[REL] Depth charge water disturbances

[TheDarkWraith]

This mod will cause water disturbances when depth charges explode underwater. These water disturbances will mess with the destroyers/escorts sonar and hydrophone allowing the player's sub to take more evasive maneuvers and higher speeds for a short period of time after the depth charge(s) explodes. This is to model natural effects that happen in real life in the water.

Each person may want to tweak the size (m2) that this area effects to their taste, the ilfetime (in mins), and the noise value (don't know what/how this one works in game)

Can be enabled/disabled at any time

To install:
unzip straight to MODS folder and enable via JSGME

v1.0: first release
v2.0: adjusted surface, lifetime, and noise (via some feedback from Rubini)
v3.0: added support for hedge hogs
v4.0: adjusted lifetime of disturbance from 8 seconds to 45 seconds for each DC explosion

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20143730/TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3_7z

:|\\

[Sailor Steve]

Cool! Will install at the end of this patrol. :rock:

[frau kaleun]

At the rate cool stuff is being released lately, I may never get out of base again.

"Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in..." :haha:

[Bakkels]

"Our true enemy, has yet to reveal himself!" :haha::03:

But once again, great little mod DarkWraith. Thanks.

[Fish In The Water]

Great innovation...

Between this and fire damage things are really (pardon the pun) heating up. Thanks very much! :salute:

[Victor Schutze]

Very good improvement realism wise!:rock::rock::rock:

I try it as soon as i get back to port

[Damo]

Well TDW, always been a fan of your work ever since SH4 Effects for SH3. I kind of build most of my SH3 installs around that mod. Just recently got SH5 and been tinkering with a few of your offerings on that too. In fact, with all the stuff you do over there, then find time to come over here and solve age old problems that have been crying out for a solution for so long, I worry that you may be neglecting your real life, maybe dreaming in binary by now?

So as a thankyou, and I'm sure the rest of the subsim community will agree with me, take the rest of the weekend off, kick back with a beer in your hand (or your favorite ladyfriend, fnarr, fnarr) and relax. Report back once you are refreshed and rested with news of your next groundbreaking endeavour.

We'll cover for you at BdU.

:03:

[Rubini]

Hi TDw,

Thanks again for more this mod. I didn´t tested it yet..but my curiosity already openned the file.:DL You know that I tried to make it without success...:damn:

So, I noticed that it isn´t attached to the DC/DC effects in any way (no parent ID related - it´s zero in truth) So, how you attached the bold effect to the DC explosion?:hmmm:

If you prefer you can reply me by PM.
Cheers!

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi TDw,

Thanks again for more this mod. I didn´t tested it yet..but my curiosity already openned the file.:DL You know that I tried to make it without success...:damn:

So, I noticed that it isn´t attached to the DC/DC effects in any way (no parent ID related - it´s zero in truth) So, how you attached the bold effect to the DC explosion?:hmmm:

If you prefer you can reply me by PM.
Cheers!

Look closely at the file. You'll find the IDs of the DC explosion effects as the parents of a special controller. This controller exists in an .act file but I had to 'make' it (this goes way back to my SH4 effects for SH3 mod as to how I did the secondary explosions) from the data I found in that .act file as it didn't exist anywhere in any of the files (it took many, many tries to get the format of it correct) :yep:

[Rubini]

Don´t Mind!

Got it!:up:

[Rubini]

Ok, i can´t resist. First feedback:

At first: it really works!! Kudos TDW! (I have get close, I just didn´t put a 3D ID object on the main node!):yeah:

I make a round of quick tests on U505 mission and I found it more useful adjusting the parameters as below:
life_time=10
surface=250
noise=0,5

In each DC attack round all the DC explodes on a short period from the first one to the last, in less than ten seconds (medium), so adjusting it for 10 we will have almost 20 seconds of disturbance.

The noise parameter is a hydrophone only disturbance (i guess), so 0,5 seems a good number&good results ( based on sim.cfg hydrophone values).

Could be good if others could also looked at these values&test them to we find the best ones. I guess that TDW haven´t enough time to make deep tests on this.

Someone knows something historical about how much the DC brings a ASDIC/Hydrophone disturbance? :hmmm:

Cheers again TDW!

[rik007]

Wow! TDW, thank you! How long have we been waiting for this! :)

[Robin40]

TDW...the SuperModder

Can I activate this mod in mid-patrol?

I want to escape those damned DD's:DL

[Magic1111]

life_time=10



@ rubini: Do you mean really 10, not 0,10 ??? :hmmm:
Because the current setting from TDW is 0,12. And I mean the setting from 0,12 (TDW) to 10 (from yours) is a great difference !

@ TDW: Wonderful MOD as ever, many thanks ! :rock:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

I make a round of quick tests on U505 mission and I found it more useful adjusting the parameters as below:
life_time=10
surface=250
noise=0,5

In each DC attack round all the DC explodes on a short period from the first one to the last, in less than ten seconds (medium), so adjusting it for 10 we will have almost 20 seconds of disturbance.

The noise parameter is a hydrophone only disturbance (i guess), so 0,5 seems a good number&good results ( based on sim.cfg hydrophone values).

Could be good if others could also looked at these values&test them to we find the best ones. I guess that TDW haven´t enough time to make deep tests on this.

According to the .act file, the lifetime is in minutes thus is why I set it for 0.12 (0.12 * 60 seconds = 7.2 seconds). Surface is in square meters (m2) and from looking at all the bold decoys available in game the bold type 1 had the smallest m2 value so I used it. I really didn't have a clue what I should set the m2 value to. By releasing this for everyone to test we can come up with an appropriate value. The Noise value, well I really had no clue on this one. The .act file said >= 0. If that's not vague I don't know what is :shifty: What does this noise do? What is an appropriate value to set it to :06: Once again by releasing this and letting you all play around and test it we can come up with appropriate values.
Now why did I choose 7.2 seconds for the lifetime? It's a number I pulled out of the air :yep: I don't know how long these water disturbances should last when a DC explodes :-?

[Gerald]

According to the .act file, the lifetime is in minutes thus is why I set it for 0.12 (0.12 * 60 seconds = 7.2 seconds). Surface is in square meters (m2) and from looking at all the bold decoys available in game the bold type 1 had the smallest m2 value so I used it. I really didn't have a clue what I should set the m2 value to. By releasing this for everyone to test we can come up with an appropriate value. The Noise value, well I really had no clue on this one. The .act file said >= 0. If that's not vague I don't know what is :shifty: What does this noise do? What is an appropriate value to set it to :06: Once again by releasing this and letting you all play around and test it we can come up with appropriate values.
Now why did I choose 7.2 seconds for the lifetime? It's a number I pulled out of the air :yep: I don't know how long these water disturbances should last when a DC explodes :-?
The density of water, is the larger one in the air so your figure may well be relevant, btw thanks for a great addition :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW...the SuperModder

Can I activate this mod in mid-patrol?

I want to escape those damned DD's:DL

can be activated/deactivated at any time :up:

v2.0 released due to some feedback received from Rubini.

[Robin40]

can be activated/deactivated at any time :up:

v2.0 released due to some feedback received from Rubini.

thx TDW

I found out that with this mod activated oxygen reserve is immediately 100% when sub emerges

while it takes some time (2 to 6 mins) in stock SH3-GWX

I must check more

[TheDarkWraith]

v3.0 released. See post #1 for details.

This version adds support for hedge hogs.

Can't see how this mod can make the oxygen reserve go immediately to 100%. All IDs are unique (they follow the format that I use) and the method I use to make this work hooks some of the depth charge explosions effects and spawns a virtual bold decoy when they (effects) are called.

[irish1958]

DW
What program do you use to tweak the dsd file?:hmmm:
:woot:Thanks for these wonderful mods.:|\\
Not that you don't have enough to do:arrgh!:, but are you going to release these for SH4 and SH5?:know:

[TheDarkWraith]

DW
What program do you use to tweak the dsd file?:hmmm:
:woot:Thanks for these wonderful mods.:|\\
Not that you don't have enough to do:arrgh!:, but are you going to release these for SH4 and SH5?:know:

already released for SH4 and SH5 :up:

With you referring to the .dsd file that means you have version 1. Please update to version 3 at post #1. The file is now a .dat file and I use hex editor to adjust values. You could probably use S3D but not sure as I don't use it.

[Robin40]

v3.0 released. See post #1 for details.

This version adds support for hedge hogs.

Can't see how this mod can make the oxygen reserve go immediately to 100%. All IDs are unique (they follow the format that I use) and the method I use to make this work hooks some of the depth charge explosions effects and spawns a virtual bold decoy when they (effects) are called.

