ship names?

[jangles]

HI ,

Just a quickie , what is the purpose of the Ship names I see sailor steve post every month?

thanks

[frau kaleun]

It's a monthly update of a file included with SH3 Commander that gives real historical ship names to the ships you sink in the game.

In Commander, there is an option for using real ship names in the patrol logs. If you check it, it will pull names from the file to fill out your logs (and keep track of which ones have already been used so you don't sink the same ship twice).

Every month, Steve adds some new ship names to the file and posts the updated version, those who use it just replace their existing version in SH3 Commander with the updated one.

[Captain Nemo]

(and keep track of which ones have already been used so you don't sink the same ship twice).

I never knew that, I wonder what would happen though if you used up all the ship names of a particular class?

Nemo

[Sailor Steve]

:yep:

Over 11,000 names now, organized so when you sink a ship it gets the name that matches the size and appearance of the one you sank.

I never knew that, I wonder what would happen though if you used up all the ship names of a particular class?
It would start over. That's a fault of the game, which is supposedly fixed in SH5. But there are enough in each category that you should be okay.

[jangles]

so the name of the ship would appear automatically in your log? , or do yiou have to identify it ingame before you sink it?

are all ships named?, even smaller merchant vessels?

[frau kaleun]

It only works via SH3 Commander, and (I presume) only if you check the "use real ship names" option.

In order to populate your patrol log with real ship names from the shipnames file, after you finish a patrol you must exit the game and reopen Commander. Select that career and click on "other available actions" for that kaleun and then click "update personnel file" to update his info with the results of the patrol you just finished. That will trigger Commander to generate a patrol log using real ship names for the sinkings in that patrol.

You must update the personnel file first in order to see real ship names in your patrol log.

As far as I can tell you don't have to ID a ship in the game for this to work, since the Ship Names feature assigns a name based on the class of ship sunk, which the game knows and adds to your in-game log even if you didn't ID it correctly as such (or at all).

I have not yet sunk anything that wasn't given a name with this feature, including some pretty small stuff.

[Gerald]

:yep:

Over 11,000 names now, organized so when you sink a ship it gets the name that matches the size and appearance of the one you sank.


It would start over. That's a fault of the game, which is supposedly fixed in SH5. But there are enough in each category that you should be okay.
A new mod to my "list" :yep:

[frau kaleun]

A new mod to my "list" :yep:

Note that this is a "mod" used by SH3 Commander, not the game itself. If you're using one of the more recent versions of Commander you already have it, just select "use real ship names" from Commander's options. Then if you like you can download Steve's updated ship names file each month and overwrite the current version with the newer one.

[Jimbuna]

I never knew that, I wonder what would happen though if you used up all the ship names of a particular class?

Nemo

There is actually a possibility of that happening if you have the Q ship mod enabled because there are only 14 vessels (9 Brit and 5 US).

What frustrates me the most is the fact that you can get a vessels name from either country regardless of the flag she is flying.

The above is not down to Steves ship names though.....simply the low number of choices SH3 Commander has to choose from.

[frau kaleun]

There is actually a possibility of that happening if you have the Q ship mod enabled because there are only 14 vessels (9 Brit and 5 US).

What frustrates me the most is the fact that you can get a vessels name from either country regardless of the flag she is flying.

True, I've sunk a few ships so far this career that showed up in the logs with the names of US ships and I'm only up to July 1940. It's kind of jarring to see "USS something or other" on your list of sunk ships in December 1939, lol. Bu-bu-bu-but I saw the flag! They were Tommies, I swear! :D

When that happens I just open the shipnames.cfg file and choose a different name from the list of ships for that same class, and then go into my career folder and open the file for that patrol's log and sub in a name that at leasts *sounds* British (I figure "Empire something or other" is always a good bet, lol). Then I go into my Commander folder and open the file for used ship names and add the one I've chosen to it, and take out the one that I replaced with it.

My favorite so far though was this last patrol where the ship the game told me was the HMS Warspite when I was sinking it got renamed the HMS Queen Elizabeth in my Commander-generated log. I just named it back as noted above. I know they're the same class ship but I SANK THE WARSPITE DAMMIT. :stare:

The real kicker was that it had already shown up a second time later in that same patrol. Imagine my surprise to see her sailing with a convoy out of Freetown in May when I'd just sent her to the bottom somewhere west of Narvik in April. :haha:

Edit: hey Steve I wonder do you keep separate lists of which ships are Yanks and which are Tommies? I've considered actually creating two separate shipname files for myself, one that would include the US names and one that didn't. Then I'd just use the "no Yanks" file until after Dec 1941. Please note I'm NOT asking you to create two files for that purpose, I'm just curious if a list of US only ship names is readily available. OTOH I could just take out the ones that are *obviously* US or seem so to me, since if it doesn't seem bloody obvious I'm not gonna know the difference when it shows up in a patrol log.

