Egypt-Inspired Protests Spread to Libya

[Gerald]

CAIRO – Hundreds of Libyans calling for the government's ouster clashed with security forces firing rubber bullets and water cannons early Wednesday in the country's second-largest city as Egypt-inspired unrest spread to the country long ruled by Moammar Qaddafi.

The protest in Benghazi was triggered by the arrest Tuesday of a Libyan activist but quickly took on an anti-government tone, witnesses and activists said. The protest was relatively small in size, but it signaled anti-government activists have been emboldened by the recent wave of uprisings.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/16/anti-government-protests-spread-libya/


Note: Published February 16, 2011

[Krauter]

About damn time.

[Sailor Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfhk2WxfV2c

[August]

Egypt-inspired unrestPoor Tunisians, :cry: They can't get no respect! :DL

[Betonov]

We'll have to watch this one closely, Slovenian companies have contracts worth billions in Lybia, mostly construction

[TLAM Strike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfhk2WxfV2c
I was thinking more along the lines of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJcg-g1pg

[Jimbuna]

Poetic justice.

[krashkart]

Buh-bye Kuh-daffy. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

I was thinking more along the lines of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJcg-g1pg
Well, there's that too. :sunny:

[Rockstar]

This region is tuning into a greater Islamic Republic right before your eyes and all that can be said 'about time'? Talk about sheep lead to the slaughter.

[August]

This region is tuning into a greater Islamic Republic right before your eyes and all that can be said 'about time'? Talk about sheep lead to the slaughter.


So I gather you don't believe that those people deserve self determination?

[Krauter]

Or that the world needs to get rid of another dictator who's too stupid to actually believe he's fooling the international community?

[Rockstar]

I suppose by your responses you two actually believe Islam is a peaceful religion too. Just look at Iran and you can feel the love can't you? Wasn't there someone on another post who told you oh don't worry Egypt is safe from Muslim Brotherhood he boasted they would need 60% of population to back them. Did you know that there are close to 54 million Muslims out a population of some 90 million in Egypt? Go right ahead and keep thinking these are just brave young students shouting slogans for freedom and democracy. :har:

Meanwhile back in the world of reality, Egypt's new ruling military council has appointed an Islamist judge to head the committee drawing up a new constitution.

[Tribesman]

Meanwhile back in the world of reality, Egypt's new ruling military council has appointed an Islamist judge to head the committee drawing up a new constitution.
In the real world how is there as "islamist" judge still in office after 30 years of a dictator clearing out the judiciary?

[Krauter]

Meanwhile back in the world of reality, Egypt's new ruling military council has appointed an Islamist judge to head the committee drawing up a new constitution.

Meanwhile on how to sound like an ass hole :shifty:

First off, am I not entitled to my own opinion without someone making me seem like an idiot?

Of course I know that people in power in Iran (I'm sure if they were Christians or Jews they'd still be a$$holes) are Muslim. Of course I know that Islams "cause" is to convert forcefully or peacefully, the people of the world to Islam (had that hurled at my head in another thread).

Your point?

But is it not logical to cheer these peoples in their attempts to rid themselves of a maniacal dictator?

If not then I think you need to get back to reality :nope:

Krauter

[Tribesman]

Your point?


His point was mainly nonsense.
Its a retired former supreme court judge heading a commitee of 3 current judges 3 constitutional lawyers and one member of parliament and they are not drawing up a new constitution. They are dealing with a small number of amendments that were introduced as emergency legislation mainly transferred powers to Mubbarak, changed term limits, nominations for elections and freedom of information.

There will at a later date be another committee formed to draw up a new constitution which will then have to be put to a referendum.

Wierd isn't it, somehow it just doesn't sound as scary as "islamist drawing up new constitution".

[Krauter]

Wierd isn't it, somehow it just doesn't sound as scary as "islamist drawing up new constitution".

I like the way you think. :up:

[August]

I suppose by your responses you two actually believe Islam is a peaceful religion too.

No, I believe that the Egyptian people have the right to self determination. Was I not clear?

Go right ahead and keep thinking these are just brave young students shouting slogans for freedom and democracy.

I'll go ahead and continue to believe in the American concept of Government by the People. Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical to demand it for yourself but deny it to others?

[Rockstar]

But is it not logical to cheer these peoples in their attempts to rid themselves of a maniacal dictator?

If not then I think you need to get back to reality :nope:


Logical if leadership is exchanged for something better.

As far as your comment about me being an ass hole. I have one thing to say to you buster. I can most definitely with out a doubt resemble that remark at times! :D

[Krauter]

:D I apologize for that.. for some reason what you said just struck a chord with me...


Anyways, I do think you have a point in that, if a dictator is removed and the country is left to find a suitable fair representative, more often than not someone corrupt or dangerous will take power. I understand that.

What I believe in however is that leave the people to their own devices, without outside influence and they will find a suitable representative that meets their requirements and who will be fair.

[Rockstar]

No worries, it doesn't happen often and I've been called far worse and always most deserving of it too.

My apologies to you too sir.

I've said this before some time ago. Islam is a religion of peace, but there can be no peace until all have submitted to Islam. And to think some here in America are unknowingly encouraging it. You know, there may just be a Caliphate in my lifetime yet.

[Sailor Steve]

@ Krauter and Rockstar: Whatever your intent, that kind of language is not proper for these boards. Please read the rules before posting.

[Rockstar]

Sorry Sailor Steve yer right the rules is the rules and ought to be observed at all times. :salute:

[Gerald]

Anti-government activists in Libya have been using social networking sites to rally support for protests on what they are describing as a "day of anger".

There were reports of clashes in two cities late on Wednesday, with about four people reported dead in the eastern city of al-Bayda.

Dozens of people were injured in violent demonstrations on Tuesday night in the eastern city of Benghazi.

The unrest there followed the detention of an outspoken government critic.

Pro-democracy protests have recently swept through several Arab nations, with the presidents of Tunisia and Egypt forced to resign amid growing unrest.

But this week's demonstrations were the first display of defiance in Libya, where dissent is rarely tolerated.
'The revolution continues!'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12490504


Note: Update Record,17 February 2011 Last updated at 10:48 GMT

[Rockstar]

And in our own backyard someone named Amir Abdel Malik-Ali just a month ago after giving a speech at the Muslim Student Association at UCLA. When he ended it he asked everyone to rise and join him in the pledge of allegiance. Not the one you think though.

I wonder how long it will take before these freedom loving students begin shouting their slogans and exercise their 'rights' for self determination here in the US?

Allah is my Lord
Islam is my Life
The Quran is my guide
The Sunna is my practice
Jihad is my Spirit
Righteousness is my Character
Paradise is my Goal
I enjoin what is Right
I forbid what is Wrong
I will fight against Oppression
And I will die to establish Islam

[Tribesman]

I wonder how long it will take before these freedom loving students begin shouting their slogans and exercise their 'rights' for self determination here in the US?

Will it take longer than the scary judge rewriting the constitution or longer than the global caliphate which is hiding under the bed?

[Rockstar]

Will it take longer than the scary judge rewriting the constitution or longer than the global caliphate which is hiding under the bed?

I have no doubt it will take much less time over there.

<edit> Whaddya know another U.S. allied country Bahrain. Host to the U.S. Navy's fifth fleet the counter balance to Iran. I suppose you'll tell me more poor students are fighting for self determination freedom and democracy there too. I must admit maybe some are but they are nothing more than patsies.

<edit> Upon futher investigation these protesters are a majoity Shia Muslim and they call themselves pro-democracy freedom fighters too! imagine that. Western media loves that crap so do the people they fall head over heels for those kinds of buzz words. When actually what they are fighting for is for the king to step down so they can live under a Shia Iman instead and probably boot the 5th fleet out.

http://www.shiitenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2496:four-dead-60-missing-in-bahrain-&catid=65:rest-of-world&Itemid=70

.

[Tribesman]

wow whoda thunk it , people are objecting to minority rule where absolute power is placed with one family and Rockstar condemned it then had to look it up to find out who his allies were.

One easy lesson, if you don't want to be associated with despots who keep their people down and don't want to face the natural consequences when they are eventually overthrown then don't choose dodgy regimes as allies:yeah:

BTW Rockstar, if these people are shia does that mean they are the ones who are going to form a global caliphate or do you think it will be the sunnis..... or do you think?

[Rockstar]

wow whoda thunk it , people are objecting to minority rule where absolute power is placed with one family and Rockstar condemned it then had to look it up to find out who his allies were.

One easy lesson, if you don't want to be associated with despots who keep their people down and don't want to face the natural consequences when they are eventually overthrown then don't choose dodgy regimes as allies:yeah:You hear in western media of students fighting for democracy self determination and get this, against government corruption. Do you know what a corrupt government is to a Muslim?

"One of the forms of jihad in Islam is jihad against evil and corruption within [the Islamic lands]. This jihad is crucial in order to protect society from collapse, disintegration, and perdition — for Muslim society has unique characteristics, and if these are lost, forgotten or destroyed, there will be no Muslim society."

Laws of Jihad by Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi

Kings, Dictators, Queens, Presidents, whether they be Sunni or Shia those leaders who have associations with infidels such as you and I are corrupt and must be dealt with. That is what we are seeing happen before us today. I hope you understand your perception of government corruption is so very far from theirs.



BTW Rockstar, if these people are shia does that mean they are the ones who are going to form a global caliphate or do you think it will be the sunnis..... or do you think?

Well Tribesman, the Sahib Al-Zaman is established doctrine for both Sunni and Shi’a Muslims. Though Sunni beliefs differ slightly in some areas, one in particular being I think some Sunni believe Caliph will speak Hebrew.


.

[Jimbuna]

...and so it continues :zzz:

[Tribesman]

Kings, Dictators, Queens, Presidents, whether they be Sunni or Shia those leaders who have associations with infidels such as you and I are corrupt and must be dealt with.
Yet they are also protesting against theocracies and anti western governments which makes your point pointless.

Do you know what a corrupt government is to a Muslim?
what a muslim thinks is irrelevant, you can put up a quote from a christian and it would be equally as meaningless.


Well Tribesman, the Sahib Al-Zaman is established doctrine for both Sunni and Shi’a Muslims.
So what?
How can they make this global caliphate you are so worried about when they spend their time fighting each other like they always have?

[Rockstar]

Yet they are also protesting against theocracies and anti western governments which makes your point pointless.


what a muslim thinks is irrelevant, you can put up a quote from a christian and it would be equally as meaningless.

You have got to be kidding me, what a muslim thinks is irrelevant? Yousuf Al-Qaradhawi is somebody you will be hearing much more of in the coming days, count on it. He was someone invited by the Egyptian Army after being banned by Mubarak for over 30 years. This is what those beloved freedom fighters brought in the name of democracy and self-determination.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5020.htm


So what? How can they make this global caliphate you are so worried about when they spend their time fighting each other like they always have?Not only is this a political goal but it is also a very religious one every muslim looks forward too. Nations are divided all the time look at the U.S. yet it functions, barely.

[DarkFish]

Upon futher investigation these protesters are a majoity Shia Muslim and they call themselves pro-democracy freedom fighters too! imagine that. Western media loves that crap so do the people they fall head over heels for those kinds of buzz words. When actually what they are fighting for is for the king to step down so they can live under a Shia Iman instead and probably boot the 5th fleet out.They say they are pro-democracy, so they are anti-democracy. That sounds really logical:doh:

[Tribesman]

You have got to be kidding me, what a muslim thinks is irrelevant?
What a muslim thinks is pretty irrelevant.