Yes...I rechecked and all works well

Thx again TDW:up:

[Bilge_Rat]

TDW is now officially the first multi-tasking modder. This must be the first time in SH history that a modder has released a mod simultaneously for SH3, SH4 and SH5.

congrats TDW. :woot:

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW is now officially the first multi-tasking modder. This must be the first time in SH history that a modder has released a mod simultaneously for SH3, SH4 and SH5.

congrats TDW. :woot:

Second time actually. First time was my ship/plane fire/smoke damage :DL

All the file structures are basically the same with SH5 throwing some strange quirks every once in awhile (due to the GR2 format). This makes it easy to port something I make in SH5 to SH3/4.

[Fish In The Water]

Appreciate all the tweaks, thanks again! :yeah:

[STEED]

Double thanks for the SH3/4.:up:

[TheDarkWraith]

I've received some feedback in the SH5 mods forum in regards to this saying that some other games that have modeled this behavior set the lifetime of the disturbance effect to 30-60 seconds. Currently I have it set to 8 seconds. What do you all think the lifetime of it should be :06:

[brett25]

HI TDW, perhaps have 2 versions "lite" and "strong"?

[Rubini]

I've received some feedback in the SH5 mods forum in regards to this saying that some other games that have modeled this behavior set the lifetime of the disturbance effect to 30-60 seconds. Currently I have it set to 8 seconds. What do you all think the lifetime of it should be :06:

I also guess that 8 is so few; 20-60 is better.

Also IMHO isn´t a good idea to have the effect for the headhogs, they have a more short explosion, without so much bubbles, then its RL disturbance is probably despresible.

I noticed that the time is in minutes but I heave a much better effect when i set life_time=10. I don´t know why but the result was more noticiable and yet without excess.

Also on the file structure you use two DC explode´s effects to call the virtual bold. I use the settings that i wrote some posts above only attached to one, under_explosion (so, only 1 call per DC) and the result is very good and the file yet more simple.

But for sure this mod is so good that the community most try it for a while and then, with more observations, we can have at end the "best" settings.:up:

[TheDarkWraith]

Also on the file structure you use two DC explode´s effects to call the virtual bold. I use the settings that i wrote some posts above only attached to one, under_explosion (so, only 1 call per DC) and the result is very good and the file yet more simple.

The game will use only one of those two depending on where the DC explodes in relation to the sub. That is why I included both of them for each kind of depth charge.
As for the hedgehogs I can make a smaller disturbance for them.

[irish1958]

The game will use only one of those two depending on where the DC explodes in relation to the sub. That is why I included both of them for each kind of depth charge.
As for the hedgehogs I can make a smaller disturbance for them.
Surely somebody knows how long the effect lasts for both DC and HH.
I will look into this tomorrow and see if I can come up with some reasonable time frame. Since the DC is dropped behind the moving destroyer in the dead zone, it may last a long time, until the DD has a chance to turn and acquire the sub again. As for the hedge hogs, since they are thrown in front and to the side, and since they are many of them, the ASDIC disturbance could be worse. This is just speculation. Someone must know.

It might also vary depending upon the date in the war, as I assume the equipment improved over the years as did radar.
In the mean time, I think a time of 60+/- would make the game better. Too short and it won't help, too long and it is probably not as interesting as it may make evasion too easy.
This is a great mod and add a lot to the game. Thanks again.

[Fish In The Water]

It's difficult to come up with specific references off the top of my head, but I do recall reading something in the range of 30 seconds. Most accounts describe the period of sonar loss as 'brief,' but few go so far as to assign an actual time frame.

One thing they do seem to agree on is that it was often tricky to reacquire contact even after the turbulence had subsided. Hence the need to develop multiple tracking tactics.

I too will look into this to see if I can find some reputable sources that help spell it out. Once again great mod, thanks for sticking with it and especially for considering community input.

[Robin40]

Surely somebody knows how long the effect lasts for both DC and HH.
I will look into this tomorrow and see if I can come up with some reasonable time frame. Since the DC is dropped behind the moving destroyer in the dead zone, it may last a long time, until the DD has a chance to turn and acquire the sub again.
Thanks again.

This applies if only one DD is chasing...in a Hunter-Killer group there is at least one DD listening on hydrophones

[Stiebler]

Times for asdic disturbance:

When escorts dropped depthcharges, they sank slowly, and exploded at different depths (e.g. some at 100m, some at 150m, for a 'bracket' of the U-boat.)

Thus the total time of disturbance was likely to be of the order of minutes, not seconds. I think Rubini's suggestion of 10 minutes was pretty good.

[To give a concrete example, when two *expert* sloops attacked U-504 almost simultaneously, at great depth, in two attacks separated by just six minutes, it required almost an hour to re-establish contact. This was in June 1943, when asdic equipment was efficient.]

Also, the whole point of the Hedgehog-discharged bombs (not depthcharges) was that they exploded only on contact with a U-boat (this is wrongly modelled in SH3), so there was never *any* disturbance in the water if they missed their target. That was why the hedgehog attack was so popular - no loss of asdic contact during the approach to the target, no loss of contact by neighbouring escorts if the bombs missed.

This is another great mod, TDW, indeed another essential mod. But times of disturbance have to be changed, and I regret to say that it is desirable to remove the addition for the hedgehogs.

Stiebler.

[SquareSteelBar]

...that they exploded only on contact with a U-boat (this is wrongly modelled in SH3)...Maybe that could be fixable...?

[Gargamel]

Maybe that could be fixable...?

While I have no experience in this, my guess would be that the devs just treated them as smaller, forward flung DC's, as they exhibit a lot of the same properties as DC's. Not sure how SH3 is coded, but it might entail introducing a whole new type of object in the game.

Although, if you could mix the object properties of a torpedo and a DC, you might have a HH, and then you could add the disturbance, as I'm sure it would cause that.

Just throwing that out there, as sometimes it take's an outsiders idea to spur a new approach to something.

[TheDarkWraith]

While I have no experience in this, my guess would be that the devs just treated them as smaller, forward flung DC's, as they exhibit a lot of the same properties as DC's. Not sure how SH3 is coded, but it might entail introducing a whole new type of object in the game.

Although, if you could mix the object properties of a torpedo and a DC, you might have a HH, and then you could add the disturbance, as I'm sure it would cause that.

Just throwing that out there, as sometimes it take's an outsiders idea to spur a new approach to something.

I have an idea as to how this can work. Will try it and see. Hedge hogs are the same way in SH5 so they need to be corrected to work like they are supposed to :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

v4.0 released. See post #1 for details.

I left hedge hogs in until they can be make to function like they do/did in real life. Still working on it.

[irish1958]

After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists. What I did learn is that the destroyer always looses contact after an attack and it takes a while to reestablish, if it can be. As Stiebler pointed out, an hour or more was not uncommon. Another source stated that there is a one in fifteen chance of establishing contact if the correct procedures were followed but that they rarely were.
Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating.
So apparently a single destroyer was not very effective against the WWII subs. If a single destroyer was attacking a sub, the tactic was to keep the sub submerged under periscope depth while allowing the convoy to escape. The depth charges were dropped set for shallow explosions to keep the sub down and unable to attack while the convoy moved on. The destroyer would then trail the convoy and to prevent the sub from surfacing and attacking.
Up until late 1942 or early 1943 (April) the US tactics were not to sink the subs but to prevent attacks on the convoy and success was determined not by how many subs were sunk, but how many ships reached port.
This changes in 1943 (for the US).
In the Pacific, the Japanese ran out of destroyers in 1944 so the US subs were unopposed in the last year of the war.
This mod is terrific and really adds to the game.

[LGN1]

Great work again, TDW :up: Thanks a lot for sharing! It's a mod for which I have been waiting a long time.

Just a small idea: it might be good to have two bolds per depth charge explosion: one with a short life time and much noise (to simulate the hydrophone's inability to track the target) and a second with longer life time, but no noise (to 'blind' the ASDIC).

Cheers, LGN1

[fitzcarraldo]

Really great mod...Downloading now and I´ll try it after my actual patrol.:woot::woot::woot:

Many thanks, DW!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[difool2]

Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating.

I have gone flank with an XXI near Flower Corvettes, only to see them doggedly tracking me no matter how I manuever.

[irish1958]

I have gone flank with an XXI near Flower Corvettes, only to see them doggedly tracking me no matter how I manuever.
Limit of the game. Couldn't happen in real life until the late '50s.

