[TEC] The future of S3D / DAT-file format

[skwasjer]

Since I've indicated I will (likely) release an updated to S3D, and some people are trying to make S3D work (read: mod) with the new data built on top of SH4's DAT-file format I will make this new thread here in the SH5 section. This thread is to ask anyone of you to publish any info you have found regarding the file format, any customization you made to S3D's controller templates, etc. and perhaps even a wishlist for the next installment of S3D.

Provided enough info is gathered, and alot of prework is done, this saves me from having to work on S3D all by myself, something I can no longer do like I have in the past. I will take any info you have, and consider any question/tip. Remember that the more you help out, the more likely development on S3D will be continued, as a (partial) replacement for the Goblin editor, a tool that lacks in many departments.

At least privateer has done quite a few modifications already (here and there with my help), and I hope more of you can help out. Obviously, you will receive credit for your efforts, as many users and other modders will benefit from your support.

If you have (technical) questions or need pointers related to S3D or hex, you can also ask them here. Me or privateer or someone else may be able to answer.

Perhaps privateer can post the links to all his S3D-mods, so I can copy them in the first post.

[skwasjer]

Reserved for explanation of controller templates.

[SteelViking]

First of all, thank you very much for even considering further development of S3D so that it can be used to work on SH5.

Sadly, I cannot give too much technical help, but I can definitely think of things that would be very helpful to future modding of SH5. The one thing that I would like to be able to do the most, would be to add nodes in S3D. Goblin is fully capable of adding controllers for particle generators and the like, however, it does not have the ability of adding nodes themselves. As it stands, if you add a node in S3D, and use Goblin to add a controller to it(a particle generator for instance) and save, upon reopening that file, the controller will be lost and will no longer function(this is what happens when you don't assign a parent ID, and I would expect this really). However, when you assign a parent ID, Goblin will simply CTD upon opening the file. If there is a way around this known already, please let me know about it.

Of course, I would also like for S3D to be able to open GR2 files, I know we cannot alter them, but they lead me to the next item on my wish list. Exporting of 3D objects, and of course being able to import them back into a .sim or other controller file would be a godsend.

I don't pretend to know how much work it would take to make these things come to fruition, or if they are even possible, but they would be an incredible help in any future projects.

[Webster]

yes thank you, people just dont seam to understand how much work goes into something like this and the simpler and easier it is to use means it took that much more work to make it look and work so trouble free and easy.

thank you for devoting your time and effort to do this for the community :salute:

[Royale-Adio]

Are you all saying that S3D could edit GR2 files with the proper modifications?

Just to know...

[TheBeast]

This has to be the best news I've read in the SH5 Forums.:salute:

I've been tinkering around with the Ganny Models since the day I received SH5 but kept hitting locked doors. Almost like Ubi was dangling a carrot just out of reach. Now, I can even smell that carrot and I am getting hungry...:DL
There are so many possablities to examine and issue's to fix relating to the GR2 Model. Hopefully you, we, SH community can finally unlock those doors exposing those area's that need to be addressed.:rock:

[Royale-Adio]

Hopefully you, we, SH community can finally unlock those doors exposing those area's that need to be addressed.:rock:

Like the creation of a Type 9? A Type 21 maybe? :rock:

[Nisgeis]

A modded S3D that works with SH5? Best mod ever!

[skwasjer]

Are you all saying that S3D could edit GR2 files with the proper modifications?

Just to know...
GR2 support is not likely I'm afraid, at least initially. The reason obviously being licensing issues. I've indicated in the past that I could integrate GR2 support, techically I can do it (and have tested it), but am limited by this factor. Perhaps I 'can' use the GR2-files for preview purposes, but import/export may be a stretch too far, not to mention it is a lot of work, another limiting factor.

I do not intend to sit around another year developing S3D. The main goal now for S3D is to support all new/changed controllers, that is does not conflict with SH3/4, and to provide shortcuts to otherwise tedious tasks. It will not completely replace Goblin, at least for a while.

[Madox58]

@skwasjer,

I'll round up all the modded files I have and get a link to you.
There's a couple more I'd like to finish first.
(Again, thanks to your help!)

I'll also post any info I have, or find out, on the Controllers.
Some of them we have discussed but I feel it would be best to
get them placed in this thread for reference.


