg


but they eventually zeroed in and sunk me with the third DC attack which was spot on and at the exact depth:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9583/escort40002.jpg


http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3366/escort40003.jpg


The DC mod helps, but I think the IRAI AI is just too good. :arrgh!:

[THE_MASK]

This is what i have none merchant difficulty at . Seems to work well .
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

[Obelix]

This Silent Hunter did not know! Simply superb work!
Thank you!:salute:

[mobucks]

Everyone is different. Its all about how you try to evade. I for one havent really ever been in danger in IRAI. I find that sinking a ship, and diving underneath it at flank speed and doing a 180 or 90 after passing under at silent running seems to confuse the hell out of any DDs. At least thats what i've noticed, maybe just luck.

[stoianm]

Everyone is different. Its all about how you try to evade. I for one havent really ever been in danger in IRAI. I find that sinking a ship, and diving underneath it at flank speed and doing a 180 or 90 after passing under at silent running seems to confuse the hell out of any DDs. At least thats what i've noticed, maybe just luck.
:up: - i use the same tactic when i hunt an convoy and i fire at close range... i evade under the convoy at flank speed and when i am other side i go silent and change heading... it is true... the DDs search in oposite side... where i was when i fired my torps:haha:

[Jaguar]

:up: - i use the same tactic when i hunt an convoy and i fire at close range... i evade under the convoy at flank speed and when i am other side i go silent and change heading... it is true... the DDs search in oposite side... where i was when i fired my torps:haha:

As long you don´t get a shipwreck upon your deck it seems a sound strategy :O: . Tried once. Didn´t work. Probably my bad.

[Bilge_Rat]

Everyone is different. Its all about how you try to evade. I for one havent really ever been in danger in IRAI. I find that sinking a ship, and diving underneath it at flank speed and doing a 180 or 90 after passing under at silent running seems to confuse the hell out of any DDs. At least thats what i've noticed, maybe just luck.

agreed. If you plan it well, they will never detect you and you can escape.

I am more trying to test if it is possible to escape after they have detected you and are running their IRAI search routine.

The answer may be that the IRAI escort AI is too deadly at sonar difficulty 100 and it has to be toned down somewhere in the 85-95 range.

However, from my preliminary tests, I think the DC mod can still be tweaked. I suspect the disruption time and/or noise factor can be increased, but still have to run some trials.

[Vanilla]

BTW, we should not forget that the DCs explosions' disturbed water presented a major trouble to active sonar as well. Is this modelled in?

Another thing with ASDIC - is it affected by knuckles you make when evading? The disturbance caused by radical rudder movement create long living water disturbance that is present as a false target on active sonar screen.

[tonschk]

Thank you :yeah: TheDarkWraith :salute:

[Itkovian]

Ooo, this sounds like a good mod. Will try it this week-end. Good info on evading under the convoy, too.

Itkovian

[tonschk]

:DL Thank you for this Mod TheDarkWraith :salute:

[Shadriss]

This a part of Magnum Opus already, or is it completely standalone? Love the idea, just dont wanna install it twice if it's already there.

[Obelix]

This a part of Magnum Opus already, or is it completely standalone? Love the idea, just dont wanna install it twice if it's already there.
It's completely standalone.

[Hypospray]

The link on first page don't work. Any change to re upload this nice mod ?

nevermind , I was able to dl in after a while :)

[Obelix]

The link on first page don't work. Any change to re upload this nice mod ?

nevermind , I was able to dl in after a while :)
I can not confirm that. Link working, just checked.

[S.Jaszczak]

I been thinking a little about this, when you look at the historical facts about the hedgehog, with the 15 min. of disturbance, we all agree it is to much, could you in any way make the time like 3-4 min, and set separate timers, so the first 3-4 min its harder for them to pinpoint you, and then the next 3-4 min make it easier and then again after a set time put it back to normal?

gonna try to explain in another way

time 0:00 depth-charge goes of..
difficulty to track sub goes up to 95% difficulty

4:00 difficulty to track sub 60%

8:00 back to normal?

would to a certain degree simulate the noise of the water bubbles fading?

don't know if I make any sense ??

[Magic1111]

The link on first page don't work. Any change to re upload this nice mod ?

nevermind , I was able to dl in after a while :)

Here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1y18d5pnt17c7cq

[THE_MASK]

Is this mod part of another mod now ?

[Magic1111]

Is this mod part of another mod now ?

No, not yet, because I´ve enable the MOD at last in my List and it overrides no other file from a TDW-MOD (each newest versions)!