[Fish In The Water]

After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists.

I'm afraid I'll have to concur. Online sources appear to be few and far between. What I have come up with are a number of scientific studies that exam the dispersal rate of underwater turbulence, but few of these are directly applicable to the case in hand.

I see you're now recommending individual preference in the first post, and given current conditions, I agree this would seem to be the best course.

Thanks once again for a long sought (and essential) dose of realism. Your efforts remain very much appreciated! :salute:

[Myxale]

Wow, great stuff!
Looking back, it has been a holy grail sort of mod, for a long time.
Never thought it'll make it. OR that someone would be able to pull off.

Does that mean that soon we from the outdated KMariene will have working decoys?

At any rate, I can only agree with the earlier posters, that this is some great mod. Kudos to all involved.

And the stuff that's been released lately is amazing.
CheerS

[LGN1]

...
Also, the whole point of the Hedgehog-discharged bombs (not depthcharges) was that they exploded only on contact with a U-boat (this is wrongly modelled in SH3), so there was never *any* disturbance in the water if they missed their target.
...

Stiebler.

@Stiebler:
I looked at the hedgehogs in-game and it looks to me as if they are modeled correctly :06: They just sink and if they don't hit anything, they vanish at a certain depth. No explosion without contact :hmmm: I guess in this case there is also no bold-effect from TDW.

@TDW:
This is really a great mod, TDW! I just played around with the noise setting and it seems that you can really make the escorts deaf. They can't hear your sub! As I mentioned earlier, it would be great to have two bolds, one for simulating the noise aspect and one for the ASDIC part. Then it would be perfect. Thanks again for your efforts!

Cheers, LGN1

[rik007]

I never knew that you can add files to this game. The dsd-file is called "TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v1_0_SH3.dsd" so it doesnot overwrite an existing one. But how is it then picked up by the game? :hmmm:

[SquareSteelBar]

The 'Library' folder is the game's feeding bowl - it can't resist to eat anything found therein...

[MoN]

It seems to me this causes destroyers to dc their own dcs, especially if there is more than one destroyer. Watched two destroyers take turns on nothing until they ran out of dcs yesterday. I was kilometers away. This seems to happen a lot.

[TheDarkWraith]

It seems to me this causes destroyers to dc their own dcs, especially if there is more than one destroyer. Watched two destroyers take turns on nothing until they ran out of dcs yesterday. I was kilometers away. This seems to happen a lot.

Which is the point isn't it? You escaped. You can adjust the mod and tweak it to taste.

[Hitman]

It seems to me this causes destroyers to dc their own dcs, especially if there is more than one destroyer. Watched two destroyers take turns on nothing until they ran out of dcs yesterday. I was kilometers away. This seems to happen a lot.

This is not completely irrealistic. In fact the late war BOLD devices were designed to produce false echoes under water, and the disturbance created by DCs could probably do something similar, while also DDs frequently depthcharged around the last known Uboat positions even if not getting return echoes due to the disturbances, for additional increase of probabilities of a kill.:up:

[Wreford-Brown]

This is a very nice mod TDW. It gives a more realistic chance of breaking contact with destroyers and cooperative tactics towards the end of the war will go a way towards negating the advantages this mod gives you.

Another giant leap on the road to realism. :up:

[Salvadoreno]

conflicts? With nygm or gwx3?

[Wreford-Brown]

I've found no conflicts with GWX

[Stiebler]

No conflicts with NYGM.

There is no theoretical reason why there should be a conflict with any of the super-mods.

Stiebler.

[fitzcarraldo]

I've found no conflicts with GWX

...And no conflicts in LSH3, also all OK in GWX (heavily modded).

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

conflicts? With nygm or gwx3?

There's no reason it will conflict with anything unless there are identical IDs (which would be almost impossible as I have my own ID numbering system). The way I've made it work is by hooking effects which can't interfere with anything.

[Reece]

Thanks TDW, a good one for SHIII!:up:

[King_Zog]

Damn, so without this mod everytime I've waited for the depth charges to explode before going to flank speed and hard rudder it has been completely pointless!? Oh well, downloading now, thanks for making this DarkWraith!

[ryanwigginton]

Me also. I read about this tactic here on the forum, maybe two years ago and did it ever since, never realising it weren't actually modelled. :-?

Have also been doing it in SH4. Stupid! Great mod, now there's actually a reason to do it. :rock:

[Fish In The Water]

Damn, so without this mod everytime I've waited for the depth charges to explode before going to flank speed and hard rudder it has been completely pointless!?

I remember thinking how [un]-funny it was that it used to work all the time in AOTD, but not in SH3...

Oh well, no point crying over spilt milk. It's here now and that's what matters. Cheers once again for a great mod! :rock:

[Robin40]

Some clarifications

v1.0 contains a DSD file
v4.0 contains only a AVS Media Player file

Are these mods incremental or does v4.0 replace v1.0?

I replaced v1.0 with v4.0 and I have many CTDs when loading a saved game...however maybe this is not the cause

[Magic1111]

Some clarifications

v1.0 contains a DSD file
v4.0 contains only a AVS Media Player file

Are these mods incremental or does v4.0 replace v1.0?

I replaced v1.0 with v4.0 and I have many CTDs when loading a saved game...however maybe this is not the cause


????? I think you look into a wrong MOD ! :hmmm:

In this MOD there are only one file ( a .dat file !) that must be activated in the data\library Folder !

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[Aces]

Hiya,

Just a thought, it might be because he has the .dat file extension (for video files) registered to AVS media player.

Best Regards

Aces

[TheDarkWraith]

Some clarifications

v1.0 contains a DSD file
v4.0 contains only a AVS Media Player file

Are these mods incremental or does v4.0 replace v1.0?

I replaced v1.0 with v4.0 and I have many CTDs when loading a saved game...however maybe this is not the cause

They are not incremental. They are full versions :up:

Yes you are correct, v1.0 was a .dsd file. v2.0+ were .dat files.

[Robin40]

well...I have continuous CTD when loading saved games played with this mod

SH3 GWX
GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6
GWX - Axis Mediterranean Aircraft Skins
GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects
GWX - Integrated Orders
GWX - Late War Sensors Snorkel Antennas
GWX - Main movie - 'Das Boot'
GWX - No Medals on Crew
GWX - Open Hatch Mod
LifeBoats&Debris_v2_A
WideScreen_SH3_V1
Loading Screens Mod 2
MFM-Interim-Beta
MFMBeta-EnglishNames
MFM-EnglishNames
SH3MoonMod
USS_LongIsland
OLC's Modified Searchlight Beams for GWX3
OKW_Funkmod_v_1_2
EAX_Sound_Sim_SH3
SH3_oggvorbis3
Hitler Speaks
M.E.P v3
M.E.P v3-Patch
MEP v3 VisualSensors for gwx3
SH-5 Water for GWX 3.0 V0.9 20 Km Atlantic campaign (default)
MFM-v3-Neutral-Skins-1940
MFM-v3-US+UK_Skins19420201
GWX-SmartKeys
Damage_caused_by_fires_TheDarkWraith

[java`s revenge]

Damage caused by fires is another mod than depth charge water disturbances.

Download depth charge water disbances 4.0 again and tell
us which file it consits.

[Robin40]

Damage caused by fires is another mod than depth charge water disturbances.

Download depth charge water disbances 4.0 again and tell
us which file it consits.

I used already Depth charge mod 4.0

The mod list is with depth charge mod disabled

I have ctd when loading a saved game played with depth charge mod

[rik007]

I used already Depth charge mod 4.0

The mod list is with depth charge mod disabled

I have ctd when loading a saved game played with depth charge mod

Saves with ships in proximity can also create ctd after reload. Typically you have to revert to a previous save or the one before that one until it will load. Of course spoiing a part of your achievements of a mission - not seldom ending up in port before mission. But unfortunately SH-3 has problems with saving/restoring. :know:

[slipper]

DarkWraith,

Great mod mate, really adds to the game.

Just a thought i had, as no one seems to be able to tell for certain what to set the life_time=xx values to, to give the best result. I was wondering would it be possible to make a number of files with different values that could be loaded randomly through SH3 Commander? Then the player would not know what to expect each time the game loaded, from escorts that are nearly immpossible to shake off to escorts that would be fairly easy to evade.

This could then simulate different sea conditions,experience of sonar operators etc. The player would still need to take care as they would not know which file had been loaded.

If this is possible could someone please show how it is done?

regards
and thanks for a great mod

slipper

[TheDarkWraith]

DarkWraith,

Great mod mate, really adds to the game.

