Question: How do you nail a zig zagger ?

[Blacklight]

Okay. I've been playing SHIII for years now and one technique has always eluded me. What's the proper technique for nailing one of those pesky zig-zagging targets. I've only succeeded in pegging them when they're going in straight lines.

[frau kaleun]

I think I've only had any luck doing this by getting very close (submerged) and using a magnetic fuse on an eel set to run at maximum speed. And then I try to be coming in perpendicular to the ship's general course, i.e. the more or less straight line across which she is zigging and zagging. And then I try to fire when she's starting to make a 'zig' towards me rather than in the other direction.

I don't know if that's the "proper" way to do it, but I seem to remember it working. Could've just been luck.

What I prefer to do if I can is just submerge, lower my scope, and continue to run parallel to her general course, staying as far ahead of her as I can while keeping within easy range of setting up a good shot once she stops zigzagging. Which they usually seem to do eventually.

Of course if the ship is fast enough that I can't stay with her submerged, I'll work my way out of good visual range and then resurface and try to run parallel to her general course and overtake her again without getting close enough to be spotted, and then move in for the kill again (submerged if necessary).

[smilinicon]

I wait until they stop zigging. Fight the fight on your terms, not theirs.

[frau kaleun]

I wait until they stop zigging. Fight the fight on your terms, not theirs.

Yeah, definitely my preference. And they do seem to stop zigzagging and go back on a straight course if you stay submerged long enough.

It just depends on whether or not I think I'll get the chance to wait that long, given the location and the other ship's speed. If it looks like I'd have to get out of visual range and get ahead of her again on the surface, and this means getting myself deep into the range of Allied air cover or closer to a heavily patrolled area than I'd like... eh, I'd just as soon take my chances with a magnetic fuse and a fast eel at really close range.

[Jimbuna]

You could try to establish they're mean course and make a judgement/prediction on the change points occuring ie zigging and zagging.

One tip.....if at all possible, set for magnetic because of the acute AOB involved if you are slightly out on your guesstimate.

[bookworm_020]

Also aiming towards the stern helps, if they make a sudden change you still have a better chance of a hit.

[desirableroasted]

A magnetic at short range from the front is my way... works pretty well.

Or, since they zig-zag rhythmically, mark your chart whenever they are parallel to their true course and figure out the frequency... then go up the path a little and wait for a 90 AOB impact shot. Even if they see you sitting there (not advised with armed merchants!), they won't deviate from their zig-zag. Get close in (400-700m), use a fast torp, and even if your eyeballing is a little off, it won't matter.

If they are zig-zagging, you can just assume they have radioed for help. So there's little to be gained from being stealthy and careful, and much time to be gained from just whanging them one.

[sharkbit]

As jimbuna pointed out, even when zigging, they stay on their mean course. If you are in front of them, you can still set up a normal approach and get ahead and perpendicular to their course(ideally).
The only difference now is their speed over their mean course is slower, so you need to set target speed a knot or two slower(maybe more-I've never really tracked it) to compensate.
Like others have said, set your eels for a under keel magnetic shot. Probably a key point against a zigging target.

I hate shooting at zigging targets as well and have not really tried out the above technique, so I may be blowing smoke out my butt. :sunny:

Usually the target is zigging because I missed already or he spotted me and I'm out of position to try again. Then, I usually end around again and get into position. By then the target has stopped zigging.

In desperation, I have tried a "Up the Kilt" shot with a AOB of 180 with mixed results. Usually ends up wasting too many eels though. Patience is key, grasshopper(like so many other aspects of the hunt).

:)

[Alpha Von Burg]

If you had an acoustic homming torpedo, this shouldn't be a problem :D.

I'm just saying...

[timmy41]

math!

[Hans Uberman]

math!
The German language is full of enough insults to take down any vessel at range. No need for your mystical mathematics here, sir. :06:

[derrinurban]

I usually use impacts at close range. I set up from the TDC screen rather than the peri. Seems like cheating a bit tho. I lock on and just look at the run time to target and angle of torpedo impact. If you are a ways ahead of the target and perpendicular to his original course, you can judge the time it takes for him to make the course changes and how far off the centerline he is straying.