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[sirbum69]

has anyone had a problem with this mod causing the ships depth charges to fall off the ship but never go off. Reason im asking is because this is the only mod i have that would change depth charges and i am currently sitting in the middle of scapa flow (LOL) trying to get out. Destroyers all around me yet they were not DCing me at all. So i was like wth. So i went to external camera and zoomed in on one that went right over head, And i can see the animation of the DC launcher sending DC after DC yet nothing.

This wouldnt be happening because the depth of the area is like 20 M total would it. Course even when i went into the water after seeing the launcher sending them overboard, i saw nothing in the water. So before i unload my whole mod soup i figured i would see if this is a known issue, maybe just inside scapa.

[Gandalfi2005]

This MOD causes a crash to desktop after receiving the VIIc U-Boot and getting on a new patrol. With VIIB it just works fine.

What do i wrong ?

My MOD List

Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1_Patch2
NewUIs_TDC_6_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.5
OHII v1.5 Patch1
sobers best ever fog V4 SH5
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbances_v2_0_SH5
Speech Recognition_MiTons_NewUI_Editon_v0.4_deutsch

[TheDarkWraith]

This MOD causes a crash to desktop after receiving the VIIc U-Boot and getting on a new patrol. With VIIB it just works fine.

I highly doubt this mod caused the CTD. More than likely it was my UIs mod that did it because of the snorkel. Is the snorkel enabled for the VIIc? If so, disable it, take ownership of your new uboat then re-enable the snorkel.

[0rpheus]

I been thinking a little about this, when you look at the historical facts about the hedgehog, with the 15 min. of disturbance, we all agree it is to much, could you in any way make the time like 3-4 min, and set separate timers, so the first 3-4 min its harder for them to pinpoint you, and then the next 3-4 min make it easier and then again after a set time put it back to normal?

gonna try to explain in another way

time 0:00 depth-charge goes of..
difficulty to track sub goes up to 95% difficulty

4:00 difficulty to track sub 60%

8:00 back to normal?

would to a certain degree simulate the noise of the water bubbles fading?

don't know if I make any sense ??

Just to echo this: I'm not sure what the current duration and effect of the water disturbances is (and as it's a dat file I can't check), but a second version about 50% of the strength of this one would be awesome. As it stands it makes things far too easy, but I want to keep the mod for the realism factor as DCs should have some effect on sonar & hydro! Hoping for your indulgence TDW :up:

[Gandalfi2005]

I highly doubt this mod caused the CTD. More than likely it was my UIs mod that did it because of the snorkel. Is the snorkel enabled for the VIIc? If so, disable it, take ownership of your new uboat then re-enable the snorkel..


How can i deactivate the snorkel ? In wich file ? :oops:
Thanks you very much

[cothyso]

is this included in IRAI at this moment?

[pedrobas]

is this included in IRAI at this moment?
No, is a standalone.
Enable it after IRAI

[Harald_Lange]

Stupid question:

Is this for SH5? and is there such a thing for SH3 or is it already dealt with in-game? ( I use GWX ).

[Hinrich Schwab]

Stupid question:

Is this for SH5? and is there such a thing for SH3 or is it already dealt with in-game? ( I use GWX ).

Yes. This is specifically for SH5. I am not quite certain, but I think that GWX models this for SH3.

[TheDarkWraith]

Stupid question:

Is this for SH5? and is there such a thing for SH3 or is it already dealt with in-game? ( I use GWX ).

I released a version for SH3 and SH4. You'll find them in the SH3/4 mods forums.
I originally made it for SH5.

[pedrobas]

I released a version for SH3 and SH4. You'll find them in the SH3/4 mods forums.
I originally made it for SH5.
Are you still in "paradise island" or back home?:DL

[TheDarkWraith]

Are you still in "paradise island" or back home?:DL

Still in Hawaii. If things go well today I'll be on a plane home tomorrow @ 7:30am (though I will not get home until about 2am - long day of travelling)

[Dwail]

Hi!. I've very strange problems with this mod. When I started a new Campain, Cause me CTD in combination with others mod's, or stranger still........ cause that any mods have incompatibility with others.

*** Direct incompatibility: (no matter the imput order)

TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Distrubances_v2_0_SH5
AMMO_v1.0_SH5_by_Raven_2012

*** Cause incompatibility between this mod's: (no matter the imput order)

Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_byTheBeast
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1_HotFix
AMMO_v1.0_SH5_by_Raven_2012
sobers reduced deck gun range mod V2 SH5
R.E.M_by_Xrundel_TheBeast_1.2
PE_MORE_CREW

Do you know something?

