Sonalysts: new contract, new sim?

[zamfe]

Since Sonalysts obviously won a new contract with the US Navy, could this be also raise also the hopes for a new sim?

http://www.theday.com/article/20101021/BIZ02/310219387/-1/BIZ

[TLAM Strike]

Doubt it, it sounds more like a renewal of the old contract they have had for many years.

[Reaper51]

Agree with TLAM.

But even if Sonalysts do decide to make a new sim, I wouldn't hold my breath. Just look at how half assed DW is. I doubt they'd do any better with a second try.

[Hawk66]

oh, another 'let's hope for a new DW-like sim', which pops up in regular intervals :D

I fear there will be no one, except the Sonalysts-guys do it for non-profit reasons like (to my knowledge, not sure) eSim does do it partly with their Steel Beasts Pro product.

Unfortunately, there seems to be no statement so far if they could adopt that eSim model: Sell it without any publisher, make a tough price (>100$)...but I do not really know if the government requirements and commercial requirements could be aligned to have a similar business model like eSim.

Perhaps Frying Tiger could enlighten us here ;).

[Takeda Shingen]

Agree with TLAM.

But even if Sonalysts do decide to make a new sim, I wouldn't hold my breath. Just look at how half assed DW is. I doubt they'd do any better with a second try.

I think that DW is rather good. If you want half-assed try Silent Hunter 5.

[Molon Labe]

DW 1.04 is pretty good. DW 1.0 was a bad joke.

[Hawk66]

DW 1.04 is pretty good. DW 1.0 was a bad joke.

yes, especially with the two major mods. I also think that the tactical AI with those mods is more then acceptable - only the strategic one has its flaws but you can live with that.

Anyway, it can be doubted that there will any new sim, which provides several subs, a frigate and ASW helo/plane in great detail + editing&modding capabilities + >600 pages of documentation for a initial price under 70$!

[kgsuarez]

DW 1.04 is pretty good. DW 1.0 was a bad joke.

:haha:

I remember reading an article about their new/re-newed contract and I thought the same thing for a few moments before reality set in. I also doubt very highly that they will put out a new sim any time soon, if ever. There is simply no money to be made in such a market.

I have to wonder though, will there ever be new DW replacement?

WWII subsims, such as the Silent Hunter series, are a different genre. So they don't count in this discussion. We're talking about modern subsims here. Let's take a look at some of the most notable titles in the genre and the periods of time between their releases:

1) 688 Attack Sub (1988)

--6 year gap--

2) SSN-21 Seawolf (1994)

--2 year gap--

3) Fast Attack: High Tech Submarine Warfare (1996)

--1 year gap--

4) 688(I) Hunter/Killer (1997)

--4 year gap--

5) Sub Command (2001)

--4 year gap--

6) Dangerous Waters (2005)

--5, almost 6, year gap and counting--

Judging from the list above the average time between releases is just under 4 years. And the longest time between releases is 6 years.

We're almost past the 6 year mark and there's no replacement sim in sight. If history is any indication, things are not looking very good for us.

Is the subsim genre going to fade away completely?

[Takeda Shingen]

WWII subsims, such as the Silent Hunter series, are a different genre. So they don't count in this discussion. We're talking about modern subsims here.

They're not as different as you might think. Submarine simulators, historical or modern, computer or tabletop, all operate on the same basic principles. Sure, the SH series has always been a bit gamier, and the Sonalyst series more simish, but they certainly do count in the discussion, particularly when I have seen countless SH players lament the Ubi machine and wishing that they could convince Sonalysts to do a historical sim.

I guess the moral of the story is to be thankful for what you have. It could always be worse.

[Diopos]

Since Sonalysts obviously won a new contract with the US Navy, could this be also raise also the hopes for a new sim?
...


In fact quite the opposite. A "new" contract means that all assets are diverted to fullfill it. If they'd fail to get a contract then they might 've considered revisiting the sim market (which I doubt!).
.
.

[zamfe]

oh, another 'let's hope for a new DW-like sim', which pops up in regular intervals :D


I'm afraid so, you know hope dies last.


Anyway, it can be doubted that there will any new sim, which provides several subs, a frigate and ASW helo/plane in great detail + editing&modding capabilities + >600 pages of documentation for a initial price under 70$!

Actually a study sim would be better, just one model with higher fidelity.

It's to bad, I always return to DW from time to time.

[FIREWALL]

I always keep seeing the price issue come up.

Imo if, you can't pay.... Don't play. :DL

[Reaper51]

We're almost past the 6 year mark and there's no replacement sim in sight. If history is any indication, things are not looking very good for us.

