Vote for the hand that slaps you!!!

[Torvald Von Mansee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ap_poll_working_class_whites

Nope. Not a lick of racism (or at least stupidity), here!!!

[Skybird]

While I expect Obama to take a spanking in November, I wonder if this really will mean anything for presidential elections in two years - or if Ahnie Schwozenägga, with whom I seem to agree here, got it right when saying that due to being impotent to present a credible, reasonable candidate themselves, the Republicans will lose again against Obama. I think it is a very big mistake by the right to allow the impression that they could seriously consider Palin et. al to run a presidency. They should let her do damage by vomitting her usual poison, but make it clear in time that she is nothing the Republicans could ever consider to nominate for candidacy. With her they have no chance in the final race.

Schwarzenegger says Obama likely to get re-elected (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,721444,00.html)

[SteamWake]

I dont see the racisim there other than the fact that a single faction of a single race has been splintered off in the poll.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

While I expect Obama to take a spanking in November, I wonder if this really will mean anything for presidential elections in two years - or if Ahnie Schwozenägga, with whom I seem to agree here, got it right when saying that due to being impotent to present a credible, reasonable candidate themselves, the Republicans will lose again against Obama. I think it is a very big mistake by the right to allow the impression that they could seriously consider Palin et. al to run a presidency. They should let her do damage by vomitting her usual poison, but make it clear in time that she is nothing the Republicans could ever consider to nominate for candidacy. With her they have no chance in the final race.

Schwarzenegger says Obama likely to get re-elected (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,721444,00.html)

Well, if it were Palin vs. Obama, you'd think it would be Obama, as he's so clearly more intelligent and educated. Of course, in the United States it's possible to be TOO smart and educated for some people. Frequently, the clearly stupid/uneducated will win in an election. Is there ANY other industrialized country where this sort of thing happens?

[GoldenRivet]

What i see is:

Dems put up Obama for re-election

Reps put up palin

The tea party endorses a candidate who runs on the independent platform

I know who I would vote for. :salute:

[TheSatyr]

Anyone who thinks Obama is more intellegent than Palin really needs to sit back and check the records. Palin was a fairly successful Governor. Obama (and his wife) were both failed attorneys that were both disbarred I believe,and I'm not really sure what Obama ever accomplished besides get elected President. (And to this day I STILL don't understand how a nobody with no real history like Obama could have beaten Hillary Clinton...other than the fact that he was a well spoken black.).

[Skybird]

Of course, in the United States it's possible to be TOO smart and educated for some people.

That is an observation and comment made by many German and European observers about the cabinet of Obama: cold intellectualism is not what Americans feel attracted by. They want to link up emotionally as well (that's why Reagan was so popular, he somewhat mirrors Obama). It is lioke that with many voters in many countries, bvut I think in the US it seems to be extreme due to the differences of the American interpretation of the presdiency. In a way, to Americans the US president always appeared to be a surrogate for the monarch they once rejected - and emotionally regret that they did until today.

Frequently, the clearly stupid/uneducated will win in an election. Is there ANY other industrialized country where this sort of thing happens? Yes - in all of the Western ones. But most people just act more cleverly in hiding their intellectual deficits or underhanded intentions. America only is probably a bit more extreme again.

[Platapus]

Remember, two things have to occur for Obama not to be re-elected

1. The citizens need to be dissatisfied with Obama

2. The citizens need to be offered another candidate that offers a significant improvement (in their perception) over Obama.

Both of these has to occur. Remember 2004?

Number one may already be with us, but without a good number two (snicker), the GOP does not stand a chance.

If the GOP runs on the platform "I am not Obama" they will join Kerry in the long list of candidates unable to unseat the incumbent.

In political elections, the tie often goes to the incumbent.

[GoldenRivet]

so you are admitting that Obama's only hope is the lack of a suitable contender on the opposing side?

[Takeda Shingen]

There's no way that Team R puts up Palin. The stings of having her on a national ticket are in no way lost or forgotten by the party leadership. They'll pick a different sacrificial lamb for 2012 and continue to regroup for 2016.

[Platapus]

so you are admitting that Obama's only hope is the lack of a suitable contender on the opposing side?

Not at all. Only pointing out a famous axiom of political analysis.

[Platapus]

There's no way that Team R puts up Palin. The stings of having her on a national ticket are in no way lost or forgotten by the party leadership. They'll pick a different sacrificial lamb for 2012 and continue to regroup for 2016.

I think this is what they will do.

What serious GOP candidate is going to risk their run for POTUS by going up against the incumbent? The odds are already stacked against you. We are probably going to get a "B" level candidate and the GOP will save their "A" candidate (if they even have one) for '16.

[August]

There's no way that Team R puts up Palin. The stings of having her on a national ticket are in no way lost or forgotten by the party leadership. They'll pick a different sacrificial lamb for 2012 and continue to regroup for 2016.


I think Pailin is playing the same part as Hillary did in the 08 elections. Her job is to draw Dem fire. Just like the right did in the last two years of the Bush presidency, the left will spend the next two years preparing to defeat Palin only to see a relatively unknown emerge at the last moment.

[nikimcbee]

While I expect Obama to take a spanking in November,
What does Paul the oracle octopus say?

[SteamWake]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Palin is not going to run for President. But you libs keep looking that way, that is the intention.

