Sh3 engine versus Sh4 need your light?

[Hans Witteman]

Hi shipmates,

Since i never try or play with SH4 i would love to ear your opinions on the pro and con of possibly porting my mod to Sh4.

I mean by that what would be the greatest drawbacks and difficulty to do the campaign and adding all boat from the Atlantic theater?

Is there more limitations from the SH4 engine than SH3?

I am waiting for your view on the matter.

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

Besides having better graphics, SH4 also has automatic crew management. It also runs better. I can't run SH3 above 1024 TC without having major problems. I can run SH4 up to 4096 TC with no problem at all. SH4 also only loads a 6-month period surrounding the start date, rather than loading the whole war, so it loads faster and runs smoother. I've been playing Operation Monsun for awhile, and it's a very nice campaign, but none of the cool SH3 stuff is there. The harbors are pretty naked, and none of the cool things like Privateer's blimps have been ported into SH4.

I have felt for a long time that it is by far the better platform for all these mods.

But of course that's just my opinion. :sunny:

[Hans Witteman]

Besides having better graphics, SH4 also has automatic crew management. It also runs better. I can't run SH3 above 1024 TC without having major problems. I can run SH4 up to 4096 TC with no problem at all. SH4 also only loads a 6-month period surrounding the start date, rather than loading the whole war, so it loads faster and runs smoother. I've been playing Operation Monsun for awhile, and it's a very nice campaign, but none of the cool SH3 stuff is there. The harbors are pretty naked, and none of the cool things like Privateer's blimps have been ported into SH4.

I have felt for a long time that it is by far the better platform for all these mods.

But of course that's just my opinion. :sunny:

Hi mate,

Thank for your quick reply, i am looking at the possibility SH4 offer versus SH3 but i would like to have modders point of view on the feasibility of porting all assets from Sh3 Atlantic theater to Sh4.

By reading old threads i saw that the GWX was trying to do so but they abandoned the project because of Ubisoft SH5 but i wonder if maybe they just saw that the amount of work required would have been too much?

I think the only answer i will get is that i buy myself a copy and start analyzing file structure to see where the biggest drawbacks are!

If thing could be done without too much difficulty i might consider it seriously.

Best regards Hans

[CCIP]

I agree with Steve. By and large, you have to realize that SH4 is more or less the same engine as SHIII, but with a few mechanical additions and a much nicer set of graphical features. It's got a much better and more flexible campaign structure. It generally performs much better, and is more adaptable hardware-wise. It is more stable and less glitchy, especially when it comes to time compression and saved games. It also received better official patching support (mostly because of the expansion), and while there are a couple of annoying issues left over, it is all in all in a substantially better stock condition than SHIII.

SHIII's advantage over SH4, development-wise, has nothing to do with the game engine itself. It's the fact that SHIII has been developed much further by modders and there is a bigger base of stuff to build on, and a somewhat bigger community supporting it.

[Hans Witteman]

I agree with Steve. By and large, you have to realize that SH4 is more or less the same engine as SHIII, but with a few mechanical additions and a much nicer set of graphical features. It's got a much better and more flexible campaign structure. It generally performs much better, and is more adaptable hardware-wise. It is more stable and less glitchy, especially when it comes to time compression and saved games. It also received better official patching support (mostly because of the expansion), and while there are a couple of annoying issues left over, it is all in all in a substantially better stock condition than SHIII.

SHIII's advantage over SH4, development-wise, has nothing to do with the game engine itself. It's the fact that SHIII has been developed much further by modders and there is a bigger base of stuff to build on, and a somewhat bigger community supporting it.

Hi mate,

Thank for giving your point of view but i still think my best option will be to buy myself a copy and see how hard it would be to implemented a full Atlantic theater campaign.

I forgot to ask if there is support for dynamic shadows and normal bump for all ext and int parts??

Thank for the feedback greatly appreciated:up:

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

Personally, I prefer the graphics of SH3. Something about SH4 turns me off, but can't exactly pinpoint what.

[Hans Witteman]

Personally, I prefer the graphics of SH3. Something about SH4 turns me off, but can't exactly pinpoint what.

Hi mate,

You have a point here and i think i know what is it, after looking at some videos on youtube it look like there is a bloom effect that is overdone washing out the graphic and i agree with you if i compared SH3 to Sh4 side by side picture i prefer SH3!

