View Full Version : Tuition hike protesters attack car carrying Prince Charles, Camilla
London (CNN) -- Protesters enraged by a Parliament vote to triple university tuition rate caps, attacked a car carrying Prince Charles and Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, Thursday night.
The demonstrators broke a window and tossed paint on the car, however neither royal family member was injured in the attack.
'We can confirm that their Royal Highnesses' car was attacked by protesters on the way to their engagement at the London Palladium this evening," a spokesman for the prince said. "Their Royal Highnesses are unharmed."
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/09/uk.tuition.protests/index.html?hpt=T2
Note: December 10, 2010 Updated 0757 GMT (1557 HKT)
GoldenRivet
12-10-10, 03:51 AM
I'd be pissed too.
;)
Herr-Berbunch
12-10-10, 04:15 AM
It's not like they have to stump up (up to) £9k up front, they have to be earning above a certain threshold and pay back the price of a night out (debatable) per month. Is it not a price worth paying for investing in your own future?
Now I believe future tuition fees should include paying for damage and policing during these riots!
Alternatively they could do what the rest of us do and get a job and study part time.
Onkel Neal
12-10-10, 08:24 AM
Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.
danlisa
12-10-10, 08:39 AM
It's not like they have to stump up (up to) £9k up front, they have to be earning above a certain threshold and pay back the price of a night out (debatable) per month. Is it not a price worth paying for investing in your own future?
True, repay is set to a pre-tax amount of £21000 per annum but that's not the students concern.
Basic university courses are 4/5 years long, with medical or legal being longer than 7. After 5 years of tuition, a graduate leaves with £50000 of debt.
This graduate has to now find a job and a place to live to enjoy their education, job and future.
Ah yes! I'll see the bank manager and get a mortgage on this property. Bank manager is all like :har:, no chance with that debt.
Students are blacklisted the moment they leave university.
In this day and age of national debt and economy concerns, is it prudent to ensure that our nations future are debted to their eyeballs before they even commence employment.
I support the protests (not the violence) purely because a government shouldn't promise no rise in tuition fees (or the actual removal of fees) and then do the opposite thing.
The Charles and Camilla incident is pure idiocy. I can't think of anyone in this country that has done more for the young generation then Prince Chuck.:nope:
Jimbuna
12-10-10, 08:46 AM
Outrageous, the student protesters attacked Prince Charles car and a helpless looking horse.
Prince Charles was reported to be fine, but Camilla was a little shaken ...
Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.
Amen Brother. :rock:
In all seriousness though, attacking the Royal car was a mistake and gave focus to all the media services on that particular incident as opposed to the events of the entire day, including a rather impressive cavalry charge into the middle of the crowd. The Daily Fails was the best of them all...wait for it... "THE FEAR IN HER EYES!" :damn::nope:
I do feel sorry for the police stuck in the middle of it, particularly given the fact that they're protecting a system which is effectively broken, and like the crowds were chanting at the cops yesterday "You're next."
Cameron must be rubbing his hands in glee, his proposal has gotten through (just) and the person who is taking the most flak for it is Clegg.
Clegg, by not showing a bit of backbone, has basically put the Lib Dems back into the stone ages. The one major chance they had to prove themselves and they're blown it big time.
My vote will be going to the Monster Raving Loony Party next time I think, they're about the only ones who know what they're doing.
Anyway, people in the media saying about the "anarchy, riots, destruction", have pretty darn short memories, it was only about ten years ago we were watching this on television:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeFS6S06w8c
The police have certainly improved tactics since then, and I dare say casualties have been reduced too.
SteamWake
12-10-10, 09:42 AM
Yea that whole scene looked pretty ugly. I hope the US never comes to that point because they wont stop at breaking windows. Hell look what we do when a sports team wins or loses for that matter.
But I'm with neal free pensions for everyone !!! :woot:
Jimbuna
12-10-10, 10:10 AM
Amen Brother. :rock:
In all seriousness though, attacking the Royal car was a mistake and gave focus to all the media services on that particular incident as opposed to the events of the entire day, including a rather impressive cavalry charge into the middle of the crowd. The Daily Fails was the best of them all...wait for it... "THE FEAR IN HER EYES!" :damn::nope:
I do feel sorry for the police stuck in the middle of it, particularly given the fact that they're protecting a system which is effectively broken, and like the crowds were chanting at the cops yesterday "You're next."