[Sailor Steve]

There is actually a possibility of that happening if you have the Q ship mod enabled because there are only 14 vessels (9 Brit and 5 US).
Oh lordy I hope I don't run into 14 of those in a career! :gulp:

When that happens I just open the shipnames.cfg file and choose a different name from the list of ships for that same class, and then go into my career folder and open the file for that patrol's log and sub in a name that at leasts *sounds* British (I figure "Empire something or other" is always a good bet, lol). Then I go into my Commander folder and open the file for used ship names and add the one I've chosen to it, and take out the one that I replaced with it.
One of the things I'm considering is offering to give the true tonnage of the ship to anyone who wants to PM me with the names. The problem with that would be that the game can't retroactively change the tonnage, so your total score would still be the same.

As for the 'different flags' problem, IABL's ships come in American and British versions, so it's easier, but SH3 and SH4 ships don't, so making them multi-country means cloning new ships which means still longer loading times and more load to make the PC crash.

I'm still hoping for a Commander-like tool for SH4. SH5 should be easier when it's finally ready to play.

[Jimbuna]

and sub in a name that at leasts *sounds* British (I figure "Empire something or other" is always a good bet, lol). Then I go into my Commander folder and open the file for used ship names and add the one I've chosen to it, and take out the one that I replaced with it.



Probably the worst choice of name you could pick...I'll let Steve explain to you why :DL:03:

[Badger Finn]

Edit: hey Steve I wonder do you keep separate lists of which ships are Yanks and which are Tommies? I've considered actually creating two separate shipname files for myself, one that would include the US names and one that didn't. Then I'd just use the "no Yanks" file until after Dec 1941. Please note I'm NOT asking you to create two files for that purpose, I'm just curious if a list of US only ship names is readily available. OTOH I could just take out the ones that are *obviously* US or seem so to me, since if it doesn't seem bloody obvious I'm not gonna know the difference when it shows up in a patrol log.

You could mayby use the random folder feature of SHC? Activate the names when required by date?
SHC is a powerful add on that I still havnt figured out properly yet. I suspect if you use it properly you could change many things other than load screens and music such as uniforms etc etc..

.:hmm2:

[frau kaleun]

Probably the worst choice of name you could pick...I'll let Steve explain to you why :DL:03:

Well crap. Why, Steve?

[iambecomelife]

Well crap. Why, Steve?

I'm not sure why it's a bad procedure...?

In real life, Empire freighters came in all sizes and shapes (although many of them were sisters or near sisters of ~6800 tons with split deckhouse).
For instance, captured German & Italian merchantman were almost always given an Empire name - hence, an Empire name can plausibly be used for any design.

[Sailor Steve]

Edit: hey Steve I wonder do you keep separate lists of which ships are Yanks and which are Tommies? I've considered actually creating two separate shipname files for myself, one that would include the US names and one that didn't. Then I'd just use the "no Yanks" file until after Dec 1941. Please note I'm NOT asking you to create two files for that purpose, I'm just curious if a list of US only ship names is readily available. OTOH I could just take out the ones that are *obviously* US or seem so to me, since if it doesn't seem bloody obvious I'm not gonna know the difference when it shows up in a patrol log.
Give me the name and I can tell you what country it was from, what the real tonnage was and when it entered the war. I have everything separated by country, including Latvian, Estonian and Russian. In the US files I have Chilean, Honduran, Panamanian, you name it.

As for the 'Empires', as IABL said, when the Ministry Of Transport became the Ministry Of War Transport they started purchasing ships, and the ones that they bought or siezed from other nations were all renamed 'Empire' something-or-other. I have a 400-ton tugboat listed that was called Empire Fred.

Ships purchased from the US were named after animals - Empire Ibix, Empire Jaguar, Empire Ocelot, or after weapons - Empire Battleaxe, Empire Mace, Empire Broadsword; except for the Liberties which for some reason were all named 'Sam' - Samcebu, Samcuba, Samtana...

The ships we call the 'Empire Ships' (M35B) were a British-built version of the Liberties, the main difference being the split superstructure. Ones built in Canada were called 'Forts' and 'Parks', depending on the shipyards that built them, and there were a bunch built in America called 'Oceans'. Also some were purchased by individual shipping companies, which is why that list has so many different varieties of names.

Also British home-grown tankers of the 8000-ton class were had interesting names. The diesel ships were named for things that come out of the ground - Empire Amethyst, Empire Gold, Empire Oil, and the steam-powered ones were named for 'peoples' - Empire Celt, Empire Yeoman, etc.