This is what those beloved freedom fighters brought in the name of democracy and self-determination.

Indeed, this is what they brought in........
"the revolution belongs to all Egyptians, both Muslim and Christian."
damn, you are supposed to kill the christians and eat their babies.:haha:

"He praised the army's announcement of support for democracy, elections, and the establishment of a committee for changing the constitution."
How dare he say that? democracy and elections, a new constitution approved by the people...the tyrant:har:

"He asked the army to disband the new government and to free the political prisoners"
Bloody hell he wants the new temporary military junta to end and wants political prisoners freed...this man is Hitler Stalin and Ghengis Khan all rolled into one with a side order of Pol pot.

Do you think that perhaps your link you provided should sort of in some way back up your points you are trying to make?:rotfl2:

Not only is this a political goal but it is also a very religious one every muslim looks forward too.
Wow:doh:

Nations are divided all the time look at the U.S. yet it functions, barely.
And now for something completely different

[Castout]

The only way dictatorship could be sustained is by it being the obstruction to societal progress at the expense of greater good as well as the nation and human development. Even this will only buy them time. In the end less harsh dictatorship will extend some more time but dictatorships also change the dictators unfortunately making them worse over time and out of touch with reality and humanity in effect fastening the time of their downfall by popular protest. All in all dictatorship is never a sustainable form of governing.

Man's nature requirements demands personal freedom and development based on fair and just rule of law. Neither of which could be delivered by a dictatorship.

Thus even regime like North Korea could not be expected to stand forever.

Every dictatorship will collapse either by internal factor or infighting or the regime is weakening the state or society itself so much that it attracts a much stronger nation to naturalize it.

The fallacy of reasoning usually made by dictators is that they are somehow so important so irreplaceable that their totalitarian rule would benefit the majority of a nation. It's a false logic because NO LEADER is so talented as being irreplaceable UNLESS he's consciously and systematically trying to make it so either by propaganda or state endorsed lies or real efforts by impeding societal development or both. In short we are not so radically different from one another INSIDE. This may take insight or empathy to realize, something that an egoistical person unable to come to realization. In other words dictators are living in a dream world their egoistical mind project. And because of their lofty egoistical delusion dictators are vulnerable to treat their people however they like, discarding the fact that each is a person JUST LIKE himself.

[Rockstar]

suit yourself :06:

by the way last post I win :woot:

[TLAM Strike]

by the way last post I win :woot:

Wrong thread...

ooops... now I've done it, you lose either way.... :O:

[Rockstar]

Wrong thread...

it is infectious isn't it? Dare I say it? :woot:

[Castout]

This song is a fitting reminder to all or would be dictators :DL. it talks about dying actually. Well there is no powerful dead person ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRtqH_QqhyM


The sun never revolves around any one man or even the entire mankind. Hard to accept but the planet and other species will most probably do even better without us :haha:

Come on be honest that's true.

[DarkFish]

How pathetic and miserably sad this is one says it's irrelevant what a protester thinks and will argue just for the sake of arguing. The other posts a youtube song and says how the world would be a better place if we weren't here. .And another one advocates dictatorships and is against freedom, while wanting exactly that for his own country:doh:

And whats even more troubling is someone is going to take my last post title trophy to this thread by responding to thisThat honour will be mine:DL

[Skybird]

From the chain of unrests, there is something more general to be learned, about Obama. I knew already that he had no interest in Europe, but recent events in the Arab world show that he indeed lacks any vision and comprehensive conception of foreign politics in general. This lack of concept explains why he is so absurdly zig-zagging back and forth between demanding democracy and being unable to come up with conceptual answers to the changes in the power and faction balance this change brings, and why he fails in trying the split between democracy and tyrannic monarchies in the Arab world.

As a German news outlet marked today, things will become really interesting when the unrest spreads to Bahrain - home and headquarter of the 5th fleet patrolling the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Iran would love to see this American foothold disappear.

I slowly but surely must conclude that while Obama's foreign policy is different to that of GWB, it nevertheless shows the same level of incompetence, lacking understanding and stupidity. It already became suspicious when he started to appease the Islamic world, hailed the indeed totalitarianism of Islam as freedom and humanism, and next when he had that speech in Cairo. I immediately wondered if he really had thought it to the bitter end what he said there.

The American Middle East policy falls apart currently, and the long-sought balancing in its structure to win strategic stablity, is in pieces. Well-intended words cannot compensate for lacking sense of realism and Realpolitik. Some of the biggest disasters in man's history were caused by good intentions. It is here when Obama's undeniable brilliant rethoric talent turns out for the worst results.

Bush's problem was lobbyistic connections that pulled the strings he hang on, and lacking intellect. He simply is a stupid man. Obama's problem is not a lack of intelligence and intellect, but a too narrow horizon.

[DarkFish]

I tend to agree with you there Sky. I didn't see Bush's foreign policy as anything good, but Obama isn't much better. IMO he just jumps back and forth between all possible policies, without taking any firm standpoint. One moment he tried to appease the opposition in Egypt, while another time he firmly backed Mubarak. Generally speaking I like Obama better than Bush, but Bush at least usually took firm stances on foreign politics. Not this weak slippery unclear Obama talk:shifty:

[Takeda Shingen]

From the chain of unrests, there is something more general to be learned, about Obama. I knew already that he had no interest in Europe, but recent events in the Arab world show that he indeed lacks any vision and comprehensive conception of foreign politics in general. This lack of concept explains why he is so absurdly zig-zagging back and forth between demanding democracy and being unable to come up with conceptual answers to the changes in the power and faction balance this change brings, and why he fails in trying the split between democracy and tyrannic monarchies in the Arab world.

As a German news outlet marked today, things will become really interesting when the unrest spreads to Bahrain - home and headquarter of the 5th fleet patrolling the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Iran would love to see this American foothold disappear.

I slowly but surely must conclude that while Obama's foreign policy is different to that of GWB, it nevertheless shows the same level of incompetence, lacking understanding and stupidity. It already became suspicious when he started to appease the Islamic world, hailed the indeed totalitarianism of Islam as freedom and humanism, and next when he had that speech in Cairo. I immediately wondered if he really had thought it to the bitter end what he said there.

The American Middle East policy falls apart currently, and the long-sought balancing in its structure to win strategic stablity, is in pieces. Well-intended words cannot compensate for lacking sense of realism and Realpolitik. Some of the biggest disasters in man's history were caused by good intentions. It is here when Obama's undeniable brilliant rethoric talent turns out for the worst results.

Bush's problem was lobbyistic connections that pulled the strings he hang on, and lacking intellect. He simply is a stupid man. Obama's problem is not a lack of intelligence and intellect, but a too narrow horizon.

I can't agree that Obama's policy is any different than Bush's. We have not changed our direction in the Middle East, nor anywhere else abroad. We do have words; lots of words, and some of them very nice. Still, those words have not changed out actions. If we are seeing the Middle East policy falling apart, it is because it was destined to do so. Our continued action in the Middle East is only reaping disaster because it has been sowed for 30 years. It is only by chance that it happens under Obama; it could have easily happened under Bush 43 or whoever the 45th US president will be. In directly addressing the Obama administration's policy, it may as well been a third term of the Bush administration, despite the rhetoric of change.

[Rockstar]

The people you support are choosing an Islamic Republic and Shria Law. IMO it was I believe the intent of these demonstrations from the beginning. For your benefit they use words like freedom and democracy they give westerners a warm and fuzzy feeling all over that brings a tear to their eye. While you weep for them try scraping away the deception and see it for what it is.

"Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn’t look for a nation to be in a better condition than another nation. Islam doesn’t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy. In order to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can be used to bring worldwide revolution. This is Jihad."

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you, Thanks to our religious laws, we will dominate you." Abdullah Al-Araby, The Islamization of America.


I should add too. It's no secret we knew that by propping up governments with the likes of Mubarak in that region was simply the lesser of the two evils. He's gone now and now another yet greater one takes his place. I reckon it's were damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[Takeda Shingen]

The people you support are choosing an Islamic Republic and Shria Law. IMO it was I believe the intent of these demonstrations from the beginning. For your benefit they use words like freedom and democracy they give westerners a warm and fuzzy feeling all over that brings a tear to their eye. While you weep for them try scraping away the deception and see it for what it is.

See, I don't believe that it was the intent of the demonstrators to form an Islamic republic. However, I think that it will be the result of the liberalization of these nations. The militant Islamic groups are, by their nature, better organized and funded than other groups whom they would compete against for votes. They are not honest brokers, so they were able to operate more efficiently under the radar of a dictatorial regime. As such, they will have a tremendous advantage coming out of the blocks, so to speak. This is combined with the fact that most of the country's pro-democracy demonstrators are disenfranchised youth, a demographic that these Islamic groups specialize in recruiting. And so it is very likely that the end result is an Islamic republic born of the votes of the people; one that the US would be powerless to topple.

[Skybird]

I can't agree that Obama's policy is any different than Bush's. We have not changed our direction in the Middle East, nor anywhere else abroad. We do have words; lots of words, and some of them very nice. Still, those words have not changed out actions. If we are seeing the Middle East policy falling apart, it is because it was destined to do so. Our continued action in the Middle East is only reaping disaster because it has been sowed for 30 years. It is only by chance that it happens under Obama; it could have easily happened under Bush 43 or whoever the 45th US president will be. In directly addressing the Obama administration's policy, it may as well been a third term of the Bush administration, despite the rhetoric of change.
We do not really differ on the basic fundamentals of the situation, I think. Of course the US policy for the ME is the construction of the past 3 decades, but Obama has helped in its falling apart by his different signals and partly contradictory messages he sent out. His policy also differs from that of Bush in that he reached out to "them", no matter on what grounds and motives, and did so to a wider degree, than Bush. His Cairo speech set up a trap that added to "their"motivation and now sees Obama himself being trapped inside. But yes, you are right that Obama is not responsible for the total 30 years of US ME policy. Nevertheless he changed the style of it, the tone, compared to Bush, and while Bush maybe also would have seen a scene of revolts sooner or later, both men still are different in the paths they choosed to get to that point.

[Skybird]

See, I don't believe that it was the intent of the demonstrators to form an Islamic republic. However, I think that it will be the result of the liberalization of these nations. The militant Islamic groups are, by their nature, better organized and funded than other groups whom they would compete against for votes. They are not honest brokers, so they were able to operate more efficiently under the radar of a dictatorial regime. As such, they will have a tremendous advantage coming out of the blocks, so to speak. This is combined with the fact that most of the country's pro-democracy demonstrators are disenfranchised youth, a demographic that these Islamic groups specialize in recruiting. And so it is very likely that the end result is an Islamic republic born of the votes of the people; one that the US would be powerless to topple.

And here we totally agree.

[joea]

Very good article:

http://www.juancole.com/2011/02/top-five-myths-about-the-middle-east-protests.html

[Gerald]

Details have emerged of huge casualty figures in the Libyan city of Benghazi, where troops have launched a brutal crackdown on protesters.

More than 200 people are known to have died, doctors say, with 900 injured.