Thanks in advance!

[Sartoris]

Just to echo this: I'm not sure what the current duration and effect of the water disturbances is (and as it's a dat file I can't check), but a second version about 50% of the strength of this one would be awesome. As it stands it makes things far too easy, but I want to keep the mod for the realism factor as DCs should have some effect on sonar & hydro! Hoping for your indulgence TDW :up:

TDW is there any chance you could make these changes to your mod? Maybe create another version of 50% strength.

[gap]

TDW is there any chance you could make these changes to your mod? Maybe create another version of 50% strength.

You can easily customize this mod by yourself: just open the dat file with s3d, and look under the amun_Bold controller. The relevant parameters are life_time (duration of the disturbance, in minutes), and noise (strenght of the disturbance?).

If you get out finetuning the mod for having a realistic effect don't forget to report back here with the results of your testings! :up:

[Sartoris]

OK, thanks for the quick reply! I'll try doing that, because I feel like this could be a good addition to the realism of the game. I know I need every bit of help I can get, heh.:D

[Sartoris]

I can see that life_time is set to 0.75, so I'm not sure what amount of time in minutes this translates to. Surely it can't be 75 minutes? I think someone said the time is 15 minutes, so if one wanted to halve the time, one would have to set the life_time to, say, 0.38 (approximate value)? EDIT: Silly me, I just realized this probably refers to 45 seconds, and found the formula on the first page.

[gap]

EDIT: Silly me, I just realized this probably refers to 45 seconds, and found the formula on the first page.

:up:

[Piacesi]

I CANT DOWNLOAD THE SITE DOENT ENTRY NEED HELP PLS!!!!
:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

[NiKuTa]

Hi.Other mod witch i can DL. TheDarkWraith could you upload your mod on some other side. Gamefront side block a lots of countries. :(

[lmy76128]

i cant download
ah, game front is dog?

[Captain73]

Download you can post #38 :)

[Plague]

is this mod compatible with The Wolves Of Steel?

[Nippelspanner]

is this mod compatible with The Wolves Of Steel?
I was just asking myself the same...
(Is it actually even compatible at all? It is so old...)

[THE_MASK]

It is not compatible with the latest IRAI mod afaik .

[LcSummers]

Thanks sorber for that info.
Had CTD but didnt know why. Now i know it.:up:
:Kaleun_Salute:

[THE_MASK]

Thanks sorber for that info.
Had CTD but didnt know why. Now i know it.:up:
:Kaleun_Salute:It has nothing to do with ctds . It is not compatible because of newer parameters in the latest IRAI that make water disturbances obsolete .

[jonny_bass26]

I had this mod for a previous install of SH3, loved it...having recently reinstalled SH3 (new pc :-) ), I went to download it again - but the link provided appears to be directing me to escapistmagazine.com, more than a tad aggravating! lol. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong, or where else I might find this (very handy) mod? Ta very much :-)

[J0313]

I had this mod for a previous install of SH3, loved it...having recently reinstalled SH3 (new pc :-) ), I went to download it again - but the link provided appears to be directing me to escapistmagazine.com, more than a tad aggravating! lol. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong, or where else I might find this (very handy) mod? Ta very much :-)

Wrong forum bro. Might want to try the SH3 forums.

[jonny_bass26]

D'oh! Thanks, and sorry for the screw-up...not sure how I ended up posting this here lol

[FireWolf22]

I'm really interested in getting this mod, but link in broken. Appears the hosting site has removed the file. :-?:-?

[gap]

I'm really interested in getting this mod, but link in broken. Appears the hosting site has removed the file. :-?:-?

I think I have read somewhere that this mod caused the game to ctd in certain conditions, though I can't remember for which one of the games that this mod has be adapted to (SHIII, IV or 5) this bug has been reported.

In any case, I believe that the latest IRAI (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1436291#post1436291) versions have rendered this mod obsolete :salute:

[XfoXshoX]

Here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1y18d5pnt17c7cq

Thanks a lot. Since Dark Wraith has been gone from subsim for the last 3 years, he isn't available to give new download link and I was hoping to find a good Samaritan that had a new link. Any one who sees this, use the above link. It works as of 8/18/19.

[Aktungbby]

FIREWOLF22!:Kaleun_Salute:

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > FIREWOLF22
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