@All Modders,

Another area that all of us should keep an eye on is
the needed steps and/or tricks to get Goblin and S3D working
hand in hand.
Also how or how not to do things.
Goblin seems touchy at times when adding or changeing files.
We need to understand why it's doing this and how to work around it.

[Madox58]

Some information about Goblin and controllers issues:


Some Controllers are listed as Type 10/1000
Upon saveing edited changes to those Controllers?
They are re-classed and saved as Type 10/-1
This seems not to affect the Game play.

Type 4/100 nodes will not be saved by Goblin.
This leads to lost controllers upon re-opening with Goblin.
Adding with S3D or Hex?
They are valid in Game and cause no issues as yet identified.
(IE, TDW's Smoke and Flags Mods seem very stable)
Note that once the Type 4/100 are added,
no future adjustments to said files can be made in Goblin without
a lost controller Issue.

[Madox58]

Question on Exporting RawChunks with S3D.
Is it possible to export all Child nodes of any given chunk?
If not now, could it be an added feature?

[Nisgeis]

They are valid in Game and cause no issues as yet identified.

I wouldn't use that as a yard stick. Just because a change doesn't cause problems doesn't mean it's correct syntactically. The game is very forgiving and will accept all sorts of errors without batting an eye lid. But add another error in of the same type and bang, explosion.

I remember Skwas talking of a number of hack jobs from hex editting that on their own didn't cause problems, but did cause damage to the files and problems down the line. So, just because something works, doesn't mean it's right or has the right data structure.

Build on solid foundations and you'l have a stable set of tools. Build on uncertain ground? Who knows what might crop up.

[Madox58]

I wouldn't use that as a yard stick. Just because a change doesn't cause problems doesn't mean it's correct syntactically. The game is very forgiving and will accept all sorts of errors without batting an eye lid. But add another error in of the same type and bang, explosion.

I remember Skwas talking of a number of hack jobs from hex editting that on their own didn't cause problems, but did cause damage to the files and problems down the line. So, just because something works, doesn't mean it's right or has the right data structure.

What part of "no issues as yet identified" is not clear to you or others?
I am looking for solutions.
Not stateing it's the only way.
The whole thing is going to be a path of discovery.
We will find what's right and wrong as we go.
SH3 and SH4 went through this.
We try what worked with SH3/SH4 and if it don't work?
We find out why and move forwards.
Just because We got Goblin does not make it the end all be all Tool.
S3D was not nor is the end all be all Tool.
A Hex Editor is also not the end all be all Tool.
The finest Tools out there?
Knowledge , willingness to attempt something,
and refuseing to believe it can't be done or figured out.
SH5 is a new Game.
You nor I know for a stone cold fact what is what as a whole.
I use what I learned in the best way I can to assist moveing forward.
Will we all make mistakes?
You better believe it!
We will FUBAR everything we can until we have all the answers!
If stacking on unknown controllers leads to a CTD?
I want to know about it and why!
Then look to adjust.
Theories at this point?
Are just theories.

[skwasjer]

Some Controllers are listed as Type 10/1000
Upon saveing edited changes to those Controllers?
They are re-classed and saved as Type 10/-1
This seems not to affect the Game play.

For my clarification, saving with Goblin or saving with S3D?


Note that once the Type 4/100 are added,
no future adjustments to said files can be made in Goblin without
a lost controller Issue.
Do you know why?

[Madox58]

Saveing with Goblin changes the Type from 10/1000 to 10/-1
Saveing the same file with S3D does not change the types.

Goblin will not save a Type 4/100 Node.
It simpley removes it.
Then all the attached Nodes are now lost but remain in the file.
SH5 places nodes with the Blah-FX.GR2 file.
This is a physical placement Node.
(For lack of a better term)
All Placement Nodes, in all GR2 files, are a 3D placement thing.
They created little boxes and placed them in 3D.
Those objects were Hidden in 3D Max and exported as a GR2 file.
So SH5 'Sees' them.
We add a type 4/100 which 'works'.
Goblin has no idea what the heck they are!
But the Game engine Knows how to use them.
Thank God for that!

[skwasjer]

I wouldn't use that as a yard stick. Just because a change doesn't cause problems doesn't mean it's correct syntactically. The game is very forgiving and will accept all sorts of errors without batting an eye lid. But add another error in of the same type and bang, explosion.