The most bloody attacks were reported over the weekend, as funeral marches were said to have come under machine-gun and heavy weapons fire.

One doctor, speaking amid the sound of fresh gunfire on Sunday, told the BBC that "a real massacre" had happened.

Human Rights Watch says at least 173 people have been killed in Libya since demonstrations began on Wednesday.

Benghazi, the country's second city, has been a leading focus of protests against four decades of rule by Col Muammar Gaddafi.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12517327


Note: Update Record,20 February 2011 Last updated at 15:01 GMT

[Tribesman]

And here we totally agree.
Whereas somone with half a brain would say No.
Someone with a possibly full or even relatively funcional brain would say"bollox".
Its rather simple Takeda, watch the way the arguements are against themselves.
In this cased you have a usually very confused Skybird arguing against the very core elements of his beliefs.

[MH]

.......In this cased you have a usually very confused Skybird arguing against the very core elements of his beliefs.

This is a proof that you see things in rather monaural way.:03:
Start using the other half of your brain.

[Jimbuna]

Details have emerged of huge casualty figures in the Libyan city of Benghazi, where troops have launched a brutal crackdown on protesters.

More than 200 people are known to have died, doctors say, with 900 injured.

The most bloody attacks were reported over the weekend, as funeral marches were said to have come under machine-gun and heavy weapons fire.

One doctor, speaking amid the sound of fresh gunfire on Sunday, told the BBC that "a real massacre" had happened.

Human Rights Watch says at least 173 people have been killed in Libya since demonstrations began on Wednesday.

Benghazi, the country's second city, has been a leading focus of protests against four decades of rule by Col Muammar Gaddafi.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12517327


Note: Update Record,20 February 2011 Last updated at 15:01 GMT

Thank you Reuters

[Tribesman]

Start using the other half of your brain.
Sorry MH, when someone does typical textbook propoganda it makes a suggetion that the person has a problem
When that person extends that propoganda without thought just to fit thier views..as in "those people" "blacks and muslims" it suggests rather strongly the person has a problem.
When it attempts to pull in some achedemic like "popper says " or "nietzche says" its running on thin ice
When they repeatedly post such obvious lies they are laughable
when it links to crazy extremist bigot websites and calls them "achedemic" studies you have to laugh or cry.

So if you want to defend skybird on a cetain topic please look at his views on that subject first rather than going "oooooanti muslim ...must be good"

[Gerald]

Thank you Reuters :haha:

[Tchocky]

Watching this on AlJazeera live stream :/ :/

[Tribesman]

Thank you Reuters
Don't be cheeky, Reuters updated at 15:13 which is so very different to the BBC updating at 15:01.
But anyway RTE says......
Members of a Libyan army unit told Benghazi residents that they had defected and 'liberated' Libya's second city from troops supporting veteran leader Muammar Gaddafi.
And that was at 22.22 which is handy on the 2 button:up:

Sorry 22:22
Should I make it bigger?

"We are living in dangerous times."


Thats from the old Cork Examiner but its yesterdays so it wasn't updated to "We are living in dangerous times." but I think it still conveys the message.
Wow black writing, thats what happens when you go down to the rebel county. Even the most radical musimlofascisticommunecologist would get lost and confused down there

[Castout]

How pathetic and miserably sad this is one says it's irrelevant what a protester thinks and will argue just for the sake of arguing. The other posts a youtube song and says how the world would be a better place if we weren't here. .


Rockstar you're missing the point. If you really think dictatorship is best most probably you're already living under one that you're living a fearful oppressed life that you develop a Stockholm syndrome under the oppressive regime. In a way it's how you psychologically adapt to it in order to feel more secure.

Dictatorship is only best for the dictator and his cronies alone at the expense of the whole nation and society. I'm not saying a nation canot in the short run prosper under an oppressive regime. Because democracy IS NOT an economic ideal but a political ideal. The first casualty in dictatorship is the truth then rule of law such that individual rights aren't recognized and honored and civil society becoming nonexistent replaced by totalitarian dictator control in media, politics, social institutions and economy. when the last happens then it means fascism.

In the absence of accountability chaos rules and with it goes away civilized way of doing things replaced with barbarism or concealed barbarism and institutionalized gang rule.

[Gerald]

Don't be cheeky, Reuters updated at 15:13 which is so very different to the BBC updating at 15:01.
But anyway RTE says......
Members of a Libyan army unit told Benghazi residents that they had defected and 'liberated' Libya's second city from troops supporting veteran leader Muammar Gaddafi.
And that was at 22.22 which is handy on the 2 button:up:

Sorry 22:22
Should I make it bigger?


Thats from the old Cork Examiner but its yesterdays so it wasn't updated to "We are living in dangerous times." but I think it still conveys the message.
Wow black writing, thats what happens when you go down to the rebel county. Even the most radical musimlofascisticommunecologist would get lost and confused down there


Tribesman, have you ever been to Libya?, a very diverse country, I do not recommend you currently go there but when calm has settled, take a trip there, and you see another world.

[Gerald]

Libya protests: Gaddafi's son warns of civil war.

Sayf al-Islam, Colonel Gaddafi's son, appears on Libyan TV and accuses people outside Libya of provoking violence.

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son, Sayf al-Islam, has warned of civil war in the country.

He said that the government would "fight to the last bullet" to stay in office.

In a TV address to the nation broadcast as anti-government protests spread to the capital Tripoli, he admitted that the military had over-reacted against protesters.

But he accused opposition groups and Islamists of trying to break up Libya.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

Note: Update Record,21 February 2011 Last updated at 01:01 GMT

[Castout]

Gaddafi used African mercenaries.

There are reports some military officials to have taken side with the protesters.


I hope all Libya's military to take side with the people. If bullets have to fly for this Gaddafi to go then it must fly.

[Gerald]

Gaddafi used African mercenaries.

There are reports some military officials to have taken side with the protesters.


I hope all Libya's military to take side with the people. If bullets have to fly for this Gaddafi to go then it must fly. Yes, then it has Gaddafi use as long as the tool to achieve both political and military objectives, both have been failing at, however, as reflected in the current situation

[krashkart]

He also said that "African mercenaries" were being used against the government - a charge protesters have made against the government itself.

So whose mercs are they? :hmmm:

[Castout]

The govt of course. The truth is always the victim of a dictatorship.


I'm amazed that an Arab based news channel could be so much more active covering these protests than CNN which is based in supposedly democracy superpower.

CNN always have more ad and less coverage on such important development.

I'm liking Al Jazeera more than CNN now.

I've stopped reading Time magazine since years ago because they somehow became dull and uninteresting. Reading them was becoming bland. They lost their bite somehow. I don't know about now however.

[Rockstar]

Gaddafi used African mercenaries.

There are reports some military officials to have taken side with the protesters.


I hope all Libya's military to take side with the people. If bullets have to fly for this Gaddafi to go then it must fly.

You are missing the point Castout. What is coming is far worse than dictators. I don't understand for years nobody heard anything about Gaddafi now all of a sudden even you say he's a dictator that should be shot. Even Daniel feared for the king who imprisoned him.

In your home land you probably will soon see the same thing happen all in the name of democracy and freedom. This is Islamic Jihad al-faasiqeen freedom fighters fighting in the name of Allah striving against the corrupt Muslims leaders who have associated with the infidels. Replacing them with a hard line Islamic Republic.


Khamenei urged Muslims worldwide to preserve the "people's movement in Egypt," saying it was the duty of both the people and dignitaries of Arab nations and the entire Islamic community.

He reiterated that the Arab revolts were "Islamic" and must be consolidated.

"The enemies try to say that the popular movements in Egypt, Tunisia and other nations are un-Islamic, but certainly these popular movements are Islamic and must be consolidated," he said.

Khamenei also urged that "the conspiracy of enemies to create differences between Sunnis and Shiites" be confronted.

http://www.thenewage.co.za/10953-1020-53-US_must_be_removed_from_Islamic_world_Khamenei

[Krauter]

Now if only this would spread to NK :nope: ...

At least give an excuse for the South Koreans/U.S and Chinese to go in and clean the place up.

[Castout]

You are missing the point Castout. What is coming is far worse than dictators. I don't understand for years nobody heard anything about Gaddafi now all of a sudden even you say he's a dictator that should be shot. Even Daniel feared for the king who imprisoned him.

In your home land you probably will soon see the same thing happen all in the name of democracy and freedom. This is Islamic Jihad al-faasiqeen freedom fighters fighting in the name of Allah striving against the corrupt Muslims leaders who have associated with the infidels. Replacing them with a hard line Islamic Republic.


Khamenei urged Muslims worldwide to preserve the "people's movement in Egypt," saying it was the duty of both the people and dignitaries of Arab nations and the entire Islamic community.

He reiterated that the Arab revolts were "Islamic" and must be consolidated.

"The enemies try to say that the popular movements in Egypt, Tunisia and other nations are un-Islamic, but certainly these popular movements are Islamic and must be consolidated," he said.

Khamenei also urged that "the conspiracy of enemies to create differences between Sunnis and Shiites" be confronted.

http://www.thenewage.co.za/10953-1020-53-US_must_be_removed_from_Islamic_world_Khamenei

Well I've known persecution all too well and what it made people to. My health is pretty much ruined and I got blamed for my victimization. Death threat spoken by or relayed through no less a member of religious order and I see my own mother turned secular and an apostate by swearing falsely intentionally. Hardly anyone would listen to me and I don't demand much but to be listened. I don't even need any support or help whatsoever. The people who persecute me cheat me out of my effort and knew very well some of the things God had given me but nonetheless for the sake of their ego they persisted with lies and even tried to steal from me and they probably still unknowingly by me. I've come to know such people without credibility and decency to exist and it is beyond my doubt that the Arab world found themselves more or less in the same situation.

In my view a king ought to be respected as a king, and thus a president as a president and such. But when a president tries to become a king then you have a pretender in place. In other words fake democracy is unacceptable but an absolute monarchy would!

As a Christian I myself tried to be a pacifist and passive but years have taught me it wasn't appreciated and only would make matters worse.
In the end I'm no Daniel. If men who put down the law say they are above it they should be judged by that very same law. Social contract should be honored whether in absolute monarchy, constitutional one or a Republic. The only reason men would want to be above rules is so that so they could become lower than the animals.

[Gerald]

The govt of course. The truth is always the victim of a dictatorship.


I'm amazed that an Arab based news channel could be so much more active covering these protests than CNN which is based in supposedly democracy superpower.

CNN always have more ad and less coverage on such important development.

I'm liking Al Jazeera more than CNN now.

I've stopped reading Time magazine since years ago because they somehow became dull and uninteresting. Reading them was becoming bland. They lost their bite somehow. I don't know about now however.I can agree with on CNN has become colorless, which of course you are using other sources

[Tribesman]

"The enemies try to say that the popular movements in Egypt, Tunisia and other nations are un-Islamic, but certainly these popular movements are Islamic and must be consolidated,"

Rockstar, does that mean khamenie is saying the popular movement against his Islamic theocracy is an islamic religious movement?:smug:

[Castout]

HEAR This

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180351&page=5

[Skybird]

A completely different perspective on this chain of unrests.

Ín the past, we already got under poressure from Islam, since the early 60s, but more or less we held our position despite our dependency on their oil. This was not because we were so strong, but because the Muslim nations were so un-united and so much at quarrel with themselves.

