Patio project

[GoldenRivet]

Tomorrow i am starting a massive project in my pitiful excuse for a back yard.

The entire yard is only about 20ft long by about 8ft wide, it serves as a good place to take the dog for his business in the wee hours of the morning, and the patio is but a 6x8 ft concrete speck.

I feel like by sprucing it up and making it a nice place, my wife and I might spend more time out there in the mornings for a cup of coffee and perhaps a bit of breakfast... and i would certainly have a more relaxing space to enjoy a drink or a cigar or maybe a nice steak dinner once in a while with company.

I will be taking down the entire fence, and rebuilding that. I have precisely laid out plans, and all the right equipment i will need. I plan to use Cedar, not only for its pleasant smell, but it is naturally resistant to bugs and rot, and -i am told - it will age to a nice silvery color.

but the bigger project at least in my opinion is the patio.

You see, currently the concrete pad that serves as our "patio" is nothing but a place to stand really, and as a result we spend no time out there.

the yard... grass has never flourished in the back yard, and seeing that it is so small, i had considered getting some flag stone, excavating about six inches down, laying a bed of gravel, topping off with crushed stone or sand and laying the flag stone on top of that then filling in the spaces with more crush stone/sand - thereby making the entire 20x8 area a big flag stone patio. The whole stone patio will be surrounded by metal or rubber garden edging

three problems with this patio scenario that i have considered:

1. it eliminates the convenient place for the dog to go do his business, so these 2am trips to the crapper will involve putting on some decent shorts and slippers, leashing the dog and taking him outside where numerous distractions will turn a 30 second trip into a 3 or 4 minute trip :shifty:

2. Though i have built my fair share of fence, I have never undertaken a stone laying project though it sounds straight forward based on my research, i cannot afford inexperience to screw the whole back yard up.

3. 160 square feet of flag stone wont be cheap... i think that stuff is currently priced about $4.35/sqft so i would be looking at dropping about $700 into the stone project alone and thats before i purchased any sand or gravel!

note: this will involve unscrewing and capping two or three sprinkler heads, also the ground is very firm lending itself to stone patio work.

the other option is to do about half of the yard in stone, and try to transplant grass into the rest of the yard. transplanting is all i havnt done yet. (i planted seed last spring and it did well but it just didnt last.)

Im leaning in this direction because the cons on stoning the whole yard are too great.

1. by doing half the yard, the dog still has a good 10+ by 8 ft area to do his business when we don't feel like leashing him.

2. doing half the yard is a much smaller project making it less expensive, more manageable and less time consuming.

i think the grass seed may have done better last year if i had excavated the top soil and replaced it. but re-seeding or transplanting the yard really seems like a job for the spring time.

so, the purpose of this post, is to throw this out there at the last minute and see if anyone has ideas i havn't come up with yet.:D

[longam]

I would consider keeping some lawn for your nightly trip, but it sounds like your soil is really compacted. A good rework or till with some compost should bring it back for grass.

The flag stone would look great if you had a point of attraction like pergola. This would give you a purpose to go out and sit under it. Maybe even plant some vine for shade. It should be cheap to build compared to a gazebo or deck.

So I'm picturing a half in half area. You could even get fancy and make the edge where they meet swoop around.

[Growler]

Aerate and turn over the soil in the grassy area you want to keep. Dog droppings should be removed, not left to rot - unless you want to turn them into the soil right away. Excavate the patio area to a depth of at least 8" and add a weed-barrier membrane to the very bottom of the patio pit - porous to water filling it up, but a barrier to weeds growing in the cracks from below. Level as best you can, with a minor grade away from the house - it won't do to have water from ice/snowmelt and/or rain pooling right against your home's foundation.

I'd leave some grass if you ever want an easy time selling the house someday.

[Jimbuna]

Keep a bit of grass for the pet to do his business but do what I did, train the wife to clean it up regularly :DL

I have timber decking on the other side of the rear garden and need to keep up with the creosote and regular washing because the dog often pees on it, turning it 'green' so the concrete option should be better.

[Tribesman]

As long as you don't have issues with water supply pave the whole area and include a gully leading to one of those buried tanks specially for dog waste.
Just hose the area down regularly and train your dog so his dirty area is next to the gully.

I have timber decking on the other side of the rear garden and need to keep up with the creosote
I hope you have reported your supply of creosote for disposal jim:03:
If you want better and longer lasting staining from your creosote mix it with used engine oil (which must of course be disposed of with the same people who must dispose of your creosote).

[GoldenRivet]

Well based on the research, measuring, pricing and reading comments here... i have decided that i will do half and half.

Tomorrow morning we will be pulling down the old fence, once it is down we will auger new post holes, anchor in the posts and level them allowing them to cure over night.

While those are curing, we will excavate 5 ft out from the existing "patio" 6 inches deep placing a weed barrier down.

after placement of the weed barrier, we will pour about a 2 inch layer of pea gravel. Atop the pea gravel we will pour about 2 inches of paver's sand then moisten and pack it.

Once that chore is done we will lay down paver's stones (http://www.bigskyhg.com/PigPit/Roof/7_beginning%20paver%20stones.jpg) in a decorative pattern as shown in the picture.

once the stones are set, we will pour down a layer of finely crushed stone, using a garage broom to fill in the spaces between the stone.

Miller time.

Friday, with the fence posts now anchored and the cement dry, we will construct the remainder of the fence.

Friday evening, the patio area will be cleaned up and new patio furnishings put in. I'm thinking 2 chairs, and one small table. I will also be moving my grill out from its corner of the garage.

it will be a busy couple of days.

The wife and i will have to decide what to do about the grass... but the soil does need to be addressed.

[TLAM Strike]

Now don't lie to us, we are your friends. We all know you are really digging up your back yard and installing this "patio" because you need a new place to hide the bodies... :yep::yep::yep:

[breadcatcher101]

You can't hide very many bodies in a yard that size unless of course you work at it part-time.

[GoldenRivet]

You can't hide very many bodies in a yard that size unless of course you work at it part-time.

or cut them up into small chunks and mulch them :up:

http://woodchippershredder.com/images/yard-machines-24a-a52g700-wood-chipper-shredder.jpg

[Jimbuna]

As long as you don't have issues with water supply pave the whole area and include a gully leading to one of those buried tanks specially for dog waste.
Just hose the area down regularly and train your dog so his dirty area is next to the gully.


I hope you have reported your supply of creosote for disposal jim:03:
If you want better and longer lasting staining from your creosote mix it with used engine oil (which must of course be disposed of with the same people who must dispose of your creosote).

Currently working out how to train the wife to apply it without causing an almighty row :DL

[Tribesman]

Currently working out how to train the wife to apply it without causing an almighty row
Thats a tough one, does she always start a fight with the neighbours when she works in the garden or is it only sometimes?:03:

[Armistead]

My company also doe's stamped concrete, flagstone look can easily be done, course you'd have to do the concrete work yourself for cost. I just did a bar inside doing the wood floor look. Everyone comments what beautiful wood floors, hard to convince them it's just stamped concrete finished correctly.

[Growler]

Damn, Armistead - feel like a trip up to MD? :DL I could use that kind of skill in my place.

[longam]

How to grow grass in Texas...

http://www.ehow.com/how_4523245_grow-grass-texas.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_4755369_grow-grass-texas.html

[GoldenRivet]

i'm going with stamped concrete. found some the wife really likes.

Got the hard stuff behind us today.

started about 9am.

tore out the old fence, loaded it up on the trailer, the old holes worked out for us so we didnt have to auger new holes.

took lunch at 11:30

at noon we drove the old wood to a friends burning pile and unloaded it.

went to lowes and picked up concrete mix, 4x4x8 lumber and other odds and ends (the person helping us had no idea what a "four by four" was.) :nope:

got all of the posts cemented into the ground and level

finished up by excavating the patio area, probably would have gotten further but we just ran out of daylight. it has really been an all day project.

tomorrow we will finish the 5 or 6 square feet of the excavating and get it leveled and put down the stone patio. then take lunch and head to town to get the remaining lumber. once we get it home we will measure, measure again and cut and install. we are thinking tomorrow should be a lot faster than today.

the really tough part is always tearing it down, hauling it off, and cementing new posts simply because there is so much heavy lifting. the easier part tends to be putting up the smaller bits of wood.

cant wait to be done.

time for a dozen half shell oysters, cold beer and dinner:up:

[Gerald]

GR! Patio project,when will it be completed :hmm2:

[nikimcbee]

So does this mean you're hosting the next subsim meet then?:hmmm:

[papa_smurf]

So does this mean you're hosting the next subsim meet then?:hmmm:

Think his garden will be big enough?:hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

Should wrap things up today.