Ships with 'Empire' names numbered in the thousands and spanned every type of ship imaginable, except for warships, of course.

[frau kaleun]

The real "issue" for me is that I was assuming anything named "Empire <something>" was a British ship at the time I sank it and not a US one.

It's not really that big of an issue overall, since I'm only picking alternate names for my patrol logs to sub in for anything that is or appears to be a US ship at a time when they were still neutral and I *know* I'm not sinking US ships. I don't want to look in my log for July 1940 and see some ship named the "USS Thingamajig" when I know the ship I actually sank was an enemy vessel flying a British flag. There may very well be ships in my logs that were, historically, from still neutral countries on the date I sank them. But if they don't look obviously "wrong" to me, or have the name of a ship I already know belonged to a different country than the flag it was flying when I sank it, it's no biggie.

[Robin40]

Hey Sailor Steve,

where can I find the ShipNames updated list?

[CherryHarbey]

Robin40,
you will find it here.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2746

[NoGoodLandLubber]

Sweet! I'm grabbing it too!

:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

After all the talk about me doing it monthly, it seems six months have gone by without a new update. Partly my fault for being lazy, and partly because I've also been quite busy.

I should be starting again soon.

[NoGoodLandLubber]

Anything I can do to help?? :shucks:

[Sailor Steve]

Not really. I have a system, and it requires that I look into each and every ship I put into the file. It wouldn't be hard to teach it to someone else, but it would be near impossible to coordinate. thanks for the offer though.

[JScones]

It would start over. That's a fault of the game, which is supposedly fixed in SH5. But there are enough in each category that you should be okay.
Only if the "RepeatWhenAllUsed" setting in Ship names.cfg is set to 1.

[JScones]

When that happens I just open the shipnames.cfg file and choose a different name from the list of ships for that same class, and then go into my career folder and open the file for that patrol's log and sub in a name that at leasts *sounds* British (I figure "Empire something or other" is always a good bet, lol). Then I go into my Commander folder and open the file for used ship names and add the one I've chosen to it, and take out the one that I replaced with it.

My favorite so far though was this last patrol where the ship the game told me was the HMS Warspite when I was sinking it got renamed the HMS Queen Elizabeth in my Commander-generated log. I just named it back as noted above. I know they're the same class ship but I SANK THE WARSPITE DAMMIT. :stare:

The real kicker was that it had already shown up a second time later in that same patrol. Imagine my surprise to see her sailing with a convoy out of Freetown in May when I'd just sent her to the bottom somewhere west of Narvik in April. :haha:

Edit: hey Steve I wonder do you keep separate lists of which ships are Yanks and which are Tommies? I've considered actually creating two separate shipname files for myself, one that would include the US names and one that didn't. Then I'd just use the "no Yanks" file until after Dec 1941. Please note I'm NOT asking you to create two files for that purpose, I'm just curious if a list of US only ship names is readily available. OTOH I could just take out the ones that are *obviously* US or seem so to me, since if it doesn't seem bloody obvious I'm not gonna know the difference when it shows up in a patrol log.
It would be good if someone (suspiciously like Steve) could create "pre Dec 1941" and "post Dec 1941" versions of the file. Users (with the requisite skills) could then apply the pre file until the Yanks enter the war then replace it with the post file after. The pre file places emphasis on Cwlth names, the post includes Yank names. It doesn't matter how many ships are actually in the game, it just assumes that players (at least those who take the game relatively seriously) would not sink too many Yank ships prior to Dec 1941.

[JScones]

SHC is a powerful add on that I still havnt figured out properly yet. I suspect if you use it properly you could change many things other than load screens and music such as uniforms etc etc..

.:hmm2:
You are 100% correct. And this is partly my fault. I built the tools but never really explained to the layman how they could exploit them. A few people have taken up the challenge with very effective results (sabotage and malfunctions are courtesy of Hemisent and WB has done some amazing things with some of his mods). There's still lots that SH3Cmdr can do that no-one has tapped. Unfortunately, I really no longer have the time or temperament to mention what could be done, and then go through it with everyone. So I just explain things when people approach me privately.

[frau kaleun]

It would be good if someone (suspiciously like Steve) could create "pre Dec 1941" and "post Dec 1941" versions of the file. Users (with the requisite skills) could then apply the pre file until the Yanks enter the war then replace it with the post file after. The pre file places emphasis on Cwlth names, the post includes Yank names. It doesn't matter how many ships are actually in the game, it just assumes that players (at least those who take the game relatively seriously) would not sink too many Yank ships prior to Dec 1941.

This is exactly what I'm working on for myself. Altho TBH I haven't been too persnickety about whether a ship name actually IS American, or just sounds American - in most cases I don't know the difference. So it's a question of whether I just want my logs to "look right" to my own eyes, or want the pinpoint accuracy of knowing exactly where each ship was from and thus removing it from the pre-12/41 list if needed.