Has anyone ever taken the time to imagine the unpleasant scenario how it would effect us if the Muslim nations in the near future would start to act united against us...?

[Gerald]

A completely different perspective on this chain of unrests.

Ín the past, we already got under poressure from Islam, since the early 60s, but more or less we held our position despite our dependency on their oil. This was not because we were so strong, but because the Muslim nations were so un-united and so much at quarrel with themselves.

Has anyone ever taken the time to imagine the unpleasant scenario how it would effect us if the Muslim nations in the near future would start to act united against us...? the last sentence of your post is now a reality in some countries, not all ........ yet, and why?, there are explanations, and vice versa

[Skybird]

I am not about the status in individual nations, but I meant the international community of Muslim nations alltogether, as one actor, like "the West". The organisation of Muslim states most of the time is split and divided and busy with fights between actors in their rows. If it, if the Islamic part of the world would learn to act united and coordinated and as one party, then fear even more for freedom in the other parts of the world - including the West.

Islam is nothing arbitrary, it is what is based on Quran and it inevitably includes Shariah. Else it is not "Islam". And this Islam knows no compromise and tolerant, multicultural side-by-side with others. It only knows absolute rule, sole reign - that and nothing else is "Islam".

[Gerald]

I am not about the status in individual nations, but I meant the international community of Muslim nations alltogether, as one actor, like "the West". The organisation of Muslim states most of the time is split and divided and busy with fights between actors in their rows. If it, if the Islamic part of the world would learn to act united and coordinated and as one party, then fear even more for freedom in the other parts of the world - including the West.

Islam is nothing arbitrary, it is what is based on Quran and it inevitably includes Shariah. Else it is not "Islam". And this Islam knows no compromise and tolerant, multicultural side-by-side with others. It only knows absolute rule, sole reign - that and nothing else is "Islam". I had a clear picture of your item is no misunderstanding has come up, but for some, controversial topic for many reasons, and there is no one who benefits from getting away from the fact.

[Tribesman]

Has anyone ever taken the time to imagine the unpleasant scenario how it would effect us if the Muslim nations in the near future would start to act united against us...?
In other news predictions are welcomed on how soon pigs will fly.

[Gerald]

Bloody Clashes in Tripoli as Gov't Offices Burn!

CAIRO – Libyan protesters celebrated in the streets of Benghazi on Monday, claiming control of the country's second largest city after bloody fighting, and anti-government unrest spread to the capital with clashes in Tripoli's main square for the first time. Muammar al-Qaddafi's son vowed that his father and security forces would fight "until the last bullet."

Even as Seif al-Islam Qaddafi spoke on state TV Sunday night, clashes were raging in and around Tripoli's central Green Square, lasting until dawn Monday, witnesses said. They reported snipers opening fire on crowds trying to seize the square, and Qaddafi supporters speeding through in vehicles, shooting and running over protesters. Before dawn, protesters took over the offices of two of the multiple state-run satellite news channels, witnesses said.

A major government building in the capital was on fire Monday morning, a Reuters reporter said. The building is where the General People's Congress, or parliament, meets when it is in session in Tripoli.

Smoke was also rising from two sites in Tripoli where a police station and a security forces bases are located, said Rehab, a lawyer watching from the roof of her home.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/21/libya-protesters-security-clash-capital/


Note: Update Record,Published February 21, 2011

[DarkFish]

Khamenei urged Muslims worldwide to preserve the "people's movement in Egypt," saying it was the duty of both the people and dignitaries of Arab nations and the entire Islamic community.

He reiterated that the Arab revolts were "Islamic" and must be consolidated.

"The enemies try to say that the popular movements in Egypt, Tunisia and other nations are un-Islamic, but certainly these popular movements are Islamic and must be consolidated," he said.

Khamenei also urged that "the conspiracy of enemies to create differences between Sunnis and Shiites" be confronted.Yeah, because Khamenei has anything to say in Egypt:har:

[TLAM Strike]

Is see that Bahrain and Libya both deal with their protesters the same way... :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3WRKoZPPao&feature=player_embedded

[Gerald]

True, but the difference is that in Bahrain, where people have a bit more money a little more of everything, Libya has one person who should have gone, the light years ago which this time is quite short for him.

[Tchocky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Live coverage

[Oberon]

Latest unconfirmed is that Gaddafi has done a runner to Venezuela

And now the Libyan UN delegation has called on the UN to protect Libyan citizens from the 'genocide' and impose a no-fly zone!

[Gerald]

Just leaving the country, it is good, Venezuela former colony of Portugal, it feels like a not long term relationship...

[papa_smurf]

Response from Gaddafi's son:

"Col Gaddafi's son, Saif al-Islam, conceded that protesters had taken over eastern cities of al-Bayda and Benghazi. But he warned of civil war and vowed to "fight to the last bullet".


Sounds like he aint leaving in a hurry, or peacefully....

[Gerald]

Current situation has fighter aircraft deployed, and as long as the defense forces are on his side, it will be very bloody

[Tchocky]

The reaction from the regime, I think, has shown the demonstrators that they can't go back.

EDIT - Al-Jazeera now reporting that a couple of Libyan Mirages ordered to bomb protestors have landed on Malta. The officers defected after seeing their colleagues bombing crowds in Benghazi :/ :/ :/

Video looks like Mirage F1 type.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?foo=bar

[Gerald]

Pilots Seek Asylum Amid Libya Chaos!

VALLETTA, Malta -- Two Libyan air force jets have arrived in Malta and military officials say their pilots have asked for political asylum amid a bloody crackdown on anti-government protesters in Libya.

The two Mirage jets arrived Monday shortly after two civilian helicopters landed at the airport carrying seven people who said they were French.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/21/libya-air-force-jets-malta-pilots-seek-asylum/

Note: Update Record,Published February 21, 2011

[TLAM Strike]

Video looks like Mirage F1 type.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?foo=bar Confirm that. the LARAF has 12 (10 now).

Apparently the pilots were senior colonels.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1340/475maltalibyasffstandal.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1317/2756633800.jpg
^note the rocket pods.

Two civilian helis joined them.
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3386/207maltalibyanhelicopte.jpg
Frelon? :hmmm:

[Gerald]

The reaction from the regime, I think, has shown the demonstrators that they can't go back.

EDIT - Al-Jazeera now reporting that a couple of Libyan Mirages ordered to bomb protestors have landed on Malta. The officers defected after seeing their colleagues bombing crowds in Benghazi :/ :/ :/

Video looks like Mirage F1 type.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?foo=bar Oh sorry mate, I saw your link right now :yep:

[Tchocky]

Frelon? :hmmm:

Super Puma, looks like. Frelon is a bit chunkier

[Gerald]

Possible, an older type of Super Puma :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Between 300 and 400 people were reportedly killed in unrest today and a 27-year-old student in the city of Benghazi as TT / news agency / talked to on the phone said that the demonstrators have control over the city.

- We have taken control of the entire Benghazi. It is free now, "he says

[krashkart]

It's really come unglued over there.

[Gerald]

Real mess,and smell of death!

[Gerald]

Now raining bombs on Tripoli,poor people...

[Gerald]

An overview of current situation.

http://i.imgur.com/TE0sI.jpg

[Oberon]

Now raining bombs on Tripoli,poor people...

Two pilots have defected to Malta and requested political asylum after being ordered to drop bombs on the crowds. :doh:

This is the day I reckon, it's do or die for Libya now.

(EDIT: Just noticed that News Vendor has posted it already)

[Jimbuna]

Two pilots have defected to Malta and requested political asylum after being ordered to drop bombs on the crowds. :doh:

This is the day I reckon, it's do or die for Libya now.

(EDIT: Just noticed that News Vendor has posted it already)

LOL :DL

[Gerald]

As long as there is a certain band of armed forces who are loyal, it can be bloody, but not as Egypt where the armed forces refused to intervene

[TLAM Strike]

As long as there is a certain band of armed forces who are loyal, it can be bloody...

I wonder what the status of his 40 female virgin bodyguards (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1192494/More-make-hair-dye-40-virgin-bodyguards-Gaddafi-murderous-menace.html) are?

[Gerald]

I wonder what the status of his 40 female virgin bodyguards (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1192494/More-make-hair-dye-40-virgin-bodyguards-Gaddafi-murderous-menace.html) are? They have blowing in the wind..

[TheSatyr]

I just can't see all of this as a coincidence,or "we are rebelling because they did". It just feels to me like there is someone or something pulling the strings behind all this.

Plus there have been too many signs printed out in English for me to truly believe that this is a home grown democracy movement. It seems too well organized.

Ah well,give it 2-5 years and then we will see what is really going on over there.

Hope for the best,but expect the worst.

[Jimbuna]

I wonder what the status of his 40 female virgin bodyguards (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1192494/More-make-hair-dye-40-virgin-bodyguards-Gaddafi-murderous-menace.html) are?

They've all sought sanctuary at the local zoo I hear :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

They've all sought sanctuary at the local zoo I hear :hmmm:

:haha:

Having seen pictures of some of them I'm not surprised they are still Virgins...

[Jimbuna]

:haha:

Having seen pictures of some of them I'm not surprised they are still Virgins...

Oh I couldn't possibly comment:nope:

Pass me that harpoon and banana, I've an idea.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8231/pinocchioij91.gif

[TLAM Strike]

Pass me that harpoon and banana, I've an idea.

Here is a harpoon...
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4811/kopp4.jpg
...get your own damn banana...

:O:

[krashkart]

Oh I couldn't possibly comment:nope:

Pass me that harpoon and banana, I've an idea.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8231/pinocchioij91.gif


Be careful, Jim. They may not have seen a banana in a long, long time. :timeout:

[Oberon]

I just can't see all of this as a coincidence,or "we are rebelling because they did". It just feels to me like there is someone or something pulling the strings behind all this.

Plus there have been too many signs printed out in English for me to truly believe that this is a home grown democracy movement. It seems too well organized.

Ah well,give it 2-5 years and then we will see what is really going on over there.

Hope for the best,but expect the worst.

Well it is wierd, it reminds me a lot of Trotskys global revolution theory, of spreading revolutions swiftly like a domino effect. I honestly thought it was a load of bunk until the dominoes started falling in North Africa.

It's quite remarkable really from an outsiders viewpoint.

[TLAM Strike]

Well it is wierd, it reminds me a lot of Trotskys global revolution theory, of spreading revolutions swiftly like a domino effect. I honestly thought it was a load of bunk until the dominoes started falling in North Africa.

It's quite remarkable really from an outsiders viewpoint.

I guess technology caught up to Trotsky's vision. In his day ideas took years or decades to travel across the world. Not it takes seconds.

[Jimbuna]

Here is a harpoon...
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4811/kopp4.jpg
...get your own damn banana...

:O:

Be careful, Jim. They may not have seen a banana in a long, long time. :timeout:

LMAO :har:

[Gerald]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4548325/will-qadaffi-be-next-domino-to-fall/?playlist_id=86857



Note: Feb 21, 2011

[Oberon]

I guess technology caught up to Trotsky's vision. In his day ideas took years or decades to travel across the world. Not it takes seconds.