Is the subsim genre going to fade away completely?I don't think there's much hope of seeing a good naval sim anytime soon. At least not one you have to pay for. Imo, there will probably never be a truly good, high fidelity naval sim. It's just too much work for any company given the size of the naval sim community. This is just one of those markets you have to invest a lot of time and money into, with small odds of getting a good enough return on investment to justify the time spent.

As for DW vs SH; No, they're very different. SH has massive time compression, and it's as real as you want it to be. No matter how you set the realism options it's still fun to play. So it appeals to a much larger crowd than DW. DW is far more technical, every little thing you do has an impact on the scenario. Put simply, SH has enough game elements to be fun, while DW is much more of a high level chess game. As for however buggy SH V is, take a look at the company that makes it.

On another note; http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87 It's coming.. :ping:

[Castout]

Sure, the SH series has always been a bit gamier, and the Sonalyst series more simish,

Not necessarily true to me

Silent Hunter 3 and 4 ( I don't have 5) are more of an experience sim.
It simulates being in command and operating WWII sub in a second world war. Atmosphere is important in this kind of sim hence nice graphics and all.

while

DW is more like a procedural(function or tasking) sim that is the simulation of modern procedures of detecting, classifying, plotting and engaging enemy. It's more of tasking sim than an experience sim. To be frank it's more like a [simplified] training tool than a game.


The other type of sim is a study sim(Falcon 4.0, Blackshark) but to make one for sub sim is ridiculous.

At best the merging of SH3 and DW gameplay and type of sims will give us that dream sub sim game ever.

[FIREWALL]

DW is a sim you can't just jump in and play. It has a stiff learning curve that, isn't most peoples cup of tea.

This was a training tool and after that, was watered down for security reasons and, put out as a sim as an after thought.

Mods have definitely made it better.

[Castout]

Didn't say DW was not a sim.

Watered down . . . . crap we want all :damn: :arrgh!:

[Dr.Sid]

Ir also depends on settings. DW with show truth is pretty much casual game. You get close, select 'launch this and this missile' from menu .. and you watch.
On the other hand, SH series with all set to manual is even more hardcore then DW.

[zamfe]

The other type of sim is a study sim(Falcon 4.0, Blackshark) but to make one for sub sim is ridiculous.


That would be impossible because the examples above are one man platforms. I think the approach sonalysts chose is very good - multiple stations, in mp multiple players per unit, in sp you can choose which stations to command. I would even give DW a brand of it's own and call it a tactical sim. But coming from DW to Blackshark, Falcon, and now A-10C back to DW again, I feel there is a lot of room for fidelity in modern subsims.
A combination of DW with SH's campaign I wouldn't be interested in, because in modern naval warfare you won't go after targets of opportunity as in WW2, you have strict missions, and sparing me the way until the mission point is welcomed.

[Reaper51]

Ir also depends on settings. DW with show truth is pretty much casual game. You get close, select 'launch this and this missile' from menu .. and you watch.
On the other hand, SH series with all set to manual is even more hardcore then DW.

Imo, that removes the fun. DW can't really be played for "fun" in the same sense as SH. As previously stated, SH is more immersive than DW, so even with the targeting set to easy, the game is still an experience. when you dumb things down in DW it gets even duller if you're not really interested in the systems. "Ok, there's an enemy sub. Fire tubes 1&2! Countermeasures? Oh no you don't. *pre-enables torpedo*" Congrats, you just beat the scenario.. No suspense, no atmosphere, just click a few times and you're done.

A long time ago I got bored with SH III and decided to try really risky things. I sailed to Scapa Flow, and infiltrated under the cover of darkness. I sank a tanker trying to leave, two escorts guarding the port, two more tankers docked at the port, and one more escort as I escaped. I was chased down by two destroyers, I timed my aft reload just right and the first destroyer went under. I then evaded the second destroyer's depth charges, in very shallow water. As he passed wide and to my left, I ordered the boat to surface and ran away under diesel power. I was never spotted, and clearly heard the destroyer depth charging the area for quite awhile.

Try that in DW. Serious naval sims are just to serious to appeal to a broad audience. While the SH series continues to draw new fans because stuff like my story is possible, and very achievable to the average player. When your platform is at high risk and things are happening fast you grit your teeth thinking "I can't die, I've spent X amount of hours in this scenario". In SH you can't die because you die. You're the captain of a ship, you've been though months/years of patrols. Sunk countless ships, and brought your virtual crew home safe. You're the lead character in a story that's being written. You watch the fate of your ship and crew unravel with every patrol. DW just doesn't even begin to have that feel. Even when playing campaigns. Also, being at risk in DW is very procedural, while in SH you're glued to the edge of your seat.

Ok, I think I've made my point. I guess I'll stop here before I end up writing a book. :ping:

[Olympus]

The only way to have a new real good naval sim is to build by community.
Already we are some guys with a good budget and want to create a real perfect mod for DW.
Anyone want to participate contact me.