We already have a super mod

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Guys, It's been enough time since release and enough effort was made into developing mods to start taking it seriously.

Many people want a super mod like a GWX (I will only refer to SH3 as I never played SH4). We already have it, it's still in too many pieces though.

We have two large and excellent interface mods:

[REL] Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) by TheDarkWraith
Pros:

excellent clean SH5 like interface
very configurable with lots of these simple small options/choices that let everybody pick their UI style,
working TDC,
fixes many flawed issues,
brilliantly implements and develops SH5 scripting possibilities,
incorporates many mods by others that add a lot of good functionalities.

Cons:

no doubt it's too clean for some of us,
no attack disc,
no Tri-Ring compass,
not much eyecandy,
far from perfect graphic solutions/quality when there's something added (RAOBF, TDC)
intolerable clock graphics :damn:

[REL] HiDef Realistic Interface V2.0 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=173147) by reaper7
Pros:

rich, detailed, pleasant, beautiful interface additions,
generally a lot of high quality eyecandy,
has Tri-Ring compass,
has attack disc,
has a good looking working TDC,
a perfect choice for those who look for weathered interface,

Cons:

not much besides UI in it,
no doubt it's too colorfull for some (like me),



Each of these 2 mods is great. None of them has all one could need when it comes to interface. They PERFECTLY supplement each other, but they are not compatible...

So authors - sit down together and work on merging them into one mod that will have it all:

excellent clean SH5 like interface
a perfect choice for those who look for weathered interface,
rich, detailed, pleasant, beautiful interface additions,
very configurable with lots of these simple small options/choices that let everybody pick their UI style,
good looking working TDC,
Tri-Ring compass,
attack disc,
fixes many flawed issues,
brilliantly implements and develops SH5 scripting possibilities,
incorporates many mods by others that add a lot of good functionalities.
generally a lot of high quality eyecandy.


The result mod would be neither TDW's nor reapers... but that's how it is when you work on a Super Mod as a TEAM. :)

And as we talk about a team, there are many other mods (and their authors behind them) that should be added to the work/team - I will not analyze their mods as it should be quite obvious why they perfectly fit to be incorporated into a Super Mod:


[REL] Environmental MOD for Silent Hunter 5, W_clear
[REL] SteelViking's Interior Mod, SteelViking and his various other mods,
various Venatore's mods,
[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI), TheDarkWraith
[REL] Voice Recognition for SH5, skwasjer
numerous available audio mods,
numerous available graphics additions mods,
[REL] More realistic periscope, Arclight
keyboard shortcuts mod,
player scripts,
many, many, many others,


Well, it's all there, the work was done. Now we need a TEAM to polish it and release it all in one piece. That will already be a SUPER mod. It will still ack a few things GWX had, like new vessels models or numerous role playing immersive features... but these won't ever come if you don't start working on... HWX or VWX now. :)


Many stated here "I'll buy Sh5 when a super mod arises". Make them come.


So... reaper, TDW... will you try to start cooperating at first and working as a team in the future? Dead serious.

[ddrgn]

With the excellent work these guys have put out its amazing they haven't taken a break, let alone compile a super mod.

[Schultzy]

I have to echo ddrgn's comments. Let them do the work they want, to improve the game for us.

Vigorous requesting usually has the opposite effect to the one intended.

[longam]

With JSGME its not that hard to make your game the way you want. There is always something in a super mod I don't need or want and have to tweak it out.

[raymond6751]

It always amazes me how much work the modders put in. They should be allowed to enjoy the game too.

How can they get time to just play?

I agree that a super mod would be nice but is often too fixed or restrictive. If one is made, it should have many optional parts.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

The replies we have in this thread so far simply amaze me. I thought it's a consensus that GWX was the best thing that ever happened to SH3, and this is why we're convinced we also want sch a Super Mod for SH5. Now I see not all of you share that view.

I simply disagree with you. Managing 40 or more mods is in no way easy, even if you update them and check the forums regularly - checking the number of compatibility issues questions is enough proof for that. Surely there are these few, the end-user-elite, who will always prefer to hand pick every little change in their game, thus composing their ideal SH5... but no Super Mod will take this ability away from you. Most players, as seen in many threads, await a Super Mod or even depend buying the game on it. That group includes me.