Just a thought i had, as no one seems to be able to tell for certain what to set the life_time=xx values to, to give the best result. I was wondering would it be possible to make a number of files with different values that could be loaded randomly through SH3 Commander? Then the player would not know what to expect each time the game loaded, from escorts that are nearly immpossible to shake off to escorts that would be fairly easy to evade.

This could then simulate different sea conditions,experience of sonar operators etc. The player would still need to take care as they would not know which file had been loaded.

If this is possible could someone please show how it is done?

regards
and thanks for a great mod

slipper

I haven't played SH3 in years (SH5 is my sub sim of choice now) so my familiarity with SH3Commander has dwindled away. I'm sure someone knowledgeable in SH3Commander can tell us how the random feature of it works and then we can figure out whether this is possible or not.

[frau kaleun]

I'm pretty sure it's possible... this mod is only one file, is that correct? I downloaded it but haven't played with it yet. But if it's only one file it should be easy. Actually it should be easy even if it's more than one, still very much doable.

I don't have access to my game files ATM but it's just a matter of creating the different versions of the relevant file and then setting up the proper folder structure containing those versions so Commander picks one at random and writes it into the game each time you launch SH3. :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm pretty sure it's possible... this mod is only one file, is that correct? I downloaded it but haven't played with it yet. But if it's only one file it should be easy. Actually it should be easy even if it's more than one, still very much doable.

I don't have access to my game files ATM but it's just a matter of creating the different versions of the relevant file and then setting up the proper folder structure containing those versions so Commander picks one at random and writes it into the game each time you launch SH3. :yep:

Yes the mod is only one file. I can make different versions of the mod for different times for this random feature. How does the folder structure need to be setup for this random feature :06:

[frau kaleun]

If someone else doesn't answer today I can do so when I get back to the PC with my game files on it this evening.

I've used the Random feature in Commander for other stuff so I know I've got one working randomized mod in there already with the correct structure.

[slipper]

Thanks for the replies both.

different copies of the same files would be great DarkWraith, i tried to edit them but no luck.

As regards the random feature of SH3 Commander i am not really sure how it works, so better to stay quite unless i give the wrong info :).

Hopefully Frau Kaelun or someone can explain.

thanks again

regards

slipper

[irish1958]

This just requires a few lines in the randomized events folder (SH3CMRD\CFG\Randomized events)

"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
;This file contains details of events where randomisation of values are to occur.
;The section is the name of the file containing the event, including the full path
;from the "data\" level. Prefix each section name with #: to ensure that the name
;is unique. There are two types of randomisation available:
;1. A simple randomisation where a random value is selected from a set range. Usage:
; <SectionName>|<KeyName>=<Integer or Float+precision>|<Lower>|<Upper>|<Randomise mid patrol Y/N?> for text files OR
; <Offset value>=<Integer or Float+precision>|<Lower>|<Upper>|<Randomise mid patrol Y/N?> for binary files
;2. A "ChooseFrom" randomisation where one set of values are chosen from any number of sets
; Set ChooseFrom to equal the number of different sets of data, or a higher number if you want to simulate percentage chance
; Set RndMidPat to 1 if you want randomisation to occur mid-patrol, 0 if not
; Prefix each dataset with #_
;
;Include ApplyToPeriod=<Start date as YYYYMMDD>|<End date as YYYYMMDD> as the first
;entry in the section to set the date range for settings to apply.
;
;If you are adding more malfunction or sabotage effects, please prefix the section
;name with either Mal or Sub respectively so that SH3 Commander can include or
;exclude appropriately based on user selection under SH3 Options.
;
;This file or entries can be deleted if feature unwanted.
;
;==VERSION FOR GWX 3.0 ONLY=="

and not separate files for each event.

If one uses the random folder (SH3CMDR\Random) then separate files are needed, and the process is much more complicated.

[frau kaleun]

It's just a matter of the correct folder structure, then you put different versions of the same mod in the proper place within that structure.

I *think* the way it works is, inside the Random folder, you make a folder named

19390801

This tells Commander to start randomizing the data inside that folder on any date from Aug 1 1939 onward, so the feature is always in effect when you load the game.

Inside that folder, you have folders named

01
02
03

and so on, one numbered folder (in sequence) for each different version of the mod or file. That's the part I'm not completely sure about, the names of those folders - will have to check when I get back to the other PC.

Inside each of those folders would go a copy of the mod's 'data' folder, but each 'data' folder would have a different version of the mod's file in it. Commander would then choose one version from all the available versions, at random, every time you load the game via Commander.

Since it's only one file and I don't think there's a risk of it conflicting with anything else you might have enabled elsewhere, I'd say it would be easier to do it all through Commander if you want to vary things up. As long as you always start the game through Commander, the mod would be enabled in one version or another.

[TheDarkWraith]

So we just need clarification on the folder names for the random feature. Once that is clarified I can release a new version of the mod with an addition for SH3Commander's random function.

[frau kaleun]

Yep.

It would also be possible to set up a mod for Commander that could be enabled via JSGME and put everything in its proper place in the Commander folder automatically, just like you were modding the game folder. For this I would recommend a separate installation of JSGME for use with Commander. The advantage would be the ability to use JSGME to take everything back out easily if that becomes necessary or desirable for some reason.

Otherwise, I think it would just be a matter of creating the '19390801' folder and putting everything in it that needs to be there, and people could copy/paste it into Commander's Random directory.

For folks who are already using the Random directory for other stuff it would be a little more complicated, but if they are using it they probably know how it works and how to set up additional randomized data-sets along with what they already have.

[Wreford-Brown]

This just requires a few lines in the randomized events folder (SH3CMRD\CFG\Randomized events)

Unfortunately I think this only works for .cfg files - there is no proper structure to make these small changes in a .dat file.

What we could do is set it up by date rather than random so the effect lessens during the course of the war. That could give you a good 45 mins head start and a 350m radius through the first part of the war reducing to 10 minutes and 50m later in the war based upon broad brush Asdic changes.
May 1942 - introduction of type 144
Apr 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 128
Sep 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 147

Easy enough to do: http://www.mediafire.com/?pscwga39htop0m0

[fitzcarraldo]

Unfortunately I think this only works for .cfg files - there is no proper structure to make these small changes in a .dat file.

What we could do is set it up by date rather than random so the effect lessens during the course of the war. That could give you a good 45 mins head start and a 350m radius through the first part of the war reducing to 10 minutes and 50m later in the war based upon broad brush Asdic changes.
May 1942 - introduction of type 144
Apr 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 128
Sep 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 147

Easy enough to do: http://www.mediafire.com/?pscwga39htop0m0

But change the whole dat file via Commander? You have - for instance - three or four dat files, Commander load this file randomly with SH3 start.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[frau kaleun]

But change the whole dat file via Commander? You have - for instance - three or four dat files, Commander load this file randomly with SH3 start.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Yes, it could be done either way. Depends on the way you want it added into your gameplay.

If you want to completely randomize the effect of the disturbance, use the Random feature to pick a different version of the file out of the mix and put it in the game every time you play.

If you want to change the effect of the disturbance to match up with improving Allied technology and ASW tactics over time, use the Date feature to have Commander enable one specific version of the file only during a particular date range as WB suggests. You'd just have to know which version of the file had which values so that they could be put into the Date folders in the right chronological order, which wouldn't be necessary if you wanted a random effect instead.

[Rubini]

Just take care with changing certain .dat files mid patrol, what can lead to a bad save game. Sh3cmdr uses the hex random way (posted above by irish1958) exactly to avoid this problem.

To use a completelly "new" .dat (in some cases) I guess that you only can then use Sh3cmdr to start the game when starting new patrol.

Well, anyway i'm not absolutelly sure.:DL

[Fish In The Water]

What we could do is set it up by date rather than random so the effect lessens during the course of the war. That could give you a good 45 mins head start and a 350m radius through the first part of the war reducing to 10 minutes and 50m later in the war based upon broad brush Asdic changes.
May 1942 - introduction of type 144
Apr 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 128
Sep 1943 - introduction of Q attachment to type 147

Easy enough to do: http://www.mediafire.com/?pscwga39htop0m0

Interesting idea...

Taking a look now, thanks! :DL

[Robin40]

Just take care with changing certain .dat files mid patrol, what can lead to a bad save game. Sh3cmdr uses the hex random way (posted above by irish1958) exactly to avoid this problem.

To use a completelly "new" .dat (in some cases) I guess that you only can then use Sh3cmdr to start the game when starting new patrol.