I remember Skwas talking of a number of hack jobs from hex editting that on their own didn't cause problems, but did cause damage to the files and problems down the line. So, just because something works, doesn't mean it's right or has the right data structure.

Build on solid foundations and you'l have a stable set of tools. Build on uncertain ground? Who knows what might crop up.
I have always been very conservative in assuming what specific data may mean. This way I can guarantee stable operation of S3D. Especially in the early days, many hex-edited files contained what I believed wrong data, and I was proven right in almost all scenario's. Even today, some mods contain faulty data, and I really regret that these modmakers do not take extra care. Perhaps they do not realise it, perhaps they do. The game does have parsing rules that 'should' be followed, yet has a very relaxed parsing engine, allowing for all sorts of data file errors. This is a problem in itself, because when faulty data is accepted this leads to undefined behavior, or even the data is considered by other modders to be correct when it isn't. One must remember that a tool like S3D can't be as succesfull as it has, if it constantly produced unreliable files with all sorts of errors. So I must have done something right... :D

In privateers example, he may have a point, we just don't know yet. This is not a problem just yet. I will remain conservative as I always have until I can be conclusive. I have seen more stuff in the game files that were believed to be 'required' (by myself or others) when they weren't. Case in point, the TMAP. Many SH4 models contain 4 uv-maps, where the game actually only uses the first 2. The 3rd and 4th are unused, and in fact add to the file size of the model-files. I have always been skeptical about why 4 uv-maps where included, but could not prove this until 2 years after SH4's release, and I don't think many even know this right now.

The purpose right now of this thread is to gather all this kind of info, and see what we can make of it together.

[skwasjer]

Thanks for the info. It doesn't make it any easier though when the game apparently mixes DAT and GR2 nodes around... yukk!

Saveing with Goblin changes the Type from 10/1000 to 10/-1
Saveing the same file with S3D does not change the types.

Does it also do this for the other subtypes (ie.: 10/0 to 10/6?)

[Nisgeis]

What part of "no issues as yet identified" is not clear to you or others?
Hey, I just posted a cautionary tale. Your reaction is a little extreme and quite agressive... What part of 'blah' don't you understand? Oh please.

I am looking for solutions.
When trying to diffuse a bomb, advice of 'Don't kick the bomb' is just as valid as other advice.
Not stateing it's the only way.
I didn't say you were, I just say hey, be careful about assuming that's gospel just because it worked.
The whole thing is going to be a path of discovery.
Yes, with lots of people pitching in with ideas and comments. So probably the worst thing you could do is to have a go at someone who is trying to help no?
We will find what's right and wrong as we go.
SH3 and SH4 went through this.
We try what worked with SH3/SH4 and if it don't work?
We find out why and move forwards.
Yes, hence my 'hex editting causes problems cautionary post. Hex editting has caused problems in the past where people didn't edit the files to the correct standards.
Just because We got Goblin does not make it the end all be all Tool.
I didn't say it was. Obviously it isn't the be all and end all tool as it doesn't do half the jobs.
S3D was not nor is the end all be all Tool.
It's the best tool so far to emerge from the community bar none.
A Hex Editor is also not the end all be all Tool.
Agreed.
The finest Tools out there?
Knowledge , willingness to attempt something,
and refuseing to believe it can't be done or figured out.
How about you show willingness to work with the community without posting snotty posts like you just did? I always defended you and I thought your relapse in the SH4 ATO thread was a one off, but now I'm not so sure. Either you really do want to build a better SH5 modding toolset, or it's just a sham.
SH5 is a new Game.
Yes, so let's hope for a new spirit of co-operation and not the same old BS yeah?
You nor I know for a stone cold fact what is what as a whole.
I use what I learned in the best way I can to assist moveing forward.
I'm really not pretending to know 'what is what as a whole' whatever that means. I'm just saying don't take some hex editted gubbins as a solid foundation just because there have been no issues with it.
Will we all make mistakes?
You better believe it!
We will FUBAR everything we can until we have all the answers!
If stacking on unknown controllers leads to a CTD?
I want to know about it and why!
Then look to adjust.
Theories at this point?
Are just theories.