I would rather expect the mod authors to oppose making a team, for many various reasons - like losing independence in one's work or having to share the results with others or time constraints or personal issues with other modders or whatever else - but not from the community.

As to me - I'm all for a Super Mod. I want to have features from many excellent mods that now exist but are not compatible. I know my game experience will be better. I know I'll have more people on this forum to talk with if we have Super Mod. I know many new skilled modders will come to SH5 as soon as a Super Mod is announced to be developed. We can only gain from it, not lose.

[Jimbuna]

In response to your references to GWX....

There were previous Grey Wolves supermods leading up to GWX3.0 and that was only possible because Ubisoft announced they would be releasing no further patches/updates for SH3.

What those who would consider getting to work on a supermod are obviously having to consider is the fact that SHV is still in its relative infancy and whilst it is now public knowledge that Ubisoft are not currently working on any further patches atm it is possible that this position might well change sometime in the future.

Commencing work on a supermod prior to any official announcement is IMHO risky at best because any future patches could well break said supermod.

Personally speaking....I'm content with adding the current offering of smaller mods individually until the game is a little older or an official announcement is forthcoming.

[mookiemookie]

From what I've seen, our talented modders don't take well to someone issuing them marching orders.

[Madox58]

There's nothing stable enuff to build a SuperMod with.
Each week sees a new release of nearly every mod out there now!
So you do a SuperMod of those and then what?
Release an update every week?
No Thank you!

[skwasjer]

The state of SH5 is by far ideal to make a supermod. People are hacking their way around quircks, bugs, new features are thrown in (unthoughtfully sometimes). Idea's need to develop, improved, sometimes even written from scratch based on new knowledge/foundation and only then, in the long run is it time for a big mod that integrates all of it.

Personally, I rather have no supermod at all. I rather have some minor mods that fix key issues than big packages with a bunch of stuff I don't really need and makes my machine crawl.

[Madox58]

Uhhh,
:hmmm:

Do you mean not ideal?
Your first sentence throws me when reading the rest of your post.

[skwasjer]

Obviously :haha:

'far from ideal' i guess is better?

[Madox58]

:har:
Yes.
Much clearer.
:yeah:

[THE_MASK]

Here is my supermod the way i like it . It is evolving all the time .
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.5.0.150
[C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]
Accurate German Flags
Loading Screens Mod 2.0
RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith
SD_MapCourseLine_tiny_arrows_ocred
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
No magic skills v1.5
Environment 3.4MOD
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
Capthelms SH5 Audio Mod
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
North Atlantic Green 1.1
sobers 100% underwater FX
sobers hyrophone fix
sobers multi color mod
German U-Boat Internal Routine SFX
new_KM_binos
No Ship Wakes 1.2
sobers no footstep sound mod
sobers silent hud
sobers talking conning crew mod
Speech fixes and additions (english version)
FX_Update_0_0_1_ByTheDarkWraith
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
NewUIs_TDC_4_1_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_4_1_0_Waypoint_Contacts_Same_Shape_No_C olor
NewUIs_TDC_4_1_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_naights
MRP 1.3
Krauters Automated Scripts
IRAI_0_0_23_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_23_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting

[TheBeast]

I don't think producing a super mod would be very productive at this time. As others have stated in previous replies, Silent Hunter V is still very young and UbiSoft may decide to fix some of the problems they gave us or complete some of the many unfinished items. At the same time, I do think a modding team should start forming up so they can start Merging MOD's together that touch the same files keeping everything modular for now. A team that's focus is to prepare all the MOD's for a Super MOD. There are several really good MOD's currently available that change the same files, so you can only use one of these MOD's at any one time. Why not combine these MOD's so gamers can experience the benefit of all of them at the same time.
One of the biggest tasks that still needs to be addressed is the Campaign. Until we are easily able to import new Aircraft, Ships(Merchant,War) and Sub Models into Silent Hunter 5, I am not sure anyone wants to start this task as it would have to be redone once new models are imported into the game. Problems like Iceberg's not having damage models enabling players to drive right through them also still need to be fixed. Personally, I want to see Environmental such as Iceberg's, Dolphins, Sharks, Whales etc. in the game. If I hear ambient Ice Cracking, Whale Song, or Dolphin's talking in the control room, I want to possibly see them when I surface.