Good point TLAM, well said. :yep:

[TLAM Strike]

The Guardian via ID reports that the Libyan Navy is now shelling civilian targets in Tripoli. (http://www.informationdissemination.net/2011/02/libyan-navy-bombs-residential-areas.html)

Libya has two frigates, two corvettes and several small combatants.

If we just let one DDG or a couple F-15s go weapons free this could be all over.

[Krauter]

Was just going to ask why is the USN or anyone for that matter, not stepping in with Libyan Armed Forces killing its own civilians?

[TLAM Strike]

Was just going to ask why is the USN or anyone for that matter, not stepping in with Libyan Armed Forces killing its own civilians? Its not US policy to interfere with the internal affairs such as this of other countries, at least not overtly.

But there are times I wish we would... :nope:

[Oberon]

The protesters don't want outside help. If anyone steps in then they'll turn on the outside help.
Only thing we can do is watch and wait.

[Skybird]

I just can't see all of this as a coincidence,or "we are rebelling because they did". It just feels to me like there is someone or something pulling the strings behind all this.

1st, there are plenty of inner tensions in Muslims societies, caused by demographic and economic factors of the modern present.

2nd, many riots in all places where there have been riots so far, have also been described by some correspondents to have been caused by living costs climbing to unaffordable levels, and food prices going up massively - and this is a direct consequences of the US flooding the global market with dollars, dollars, and more dollars. The loss of strategic stability and the falling apart of the US construction of it's ME policy is a feedback from its irresponsible fiscal policy that helped (helped - not completely caused all by itself) to a certain degree the outbreak of these riots and thus backfires at the US by causing havoc on its ME policy.

Edit: CNN reports that Lybian combat pilots ordered to bomb civilians have defected to Malta. / A grave with many soldiers who got shot because they refused to massacre civilians should have been found.

[TLAM Strike]

Edit: CNN reports that Lybian combat pilots ordered to bomb civilians have defected to Malta. / A grave with many soldiers who got shot because they refused to massacre civilians should have been found.
BBC just reported that the Libyan government is flying in mercs, perhaps because the army is mostly unwilling to fight. Also their UN mission has defected and is condemning the government for genocide.

Also Riots and burned bodies found in Morocco.

From the Atlantic Coast to the Indian ocean the whole region is turning to sh!t...

[Oberon]

It certainly is, with a rapidity which is quite frightening.

[Oberon]

"I am in Tripoli, not in Venezuela, do not believe these channels they are dogs, goodbye."


Somewhere off screen there's a Venezuelan with a hosepipe... :haha:

[krashkart]

Somewhere off screen there's a Venezuelan with a hosepipe... :haha:


I'm not Venezual... oh. :oops:

Carry on. :D

[Gerald]

Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi, facing intense pressure on his regime from all sides, appeared briefly on state TV as the international community increasingly condemned the bloody crackdown on anti-government protests.

The appearance lasted mere seconds, and Qaddafi said only that he was in the capitol of Tripoli, contrary to rumors that he had left the country.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/21/qaddafi-expected-address-libya-world-condemns-bloody-crackdown-protests/


Note: Update Record,Published February 21, 2011

[Castout]

UN security council to hold a closed meeting Tuesday 9AM.

Time to intervene. What took so long?

Fly in fighters to fly CAP and bring in much needed medical supplies and set up temporary ad hoc field hospital and bring in food supplies from Egypt and if need UN troops!

If I had the money I'd send medical supplies for these Libyan from Egypt God damn it.

[TLAM Strike]

...and if need UN troops!

Required...
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4893/unafrica717149.jpg

[Skybird]

"Only on subsim would the trolls have 903 posts"
- gimpy117


:har:

Great, Sir, really great sig that is! :haha: I spilled my tea, and that on empty stomach!

[Tribesman]

Time to intervene. What took so long?

Firstly the UN is only as good as its membership, especially so when it comes to the big 5 on the security council.
Secondly nearly all their work can only be done with the agreement of the country involved. So in this case the trigger for that bit would have been the Libyan delegation to the UN getting some sense yesteday

[Castout]

Required...
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4893/unafrica717149.jpg

:haha:

Firstly the UN is only as good as its membership, especially so when it comes to the big 5 on the security council.
Secondly nearly all their work can only be done with the agreement of the country involved. So in this case the trigger for that bit would have been the Libyan delegation to the UN getting some sense yesteday

The more delay the more people getting killed. Gaddafi only wants the land and its riches and not the people in it. To him he owns Libya and Libyans just rent :nope:

[joea]

Using your own air force to bomb your people, not cool Muammar. :nope:

Cool that a couple of colonels flew their migs to Malta though looks like the Clash were right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9r8LMU9bQ

The king called up his jet fighters /
He said you better earn your pay /
Drop your bombs between the minarets /
...Down the Casbah way / /

As soon as the shareef was /
Chauffeured outta there /
The jet pilots tuned to /
The cockpit radio blare /

As soon as the shareef was /
Outta their hair /
The jet pilots wailed /

Rock the Casbah
Rock the Casbah

[Betonov]

There will be billions in the reconstruction of Lybia after the protests, but only if gadaffi is still alive. Thats the mentality of my goverment :x

[Skybird]

Gaddi's latest appearance was bizarre, to put it mildly.

Heck, all his appearance always have been bizzare.

But since my schooldays I always considered him to be seriously mentally deranged. He is mentally ill, period.

That doe snot mean that ne is not a terrorist and a bloody criminal, too. He is. And European politicians, amongst them top ranks from the eU, from Italy, France, Britain, stoodline in recent years to shake his blood-dripping hand.

Send some cleenex to these capitals. And some H2SO4 to clean the especially stubborn stains on their hands.

P.S. Gaddi's second son, who sometimes got seen as a Westernised moderate and who talked his father into handing over Lybia's nuclear weapon material (and whom I complimented for that in some older threads- my wrong assessment of the man, my fault), also let fall his mask yesterday. I admit, for some time I fell for it - until yesterday. To hell with all the clan members. Once again I learned: good willingness regarding these types never pays off.

[Castout]

Gaddafi is not mentally deranged imo not at all.

He just loves power too much. In the spectrum of his kind of people he's completely normal. The people like him need to visit death without actually being dead to come back and realize what he's after is totally pointless if not done for the service of fellow men. Dead man never takes anything and anyone with him but all the motives for his deeds.

[Betonov]

And European politicians, amongst them top ranks from the eU, from Italy, France, Britain, stoodline in recent years to shake his blood-dripping hand.

Send some cleenex to these capitals. And some H2SO4 to clean the especially stubborn stains on their hands.

I dont think only cleenex will do for Ljubljana, we're standing in bucketloads of Lybian blood

[Gerald]

(Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi vowed defiance in the face of a mounting revolt against his 41-year rule on Tuesday, making a fleeting television appearance to scorn protesters and deny he had fled the country.

Gaddafi's forces have cracked down fiercely on demonstrators, with fighting now spreading to the capital Tripoli after erupting in Libya's oil-producing east last week. Human Rights Watch says at least 233 people have been killed.

As the fighting has intensified across the thinly populated nation stretching from the Mediterranean deep into the Sahara desert, cracks appeared among Gaddafi supporters, with some ambassadors resigning and calling for his removal.

The justice minister quit in protest at the use of force and a group of army officers called on soldiers to "join the people," while two pilots flew their warplanes to nearby Malta.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/22/us-libya-protests-idUSTRE71G0A620110222

Note: Update Record,TRIPOLI | Tue Feb 22, 2011

[Jimbuna]

Using your own air force to bomb your people, not cool Muammar. :nope:

Cool that a couple of colonels flew their migs to Malta though looks like the Clash were right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9r8LMU9bQ

Aye rgr that. :rock:

[Gerald]

Embattled leader Moamer Kadhafi is to speak to the Libyan people in a nationwide address, Libyan state television said on Tuesday afternoon without giving a time.

Note: Update Record,http://www.afp.com/afpcom/en/

[TLAM Strike]

Early reports suggest that a Libyan Warship may have pulled a Red October. (http://www.informationdissemination.net/2011/02/meanwhile-off-libya-at-sea.html)

This stuff gets crazier by the minute!

[Respenus]

I dont think only cleenex will do for Ljubljana, we're standing in bucketloads of Lybian blood

Agreed, our PM has been sucking up to him for so long in order to get some government contracts for our failing construction companies, that we Slovenians now own a Gaddafi camel, while he owns a Lipizzaner horse. Man that was some desperate sucking and I feel ashamed that we fell so low. Begging a man who would send fighter bombers against protesters and much more for some small scraps of money to support a company the state and the people have capitalised with expensive low-quality highways.

As far as the Gaddafi address is concerned, that is one more than a deranged man. There are limits to where a sane dictator will go and then there is a self-delusional one, who has no limits. Went on speaking for more than an hour, and went from accusing the protesters from being high to being foreign agents (as usual) and when China decides that it is too dangerous for its nationals to stay in the country, well then you know that the story is as good as finished.

[Oberon]

HMS Cumberland redeploying from the Eastern Med to International waters off Libya. China evacuating its citizens. Gadaffi vows civil war.

Chaos inevitable.

[Gerald]

Gadaffi time has come, now there are those who can give him time to step down voluntarily or by other means

[Oberon]

It all depends on how much of the Libyan army is on his side, and how long he can keep paying those mercenaries. I'd wager he's got a stock of cash saved up for a rainy day, and it's been raining a lot in Tripoli lately.
This could go on for a while, sadly. Unless someone higher up the chain steps in and martyrs him or puts him on a plane to Venezuela with an armed guard.

[Gerald]

It all depends on how much of the Libyan army is on his side, and how long he can keep paying those mercenaries. I'd wager he's got a stock of cash saved up for a rainy day, and it's been raining a lot in Tripoli lately.
This could go on for a while, sadly. Unless someone higher up the chain steps in and martyrs him or puts him on a plane to Venezuela with an armed guard. That's right, your words are quite right in this context, but of course there is a pain threshold :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

HMS Cumberland redeploying from the Eastern Med to International waters off Libya. China evacuating its citizens. Gadaffi vows civil war.

Chaos inevitable.

The Italian Navy is deploying the Elettra one of its AGIs to the area. (http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201102212243-cro-ren1104-govt_confirms_dispatch_of_navy_ship_off_libyan_wat ers)

The Italian frigate Fenice is also in the area.

There are also reports of Oil Rigs off the Libyan coast on fire.

[Gerald]

The Italian Navy is deploying the Elettra one of its AGIs to the area. (http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201102212243-cro-ren1104-govt_confirms_dispatch_of_navy_ship_off_libyan_wat ers)

The Italian frigate Fenice is also in the area.

There are also reports of Oil Rigs off the Libyan coast on fire. Which is good, it puts pressure on Gadaffi, of course, the country's sovereignty, but he have knowledge that other countries with any UN backup to support his defection

[papa_smurf]

Gaddfi defiant in speech:

"He blamed the unrest on "cowards and traitors" who were seeking to portray Libya as a place of chaos and to "humiliate" Libyans. At other points he referred to the protesters as cockroaches or rats and mercenaries."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12544624

[Gerald]

Colonel Gaddafi: ''I will die a martyr at the end'' Who does he think he is, speech reflects fear, uncertainty, and his ultimate end despotic ideas, which he always had

[Krauter]

Just reading the newspaper today during lunch and it seems the whole regions turning to sh!t..

Yemen, Bahrain, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Sudan.. Bloody hell.

Not to mention Egypt just let two Iranian frigates through the Suez Canal. Israel is feeling threatened right about now I bet.

Full article is from the Montreal Gazette. If I find the article online I'll post the link.

[Penguin]

Here is a great link regarding Lybia that I want to share:
You'll find a good summary of the news from many sources, eyewitness reports, vids, even a twitter feed:
http://www.libyafeb17.com/

[Gerald]

Here is a great link regarding Lybia that I want to share:
You'll find a good summary of the news from many sources, eyewitness reports, vids, even a twitter feed:
http://www.libyafeb17.com/ Thanks my friend,good, :yep:

[Gerald]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2011/02/mil-110222-unnews01.htm


Note: Update Record,22 Feb 2011

[krashkart]

UN Issues Pansy-ass Condemnations; Nothing Happens

[Oberon]

Basically. :yep: Business as usual.



2138: The former British foreign secretary Lord Owen, tells the BBC's Newshour that the situation is "a humanitarian disaster". He believes the UN needs to mandate a resolution. "We can't intervene on the ground, but we can stop Gadaffi threatening his own people with his air force."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJMSbkdW26M

:yep:

Bring the Tomcats out of retirement for any Libyan missions!! :smug:

[Castout]

For the Libyans who lost their lives in this evolution, the martyrs and for those who courageously help their fellow men and stand against oppression this song. You are truly the eagles transformed. :yep:. Yes they, the little people are the eagles transformed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtFqQ1K0Ils


http://www.enr.gov.nt.ca/_live/images/rad/golden_eagle.jpg

[Jimbuna]

This may well end up in a civil war unless sufficient elements of the armed forces defect/change sides.

I wonder just how loyal they are? :hmmm:

[Castout]

The West could do a lot more than what they already have. This is the people's movement. They actually look up to the west instead China or some other country because this is a movement towards democracy say what you want otherwise.

But the west seems reluctant because they've befriended Gaddafi to a degree.

US and Europe will get much more if they help these Libyans. UN need to have troops on the ground ASAP. Gaddafi already said he would clean Libya house to house if he need to. If the West let these Libyan people die you can be sure there will be a strong anti west sentiment in Libya afterward and lose the oil say to China who is conveniently not saying anything. The Libyans are going to have their way like it or not, one way or another and if you help them now to get them easier US and Europe will in the end be helping themselves too and preserve their oil interests there and gain a lot of new friends in the middle east. SIDE with the people. It's the right and smart thing to do. Not often those two come together. These eagles need not to die more in neglect. They are far more useful for their country alive than dead obviously and there are not many of these kind of people in the world who have spread their wings. Speeches are useless they need ACTION, they need help ASAP.

[Gerald]

Libyan envoy to the UN Ibrahim Dabbashi: UN condemnation "not strong enough"

The UN Security Council has condemned the Libyan authorities for using force against protesters, calling for those responsible to be held to account.

In a statement, the council demanded an immediate end to the violence and said Libya's rulers had to "address the legitimate demands of the population".

Nearly 300 people have been killed so far, according to Human Rights Watch.

Earlier, Col Muammar Gaddafi urged his supporters to attack the "cockroaches" and "rats" protesting against his rule.

Anyone who took up arms against Libya would be executed, he warned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12548520


Note: Update Record,23 February 2011 Last updated at 05:09 GMT

[Castout]

Pro Mubarak mob or rather mercenaries are breaking into people's home.

You could imagine if it was your own home they broke into.

The more I live the more I see that 21st century isn't much more than medieval age with gadgets and fake governing systems. Just kings with fancy name such as president or prime minister. Men's life still cheap and rights is largely a fiction to an ordinary man.

[Gerald]

What is going on there, is often far from reality for some people, then it could be a hidden reality perception

[Gerald]

Pressure has mounted on isolated Libyan ruler Col Muammar Gaddafi after a chorus of international condemnation and resignations by top officials.

The man considered the colonel's number two, Interior Minister Abdel Fattah Younes al-Abidi, is among senior figures who have joined the opposition.

Gunfire in Tripoli

After a week of upheaval, protesters backed by defecting army units are thought to have almost the entire eastern half of Libya under their control.

At least 300 people have died in the uprising, although Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told reporters in Rome a death toll of 1,000 was more "credible".

Mr Frattini also told Corriere della Sera newspaper he feared an immigrant exodus on a "biblical scale" if Col Gaddafi was toppled, predicting up to 300,000 Libyans could flee.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy meanwhile called for the European Union to adopt "swift and concrete sanctions" and to suspend ties with Libya.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12550719

Note Update Record,23 February 2011 Last updated at 13:14 GMT

[krashkart]

I certainly hope the West has made plans to throw in long term support for the entire region, for obvious reasons. Ideally support that is very much of mutual benefit. :yep:


I find it a little odd that Gadaffi would accuse "bearded men" -- among all the others he's accused -- for the troubles. I 'misunderestimated' him. :O:


Edit: Hats off to the UN for yet another pusillanimous statement. Bravo! :yeah:

[TLAM Strike]

I find it a little odd that Gadaffi would accuse "bearded men" -- among all the others he's accused -- for the troubles. I 'misunderestimated' him. :O:

Its bat**** crazy statements like that make us love him! :yeah:

Qaddafi; hand down my favorite middle eastern dictator. I'm going to miss him... :haha:

[Gerald]

Its bat**** crazy statements like that make us love him! :yeah:

Qaddafi; hand down my favorite middle eastern dictator. I'm going to miss him... :haha: Yes,sure u gone miss him :03:

[krashkart]

Its bat**** crazy statements like that make us love him! :yeah:

Qaddafi; hand down my favorite middle eastern dictator. I'm going to miss him... :haha:

:rotfl2:

[Gerald]

Libyan leader stands his ground.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4553098/qaddafi-vows-to-fight-on-part-1/?playlist_id=86857



Note:Update Record, Feb 23, 2011

[Castout]

Death toll 1,000 unarmed Libyans dead and counting more every hour the international community is letting this to continue.

Gaddafi is going out one way or another. When he does Libya evolution is probably going to be one of the last in the Arab world that succeed. Slow and minimum real action will only hurt the West in the end.

It's probably better to arm these protesters in the end at least that way they would die defending their lives instead giving them away.

[Gerald]

His destiny, if we are going to use the word, I think the situation is to flee or be arrested or a misplaced rounds

[Tribesman]

It's probably better to arm these protesters in the end at least that way they would die defending their lives instead giving them away.
But if both sides are armed then where can the reporters stand without getting shot at?

[Castout]

But if both sides are armed then where can the reporters stand without getting shot at?

Everybody needs an AK :O:. I'd rather that these protesters die after a shootout than die without. Or better win in a shootout. Than being a victim of indiscriminate shootout which would make women and children victims as well. . .(women and old people are among the protesters because it's a people's movement)

[Gerald]

Libya protests analysis: ‘For Muammar Gaddafi it’s kill or be killed‘

[Penguin]

But if both sides are armed then where can the reporters stand without getting shot at?

Arm the reporters too!
So if they have nothing to shoot, they can shoot at somebody and the shoot it.
(hope my pun attempt didn't fail completely)

Just like this reporter clown we had here in the 90's. He hired some village nazis, dressed them up in white hoods, let them dance around a campfire and filmed it to prove that the KKK is active in Germany. He got good money for it - sadly he lost most in the fraud trial...:DL

[Gerald]

Some journalists are armed and have even own bodyguards with amplification weapons

[Castout]

Just like this reporter clown we had here in the 90's. He hired some village nazis, dressed them up in white hoods, let them dance around a campfire and filmed it to prove that the KKK is active in Germany. He got good money for it - sadly he lost most in the fraud trial...:DL

:haha: Just lost most? I'd hope he lost all and then some

very creative of him it's called news inventing lol

[TLAM Strike]

Stuff I saw on the BBC tonight.

Libyan citizens have taken a Libyan military airbase that was used to staging point for foreign mercenaries and captured a number of MiG-27 Fighter-Bombers. They also liberated a fortified SA-2 Site.

Also a pair of pilots bailed out of their jet over the desert rather than bomb civilians.

Qaddafi apparently still has loyal forces armed with Mi-24 gunships and Su-22 Fitter bombers.

[Oberon]

An SA-2 site...trés interessant...

You know, the evil conniving SOB in me is tugging at my arm and saying that if they happened to shoot down a civilian evacuating airline with an SA-2 and claim it was Gadaffi then a lot of their hard work would be done for them courtesy of the USAF.... :hmmm:

[Gerald]

British oil worker Bryan Richards describes scenes of 'mass hysteria' at Tripoli Airport (The amateur video accompanying this interview is purportedly recent footage of the scene in Libya)

The area controlled by Libya's embattled leader Col Muammar Gaddafi is shrinking, reports say, as the opposition consolidates its gains.

Witnesses say the capital, Tripoli, is heavily guarded by pro-Gaddafi forces, with tanks deployed in the suburbs.

Videos on the internet suggest a town 50km (30 miles) west of Tripoli has fallen to anti-government forces.

Thousands of foreigners are meanwhile still trying to flee Libya through ports, airports and overland.

The US, China and many European countries have sent in planes, ships and ferries to help people flee.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12564104

Note: Update Record, 24 February 2011 Last updated at 09:56 GMT

[krashkart]

An SA-2 site...trés interessant...

You know, the evil conniving SOB in me is tugging at my arm and saying that if they happened to shoot down a civilian evacuating airline with an SA-2 and claim it was Gadaffi then a lot of their hard work would be done for them courtesy of the USAF.... :hmmm:


You've been playing one of the Superpower games, haven't you. :hmmm::O:

[Oberon]

You've been playing one of the Superpower games, haven't you. :hmmm::O:

Nope, I'm just an evil mastermind... :haha:

[Gerald]

Nope, I'm just an evil mastermind... :haha: With your "mastermind", how do you think the continued troubles will go, in Libya?

[August]

An SA-2 site...trés interessant...

You know, the evil conniving SOB in me is tugging at my arm and saying that if they happened to shoot down a civilian evacuating airline with an SA-2 and claim it was Gadaffi then a lot of their hard work would be done for them courtesy of the USAF.... :hmmm:


If Reagan were president yeah but the Carter clone we have in the White House now would not do anything besides issue a, belated, weakly worded condemnation.

[Tribesman]

If Reagan were president yeah but the Carter clone we have in the White House now would not do anything besides issue a, belated, weakly worded condemnation.
If there was a Reagan clone in the white house he would probably invade Belize, support Daffy and sell missiles to Bin-Laden:yeah:

[MH]

If there was a Reagan clone in the white house he would probably invade Belize, support Daffy and sell missiles to Bin-Laden:yeah:

See you can be a problem solver when you think:yeah:
Oh yes Obama condemned Duffy thats just WOW......

[papa_smurf]

Latest from the world of Gaddafi:
Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told state TV that Osama Bin Laden and his followers are to blame for the protests wracking his country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279

[Tribesman]

Oh yes Obama condemned Duffy thats just WOW......
Maybe he liked her first song and realises now that her voice is terrible.

[MH]

Maybe he liked her first song and realises now that her voice is terrible.
Maybe he is just polite....

Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told state TV that Osama Bin Laden and his followers are to blame for the protests wracking his country.

Libya is a tribal country so its difficult to figure who will be the next dictator.

[joea]

Latest from the world of Gaddafi:


Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told state TV that Osama Bin Laden and his followers are to blame for the protests wracking his country.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279


OMG this is :har: but then it makes me :wah: :damn:


Would one of his amazons put him out of his misery? :nope:

[redsocialist]

OMG this is :har: but then it makes me :wah: :damn:


Would one of his amazons put him out of his misery? :nope:

LOL in this case he would be refering to the CIA :hmmm:

[MH]

LOL in this case he would be refering to the CIA :hmmm:

Eventually CIA may need to back one of the tribes or the insanity may last for years to come.

[Jimbuna]

Latest from the world of Gaddafi:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279

Well that is rather rich coming from him :DL

[Oberon]

Chances of a no fly zone being imposed over Libya by the USAF is rising by the day. :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Chances of a no fly zone being imposed over Libya by the USAF is rising by the day. :hmmm: He going to the desert...

[TLAM Strike]

Photos of captured Libyan Gear...
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3470/800xj.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1566/800xz.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1610/800xg.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2971/800xp.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5373/800xc.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8216/800xec.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8765/800xio.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7122/800xm.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8131/800xr.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2627/800xt.jpg
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/840/800xd.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5373/800xc.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6118/800xv.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1472/800xya.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9093/800xk.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1461/800xx.jpg
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7748/800xfw.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1389/800xy.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7849/800xf.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8131/800xr.jpg

[TLAM Strike]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5529/800xtf.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3426/800xh.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9462/800xu.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2226/800xe.jpg

[Skybird]

Der Tagesspiegel
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9676/68349374.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/68349374.jpg/)
.............................."The last rattle of a dead" .......................

[Gerald]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5529/800xtf.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3426/800xh.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9462/800xu.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2226/800xe.jpg Great photo working,:DL

[August]

My my there's a lot of Commie equipment in Kadaffys inventory.

[Gerald]

BENGHAZI, Libya – Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi vowed to triumph over his enemies on Friday, and told supporters in Tripoli's Green Square that he would open arsenals "when necessary" to arm the Libyan people against the "enemy."

"We can crush any enemy. We can crush it with the people's will. The people are armed and when necessary, we will open arsenals to arm all the Libyan people and all Libyan tribes."

"Get ready to fight for Libya, get ready to fight for dignity, get ready to fight for petroleum," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/25/libyan-protesters-new-push-qaddafi/

Note: Update Record,Published February 25, 2011

[joea]

My my there's a lot of Commie equipment in Kadaffys inventory.

Yup, most of it junk but plenty lethal to kill civilian protesters. :down:

[Rockstar]

My my there's a lot of Commie equipment in Kadaffys inventory.


I was expecting to see more U.S. and British weapons. Must be CIA plants and cover up photos used here in an attempt to mislead us. Still, I'd like to get my paws on a few those toys.

[joea]

Chavez speaks:

http://english.eluniversal.com/2011/02/25/president-chavez-takes-a-stance-on-libya.shtml

In a message posted on Thursday evening on his Twitter account, Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez voiced his support to Libya and said that Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi was facing a civil war.

"Let's go, Foreign Minister Nicolás (Maduro), give another lesson to the far-right Yankee supporters! Long live Libya and its independence! Gaddafi is facing a civil war!" Chávez wrote at the end of a session at the National Assembly (AN), where some Venezuelan ministers gave an account of their 2010 management, DPA reported.

As appears from this message, Chávez would join Cuba's Fidel Castro and Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega, the only leaders in the region in support of Gaddafi. The Libyan ruler faces a popular revolt where the death toll reaches hundreds of Libyans.

In September 2009, on the occasion of the Africa-South America Summit held on Margarita Island, Chávez decorated Gaddafi and presented him with a replica of a sword used by Venezuelan independence hero Simón Bolívar.

:x:down: Standing up for the common people indeed.

[Skybird]

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1914/libya-outrage

Obama and many others in the international community have been quicker in condemning settlement construction in Israel than atrocities by Arab dictators against innocent civilians.

Has retired South African judge Richard Goldstone considered the possibility of heading a special commission of inquiry to look into the war crimes that are being perpetrated against Libyans and other Arabs?

Settlements may be a problem, but they are not more dangerous than the massacres that are being perpetrated against Arabs.

It took President Barack Obama nine days to condemn Col. Muammar Gaddafi’s massacres in Libya as “outrageous” and “unacceptable.”

It took the UN Security Council more than a week to hold a closed-door meeting and issue a tempered statement condemning the violence in Libya and calling for its immediate end and for those responsible to be held accountable.

This is the same Security Council that one week earlier held a special and open session to condemn construction in Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

Fourteen out of fifteen members of the council voted in support of the anti-settlement resolution, which was vetoed by the US.

The same members, however, saw no need to hold a vote on the slaughtering of thousands of Libyans by Gaddafi.

But both Obama and the Security Council stopped short of calling for Gaddafi’s removal from power for perpetrating atrocities against his own people.

The Europeans have also been cautious in their response to the carnage in Libya. They too have refrained from calling for regime change in Libya.
One can understand why Americans and Europeans are worried about their economic interests in Libya, especially with regard to oil. It is also likely that the West is embarrassed about its relationship with the Libyan dictator who, despite his crimes, was welcomed back into the international community in 2003.

Then, Gaddafi was apparently forgiven for his role in the Lockerbie plane explosion and support for countless terror groups in the Arab and Islamic world. Gaddafi was forgiven because he had agreed to abandon his nuclear ambitions and promised to be good..

Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak, on the other hand, who for over 30 years served Western interests in the Middle East and did his utmost to preserve the peace treaty with Israel and support moderate Arabs and Muslims, was thrown to the dogs by the Obama Administration as soon as his people started demanding regime change.

Obama and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton seem to be more troubled by the death of 300 Egyptians than the brutal massacring of thousands of Libyans. Obama and Clinton seem to be more worried about construction in Jewish settlements than war crimes and serious human rights violations in the Arab world.

The US Administration and the rest of the international community have once again sent a message to the Arabs that they do not really care about human rights and democracy and that they are ready to sacrifice thousands of Arabs to keep the oil prices as low as ever. Mubarak was unfortunate because his country does not have oil.

Now at least the Arab people know that they can no longer rely on Obama and Clinton to support any of their pro-democracy movements

[Gerald]

The whole process has gone too slowly

[papa_smurf]

Latest from Gaddafi:
"We shall destroy any aggression with popular will," he said. "With the armed people, when necessary we will open the weapons depots. So that all the Libyan people, all the Libyan tribes can be armed. Libya will become a red flame, a burning coal."

This can only end badly, and all the while the UN dithers about what to do.

[Gerald]

People in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, are braced for further battles after the country's leader, Col Muammar Gaddafi, said he would open weapons depots to arm his supporters.

The evacuation of thousands of foreign workers continues by air, by sea and overland, but some remain trapped.

The US has blocked transactions involving the assets of Col Gaddafi and some close associates.

The UN estimates more than 1,000 have died in the 10-day-old revolt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12587078


Note: Update Record,26 February 2011 Last updated at 12:12 GMT

[Sailor Steve]

...and all the while the UN dithers about what to do.
But that's what the UN does best.

[Gerald]

RAF Hercules planes rescue 150 from Libya desert.

Two RAF Hercules have rescued about 150 workers from the Libyan desert, as protests against Col Gaddafi continue.

The planes, carrying Britons and other foreign nationals, have reached Malta.

Meanwhile, the last government-chartered flight on which Britons could escape has left Tripoli and the British embassy there has suspended operations.

However, it is thought that some 300 British citizens remain in desert camps in Libya and a Royal Navy frigate is heading to the port town of Benghazi.
'Military assets'

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said the "extremely complex" operation to rescue civilians from the desert had taken days to plan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12588947


Note: 26 February 2011 Last updated at 20:52 GMT

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12589434

Note: Update Record,27 February 2011 Last updated at 08:36 GMT

[Gerald]

Libya's border with Tunisia is being overrun with migrants, many of them from Egypt, fleeing turmoil in Libya, aid workers say.

A UN refugee official told the BBC that 20,000 Egyptians were stranded and needed food and shelter. Many are sleeping in the open despite the cold.

Some Egyptian refugees staged protests shouting: "We want to go home."

About 100,000 people have fled anti-government unrest in Libya over the past week, the UN estimates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12591935

Note:Update Record,27 February 2011 Last updated at 19:36 GMT

[Jimbuna]

Thank you Reuters.

[Gerald]

Thank you Reuters. Yes,and.....?

[Gerald]

Here plundered Gaddafi house

http://i.imgur.com/TSR7G.jpg

[krashkart]

Things keep shaking up over there, there won't be any place left for refugees to run. :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Things keep shaking up over there, there won't be any place left for refugees to run. :hmmm: He has some places in the desert as the last outpost, if he does not leave the country otherwise

[krashkart]

He has some places in the desert as the last outpost, if he does not leave the country otherwise


I'm referring to the Libyan and Egyptian refugees running to Tunisia. If the flames of revolution continue to spread across North Africa there won't be any place left for them to go, except deeper south into Africa or north across the Mediterranean. :yep:

[Gerald]

I'm referring to the Libyan and Egyptian refugees running to Tunisia. If the flames of revolution continue to spread across North Africa there won't be any place left for them to go, except deeper south into Africa or north across the Mediterranean. :yep: Yes,that's true,maybe is go over to Algeria?

[krashkart]

Yes,that's true,maybe is go over to Algeria?

I got to thinking about that last night -- there are only two or three countries left up there that haven't gone up in revolt, right? (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) How well do those governments treat their people? :06:

[August]

I got to thinking about that last night -- there are only two or three countries left up there that haven't gone up in revolt, right? (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) How well do those governments treat their people? :06:

I thought Tunisia already had it's revolt?

[krashkart]

I thought Tunisia already had it's revolt?


Did they? I guess that only leaves two then. :hmmm:

[Gerald]

I got to thinking about that last night -- there are only two or three countries left up there that haven't gone up in revolt, right? (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) How well do those governments treat their people? :06: Algeria,'re a turbulent country with many events, and the people enslaved, unfortunately,Morocco is more naturally if one wants to use that term, except that there are many cells of terror that exists in the country,Tunisia i have have been there and there was a time when you can ride a horse along the beach which is currently perhaps I should avoid..

[Gerald]

Did they? I guess that only leaves two then. :hmmm: Or otherwise, transfer land!

[TLAM Strike]

I thought Tunisia already had it's revolt?
Tunisia was the 1st.

There has been a little trouble reported in Morocco and Oman.

[Gerald]

Weapons were flown from Belarus to Libya in mid-February. And the Libyan government plane has a few days time the two had flown to Belarus, possibly with diamonds Gaddafi wants to secure for an escape.

[Jimbuna]

The plot simply thickens....suprised it wasn't tought to be flying to Argentina or South America :DL

[Gerald]

The situation on Libya's border with Tunisia has reached crisis point, as tens of thousands of foreigners flee unrest in the country, the UN says.

Aid workers seem unable to cope, with new refugees pouring in as quickly as others cross over, say correspondents.

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has told Western journalists he is loved by his people and denied protests in Tripoli.

His interview came amid reports that he is attempting to regain control of rebel areas in western Libya.