Well, anyway i'm not absolutelly sure.:DL

Do you mean that the charge water disturbance mod has to be activated in port?

I had bad save game with this mod and after I disabled the mod no more bad save games

[Wreford-Brown]

Just take care with changing certain .dat files mid patrol, what can lead to a bad save game. Sh3cmdr uses the hex random way (posted above by irish1958) exactly to avoid this problem.

To use a completelly "new" .dat (in some cases) I guess that you only can then use Sh3cmdr to start the game when starting new patrol.

Well, anyway i'm not absolutelly sure.:DL

Randomising means that there could be a chance of CTD in any mid-patrol save as the new .dat may clash with the old value already held in your save game. By using dates there is still a chance of CTD, but only around the three date changes that I put in the mod rather than after every load. I have to say that I'm still not convinced that there is any risk of CTD as I'd be surprised if this particular value is saved in a savegame, but the only way to find out would be to test quite extensively.

I can't find the SH3 Commander file to adjust hex in a .dat file, only one that will change lines in a .cfg file ('Random' folder and the one that irish mentions above) . If someone could point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful...

[slipper]

Hi all

Have been reading everyones replies, and there seems to be two ways to progress, either by date or a random Dat file is chosen each time SH3 Commander loads.
Personnaly i would prefer the random folder option.

There are still a few things i am not sure about though.

(1) If DarkWraiths Dat file is made specifically for this depthcharge effect, then will swapping a different version everytime SH3 Commander loads really cause a ctd? I thought that the ctd's were to do with swapping files that affected more than one event?

(2)Does this mean the random folder is never used because of ctd's. I have some of Wreford Browns SH3 commander mods that affect the Cfg file, and have had no problems.

(3) Is it possible to make a random version of this mod, using both methods, for us all to try to see if there is a problem?

(4) There has been a lot of discussion about how it may be done. But does anyone know for sure how to really implement it into SH3 Commander? If so could they please post instructions, as Darkwraith kindly agreed to make multiple versions of the dat file to try.

maybe we should just give it a go and see what happens?

Thanks all for the replies and constructive talk.

regards

slipper

[TheDarkWraith]

someone setup the folder structure for SH3Commander and send it to me and I'll drop in the required .dat files. Then I can release it for testing :up: I don't play SH3 anymore and don't remember SH3Commander so I have to rely on you all for this.

[frau kaleun]

someone setup the folder structure for SH3Commander and send it to me and I'll drop in the required .dat files. Then I can release it for testing :up: I don't play SH3 anymore and don't remember SH3Commander so I have to rely on you all for this.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5581987379_181e10b678_z.jpg

The 'Random' folder pictured above is the one in the SH3 Commander directory.

Inside that, create as many numbered folders as necessary for the different variations, starting with '0'... inside each numbered folder, create a 'Date' folder. Inside each 'Date' folder, create a folder named (in format YYYYMMDD) for the date you want the randomization to begin. Inside each of those folders, put your mod's 'data' folder.

Inside each 'data' folder would be a different variant of the mod's files. I assume this would be a 'Library' folder with one variation of the .dat file involved, but you get the general idea.

This would be the setup if the only thing you are randomizing with Commander is this one mod.

[fitzcarraldo]

The 'Random' folder pictured above is the one in the SH3 Commander directory.

Inside that, create as many numbered folders as necessary for the different variations, starting with '0'... inside each numbered folder, create a 'Date' folder. Inside each 'Date' folder, create a folder named (in format YYYYMMDD) for the date you want the randomization to begin. Inside each of those folders, put your mod's 'data' folder.

Inside each 'data' folder would be a different variant of the mod's files. I assume this would be a 'Library' folder with one variation of the .dat file involved, but you get the general idea.

This would be the setup if the only thing you are randomizing with Commander is this one mod.

I´ll make a test, too. Thanks, Frau Kaleun.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Wreford-Brown]

Date based:
http://www.mediafire.com/?giueaygwiugy7ja

Random:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wwvsl7mm2euz2wv

Let's see what happens!

[Magic1111]

Date based:
http://www.mediafire.com/?giueaygwiugy7ja

Random:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wwvsl7mm2euz2wv

Let's see what happens!

Hi WB !

Very interesting, but one question: Should we use / activate both MODs in SH3-Commander together or only one of them ? :hmmm:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[frau kaleun]

Hi WB !

Very interesting, but one question: Should we use / activate both MODs in SH3-Commander together or only one of them ? :hmmm:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

If WB worked it the way that was discussed upthread, it should be only one.

The Random version will randomize the disturbance values, so they are subject to change every time you load the game.

The Date-based version will vary them by date to correspond to improving Allied technology and tactics. It won't be random, the disturbances will create (I assume) more of an advantage for you early in the war, but less so as time goes on and Allied ASW gets better.

[Fish In The Water]

Date based:
http://www.mediafire.com/?giueaygwiugy7ja

Random:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wwvsl7mm2euz2wv

Let's see what happens!

:haha: Sounds like it's going to be an adventure...

Hopefully she'll pass the trials with flying colors!

[slipper]

Thanks a lot WB :)

Really good of you to take the time to configure this for SH3, hopefully all will work ok. And thanks also tor TDW for making this brilliant mod in the first place.

regards

slipper

[frau kaleun]

Yes, thank you to TDW for the mod and WB for doing the grunt work of setting it up to work with Commander. I'm going to try the date-based version when I go out again!

[Wreford-Brown]

The thanks need to go to TDW :salute:
He created this little masterpiece that was one of the few pieces of realism that was still missing from the game.

[frau kaleun]

The thanks need to go to TDW :salute:
He created this little masterpiece that was one of the few pieces of realism that was still missing from the game.

The funny thing is that so many of us have been playing the game like it was there all along. :doh: :haha:

[Fish In The Water]

The thanks need to go to TDW :salute:
He created this little masterpiece that was one of the few pieces of realism that was still missing from the game.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Major props to TDW! Well done and well deserved!! :salute:

[Magic1111]

If WB worked it the way that was discussed upthread, it should be only one.

The Random version will randomize the disturbance values, so they are subject to change every time you load the game.

The Date-based version will vary them by date to correspond to improving Allied technology and tactics. It won't be random, the disturbances will create (I assume) more of an advantage for you early in the war, but less so as time goes on and Allied ASW gets better.

Thanks for clearify this ! :up:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[fitzcarraldo]

Date based:
http://www.mediafire.com/?giueaygwiugy7ja

Random:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wwvsl7mm2euz2wv

Let's see what happens!

Great, WB! I´ll try it today!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Fish In The Water]

The Date-based version will vary them by date to correspond to improving Allied technology and tactics. It won't be random, the disturbances will create (I assume) more of an advantage for you early in the war, but less so as time goes on and Allied ASW gets better.

Haven't checked the second post, but the actual 'stats' on the initial date-based mod were as follows:

1939.08.01
life_time = 45.0
surface = 350.0
noise = 0.5

1942.05.01
life_time = 30.0
surface = 250.0
noise = 0.5

1943.04.01
life_time = 20.0
surface = 150.0
noise = 0.5

1943.09.01
life_time = 10.0
surface = 50.0
noise = 0.5

Should still be accurate, provided WB hasn't adjusted in the interim.

[h.sie]

For those who already use the Random folder of Sh3Cmdr for other mods:
Date dependency of this mod can also be done using SH3-Commanders Randomised events.cfg:

[0:data\Library\TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3.d at]
ApplyToPeriod=19390101|19420431
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=0
0_x15E=45.0 ; Life Time
0_x16E=350.0 ; Surface
0_x17C=0.5 ; Noise

[1:data\Library\TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3.d at]
ApplyToPeriod=19420501|19430331
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=0
0_x15E=30.0 ; Life Time
0_x16E=250.0 ; Surface
0_x17C=0.5 ; Noise

[2:data\Library\TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3.d at]
ApplyToPeriod=19430401|19430831
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=0
0_x15E=20.0 ; Life Time
0_x16E=150.0 ; Surface
0_x17C=0.5 ; Noise

[3:data\Library\TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3.d at]
ApplyToPeriod=19430901|19451231
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=0
0_x15E=10.0 ; Life Time
0_x16E=50.0 ; Surface
0_x17C=0.5 ; Noise

@TDW: Thanks for this great addition

h.sie

[slipper]

Hi all,

Just one last question, with regards the random version of WB's SH3 Cmdr files.
If i wanted to add an option with the default GWX 3.0 depth charge effects, that we have all been playing with untill recently. Would it be as simple as adding one more numbered folder in the random folder, with the same file structure but no dat file?