[frau kaleun]

Obama (and his wife) were both failed attorneys that were both disbarred I believe

Disbarment and/or disciplinary action are a matter of public record... if only there were some quick and easy way to look these things up! :hmmm:

OH WAIT THERE IS. :doh:

The Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois, which maintains records of such things for Illinois attorneys, and provides the public with a convenient "search by name" function (http://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp) for looking up those records, shows that both Obamas are "voluntarily inactive" - which means only that they have let their licenses to practice lapse. This is not uncommon when an individual in a licensed profession no longer sees the point in paying the fees to maintain an active license, because he/she is no longer doing the kind of work that requires one (due to retirement, career change, or a myriad of other reasons).

When it comes to "Public Record of Discipline and Pending Proceedings" taken against either Obama, the answer is "None" in both cases.

[antikristuseke]

But Frau Kaleun, these are facts, they have no place in civilized discussion of politics. Now repeat after me: "Shut up when you are talking to me."

[frau kaleun]

But Frau Kaleun, these are facts, they have no place in civilized discussion of politics. Now repeat after me: "Shut up when you are talking to me."

Fine. See if I send you a sammich then. :hmph:

As long as we're not muddying the water with facts, perhaps we should discuss your love of goats* and disturbing tendency to do security work sans pants. :O:



*Which reminds me, anybody seen Vendor around? I'm actually starting to miss him.**



**:hmm2: :DL

[krashkart]

*Which reminds me, anybody seen Vendor around? I'm actually starting to miss him.**



**:hmm2: :DL

Where Art Thou?

:hmmm:

[SteamWake]

Disbarment and/or disciplinary action are a matter of public record... if only there were some quick and easy way to look these things up! :hmmm:

OH WAIT THERE IS. :doh:

The Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois, which maintains records of such things for Illinois attorneys, and provides the public with a convenient "search by name" function (http://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp) for looking up those records, shows that both Obamas are "voluntarily inactive" - which means only that they have let their licenses to practice lapse. This is not uncommon when an individual in a licensed profession no longer sees the point in paying the fees to maintain an active license, because he/she is no longer doing the kind of work that requires one (due to retirement, career change, or a myriad of other reasons).

When it comes to "Public Record of Discipline and Pending Proceedings" taken against either Obama, the answer is "None" in both cases.

Doesent change the fact that they are or were attournys. As far as I can tell that never practiced law and spent the vast majority of their time in 'community orginizer' positions.

[antikristuseke]

Fine. See if I send you a sammich then. :hmph:

As long as we're not muddying the water with facts, perhaps we should discuss your love of goats* and disturbing tendency to do security work sans pants. :O:


But I needs me a sammich to be a strong lad, besides the university girls like me sans pants. But I am still wearing trousers.:O:

[frau kaleun]

Doesent change the fact that they are or were attournys. As far as I can tell that never practiced law and spent the vast majority of their time in 'community orginizer' positions.

Please reread my post, which you quoted - it has nothing to do with whether or not they are or ever were practicing attorneys.

It has to do with someone stating a "belief" that they were no longer practicing attorneyrs because they'd been disbarred. According to the agency that oversees registration and discipline of attorneys in Illinois, there is no record of any disciplinary action against either of them, much less disbarment.

[gimpy117]

Thats the sad thing. Republicans aren't really the party for the working man. Their policies often favor the rich. Under their control the Middle class has shrunk, probably not to return for some time. Its sad to see that the Republicans have been able the sell their lies yet another political cycle.

I sincerely believe, that even though times are not perfect now, If we elect these dingbats for another 4 years it will be bush 2.0 and we will really be screwed.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-23-2010/postcards-from-the-pledge

[August]

Thats the sad thing. Republicans aren't really the party for the working man. Their policies often favor the rich. Under their control the Middle class has shrunk, probably not to return for some time. Its sad to see that the Republicans have been able the sell their lies yet another political cycle.

I would counter that by saying that under the Democrats the middle class was artificially and unsustainably inflated. A factory worker, even a union factory worker, was never supposed to be a middle class job. Paying them middle class wages especially in todays global economy has just caused their jobs and a whole lot more to move overseas which is the true reason for this apparent shrinkage of the middle class.

[antikristuseke]

:sign_yeah:
yep, unreasonable wage expectations are a large part why it is cheaper to produce outside of the states, but then again allmost everyone wants more all the time and when it comes time to make concessions to keep what little you have allmost no one has the foresight to be willing to do it. But blaming it on either the democratic party or the republican party is bull****, their blame is equal. The only real difference between the two parties is their rethoric.

[mookiemookie]

I would counter that by saying that under the Democrats the middle class was artificially and unsustainably inflated. A factory worker, even a union factory worker, was never supposed to be a middle class job. Paying them middle class wages especially in todays global economy has just caused their jobs and a whole lot more to move overseas which is the true reason for this apparent shrinkage of the middle class.

Good point. I've had one too many glasses of wine to try and nitpick it apart, but I can certainly respect that line of thinking.

Unions serve a purpose. But unchecked, they can be as detrimental as they are useful.

[August]

Unions serve a purpose. But unchecked, they can be as detrimental as they are useful.

Very true. My main problem is they tend to promote a class division between management and labor. Such institutionalized acrimony is not good for the long term health of any company.

The other side of the coin though is that managements financial success needs to be better tied to the long term success of their company. After all pay someone a few million bucks and what does he care if his leadership causes the company to go under in a few years? He's already made his money.

[Moeceefus]

Ah unions, good ole legalized extortion. Unions kill companies. I worked for DHL for a while until the union killed them in the states. I hear they do well in Europe at least. Workers rights should be law. I shouldn't have to pay half my paycheck to the mob to get justice on the job.

[gimpy117]

It depends on the union. my union would just about give the owners a foot massage to keep them happy. Our economy was booming when the auto workers were paid good wages. Its what built Michigan. If you've lived here, then you know what the collapse of the middle class has done to places like this.