But this could possibly be tweak on the SH4 engine and i know SH4 have a shader folder so we can possibly write our own just a tough:hmmm:

I am just looking at all options available to give us the best of everything.

Best regards Hans

[megadan]

Howdy Hans, Lurker or wclear would be the people to ask:up:Lurker who made opmonsun megamod and w clear also ported a lot from sh3 into sh4 for his uboot mod The problem with silent hunter 4 graphics r the reflections and a lack of atmosphere compared to sh3

[Reece]

The only thing I have against SH3 is the widescreen problem, there are mods to suit 16:9 but none so far for 16:10.:hmmm:
SH4 needs a LOT of work to change to Atlantic theater, plus although the u-boat buoyancy has been improved it still needs work IMO, also the zombie men annoy me, but this is just my opinion! other than that I would probably prefer SH4.:yep: Again setting up an Atlantic Campaign like SH3 would be a HUGE job.:hmmm:

[Robin40]

Hi mate,

You have a point here and i think i know what is it, after looking at some videos on youtube it look like there is a bloom effect that is overdone washing out the graphic and i agree with you if i compared SH3 to Sh4 side by side picture i prefer SH3!

But this could possibly be tweak on the SH4 engine and i know SH4 have a shader folder so we can possibly write our own just a tough:hmmm:

I am just looking at all options available to give us the best of everything.

Best regards Hans

yep...I like SH3 graphics better than SH4 one...

[Hans Witteman]

Howdy Hans, Lurker or wclear would be the people to ask:up:Lurker who made opmonsun megamod and w clear also ported a lot from sh3 into sh4 for his uboot mod The problem with silent hunter 4 graphics r the reflections and a lack of atmosphere compared to sh3


Hi mate,

Thank for pointing me to modders who already know more than me on SH4.

I also think SH3 look better but this is only my humble opinion:salute:

Best regards Hans

[CCIP]

SH4 needs a LOT of work to change to Atlantic theater, plus although the u-boat buoyancy has been improved it still needs work IMO, also the zombie men annoy me, but this is just my opinion! other than that I would probably prefer SH4.:yep: Again setting up an Atlantic Campaign like SH3 would be a HUGE job.:hmmm:

What part of the atlantic campaign does OM not get right? IMO at least campaign-design wise (in terms of traffic and mission areas), OM is easily the best, or at least most historically-accurate Atlantic campaign of any SH version. And I say that as someone who's worked pretty substantially on SHIII's campaign layers.

[Robin40]

Hey...someone edited my avatar in my profile:x

How can I modify i?

[Hans Witteman]

The only thing I have against SH3 is the widescreen problem, there are mods to suit 16:9 but none so far for 16:10.:hmmm:
SH4 needs a LOT of work to change to Atlantic theater, plus although the u-boat buoyancy has been improved it still needs work IMO, also the zombie men annoy me, but this is just my opinion! other than that I would probably prefer SH4.:yep: Again setting up an Atlantic Campaign like SH3 would be a HUGE job.:hmmm:


Hi Reece,

Yes that exactly what i think it would be too much work to do.

Since SH3 have already the campaign structure in place.

In a word too much work for little gain that might explain why no one want to get involved in it.

But like i say sometime it is good to see all the different approach we have to make the best out of it:up:

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Hey...someone edited my avatar in my profile:x

How can I modify i?

Hi Robin,

Avatar change as you post you got a sticky one if you made donation to subsim:up:

Best regards Hans

[Robin40]

Hi Robin,

Avatar change as you post you got a sticky one if you made donation to subsim:up:

Best regards Hans

thx buddy

but I was astonished when I saw under my avatar

wild nights in Bangkok:down:

[Hans Witteman]

thx buddy

but I was astonished when I saw under my avatar

wild nights in Bangkok:down:

:har:

[Sailor Steve]

thx buddy

but I was astonished when I saw under my avatar

wild nights in Bangkok:down:
That avatar comes with post #179 and goes away with #180. As Hans said, with a small donation you can choose your own avatar and it will never change.