I have a theory that if someone posts a post trying to help, then it would be good if someone else didn't post a big long winded post about nothing in particular as that really will put off other people from helping, in case they got the same quote and speech response. Can't help in a way that Privateer wants? Then you just can't help and you must suffer a long speech? Is that the message you want to send? In any case, a long winded response is required for a long winded post.

Now Privateer, look what you've done. You've turned a thread about betterment of the community into something else. Why would you do that when I was just trying to help? Why would be so so snippy? Why? Why?

What part of 'Let's work together' is not clear to you or others?

[Madox58]

I have to say skwasjer is alot more Silver Talking then me.
;)

We have his attention Guys.
Take advantage of this as long as it lasts.
I've bantered back and forth with skwasjer for a long time now.

My main challange to him in an off hand way was to get me to
quit useing a hex editor.

Well he's come DAMNED close!
:rock:

If I can convince him to add one or two more things?
I'll retire the Basic Hex editors and only use S3D.

[TheDarkWraith]

My main challange to him in an off hand way was to get me to
quit useing a hex editor.

Well he's come DAMNED close!
:rock:

If I can convince him to add one or two more things?
I'll retire the Basic Hex editors and only use S3D.

:nope: You can't retire the best tool that can do anything you want it to do if you have the knowledge :DL I refuse to use any tool as it is nothing more than that - a tool that is only as smart as the person who made it (not putting down anyone's programming skills) and does what that person programmed it to do. A tool also stifles your creativity as it defines the rules and what's acceptable and not - hex editor doesn't care :up:

[skwasjer]

:hmmm::hmmm: Oh my...

TDW, some of your mods are exactly an example of what I was talking about. At least privateer in the past embraced some of my remarks regarding file errors in the GWX mod about 2 years ago and corrected them, and is willing to accept that some rules are to be followed (if only for the sake of community sanity). You can't just throw out any kind of mod that supposedly works, while it contains errors that can be avoided. You can do whatever you wish with S3D, I am not enforcing S3D on you or him, nor do I believe he will ever stop using one (nor do I see a reason why you or him should), but you could at least be more appreciative of what S3D has achieved in the community: more people making more advanced mods than 5 guys with a hex editor could have done without S3D's existance. And you could take that to your advantage by using it for many tasks it 'does' better than a hexeditor...

Now can we at least drop this discussion? I did not start it to start bashing at S3D, hexeditors or other tools. This is so pointless...

[Madox58]

I don't think anyone believes removeing Hex Editors completely is the goal.
And I mean Hex Editors as in Guys who know Hex and work in it.
It's a fact Modders have done great things with S3D with no knowledge of Hexing things as you and I do.
You and I also know those same Modders would not learn Hex as you and I know it.
It's a gift and a curse in ways.
I accept the fact that S3D can do many things just as I do them.
I also point out what it can not do.
In an attempt to improve.

You once took great care that things worked.
And I can remember you teaching me many times in the past.

You, skwasjer, me, and who ever else stands up and provides input
that advances things?

That's the whole deal.

Some of us may be faster, better, and more knowledgeable then others.
To me that means I owe them.
Not that they owe me.

[skwasjer]

I must point out, many oldskoolers but also many newcomers have had significant input in S3D's long running development (just look at the changelog). So S3D is not a product of me alone, the developer. Alot of community input I used to improve the tool with. This is what I am asking now again, only this time I ask it ahead of time, not during or afterwards...

No point in putting your head in the sand. Instead, step up to the plate and make a difference.

[SteelViking]

Once again, I don't have much in the way of technical help, but I can be relied upon for suggested features. I have been working with S3D a pretty good deal lately to see what it is capable of in regard to SH5, and the 3rd post of this thread contains my preliminary "wish list". To reiterate one of the wishes I made, I would love if S3D could be made to open GR2 files just to give us the ability to see the 3d models to make editing things a bit easier.

One more thing I can think of that would be a huge help is: would it be possible for S3d to be able to add way points for the crew. I know that the current waypoints are untouchable, as they are in a GR2 file, but would it be possible to add them to another type of controller file. Others have run into walls before when it comes to this issue. Heretic in particular noted that he was very limited in what the crew could be made to do because there were simply not enough waypoints available to script more behaviors into the game.

[urfisch]

Nice, to see some new progress on that topic, skwasjer. Here are the templates i changed for the fx effects in march.

http://rapidshare.com/files/363694792/Controllers.zip

I experienced the same problem, as stated by privateer. controller heads are lost, when opening the changed dat in goblin. This is where i got stuck. But changing the most controllers for particles is possible.

My Post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165022

:up:

[skwasjer]

Thanks urfisch.

[iambecomelife]

Since I've indicated I will (likely) release an updated to S3D, and some people are trying to make S3D work (read: mod) with the new data built on top of SH4's DAT-file format I will make this new thread here in the SH5 section. This thread is to ask anyone of you to publish any info you have found regarding the file format, any customization you made to S3D's controller templates, etc. and perhaps even a wishlist for the next installment of S3D.

Provided enough info is gathered, and alot of prework is done, this saves me from having to work on S3D all by myself, something I can no longer do like I have in the past. I will take any info you have, and consider any question/tip. Remember that the more you help out, the more likely development on S3D will be continued, as a (partial) replacement for the Goblin editor, a tool that lacks in many departments.

At least privateer has done quite a few modifications already (here and there with my help), and I hope more of you can help out. Obviously, you will receive credit for your efforts, as many users and other modders will benefit from your support.

If you have (technical) questions or need pointers related to S3D or hex, you can also ask them here. Me or privateer or someone else may be able to answer.

Perhaps privateer can post the links to all his S3D-mods, so I can copy them in the first post.

Afraid I can't add very much to the community's technical knowledge, but I do have a few requests for any future version of S3d (or its replacement):

-Ability to see weapons attached to nodes (presently, ships appear without turrets etc)

-Ability to preview particle effects

-Most importantly, enhanced 3d model importation. Namely, compatibility with non-triangulated .obj files. Currently, if I forget to triangulate a single item the whole ship or plane fails to import.

[skwasjer]

I understand how these functions would help, but I'm not looking to work another year on S3D. I am primarily focussing on adding support for missing pieces of data in SH5. They are noted, but don't count on it.

[Madox58]

Here's what I have so far.
Packed up as I use them with JSGME.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ma53n13qrgq2mni

New today is the obj_Turret and unit_Ship
(I just did a Vector3 on the ship_color for now)

[SteelViking]

-Ability to preview particle effects

Actually, we can do that right now using Goblin. Privateer told me how to do it a few days ago.:up: Load up whatever GR2 is associated with what you want to work on, then merge the respective .FX file, then go to the Library folder and merge the file BAZA_FX.dat. You will then be able to see the actual particle effects in Goblin. Or is this not what you meant?

[skwasjer]

Without looking at your templates just yet, this is what I made sofar for S3D for SH5. Take note, you CANNOT use ALL of them as is with the current S3D, since some of the templates depend on some core changes in S3D. However, you can use them as a guide and perhaps make temporary changes to your current S3D templates.

http://s3d.skwas.com/download.aspx?id=a389399f-6257-4c7e-beff-c275c1a4abf6

So be cautious!

PS: I have about 10-15 controllers left to check/implement. The problem right now, is not having SH3/SH4 installed to run a series of compatibility tests... :(

[Royale-Adio]

Is it possible to move object on the Z,X and Y axes in Goblin like in S3D?

[Madox58]

An updated version of urfisch's particles release.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dubuoa7blbnbk9c
This update allows opening and working with the PG's in the Subs files and the Baza_FX.dat
The particles.dat PG's are not yet implemented.

wpn_Cannon
http://www.mediafire.com/?0gls1558w8q5uv8

Files for working the camera.cam file.
http://www.mediafire.com/?arlxc1c2wttp6wf

[SteelViking]

@ privateer,

I just used the particle generator files that you provided a link to, and they worked like a charm(I only tested them one time so I would not put total faith in them just yet, but they seem to work perfectly). I was able to use S3D to make the changes I wanted to the PG's, and it did not affect TDW's added nodes or PGs at all. Everything worked correctly in game.

Edit: Did the same thing again, but this time I altered six PGs, and everything worked just fine once again.

[Madox58]

obj_Sensors.
http://www.mediafire.com/?s2gha18f566euwb

Adjust the AI_Sensors.sim with this controller.

[skwasjer]

All controllers are implemented. Now I will spend some time fixing other issues reported in the past, and check other compatibility issues. Then check with SH3/SH4, will take another week or so before release though.