Cameron must be rubbing his hands in glee, his proposal has gotten through (just) and the person who is taking the most flak for it is Clegg.
Clegg, by not showing a bit of backbone, has basically put the Lib Dems back into the stone ages. The one major chance they had to prove themselves and they're blown it big time.
My vote will be going to the Monster Raving Loony Party next time I think, they're about the only ones who know what they're doing.
Anyway, people in the media saying about the "anarchy, riots, destruction", have pretty darn short memories, it was only about ten years ago we were watching this on television:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeFS6S06w8c
The police have certainly improved tactics since then, and I dare say casualties have been reduced too.
Ah yes, the poll tax riots....and a smashing time was had by all :hmmm:
Capt Sinbad
12-10-10, 10:14 AM
Peaceful protest in the UK gets you no where
SteamWake
12-10-10, 10:40 AM
Peaceful protest in the UK gets you no where
Violence makes you look crazy though. :nope:
The money for that "free" education has to come from somewhere. Maybe you Brits could cut back on NHS services or something?
joegrundman
12-10-10, 12:54 PM
The thing about these protests is that they come with a context that is distinct from the US national discourse.
It is a generational thing, and intertwined with the financial crisis.
The financial crisis in Britain is serious, and is in short the very large national debt. The dramatic growth of this national debt had two components. Firstly overlarge public spending with Brown as chancellor and then prime minister, secondly the huge spending on the financial sector to prevent it from collapsing altogether. In this the British taxpayer bought out the debt of the banks.
The British press is becoming ever more partisan on the matter, and all blame is shifted to just one of these two causes, depending on the political viewpoint of the newspaper (see if you can guess which supports which view).
In any case, this government has decided that the answer is to massively cut down on that part of public spending which does not negatively affect the financial sector, but keep spending on that which helps it (eg the bailout of ireland which is mainly in effect a second bank bailout for british banks)
One of the many areas that are targeted for savings is student tuition fees.
To an american there seems to be no reason why taxpayers should have to pay for students, and the right-wing press in britain is full of pundits pontificating on the absurd entitlement attitude of modern youth.
But it is worth appreciating that every single legislator and pundit in britain (except the very young and precocious) paid absolutely nothing in tuition fees, and may well have also had living costs paid for courtesy of the taxpayer. That these same people in secure positions later in life are saying to the young that the young must pay where the older generation had it easy is an unpleasant thing to hear, especially when those that must pay did nothing to contribute to the financial crisis whereas those that are now legislating are the generation that made such a mess of it.
It is not just student debts, house prices have gone crazy in britain as a result of silly financial policy and now the average age of first home buying is expected to increase by about 10 years from how it has been until recently. in short it looks to the younger generation as if they are being punished in order to pay for the foul ups of the older.
It may be that the student protests have no hope of substantial change from what is planned, but it's possible to sympathise with the sentiments.
As for scaring the royal couple. whatever. they are not in hospital tonight unlike half a dozen policemen and about 50 students.
gimpy117
12-10-10, 02:20 PM
Personally, I don't care if england is in a hard time. Politicians talk and talk and talk about how "our children are our future" but then they let college tuition go through the roof. It's as if once we graduate high school they don't care. I'm glad to see such vigorous protest across the pond, education is something everyone should be able to have, and especially be able to have without getting buried in debt. Here in the USA and Britain, places where our parents had it pretty easy, the kids are now being pressed harder and harder. Tuition is skyrocketing, its expected to double in the next 10 years, something i highly doubt the CPI will do. I recall my parents saying that they worked an entire summer to pay their tuition for the year. Now, us kids work an entire summer to pay for the part they're aid or loans do not cover.
There is going to be a rude awakening in this nation when only the few can afford higher education. Unfortunately I think that day is soon to come.
