So, what would you do?

[maillemaker]

So I've been playing "dead is dead" for a while now. Each time I die I start over in 1939. This is the longest I have survived - it is now December 1942.

I was patrolling south of the Rockall Banks, when, at night, I detected radar signals. As luck would have it, it was a task force - probably a sub-hunting group - 4 Clemson class destroyers and a central Bogue class carrier. I wanted that carrier.

I moved in to intercept, they were coming nearly right for me, so it was easy.

I launched 3 eels at the carrier from about 700 meters. All three hit, and down she went. Now, however, I had 4 Clemson destroyers very annoyed with me.

I dove down to 160 meters. Dodged and dodged, tossed some decoys, nothing worked. They were taking turns at me. So I pushed down to 200 meters. Still no luck evading.

So finally, I had enough. I secured from silent running, and ordered my crew to load all the torpedo tubes. Then I shot at flank speed to periscope depth. I winged the first one, nailed him right on his nose, but he was not sinking. The rest were confused - they were crowding each other and a couple of them had slowed to nearly a stop. I was backing up, trying to edge closer to the one I had wounded and was dead in the water, when suddenly, I don't know what happened, either one of the destroyers near me suddenly saw me and gunned me or depth charged me but WHAM! Attack periscope destroyed, after batteries destroyed, and both diesel engines destroyed. And I'm flooding. And now I can only make 2-3 knots. I set my repair crew to work and blow ballast, struggling to get back up to periscope depth. Thankfully, no one depth charges me during all of this.

Flooding is secured, and the water is pumped out, and we crawl back to periscope depth. Somewhere during this time there is an explosion, and one of the destroyers sinks - it may have depth charged itself. Anyway I crawl to periscope depth, and put up the damaged observation scope. Bang! I nail one of the last two destroyers with a magnetic, using perfect lead in front of him as he swung around.

The last Clemson charged me, but none of his charges struck home, though they did push me a bit higher in the water, drawing some machine gun fire. He past over my stern, and turned to port. As he did, I also turned to port and full reverse. He cut across my bow at about 350 meters and I slid another magnetic right under his belly, setting her on fire from stem to stern.

It was almost exactly midnight, two hours after I sank the Bogue.

I order us to surface, which we did, but of course with both diesels out, we could go nowhere.

Ironically, a life boat from one of the destroyers paddled right up along side us. We were the victors, but we were in nearly the same sad shape as they were.

After our repair crews had a chance to work topside (both flak guns were destroyed, but they were able to repair the radio and radar detector), I radioed our status back to base. After about half an hour, they replied, saying "Continue the fight as fuel and armaments allow."

Now just recently I have turned exterior view back on - I had been playing at 100% up till that point. I just found that I really enjoyed watching the ships sink and burn and blow up and the game wasn't nearly as fun when you are limited to the views from the boat.

So I was able to "end mission" and "return to base", without abandoning my career.

Do you think I could justify this by saying that I broadcast my status, and perhaps another u-boat came along and rescued us?

Should I have to "buy" another u-boat at home, assuming we scuttled our old one at sea? Or would they have been able to tow us home, or help us repair our engines?

Steve

[Gereke]

I'd write the career off.

Mostly because I know that realistically, that scenario wouldn't have ended well in the U-boats favor. Real life Destroyer crews wouldn't pull some of the same bone-head moves that the AI in SH3 does... Namely line themselves up to be systematically sunk by a U-boat.

Only time I'd consider the "scuttle/rescue" option is if my diesels had been knocked out, yet I still managed to EVADE the destroyers. Again, realistically speaking being rescued would depend on if there was another U-boat operating close enough to pick you up before more enemy showed up. You have to take into consideration that you'd not be the only one to have thrown out an SOS.

[timmy41]

Regardless of the silly destroyers...
I guess you could justify it if you spent say a week or so out there and managed to survive in that condition, pretending that after that amount of time a returning U-boot would have picked up the crew.