[SteelViking]

I am really torn on this issue. On the one hand, I know that the current situation is hampering progress to some degree. Because, it is difficult to work on a new mod without stepping on someone else's toes(having JSGME conflicts). But, to be honest, it is very early in the modding life of SH5.

And, it is difficult to force the issue of forming a team of modders/putting together a super mod. As many know, I am working on updates for a few of my mods right now alone. Let alone all the other modders who are working on updates for their respective mods. And, as privateer has pointed out, how do you put everyone's work together, when everyone's work keeps changing.

However, I would love to see more cooperation. People really need to start working together just to make sure that major mods stay compatible. I strive for compatibility with other mods that share files with mine, but it is a lot of work to do so.

A good example of this cooperation would be my Underwater mod, and TDW's exhaust mod. We worked together and Viola, combined our work so that nobody has to worry about compatibility between our mods. I just wish that all modders would take a lesson from this example........

[Madox58]

Sooner or later?
Things will fall into place as far as makeing mods compatable with each other on a standard basis.
It's far to early for that at this time because the more we mod and learn?
The more tweaks that need done.
That falls into the 'every other day, new version', release problem for now.

Everyone must uninstall and reinstall stuff.
PITA!
I'm glad in a way that I can't suffer through that crap.
:haha:
Minor updates to mods would be easier if patch files were released
with the proper install routines written.
Downloads would be smaller, and applying would be much easier for
people.
Why download a 100 meg update if only 3 megs was modded?
:hmmm:

[supposedtobeworking]

Wow .. Sober's mod list is incredible, though I'm sure he's not the only one who has a mod list like that. I wonder how much work it took to make all of those mods work together without conflicts....? I've always thought it would be cool if individuals released their own supermods (for example, if Sober released a compilation of all those mods as one package) which people can just plug into their JSGME and try out without having to go through all of the troubleshooting to get them all to work together. Maybe this is something people could do for now if they wanted to satisfy those who want a super mod?? Otherwise, I agree with some others that the game is still too young for a super mod on the scale of GWX...will take much time and no further patching.

[Krauter]

Just a few problems that I see with having a Super Mod for Sh5 at this time:

1- It's less then a year into its release (someone correct me if I'm wrong..) and still needs a lot of small tweaks and fixes by simple mods (and patches if Ubisoft gets to it again). Now, as privateer mentioned, all of the mods are changing weekly, if not daily (remember TDW's UI Mod when I checked back everyday and there was a new version, or IRAI, etc). Give the game more time to become stable and playable.

2- All the aesthetics have been touched, yet we still haven't cracked the game open to look at the vitals (like campaign, AI [to an extent] mission objectives, etc). Thus, you may make a 'Pretty' Supermod, but you're not going to make one that radically changes the game.

3- I see a lot of conflicts that will hamper the development of a super mod.. among them are

- [REL] Environmental MOD for Silent Hunter 5, W_clear: After a lot of testing and reports, it seems that the latest versions are unstable again. CTDs common around areas like the straights, Bay of Biscay, Skaagerak, etc

- [REL] SteelViking's Interior Mod, SteelViking and his various other mods,
various Venatore's mods: No complaints here, SV and Venatore's mods are A grade

- [REL] Voice Recognition for SH5, skwasjer: Don't use voice recognition myself, but again issues have been reported with it.

- numerous available audio mods: lots of conflicts between different mods that'd need to be ironed out.
numerous available graphics additions mods,
- [REL] More realistic periscope, Arclight: No complaint; one point to note is that you need an aspect fix for your monitor to use the targeting reticules properly

keyboard shortcuts mod: No problems save for conflicts between the UIs mod, different people have different preferences.

player scripts: Haven't tested yet (save mine, which is on hiatus until I get back to a computer capable of running SH5).

many, many, many others: Elaborate? Again it will all be (just a guess..) A: Visual B: Acoustic C: UI

Again, all of the above mentioned mods; though spectacular though they may be (and please note, I am in no way bashing ANY of the work done by the modders be it small, medium, large or humungous pieces of work), are not spectacularly game changing, nor do they alter the game in any radical way.

