Oil and fire

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I'm hoping that someone would do a mod to simulate oil fires when tankers go down.:)

[SteelViking]

I have seen the animations for this stuff in either BAZA_FX.dat or maybe Particles.dat, but it looks like they do not have a material assigned to them, so you would never see them in game. It may be simple to get them to work. I will take a look, but I can't promise anything as it may go way deeper than that.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Cool. Thanks

[SteelViking]

Yep, the animation in question is in particles.dat. It is even called "burning oil slick". I think I may have found part of the problem, the image for oil that is referenced in the file is just a blank bit map. However I cannot find any reason why there should not be fire on the water for a good couple of seconds after a ship sinks. I don't actually play enough to know if it does or does not in game.

Can someone confirm whether or not fire lingers on the surface after a ship sinks?

[BowfinSS287]

no it does not.....sometimes alittle smoke

[SteelViking]

no it does not.....sometimes alittle smoke

Thanks for the info. But, now I am a bit confused as it seems like the fire should be working. I looked around, and I cannot find any texture for oil of any kind. We might be able to make one from scratch, and match the file name for it up with the referenced name in particles.dat. Or, maybe a texture with a really odd name is floating around somewhere.

@privateer, if you drop by this thread, could you shed some light on what might be going on? If it is just a missing texture, I could probably throw one together for it, but I would need to know where to put it, and what the file name needs to be in order for it to actually show up.

[TheDarkWraith]

If it follows the rules as they did in SH3/4 all materials (textures) referenced in particles.dat can be found in materials.dat

[SteelViking]

If it follows the rules as they did in SH3/4 all materials (textures) referenced in particles.dat can be found in materials.dat

That was my first instinct, but they are not there.:06:

[Trevally.]

@SteelViking

I saw a burning oil slick after a sinking last night.

[SteelViking]

@SteelViking

I saw a burning oil slick after a sinking last night.

Really!? Could you describe in detail what it looked like? How long did it last?

[Trevally.]

It was from a slow sinking ship. I did not take a close but i remember it because I was checking up on an escaping ship that had 2 hits. From a distance I thought it was still the ship escaping. As I got closer I realised that the ship had sunk and the flame/smoke was from the sea.

It was a small area on fire with black smoke. About 1/5 of the area that the ship took up. I did not notice any oil, but then i dint look too close. Sorry

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I've never seen an oil fire so far.

[SteelViking]

It was from a slow sinking ship. I did not take a close but i remember it because I was checking up on an escaping ship that had 2 hits. From a distance I thought it was still the ship escaping. As I got closer I realised that the ship had sunk and the flame/smoke was from the sea.

It was a small area on fire with black smoke. About 1/5 of the area that the ship took up. I did not notice any oil, but then i dint look too close. Sorry

Thanks for the explanation, you looked close enough:up: This is exactly what the .dat files show should happen. You should get fire and smoke on the surface for several seconds(maybe up to about a minute), but there should be no oil because the image for it is missing. So, I am much less confused now. One more detail that would help is: was the ship a tanker of any kind?

If one of our hexers would tell me what file name is being referenced by the item #oil in the corresponding .dat files, I could whip up an image and see if this is the only thing stopping the oil from showing up. Or, perhaps the image is there, but the ID for it is wrong.

[Trevally.]

Just checked the log and it was either a Cimmaron Tanker or a Large steamer.

[Madox58]

If you open particles.dat with Goblin,
then merge the Materials.dat,
all the materials do show in the
BitMapParticles/ObjectParticles sections.

WARNING!!!
Do NOT save the particle/material dat files with Goblin!
They contain Type 4/100 nodes and Goblin WILL remove them!
They also contain 3D objects.
Goblin will also remove those!

A future particles update for S3D will solve the editing problem.

[SteelViking]

I know that there is an entry for it, but when you go to the image, it is a blank bitmap.

[karamazovnew]

I'm hoping that someone would do a mod to simulate oil fires when tankers go down.:)

:timeout:
When tankers do burn for a long time, this happens:
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/destroyed-in-seconds-oil-tanker-explosion.html (http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/destroyed-in-seconds-oil-tanker-explosion.html)

However, don't expect to see a burning tanker spilling burning crude like a comet. Tankers are well protected against fires. A full cargotank that's also filled with inert gas is less likely to catch fire than Smokey the Bear in a swimming pool. A torpedo wouldn't do much good either as they generally explode below water :haha:. And since tankers are filled with lighter-than-water cargo, putting eels in the cargotanks is not the best way to go as water can't easily fill up the space. There've been cases of tankers being hit in the cargo space and arriving safely home. http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/2654.html

What you could get at "best" is a fire in the engine room that then extends to the rest of the ship. After a few hours of massive burning (like the one in Das Boot) you will get massive explosions that might spill the burning cargo into the water. But only if it doesn't sink before that. You're more likely to see a burning trail or a huge burning debris field on cargo ships or warships. However, note that an already damaged tanker which is venting fumes is a time-bomb. Here's a gasoline and jet fuel (MUCH more dangerous) filled tanker burning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8j2BWq4DFc. Make sure to read the description.

In SH what we should have is all tankers sinking much slower, about 40% having slow but eventually furious fires (especially if hit in the engine room) and occasional catastrophic explosions ripping the ship in pieces after a few hours. Since some tanker crews might've been careless, I suppose we could have a nice BIG BOOM on the first eel, but not more than 5% of the times.:salute:

By the way, crude oil can be very hard to ignite on water, a simple open flame won't usually do: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/14/eveningnews/main6582198.shtml.

"Controlled burn igniter Anthony Verdin lights the flare that melts a jug filled with kerosene and accelerant gel. It ignites the oil. Within minutes a small fire can become a massive one. Big fires burn off 2,000 gallons a minute."

Water dilutes the composition, keeps the mixture cold. On the other hand it keeps the oil in a thin slick on a wide surface so when it ignites, it burns very fast.

[Madox58]

I know that there is an entry for it, but when you go to the image, it is a blank bitmap.


The Materials.dat shows an embedded image which is actually not embedded.
Remove that node for every image that is actually not there.
(They show a Red X in the preview box)
Compare the BAZA_FX.dat file to the Materials.dat to see what I mean.

I'd do a few and then test.
If it works?
Do the rest.

Sorry I can not test this.
:nope:

[SteelViking]

I will give it a try privateer. But, that does not seem to me like it would make our invisible oil visible. However, without those nodes with no actual image embedded, it seems like the game would be more stable(maybe I am just being too optimistic).

[Madox58]

Those images are not embedded in the Materials.dat in SH4.
They are in the texture folders just as they are in SH5
Only SH5 calls textures differently then SH4.
That's why I said to give it a try.
;)

[longam]

It would be nice to see some lingering burning oil. This usual sunk and gone doesn't really give you a lasting feeling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dspZPfjRoVQ