I think a good deal of the anger comes from this:
http://www.leftfootforward.org/images/2010/11/Nick-Clegg-tuition-fees-pledge.jpg
Most students voted for the Lib Dems on this basis, and now they feel betrayed. It's the usual game of politics, but students haven't had the god alone knows how many years of being shafted by politicians that the older generation has had.
Lessons must be learned from a security lapse which allowed protesters to smash the Prince of Wales' car window, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11969030
Note: Update post, 10 December 2010 Last updated at 18:21 GMT
nikimcbee
12-10-10, 04:27 PM
Outrageous, the student protesters attacked Prince Charles car and a helpless looking horse.
Prince Charles was reported to be fine, but Camilla was a little shaken ...
I'm glad Steed was unhurt.
Jimbuna
12-10-10, 05:06 PM
Personally, I don't care if england is in a hard time. Politicians talk and talk and talk about how "our children are our future" but then they let college tuition go through the roof. It's as if once we graduate high school they don't care. I'm glad to see such vigorous protest across the pond, education is something everyone should be able to have, and especially be able to have without getting buried in debt. Here in the USA and Britain, places where our parents had it pretty easy, the kids are now being pressed harder and harder. Tuition is skyrocketing, its expected to double in the next 10 years, something i highly doubt the CPI will do. I recall my parents saying that they worked an entire summer to pay their tuition for the year. Now, us kids work an entire summer to pay for the part they're aid or loans do not cover.
There is going to be a rude awakening in this nation when only the few can afford higher education. Unfortunately I think that day is soon to come.
^ :up:
Platapus
12-10-10, 05:12 PM
Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.
Hmm assuming that the number of adults in the US is about 200 million. Paying everyone $1 million would be $200,000,000,000,000. Two hundred trillion dollars per year. Hmm in a few years, if our spending is not put under control, that might be the cheaper alternative. :DL
Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.
If everything is free we no longer need money. :)
I'm glad Steed was unhurt.
I was busy eating a hot dog, no time to be caught up in that. ;)
DarkFish
12-11-10, 10:51 AM
They are planning some tuition reforms in the Netherlands as well.
As of now, university is basically free. I get almost enough money to live and pay for my education (almost enough to live, not enough to go out. Basically the government pays everything I need except my beer.)
But now they want to change their policy, so that college money gets increased to in my case 5000 a year (3700 more than it currently is). Furthermore, if their plans come through, you only get money for the minimum duration of your study + 1 year. Electrical engineering has a theoretical minimum duration of 5 years, but almost nobody makes that, with the average being 7,5 years. Which means the average student suddenly has to cough up an extra 30000 out of nowhere.
And in the meantime they keep complaining that we don't learn enough and we should study more and longer:nope:
DarkFish
12-11-10, 12:03 PM
I can't think of anyone in this country that has done more for the young generation then Prince Chuck.:nope:Like using taxpayer's money to buy new limousines?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_the_British_Royal_Family[/URL]"]The BBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC) estimated the annual cost to the British Public of keeping the Royal Family to be £41.5M though this figure does not include the cost of security provided by the Police and the Army.
Like using taxpayer's money to buy new limousines?
It ain't like Prince Charles just decided one day to go out shopping for new cars instead of fund the British education system.
Government paid college tuition is a far greater burden on the taxpayer than the trappings of monarchy. That 41.5 million pounds wouldn't even make a dent in paying for it.
DarkFish
12-11-10, 03:49 PM
It ain't like Prince Charles just decided one day to go out shopping for new cars instead of fund the British education system.
Government paid college tuition is a far greater burden on the taxpayer than the trappings of monarchy. That 41.5 million pounds wouldn't even make a dent in paying for it.That number is without security costs and "ceremonial duties". With those costs included it would be much higher, probably much closer to 100 million pounds, though the exact costs have never been disclosed for obvious reasons.
Anyway, let's take 100 million pounds as a reasonable guess. Divide this by the 2 million students in the UK and it would be 50 pounds (=€60=$80) a student a year. I agree this is still not extraordinarily much, but does this make this mass theft right?
EDIT: make this number twice as much (see Vendor's post below).
EDIT2: meanwhile in the Netherlands, some guy who has thrown a glass candle holder against the Dutch queen's golden (!) coach in early september has been in our heaviest security prison ever since (normally reserved for the really heavy guys), awaiting trial for *terrorism* sometime next year!
http://www.republic.org.uk/What%20we%20want/In%20depth/Royal%20finances/index.php
XabbaRus
12-11-10, 04:41 PM
Ironically the tories are to blame for all this.
Back when they were last in power in this great effort to show that the UK was a leading educational establishment they decided to allow polytechnics and other colleges that were perfectly good in their role as vocational educational establishments become universities. Therefore there were more institutions chasing the same amount of money, coupled with the fact that it was now derigeur for everyone to go to university as that is how we have been conditioned. Therefore, more uni's, more students, less money.
The quality of these new unis is debatable and has led to the rise of degree course such as "media studies", "sanitation and hygiene" which I am not joking is a bin man's course. Now with every tom dick and harry having a degree it has been devalued, therefore the leading institutions want to maintain their status as they do leading research, therefore need more money.
gimpy117
12-11-10, 04:45 PM
They are planning some tuition reforms in the Netherlands as well.
I like how they call it "reforms" it's not a reform at all, it's simply making the students pay more. Politicians can spin anything.
I think education should be the absolute LAST thing they cut. Were being edged out by china, our youth need education. Places like The Dominican Republic are paying to send their kids to our colleges, but we can't do the same when we are some of the most prosperous nations in the world?
robbo180265
12-11-10, 06:45 PM
Interesting thread and one close to my heart, you see my brother was at the demo and wrote an account of what happened.
He posted it on Facebook so I'll copy and paste it here for you guys to read. I believe what he said and it certainly sheds light on the situation. He swears that the media are deliberately painting a picture of violent youths in order to discredit the protesters and I believe him.
Anyway here's the account of the protest:
Our contingent from Birmingham University arrived at the demo at 3pm by which time, despite that everyone was in a good natured mood it was already kettled.
It was possible to get in but after that it was impossible to get out but as we had come all this way to be at the demo the majority of us went in. Just as an aside at this point i would like to say that i heard the Commissioner of police on the radio this morning who was saying that the only reason that they employ "containment" tactics is to pacify the crowd. To this i would like to say two things; (1)the people were already passive so why imprison people excercising their democratic right to protest? (2) imprisoning people does not pacify them, it makes them angry.
The ambience within the kettle was good natured, there were drummers and a mobile music system and people were either dancing or shouting slogans, in fact it was a pretty passive and laid back as demos go.
At around dusk, on the West side of the square, police on horseback delivered an unprovoked attack on us. I was not an eyewitness to this but everyone said it was unprovoked and this was borne out by a friend who phoned me to say she had just seen it live on BBC news and apparently the reporter was clearly shocked. Funnily enough this report and film has disappeared of the BBC website overnight.
At this point there was a general shift of people, of which i was one, to the East side of the square because the word went around that they were going to start letting people out but instead we encountered a wall of riot police who, by their body language, were clearly up for it!
We started to shout that we wanted to be let out bcause we were cold, thirsty and needed a piss to which there was no response. A few people, clearly exasperated threw plastic water bottles and sticks at them, there being no other ammunition anyway.
At this point one flank of the police charged us employing riot shields and and aiming for people's heads with their truncheons. It was at this point that one lad got hit hard enough to be brain damaged.
One of my companions went to the police line and demanded a medic for which he got punched in the face.
Several people laid him on a piece of temporary fencing as a stretcher and carried him to safety. At this point things really took off, whilst we started using crowd barriers as battering rams against their shield wall several other students starte to try and break in to the Treasury via the windows, the irony of an occupation of the Treasury building was not lost on anyone. The police claim there were rent-a-mob elements involved, this is not true, i saw young girls trying to smash through the bomb proof windows too.
Meanwhile we had built our own barricade by the corner of the Treasury building to stop them charging us and there appeared to be a bit of a stand-off.
Suddenly a flash squad of police appeared from another direction and ran towards the people trying to break in through the windows.
At this point, i didn't see it, but i heard from different sources that one of the police ran over the boy with the head injury and used the opportunity to hit him on the head again.
After all this the police advanced from all sides and concentrated us into an ever decreasing space and we shouted out that we demanded to be released.
They said that we would be released in small groups but after more than an hour this was proved to be a lie.
Eventually they said we could go but only via Westminster Bridge. At the time i thought this was odd and i realised that corralling us on a bridge was a tactical move on their part which it proved to be.
We were held on the bridge for well over an hour bounded by riot police on both sides. Finally we lost our patience and the general feeling was that if 3,000 people were to push that we could push our way out but it would appear we couldn't.
The net result of this was that everyone was squeezed together so tightly that nobody could move their arms or breathe properly, it was not possible for us to spread out because we were penned in by the police on both sides. We endured this for more than half an hour and it started to get serious when a few people started to pass out.
Finally they started to let us out one at a time and we had to pass through a 200 yard corridor of riot police and made to take our hats off so that we could be photographed.
This is an account of what what was largely a group of teenagers could do and i'm hugely proud of them.
The "kid with brain damage" actually had a stroke because of the attack on him with a truncheon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098
The money for that "free" education has to come from somewhere. Maybe you Brits could cut back on NHS services or something?
No chance - we like our comunistical health service here :O: my uncle would have died many years before he eventually did without it.
Maybe politicians should learn to tell the truth for a change, even if it's not going to sway voters with election fever. Too long have successive generations of electorate listened to the forked tongue of popularist power mongers, only to be laughed at once a new government is voted in.
I think for the students it's slightly less about the actual fees system and more about the lies and broken election pledges; For the first time their idealism has been exposed for the blatant electioneering sham that it is and they are angry about it. I would be too if I cast my vote based on what any of these career politicians had to offer.
As for the royals... well, it was kinda naive of them to have such a high profile given what was happening in london at the time, surely all the money they have could pay for minders with a little common sense?
None of the royal persons were hurt, but I'd wager they have more of an insight into the plight of the common man now than they did a week ago hahaha - Heloooooo?! britain is fast becoming intolerant of fat, over privileged ticks.
I'm not anti monarchy, but really! They ought to know better.
EDIT:
Fact is, the media (yet again) have made a mahoosive song and dance about the 'rioting students' and how terrible it all is, but students today are much less demonstrative and anti establishment than they were back in the 70's - these days they only bother making a fuss if it's something that effects them directly. Plus there's a lot more students than there used to be back then - it's not what it could be if you believe the media hype.
Good account Robbo, I saw the charge live, and yeah the reporter was surprised by it, in fact they were talking to a reporter at the front line just before it happened and he was nearly run over by the horses as they mustered for the charge.
Also saw the charge at the treasury live.
The students are getting more organised now, I saw some improvised shields, and the fences as battering rams against the treasury was novel, however the police continue to have the upper hand in regards to body armour, shields and truncheons. If ever that were equalized, and the students did not fall back at a police charge...then the real chaos would begin.
When's the next one due?
robbo180265
12-11-10, 06:57 PM
Also - the attack on Charles and Camila was bad , but ask yourselves - if you were in charge of security, and those two were travelling through London during a protest that was allegedly of a violent nature, would you allow them to travel by car? Would you allow them straight through the route of the protesters?
^^
Apparently it's not that simple :rolleyes:
Tribesman
12-11-10, 07:09 PM
i heard the Commissioner of police on the radio this morning who was saying that the only reason that they employ "containment" tactics is to pacify the crowd.
Havn't they shown time and time again that their "containment" policies actually cause trouble.
The "kid with brain damage" actually had a stroke because of the attack on him with a truncheon
At least thats an improvement, last time the British police really publicly screwed someone over with a truncheon it wasn't even a protester, it was just some bloke on his way home who ended up dead.
robbo180265
12-11-10, 07:10 PM
As to the date of the next protest I'm not too sure Oberon, I will ask him and report back here.
robbo180265
12-11-10, 07:13 PM
Havn't they shown time and time again that their "containment" policies actually cause trouble.
The cynic in me suspects that was the whole point of the containment, add to that a particulaly juicy target sent right through the angry mob and......
Voila! - Bad press!
Tribesman
12-11-10, 07:40 PM
The cynic in me suspects that was the whole point of the containment, add to that a particulaly juicy target sent right through the angry mob and......
Well there could be that, but the royal inspectorsof constabulary put problems down to lack of leardership, lack of training/incorrect training and ignorance of the law(which is funny as enforcing law is pretty much the entire job description so ignorance of the law should be a sackable offence).
I am reminded of that comedian doing his London McProtests, he had a proper policeman with him to stop the police who didn't know the laws from trying to arrest him:doh:
gimpy117
12-11-10, 07:59 PM
Havn't they shown time and time again that their "containment" policies actually cause trouble.
containment policies do. They provoke violence. I remember a huge party at Western Michigan University that the police decided to surround, posturing for some kind of a "show of force". Some kid threw a bottle and it went from there. Tear gas, Mace, Pepper-spray paint balls...the whole 9 yards.
but we were just partying, you brits are clearly having your rights trodden on.
Tribesman
12-11-10, 08:46 PM
Which brits gimpy?
gimpy117
12-11-10, 09:13 PM
the students
robbo180265
12-11-10, 09:18 PM
Tbh all of us.
The majority of voters no-longer have a party to vote for. British politics have gone the way of American politics, in that you can vote middle, right or far right. This means that the majority of voters no-longer vote, which is worrying as it allows parties like the BNP to gain ground.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/12/london_tuition_fee_protest.html
Some more pictures of the day.
SteamWake
12-12-10, 09:02 AM
Why riot over something silly like tuition. Here in the US we do it over serious stuff... like bathrooms !!
What happened was two students started fighting, and the principal got mad, and closed all the bathrooms, and then all the kids went crazy and just started a riot, one student said.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/12/10/bathroom-ban-leads-to-riot-at-nyc-high-school/
Im not making light of the UK's plight. Rather I am pointing out how easy this kind of thing could get started in the US. Wait till they start messing with medicare and pensions
Armistead
12-12-10, 09:40 AM
About everything our government has done the last 30 years is to create a two class society, educatin will now become a part of that process. Same thing happening to GB. We've created a system to allow corporations to build massive wealth with no real benefit to America as a whole. The corporations strip the dollar and use it to buy real assets, then expect the government to bail them out with money, unfair regulation, tax codes, trade, ect..and do it again.
The majority of Americans can't afford college. Most students in high school don't use the same repetitive crap they learn the last 2-3 years. They should turn high schools into trade and business schools and give them skills they can use.
To all British students, politicians no longer represent us they legislate us.
And it will get worst, sorry to say.
nikimcbee
12-12-10, 10:27 AM
Ironically the tories are to blame for all this.
Back when they were last in power in this great effort to show that the UK was a leading educational establishment they decided to allow polytechnics and other colleges that were perfectly good in their role as vocational educational establishments become universities. Therefore there were more institutions chasing the same amount of money, coupled with the fact that it was now derigeur for everyone to go to university as that is how we have been conditioned. Therefore, more uni's, more students, less money.
The quality of these new unis is debatable and has led to the rise of degree course such as "media studies", "sanitation and hygiene" which I am not joking is a bin man's course. Now with every tom dick and harry having a degree it has been devalued, therefore the leading institutions want to maintain their status as they do leading research, therefore need more money.
So, do you guys have a feminist studies program? Does the UK higher ed/ uni system waste as much money on sports as the US does?
nikimcbee
12-12-10, 10:31 AM
containment policies do. They provoke violence. I remember a huge party at Western Michigan University that the police decided to surround, posturing for some kind of a "show of force". Some kid threw a bottle and it went from there. Tear gas, Mace, Pepper-spray paint balls...the whole 9 yards.
but we were just partying, you brits are clearly having your rights trodden on.
...and this is why all of our engineers come from India, Korea, Japan, and China.:nope:
US students go to school to drink; Asians go to learn.:shifty:
gimpy117
12-12-10, 02:23 PM
...and this is why all of our engineers come from India, Korea, Japan, and China.:nope:
US students go to school to drink; Asians go to learn.:shifty:
I debate that. You can have fun and still get a good education in this country. Part of the problem is that they keep those engineers in asia and make them work for much cheaper.
XabbaRus
12-12-10, 03:17 PM
I understand the students being upset, but they do my head in as much as the politicians.
Given the last lot of protests ended in violence can you blame the police for wanting to contain them. Like I said too many students doing too many stupid courses, needs money. The tax payers are paying enough.
gimpy117
12-12-10, 03:29 PM
Like I said too many students doing too many stupid courses, needs money. The tax payers are paying enough.
Well unfortunately these "stupid courses" no matter how dumb are becoming REQUIRED by the schools. I'm doing a technical degree and for some reason WMU thinks I need a music class. I'm sure its the same in england. Its a simple tool the schools use to get more money.
Jimbuna
12-12-10, 04:17 PM
I'm not going to debate the rights and wrongs or who I believe is at fault but having been involved in civil disorder on quite a few occasions and commenting only on the live coverage I have seen on tv it is obvious there are faults on both sides.
If a protest is peaceful and the advice of the authorities is adhered to....and don't forget that is the job of the police and not the protestors as far as the statute books go....then there should be no need for violence.
There were obviously anarchists within the ranks of the protestors and the physical input originally stemmed from those within the protestors ranks.
As soon as that happens it is obviously seen as a breach of the law and the police have the lawful right to take whatever corrective measures their superiors deem acceptable.
Those measures must be 'reasonable' and whilst I readily admit there are faults on both sides, there may not have been any injured parties had the protestors remained 'peaceful' and not resorted to attempts at assaulting officers in the course of their lawful duty.
The protestors feel passionate about their treatment by the government and I agree with them but the minute they resort to violence I suspect they lose the majority of the public sympathy vote.
I watched a documentary about Rev Jessie Jackson today and was frankly shocked at the way Dr King and peaceful protestors were treated by the authorities in areas such as Alabama....now that is what I call excessive.
If similar treatment is passed out by one of our officers (the case above about the death of an innocent byestander being a classic example) and film/video footage is available (which is generally the case considering the depth of media coverage these days) then that officer will be dealt with under the same laws as those of said protestors who commit offences....of that I am confident.
It is a terrible shame that the police always get the short end of the stick in this, stuck between a rock and a hard place, I dare say more than a couple of them think that Tweedledum and Tweedledummer are doing a great job of annoying an already tense country, but it's their job to keep public order and so they have to protect the idiots that have gotten us into this mess to begin with.
DarkFish
12-12-10, 04:54 PM
Like I said too many students doing too many stupid courses, needs money.But are all these "stupid courses" really university courses? That would make no sense, would it?
In the Netherlands, we've got courses like that as well, but they aren't universitary, and are subject to other much cheaper regulations AFAIK.
Well unfortunately these "stupid courses" no matter how dumb are becoming REQUIRED by the schools. I'm doing a technical degree and for some reason WMU thinks I need a music class. I'm sure its the same in england. Its a simple tool the schools use to get more money.Of course I can't speak for the Brits, but here in the Netherlands I've never heard of stupid courses like that. I'm studying electrical engineering, and while certainly not every course we follow is related to engineering, all of them are related to engineering jobs (like writing reports, presentation, even an English course)
gimpy117
12-12-10, 05:11 PM
well again Darkfish, I'm doing Aviation maintainance, and I had to take a "Music appreciation" class last year. Why? I don't know
DarkFish
12-12-10, 05:19 PM
well again Darkfish, I'm doing Aviation maintainance, and I had to take a "Music appreciation" class last year. Why? I don't knowTo appreciate the beautiful sound of an aircraft engine of course:DL
Jimbuna
12-12-10, 05:21 PM
It is a terrible shame that the police always get the short end of the stick in this, stuck between a rock and a hard place, I dare say more than a couple of them think that Tweedledum and Tweedledummer are doing a great job of annoying an already tense country, but it's their job to keep public order and so they have to protect the idiots that have gotten us into this mess to begin with.
Of that I am confident.
bookworm_020
12-12-10, 05:36 PM
The students are complaining that they have to pay up to 9000 pounds for their courses? Students here would love to see that as their bills. You can also put into perspective, they will be earning more than 9000 more when they finish their course (except for the ones who will end up in the Macdonalds drive thru asking "do you want fries with that?")
Because of the attack on the royals any hope of keeping the public on their side has vanished.
XabbaRus
12-12-10, 05:52 PM
gimpy, If I do an engineering degree then I do engineering classes. We don't have the system where you have to do something like music apprecation as a module of an engineering course, thank *******.
What we have here are the previous techy colleges now become unis offering these strange courses such as media studies that seem very vague.
OK I did Russian studies which some might see as a pointless degree and I haven't had a chance to use it in my current employment though I could have joined various organisations in government or other areas.
The problem is every employer requires some sort of higher qualification or so it seems therefore we have some odd degrees. Gone are the days of good vocational courses and apprentiships. Doesn't help that we don't manufacture much anymore.
I at the moment am studying an HNC in electrical engineering part time and in september next year I want to start the degree course also part time. It's not easy to find that high paying job and I think it is often a false assumption that graduates are going to always earn the big money.
nikimcbee
12-12-10, 06:40 PM
OK I did Russian studies which some might see as a pointless degree and I haven't had a chance to use it in my current employment though I could have joined various organisations in government or other areas.
We need to hook up sometime, so I can buy you a drink (or two). You have the same degree as me, but I added a teaching degree with it:har::har::har::har::har: ...to make it more marketable:haha::wah:.
The problem; foreign languages are a dying subject in US schools (except Spanish:shifty:)
:wah:
I have used my degree, but not recently. One interviewer told me he didn't care what my degree was, but it showed that I'm trainable. So, I'm trapped in the semiconductor industry.:shifty:
I always felt sorry for the guys that go to the tech schools, that pay $32k to learn how to be a wafer fab technician in the semiconductor industry.
the_tyrant
12-12-10, 06:52 PM
We need to hook up sometime, so I can buy you a drink (or two). You have the same degree as me, but I added a teaching degree with it:har::har::har::har::har: ...to make it more marketable:haha::wah:.
The problem; foreign languages are a dying subject in US schools (except Spanish:shifty:)
:wah:
I have used my degree, but not recently. One interviewer told me he didn't care what my degree was, but it showed that I'm trainable. So, I'm trapped in the semiconductor industry.:shifty:
I always felt sorry for the guys that go to the tech schools, that pay $32k to learn how to be a wafer fab technician in the semiconductor industry.
in this current situation, Spanish is not a foreign language in the us:yep:
I want to study astrophysics in university. Its useless in real life though (i am afraid of doing astronomical research the rest of my life)
Jimbuna
12-12-10, 08:02 PM
in this current situation, Spanish is not a foreign language in the us:yep:
I want to study astrophysics in university. Its useless in real life though (i am afraid of doing astronomical research the rest of my life)
Then try cookery....there's always someone that's hungry :O:
Penguin
12-12-10, 08:31 PM
I have heard that the protestors wanted to use Camilla for a cavalry counter-charge.
Jimbuna
12-12-10, 08:46 PM
I have heard that the protestors wanted to use Camilla for a cavalry counter-charge.
She's worthless....simply the concubine of 'the king in waiting' and he'l probably be waiting a long time :yep:
Tribesman
12-13-10, 04:24 AM
I have heard that the protestors wanted to use Camilla for a cavalry counter-charge.
The old mare is well past her best and should just be put out to grass.
Back on topic.
Its nice to see that even after the Met went to the trouble of getting everyone new embroidered ID for their uniforms so they countn't mistakenly "fall off" like the metal numbers they were still having problems with officers "losing" their numbers.
Penguin
12-13-10, 06:25 AM
good thing with the ID tags! Here it's been in discussion for years. The citystate of Berlin finally decided a tag for their coppers last month.
The counter argument that criminals may take revenge on the police when they are tagged is invalid, as you'll get the name anyway when charges are pressed against you.
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