Would SH3Cmdr then sometimes pick this folder and revert to default settings as no dat file would be found?

thanks again

regards

slipper

[frau kaleun]

Hi all,

Just one last question, with regards the random version of WB's SH3 Cmdr files.
If i wanted to add an option with the default GWX 3.0 depth charge effects, that we have all been playing with untill recently. Would it be as simple as adding one more numbered folder in the random folder, with the same file structure but no dat file?

Would SH3Cmdr then sometimes pick this folder and revert to default settings as no dat file would be found?

thanks again

regards

slipper

It's my understanding that the data sets in every numbered folder within the Random directory must match up - that is, there must the same number of files and folders with the same names in the same places in the structure. You can have different versions of the same files, but you couldn't just leave them out entirely.

If that's correct, any additional folder would have to have the same structure and files as all the others, i.e. you would need a .dat file in it, presumably with the same name as the one in TDW's mod. Since his .dat file appears to create the effect, rather than alter the values for something that's already there, I'm not sure how you'd create a version of it with the values for the "GWX" effect when the effect didn't exist in GWX to begin with. :hmmm:

The file in this mod isn't overwriting anything that was already there, it's adding a completely new file to the game... so there is no default GWX version of the file to fall back on. I suppose it might be possible to have a version of the file that created absolutely zero effects from depth charge disturbances... that would be a question for TDW to answer.

[makman94]

FANTASTIC mod TDW !!!!!! :yeah:

what a big 'surprise' when i read the OP ! is it only me that i have the feeling that mods like this ( and the ones from H.Sie-Stiebler ) are opening the new 'age' on sh3's modding ??
one major thing that is missing from sh3 is the 'clever' AI (i mean...to get rid of this 'stupid' zig-zag on their main course without changing course at all).TDW,you think that there is something that can be done on this area ??

@TDW : congratulations also for your mod with the ship's damage by fire :up:
when you want...you are a real 'storm' in modding ! sh3 ....definetely 'miss' you

[Chubster]

Hi WB !

Very interesting, but one question: Should we use / activate both MODs in SH3-Commander together or only one of them ? :hmmm:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

Ok at the risk of getting flamed here....what am I missing. I keep seeing references of installing mods via SH£ Commander - How do I do that then ?

No mention of it in its manual ?

[frau kaleun]

The Date, Flotilla, Uboat, and Random folders included in your Commander installation can be used to make Commander enable mods into your game based on the in-game date, the flotilla you're in, the boat you're playing, or at random.

If you make a folder in the Date folder and name it 19410101, for instance, and then put a mod's 'data' folder in it, Commander will write that mod's files into your game when the game is launched but only if the in-game date is on or after Jan 1 1941.

The Random function is a little more complicated to set up, but it can be used to enable different versions of the same mod or file into the game at random every time you launch SH3.

It's referred to, albeit briefly, on page 19 of the Commander user guide. :yep:

[slipper]

Could someone please suggest a program to open the dat files with please? i would like to try adjusting a few values for myself just as a trial if possible.

regards

slipper

[Fish In The Water]

Could someone please suggest a program to open the dat files with please? i would like to try adjusting a few values for myself just as a trial if possible.

regards

slipper

S3D - Silent 3ditor

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119571

Or, if the link isn't working there, you should be able to get it from the 'download' section of his homepage:

http://s3d.skwas.com/

Have fun! :DL

[slipper]

Thanks a lot, much appreciated :)

regards

slipper

[LGN1]

Hi,

I made some small tests and it seems to me that the mod is not fully working as intended. It would be great if someone could try to confirm my findings to figure out whether it's a problem with my installation or with the mod.

I took a single Black Swan without any ASDIC and put it in the campaign SRC file. Then I started a campaign and closed to 1000m to the Black Swan without being detected (with silent running the Black Swan does not detect you). I increased my speed to full ahead and the Black Swan started to attack me. After the first depth charges, I turned on silent running again (became 'invisible' again), and started my stop watch. Exactly after the 'Lost contact time' in sim.cfg the Black Swan stopped searching although I set the lifetime of the 'Bold' to 10min and the last depth charges exploded only 3min before (I set the lost contact time to 10min, too). :06:

From testing a real bold with noise I know that the Black Swan reacts to the noise setting.

After turning on the bubbles in the mod, I saw that they vanish quite quickly, although the bubbles from a 'real' bold stay for the whole lifetime of the bold.

My suspicion is that the lifetime of the 'depth-charge' bold is somehow determined by the lifetime of the effect in particles.dat that spawns the bold :hmmm:

Anyway, it would be great if someone else could confirm these findings and if true, I hope we can improve this excellent work from TDW!

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

Hi again,

I did some further testing. By increasing the life time of the 'bold-spawning' effect in particles.dat, I could force the 'bold' bubbles to stay for several minutes. However, I still could not observe any difference in the behavior of the Black Swan :06: It seems to me that the created 'bold' does not work properly :-?

Can anyone describe a test/set-up where you can observe a clear difference between using the mod and not using it?

I get the feeling that Rubini's comment in the 'ship damaged by fire' thread is still the problem:


... Later I understood why/the sutil difference: Sh3 manage differentely objects that are made for player use (torpedos and bolds are good example) in contrast with others objects like bombs, DC, etc.

In others words, a full working virtual torpedo or a full working virtual bold are both yet impossible to we handle without SDK.

So, no dice with DC making noise/disturbance until now!:damn:



Cheers, LGN1

[Rubini]

Hi LGN1,

I made that commentary because that time I tried a similar approach that TDW made but without success - i get CTD in truth.

TDW approach fixed the CTD problems and in my tests (they were not a deep tests, I need to say this) seems that the mod works. It´s difficult to test (it´s a bit subjective the measurement of success on this particular mod) because the DD/AI behaviour is also influenced by others factors.

What I could observe is that with that settings that I suggested posts above it´s a bit more easy to see the results. But by the exposed above i´m not sure, perhaps others factors were influenced my results.

The noise setting on the mod is a good point to investiagte too. On the sh3 files its =0, we are trying to set it to =0,5 but I guess that nobody have sure if it works or not yet. If i have new inputs on the matter I will post here.:hmmm:

And just to comment: the damage by fire mod really works, I have tested it a lot and it´s flawless and totally customizable by the player.:up:

PS: I always tested the dc/bold mod with the u505 SM where we have a lot od DCs and DDs over you. Perhaps the disturbance is too small to affect a only one DD behaviour with only few DCs exploding over you?

[TheDarkWraith]

If you really want to see if it's working or not (and it is) set the size to some ridiculously large value and set the time to some ridiculously large value.

[Wreford-Brown]

If you really want to see if it's working or not (and it is) set the size to some ridiculously large value and set the time to some ridiculously large value.

And test it in 1945 when DD's are all over you like a rash!

I'm happy that it works and very grateful to TDW for creating this mod.

[LGN1]

Hi all,

thanks for replying!



It´s difficult to test (it´s a bit subjective the measurement of success on this particular mod) because the DD/AI behaviour is also influenced by others factors.

The noise setting on the mod is a good point to investiagte too. On the sh3 files its =0, we are trying to set it to =0,5 but I guess that nobody have sure if it works or not yet. If i have new inputs on the matter I will post here.:hmmm:

And just to comment: the damage by fire mod really works, I have tested it a lot and it´s flawless and totally customizable by the player.:up:


Because it seems to be quite subjective I would like to have a definite test set-up to find good parameters. I tested a non-zero noise on a regular bold and it works fine.

I do not doubt that the damage by fire mod works. However, as far as I know it does not use any object only used by the player (like a bold and torpedo).

If you really want to see if it's working or not (and it is) set the size to some ridiculously large value and set the time to some ridiculously large value.

I did that and could not see any effect. The 'new' bold definitely works differently from a 'real' bold. Could you please give an exact set-up in which I can see/reproduce that it's working. I do not want to 'attack' your work in any way, I'm glad about what you achieved so far. However, I think it still needs work.

And test it in 1945 when DD's are all over you like a rash!

I'm happy that it works and very grateful to TDW for creating this mod.

Again, please describe a clear situation where you can observe a reproduceable difference with and without the mod. Not just 'it feels differently' or 'I ran a mission once and observed...'

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

Hi,

as recommended by TDW, I tried the U505 mission with noise=10000, lifetime=60, and surface=10000. Even with these settings, I couldn't see any obvious effect. Although the escorts dropped many depth-charges they always knew where I was :-?

After adding 'bold bubbles', I observed again that they vanished after a few seconds.

Can anyone confirm this? Or am I the only one testing this mod/trying to find out good parameters :06:

Cheers, LGN1

[Rubini]

Hi,

as recommended by TDW, I tried the U505 mission with noise=10000, lifetime=60, and surface=10000. Even with these settings, I couldn't see any obvious effect. Although the escorts dropped many depth-charges they always knew where I was :-?

After adding 'bold bubbles', I observed again that they vanished after a few seconds.

Can anyone confirm this? Or am I the only one testing this mod/trying to find out good parameters :06:

Cheers, LGN1

I'm playing the hole game again since 1939:DL (well, I'm at middle 1940 now)...when I enter 1943 and above I will have more time to test the matter. Then I will post my finds here.:up:

[Wreford-Brown]

Hi,

as recommended by TDW, I tried the U505 mission with noise=10000, lifetime=60, and surface=10000. Even with these settings, I couldn't see any obvious effect. Although the escorts dropped many depth-charges they always knew where I was :-?

After adding 'bold bubbles', I observed again that they vanished after a few seconds.

Can anyone confirm this? Or am I the only one testing this mod/trying to find out good parameters :06:

Cheers, LGN1

I'm definitely not doubting what you're saying, but this is a mod that will need extensive testing by a large number of players before we'll have some verifyable stats as there are so many variables that effect how DDs hunt.

The parameters you set would have created a bold effect that was 10km wide for an hour and the escorts could have been dropping into that 10km bubble (which just happened to be on top of you) or maybe the bubble was just too wide, watering down the effect? I'm assuming that you were using your usual avoidance procedures (depth and direction changes) and the DDs were still tracking you.

When I've used TDWs stock settings and been hunted by DDs they have tended to drop depth charges behind me, where they originally dropped them. I'm assuming that they have detected the bold effect of their first drop and then continue to hammer the same area creating further bold effects.

I'm happy that the mod is working for me but will admit that there is a possibility that it is just a psychological advantage. As far as I'm concerned, even a psychological advantage is an advantage and given that TDWs other mods do exactly what they say on the tin I've got no reason to doubt this one.

I'm not conducting bespoke testing as I'm just trying to enjoy my career but I'll keep reporting in as I find other occasions where this mod either works or doesn't.

[LGN1]

Hi Rubini and Wreford-Brown!

thanks for your reply. I agree it's quite difficult to test something that is related to the AI behavior (a good example for this is that quite a few players thought that the depth-charge disturbance effect is modeled in stock SH3 although it's not). Because it's so difficult I tried to create/find a test set-up as clean as possible. In addition, I compared the behavior of a 'real' player's bold and the artificial ones.

My results so far are:

- A player's bold with the same parameters as the 'depth-charge bold' definitely influences the AI differently. At least in the simple/clean set-ups I tested. It might be different in more complex situations, but I don't see why this should be.

- I tested a wide range of different parameter values for the 'depth-charge bold' (even a 'ridiculously large value' as TDW recommended) and did not observe any difference.

Although these observations are no proof, I think they are a quite strong indications that something is still missing (especially if one takes into account the older observations that spawning 'player items' like torpedoes,... is not straight-forward). Maybe a good test would be to spawn torpedoes via TDW's method and see how they behave :hmmm:

Anyway, I will continue testing and hope that some else also runs some tests and proves that I'm wrong. I really would like to have depth-charge water disturbances.

Cheers, LGN1

[reignofdeath]

Hi Rubini and Wreford-Brown!

thanks for your reply. I agree it's quite difficult to test something that is related to the AI behavior (a good example for this is that quite a few players thought that the depth-charge disturbance effect is modeled in stock SH3 although it's not). Because it's so difficult I tried to create/find a test set-up as clean as possible. In addition, I compared the behavior of a 'real' player's bold and the artificial ones.

My results so far are:

- A player's bold with the same parameters as the 'depth-charge bold' definitely influences the AI differently. At least in the simple/clean set-ups I tested. It might be different in more complex situations, but I don't see why this should be.

- I tested a wide range of different parameter values for the 'depth-charge bold' (even a 'ridiculously large value' as TDW recommended) and did not observe any difference.

Although these observations are no proof, I think they are a quite strong indications that something is still missing (especially if one takes into account the older observations that spawning 'player items' like torpedoes,... is not straight-forward). Maybe a good test would be to spawn torpedoes via TDW's method and see how they behave :hmmm:

Anyway, I will continue testing and hope that some else also runs some tests and proves that I'm wrong. I really would like to have depth-charge water disturbances.

Cheers, LGN1

So this means Ive been going to flank speed until the last Depth Charge explodes for nothing? :( And all this time I thought they couldn't hear me :hmmm:

[Fish In The Water]

So this means Ive been going to flank speed until the last Depth Charge explodes for nothing? :( And all this time I thought they couldn't hear me :hmmm:

No need to feel bad, we've all been doing it for years...

Fool me once shame on SH3, fool me twice shame on me.

[reignofdeath]

Well I do think the explosions make them "Deaf" for a certain time period, as just as the run does, but the 45 second disturbance on the other hand doesn't happen.

Speaking of doesn't, (Sorry this is OT but just sparked my interest), is it me, or does doesn't seem like a useless abbreviation, especially in writing. I mean all you do is cut out a space and turn a O into a dash... sorry :yeah:

[Reece]

Speaking of doesn't, (Sorry this is OT but just sparked my interest), is it me, or does doesn't seem like a useless abbreviation, especially in writing. I mean all you do is cut out a space and turn a O into a dash... sorry :yeah:
It's simply that the sound of the word is shorter, in a written sentence it is not much shorter as you point out, for example:
"It doesn't matter" sounds better in speech than "It does not matter".:yep:

[Wreford-Brown]

It's simply that the sound of the word is shorter, in a written sentence it is not much shorter as you point out, for example:
"It doesn't matter" sounds better in speech than "It does not matter".:yep:

And don't forget the extra effort needed to hit the space bar between 'does' and 'not'...

[irish1958]

There is a difference in (American) English.
Contractions are not stylistically acceptable in formal writing, but are acceptable in informal writings such as personal letters, newspaper articles, novels, etc.
They are also acceptable in most speech instances.
The contraction is also the common form in speech; if one uses the full form it is to add emphasis to the statement.
For example, if my wife says "You can't watch football today because you need to clean out the garage" I know that there is wiggle room.:hmmm: If she says "You can not watch football" I know we are in for a dustup. :damn:

[Fish In The Water]

What's this?

It appears work has begun on an English mod... Cool! :cool:

[LGN1]

Shouldn' it be 'cannot' and not 'can not' :hmmm:

A third variant, 'do not', 'don't', and 'donot' :D

[King_Zog]

There is a difference in (American) English.
Contractions are not stylistically acceptable in formal writing, but are acceptable in informal writings such as personal letters, newspaper articles, novels, etc.
They are also acceptable in most speech instances.
The contraction is also the common form in speech; if one uses the full form it is to add emphasis to the statement.
For example, if my wife says "You can't watch football today because you need to clean out the garage" I know that there is wiggle room.:hmmm: If she says "You can not watch football" I know we are in for a dustup. :damn:

This is also the same in British English. Contractions are not considered appropriate for formal writing.

As for 'can not' and 'cannot', there is a difference in emphasis.

e.g. 'I cannot play football today because I am too tired'
'I can not play football, because I am terrible at sport'

'I cannot have a drink tonight because I am driving'
'I can not drink because I am an alcoholic'

[Madox58]

What's this?

It appears work has begun on an English mod... Cool! :cool:

I can't begin to follow all the verbage stuff.
Makes my head hurt!
:nope:

[irish1958]

This is also the same in British English. Contractions are not considered appropriate for formal writing.

As for 'can not' and 'cannot', there is a difference in emphasis.

e.g. 'I cannot play football today because I am too tired'
'I can not play football, because I am terrible at sport'

'I cannot have a drink tonight because I am driving'
'I can not drink because I am an alcoholic'
Exactly right. If she distinctly says two words, I know I am in trouble.

[GOZO]

Is the disturbance mod avaliable for SHIV and if so on the Subsim downloads section?:hmmm:

Regards

Gozo

[gugu85]

Hi guys, does the download link 403 - Forbidden only to me?
Do I have to register on Gamefront to download the file?

Thanks

Edit: sorry, wrong topic, I'm looking for the SH5 version of the file, but it says 403 - Forbidden too :)

[HW3]

Welcome Aboard!