[fitzcarraldo]

@Hans:

SH4 looks better than SH3 in all aspects, from interior of the subs, ships, exterior of subs, environment, weather, crew...Also it have automatic crew management, go-to-battle stations (and secure from batle stations), best stability, fast load, DDS graphics (no TGA)...

The actual mod for ATO in SH4 is Operation Monsun with the OMEGU GUI/environment. This mod was made by Lurker, author of the superlative Run Silen Run Deep Campaign for SH4 Pacific Theater. I tell superlative because the historically accurate of the campaign. The same Lurker made wit Operation Monsun: the best campaign for ATO (better than GWX).

OM/OMEGU lack of those funnies of SH3: detailed harbors, ports, cities...

For U-boat interiors in SH4, it´s worth to try "Nine Delta Two" mod by Ducimus (author of the excellent Trigger Maru Overhauled for SH4 PTO). This mod only works for the IXD2 type U-boat in the Indian Ocean/Pacific campaign, wit stock SH4 1.5 U-Boat Mission. The type IXD2 have a quasi-full interior (no engines rooms and torpedo rooms), but Ducimus works with Flak Monkey Interiors for SH3, and addapt it, with great results, in SH4, adding crew and animations.

If the OM/OMEGU is completed with better models and better land graphics, could be a serious contender to SH3 GWX.

The "immersion" of SH3 - I think - come from the submods (flags, sounds, harbor kits, ships), and - over all - the existence of a little program called "SH3 Commander" (God bless it)...I dream with a version of this prog for SH4: SH4 Commander. :wah:

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Ducimus]

Having worked with both games over the years (mostly with SH4, but i cut my teeth on SH3), I figure im qualified to answer this. :O:


Since i never try or play with SH4 i would love to ear your opinions on the pro and con of possibly porting my mod to Sh4.

What sort of mod?

what would be the greatest drawbacks and difficulty to do the campaign and adding all boat from the Atlantic theater?

Conversion of your campaign and data files. While most things in SH3 will run in SH4, the game still likes them a certain way. Campaign files would be the easiest. Data files like interior's or any object with lots of clickable objects the hardest.

Is there more limitations from the SH4 engine than SH3?
From a dat file perspective, there are a few controllers from SH3 that no longer work, and some that work differently then how they did in SH3.

From a campaign perspective, SH4 is leaps and bounds ahead of SH3. This is perhaps its greatest feature. Aside from different types of missions (lifeguard, photo recon, supply drop, etc), I very briefly explained how the campaign works in the thread here. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1588820)



Personally, I prefer the graphics of SH3. Something about SH4 turns me off, but can't exactly pinpoint what.

Amazingly i feel the same way about SH5. I think its a Post processing filter you can't turn off, i'm not sure.



after looking at some videos on youtube it look like there is a bloom effect that is overdone washing out the graphic

Graphical options you can turn off are Post processing filter, Glare, and environmental effects. Personally I always have them turned off.
Screenshots I took:
IXD2 conning tower deck (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_02.jpg)

Lorient Harbor here (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_29.jpg)and here (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_30.jpg).
( The harbor assets on the docks were just a straight drag and drop of files from SH3 to SH4. But don't let that fool you, its rarely that easy.)


But this could possibly be tweak on the SH4 engine and i know SH4 have a shader folder so we can possibly write our own just a tough:hmmm:

Shaders are wide open in SH4. If you know how to code them, sky's the limit.
Best i can do is some minor variable editing.

[Sailor Steve]

The harbor assets on the docks were just a straight drag and drop of files from SH3 to SH4.
Stupid Steve has to ask: From where to where?

[Ducimus]

I forget the file names exactly but I'm pretty sure their in the data/library directory. The band, the nurses, etc. I know the band is its own dat file. Nurses might be, i forget. The docked type 7 and other misc errata same thing. In SH4, The nodes in the harbor models still exist, and their calling on the same nodes that reside in certain dat files that exist in SH3. All Ubi did, was delete the dat files so they no longer appeared in SH4.

[Hans Witteman]

Having worked with both games over the years (mostly with SH4, but i cut my teeth on SH3), I figure im qualified to answer this. :O:



What sort of mod?



Conversion of your campaign and data files. While most things in SH3 will run in SH4, the game still likes them a certain way. Campaign files would be the easiest. Data files like interior's or any object with lots of clickable objects the hardest.