Download the complete set of templates:

http://s3d.skwas.com/download.aspx?id=a389399f-6257-4c7e-beff-c275c1a4abf6

CAUTION: These templates will NOT work out-of-the-box with 0.9.9, however, they 'can' be adjusted. This is an exercise you will have to do yourself. However, your S3D will then no longer be compatible with SH3/4. The new S3D has a new load-model for controllers, allowing these new controllers to live side-by-side. If you can't wait, use this download (and modify them), otherwise wait for the next S3D release.

In total, there are 45 changed or new controllers. Thanks to privateer and urfisch for doing some legwork on some controllers, although I did have to make corrections, still thanks for the work. If privateer wants to release these templates (modified) for 0.9.9, be my guest.


http://s3d.skwas.com/downloads/s3dv1.jpg

[Madox58]

Very good news indeed.
:up:

I'll adjust a few of the files to work with the current version as a hold over
till your release.

I knew you'd have to adjust some things I did.
;)
I am learning though.
:salute:

[urfisch]

Thanks a lot! Nice addition...will try that...

[Madox58]

Bumping to keep it alive!
:rock:

[skwasjer]

So much work, so little time... :O:

I need to finish other work (speech mod) first or I will lose track completely... :yawn:

[urfisch]

:yeah:

:arrgh!:

[Badger Finn]

*Bump*

Hows this all going ?

You guys think theres a good chance you can snappy this SH5 title into a more realistic playable sim ? physics etc...

It reads pretty promising I must say...

:salute:

[Rubini]

All controllers are implemented. Now I will spend some time fixing other issues reported in the past, and check other compatibility issues. Then check with SH3/SH4, will take another week or so before release though.

Download the complete set of templates:

http://s3d.skwas.com/download.aspx?id=a389399f-6257-4c7e-beff-c275c1a4abf6

CAUTION: These templates will NOT work out-of-the-box with 0.9.9, however, they 'can' be adjusted. This is an exercise you will have to do yourself. However, your S3D will then no longer be compatible with SH3/4. The new S3D has a new load-model for controllers, allowing these new controllers to live side-by-side. If you can't wait, use this download (and modify them), otherwise wait for the next S3D release.

In total, there are 45 changed or new controllers. Thanks to privateer and urfisch for doing some legwork on some controllers, although I did have to make corrections, still thanks for the work. If privateer wants to release these templates (modified) for 0.9.9, be my guest.




**BUMP**

Hi skwasjer,

Any news on this? Do you have these modified templates to download? Or perhaps privateer have them?

I know that you have no intentions to go ahead with S3D but perhaps at least we could have these modified and working templates? You know that Goblin is too limited and TDW works is more at the 3d object edition side. A S3D working version - even that partially - is very necessary and will be a very good addition to the SH5 community!:up:

And thanks again by your great contribution for SH community, it was an awesome work! I need to thank you in any opportunity because i use S3D for almost everything on my mod work!

[pedrobas]

**BUMP**

Hi skwasjer,

Any news on this? Do you have these modified templates to download? Or perhaps privateer have them?

I know that you have no intentions to go ahead with S3D but perhaps at least we could have these modified and working templates? You know that Goblin is too limited and TDW works is more at the 3d object edition side. A S3D working version - even that partially - is very necessary and will be a very good addition to the SH5 community!:up:

And thanks again by your great contribution for SH community, it was an awesome work! I need to thank you in any opportunity because i use S3D for almost everything on my mod work!
Hi Rubini, if you get this files , just let us know, please.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini, if you get this files , just let us know, please.
Privateer is also looking at this. Let´s wait a bit , I guess that we will have good news.:up:

[Madox58]

I have the files and will play with them tomorrow.
You need to understand that you can not view the GR2 3d models with S3D.

But for other files?
What skwasjer, Urfish, and I did works fine.
There may be a few issues that I'll figure out but I know I did quite alot of things with S3D that no one thought was possible.

You may need to work back and forth with Goblin also.
Depends on what you really want to do.

[Rubini]

I have the files and will play with them tomorrow.
You need to understand that you can not view the GR2 3d models with S3D.

But for other files?
What skwasjer, Urfish, and I did works fine.
There may be a few issues that I'll figure out but I know I did quite alot of things with S3D that no one thought was possible.

You may need to work back and forth with Goblin also.
Depends on what you really want to do.
Yes, this is clear to me. GR2 is another history. We will yet need the old Goblin eventually and mainly TDW´s GR2 editor to mess with nodes and 3D/meshs/materials.

The good side of an working S3D for Sh5 is that a lot of things can be made easily, like adding controllers, copy/delete/replace, new IDs, etc.:up:

[TheDarkWraith]

The good side of an working S3D for Sh5 is that a lot of things can be made easily, like adding controllers, copy/delete/replace, new IDs, etc.:up:

Goblin allows you to add/edit controllers just not in dat files.

IDs are not like they were in SH3/4. They are determined from the name of the item in the GR2 file (some kind of algorithm that I haven't looked into/figured out yet).

[Rubini]

Goblin allows you to add/edit controllers just not in dat files.

IDs are not like they were in SH3/4. They are determined from the name of the item in the GR2 file (some kind of algorithm that I haven't looked into/figured out yet).
Exactly because in sh5 we have some mix of .dat files too (a quick search shows me 84 .dat working files in my SH5 folders!). Until your GR2 editor becomes the S3d for SH5 I guess that a partially working S3d will be very good for modders!

[Anvart]

... You need to understand that you can not view the GR2 3d models with S3D.
...
... but you can create plugin for direct import this models into 3ds Max... :O:

[TheDarkWraith]

... but you can create plugin for direct import this models into 3ds Max... :O:

and what does that do for you? I don't understand how that can benefit someone :06:

[Madox58]

In the long run?
I could see advantages to a direct link to Max if it worked both ways.
But not everyone uses Max so it's a tiny window to worry about.

As for editing zones for ships or such in SH5 GR2 format?
S3D is going to be a hard way to do it as you can not see what your doing!
Goblin crashes so often on me that I could never get somethings done I wanted to try.
Adjusting S3D files solved that in many areas once adjustments were made to the core controller files.

Is it perfect? NO!
But then again there is not a single perfect Tool for any version of SH3/4/5!!

To think there is a single perfect Tool for any version of SH is insane on a level that tells me one is loopy enuff to see them on an on ramp with a sign.....

SH Modder needs help.
Give what you can and God Bless you!!

LOL!!!

[Anvart]

and what does that do for you? ...
Thanks... the simplest argument... developers created the game using 3ds Max, so they adapted (optimized) their SDK for 3ds Max and maybe Maya and so on.
... if i will need i can do it myself.
...
SH Modder needs help.
Give what you can and God Bless you!!
LOL!!!
Let's flag to hand and forward with the song...
LOL!!!
...
You have enough knowledge, experience and stuff to make new (or borrow existing in other games) objects and integrate them into SH5 as native gr2 files... :03:

[Madox58]

...
You have enough knowledge, experience and stuff to make new (or borrow existing in other games) objects and integrate them into SH5 as native gr2 files... :03:

Busy helping others write Tools for SWTOR just now.
Those are a Custom type of GR2 file but very easy to read.
Except for the Normals and TexCoords which use compressed formats.
(Yes I know how those are decompressed)

[Anvart]

Busy helping others write Tools for SWTOR just now.
Those are a Custom type of GR2 file but very easy to read.
Except for the Normals and TexCoords which use compressed formats.
(Yes I know how those are decompressed)
:salute:
Excellent!
... but i still do not have the technical ability to do something, and my current computer is free from any SH...

[sergbuto]

The IDs in SH3 stock files were indeed derived from the name of the item or part of the name. The developers were using binary format for that (0s and 1s) and then representing them in HEX code. That is how I have initially figured the whole ID thing (by translating the short names of items opened in HEX editor into binary format and comparing with their ID label) and started the HEX editing of SH3 items. The number of letters from the name was limited by the number of bits for the ID in the HEX code, so that the long names of items were truncated before translating to the binary format.

Since I have started decoding with items with short names (like 3-4 leteers) I have quickly figured out the origin of the IDs in SH3.

Goblin allows you to add/edit controllers just not in dat files.

IDs are not like they were in SH3/4. They are determined from the name of the item in the GR2 file (some kind of algorithm that I haven't looked into/figured out yet).

[Anvart]

:up:
Thanks, Sergey.
Very interesting idea/discovery... StringToBinary (expression [, flag]).
...
I hope, you are fine...

[urfisch]

interesting, thanks for the progress on that!

:up: