The Hunted: Hitlers Uboat War 1943-1945

[Salvadoreno]

So im just finishing the book after a long hiatus. I got sickened by the amount of deaths the German Uboat Arm took in that time period so i took a break. But i decided i needed to finish it.
Its just unbelieveably sad how doomed the Uboats were from the very beginning, and how little they really effected Britain's ability to wage war. Everytime i read "There were no survivors" a chill runs down my spine. What a terrible death it must of been for those boys (and yes they were definately boys, especially in the later years). Even worse was towards the latter years some Allied boats didnt bother to pick up German survivors of uboats. :nope: No war crimes for them...

Anyway before i start a heated debate about that another reason im upset is the amount of content that is missing from the uboat simulation! Last night so many ideas were running through my head, especially because Sh5 is kind of a "Captains Simulation". Ugh that also upsets me! Patrol lines, Uboat Groups, Uboat breakdowns (and subsequent rendevous with Utankers, returning uboats, etc..), Transmissions from Other uboats (shadowing convoys and of course... Convoy battles!). Back in the base to add immersion there could be a war room/office room (your captains office), and a nightclub to talk to other commanders about wartime experiences and opinions. :down: Well all those ideas and more (no reason to keep chase the dragon here) should have been added.

If things like these were incorporated i believe there might have been a growth in the community. Us loyal subsimmers would have obviously bought the game (which is a pretty large community in itself) and other hardcore sim fans. Along with the curious others who see a well rated game and purchase. Now i believe it will be a long time coming before somebody picks up another subsim, let alone another WWII one. Modders, although amazing, just dont have the capability to incorporate certain aspects that would make a subsim game great.

Well anyway if your curious about the subject Hitlers Uboat War The Hunters and The Hunted are great purchases and GREAT reads. I also picked up night of the uboats (the destruction of konvoi PQ17). Another great book and a horrific look at the experiences of survivors on a sunken merchant ship. Such an interesting period and aspect of our existence!

[Madox58]

"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."
William Tecumseh Sherman
April 11, 1880
Columbus, Ohio

But we never learn.
:nope:

[CCIP]

Blair's books are excellent, but I think it should also be noted that he is sometimes too narrowly focused on undermining the German campaign and any achievements within it - he really is quite obviously biased in that sense. I wish he hadn't taken on that stance and remained more neutral. On the other hand it's a much more scholarly and well-researched accounts than many popular imagings of the war and memoirs (like Das Boot, Iron Coffins etc.).

[deepboat]

The Hunters and The Hunted, both make a great read. I've recently picked up "The U-Boat War" by Lothar-Gunther Buchheim. Name sound familiar? An account of his time aboard U-96 with lots of pictures.

[Dimitrius07]

So im just finishing the book after a long hiatus. I got sickened by the amount of deaths the German Uboat Arm took in that time period so i took a break. But i decided i needed to finish it.
Its just unbelieveably sad how doomed the Uboats were from the very beginning, and how little they really effected Britain's ability to wage war. Everytime i read "There were no survivors" a chill runs down my spine. What a terrible death it must of been for those boys (and yes they were definately boys, especially in the later years). Even worse was towards the latter years some Allied boats didnt bother to pick up German survivors of uboats. :nope: No war crimes for them...



http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd250/kansadobe/troll2.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

Nice self-portrait, Dimitrius.

I disagree with some of Salvadoreno's assessment, but it looks like he's honest in his opinions.

The only troll I see here is you.

[Dimitrius07]

Nice self-portrait, Dimitrius.

I disagree with some of Salvadoreno's assessment, but it looks like he's honest in his opinions.

The only troll I see here is you.

Sing with me

Actions!!!!!! Speaks louder!!!! Then words!!!!!!
Give me bass please :rock::rock::rock:

[Takeda Shingen]

On topic, please.

The Management

[stoppro]

I agree with CCIP. blair has a lot of axes to grind- everything was a-the presidents fault . b the brits fault . the us navy -no fault. He wore me down pretty fast with that crap.

[FIREWALL]

On topic, please.

The Management

:up:

[Dimitrius07]

What a terrible death it must of been for those boys (and yes they were definately boys, especially in the later years). Even worse was towards the latter years some Allied boats didnt bother to pick up German survivors of uboats. :nope: No war crimes for them...



Well some uboat commanders opened fire on civilians, and after that they claim it was target identification mistake. It was all covered up by supreme commander stuff in the end. Your young boys were send to fight by a nationalistic German party despite the great loses. Shame really :cry:. You expect more from "superman's". So no war crimes here, its war. And in War people die :dead:.

[Sailor Steve]

Well some uboat commanders opened fire on civilians, and after that they claim it was target identification mistake. It was all covered up by supreme commander stuff in the end.
Do you have documentation of this? If not it's just accusations.

[Capt Sinbad]

Well some uboat commanders opened fire on civilians, and after that they claim it was target identification mistake. It was all covered up by supreme commander stuff in the end. Your young boys were send to fight by a nationalistic German party despite the great loses. Shame really :cry:. You expect more from "superman's". So no war crimes here, its war. And in War people die :dead:.

Yawn

Can anyone else see the irony?

[d@rk51d3]

Yawn

Can anyone else see the irony?


My thoughts exactly. :haha:

[Dimitrius07]

Do you have documentation of this? If not it's just accusations.

Information taken from Uboat.net Want the details? I can give it to you, when i heal from the brain damage taken by zombies:dead:.
Now before you start drama let me say something. Not all uboat commanders done that things and same goes to the other side. Relax... ok. Play something heavy for me :rock::rock::rock:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

My old man was in the RAF during the war and he said they hated the u-boats (especially in the Caribbean) that they meted out vengeance like no other when they came upon one. I guess one has to experience war to have that kind of emotion.

[Sailor Steve]

Now before you start drama let me say something. Not all uboat commanders done that things and same goes to the other side. Relax... ok. Play something heavy for me :rock::rock::rock:
I was aware of exactly one. A lot of u-boatmen went through hell, and so did a lot of their victims. Mainly that was because of the nature of war, and not war crimes. I feel sorry for all the merchant and naval seamen who died at the hands of the u-boats, but I also feel sorry for the 30,000+ who died horribly at the bottom of the ocean.

As far as cracks about my playing go, at least I'm not afraid to tell people who I really am and what I like to do. You could do the same in the 'Subsim Regulars' forum. :sunny:

[flag4]

im not quite sure what this is about. but, when the men who fought each other meet up 40-50 years after the war, they invariably get on well with each other - some strike up frienships that last for the rest of their lives - but most of all they come to see the folly of what they had been through.

as for uboat men shooting survivors, well, it did happen but at an absolute minority. i can only think of Heinz Eck. maybe there are others, but then the Pot begins to call the Kettle black.

as for Heinz Eck, if this is who SS is revering to, he was executed for his supposed crimes. when i read the details of his case it began to make me angry: the contradictions of both sides, the idea of Operational Neccessities is twisted to suite whoever needs it....

...and in the end with Eck it seemed to suite the British. Dwight R Messimer finishes his essay on Eck with the word Siegerjustiz. it suited the British. they had his cards marked from the begining of the trial...but you will have to read this essay in Silent Hunters. GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDERS OF WORLD WAR II to make your own minds up.

[Bilge_Rat]

Even worse was towards the latter years some Allied boats didnt bother to pick up German survivors of uboats. :nope: No war crimes for them...



Both great books. Only up to early 44 in the 2nd.

Regarding the above quote, you have to remember that it was dangerous for any allied ship to stop to pick up survivors, allied or axis, if there were U-Boats around. Since U-Boats, at least up to 44, often attacked in packs, it was SOP for allied warships to not stop for survivors if other U-boats were suspected to be around.

[EgoApocalypse]

In dark time's there is always light.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/comingup/sinkingofthelaconia/

I hope BBC make a good effort at portraying this event,

But just to reflect.

[flag4]

In dark time's there is always light.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/comingup/sinkingofthelaconia/

I hope BBC make a good effort at portraying this event,

But just to reflect.

Ego, thanks VERY much for this link for U156 - what a lovely surprise:yeah:!!

[Egan]

Blair's books are excellent, but I think it should also be noted that he is sometimes too narrowly focused on undermining the German campaign and any achievements within it - he really is quite obviously biased in that sense. I wish he hadn't taken on that stance and remained more neutral. On the other hand it's a much more scholarly and well-researched accounts than many popular imagings of the war and memoirs (like Das Boot, Iron Coffins etc.).

I think he was sore that a lot of the focus in the post war period went to U-boats rather than the US operations in the pacific that he was a part of. I can understand that to a certain degree, although he fails to take into account that, by the time details of the sub campaign in the PTO became more widely known, U-boats had cemented their place in the public consciousness, the secrecy of the American campaign not having helped matters in that respect.

He fails repeatedly, if I remember rightly (it's been a few years since I last read any of his books,) to grasp that the threat of the German campaign only appears overblown in Hindsight, and that at the time it was considered by the British government to be one the graver threats to the war effort. He also doesn't seem willing to concede that the great successes the U-boats had against Britain in WW1 may have led to a further inflation of the threat in the public consciousness. In fact - again, if I remember right - he pretty much ignores the psychological effect that the German campaign had on the British public.

Thing is, He is actually right in a number of his conclusions but those conclusions are worth a lot less than they would have been if they had been made nearer the time, and, as others have said, it's difficult to concentrate on what he's saying sometimes with the constant sound of all those axes being ground in the background.

As for any debate on war crimes, I'm sure he mentions the infamous Mush Morton incident in 'Silent Victory', although I don't believe, for obvious reasons, it's covered to the same degree O' Kane gives it in 'Wahoo.'

Good books. Exhausting and painfully dry at times, but good never the less.

[Ducimus]

So im just finishing the book after a long hiatus. I got sickened by the amount of deaths the German Uboat Arm took in that time period

War is hell, for all involved, and it is a tragedy when it occurs at all. But I have to admit, I am not sickened by the losses endured by any arm of the 3rd reich, be it on land, air, or sea. The only part that i would say is "sickening" was the decision to keep throwing away lives in a pointless endeavor. That said, I have no hesitation in saying that I am glad the allies won, and beat Nazi Germany soundly. A victorious 3rd reich is an unthinkable alternative.