From a dat file perspective, there are a few controllers from SH3 that no longer work, and some that work differently then how they did in SH3.

From a campaign perspective, SH4 is leaps and bounds ahead of SH3. This is perhaps its greatest feature. Aside from different types of missions (lifeguard, photo recon, supply drop, etc), I very briefly explained how the campaign works in the thread here. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1588820)





Amazingly i feel the same way about SH5. I think its a Post processing filter you can't turn off, i'm not sure.




Graphical options you can turn off are Post processing filter, Glare, and environmental effects. Personally I always have them turned off.
Screenshots I took:
IXD2 conning tower deck (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_02.jpg)

Lorient Harbor here (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_29.jpg)and here (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ubm/preview_30.jpg).
( The harbor assets on the docks were just a straight drag and drop of files from SH3 to SH4. But don't let that fool you, its rarely that easy.)




Shaders are wide open in SH4. If you know how to code them, sky's the limit.
Best i can do is some minor variable editing.

Hi Ducimus,

Thank a lot for taking the time to clarify some aspect of SH4 i was not familiar with it is going to help me to analyze the amount of work required if i plan to port my mod over it:up:

I will post some others questions tomorrow because tonight i am not feeling to well:salute:

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

I forget the file names exactly but I'm pretty sure their in the data/library directory. The band, the nurses, etc. I know the band is its own dat file. Nurses might be, i forget. The docked type 7 and other misc errata same thing. In SH4, The nodes in the harbor models still exist, and their calling on the same nodes that reside in certain dat files that exist in SH3. All Ubi did, was delete the dat files so they no longer appeared in SH4.
Thanks for the reply. I think (hope) I can work it out from there. :sunny:

[Viktor_Prien]

From a dat file perspective, there are a few controllers from SH3 that no longer work, and some that work differently then how they did in SH3.


Maybe it's just a stupid thought but it's a curiosity that I have from a long time....
That's the main point:as you know in SH3 the amun_airtorpedo controller don't works at all.Another thing that I've noted reading different posts about the argument is that SH3 and SH4 are quite similar.Let's say that,very in general, SH4 it's an improvement of SH3(infact if I'm not wrong in SH4 the air-dropped torpedoes works)So my question is:what happens if you import from SH4 the controllers.ACT file and you place it into the SH3 main folder(deleting the stock SH3Controller.DAT and leaving only the one of SH4).Do you think that it could work?Maybe we could have also air-dropped torps in SH3?

[Hans Witteman]

Maybe it's just a stupid thought but it's a curiosity that I have from a long time....
That's the main point:as you know in SH3 the amun_airtorpedo controller don't works at all.Another thing that I've noted reading different posts about the argument is that SH3 and SH4 are quite similar.Let's say that,very in general, SH4 it's an improvement of SH3(infact if I'm not wrong in SH4 the air-dropped torpedoes works)So my question is:what happens if you import from SH4 the controllers.ACT file and you place it into the SH3 main folder(deleting the stock SH3Controller.DAT and leaving only the one of SH4).Do you think that it could work?Maybe we could have also air-dropped torps in SH3?

Hi Viktor,

I don't think it will work at all because dll would not recognized it at least this is my opinion but so far i haven't test anything in SH4 i don't even have a copy because for me the Pacific theater turn me off.

And yes you are right about saying both are very similar graphically and i have been looking at a lot of pic comparing them with screenshot in my mod and sh3 look better.

Best regards Hans

[TheDarkWraith]

So my question is:what happens if you import from SH4 the controllers.ACT file and you place it into the SH3 main folder(deleting the stock SH3Controller.DAT and leaving only the one of SH4).Do you think that it could work?Maybe we could have also air-dropped torps in SH3?

tried that long time ago when I was modding SH3. Doesn't work :down: DLL entry point is incorrect.

[Hans Witteman]

tried that long time ago when I was modding SH3. Doesn't work :down: DLL entry point is incorrect.

Hi mate,

That exactly what i was thinking thank for clarifying the matter:up:

Best regard Hans

[Viktor_Prien]

tried that long time ago when I was modding SH3. Doesn't work :down: DLL entry point is incorrect.


I had the feeling that it seemed too easy to be done!Now I have the confirmation of it!Thanks for your precise reply Dark!:salute: