If Sonalysts made a new game... [Archive] - Page 2

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Takeda Shingen

01-26-11, 02:19 PM

Well still to receive simply exact mathematical modeling.

Now, the entering into a database of exact parameters of the weapon (weight, speed, etc...) - simply causes failure of this weapon. :doh:

It puts under doubt - that this game is named simulator.

Well, in fairness, we don't even know what it is or even if it exists, so we can't say how realistic or ficticious it will be.

Molon Labe

01-26-11, 02:57 PM

On the world map issue...

We don't know if the next sim will be tactical... it might be strategic. I wouldn't mind something the size of the whole pacific (or the whole world) being playable at once if that's the scope. Even in a tactical sim like DW the maps are too small to account for OTH radars and ASBMs.

oscar19681

01-26-11, 05:58 PM

Whatever they do , please give me a fully modeled 688 la class with dive planes on the sail. Forget the navy,s modern attack subs. Give me the old school USS Dallas from the hunt for the red october. I think it would give us some much more interesting scenarios as well. But i must admit some other platforms would be interesting if done well. Maybe the best things would be 1 sub and 1 controlable surface platform for blue and 1 sub and 1 controlable surface platform for red . This would also make online play interesting. But in DW i always got the idea that there was just to much development time spraid over all the playable platforms to really make it a award winning game. Also get rid of the 2-d panels ,there boring as hell. Let us walk around the platform in 3-d or at least give us a detailed control room in 3-d . I never got the feeling of being there with just the 2-d panels and whenever i wanted to ""stretch my legs" in the game i was always presented with a 2-d panel. Esspecially with sub or u-boat games which can take a long time to get to the action it really does help to have a fully modeled interieur like in sh-5 because it immerses you. I realize there proably wont be a fully modeled la-class for example . but at least give us a control room , captains courters and something else where we cam dwell.

what i would like to see is

* 688 la class with dive planes on sail (flight one or two)
* at least 3-d controll room and maybe a captains courters (for looking up crew files or something)and some third station in 3-d
* dynamic campain please
* maybe a couple of playable surface platforms as well
* give us some kind of reward for sinking enemy ships and sub insted of only a score or mission complete, let the game keep track of this.
* detailed realistic harbours
* detailed realistic oceans
* detailed grafics at leasts as advanced as sh-4
* mission start and end in port (no more mission complete mission over )
* 3-d crew , i mean comeon! even sega,s 688 attack sub had some 2-d crew. and sh-3 had 3-d crew a long time ago.

I think if it would be some kind of a modern submarine sh-4 or something it could sell pretty well! and even more so if it had a couple of more platforms were released as addon later. Just get it right this time. When i bought DW it was interessting but the learning curve was way to steep and unclear. lack of tutorials etc etc was very frustrating. when i did get everything to work in my faver i lost intest very very fast because hte lack of immersion , unrewarding linear campaign and the outdated grafics. Some mods revived it a couple of times and i wont deny that i might give a couple of go,s in the future. However for now its collecting dust for quite some time. So again please do it right this time.

oscar19681

01-27-11, 06:11 AM

A CV as a future paid DLC would be cool. Have any of you guys ever played Starshatter? Although sci-fi, the way they handled carriers in that game was good. You controlled the basic manoeuvring of the ship and its task group, and had a special screen for assigning aircraft to packages and sending them on a variety of missions like scouting, strike, escort, etc. etc.

I could see this translating very well into a DW-like interface. Like in Starshatter, you'd have basic control over where the task group goes, and could sortie your AI-controlled planes for whatever you wanted.

yeah there are a couple of sci-fi carrier sims out there. Just dont know why its always centered on space carriers insted of a good solid naval carrier sim.

Takeda Shingen

01-27-11, 11:53 AM

When i bought DW it was interessting but the learning curve was way to steep and unclear. lack of tutorials etc etc was very frustrating. when i did get everything to work in my faver i lost intest very very fast because hte lack of immersion , unrewarding linear campaign and the outdated grafics. Some mods revived it a couple of times and i wont deny that i might give a couple of go,s in the future. However for now its collecting dust for quite some time. So again please do it right this time.

My copy of DW came with a 300-page spiral bound manual, so I thought things were pretty clear. Later editions also came with a 300-page PDF manual. Also, I am fine with minimal graphics and a linear campaign so long as the mission editor is still there. I don't really miss the gamey elements of the SH series when playing SCS software.

Arclight

01-27-11, 12:03 PM

There were tutorial videos on the disk, you just had to play them back outside the game.

Bonus disc too, some nice historical footage. No "deluxe" version or anything like that, just because. Sonalysts rates pretty high in my book because of it. :up:

cristianfalchi

01-27-11, 02:43 PM

If Sonalysts made a new game...:

-Computing Bering Rate accurate. Real solution and not estimated!!!!.
-Range Rate Calculation.
-Chart SVP analyzed along its propagation.
-More chance of correspondence in the NAVMAP.
-NAVMAP in 3D.
-Azimuthal Display.
-Opportunity to display.
-Chat can only be activated at an altitude of radio. Train radio communication, with ability to chat and communicate vocally.
-..........
-.......
-.....

Takeda Shingen

01-27-11, 04:42 PM

Castout

01-27-11, 08:11 PM

Engine sound in map station :D

My mouth is foaming and no sound of new game?

tonibamestre

01-28-11, 06:04 PM

Replying some posts I will say that perhaps preparation of the ships at port,refueling and ammunition can be as important as the mission itself.Also capability to navigate till the scenario,reposition vessels etc,can be challenging,you never know what you can expect on the midway :03:.
Would be useful in that case a H24 server IVAO style,making every player/ship able to conect whenever.
Mid ports like Naples,Tarragona,Palma de Mallorca,La Valleta,etc could be implemented I think,if not in a first release later on.

Regards.

Castout

01-28-11, 10:00 PM

This:

How would depth in RL be included into consideration? There's rumors that the bow sonar is able to find direction thus depth estimation but I'd like to see this implemented in Sonalysts next game or DW successor. Thus the TMA may need additional functionality to take into consideration depth estimation from the bow sonar.

:yep: Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze

Another suggestion is to make the game mod friendly. ArmA 2 benefits much from ACE mod for example. Well maybe that's a wee bit of lying as it's me and the people like me who benefit much from ArmA 2 being mod friendly.

streakeagle

01-31-11, 10:36 PM

First: range is always an estimate unless you are using active sonar, have a visual/radar contact, or have collided.
2nd: while fire control computers automatically plot tracker bearings which are then fitted to curves to determine bearing rates, sonarmen and officer-of-the-decks use manual bearing marks (i.e. written in grease pencil or in your head) and stopwatches to get bearing rates and have simple slide-wheel computers calculate range. After nearly 7 years of sitting sonar, I could call out a range off of the visual bearing rate on passive broadband and be accurate to within 500 yards of what radar indicated at ranges over 10,000 yards. Since submarine contacts were usually only detected at such ranges and shorter, "mental gym" was more than adequate for getting into a firing position. I had one captain that would spend tons of time maneuvering at maximum detection range trying to get the perfect solution before firing, and we almost never won the training exercise. I had another captain that would do a beam/point maneuver, and use the estimated range to quickly get one or more shots off. We won even when outnumbered.
3rd: depression/elevation angles are almost never useful for determining target depth. Depths are usually assumed based on target type, environmental variables, and observed enemy tactics. Given an assumed depth and knowledge of the most probably sound path being used, you can use D/E angles to estimate range. Of course, the nature of sound in water is such that you may be receiving target sounds from multiple D/E angles. The game is not really in a position to cover this area, mostly because the type of information and the techniques used to get that information from D/E angles is classified. As a former BQQ-5 and BQR-21 sonar operator/technician, I can say that adding multiple D/E displays for broadband and D/E tracking to trackers would not add very much to the game. Most of the time that information is of limited value and largely ignored. I could adequately train basic operators. Anything of a higher level of realism would cross Navy security rules. The BQR-21 had a fixed D/E angle, and most of the time performed comparably to BQQ-5 passive broadband. The difference in detection range was usually the result of the BQQ-5 being optimized for a lower frequency, but that lower frequency would also frequently be degraded by additional noise.

If Sonalysts made a new game, I would simply want more platforms as I see no real need for any additional systems modeling/features for ASW combat, unless the Navy declassifies several things.

Castout

01-31-11, 10:52 PM

Thanks Streakeagle for that information.

cristianfalchi

02-01-11, 09:16 AM

After nearly 7 years of sitting sonar, I could call out a range off of the visual bearing rate on passive broadband and be accurate to within 500 yards of what radar indicated at ranges over 10,000 yards. Since submarine contacts were usually only detected at such ranges and shorter, "mental gym" was more than adequate for getting into a firing position.

A clear demonstration of the importance of the Bearing Rate.

Bearing Rate for fast and accurate fire solution is essential, in DW, unfortunately, is calculated with the estimated solution.:damn:

Dr.Sid

02-01-11, 09:40 AM

Nice reading .. but you can only estimate range from bearing rate if you estimate speed before it, right ?

cristianfalchi

02-01-11, 10:26 AM

Nice reading .. but you can only estimate range from bearing rate if you estimate speed before it, right ?

The range of Target is intuible by Bearing Rate without knowing the speed of the target. Why the change of the Bearing Rate is more influenced by the Range. Target speed is negligible compared the influence of the Range.
Bearing Rate, is also very useful to know whether the target is approaching or moving away.

streakeagle

02-01-11, 09:00 PM

The BQR-21 tracker displayed bearing rate, the BQQ-5 did not. The way real submarines get bearing rate (besides fitting curves on fire control displays) is plotting bearing versus time on paper charts and then doing mathematical analysis with slide rules. You have all the tools you need at home to do it the way real submarines at battle stations do it. Get out a note pad and every so many seconds plot a bearing on a time versus bearing graph. At battle stations, the fire control guys were busy doing two things: getting a solution and setting up torpedo shots. The sonar team simultaneously came up with their own solutions using either written tools or their own head. On my Q-5 boat, I used my HP calculator to do some math tricks, but USS Dolphin didn't even have a fire control system. The OOD and sonar supervisor generated solutions manually... and as I tried to point out above, experienced supervisors could just look at bearing versus time on broadband dsiplays and call out a good range instantly from EXPERIENCE... no math, no magical displayed bearing rate. The displays in the game already reflect the actual information you have available in the real world. Adding an automatic accurate displayed bearing rate would be as much a cheat as adding a 360 degree radar to fighter planes in WW2. If you want realism, the sim has had it since Jane's 688i, which was actually used as a supplementary trainer for real submarine crewmen do to the limited availability of the full scale trainers. Both officers and sonarmen are taught to do trigonometry in their head, including memorizing the sine and cosine tables. It seems like the reality of US Navy submarine tactics is surprising to some of you... computers gather the data, but it is people that process it. At battle stations sonar had 12 or more people on my Q-5 boat. Nukes manned the frequency and bearing versus time charts in control (even more crowded than sonar). The US Navy has always believed in solving problems with overwhelming manpower despite the availability of modern automation. The nuclear reactors were run the same way: people staring at gauges, flipping switches, and turning valves rather than using computers that would probably do a better job. Of course, most people don't "blue screen" while working :)

streakeagle

02-01-11, 09:24 PM

If you consider the fire control solution to be a system of linear algebra equations, you need as many equations as you have variables to eliminate all of the unknowns. Bearing rate is affected by both range and relative speed across the line of sight, so you need two different equations to solve the problem. You know your own speed across the line of sight and you know the bearing rate... so if you are missing his speed across the line of sight and range. This technique is called an Ekelund Range after its inventor and is apparently now available as an iPhone app :timeout:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ekelund-range/id305672427?mt=8

If you simply take bearing rate measurements the way real submariners do, you could use your iPhone in place of our bearing rate slide rules to get solutions. Hint: you have to do two legs (per the iPhone app) to get two radically different bearing rates to permit solving this basic two variable system of equations.

The problem isn't a lack of features in the game, it is a lack of understanding and training of the people trying to play it.

After years of doing this for a living, I don't want to do "mental gym" or fire control. Whenever I decide to play this sim, I swag the range the way I did on Dolphin. To paraphrase a US submariner saying : "close enough for a Mk 48". Submarine combat is not won by doing math to 10 decimal places on computers, it is won by rapidly assessing the available information and getting in the first shot. The first shot only has to be good enough to get the Mk 48 into acquisition range, then its Miller time.

Also, keep in mind that the bearing data being fed to fire control isn't precisely accurate. The bearing is the angle that the sound hits the sonar array. Guess what, sound bends in water AND it fluctuates. So the bearing rate is ESTIMATED by drawing a line through the wiggly dots. The fire control guys do this with the computer screen. The nukes do it on paper. The sonarmen and OOD do it in their heads. Guess whose solutions are usually both the quickest and the most accurate? In the end, the Captain usually takes into account all of the information, then goes with his own gut feeling... because he stares at the repeater screen and does it in his head too :rock:

streakeagle

02-01-11, 09:48 PM

One more thing. Imagine that you were tracking a frequency from a target and that the received frequency on your sonar display was Doppler shifted by relative motion in the line of sight. Imagine that while maneuvering to get an Ekelund range, you were able to identify the base frequency and thereby calculate the relative speed in the line of sight and subtract your own speed in the line of sight to get the target's speed in the line of sight. So, if your Ekelund range worked out (it is only reliable when the bearing rate difference between the two legs is large enough) you may now have the target's range, speed across the line of sight and speed in the line sight. The two speed vectors are then easily resolved into target's course in speed. If you master this math or program it into a good caclulator (I always used an HP48SX back in the day), you don't need fire control in reality. Of course the game dumbs down the narrowband component a tad to stay away from classified information and techniques, but in the game you can usually determine target speed from turns per knot (TPK) info and combine that with info you get from Ekelund ranging to resolve target course. Of course, in sonar, there is always more than one way to get the necessary information. Think towed array versus spherical array. Can you say triangulation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_location

Rip

02-01-11, 10:16 PM

Thanks for the refresher. I was an ET but stood sonar watch on occasion. I think I developed most of my TMA techniques from being a geo plot supervisor during tracking stations.

Now I actually wish I had an iPhone, never thought I would say that. :oops:

I wish the auto crew were as capable as my shipmates were. Sometimes I don't feel like doing all the work and just want to play captain.

BTW have you done PMS on the compensators this quarter?
:salute:

Rip

goldorak

02-02-11, 01:38 AM

cristianfalchi

02-02-11, 04:56 AM

Ekelund range in DW:damn: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not forget that in the DW Ekelund range is practically unusable. This is because in DW, the Bearing are given as natural numbers without decimal places.
Only with a proper correspondence in the NAVMAP we obtain an accurate Bearing Rate. Even a hundredth of a Deg.

ASWnut101

02-02-11, 10:52 AM

EDIT: Now for some reason I can't get it to work right. Dunno if it's just cause I'm half asleep and missing something or what. Thanks for jinxing me, man. :p

oscar19681

02-02-11, 05:22 PM

I wonder when we are gonna get some news on this.

streakeagle

02-02-11, 06:25 PM

You don't need an iphone... you can program a calculator or use an excel spreadsheet. I can help anyone interested.

Here is a thread all about the Ekelund range: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_2002/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=4518&forum=2&start=0

Kaye T. Bai

02-02-11, 07:10 PM

I wonder when we are gonna get some news on this.

Ten brownie points says that on the first day of April 2011, Neal will come out and shout "April Fools!" :O:

streakeagle

02-02-11, 09:30 PM

While systems displayed bearing to tenths or hundredths, the accuracy was very limited. We logged and plotted to tenths of a degree. For passive ranging equations to have any accuracy, the bearing rate needed to be higher than a few tenths... Especially the difference between the bearing rates when doing multiple legs. A tool we used on the passive broadband waterfall displays was a transparent plastic square with lines drawn at various angles and marked with the corresponding bearing rate.

A way to get a fair bearing rate in the game is to wait for the bearing to change, start a stop watch, then wait for the bearing to change again and stop the watch. 1 degree / measured time in seconds = deg / sec. divide by 60 to get the usual deg / min units used by the Navy. The longer your measurement (i.e. multiple degrees instead of just one) the more accurate the number.

The only problem I have with doing TMA in the game is that I am not getting paid to waste that much time staring at screens with a headset on my ears. I only play DW once in a while. Normally, I play combat flight sims.

TLAM Strike

02-02-11, 09:30 PM

Ten brownie points says that on the first day of April 2011, Neal will come out and shout "April Fools!" :O:

... and that will be the last anyone hears from Neal... :shifty:

cristianfalchi

02-03-11, 06:35 AM

As recommended by streakeagle, a tool used on the waterfall display passive broadband is a square of clear plastic with lines drawn at various angles and assigned the corresponding rate of bearing.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9156/immagineyb.jpg
You should print it on a transparency and resize to the size of your screen and then the waterfall display passive broadband.

My method:
The only way to calculate a DW Bearing Rate accurate to the nearest hundredth of a DEG is to perform measurements on NAVMap: for example using the function range circle you get a proxy measure to the tenth of DEG, by performing two Measurements for the calculation of the Bearing Rate gives an approximate value to the hundredth of a degree which is even more accurate than the BR that DW can calculate the estimated solution (approximate to a tenth of DEG). By convention, the bearing rate is measured in DEG / min.
To obtain accurate measurements need to make a drop of the contact to show the line of bearing on the nav map at time t1, t2, ... , tn and position of the mark on the end of obtaining so valuable reference for measurement.

Bearing Rate determined both accurate on two LEGS, just replace the values in the formula Ekulund Range Double Leg.

xDMHo1 xDMHo2
----- + / - ----- All That times K.
1DBY 2DBY

it is important that during this analysis, the Target course and speed remain constant in order to get a decent estimate on the Range.
If you use the Iphone, just insert the values of BRG1 & BRG2 obtained along with Bearing, ownship (O/S) course and speed.

http://a1.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/047/Purple/ac/d9/39/mzl.zwpxgyrb.320x480-75.jpg

Dr.Sid

02-03-11, 08:42 AM

Still in DW it always seemed much faster to just use TMA screen. No numbers needed. Sure you have to know how to do leg. But then it's just a few clicks of the mouse.

Btw. what about full auto ? I heard at least Brits use it. You simple assign tracker, do leg, and firing computer makes all the math .. that's actually what computers should do, right ?

streakeagle

02-03-11, 07:47 PM

Computers are not aware of all of the variables. The US Navy wants human intelligence to assess that data and correct for factors computers are not aware of. i.e. the computer may be blindly copying data from a tracker that has tracked off. An operator will simply move his cursor to a position and get the bearing he wants regardless of interference that can and does confuse trackers. I am sure sonar has improved in leaps in bounds since I last served, but a human operator on a BQQ-5 can do a better job of TMA than an automatic tracker feeding a manned fire control console under various circumstances. Of course, the operator is supposed to send manual bearing marks if he is able to get information that the tracker cannot. Then you have the best of both worlds, which is the way the Navy wants it: slow, careful, reasoned manual solutions to balance quick and dirty automated ones tempered by the judgement and intuition of the Captain. At least one scenario per visit to the trainers made a point of burning any crew that blindly followed doctrine and automatic systems. The combination of skilled sonar operators working with an equally skilled fire control party can overcome some tricky and difficult tactical/environmental situations. I had the privilege of serving with handpicked crews on SSN-687, some of the best in the entire Navy. As such, I got to see some exceptionally talented and experienced people in action. At the same time, I also saw some personality conflicts and egos cancel out talent and experience. Sonar, TMA, and ASW in general requires a lot of math, which computers excel at, but involves quite a bit of subjective interpretation, which is far beyond computers. Windows speech recognition is a good example. As advanced as it has become, it still makes a lot of mistakes. Add in some background noise, especially other people talking, and it is completely unusuable.

Dr.Sid

02-03-11, 08:12 PM

Bubblehead Nuke

02-03-11, 10:42 PM

Don't tell me about computers, I program them :arrgh!:
Anyway I don't understand the need for rulers and calculators. At least these days. All data are in the computers already right ? If I want to use these 5 bearings to compute range .. I should be able to just select them and click the button. Which will do all I would otherwise use that programmable calculator for. Those formulas are same since WW2, if not older.
Or slide on the screen ? In seventies, ok .. but today ? I hope not !

Computers are fine till they lock up or crash... then you had better have the old fashion mechanical backup on hand as well as the knowledge of how to use them properly.

That is why there is ALWAYS a manual plot (section tracking party) when you are trailing an object of interest. The computer can crunch the numbers, but it is a man you are fighting against. If you know how the computer works, you can outthink it. You can give it data that will result in the outcome YOU want.

Try doing that to someone who is being just as sneaky and calculating and out for YOUR butt. Then it is a whole new situation.

goldorak

02-04-11, 02:06 AM

For those wishing to implement Ekelund ranging on a scientific programmable calculator here is the formula :

The input fields are 8 (4 for the first leg and 4 for the second leg)

OwnSpeed_1
OwnCourse_1
TrgBearing_1
BearingRate_1
---
OwnSpeed_2
OwnCourse_2
TrgBearing_2
Bearing Rate_2

For leg 1 :

OOA_1 :

Calculate X = TrgBearing_1 - OwnCourse_1
If X > 180 then 360 - X
If X < 0 then X + 360
Else X

Once calculated OOA_1, calculate sin (OOA_1)*OwnSpeed_1

The calculation for OOA_2 is the same as OOA_1 mutatis mutandis.

Ekelund Range = 0.955 * [ |sin(OOA_1)*Ownspeed_1 - sin(OOA_2)*OwnSpeed_2| ] / [ |BearingRate_2 - BearingRate_1| ].

Speeds expressed in knots, bearing rate in degrees/min and distance is yards.
Numerator and denominator in the formula have to be positive so absolute values are used.

Rip

02-04-11, 07:57 AM

Computers are fine till they lock up or crash... then you had better have the old fashion mechanical backup on hand as well as the knowledge of how to use them properly.

That is why there is ALWAYS a manual plot (section tracking party) when you are trailing an object of interest. The computer can crunch the numbers, but it is a man you are fighting against. If you know how the computer works, you can outthink it. You can give it data that will result in the outcome YOU want.

Try doing that to someone who is being just as sneaky and calculating and out for YOUR butt. Then it is a whole new situation.

Second that. I coordinated the plot and we were well versed in the loss of just about anything. We could manually plot ownship if the "bug" died. Relay bearings directly from sonar if bearing transmitters and/or fire control failed. We ran drills for mind numbingly numerous casualties. They could manually enter setting into the weapons and launch them from the torpedo room with nothing other than sound powered phones for comms.

Dr.Sid

02-04-11, 08:34 AM

Thats nice and useful .. but sonar can die too, right ? And with electronic beam forging, it's basically nothing but computer.
So there is no automatic option at all ?

Rip

02-04-11, 12:10 PM

Thats nice and useful .. but sonar can die too, right ? And with electronic beam forging, it's basically nothing but computer.
So there is no automatic option at all ?

Kind of but their are redundant units and spares for all critical systems. If a casualty is so great as to take out redundant critical systems the priority has likely shifted to get up and get out.

TLAM Strike

02-04-11, 01:03 PM

Thats nice and useful .. but sonar can die too, right ? And with electronic beam forging, it's basically nothing but computer.
So there is no automatic option at all ?

Boats like the 877 class Kilo use an MGK-400 analog sonar. While the Victor III's MGK-500 SKAT system is a hybrid of both an analog and digital system (digital for LOFAR and BB and DEMON are analog IIRC).

The Russians with the Akulas and Kilo Improveds finally got the Digital Sonars on subs.

Molon Labe

02-04-11, 03:51 PM

How long is this placeholder business going to go on for? This has been going on for a month now!!!! :stare:

Takeda Shingen

02-04-11, 04:01 PM

How long is this placeholder business going to go on for? This has been going on for a month now!!!! :stare:

Neal will tell us when he can do so without being sued.

Bubblehead Nuke

02-04-11, 10:20 PM

Second that. I coordinated the plot and we were well versed in the loss of just about anything. We could manually plot ownship if the "bug" died. Relay bearings directly from sonar if bearing transmitters and/or fire control failed. We ran drills for mind numbingly numerous casualties. They could manually enter setting into the weapons and launch them from the torpedo room with nothing other than sound powered phones for comms.

I remember my first CO absolutely LOOSING it when they could not manually program a torp once. I was on the drill team and had to hold the placard in control that told them the computer interface crashed when they went to crossload the solution to the weapons. He just rolls off to manually set the weapon and prepare to fire.

The blank stare he got was priceless. 20 minutes LATER they were STILL fumbling. He secured the drill and had the watch relieved and ordered to the mess deck. We are talking the control room, FT's, torpedo room.. EVERYONE who should have been or COULD have been involved in fixing it.

He did not scream or stomp. He DID ask them if they wanted to die. He asked them if they wanted a carreer in the USN. He had a knack for making you feel like a fool without being patronizing. It was VERY effective.

Next time he tried it there were NO problems in doing it manually.

Kaye T. Bai

02-05-11, 01:04 AM

I remember my first CO absolutely LOOSING [sic] it when they could not manually program a torp once. I was on the drill team and had to hold the placard in control that told them the computer interface crashed when they went to crossload the solution to the weapons. He just rolls off to manually set the weapon and prepare to fire. The blank stare he got was priceless. 20 minutes LATER they were STILL fumbling. He secured the drill and had the watch relieved and ordered to the mess deck. We are talking the control room, FT's, torpedo room.. EVERYONE who should have been or COULD have been involved in fixing it. He did not scream or stomp. He DID ask them if they wanted to die. He asked them if they wanted a carreer in the USN. He had a knack for making you feel like a fool without being patronizing. It was VERY effective. Next time he tried it there were NO problems in doing it manually.

I'd like to meet that skipper. The USN needs more like him. :up:

Hawk66

02-05-11, 04:51 AM

to get a little back to the original topic:

I'd really like to see more crew interaction in a DW sequel. I think a lot of guys here wanna also (at least sometimes) play the sim from a captain's point of view (like in the old good times of the great Red Storm Rising subsim from Microprose).

I do not mean a 3D environment like Silent Hunter V. Just that you have more opportunites to give 'high level' orders to the crew to reduce 'micromanagement'
I think that's not very hard to implement.

Some examples:

prosecute that contact (and keep distance, use active/passive sonar)
feedback if the contact changes speed/alters course
if auto-sonar is on, do not just report a possible contact classification in the map but give feedback like 'has one screw'; probably it's class A, B or C
...

In the old Red Storm Rising game there was even a rudimentary tactical advisor. That could be implemented in a more sophisticated version like the First Officer gives you advises what you might do on request.

Again I do not mean a 3D crew environment. Just text-based(+perhaps with voice) and with crew pictures popping up like in the old EA 688 attack sub. I think such a crew interaction system can be implemented with reasonable effort and would help

newbies getting into the sim
allow players to play the sim from a captain points of view
the look and feel of the sim would not so be anymore of a instructional, tactical ASW simulator

Even better would be if this system would be accessible by the (hopefully) available scripting capabilities...that mean modders could provide more content.

I think one of the key aspects if a (possible) DW sequel is more successful in terms attracting more 'casual' users is if it is more accessible without reducing the complexity of the sim for the existing DW fanbase.

Feedback?

Kaye T. Bai

02-06-11, 02:36 AM

*snip*

I see. Kind of like that crew roster in SH4. Although, a 3D crew shouldn't be that hard to implement. But yeah, it gets lonely sometimes out there. I'd like to see the guys and gals under my command that crew the platform. :up:

keltos01

02-06-11, 12:52 PM

this, better 3d objects and explosions, missiles textures etc .. on top of a DW type game including a real dynamic campaign would be the one game I couldn't miss, hell no fan of subsims could !

keltos

zakarpatska

02-06-11, 02:54 PM

For what it is worth, interacting with a virtual crew does not appeal to me. If Sonalysts feels that they need to provide a virtual crew they should make sure that this can be turned off. I like figuring out what is out there and getting into a firing position. For me this is interesting. A virtual crew I need to manage sounds more like a chore. I really like the cold war subs that people have been modding for SH4. DW with SH4 graphics would make me happy and would, for me, be a must have. Also, I would prefer a cold war time frame. Chasing a Yankee in a Sturgeon, for example, sounds like a lot of fun to me.

timmyg00

02-06-11, 07:50 PM

tonibamestre

02-07-11, 04:50 AM

Its the right starting point I think,a well done base release with improved graphics,effects and capability(thus includes nuclear powerfire)+full global coverage,all these set into the Cold War.
Following,expansions adding new subs and surface vessels.By the way....some kind of SDK would be useful so skilled designers could build detailed 3D ports and sceneries using 3DMax or whatever.

keltos01

02-07-11, 02:37 PM

I really like the cold war subs that people have been modding for SH4. DW with SH4 graphics would make me happy and would, for me, be a must have. Also, I would prefer a cold war time frame. Chasing a Yankee in a Sturgeon, for example, sounds like a lot of fun to me.

me too !

Its the right starting point I think,a well done base release with improved graphics,effects and capability(thus includes nuclear powerfire)+full global coverage,all these set into the Cold War.
Following,expansions adding new subs and surface vessels.By the way....some kind of SDK would be useful so skilled designers could build detailed 3D ports and sceneries using 3DMax or whatever.

I concur !!

also the possibility to add submarines, including playable units

keltos

kage

02-08-11, 08:08 PM

You've opened a can of worms, haven't you? I'm wondering how it compares to your expectations, so far.

I've tried to make this wall-o-text as readable as I can, but it's still a lot. Mostly because I've been thinking it through for a few years.

----

Dump the "doctrine" language. All the places it is used in DW, use Lua. It is extremely well suited for this. Additionally, allow lua code to affect every aspect of the game. Creating "trigger zones". Creating new entities at arbitrary locations. Teleporting units or setting their course/speed/depth/alt/roll, or just giving movement orders.

It should be doable for a mission builder to add randomized civilian traffic, (perhaps even through prefabricated scripts) focused along shipping lanes through straits, and air corridors, but not entirely. Creating radio messages for the player on the fly, containing information not available during mission creation time.

Allow the "bundling" of scripts in just about anything that can change the game.
(Units/weapons/missions/interfaces/fill-in-here:............................................. .........)

If you make the lua api powerful enough, it can be used to rectify, or at least work around, bugs in the engine, instead of needing a patch from SCS. That need, combined with the extremely slow patch cycle, killed a good bit of interest in DW, and cost a good number of sales. Look at my suggestion as a way to not lose those sales without spending any (for sonalysts perhaps unreasonable) patching effort.

If you give us the means, this bunch is rabid enough to fix it for you. (Remember how lwami started out just fixing stuff? Our means were just terribly limited.)

One can also enable the user to provide his own lua code that does not have access to "privileged" stuff like spawning ships, weapons, getting "truth" data, etc. In essence enabling user-created autocrew. An automated ship's log will be quite useful for making AAR posts; and AAR means making people say "Oh, I want that game too!". And that's one person's imagination in 5 minutes, scrutinizing included. For that matter, your governmental customers might appreciate the added value it gives. Or if they hire you to do them, it may be far easier on you.

If you want, I can give you a good outline of how lua can be used for very good effect.

----

Don't plan/expect that you can do better than the modders. (History teaches us that you simply won't commit the resources needed to do so.) In particular, DON'T reserve the right to create new stuff further than you can actually commit to it.

Instead, give them all they ever need. They'll increase the value of the game a lot. For free. Consider putting some mods into the stock game as you patch it. (Most modders will welcome it even if the license isn't automatically giving you the right to do it.) Learn from them what needs to be fixed, and perhaps how it can be fixed. Copypasta into your code.

Let the game first look for files in a set of directories specified on the command line, and fall back on "official" files when they aren't found there.

Give out all the information needed to create new playables with proper interfaces. They'll surprise you by making the game capable of things you never even imagined. Like, someone can make a flight simulator for some fighter. (Multistation-able two-seater fighters - would be a first in civilian sims.) Complete with avionics and carrier landings. They'll make that carrier simulator people in this thread have been clamoring about. And they'll fix all the sloppy interface errors, like a "correct" solution in FFG TMA creating a contact far behind the real contact when you have the ruler in the correct position. (True story from DW. The contact on map is, AFAIR, 0.5nm behind the "truth" contact, speed/course/range all correct, bearing irrelevant.)

Use transparent archive formats, which users can manipulate with easily available software, like 7zip. (See also sword of the stars, where the data files were actually regular zip files.)

When it comes to the unit database, I suggest going the route Civ5 went. At least the sqlite database part of it, if you want to skip the xml part.

----

DW's sensor engine showed horrible shortcomings above the surface.
-Very simplistic radar detection model (The effects of radars of varying wavelengths, from various aspects, would be very good; even if the base data has to be provided by modders, the engine must be capable of it.)
-The downright horrible ESM model (In DW we saw a more range-based model, where you could be inside the radar range but outside the ESM range)

Oh and let me also bring up the memories of the invisible submarine masts. (The raising of masts was only visible on the computer that user ran on. AI have no concept of what a mast is, the cheaters.)

----

I think the addition of surface-and-above platforms was the greatest step up DW provided from SC. I would prefer not to see the next game focused on one sub, as some suggested. (Or at least, make the additional non-sub platforms addable by modders.)

I would like to see a variation on DW, but where the map/nav screen also allows you to give fleet command style commands to other ships - in particular, to ships the mission has flagged as commandable. This assumes, of course, radio contact. I am then hoping for more fine grained command ability than FC provided. Some of the competition probably has some nice ideas. In particular, there's no reason most platforms can't have a move order one place, and up to several attack orders, and up to several jam orders if so capable. Those are ANDs, not ORs like in FC.

On controlling other ships, let the mission restrict exactly what commands you can give. Say, you get to control civilians when you get close enough, but only to stop them. And not persistent, so they go on when you leave. Or a ship for which you can designate targets, but not change their course or speed.

Oh and, one could even use a "land object" as playable for the purposes of making a mission purely FC.

(Actually, given a proper lua api, the FC stuff can be implemented by modders.)

----

The "link" from DW was a step up from previous titles... err... yeah.

Distributed targeting. IADS. AEGIS. These are getting integral to naval and air defense.
Leaving them out, at least give us the ability to script it ourselves. (Again, see lua.)

Of course, the player should be able to join such a network, or even lead it, when his platform has the capability for it. (Including modder-added platforms...)

Consider also the russian missiles that coordinate among themselves.

Closely related is the sharing of "raw" sensor data. If two ships with a good lateral distance detects an enemy aircraft on ESM, they should be able to triangulate well. In DW, they don't even try. (But they'll still shoot.)

This as opposed to how DW FFG didn't even do this much for the FCR and the SM2.

(Oh and, a proper lua api will make this implementable by modders.)

----

Missile logic needs to be redone from the DW model, which was just sloppy.

Missiles need to LEAD their targets. Most missiles have very short burn times, after which they just glide along - and lose a lot of speed when climbing and turning. (In DW, all missiles were constant speed most of the time, even when turning.) And if they lose too much speed, they should drop, not hover.

(See also Lua - taking a hint yet?)

----

In DW, a lot of nice things were seen on the FFG/helo/p3 interfaces that I would like to see ported back to subs too. And improved. See noise on narrowband screens, the ESM only classifying radar, rather than ship class.

----

Individuality in ships

I've been told, and believe, that ships of the same class do not have identical sounds. As such you are able to identify the exact hull from the sonar signature. Some such variation should also be present on civilians. This feature could easily be seeded on the ship name the mission maker chooses. (For civilian ships, freely chosen text with some defaults.)

If you can look through a periscope and see the markings (flags,numbers,names) on a ship, that's even better.

----

For multiplayer, it's telling that a proper game did not take less than 5h. Any less, and the game was typically decided by the random starting positions rather than the players' decisions. Any more, and even the "hardcore" players would give up. As for how to "fix" that, this wall-o-text is long enough as is.

Others have already said plenty about what happens when DW crashes during MP. I won't repeat it.

----

Streaming game state changes to disk can allow restoration of a game up to split seconds before a crash. Or is that too revolutionary for you?

----

I can elaborate on these as needed. I would like feedback on this, particularly from SCS but others too.
And so, at 9kB, I think it's time to end this.

Overkill

02-08-11, 08:20 PM

I'm posting this way late in the game but...

I'd like to see another Fleet Command. Something that covers up to today's platforms but also some late 70's - early 90's "what if" Cold War/WWIII scenarios and campaigns.

tommo8993

02-09-11, 06:56 PM

Fleet command, with better graphics and a mod kit.

Kaye T. Bai

02-09-11, 11:10 PM

sonar732

02-12-11, 05:47 PM

This tells me that I need to visit the forum more often!

Hawk66

02-13-11, 03:47 AM

I think a Fleet Command 2 would not be so good IMO...'The Red Pill' sim seems to cover that (although with no 3D) in the future...

Sea Demon

02-15-11, 05:39 PM

The last time I saw this thread was 1 month ago. I thought for sure we'd have an answer to the placeholder by now. I'm too busy to log in and check everyday. Maybe in a couple of weeks. Otherwise I'm going to start believing the person who said this is a long drawn out April fools joke. :O:

Molon Labe

02-15-11, 06:34 PM

It is odd how long this has gone on. Any 'guerilla marketing' benefit they might have had by building up the buzz has already faded by now.

oscar19681

02-15-11, 06:50 PM

It just doesnt make any sense. Im starting to think this whole thing wont even see the light of day

Takeda Shingen

02-15-11, 07:05 PM

It is odd how long this has gone on. Any 'guerilla marketing' benefit they might have had by building up the buzz has already faded by now.

Yeah, but once it gets posted, we'll all be right back on the bandwagon. :D

Arclight

02-15-11, 11:18 PM

Afraid I won't have any hairs or nails left by then though. :shifty:

Get on with it! :O:

Kaye T. Bai

02-16-11, 05:57 PM

tommo8993

02-17-11, 08:31 AM

I think they will make an annoucement on April 1st...

Molon Labe

02-21-11, 01:41 PM

I'm starting to think that betweeen GCB, Red Pill, and especially now that NWAC is starting to look more like FC than an RTS, the Fleet Command II direction might involve more competition than SCS wants to deal with.

Although from the consumer's perspective, this is a good problem to have. :DL

Hawk66

02-21-11, 02:11 PM

I really hope, this cat&mouse game is over soon...pls Sonalysts do your fanbase a favor ;)

Molon Labe

02-21-11, 03:47 PM

Personally, I prefer to play "cat and also cat."

Guynumber7

02-21-11, 08:46 PM

Any of you guys played Act of War: High Treason? It's an RTS with naval elements, you get to command OHP FFGs, Arleigh Burke DDGs, Los Angeles SSNs, Seawolf SSNs, Tarawa LHAs and more. Although it is very simplified, it is pretty entertaining.

This was a load of fun and honestly i hope that some one makes another RTS that has modern naval elements because that game is the only game to do it well in recent times. Too bad no one bough that game.

tommo8993

02-22-11, 06:42 PM

This is actually taking the p**s now. Either tell us you are making a game or that you are not.

colonelCJ

02-23-11, 03:03 AM

This was a load of fun and honestly i hope that some one makes another RTS that has modern naval elements because that game is the only game to do it well in recent times. Too bad no one bough that game.

Dude the only decent one at the moment IMO is Dangerous waters, but that is getting a bit outdated (and SH4)

SH4 will be insane when the modern subs project is finished. :yeah:

Molon Labe

02-23-11, 03:54 AM

DW isn't an RTS.

oscar19681

02-25-11, 08:19 PM

Chirst. Still no heads up regarding of a potential DW/Fleet command sequel. I mean common guys, this is really starting to old . I,m not even gonna check here anymore because is really getting of . Seriously!!!

Takeda Shingen

02-26-11, 07:56 AM

thunderbird522

02-26-11, 08:09 AM

Virginia Class Boats

Kaye T. Bai

02-26-11, 03:34 PM

oscar19681

02-27-11, 03:54 PM

If this is gonna be an april fools joke then it will the the worst joke in the history of subsim i tell ya.

keltos01

03-01-11, 05:22 AM

any news yet ?

I know this must still be on the drawing boards, but since there aren't gonna be many sub sims in the near future I'm sure a new DW type game would be a hit !

keltos

goldorak

03-01-11, 06:07 AM

any news yet ?

I know this must still be on the drawing boards, but since there aren't gonna be many sub sims in the near future I'm sure a new DW type game would be a hit !

keltos

Don't put the cart before the horse. ;)
A new DW is going to have to have some serious polishing (something that DW never had) in terms of graphics and bug fixing. And of course it shouldn't in any way be less in terms of features than what DW had. So its going to be a pretty hard thing to achieve, at least for SCS standards seeing how they basically abandoned DW to its death.

keltos01

03-01-11, 06:40 AM

well, I just started playing DW with RA of late, and even thought the graphics are outdated the game is great.

but I still think that the Silent Hunter series would've been great with a really dynamic campaign.

I hope that SCS's new game will have such a campaign and if it can be better than DW was, it would be really something.

keltos

oscar19681

03-02-11, 09:23 PM

The way i see it we have 3 possibility,s.

1) Its an april fools joke gone bad.
2) the game was on the drawing board but it never made it past the board and got canned.
3) The game is surely gonna be released and is gonna be so far out that even the CIA , DOD , NSA , Mosad , doesnt know about it because they might use it to play the game insted of gathering intell to save the world.

ASWnut101

03-02-11, 10:45 PM

Patience is a virtue.

:03:

Castout

03-03-11, 03:02 AM

Patience is a virtue.

:03:

It's only a virtue when you know when to embrace it and when to stop :O:

Otherwise it becomes sheer stupidity :D

oscar19681

03-06-11, 05:22 PM

28 days lets untill it is revealed by unkle Neal that this is an april fools joke..

Takeda Shingen

03-06-11, 05:31 PM

28 days lets untill it is revealed by unkle Neal that this is an april fools joke..

Oscar, you do this every time a new game is to be released. Relax, man. What will come will come.

Castout

03-06-11, 05:34 PM

As long as what will come will not come by digital download only. I need disc :O:

Father Goose

03-06-11, 07:59 PM

As long as what will come will not come by digital download only. I need disc :O:

Disc is essential...please. :up:

Dr.Sid

03-07-11, 06:05 AM

Disc ? Who are you ? Dinosaurs ? :arrgh!:

Father Goose

03-07-11, 05:28 PM

Disc ? Who are you ? Dinosaurs ? :arrgh!:

I keep my discs right next to my phonograph and vinyl records. :|\\

Castout

03-07-11, 08:54 PM

Disc ? Who are you ? Dinosaurs ? :arrgh!:

I have no credit card and family members never shop online for fear of their credit card information from being stolen and used illegally.

I'm in no way able to convince them otherwise. I use wire transfer. So if digital download allows wire transfer then I'm in. But I still prefer disc that I can buy from retailer who accepts wire transfer even if I have to fork out more quite a little bit more in fact about 31 bucks more for bank fees and all.

Fleet Command CC

03-08-11, 12:24 AM

Ham I a bit late to add my opinion?

I would like to see SCS release, a game that is like FC and DW in one, i.e. you get a set number of ships\subs\aircrafts let say five of each with multiple stations. Then all the other units in the game can be given orders, like how it work in Fleet Command. :yeah:

I think this would make DW & FC fans very happy, to get the best of both worlds, if they had done this with Dangerous Waters it would have been super-cool. :rock::salute:

Fleet Command CC

03-08-11, 12:47 AM

I have no credit card and family members never shop online for fear of their credit card information from being stolen and used illegally.

I'm in no way able to convince them otherwise. I use wire transfer. So if digital download allows wire transfer then I'm in. But I still prefer disc that I can buy from retailer who accepts wire transfer even if I have to fork out more quite a little bit more in fact about 31 bucks more for bank fees and all.

Hey Castout.

I have had my credit card number hack about five times, so I can see why you & your don't shop online. I've found if your very careful where you use the CC you should be ok.

The main thing I changed after the fifth time my number was use by someone else was I build a computer specific for doing online ordering and banking. I don't download anything onto it other than Window updates and Internet Security Protection updates, and also the web pages I go on only the ones I've tried and test. The first thing I do before I order anything is I do an updates check and then I do a quick scan and lastly I type the http;\ into the Browser I don't go via Favorites links and I haven't had any problems with my CC been use illegally.

Just be careful where you use your credit card and that your on the right web site. :salute:

Castout

03-08-11, 01:18 AM

Hey Castout.

I have had my credit card number hack about five times, so I can see why you & your don't shop online. I've found if your very careful where you use the CC you should be ok.

The main thing I changed after the fifth time my number was use by someone else was I build a computer specific for doing online ordering and banking. I don't download anything onto it other than Window updates and Internet Security Protection updates, and also the web pages I go on only the ones I've tried and test. The first thing I do before I order anything is I do an updates check and then I do a quick scan and lastly I type the http;\ into the Browser I don't go via Favorites links and I haven't had any problems with my CC been use illegally.

Just be careful where you use your credit card and that your on the right web site. :salute:

Umm thanks FC. My mother had her CC information stolen and she had never bought anything online anywhere.

My guess is she had her CC information stolen when she used the card to pay in the real world. Perhaps when paying a meal in a cafe or eatery.

So even not buying anything online is no guarantee :DL

Dr.Sid

03-08-11, 09:19 AM

TLAM Strike

03-08-11, 10:09 AM

@Castout: You can sign up for a paypal account and put money on it by buying a gift card from a store and use that to shop online. You pay a service fee for the card put no one can steal it and ring up a bunch of charges.

Not sure where you would buy them in your country though.

Gerald

03-08-11, 10:21 AM

TLAM Strike

03-08-11, 01:42 PM

Well there is post in the new forum now; not that it tells us much...:hmmm:

razark

03-08-11, 02:04 PM

Well there is post in the new forum now; not that it tells us much...:hmmm:
I disagree. I'd say we now have 500% more information than before.

TLAM Strike

03-08-11, 02:31 PM

I disagree. I'd say we now have 500% more information than before.

To paraphrase the Hero of Canton 500% of nothing is still nothing... :D

Molon Labe

03-08-11, 03:09 PM

To paraphrase the Hero of Canton 500% of nothing is still nothing... :D

Why not the Tribble merchant?

sertore

03-08-11, 03:41 PM

Disc ? Who are you ? Dinosaurs ? :arrgh!:
Yeah, I like disk too but I am not a Dinosaurs... I am a veteran! :rotfl2:

razark

03-08-11, 04:34 PM

To paraphrase the Hero of Canton 500% of nothing is still nothing... :D
Well, in that case, I'm willing to go to 1000%.

Castout

03-08-11, 05:11 PM

Sure you must be careful. But I'm very happy Steam customer. One click, and next day the game is installed. No pesky copy protection, no problem with unreadable CDs (and I get them a lot with my laptop as CD drive has usually some dust in it). Automatic updates, one click to support forums, recommend (or warnings) to/from friends.
If I get a choice, I go for Steam .. no boxes, no discs for me please.
Paper manual for sim game would be nice, yeah .. but in age of iPads and similar devices I can live even without that.

Oh I enjoy steam too but I still have to have disc. Internet is not that fast plus I love to see what I buy you know the box, the thin manual and the fanciful cover.

@Castout: You can sign up for a paypal account and put money on it by buying a gift card from a store and use that to shop online. You pay a service fee for the card put no one can steal it and ring up a bunch of charges.

Not sure where you would buy them in your country though.

Thanks TLAM I'll check it out

TLAM Strike

03-08-11, 09:12 PM

I wonder if this is it... (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/03/boarding-a-pirate-ship-is-drudgery-in-nato-video-game/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WiredDangerRoom+%28Blog+-+Danger+Room%29)

Castout

03-09-11, 02:30 AM

Pisces

03-09-11, 06:54 AM

April Fools is still the most likely answer. I don't trust Neal one bit on this one. The 2 posts in there indicate it can be downloaded, will have a faq, and an introduction is to come. But they are nothing but placeholders. Why bother with that if there is nothing to say yet. Just teasing us, that's what it is.

zamfe

03-09-11, 10:36 AM

Maybe Sonalysts decided to release one of their games for free.
I hope it´s not it.

Takeda Shingen

03-09-11, 04:19 PM

Neal's getting us all excited again. :O:

SkyBaron

03-09-11, 11:51 PM

Sonalysts still doesn't have any new news to share, this question is purely for me: (but if I get the chance I will pass the knowledge along)

If Sonalysts was to make a new modern sim, what game should it be like:

1. Fleet Command (many vehicles no stations)
2. Dangerous Waters (one vehicle multiple stations)
3. Other (name a game it should be like)

Also please give 1 new feature that the game must have. Here is example:

The new game should be like DW, with the feature to be able to walk around the ship/sub and see/communicate with crew members.

If Sonalyst wants to compete in the commercial gaming market they need to update their graphics. I'm sure eye candy will drive sales for the non-casual players. Just don't screw it up like that SH5 train wreck - too much emphasis on GFX not much on the overall simulation. :DL Maybe even add the the ability to model 3D interiors for the subs(just the control room) and let the modders take care of it! :O: It'll add wonders to the immersion factor.

Like somebody said before, I'd also pay just for DW with updated graphics!:salute:

Dr.Sid

03-10-11, 09:21 AM

But wait .. Neal asked about new game from SCS .. and he create new section on the forum. But who said it's related in any way ?

Sea Demon

03-10-11, 11:12 AM

Great. Looks like an announcement is forthcoming soon. :up:

Kaye T. Bai

03-12-11, 04:02 AM

Great. Looks like an announcement is forthcoming soon.

On the first of next month, I presume. :O:

Fish

03-12-11, 01:57 PM

On the first of next month, I presume. :O:
Yeah, my idea too. :DL

OlegM

03-12-11, 05:04 PM

HARRRR!!! Finally something exciting in this part of the forum, that I used to visit a lot back in the old days... :arrgh!: Greetz to all the DW veterans...

But wait .. Neal asked about new game from SCS .. and he create new section on the forum. But who said it's related in any way ?

To answer the obvious, the new subforum is in Sonalysts Combat Sims section of the forum, so *obviously* it *is* a game by Sonalysts...

Now... the question is.... whether it is an entirely new game or something else? When DW was announced, it was long before the actual release of the game. There was substantial beta test phase with some guys from this forum participating in it (I was one of the betas too). There were screenshots, hype building and all that...

Here we have a very modest "tease", plus, what bothers me is that one of the placeholder posts is about "download and FAQ". You don't post about "download" if the game is many months from being finished. On the other hand, you don't finish a game like DW overnight, without posting announcements, screenshots etc months in advance.

Sadly, I think this is not a new game from Sonalysts :shifty:

What I think this is.... is that someone in Sonalysts took those opposing force mods or something like that, and made them official.

So, my bet is that in couple days/weeks we will see announcement about some sort of opfor DLC expansion pack, quite possibly being sold exclusively via Subsim.

That's my guess. And that makes me only moderately happy to be honest.

I still hope I am wrong and there is indeed a brand new game from SCS!!! (please god let it be a new game please....)

Molon Labe

03-12-11, 05:22 PM

That would actually be pretty awesome... an official opfor pack or something along those lines. Especially considering any new game will be riddled with bugs and might take years after release to be presentable.

Hawk66

03-13-11, 10:28 AM

To be honest...I do not really understand this cat&mouse game...it sounds similar like the announcement of new Apple products, which I do not like.

OlegM

03-13-11, 02:38 PM

Okay so who's gonna make subtitles for Hitler video where he demands a NEW game and clarification of all this mystery NOW? :har:

Sea Demon

03-14-11, 12:46 PM

Okay so who's gonna make subtitles for Hitler video where he demands a NEW game and clarification of all this mystery NOW? :har:

That would be funny. :)

I still hope I am wrong and there is indeed a brand new game from SCS!!!

A new game would be great. I also think a DW expansion would be nice. I just wish we could find out what is going to be in that placeholder.

Zander

03-14-11, 06:46 PM

HARRRR!!! Finally something exciting in this part of the forum, that I used to visit a lot back in the old days... :arrgh!: Greetz to all the DW veterans...

(please god let it be a new game please....)

I'm totally with you on this. It would be awesome.
Alex

Kaye T. Bai

03-14-11, 06:53 PM

What I think this is.... is that someone in Sonalysts took those opposing force mods or something like that, and made them official.

Like Counter-Strike and Half Life. :up:

zamfe

03-15-11, 02:21 PM

What I think this is.... is that someone in Sonalysts took those opposing force mods or something like that, and made them official.

What opposing force mods?

oscar19681

03-15-11, 07:57 PM

Well because of this hyping i have a feeling peoples expectations are blown out of proportion for some reason. Will see said the zen master.

Mr_Kaizer

03-16-11, 11:56 AM

We could at least get a date! It's the "Coming soon" that's getting to me.

OlegM

03-17-11, 02:06 PM

What opposing force mods?

I am not sure if we are allowed to dicsuss this here.... but there were at least two mods adding new playable platforms to DW, mostly "opposing force" ie Russian and Chinese subs and surface ships. Mods seemed fairly well done although I didn't try them because they were too poorly documented and confusing for my taste.

Now, there may be possibility Sonalysts is offering their own, official version of mod or expansion pack with some new playable platforms.

IMO that would be moderately nice but meh... what this community really needs is a brand new game, DW2! :rock:

zamfe

03-17-11, 04:18 PM

^^ Agree on the last part, thx for the info!

Marko

03-17-11, 11:22 PM

whatever it is, it is nice to know that something is there!

oscar19681

03-18-11, 05:18 AM

I am not sure if we are allowed to dicsuss this here.... but there were at least two mods adding new playable platforms to DW, mostly "opposing force" ie Russian and Chinese subs and surface ships. Mods seemed fairly well done although I didn't try them because they were too poorly documented and confusing for my taste.

Now, there may be possibility Sonalysts is offering their own, official version of mod or expansion pack with some new playable platforms.

IMO that would be moderately nice but meh... what this community really needs is a brand new game, DW2! :rock:

If its just an addon with more playable platform i would rather have the modders do it. I mean if they add more platform to DW it would be like releasing more playable platforms for 688i hunter/killer. I mean DW is nice but releasing an addon for an allready aged sim with aged grafics would be beyond my comprehension and i rather download them from some good modders then to pay for it. And lets face it there allready are more playable platforms for DW from the community! Would you pay for an addon for DW ? I sure wouldt.

TLAM Strike

03-18-11, 08:26 AM

If its just an addon with more playable platform i would rather have the modders do it. If they release an SDK to do that, I would hop on board. :up:

Cap'n Blake

03-19-11, 03:27 PM

Cold War, DW style.

'Nuff said.

tippership

03-20-11, 11:02 PM

Well, I am estastic about the possibility of this.

I feel we need a game that's some sort of evolution and modern equielant of 688I and Sub COMMAND

Now, I will say this- I do not own Dangerous Waters, and have only played F/A18 Hornet, Fleet Command, 688I, and Sub command.
Well, counting total stuff, i HAVE Played Silent Hunter 2. That's not important though...as while it was fun- I insist on Scenarios for today's world- Russians? I would like nothing less. Fighting the world's other main Naval Superpower NEVER GETS OLD.

Now, I put.....hundreds of hours into Sub Command. I'm probably aboutto install it right now on this new computer I have....

I didnt go after DW(I still might if i can be convinced), because to date, I was into Sub simulations so much that I felt the idea of additional platforms might detract from the Sub experience. (As I said it's probable I will still grab DW)

I would like a large multiplayer, largely because to date I still have not played multiplayer on Sub command, or any of the other games.
I did enjoy Fleet Command, but not as much as Sub Command.

Sub Command has me convinced that Sonalysts are in their ultimate element , quite frankly, when doing Sub Simulations.

Sure, I can nitpick- over the years, I've wondered things, such as "I'd love to show a Virginia Class Submarine why some Cold Warriors were the best with a Seawolf" , or even random stuff like "I wish these modern Subs had electronic suites to go with the modern times, such as thermal imagers on Periscopes, real modeling(I can go on lol)".

Making a Nuclear Sub sim including today's best technology (to the best they can without violating OPSEC of course :P) I feel would garner a large base, as something that is the 2011 onwards era of simulators..something that would run on modern systems.

Updated graphics? sure, but you know what? Of the hundreds of hours in Sub Command- never did I really care about the textures and graphics- tehey really had it close to perfect, and with today's tech, they'd be even closer.

Multiple Platforms? I am not so sure- but I will not mind if they include them I suppose. See, i've heard horror stories about Submarines getting the short end of the stick in DW, and I've seen a few examples that make modern combat seem really one sided for ASW ops...

Things I fell in love with in Sub Command?

making massive battle group battles- and then participating. I mean, sure Fleet Command was fun, but from the perspective of a Akula or Seawolf or 688I, going to Pdepth and extending my ESM mast and just picking up the tens of exocet missiles, harpoons, TASMs, shipwrecks, and so on-GOLD.

Watching tomahawk missile launches through my periscope was awesome...

Under ICE Battles- Oh yea, you all forget about this? YES

I loved under ice battles as well- and yes ,i would purposely put ships on the ice trying to sail- trust me, there were still some very interesting battles.

I admit the Ai was cheesy, but I'm confident they'd be really smart in a sim today. Plus they have experience with AI..

Now, the Auto Crew is fun- AI could be improved as always, but I'm fine with that XD.

Tutorials- I'll admit it took me a while to use SHKVAL's , and There might have been some buggy modeling- but I used everything at my disposal. And yes, the tutorals could have been more- it did not affect me because i understood a lot of it really quickly and knew the rest.....;) but for someone who missed the older sims and started out with this, a more expansive tutorial would solve that problem easily.

Regarding older stuff- eh, you know what? Throw in the F-14 tomcats and such anyway- it doesn't matter to me. i mean, I know they were phased out, and since 2001 a lot of stuff has slightly changed- but this is a modern naval simulator, so don't fret about including legacy planes from slightly back to the Cold War. Be Expansive- throw in those Seawolfs of the Air(F-22's) and maybe the virginia's of the air(F-35's).

Keep on adding more expansive weapons- since it's naval warfare sure focus on that- it's at Sonalysts's discretion to add things like MOABs, etc(it can all be tied in easily)

Have a very inclusive campaign. They've done it right with Sub Command, I feel.

The Mission Editor- I'd love to see what they could do with it now. Ports in water-eh....i heard there's a "repair" function in DW ...sounds like a keeper. However, to be able to "resupply" from supply ships or ports...it'd be nice, but if it isnt in there' I won;t fret.

Find a nice balance of realism where possible sensor wise- it's a modern simulator, NOT a arcade game. this means, realizing that real life active sonar's actually perform pretty good..... ;)
And not having DDG's and the like pick up submerged assets that are still and near the bottom on the other side of a nice sound gradient from 30 miles away. :haha: Oh, and having the planes that are in the game not fight unrealistically such as only releasing one Flare or chaff then trying to outlead every missile shot. :rotfl: Or having helicopter pilots who do some crazy stuff when performing ASW or ASUW. Or using the Akula (any of the types)active sonar and watching it wash out and not detect something at 10 or so nmi in very good conditions. While the same object would appear on the Sonars of the U.S. boats.

For the record I highly enjoy the sea-state options, the stormy weather we can add in game- I'm up for it. I wouldn't mind fighting in the middle of a hurricane- Modern navies and Airforces purposely have all-weather combat capabilities for a reason, just in case it happens. :DL

Now, I have thought of something- if I'm in a major battle, or such- It would be nice to be able to communicate to AI ships, or receive constant updates from aircraft or ships flying around- such as when they've engaged, etc. I dont know how they might implement this- maybe go to the map screen , THEN somehow pull from fleet Command a little maybe- Or course keep it realistic, such as how it'd be implemented. Also during the mission editor , it was hard setting stuff like that up- plus it's hard to do it continuously, such as have multiple alerts over a decent amount of time be needed if triggered.

Think I saw somewhere someone mention realism of physics. if they are adding "repair" capabilities- that helps, however the damage system I think was a bit funny done. Oh , you know , bumping a ship, then after colliding with it, your ship takes more and more "damage" 20% maybe, and suddenly sinks. :rotfl2: Even if it had been some random part of the ship like a control plane...trust me, I've seen some hilarious stuff. Just basic stuff. This also applies to boats, whenther moving forward or backwards or zigzagging, rudder deflection, etc,etc. Oh, and this applies to air assets as well.

Someone mentioned nuclear-assets.Perhaps Sonalysts could consider this sort of strategic asset as well. For one thing, while I highly enjoy conventional warfare , having nuclear cruise missiles used, or air-launched nuclear assets, would help the realistic capabilities of today's fleets. Maybe even having the Boomer's use their missiles...it depends .I could see how this would detract from the naval experience, but in a WW3 scenario(it's very still much a possibiility today), the could go either the conventional route(which is fine by me, more ships to sink!), or include ...weapons that are loaded with warheads that would do a lot....

Perhaps...a Ai that works with you? Hear me out- this is a bit important. In Sub command, I'd try to lock a measure or figure in the TMA, then continue working out a solution-it sometimes would NOT change unless I totally disabled the autocrew. For what it's worth the auto-crew could have perhaps been a bit more receptive to my calcs :damn: :haha:, because every one in a while- the little things turn out to cause big mistakes , such as shots being quite off..:rotfl2:, but I'd like the auto-crew to be more interactive in terms of what they assist.

Perhaps a active-sonar crewman as well? Having a Officer to do periscope duties and sweeps would be a bit realistic as well, perhaps? Maybe even one for the map tables- After all, I like being able to do every little thing, but I'd also like to have some backup in some places. Now, i don't know how far they would be willing to go with assistive Ai in stuff like this, but it's the meat of the work, and they're working with you. and NOT ignorign your inputs when setting up fire control solutions, plotting TMA lines, or better yet, messing with you in narrowband Contact because they think after about 2 seconds youre done comparing some signature frequency lines against a contact, no matter if you're still flipping thru ships- :haha: and then I yell at them for resetting the list.:haha: Fine by me, I turn them off and reprimand them , then set up the shot/classify the contact properly XD, then tell them that's how it's done. :up:
In addition to addressing funny logic and happenings like the above, perhaps making them a bit adaptive as well.

A second opinion on whether the ice above my ship is too thick to surface thru? Well, perhaps that's asking a bit much, ya know :hmmm:, :haha:- but realism trumps all, so I'll leave decisions like that to Sonalysts(though all captains should know better)

I am very anti-arcadish for something like this- but I think Sonalysts knows what they're doing in regards to producing a simulation/

Overall, I will probably continue to put hundreds of hours into Sub Command- and really hope Sonalysts reminds the world why they destroyed the competiton in 2001.

OlegM

03-21-11, 09:10 AM

Wall of text from a guy who didn't even buy the latest game from Sonalysts, yet he swears he loves their games! :down:

Dude, it's because of you that they have problems making business case for a new game....

Dowly

03-21-11, 10:08 AM

^ That wasn't needed. :-? He clearly states why he didn't buy DW.

OlegM

03-21-11, 10:17 AM

^ That wasn't needed. He clearly states why he didn't buy DW.

Yes, because he "felt the idea of additional platforms might detract from the Sub experience" :o:o:o

Is that the most ridicolous reason NOT to buy a game, or what?

BTW as we all know, DW brings not only additional non sub platforms, it also brings new subs into play. How can new subs detract from a "sub experience"?

Honestly I hate any comments from people who don't care as much as to actually buy a product from your company. I work in publishing industry (magazines). We take our readers opinion very seriously. However, every once in a while some :88) posts his "valued opinion" starting with "I don't even buy or read your magazines but I want you to do this or that...".... by this point his message is already in the Recycle bin or Deleted Items folder. Why bother, if he didn't bother as much as to actually buy the friggen magazine? How does he think we survive on the market? By reading empty opinions from people who don't even buy our products? Even if they claim they actually like them??? Makes no sense.

Dowly

03-21-11, 10:24 AM

Then we have to agree to disagree on this. I just don't think it's fair to dismiss his suggestions just because he didn't buy DW.

OlegM

03-21-11, 10:32 AM

Then we have to agree to disagree on this. I just don't think it's fair to dismiss his suggestions just because he didn't buy DW.

I think some people have pretty fairy tale-ish view on how things work. Things cost MONEY. Companies survive on the market IF people BUY their products, if they have a working BUSINESS PLAN.

Isn't it pretty clear that the main reason why we don't have new submarine game every year is the brutal fact people don't buy enough of them? For gods sake that why SCS went outta PC gaming business!!!

If the people who claim they LOVE the sub games don't buy them, how can we expect people who don't care about the genre will???

I am not saying this guy's suggestions don't make sense. (Maybe they do. I didn't even read them, on principle, because if you don't buy a product, your opinion on the product has value of zero. The exception to this rule may be professional reviewers who get the products for free by the very nature of their job.)

I am simply saying this guy is rude or clueless. I dismiss what he posts based on that. First show the support of the genre by buying the freaking game. THAT little fact is actually more important than any wall of text any of us could post here.

Arclight

03-21-11, 10:51 AM

By your reasoning, the fact you didn't read his suggestions and observations gives your opinion a value of zero. You're kinda undermining your own argument. :-?

OlegM

03-21-11, 10:54 AM

By your reasoning, the fact you didn't read his suggestions and observations gives your opinion a value of zero. You're kinda undermining your own argument.

If that's what you think I am OK with that....

Strange if you people think this genre - or any business really - can survive with the attitude "I like subsims but I don't buy them". And why? "Because new platforms might detract from the Sub experience"! :doh:

And to have this discussion in a thread where we collectively pray for a new game by Sonalysts!!! Some people don't deserve a new game, if they didn't even buy the previous one (game universally thought to be the the best modern subsim ever)

Arclight

03-21-11, 11:00 AM

Strange if you people think this genre - or any business really - can survive with the attitude "I like subsims but I don't buy them". And why? "Because new platforms might detract from the Sub experience"! :doh:
Where does anyone say that? I really don't understand what you're on about. And how does that apply to someone who spend 100s of hours on Sub Command and other naval titles, though he skipped Dangerous Waters?

You've alreay stated you didn't read his post. How can you level any argument if you don't know what you're arguing?

OlegM

03-21-11, 11:09 AM

Where does anyone say that?
You've alreay stated you didn't read his post. How can you level any argument if you don't know what you're arguing?

I quoted his reason for not buying DW, that's how far I got through his wall of text. The rest, for me, was pointless after that fact.

I am not arguing with the remaining wall of text. I am arguing with the fact he didn't buy the game. That I can do, as he admitted that much :woot:

God forbid we get a new game from SCS and it features some new platform. Can you imagine the fact that some people would not buy the game for that fact?

So Arclight, just tell me how do you expect any game developer to survive with an atitude like that? Because that's what's at stake here in this thread - not how sonar will be modelled or will the game feature 5 or 3 playable subs - we discuss the meagre possibility that SCS might or might not be back in sub sim business! THAT is the point of this thread, and it's hard for me to be optimistic about SCS's survival if people publicly claim they don't buy their games.

Arclight

03-21-11, 11:34 AM

So Arclight, just tell me how do you expect any game developer to survive with an atitude like that? Because that's what's at stake here in this thread - not how sonar will be modelled or will the game feature 5 or 3 playable subs - we discuss the meagre possibility that SCS might or might not be back in sub sim business! THAT is the point of this thread, and it's hard for me to be optimistic about SCS's survival if people publicly claim they don't buy their games.
Again, where does anybody say that that is the case? We're talking 1 player that preferred to stay with Sub Command, instead of getting DW over a credible concern. Silent Hunter 5 ditched multiple subs to really go into detail on one model, so yes, I believe it is a legitimate concern.

How does a single comment translate to the global bad attitude of players? You say "people publicly claim they don't buy their games": how is this relevant to Tipper, who owns just about every sub/naval game except DW?

I agree it would murder any chance of more games/sims, but I don't see any proof anywhere in this thread that this is the case. Much more likely, most people simply don't have an interest at all. And I'm 99% sure Tipper would jump on a new SCS game, giving his passion for sub games.

OlegM

03-21-11, 11:40 AM

How does a single comment translate to the global bad attitude of players?

I never said it does, I was commenting this one single guy and his IMO ridicolous attitude, hoping there aren't more people like that.

would jump on a new SCS game, giving his passion for sub games.

O yes, he's so passionate about sub sims he didn't buy DW, the best modern sub sim ever :rotfl2:

In publishing business (game publishing or magazine publishing, whatever) with "fans" like thse you don't need enemies, trust me.

Arclight

03-21-11, 11:52 AM

I never said it does, I was commenting this one single guy and his IMO ridicolous attitude, hoping there aren't more people like that.
Right, so we established it's personal then. Glad we could that cleared up.

O yes, he's so passionate about sub sims he didn't buy DW, the best modern sub sim ever :rotfl2:

In publishing business (game publishing or magazine publishing, whatever) with "fans" like thse you don't need enemies, trust me.
I'm passionate about games in general, but there's a lot of them I don't buy. Does that make me a problem, even though I bought like 200 games over the last 3 years?

Seriously, arguing DW is "teh best thing evah" is nonsense, it's all relative. The fact you feel justified in making fun of him on that basis just makes you come off as elitist.

Honoustly I don't have any interest in arguing against such a viewpoint, nothing good ever comes out of it. So I bid you a fair day and take my leave. :salute:

OlegM

03-21-11, 12:05 PM

I'm passionate about games in general, but there's a lot of them I don't buy. Does that make me a problem, even though I bought like 200 games over the last 3 years?

Seriously, arguing DW is "teh best thing evah" is nonsense, it's all relative.

DW is not "the best thing evah" but it's certainly a game anyone passionate about naval games should have bought long ago. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, what kind of "passion" we are talking about, and can any company survive in the REAL WORLD on that kind of "passion"?

This thread, as I see it, is about SURVIVAL of the genre. Or the survival of the SC/DW series, one of the most important series in this genre. Nothing less. It's not about sonar modelling or scenario design or the hull colors on 3D models - these things come later, if we're that lucky. This thread is about survival of the game.

To come to this thread, publicly claiming you didn't really buy SCS game for this reason or another, even if you do like them, must be very very disheartening for any company in the business.

Kaye T. Bai

03-21-11, 02:02 PM

Guys, don't get your panties up in a bunch with what could easily be a well-planned, strategic April Fool's prank. :O:

OlegM

03-21-11, 02:40 PM

Guys, don't get your panties up in a bunch with what could easily be a well-planned, strategic April Fool's prank. :O:

It would be the lamest April Fool's prank ever, and I am sure Neal is way better than that :ping: I bet this has nothing to do with April 1st.

goldorak

03-21-11, 02:41 PM

Guys, don't get your panties up in a bunch with what could easily be a well-planned, strategic April Fool's prank. :O:

Maybe its a social game for facebook, the ipads etc... :haha:
In other terms don't get your hopes up. Its going to be very hard to topple DWX.

tippership

03-21-11, 10:30 PM

I never said it does, I was commenting this one single guy and his IMO ridicolous attitude, hoping there aren't more people like that.

O yes, he's so passionate about sub sims he didn't buy DW, the best modern sub sim ever :rotfl2:

In publishing business (game publishing or magazine publishing, whatever) with "fans" like thse you don't need enemies, trust me.
I've seen people on here who have said Sub command is a better Sub experience, but this does not matter because I actually was unaware of DW for a while, just as I was of Sub Command in the begenning(took me a while to grab it)

Also, I did mention I will be grabbing DW. So how am I not a true fan?

I own many games, and I don't necessairly own every game in all the series that i own.I mean would you consider yourself a true fan of every Jane's game if you had all but one?(for the record I have a LOT of old PC games like F15, Flanker, etc,etc- a LOT, but I know there are a few from that era i missed) :smug:
:hmmm: Frankly, I don't think anyone who's not a fan would have put so many hours into Sub command.

"""""""""""""'''
I agree it would murder any chance of more games/sims, but I don't see any proof anywhere in this thread that this is the case. Much more likely, most people simply don't have an interest at all. And I'm 99% sure Tipper would jump on a new SCS game, giving his passion for sub games. """"""""""""""""

And you read me like a book, darn right I would. :D

Rip

03-22-11, 03:59 AM

Glad to hear you intend to buy it and I am sure you won't be disappointed. The other platforms don't detract at all and in fact give the game a much wider appeal. Just look at all the Silent Hunter people still clamoring for a return of playable destroyers.

I agree that to flame someone for not buying a game in a series particularly when they state they WILL likely buy it and stating logical reasons why they haven't at this point is important for a company that listens to their customers to hear.

I also applaud the way it was laid out as to not slam the game as much as point out what concerns had prevented them from picking it up at this point. If anything this is where we as VERY loyal supporters should be pointing out where the person may have made some incorrect assumptions and encourage them to make the purchase anyway. In such a limited community we can ill afford to alienate ANY potential customer.

In fact OlegM your post had me thinking that it could have been written by Derek Smart. :damn:

Sea Demon

03-25-11, 10:47 AM

OK. As we approach April fools, I'm getting the jitters. ;) Put me on record as saying that a prank like that would be in poor taste. :down:

Takeda Shingen

03-25-11, 03:06 PM

OK. As we approach April fools, I'm getting the jitters. ;) Put me on record as saying that a prank like that would be in poor taste. :down:

Neal wouldn't do that to us.

mikka

03-25-11, 04:25 PM

This here is what I hope: Sonalysts releases the engine, sans database, and maybe a platform DK. We do the rest!

Why would they do this? I have no idea. But hey, one can dream right?

Sea Demon

03-25-11, 04:26 PM

Neal wouldn't do that to us.

Nah. Not Neal. But how about that Frying Tiger Dude over at Sonalysts? He seems to have a robust sense of humor on him. :03::)

E.Luden

03-26-11, 06:37 AM

I like DW and Sub command, but what I've missed over the years is a grander strategy game based on the Western naval war over ww2. Yes I know the Germans navy was vastly outnumbered and the war at sea, is considered to be pretty much "winnable" but it would be good to have a more top down simulation of the war with more of a strategic focus as opposed to a pure simulation. But I'l admit I'm a strategy nerd and I've like the idea of a game like that for a long time.

manomano

03-26-11, 04:47 PM

We are the " producers" of AlfaTau 3.01, the first true real mod for DW.
www.maricosom.net (http://www.maricosom.net)
I am partially responsable of the introduction of new playable units.
If Sonalyst create a new naval game please follow these entries:
-moddable game with wisdom
-woldwide map
-new engine without the bugs we all know
-data base more friendly
- a comprensive ecm suite (at present DW have nothing)
-real 2d interefaces for all units:
Es Nansen with different displayes then Udaloy
-3d is not very important for this type of game but we like vegatebles also.
-xp compatible
Just a couple of week before DVX mod exit ,
we have make somethings in DW.
Naturally the Sonalyst know well as we made it,
We have take the decision do not reveal the trick:
there are too many idiots on the earth,
we have not intention to give them a nuclear bomb.
Today Dw is the only aereonaval simulation playable on the net.
So,In the our next mod for DW ,all units will have the correct number of weapons.
http://im2.freeforumzone.it/up/24/98/1333984332.jpg
All missiles are perfectly operative.

manomano

E.Luden

03-27-11, 08:59 AM

Or something like Fleet command but with more options, E.g. I actually quite fancied playing as the Indian or Chinese navies and having a crack at the US fleet, or perhaps playing as the RN or ARN but the campaign was limited to the US navy and apparently the engine could only support one campaign at a time, and call me lazy but after a day at work I really could not be bother to move files around in order to play one campaign or another. So perhaps if you built upon fleet command, but based upon a hypothetical future e.g when China has all its new carriers, or with the addition of a resurgent and revitalised Russian Navy... vs the severely cut and watered down navies of the western powers, I didn't mind the graphics in fleet command but obviously a little more eye candy would give the game a little more up to date look and perhaps increase the appeal to a wider audience, though I liked the shear playability of these games, and the requirement to have to use my brain (even if there was a slight learning curve involved.

Kaye T. Bai

03-30-11, 05:48 PM

Fleet Command 2 with these graphics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7z6Qm2uk_I) would be the bomb.

OptimusX

03-30-11, 05:50 PM

The game should have some kind of social component (like multiplayer). That way the game will infinitley advertise and sell itself. A game like League of Legends, for example, thrives on people sharing it with their friends. It kinda sells itslef virally.

Takeda Shingen

03-30-11, 06:02 PM

An online component really doesn't interest me. I've always thought that submarine simulators translate very poorly to multiplay.

scorpiondown

03-31-11, 12:19 PM

sorry if repeated as i didn,t read all replies.....I would like a modern nuke-sub sim that was along SH4/5 lines..

Dr.Sid

03-31-11, 05:25 PM

Mystery resolved ! It's DW3. Check the new section ! :arrgh!:
If it does not work for you, maybe it's because you are in different time zone.

Kaye T. Bai

03-31-11, 05:41 PM

Is it 1 April in the Czech Republic already? :O:

Dr.Sid

03-31-11, 06:15 PM

Is it 1 April in the Czech Republic already? :O:

Oh come on .. you work the joke, not spoil it.

Molon Labe

03-31-11, 07:30 PM

YGTBFKM

Might have been funny with no leadup. With 2 months of leadup, this is just cruel and dumb.

TLAM Strike

03-31-11, 08:56 PM

YGTBFKM

Might have been funny with no leadup. With 2 months of leadup, this is just cruel and dumb.

Huh? Is the DARPA sim a joke?

I'm confused...

Frying Tiger

03-31-11, 09:22 PM

No joke. You guys/gals get to play with a "non-commercial" DW variant for once!

OlegM

03-31-11, 09:55 PM

DARPA toy mini sim => huge disappointment TBH :down: I was intimately hoping for a new game, and expected at least an expansion pack for DW. In the end, it's neither, just some toy sim based on same old DW engine.

Dr. Sid, I agree with Molon Labe, your attempt at joke wasn't funny at all and with the actual news about DARPA thing it was also confusing :down:

All in all, not a good day on Subsim...

Now with this storm in a teapot (kinda) over can we get at least a semiofficial opinion from SCS guys about feasibility of ever doing DW2? I already accepted there will never be another DW, only for fake alarms like this thread to raise my hopes again (and then to crush them even more cruelly :x)

Sea Demon

03-31-11, 11:28 PM

I have to be honest, I'm a bit underwhelmed here. I was hoping for other possibilities. I'll reserve total judgement until I actually play this new DARPA game. But I do have a hard time seeing the enjoyment of simulating the "brains" of an unmanned naval platform.

Molon Labe

03-31-11, 11:53 PM

I wasn't criticizing Dr. Sid, I thought it was an April Fool's joke considering the timing of the announcement.

Frying Tiger

04-01-11, 12:03 AM

Hottentot

04-01-11, 12:57 AM

I have been following this thread since the beginning, but kept my mouth shut because I'm still pretty happy with DW and its mods. But now I have to point something out. In the introduction thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181124) this quote caught my eye.

This freely downloadable PC simulation from DARPA will allow players to operate the ACTUV (Antisubmarine Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel) as it attempts to track an unknown submarine threatening the coast of the United States. By analyzing how the best players use ACTUV to complete their missions, DARPA hopes to gain insight into optimal tactics and capabilities to be implemented in the prototype system. I'm just saying it would sound a little fishy to use an international community of subsim enthusiasts in a research that directly benefits the defense program of a foreign country. I'm not judging anyone who likes the idea, but personally I'm not fond of it. I play sims for fun and experience, not for this. And I would say the same if my own little piece of land decided to try something similar.

So, if it's real, I'll pass. But I specifically used the words "would sound", because so far I'm leaning towards the joke theory.

Molon Labe

04-01-11, 02:25 AM

Well, remember this particular thread has nothing to do with the DARPA game... it actually predates that contract.

We weren't at liberty to mangage expectations, so I'm sorry if you're feeling let down. The Subsim community is an obvious spot to find people with a bit of a clue on submarine-related tactics, so it makes sense to announce it here and see what you can come up with for DARPA.

We are still paying attention to the comments in this thread.

When Neal put the "Placeholder" subforum up two months ago, this was where it was discussed since the Placeholder was locked. Another thread popped up somewhere else too, but this one took over. The Placeholder was still over two months old, and that was the issue for me... not FuSoYa's question to us.

Dr.Sid

04-01-11, 04:32 AM

That my friends is how you work a joke. So I'm happy it's not a joke !

OlegM

04-01-11, 05:46 AM

I wasn't criticizing Dr. Sid, I thought it was an April Fool's joke considering the timing of the announcement.

Dr Sid's post was an attempt at April's Fool joke (and a super lame one at that). The ACTUV minigame announcement came sometime later, after Sid's post. So it was not only disappointing and not funny, it was also confusing.

Dr.Sid

04-01-11, 06:16 AM

Now that's not fair .. why would I want to confuse anyone with April joke ? :arrgh!:

Hawk66

04-01-11, 06:54 AM

at least now it's resolved and the hype is over...but to be fair the sonalysts guys have not created it...anyways then their statements some months ago would not make any sense, so it was pretty clear that no new sim is on the horizon...
...back to good old 'Red Storm Rising'

@Sonalysts: If you want to get inspiration for a DW-sucessor: Play 'Red Storm Rising' and pay especially attention to the simple, yet fascinating dynamic campaign engine and also of the 'captains' point of view in that game.

Also a tablet PC version should be considered seriously in my opinion.

Dr.Sid

04-01-11, 07:11 AM

Actually nothing is resolved till tomorrow :arrgh!:

Kaye T. Bai

04-01-11, 07:51 AM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pX5sV70JHjw/TDmab1H_WpI/AAAAAAAAAik/CXMwYNKF-pU/s400/son_i_am_disappoint.gif

oscar19681

04-01-11, 09:19 AM

Well because of this hyping i have a feeling peoples expectations are blown out of proportion for some reason. Will see said the zen master.

The fact that this might be an april fools joke is a good possibilaty. But even if its not its still an joke of epic proportion . An unmanned sub game based on DW . This is even a step backwords from DW. They might have well named this thread , What if sonalists made a step backwards from DW? :har:

I rest my case.

Rip

04-01-11, 09:42 AM

OK guys give yourselves some time to process and look at the full picture before you start having spastic fits. There is a lot this opens up and my guess this is just a first step.

One thing that popped into my mind was now we see the non-commercial engine, so can we reconcile the engine with the regular game? I for one would love to get DW working using the proper engine and realistic tonal and propagation data.

I am also wondering if this project is intended to be something to help justify work on a new engine. Once this project is finished the follow on would likely require a new engine to take the research any farther. There is a lot of money out there for DARPA projects and if some of it happens to help fund a new toy for us over brainy cyber geeks who are we to bitch.

I really think too many of us fail to appreciate the desire of SCS to maintain a close relationship with this community. Given the security level of their work any that have served on a boat or in a high security position should know releasing ANY of their work is always an uphill battle.
:sunny:

TLAM Strike

04-01-11, 11:17 AM

The fact that this might be an april fools joke is a good possibilaty.

I checked DARPA's site and this is not a joke peoples...

from pdf (http://www.darpa.mil/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1823)

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has initiated the Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel (ACTUV) program to address this deficiency.

...

...for development and at-sea demonstration of unmanned surface vessel autonomous algorithms for submarine tracking and Rules of the Road compliance; and Sonalysts, based in Waterbury, Conn., for development of an exploratory crowd-sourced tactics simulator.Oh and for those who think that this is a joke of a game. Remember how you this may influence the policy and tactics of the US Navy for years to come!

Dr.Sid

04-01-11, 12:01 PM

It's a bad joke if it's not a joke. Come on .. why would you announce some product on April 1st ?

TLAM Strike

04-01-11, 12:04 PM

It's a bad joke if it's not a joke. Come on .. why would you announce some product on April 1st ?
Check the document I linked to, its mentioned just this program in all but name and its dated Dec 2010. ;)

FERdeBOER

04-01-11, 12:21 PM

Well, remember this particular thread has nothing to do with the DARPA game... it actually predates that contract.

We are still paying attention to the comments in this thread.:hmmm:

SkyBaron

04-01-11, 01:07 PM

We are still paying attention to the comments in this thread.

:hmmm: that explains these pics I found online:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5934/17821902.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4676/63867511.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9305/28833693.jpg

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/2083/81797375.jpg

Dr.Sid

04-01-11, 01:47 PM

Underwater view should not be wavy .. I wonder who came with this cliche :rotfl2:

-GrayOwl-

04-01-11, 01:47 PM

To: NewCapitan.

All these models not from original game.

The guys from SCS were unable to draw even such models. :rotfl2:

Especially - default model a Typhoon.

Molon Labe

04-01-11, 02:32 PM

So are those pics the April Fools joke? Transparent water from above? Wake-generating masts? Looks too good to be true.

Kaye T. Bai

04-01-11, 02:52 PM

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9305/28833693.jpg

Same ol' wake texture.

Molon Labe

04-01-11, 02:58 PM

Same ol' wake texture.

Good call. I think that's a picture of a null model in DW producing a regular bow and stern wake photoshopped onto an image from another program.

Frying Tiger

04-01-11, 06:56 PM

Fake screenshots, using the SCS logo. Naughty, naughty. Don't make me have to have a conversation with Uncle Neal.

SkyBaron

04-01-11, 07:25 PM

Fake screenshots, using the SCS logo. Naughty, naughty. Don't make me have to have a conversation with Uncle Neal.

Just a little April's 1st joke in the spirit of the site! :woot: I wish it was true. Maybe you guys could use the screenshots as inspiration for DW2. :D

TLAM Strike

04-01-11, 09:30 PM

:hmmm: that explains these pics I found online:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5934/17821902.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4676/63867511.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9305/28833693.jpg

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/2083/81797375.jpg

Those are from a sim called 'Virtual Sailor'. I know; I made ship models for it at one point so I know the wake textures and stuff...

Where did you find those images? :-?

Dr.Sid

04-03-11, 08:02 AM

Are they all yours TLAM Strike ? That 688 looks totally like the one I have from SpookyMuFu.

TLAM Strike

04-03-11, 09:40 AM

Are they all yours TLAM Strike ? That 688 looks totally like the one I have from SpookyMuFu.

None of them are mine, I just recognize the environment and effects from the sim. :yep:

Dr.Sid

04-03-11, 11:44 AM

None of them are mine, I just recognize the environment and effects from the sim. :yep:

OIC .. which means the other two are from XabbaRus. :salute:

fusoya77

04-06-11, 10:16 PM

Gereke

04-06-11, 11:08 PM

I grunched the thread a bit (didn't read every single reply).

One thing I'd like to see is a much improved Quick/Random mission generator. Give the player more input on the variables that are involved in the mission.

Things like:

Number of Opponents
Platform Types
Distance from other platforms (Starting so close to OPFOR in DW Quick Missions drives me nuts)
Wider variety of mission objectives.

I'm glad to see that DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN has been brought up repeatedly. Dynamic campaigns make the game have so much more longevity/re-playability. I enjoy DW, but there is a lot of immersion lost simply because of being trapped in a specific region. It would be simply awesome to play in a Silent Hunter 3/4 style campaign/world while commanding Cold War/Modern platforms.

Again, sorry for any repeats... Just wanted to put my .02 coppers in to reenforce some concepts :salute:

makman94

04-08-11, 01:50 AM

To follow up everything thats been said in this thread,

As been said before no promises, and there is still none, but I have been reading every suggestion about what a new game would need.

One of the biggest ones that I have seen mentioned is a dynamic campaign.

Dynamic campaign, some form of moddability, better physics, and graphics are major players.

Thanks for posting your ideas and please if you think of anything else post it.

when i saw your post mr Fusoya...i felt very very nice ! even as a little possibility ...still it is very nice to think that maybe you will give us a new simulator !
and it is nice becuase you (your team and Jane's ) are the best at it ...developing sub simulators.

to answer to your post....without wanting to start a flame here(anybody can disagree with me ...giving the fact that you are developing somehow more modern simulators) or to discuss it further ....just my opinion-suggestion-request is to give us a ww2 u-boat simulator .

there is something very atmospheric at this specific period (ww2) and especially at atlantic theater....u-boats are something like a ...legend at the whole sub's history. the proof for this 'magical' atmosphere is exactly the ubi ....for years are giving us crappy games which you must be a very good lier to even named them as 'simulators' and still had a very big success (especially the sh3 for the 'new' graphics that 'brought' back then).
it is in front of your eyes what the people like ...u-boats in atlantic ...the only thing that is missing is....a real simulator for these ''iron coffins'' ! and you guys...are the best for making that 'simulator' part ...

a player that growed up with 688i (and still-always have it in my hd and library....if only i knew to mod it a little bit)

thank you Fusoya ,after so many years....maybe we will 'meet' again (and i trully wish to)! :up:

keltos01

04-08-11, 02:32 PM

Gereke

04-08-11, 04:40 PM

Makman,

The problem with ANOTHER U-boat "sim" is that it would be ANOTHER U-boat sim. As much as I love 'em, U-boats have been run into the bloody ground. I would love to see a well done, comprehensive, Cold War sim. Something that would really make me feel like I was in command of a SSN.

I'd be far more willing to spend money to support something like that. My willingness to spend money so I can attack yet another convoy (but with modern graphics! yay?) has pretty much gone out of the window.

I would most certainly be on board with a "Dangerous Waters" style program that had a wide variety of platforms to play, and a dynamic campaign in a seamless world. In fact if I knew one was actually going to come down the pipe, I'd start saving my pennies right now.

But another WW2 U-boat sim? Forget it. My 5 String Bass needs restrung, and I need another amp cable so I can use my wah-wah pedal again....

SkyBaron

04-08-11, 09:49 PM

Those are from a sim called 'Virtual Sailor'. I know; I made ship models for it at one point so I know the wake textures and stuff...

Where did you find those images? :-?

I didn't even know they were from Virtual Sailor :) I found them on google images while searching for 'submarine 3D models'

SkyBaron

04-08-11, 10:01 PM

Just to add to the wishlist, this might not be possible but I'd like to see a Nuclear Sub study sim (from Wikipedia's article on Combat Flight Sims: Modern jet combat aircraft and helicopters have a variety of complex electronic and weapon systems that are specific to a particular aircraft. This has led to a genre called the "study sim", which focuses on modelling an aircraft's systems as accurately as possible, often requiring thick manuals that rival the real manuals in detail.)

Something like what Eagle Dynamics did with the A-10C and the BlackShark simulations.

I'd rather have just one sub, say a Los Angeles class, with systems modeled as accurate as the available unclassified info would allow, than having generic station screens for many different subs classes. Having a nuclear reactor malfunction while cruising the Pacific would be interesting(in the sim not in RL :))

Kaye T. Bai

04-10-11, 10:27 PM

Delareon

04-12-11, 09:06 AM

oscar19681

04-13-11, 08:09 AM

Kaye T. Bai

04-13-11, 01:11 PM

There are no real modern day sub-sims out there apart from the ones Sonalysts made.

This is the real shame, yet more and more identical WWII sub sims are released every year.

Hawk66

04-13-11, 02:15 PM

To follow up everything thats been said in this thread,

...

Dynamic campaign, some form of moddability, better physics, and graphics are major players.

Thanks for posting your ideas and please if you think of anything else post it.

If I may add: Better AI...the major problem of DW's AI is that the tactical platform doctrine AI does only know its own world.

When you want to implement a Dynamic campaign, I think you need two layers of AI: strategical and tactical.

Ideally, both layers are accessible by modders...but pls not with that doctrine stuff but by using a real script language like Python/Lua.

The crew AI shall be made more capable and shall actively communicate with the human player so that he can play the sim with a captain's view.
What would be very great is if you could give high-level orders, like: follow this target (in a smart way) etc.

Also, currently you cannot communicate with other AI-platforms apart from sending the data link.

Julhelm

04-15-11, 04:28 PM

In my opinion the most important quality of a subsim is how well it does the whole tactical picture. After this comes ambience.

I play subsims during lunch breaks at work (The pros of working at a laidback business like a game studio), and I have to say Microprose's old Red Storm Rising is still unmatched when it comes to pure gameplay. Mainly because it isn't designed around operating various crew stations like all other sub sims (except Silent Service, which 25 years later still outpaces Silent Hunter IV in gameplay) but rather it is designed around an integrated tactical plot where you as captain is fed all relevant information, can analyze it, and plan your actions accordingly.

Fast Attack on the other hand models the 688I sub in excruciating detail, and it has a much better sense of "being there" than most other sub sims, mostly down to the excellent crew speech. It really feels like you are there commanding the sub from Crimson Tide or Hunt For The Red October. So-called "purists" may scoff at the idea but the difference between a game and a training tool is that the game has gameplay and gameplay is fun. I spent my stint in the navy working radar plots, identifying and plotting tracks. When I play Red Storm Rising or Fast Attack, they make me feel like a sub skipper stalking the bear, RSR more so. When I play Sub Command or Dangerous Waters, they make me feel like work.

So in conclusion I believe that a game with the gameplay of RSR combined with the outstanding atmosphere of Fast Attack would prove rather successful.

Frying Tiger

04-22-11, 10:13 AM

Any of you guys played Act of War: High Treason? It's an RTS with naval elements, you get to command OHP FFGs, Arleigh Burke DDGs, Los Angeles SSNs, Seawolf SSNs, Tarawa LHAs and more. Although it is very simplified, it is pretty entertaining.

I'd read a bit about it online, thanks for the recommendation. I'll try to check it out.

keltos01

04-22-11, 02:40 PM

still hoping u guys will follow suit and make a new game :)

keltos

SkyBaron

04-22-11, 05:26 PM

.
Fast Attack on the other hand models the 688I sub in excruciating detail, and it has a much better sense of "being there" than most other sub sims, mostly down to the excellent crew speech.

oh man Fast Attack is an awesome sub sim! :up: Based on pictures I've seen of the real thing, the sonar station layout looks very close to the real Los Angeles class station. Plus the authentic formatted mission messages look really cool. I still play it once in a while. I wish somebody did a remake of that game with current generation graphics.

SkyBaron

04-22-11, 05:27 PM

still hoping u guys will follow suit and make a new game :)

keltos

They did make a new game, it's calld Zoo Disc Golf :DL

http://www.theday.com/article/20100606/BIZ02/306069966/1070/FRONTPAGE

FERdeBOER

04-22-11, 07:17 PM

They did make a new game, it's calld Zoo Disc Golf :DL

http://www.theday.com/article/20100606/BIZ02/306069966/1070/FRONTPAGE

"Sonalysts gaming roots are in naval warfare modeling and simulation," says Castro, "and we will continue to fully support that part of the game business, as well."
:hmmm:

Kaye T. Bai

04-23-11, 12:43 AM

They did make a new game, it's called Zoo Disc Golf.

"This is so colossally retarded, I can't even say anything about it."

Arclight

04-23-11, 01:40 AM

It's not exactly my cup of tea either, but if these people enjoy making games, then let them make games.

Furthermore, if it provides the income needed to keep the company going it's all for the better, right? They definetly won't be making any games you do approve of if they're bankrupt.

Kaye T. Bai

04-23-11, 05:49 AM

Still, the irony of it all. Naval vessels engaging in fierce combat on the high seas, to smiling kangaroos prancing around and tossing frisbees? :hmmm:

mikka

04-23-11, 11:26 AM

omg it's true, i thought it was some april fools joke. :o
I'm going to have to withdraw my passionate defenses of sonalyst's business model. If they are going to make money-losing games they should stay with what they know.

Rip

04-23-11, 12:01 PM

Wow, I am speechless.

Funny quote about still making and supporting something they haven't made or supported in years. They might as well all quit and go to work for EA.

Kaye T. Bai

04-27-11, 11:15 AM

Wow, I am speechless. Funny quote about still making and supporting something they haven't made or supported in years. They might as well all quit and go to work for EA.

Blasphemy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08BE1bux9XA)

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/PhoenixElephant/despairsray/blasphemy.jpg

Just kidding. You're right. ;)

Molon Labe

04-27-11, 12:19 PM

Why make a game about kangaroos when you can make one about PONIES!!!!!?!?!?

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/079b61daf2e225e5d2e254440cd9e59e283efabf991ede89b7 53c191ccd39e854g.jpg

Frying Tiger

04-28-11, 07:14 AM

Uh, you're aware that 688i and Fleet Command were published by EA, right? (grin)

Molon Labe

04-28-11, 11:47 AM

I thought SC was EA and 688I and FC were Jane's. :hmmm:

TLAM Strike

04-28-11, 12:01 PM

I thought SC was EA and 688I and FC were Jane's. :hmmm:
JCS was a EA owned title IIRC.

Sonarman

04-28-11, 01:50 PM

Yes, EA just licensed the "Janes" name for their sim range, the games were actually designed by external contractors eg Sonalysts for 688 & FC, Origin (devs of Wing Commander) for the Longbow series and many of the "F" games and Looking Glass studios (Flight Unlimited series) for the barely completed last title "Janes Attack Squadron". By the time Sub Command came along the deal with Janes had ended hence it was released simply as an EA title. Whether DW would have been a bigger success if it had been an EA title is questionable it was originally released exclusively through Battlefront.com later finding a retail EU boxed distribution deal via Black Bean Games who also handled Enigma Rising Tide.

Coffee_Freak

05-02-11, 04:53 AM

I would like to see another game like Fleet Command, along the lines of the Harpoon series but with a more user friendly interface. I think that type of game would appeal to a broader market, an RTS type game with accurate modelling which would allow gamers to apply real world tactics. I, for one, have been keeping my eye on the Red Pill project but I have confidence that Sonalysts could come up with a similar concept or better. I'd definately put my money into something of that sort. ..

Who knows, that type of game could help support development of a DW sequel?

Just my two cents.

oscar19681

05-03-11, 11:38 AM

:hmmm: that explains these pics I found online:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5934/17821902.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4676/63867511.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9305/28833693.jpg

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/2083/81797375.jpg

Allthought this was a hoax it would come close to what i would want to see in a new modern sub-sim. that and a 3-d intereur and animated crew. 2-d panels could still be maintained as an option for the ones who want it. But i,ve been waiting for so long for a good decent modern subsim but it just never comes!!! Oh well i guess ill keep on dreaming.

oscar19681

05-07-11, 04:16 PM

Hmm we might as well close this thread. If sonalysts ever decide to do another subsim this thread will be long gone anyway. And activaty seems to be extemely low anyway. To be honoust i personally believe it wont ever happen anyway.

Arclight

05-07-11, 04:56 PM

Your optimism never ceases to amaze me.

oscar19681

05-07-11, 07:23 PM

Hey i had a bad day!

TheAbyss

05-14-11, 12:22 AM

Whatever the game (subs needed!), I'd like a campaign structure similar to SH3/4.

I can see how a protracted conventional war on the sea could work; figure WW2 with modern equipment (Vietnam is a good example). Merchant shipping is always going to be a target--think the Iran-Iraq tanker war on a much larger scale. An abundant 688 might be tasked with escort duty of much needed supplies, whereas the opposing side in an abundant diesel-electric sub may be tasked with disrupting them. Plus many other mission types available.

Kaye T. Bai

05-14-11, 10:27 PM

On another note, I think this question has been asked before, but if it hasn't, I'll ask it now.

Will the new ship models included in DARPA ACTUV be added into Dangerous Waters, via patch or such?

PL_Andrev

05-15-11, 12:09 PM

As been said before no promises, and there is still none, but I have been reading every suggestion about what a new game would need.

One of the biggest ones that I have seen mentioned is a dynamic campaign.

Dynamic campaign, some form of moddability, better physics, and graphics are major players.

Thanks for posting your ideas and please if you think of anything else post it.
"Dynamic campaign, some form of moddability, better physics, and graphics" are available at Silent Hunter 5. Now I playing World of Tanks only. Why? Funny multiplayer matches with different classes with different nationalities.

Since SH3 many players have waited for new Destroyer Command 2 to play against human submarine players. To play other warships (SH, DW mods). To play other nationalities (SH, DW mods too). But you (as developers) offer new SUB game again and again...
I've read "Valve has unreleased submarine game". God, again a SUB game?

An online component really doesn't interest me. I've always thought that submarine simulators translate very poorly to multiplay.
I've played modded SH2/DC as DD with friends against german, american and italian submarines (friends too) and these matches were very funny for all, especially when our ships were attacked and our DDs cannot localize 'elite' human sub-players...
This was (for me) much more fun time than DC, SH single games or SH3/SH4 matches...

Molon Labe

05-15-11, 01:55 PM

Since SH3 many players have waited for new Destroyer Command 2 to play against human submarine players.

I have yet to play the Silent Hunter games, but had they made a Destroyer Command 2 to go along with SH3, I would have purchased both. I was really surprised that they didn't, especially when they went ahead and did SH4. I always considered SH3 incomplete without the opportunity to play against a human adversary.

LoBlo

05-15-11, 03:53 PM

LoBlo's wishlist for the next DW game
1. Waterfall display for the Gepard AkulaII

2. More Voice effects such as
A. Navigation verbal alert when a waypoint is reached such as "Waypoint reached, coming left to course xxx, helm aye."
B. Helms providing a voice feedback when a ordered depth is reach (identical to when an ordered course is reached). "Captain my depth is xxx feet."
C. Sonar notification when a contact is lost (similar to how fast attack used to play)

3. The ability to cash dive

4. Larger and more extensive coastal/land structures to place on the mission maps. For example, rather than just modeling in isolated buildings, perhaps a entire city skyline could be modeled and placed on a map in the map editor. Right now all coastal missions look barren and desolate.

5. Waypointing for sublaunched harpoon (as is already available for the OHP harpoon).

6. More post-launch wire-guided torpedo control

7. Dynamic campaign similar to Silent Hunter

8. More sophificated/robust AI (like the RA mod).

9. More sophisicated sound model by allowing non-linear sound vs speed effects. Like the one shown below.

http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf_02.gif

LoBlo

05-15-11, 03:59 PM

But to answer the specific question on the first post. The next game should be like DW. The 1 new feature above all else should be an unpredictable and dynamic campaign (where enemy locations and missions are dynamically created, not scripted).

PL_Andrev

05-28-11, 02:20 AM

But to answer the specific question on the first post. The next game should be like DW.
You're right but not exactly.
See on DW mods. It should be the right way to develop the new DW game.
"Dynamic capaign" isn't possible to be created succesfully, as SH5 shown.

Sorry, but you think like the game developers - without learn on other's products mistakes.

Molon Labe

05-28-11, 02:50 AM

"Dynamic capaign" isn't possible to be created succesfully, as SH5 shown.

Sorry, but you think like the game developers - without learn on other's products mistakes.

Falcon 4.0 has shown otherwise, and other developers would do well to learn from that success.

TheGreatHonker

05-30-11, 02:50 AM

Surface Vessel vs. Subs vs. Aircraft (like in dangerous waters.)

Of course, dynamic campaign.

More surface vessels.

More aircraft (EA/-18G for example, screw up radio comms, bomb some ships, and it would feel weird to flightsimmers, but shooting down a Tu-95 by clicking...)

Generated quick missions like SH3 multiplayer has.

Wide variety of subs, Chinese, Russian, European (Gotland class!!!), and of course the newer American subs (Virginia class).

More nations and multiple campaigns (US and SK vs. China and NK or US vs Iran missions, UN vs. Russia, India vs Pakistan, etc etc.)

Dedicated multiplayer servers.

100 player multiplayer servers (lol yeah right, everyone would choose a sub anyways).

And of course a new platform with better graphics.

Basically an overhauled Dangerous Waters.

TheGreatHonker

05-30-11, 02:59 AM

...and by dynamic campaign I mean the whole campaign wouldn't be entirely affected by the players decisions, but randomly generated enemies, and the campaign being somewhat affected by the players, like Combat Flight Simulator 3.

If you just plod through every mission and maybe only bomb one or two ships every now and then, and just look for fighters (or the bombers you escort all get shot down) your countries invasion can fail or your country will be invaded. If you bomb every ship, bunker, factory, and vehicle you see the campaign progresses a lot faster in your favor.

I've had one CFS3 campaign as the Germans last until 1947... had some epic jet battles.

Hawk66

06-21-11, 01:44 PM

Falcon 4.0 has shown otherwise, and other developers would do well to learn from that success.

It's definitely not impossible but a resource eater. I'd be already happy to see a more advanced mission generator (like the existing quick mission generator, but much more advanced) and an improved Mission Editor.
(@Sonalysts guys: You might check out the DCS A10 mission editor; it has interfaces to LUA, that is you can also partly script the missions via a scripting language).

Perhaps they could sell a dynamic campaign add-in later to earn additional money or give modders the tools/api access to do so.

Anyways, I think it's not possible to build the ONE dynamic campaign. Modern naval stuff is so much varied (beginning from recon, ASW etc., not to mention mine warfare and rescue missions and different time periods)...much more varied than typical Falcon 4.0 scenarios, I think.

Since we have no hard facts since last December, I've unfortunately big doubts that we see any DW successor at all :-(. But perhaps I am too pessimistic, I'd wish I am...

How times have changed: Last weekend I've cleaned up my room and found a special edition of a gaming magazine of the year 1990: "Simulations". No seller would order such a magazine today...

Looney11

06-21-11, 05:17 PM

For the surface vessels, I would like to see a much more detailed EW suite. The number one sensor to detect other entities while staaying passive yourself is reception of radar signals. In order to classify entities, a lot of parameters are present like pulse repetition frequency, pulse repetition interval and so on.

oscar19681

06-30-11, 04:28 PM

I dont understand people still post stuff in this thread. Its as if they actually believe sonalists are really gonna do a new Sim :har:

The closest you are gonna get to a "new" sim from sonalists is the awfull overly boring darpa game. Boy what a letdown that was!!

Imamar

06-30-11, 11:23 PM

A high definition version of Dangerous Waters, Track- Ir support for planes and choppers, utilizing high end joysticks like Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar/ Warthog, good uptodate graphics with solid optimizing for all kinds of comps. But at the same time, really hard core simulator, nothin arcade.
Thanks! :cool:

Hawk66

07-01-11, 10:26 AM

spook

11-16-11, 09:07 AM

OIC .. which means the other two are from XabbaRus. :salute:

Actually they are all mine....

spook

11-16-11, 09:10 AM

:hmmm: that explains these pics I found online:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5934/17821902.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4676/63867511.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9305/28833693.jpg

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/2083/81797375.jpg

those subs are mine, why someone put a logo on them is beyond me, but those are for Dr Sids sim and I released them for Virtual Sailor, thats where these screen shots are from...

Dr.Sid

11-16-11, 01:35 PM

Akula and Typhoon too ? I instantly recognized your 688 though !

spook

11-16-11, 01:54 PM

Akula and Typhoon too ? I instantly recognized your 688 though !

yup, they are all mine.......you'll need to replace that Akula you have in your sim with this one.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1597/57392991.jpg

Theta Sigma

11-17-11, 01:47 AM

This thread makes me drool too much. :damn:

Hawk66

11-18-11, 12:48 PM

yup...and since the Sonalysts guys seem to be submerged, the only option for the future seems to be indie sims.

Sea Demon

12-08-11, 02:08 PM

yup...and since the Sonalysts guys seem to be submerged, the only option for the future seems to be indie sims.

What indie sims are we talking about? :hmmm:

magicstix

12-08-11, 09:45 PM

yup, they are all mine.......you'll need to replace that Akula you have in your sim with this one.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1597/57392991.jpg

Spook, gimme that sub model! >:D

Also, why does virtual sailor show refraction underwater? O_o

spook

12-09-11, 11:52 PM

Spook, gimme that sub model! >:D

Also, why does virtual sailor show refraction underwater? O_o

what do you want it for?

if you want it for VS, you can get it here:

http://www.3d-shipmeshes.com/

not sure what ya mean by refraction under water tho.....unless you mean the wavyness under water, if so, VS doesnt do that, I added it with photoshop because I like the way it looks sometimes