[maillemaker]

I suspect we could have survived - we had plenty of compressed air and we could dive to periscope depth and wait. :)

Steve

[Kapt Z]

I'd write the career off.

Mostly because I know that realistically, that scenario wouldn't have ended well in the U-boats favor. Real life Destroyer crews wouldn't pull some of the same bone-head moves that the AI in SH3 does... Namely line themselves up to be systematically sunk by a U-boat.

Only time I'd consider the "scuttle/rescue" option is if my diesels had been knocked out, yet I still managed to EVADE the destroyers. Again, realistically speaking being rescued would depend on if there was another U-boat operating close enough to pick you up before more enemy showed up. You have to take into consideration that you'd not be the only one to have thrown out an SOS.

I agree. It's late '42 near the Rockall Banks. Within range of radar equipped aircraft. Assume that at least one of the destroyers got off a distress call. I think you'll have 'hostile' company arriving shortly.

I'd write the crew off as POWs.

[Herr-Berbunch]

To last until the end of '42 you've done very well. I'd now start a fresh career from that point with an inexperienced crew.

Good luck! :up:

[kapuhy]

Well, you have just sunk an aircraft carrier and four destroyers in enemy controlled waters - this is enough for Royal Navy to unleash all available assets in an epic pursuit that will make Hunt for the Bismarck look like a picnic. In real life even answering to your distress call would put any U-Boat in grave danger, for within short time entire area would crawl with aircraft and warships. Even if both you and the helping boat somehow escaped detection, how would you transfer crew from one boat to another in the middle of big naval operation of the enemy?

You might have had a slim chance before you surfaced in front of the British lifeboat - after that, they know you're still there and they won't let go.

[maillemaker]

I can certainly take care of the British lifeboat... :)

[Snestorm]

Considering that you already over employed a gamey destroyer elimination trick to erradicate yourself from the first mess, you might just as well pay the piper for the second mess.

You can bet with a carrier and 4 destroyers down the allies will have a lot of air and surface assets in the area. Might as well close that career as a POW, and start another.

Aircraft did that to one of my old careers.
No way home meant it was over.

[kapuhy]

I can certainly take care of the British lifeboat... :)

In your situation - I'd rather invite some British on board, distribute some food and blankets and generally be nice, since your best bet at survival is being picked up by one of incoming RN vessels.

Don't forget to toss Enigma machine and code books overboard before you do it, though.

[Tessa]

Despite your damage, BdU isn't going to just write you off since you're whole crew is alive, and the boat is still seaworthy (just with no propulsion - granted that's a major problem). Since it was just a Bogue carrier (not one of the large ones) sure the allies are going to be mad, but they suffered some intensely more sinkings than a carrier. When Churchill asked for 100 tanks to help in North Africa the tank and engines were shipped in 2 seperate ships. The tanks made it to their destination, but chance one captain sunk the one with the 100 engines on it. The money and strategic value (granted the German's had no clue they sank such an important ship) of that ship was enormous. Despite the priceless cargo in that convoy it didn't have the entire home fleet go after that one sub.

Long as your propeller shafts aren't bent beyond fixing on board you have a chance. You'd have the whole mechanical crew strip down both diesels and see if 1 of the block/chasis was intact enough to repair. Then go through both sets of parts and see what you can use and what you need to get at least 1 diesel going. If there was a supply ship nearby (even within a few hundred km's) another sub would likely be dispatched to pick up parts and drop them off on your boat; it isn't without precedence.

Get the diesel back online and set sail for the nearest friendly port that has repair facilities and parts. If you were stationed in Kiel for instance you'd likely head straight to either Brest or Wilhemshaven depending on your position just to get repairs; then head to your home base.

To reflect that in the game you can either have a null mission where you don't have a patrol area, just need to go to whichever port you would have stopped out, dock (in real time, don't actually exit the patrol), then head back home to simulate the time spend moving from base to base. Or you could modify your career files and add an extra 2 weeks or so to your patrol time.

[maillemaker]

Whew, thanks, Tessa!

I was sailing out of Lorient so I was probably only a day from home.

I really don't want to chuck the career since I didn't die. This is 32 patrols which represents at least 16 separate gaming sessions and perhaps 40 hours of game play.

I thought about submerging and seeing how far I could go on electrics. I bet I could have made it some ways at slow speed.



Steve

[desirableroasted]

So I was able to "end mission" and "return to base", without abandoning my career.

Do you think I could justify this by saying that I broadcast my status, and perhaps another u-boat came along and rescued us?

My first thought (and why I didn't respond) is that I think teleporting home -- especially from that far away -- is just as "wrong" as playing with unlimited fuel or torpedoes. Yeah, returning from Gib with 1 torpedo is a long, boring slog, but it has to be done.

But Tessa's response brings up some possibilities that would probably lead me to roll dice: a) what are the chances of fixing one engine? b) what are the chances of making it to a friendly port? c) etc. You sound pretty banged up, so I might roll and say 1 or 2 says I fix the engine, and on a 2nd roll, 1-2 says I can make it to a friendly port. That would give you an 11% chance of keeping the career.

Otherwise, it's Canadian POW camps for you, but you'll eat better in 1944 than anyone at home, so that's some consolation.

[Mittelwaechter]

Well, it depends on the weather I guess...

Your diesels a r e destroyed! You'll need help from BdU/nearest U-Boot. It will take a few days to arrive.

If you'll manage to survive for another 10 days you may be rescued. Surface and dive without engines 10 times and stay surfaced for 3 hours each turn to simulate the RAF and Navy efforts to find you.

If you survive - teleport back home and buy a new boat.

[ediko]

I had that happen too, except after my eels hit Bogue the destroyers just went on in their formation without it :haha:

If I was you, I would just continue to play. It looks like you have already decided for yourself, just continue and be more cautious next time.

[U777]

If the diesels are beyond repair without outside help and BdU cannot send help in time then I would broadcast in plain language for rescue, and then scuttle the boat after destroying the enigma and burning the code books. Getting the crew back to land alive is all that would matter to me as a commander.

[sharkbit]

I like the dice roll thing. The simplest would be to maybe assign a percentage of what you think the chance of rescue from friendly forces is and what the chances of being captured is and roll a couple of dice based on those percentages. Maybe have boxcars mean nobody came and you all starved to death. :dead:

Or do the wait for 10 days thing, rolling dice each day. On a 4(or something else) or less you are captured-game over. If baddies really do show, then I guess you don't need dice.

Interesting dilemma though-good luck! :salute:

:)

[VONHARRIS]

I agree with U777.
In that situation it is game over.
Been there and done that.

[Gargamel]

Honestly, I think it depends on how far you can get on just your electrics.

If your protracted battle drained your batteries, then you probably would have to scuttle. BUt if you could slip at least a dozen k away or so, that would be a start. That'd at least give you a chance to do the major repairs needed without alerting the inevitable RN rescue ships on the way. 25-30k And you're golden. As Tessa said, they would be able to fix these things.

Then, depending on the other circumstances involved, you could apply some game theory (ie rolling the dice). Weigh your chances being rescued by another u-boat, apply a percentage, then roll a die.

[maillemaker]

I'm pretty sure I could have puttered along on battery for a bit, though the aft battery was listed as "destroyed" and consequently the battery meter was down to like 30 percent. We had nearly a full charge before that.

I don't know how hard it was to maintain depth without moving, but we had a full tank of compressed air so we could have gone to periscope depth and hovered, motionless, while waiting for rescue.

Steve

[Gargamel]

I'm pretty sure I could have puttered along on battery for a bit, though the aft battery was listed as "destroyed" and consequently the battery meter was down to like 30 percent. We had nearly a full charge before that.