Try looking in the download section here on SubSim for the file. There is a button to take you there near the top of the page.

[Atoka220]

Link is down :/\\!!

[Plissken_04]

Link is down :/\\!!



ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/THE%20DARK%20WRAITH/TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3.7z

Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

[gi_dan2987]

Gentlemen, I apologize if I did not read this in an earlier post. How do I adjust the values of the disturbance parameters?

[Madox58]

Gentlemen, I apologize if I did not read this in an earlier post. How do I adjust the values of the disturbance parameters?

Download S3D and open the file.
You'll need to play with the values till you understand what is going on but that's how everyone learns.
:yep:

[GreyBeard]

I've tried to run this mod about a half a dozen times and I always get a ctd when loading a game save, usually the 2nd save. I'm very careful about game saves too, no land nearby (at least 55km distance), no visuals, nothing on sound at depth. Don't know what to do to correct it.

[BigWalleye]

Greybeard, I have had the same experience. It was part of the problem discussed in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=205755

I hesitate to fault the mod, since 1) it is TDW's work, and I know that he is thorough and conscientious, and 2) there is evidence on SubSim that lots of people use this mod and only a few report problems. But I am pretty sure that something in the mod conflicts with something in my setup. Honestly, though, I have never tried to pin down the problem any further. I just don't use the mod. A pity, too, since, like all TDW mods, it's a big improvement. But I was so happy just to get my game back to a playable state that I haven't done any further troubleshooting. (This mod wasn't my only problem!)

[GreyBeard]

......... I am pretty sure that something in the mod conflicts with something in my setup........

My thoughts exactly. Presently I was on my 4th patrol with no problems. Returned to port, installed the Water D. Mod, proceeded on my 5th patrol, made a save and exit, reloaded the save okay, then encountered and sank 2 ships, save and exit, ctd on reload. I get to the point of loading where the game says "Not so long ago......" I suspect the only way to find the conflict would be to install in reverse. SH3, GWX, TDW Water Disturbance and no other mods. Then start a campaign to see what results and so forth and so forth, one mod at a time. Hmmm........sounds time intensive.......first I must procrasinate some more. :D

[flag4]

At the rate cool stuff is being released lately, I may never get out of base again.

"Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in..." :haha:

:up:

[GreyBeard]

That didn't take long. I keep an installed copy of SH3 with the cracked 1.4 version of the executable in place on a DVD, ready for use. I copied that to a file, installed GWX 3.0 from a fresh download of it and enabled one mod, TDW's Water Disturbance. I then started a career. I departed Wilhelmshaven, arrived at my assigned patrol grid BF16 and then performed a proper save and exit, no visuals, no sounds, greater than 55km from land, last screen F2. CTD on reload, seconds after seeing "Not so long ago..." This is what came up on the error message:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: sh3.exe
Application Version: 1.4.0.1
Application Timestamp: 00000000
Fault Module Name: sh3.exe
Fault Module Version: 1.4.0.1
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000b82a4
OS Version: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 71b2
Additional Information 2: d67447db3d751ecbf60cd906060deaa4
Additional Information 3: 7a25
Additional Information 4: 48652f378e7f3e13e5f640531da3151d

I don't know what all that stuff means. Anyone else?

[ohmygollygosh]

I have exactly the same problem with this mod. All saved games fail to load if (and only if) a ship is sunk on patrol. Shooting down aircraft doesn't seem to matter as saved games load fine. The effect is the same regardless of mod. I've tried stock with just this mod, GWX & LSH using Windows 7 and Windows XP(on the same duel boot pc).
I can't fault a mod which works on other machines for other people. I'm just unlucky with my hardware/software and lack of ability in the geeky side of computing to fix my own problems.
If suggest you don't try altering your mod soup bit by bit to nail the conflict. Save a lot time and run a test with just stock1.4 and this mod only.

[GreyBeard]

...All saved games fail to load if (and only if) a ship is sunk on patrol.....

I didn't even have to sink a ship this last time out.

If suggest you don't try altering your mod soup bit by bit to nail the conflict. Save a lot time and run a test with just stock1.4 and this mod only.

Did you read my post # 144? Fresh install SH3, GWX, no other mods, CTD.

[Sailor Steve]

:up:
Unfortunately that was three years ago, and these days she apparently doesn't play any SH at all, having given in fully to her addiction to Skyrim. :cry:

[Stiebler]

CTDs caused by this mod are old news.

For example:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1651214&postcount=104

Stiebler.

[GreyBeard]

CTDs caused by this mod are old news.

For example:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1651214&postcount=104

Stiebler.

That sounds like you are saying that no one knows how to fix it, correct? In which case I will simply drop the matter and continue SH3 without the mod.

[ohmygollygosh]

I didn't even have to sink a ship this last time out.



Did you read my post # 144? Fresh install SH3, GWX, no other mods, CTD.

Sorry GreyBeard. I didn't see your last post before I finished replying to an earlier one. It seems that this mod effect different systems in slightly different ways.

[suitednate]

I am getting CTDs with this mod as well it appears. Has there never been a fix to the problem for this?

[fitzcarraldo]

In SH4 it works fine but in my SH3 GWX causes CTDs.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[suitednate]

Thanks for the reply. I am playing GWX as well and i get CTD on reloading save games with this. What a bummer too.m As it is kind of important in regard to tactics. I was using the tactic of going to full speed as the depth charges exploded before I even learned about this mod. Now i know they heard me all along and i cant do anything about it cause of the CTDing. :down:

[Fahnenbohn]

Errr..... excuse me, but.......... this mod doesn't work at all !!! My indicator is always red after DC... :down:

[Plague]

I'm not able to download the mod.
Is the link broken or the mod no more available?

[BigWalleye]

I'm not able to download the mod.
Is the link broken or the mod no more available?

There certainly is a lively and interesting discussion currently going on about it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=217659

It looks like the mod may have been taken down. I was about to point you to Plissken's, but TDW's work isn't on that site either. (Prolly because he mostly focuses on SH5.)

[Jeff-Groves]

Yes it is.
Just look under his old name here.
RacerBoy.

[BigWalleye]

Yes it is.
Just look under his old name here.
RacerBoy.

Are you serious?

Yep! You are! Checked at Plissken's and there it was: RacerBoy (The Dark Wraith). Laughed so hard I swallowed my teeth!

And, yes, Plague, TDW's DC Water Disturbance mod is there.

[Jeff-Groves]

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3000/86d67/products/5956/images/4641/s9533_ImNotAlwaysRight_RED_CRM__66227.1405347324.6 00.600.jpg?c=2

:haha:

[Plague]

There certainly is a lively and interesting discussion currently going on about it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=217659


yes, It's very interesting and I first read that, then I looked for this mod to try it.



And, yes, Plague, TDW's DC Water Disturbance mod is there.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I searched all sections of the forum but I couldn't find any reference. Maybe should I PM TDW to ask him?

[jaxa]

Hmm, is this the same problem with version for SH3 Commander?

[jonny_bass26]

I had this mod for a previous install of SH3, loved it...having recently reinstalled SH3 (new pc :-) ), I went to download it again - but the link provided appears to be directing me to escapistmagazine.com, more than a tad aggravating! lol. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong, or where else I might find this (very handy) mod? Ta very much :-)

To be clear, the link I'm on about is this one: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20143...ce_v4_0_SH3_7z (http://www.gamefront.com/files/20143730/TDW_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3_7z)

[ivanov.ruslan]

Hi,try here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171019&page=25

Folder Racerboy

[jonny_bass26]

Mate, you're a lifesaver. Thanks!! :-)

[Schmonzo]

Is this compatible with nygm?

[fitzcarraldo]

As told in various posts in this thread, this mod causes problems (CTD) with SH3 (not in SH4).

My experience with SH3 GWX is the mod causes CTDs.

I don´t know how works with others supermods.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Stiebler]

The mod causes CTDs with NYGM.

[Schmonzo]

The mod causes CTDs with NYGM.
thanks stiebler

[Haukka81]

-edit- wrong thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Niume]

Uhm can I use this mod with wac and How Do i tweak file its .dat file ??

[Haukka81]

This may not even work, no test has proven this so far.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ValoWay]

ye, would be an awesome addition to WAC 5.0. Sadly, I never managed to make this mod work.. :k_confused:

[Anvar1061]

You did not try to write to the author a private message?

[schlechter pfennig]

ye, would be an awesome addition to WAC 5.0. Sadly, I never managed to make this mod work.. :k_confused:

I have created a mod that works with WAC 5.0. See:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2542103&postcount=1