The only exception of this, that I have found is:

- [WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI), TheDarkWraith: The job of tweaking AI, along with the fact that all the hardcoded issues need to have scripted workarounds, means that it is never finished. New problems will crop up unexpectedly warranting a new release of fix.

As well as Nisgeis' and ddrgn's AI and Elite campaign mods. (Though I consider IRAI to be more realistic and difficult so to me, though the works of those two authors in the field of AI are wonderful, cannot be considered for a supermod as IRAI covers their aspects already [save for elite campaign mod])

4- Again, the game is only in its infancy and things are being discovered and are evolving so rapidly a megamod would be obsolete weeks perhaps even days after it is released. This is not even taking into account a patch (if it ever occurs).

Please note however, I am in no way against a supermod for SH5, and indeed I do believe that SH5 will one day get to the point of GWX+SH3 (But for the love of all that is holy please omit the word wolf in the title..). But please know that these are but SOME of the obstacles that stand between SH5 and a supermod.

Edit: Also, note that TDW are (from what i've seen) in no way uncooperative of the other. On the contrary, a lot of the material TDW comes up with has some of the work of reaper incorporated and vice versa with some of reapers work. (Just thought I'd throw that tid bit in there..we are all a community here.)

Also, to supposedtobeworking, check out the Mods List/Order thread and arrange them in the order of some of the posters there and see how it works for you. Read through the thread and you'll see some interesting things.

Cheers!

Krauter

[Ducimus]

In response to your references to GWX....

There were previous Grey Wolves supermods leading up to GWX3.0
.

And a whole lot of what SH5 is doing right now. People forget this, or what SH3 was like before all the supermods. I can remember...

- Before GWX 2 and 3 in their various incarnations, there was GWX 1.03. (ask me how i know that specific version number. :O: )

- Before that, there was simply TGW. (The Grey Wolves, before the eXpansion was added)

- TGW, was, from what i remember, little more then an embellished "unified campaign" with some spiffy graphics, menu.ini updates, and some not so good AI tweaks.

- Unified campaign, by ehh.. rubini. i think can trace its root origins to his Harbor Traffic mod. Although UC was some community effort to get, as the name implies, a unified campaign. There was some community politics involved here but the details are fuzzy to me now.

- Harbor traffic mod was the first attempt to combine various elements that effected the campaign. Mostly traffic, a couple plane tweaks.

- Before or at the same time was "Improved convoys", and "improved air power". By Jace11 if memory serves.

- and somewhere at the start of it all, (at least for me) was some lousy thread trying to figure out why destroys were dropping depth charges with pin point accuracy, or something like that.

Trace it all back, and SH5 is doing the exact same thing. People need to realize that SH5 is not going to START with a supermod, you end up with one, and it's a long slog to get there.


As for creating a supermod now, yeah all the elements are in place, but there are a lot of factors involved. In reality, what is needed right now is one or two people who are intimate with the games file structure, and are willing to sacrifice ALL of their free time for several months. It's like a 2nd unpaid job combined with a lot of forum politicking for permissions and what not. Royal PITA. Have fun!

[Krauter]

Well said Ducimus!

I think the game and the community just need to wait and mature together. For example, we cant even import units! (pending privateers work..)

[KarlKoch]

- [REL] Voice Recognition for SH5, skwasjer: Don't use voice recognition myself, but again issues have been reported with it.
Krauter

Can you point me to that reported issues, please? I may have missed them.

[Krauter]

I had just heard that the voice recognition was having problems either picking up the orders (ie: Order crashdive and it doesnt work) or confuses the order.

That being said, in my opinion, a voice recognition Mod should not be in a mega mod (though it should be supported) because not all have the means, nor do not all of the community want to use voice recognition.

[KarlKoch]

I had just heard that the voice recognition was having problems either picking up the orders (ie: Order crashdive and it doesnt work) or confuses the order.

That being said, in my opinion, a voice recognition Mod should not be in a mega mod (though it should be supported) because not all have the means, nor do not all of the community want to use voice recognition.

But since its optional if you use it or not, it won't hurt anyone to have. And since i work with the voice recognition, i can say that with the correct settings, nearly 100% of orders are received and executed correctly.