I don't know how hard it was to maintain depth without moving, but we had a full tank of compressed air so we could have gone to periscope depth and hovered, motionless, while waiting for rescue.

Steve

Ahhhh.. but it would never have arrived. Your rescuers would have been another U-boat most likely (Unless you were in the North Sea, but they wouldn't have a carrier there would they?). Hovering motionless, they would have to literally run into you to find you. I don't know historical detection ranges for a motionless periscope breaking the surface, but I know I can get within 1km of merchants at times without them ever seeing my scope, and that's moving. I'm pretty sure you'd have to be almost point blank to see another boats scope through a scope. The other U-boat would be hard pressed to search for you on the surface given the known amount of SAR and ASUW resources the RN would have deployed to that area.

Even if they sent Aircraft out after you, you'll be hard pressed to ID them through the scope, and I'm pretty damn sure you won't pop up to check.

A surface vessel would be your only hope of rescue if you were hovering. You could ID them, pop up and get a tow. But unless you were within spitting distance of any of the Reich's bases, I doubt you'll find any help there. Because, again, the RN assets enroute would negate any surface vessels the KM sent.

As we've said before, play the game as you want, it's your game. But you've asked for opinions, and this is a good thought exercise. It's a good place to play devil's advocate.

Let's assume it would take up to 3 days to be rescued. Take a die, roll it, divide by 2, round up. Limp away as far as you can, surface, send out a status report. Now stay surfaced under decent TC until that many days as you rolled have passed and you haven't been sunk. With your compressed air intact, you should be able to hover/dive/surface for that period to avoid RN assets. After that time period is passed, assume you have been rescued or repaired, and then warp back home.

I wish the game modeled long term repairs like Tessa mentioned. That would add a realism element to the game in this regard that would make it all that more enjoyable.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know how hard it was to maintain depth without moving,
Pretty much impossible. Modern subs can do it, but they have computers controlling all the functions. WW2 subs leaked, so even with perfect trim the boat would start to sink withing a few hours, if not minutes. The balance for this was to maintain a slight positive bouyancy and use the dive planes to maintain depth, but then as soon as you stopped moving the boat would start to rise. This was preferable to sinking, but it's still not "hovering".

[maillemaker]

Ahhhh.. but it would never have arrived. Your rescuers would have been another U-boat most likely (Unless you were in the North Sea, but they wouldn't have a carrier there would they?). Hovering motionless, they would have to literally run into you to find you.

Well of course we would not stay submerged. I was thinking more like we radio in and find out when the rescue ship would be in the area, and then submerge and wait until that time, and surface.

But it doesn't sound like we could have submerged and stayed down without using up our batteries to move.

[CherryHarbey]

I suffered similar damage (no surface power) and I initially went for the teleport option but after sleeping on it changed my mind. The odds of rescue were just too slim for me, so I loaded up an earlier save, sent her to the bottom and changed my status to Surrendered at Sea with Commander.

[gazpode_l]

MY REPLY IS SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC - SoRrY! :shifty:

I wish the game modeled long term repairs like Tessa mentioned. That would add a realism element to the game in this regard that would make it all that more enjoyable.

It seems like commander does this sort of thing to a fashion...my last two moorings have resulted in a month's shore-leave at a time AND i've got "days in base" checked and set to ten, to simulate small repairs, re-supplying and shore-leave for my crew..

[Gargamel]

MY REPLY IS SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC - SoRrY! :shifty:



It seems like commander does this sort of thing to a fashion...my last two moorings have resulted in a month's shore-leave at a time AND i've got "days in base" checked and set to ten, to simulate small repairs, re-supplying and shore-leave for my crew..


No, I meant while at sea. There would be battel damage repair, then under way overhauling. Like tearing down a diesel for 2 days and then rebuilding it. So you could fix catastrophic damage during a patrol, enabling you to return to base.