Col Gaddafi is facing a massive challenge to his 41-year rule, with protesters in control of towns in the east.

Witnesses said pro-Gaddafi forces tried to retake the western cities of Zawiya, Misrata and Nalut on Monday but were repulsed by rebels helped by defecting army units.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855

Note; Update Record,1 March 2011 Last updated at 11:21 GMT

[Skybird]

I hope that there will be no smarthead in Brussel having the idea to dleiver weapins to the rebel side. Becasue when it is over, they will not jjust recollect those weapons, but they will stay there.

However, NATO maybe shpould send an emissary to the rebel side and ask whether or not they would welcome and accept airstrikes in form of CAS. If yes, then send in some planes - you can always legitimately refer to that the Lybians have asked for that kind of help. If they say No, then stay the hell out of there business.

Just do not deliver them weapons.

And if Ghaddafi should win this fight, however unlikely that seems to be, then assassinate him and the members of his clan (who are not any less powerhungry and unscrupellous and bastardish like he is himself) at next opportunity, or send them a bombastic greeting via airmail that takes them away.

[Gerald]

I hope that there will be no smarthead in Brussel having the idea to dleiver weapins to the rebel side. Becasue when it is over, they will not jjust recollect those weapons, but they will stay there.

However, NATO maybe shpould send an emissary to the rebel side and ask whether or not they would welcome and accept airstrikes in form of CAS. If yes, then send in some planes - you can always legitimately refer to that the Lybians have asked for that kind of help. If they say No, then stay the hell out of there business.

Just do not deliver them weapons.

And if Ghaddafi should win this fight, however unlikely that seems to be, then assassinate him and the members of his clan (who are not any less powerhungry and unscrupellous and bastardish like he is himself) at next opportunity, or send them a bombastic greeting via airmail that takes them away. Good point! Arms are out in abundance and create more problems than what might require

[tater]

Someone should find that f**k released from Scotland and put a bullet in his head (or JDAM through the roof) as well since his prostate cancer is not nearly as terminal as claimed.

[Tribesman]

Someone should find that f**k released from Scotland and put a bullet in his head (or JDAM through the roof) as well since his prostate cancer is not nearly as terminal as claimed.

Sorry Tater, but they had to let him go or face going through a retrial where most of the evidence presented had already fallen apart.
The "terminal cancer" was just a way for Britain and the US to save face.

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12607478

[TLAM Strike]

Someone should find that f**k released from Scotland and put a bullet in his head (or JDAM through the roof) as well since his prostate cancer is not nearly as terminal as claimed.

That would be letting that SOB off too easy. :nope:

37 of those killed on 103 were students from my region. :down:

[Gerald]

That would be letting that SOB off too easy. :nope:

37 of those killed on 103 were students from my region. :down: Sorry to hear that!

[Rockstar]

I am way confused now. I never heard much of Qaddafi when suddenly there was rebellion in the streets. Over night the a call was made and people were jumping on the freedom train to oust this evil dictator.

Now the UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record. Commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."


WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OVER

:doh: :06: :doh: :06: :doh:

[TLAM Strike]

I am way confused now. I never heard much of Qaddafi when suddenly there was rebellion in the streets. Over night the a call was made and people were jumping on the freedom train to oust this evil dictator.

Now the UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record. Commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."


WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OVER

:doh: :06: :doh: :06: :doh:

Just take a look at who is on the US HRC. Countries like Angola, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bahrain, PRC, Cuba, Uganda, Nigeria and Russia. :roll:

[MH]

I am way confused now. I never heard much of Qaddafi when suddenly there was rebellion in the streets. Over night the a call was made and people were jumping on the freedom train to oust this evil dictator.

Now the UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record. Commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."


WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OVER

:doh: :06: :doh: :06: :doh:

UN is like MTV with its popularity bilboard.
Needs to keep raiting high.

[Gerald]

The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has said he will investigate Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, his sons and senior aides for crimes against humanity.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo said no-one had the right to massacre civilians.

Thousands of people are thought to have died in the violence after security forces targeted protesters in unrest which began on 17 February.

Col Gaddafi vowed to fight on despite losing control of much of the country.

Earlier on Wednesday, his forces launched air strikes on the oil terminal town of Brega, sources in the town said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12636798

Note: Update Record,3 March 2011 Last updated at 13:41 GMT

[Bilge_Rat]

I am way confused now. I never heard much of Qaddafi when suddenly there was rebellion in the streets. Over night the a call was made and people were jumping on the freedom train to oust this evil dictator.

Now the UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record. Commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."


WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OVER

:doh: :06: :doh: :06: :doh:

The UN Human Rights Council is a joke.

They elected Libya to it 1-2 years ago. China , Cuba, Saudi Arabia and many other countries with poor human rights records are members. The council spends almost all its time condemning Israel and never investigates anyone else.

[joea]

I am way confused now. I never heard much of Qaddafi when suddenly there was rebellion in the streets. Over night the a call was made and people were jumping on the freedom train to oust this evil dictator.

Now the UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record. Commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."


WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OVER

:doh: :06: :doh: :06: :doh:

Umm do you have a link?

[Dowly]

Umm do you have a link?

Indeed. The last I heard, Libya was kicked out of UN Human Rights Council yesterday. :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Indeed. The last I heard, Libya was kicked out of UN Human Rights Council yesterday. :hmmm: That's true :yep:

[Gerald]

Talks are under way to free a Dutch helicopter crew captured in Libya trying to evacuate foreign citizens, the Netherlands' defence ministry says.

The three marines landed their Lynx near the port of Sirte on Sunday, flying in from the Dutch warship Tromp, which is anchored off the Libyan coast.

"Intensive negotiations" were under way, a ministry spokesman said.

The ministry was in contact with the marines who were "doing well under the circumstances", he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12633415

Note: Update Record,3 March 2011 Last updated at 15:07 GMT

[Skybird]

This German article (http://http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,748911,00.html)so far has not been tzranslated for the international edition of Der Spiegel. It analyses Lybia's air force, coming to results that nobody can like. The Air Force is Gaddafi'S elite force, he payed them well and only absolutely loyal men had the chance to join it. On the other ahnd, the ground forces are conscripts and thus include many members from tribes that traditonally are hostile to Gaddafi - that'S why he never trusted the army and why indeed many troops so far have chnaged sides. But, so the article, so far Gaddafi has not unleashed his air force, but just ordered testing attacks. If he orders full air war against the rebels, then the rebels have nbpthing to put up against that, leaving the air force free to commit a massacre amongst them. Esp0ecially when marching against Tripoli, they must expect to get under massive fire from both bombers and attack gunships. Also, the transportation squadrons also stand loyal to Gaddafi, leaving him the option to shift mercenary forces fast and quickly.

The EU probably will not start to consider air operations in Lybia before the Lybian air force already has wiped out half of the rebel forces. But if this article is right, then we need to lauch a NATO airwar against the Lybian air force right now - before it can bring down the rebellion. If we do not will to this, then all our glorious talking about freedom for Lybia and that the evil man has to go, is just deceptive, meaningless lies. Either we stand by the meaning of our words, or we shut up and shall not even dare to mourn the victims of our passivity.

What worth has NATO, if it cannot manage to quickly adapt to this situation and shift forces to Europe's south and handle an enemy like the Lybian air force...?

Rebel forces have asked for foreign military help meanwhile, btw.

They consist of a few defected soldiers, and then civilians now carrying a gun. Go figure.

Yesterday, I heared the Green chief idiot of the German parliament's commission for humanitarian issues, or something like that, philosophising that military action is not needed and that we just should throw in helpers and money and aid. All hints that these efforts need to be militarily protected, or that Gaddafi has played foul on foreign aid and helper so often, he wiped off the table. - Good intentions and symbolic acts alone means nothing, dumbhead. You have to secure the means to realise them, and to protect their gains.

We do not need another Dutch helicopter crew being taken prisoner because they were surprised that it was a warzone they were entering.

[Castout]

Yeah NATO should commit air strike as soon as possible. Would be better if it was the Arab League. But I've found that it seems Arab League couldn't be expected to help at all.

[joea]

Indeed. The last I heard, Libya was kicked out of UN Human Rights Council yesterday. :hmmm:


Yup:

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/15/index.htm

There are links to resoulutions suspending Libya and expressing "concern about the situation bla bla bla" and recall that most Libyan diplomats have defected against Ghadaffi.

My point was just that people should not make unsubstantiated statements. Some here are worse than others.

[Gerald]

Embattled Libyan ruler Col Muammar Gaddafi's bastion in Tripoli is on edge amid opposition calls for protests after Friday noon prayers.

Forces loyal to Col Gaddafi have set up checkpoints in a flashpoint area of the capital, while some foreign journalists were barred from leaving their hotel.

Government forces have launched new air strikes on rebel territory in the east.

The revolt, which broke out in mid-February to end Col Gaddafi's 41-year rule, appears to have reached deadlock.
Secret police

A reporter in Tajoura, an eastern suburb of the capital where clashes took place last week, said the atmosphere was incredibly tense.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12644435

Note: Update Record,4 March 2011 Last updated at 11:36 GMT

[Oberon]

Meanwhile:

Harwich: Libyan cash worth £100 million seized from ship

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/harwich_libyan_cash_worth_100_million_seized_from_ ship_1_820068

[Jimbuna]

That's a lie...the money belongs to me!! :stare:

[Gerald]

That's a lie...the money belongs to me!! :stare: :haha:

[Gerald]

Members of the Tuareg community in Mali say a large number of men from the Tuareg ethnic group have left Mali in the last week to join pro-Gaddafi forces in Libya.

"About 2-300 have left in the last seven days," said a senior elected official, who did not want to be named, from the Kidal region in the north of the country, where many Tuareg live.

Another Tuareg man from Kidal said: "It's true many young men are leaving. It all started about a week back."

He said he had spoken to a convoy of 40 vehicles who are in southern Algeria waiting to cross the border into Libya.

The elected official said: "They are being paid about $10,000 (£6,000) to join up and then I've heard they are being told that they will get $1,000 a day to fight."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12647115


Note: Update Record,4 March 2011 Last updated at 13:33 GMT

[Gerald]

The crew of a Dutch navy helicopter are shown on Libyan state TV after being captured while attempting an evacuation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12645675

Note,Update Record,4 March 2011 Last updated at 18:45 GMT

[Jimbuna]

Thank you Reuters

[Gerald]

Thank you Reuters There was so little so, Reuters is bountiful with ham..

[Jimbuna]

There was so little so, Reuters is bountiful with ham..

'Ham'?....so many of us think it is 'spam' :DL

[Gerald]

'Ham'?....so many of us think it is 'spam' :DL Hmmm..:hmm2: maybe,maybe not......yes :DL

[Gerald]

Rebels in Libya say they have repelled an attempt by government forces to retake the key city of Zawiya, just 50km (30 miles) west of Tripoli.

Following heavy fighting on Saturday morning, government forces were pushed out of the city centre, though recent reports suggest they have regrouped and may be preparing for a fresh assault.

The number of casualties is unclear.

Meanwhile, rebels fighting Col Muammar Gaddafi have taken control of the port of Ras Lanuf to the east of Tripoli.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12654670

Note: Update Record,5 March 2011 Last updated at 12:48 GMT