Sure, I'd be glad to host the next meet, assuming of course it consists of 3 people. :haha:

[GoldenRivet]

Scrambled Eggs and a hot cup of coffee down.:yawn:

Going to twiddle my thumbs for another 30 minutes and then get to work:up:

[Gerald]

So it is with artisans, begins early and ends early :haha:

[Armistead]

If you get good at stamping, I've got several contacts near you that would gladly put you to work. You still going with flagstone. Sometimes you can rent stamps or buy them cheap on the net. I bought a Increte territory, expensive then, now I buy most of my stuff local.

You can also go over existing concrete slabs with a product called thincrete and stamp it, do a lot of bars, dealerships, ect. this way.

Cool stuff.

http://www.increte.com/

[GoldenRivet]

DONE!

though i severely underestimated the "easy" that today was supposedly going to be.

i would NOT call today the "easy day" in hind sight though i will say today was a LOT easier than yesterday.

Patio came together as I expected... it looks great - not professional - but great. and the fence came out better than i expected!

EDIT:

time to get drunk

[Gerald]

At last, congratulations :DL

[Growler]

DONE!

though i severely underestimated the "easy" that today was supposedly going to be.

i would NOT call today the "easy day" in hind sight though i will say today was a LOT easier than yesterday.

Patio came together as I expected... it looks great - not professional - but great. and the fence came out better than i expected!

EDIT:

time to get drunk

Let me be the first to say, "Pics, or it didn't happen." :O:

[Jimbuna]

Let me be the first to say, "Pics, or it didn't happen." :O:

He beat me to it John :DL

[GoldenRivet]

Let me be the first to say, "Pics, or it didn't happen." :O:

ill get pics.

the yard is a bit dug up still, and the patio needs to have its post job cleaning but thats all.

i'll go see what i can do

[GoldenRivet]

This is the stone tile patio.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JGyMlGQKTSM/TSjfOBKXKwI/AAAAAAAAAdw/xvP5GM5naLc/s320/photo%25282%2529.JPG

these were 16"x16"x2.5" and weigh 40 lbs each:doh:... this was a chore, and considering i have never done anything like that before i think it turned out ok, but i also bit off a little more than i could chew and should have tried laying a few of the extra stones in the area where we keep the garbage cans before attempting this project.

I learned from it, and i have a couple of things i would have done differently if i had to do it all over again.

notice the tiles on the left are a bit out of line and not exactly level ;)

the ground there was very very hard almost like bone dry West Texas soil... however, the soil to the right was very manageable and much softer and easier to work with.

the blocks are very sturdy though, and it meets its purpose :up:

upon digging up the yard in preparation for fresh gras we noticed that the remainder of the yard past the "patio" is extremely dark fertile soil.:D

Here is the fence.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JGyMlGQKTSM/TSjfUZkYBCI/AAAAAAAAAd4/uaSfL1n22rU/s1600/photo%25283%2529.JPG

Cedar planks, smell great and look great too. I especially like the contrast of the black hinges... a little bit pricy on the whole but worth it.

wouldnt change much about the fence other than using 6x6 posts instead of 4x4

we almost got it flush with the face of the house... and for this reason the planks on the end had to be cut due to the irregularities in the foundation.

I'm quite happy with it.

i dont have a before shot, but if i did it would be similar to this (http://www.photoshoptextures.com/wood-textures/old-wood-panel-texture.jpg)with a fair amount of water damage and rot.

[Growler]

Very nice, sir. Well done, VERY well done, esp. if this is your first time tackling a job like this.

Sit back and crack a few cold ones - well deserved cold ones!

[GoldenRivet]

Very nice, sir. Well done, VERY well done, esp. if this is your first time tackling a job like this.

Sit back and crack a few cold ones - well deserved cold ones!

thanks! will do.

looking at the picture you can really tell exactly where the ground became very hard to work with.

i think the bottom right 3 tiles by 4 tiles went in pretty well if i say so myself.

but still, beats the heck out of the dirt that was there :D