Then i try to judge when I would be getting close to a 90 deg impact after the run time. This is based on which way he is zig-zagging, it can be either side of 0 deg. Quickly switch to periscope, adjust for sweet spot and fire.

After a couple of times it gets pretty easy and reliable.

[Jimbuna]

If you had an acoustic homming torpedo, this shouldn't be a problem :D.

I'm just saying...

Then you usually need a target travelling at 12 knots or faster...not many merchantmen achieve that ingame.

[desirableroasted]

Then you usually need a target travelling at 12 knots or faster...not many merchantmen achieve that ingame.

Not that I am unhappy that a shot-at-and-missed ammunition ship placidly continues to steam at 6 knts, albeit with some zig-zagging, to give me another chance, but does anyone know why the AI ships were not coded to go to full throttle, put the helm over hard, and make life difficult for Bernard-burdened captains?

[frau kaleun]

Not that I am unhappy that a shot-at-and-missed ammunition ship placidly continues to steam at 6 knts, albeit with some zig-zagging, to give me another chance, but does anyone know why the AI ships were not coded to go to full throttle, put the helm over hard, and make life difficult for Bernard-burdened captains?

:hmmm:

I would assume that adopting a zigzagging course at any speed was considered safer than just doing a hard turn and taking off in another straight line in some other direction. I mean, if an eel's in the water and they see it coming, hard over to avoid if possible... but I'm thinking the zigzagging was meant to make it that much harder for a uboat to set up a really good shot in the first place and thus increase the likelihood of the calculations being off if they tried it.

[sergei]

I know this is going to sound a bit picky, but what you are observing an alerted target doing is actually constant helming, rather than zig-zagging.
Zig zagging is something entirely different.

Fire at 90 degrees to his base course.
Magnetic triggers in case you get a glancing blow.
I'll use a target speed of two thirds (round up) of what it was before evasive procedures began, and I hit them more often than not.

[desirableroasted]

:hmmm:

I would assume that adopting a zigzagging course at any speed was considered safer than just doing a hard turn and taking off in another straight line in some other direction. I mean, if an eel's in the water and they see it coming, hard over to avoid if possible... but I'm thinking the zigzagging was meant to make it that much harder for a uboat to set up a really good shot in the first place and thus increase the likelihood of the calculations being off if they tried it.

Agreed. And as this thread shows, the zig-zagging (or helming, which is right), makes life harder.

But imagine yourself on the bridge of that merchant. Are you going to simply start weaving on the same course at the same speed? Or are you going to punch that ship to 12-15 knots and heel to port, starboard unpredictably?

[frau kaleun]

Agreed. And as this thread shows, the zig-zagging (or helming, which is right), makes life harder.

But imagine yourself on the bridge of that merchant. Are you going to simply start weaving on the same course at the same speed? Or are you going to punch that ship to 12-15 knots and heel to port, starboard unpredictably?

I dunno. Did they do that in real life? I haven't a clue.

Maybe that kind of randomness in their reaction is something that can't be programmed into the game. :hmmm:

[desirableroasted]

I dunno. Did they do that in real life? I haven't a clue.

Maybe that kind of randomness in their reaction is something that can't be programmed into the game. :hmmm:

When a plane or V&W class spots me, I hit the throttles. go deep, randomly zig/zag. Only because I have the third dimension of depth can I afford to go to 2knts when deep.

But if I were restricted to surface, I would have those engines cranked and even I wouldn't be able to predict my next turn.

Wouldn't you?

Pretty sure it wasn't programmed.

[U777]

This patrol was interesting, found two freighter sailing together and sunk one with my 2nd to last torpedo. Since the last one had to count I tried to do a point blank shot but the ship was armed and I had to dive. Due to storm currents I could only max out at 7 knots while the freighter was doing 8. No good. Surfaced and sailed away at an angle till we were side by side, hung a 90 degree turn and almost hit her with the last torpedo. Had to return to Lorient after that.

[Jimbuna]

Not that I am unhappy that a shot-at-and-missed ammunition ship placidly continues to steam at 6 knts, albeit with some zig-zagging, to give me another chance, but does anyone know why the AI ships were not coded to go to full throttle, put the helm over hard, and make life difficult for Bernard-burdened captains?

These were hard coded constraints placed upon us by the game engine.