Fortunately the more I look at it the more I see that for a lot of the classes in there now it doesn't matter, as the classes themselves are more or less "nation specific" (or at least specific to the Americas vs. Europe, close enough for gubmint work :O:).

Steve was kind enough to send me his "working file" as well so there's a lot of info in there re: nationalities of ships I would never have figured out on my own.

What I may end up doing is getting as far as I can on my own, and then if Steve doesn't mind, asking him about any specific ships that are "left over" and I'm unsure about.

[Sailor Steve]

It would be good if someone (suspiciously like Steve) could create "pre Dec 1941" and "post Dec 1941" versions of the file. Users (with the requisite skills) could then apply the pre file until the Yanks enter the war then replace it with the post file after. The pre file places emphasis on Cwlth names, the post includes Yank names. It doesn't matter how many ships are actually in the game, it just assumes that players (at least those who take the game relatively seriously) would not sink too many Yank ships prior to Dec 1941.
Not only could I do that, but I would be glad to. The problem is I have no idea how the files should be named. If the Random or Date functions can be made to apply them properly it would be a great thing. Of course I don't know how to do that either.

@ NoGoodLandLubber: You asked if you could help. Are you any good at learning that kind of thing? :sunny:

[frau kaleun]

What I'm thinking about the Random and Date folders in Commander (and Jaesen will correct me if I'm wrong :D) is that they can only be used to insert/overwrite files in the game folder when Commander is used to launch SH3. I don't think they can be used to make Commander itself operate differently, or switch back and forth between two or more versions of one of its own .cfg files depending on the in-game date for whatever career you're updating/playing at the moment. :hmmm:

My idea was to create two mods, one for before Dec 10 1941 and another for that date and after. The first one would have the edited down version of whatever the current Shipnames.cfg file is, the other would have the full lists of ship names for use after the US enters the war. Then I would enable/disable them as needed depending on what date I was playing in-game.

But that wouldn't work as smoothly for someone who is playing more than one career using the same installation of Commander, they'd have to remember to switch back and forth more often depending on which career they were going to choose and what the current in-game date was for that particular kaleun.

If there were a way to make that "automatic" within Commander itself that would be very handy but if there is it's still a mystery to me. :O:

[NoGoodLandLubber]

Hmm...not sure...I can at least take a look at it if someone can point me in the right direction....

[Sailor Steve]

On reflection I realized that what Jaesen suggested is easier than I though, at least where the files themselves are concerned. IABL's Merchants are already divided, of course, and if they are done right the Americans should already not appear until 12/07/41, so there's nothing that needs to be done there.

As for the rest, I realize now that all it would involve is going through all the others, removing all the US ships and saving the new file with a different name. Some work there, but nothing to really worry about.

So if someone can figure out how to make it work automatically in Commander, I'm on it. :sunny:

[frau kaleun]

On reflection I realized that what Jaesen suggested is easier than I though, at least where the files themselves are concerned. IABL's Merchants are already divided, of course, and if they are done right the Americans should already not appear until 12/07/41, so there's nothing that needs to be done there.

:yep: That's what I noticed once I started digging into the different classes - the only ones that would have to be edited are the ones where the class includes ships from a mix of nations where some were still neutral for several years and the rest were in it early on. Like the Q-ships, where you wouldn't want to sink one in 1940 and have it turn up in your logs as one of the US ships that shouldn't have been out there at that time.


So if someone can figure out how to make it work automatically in Commander, I'm on it. :sunny:

So far the closest I've come to "automatic" is to install JSGME in Commander and use that to enable one version of 'Ship Names.cfg' from the start of the war until Dec 9 1941 (I'm thinking I remember that Germany didn't declare war on the US until Dec 10) and another version of the file once you've completed a patrol on or around the switch-over date.

Make two folders - call them Ship Names 1 and Ship Names 2 (or whatever). The first one is for use through Dec 9 1941, the second one for use after that.

Inside each is another folder, Cfg, and in each Cfg folder goes the version of Ship Names.cfg to be used in the selected time period. So the structure would look like:

Ship Names 1\Cfg\Ship Names.cfg
(where Ship Names.cfg = the version edited to reflect early American neutrality)

and

Ship Names 2\Cfg\Ship Names.cfg
(where Ship Names.cfg = the unedited version including all American ships)

Copy both mods into the MODS folder of the SH3 Commander directory, open JSGME for Commander, enable/disable them when necessary dependng on your in-game date.

If there's a way to make Commander switch back and forth between two versions of the same file without modding it like that, I can't figure it out. Which doesn't mean much, lol, but that's where I'm at with it at the moment. :D

[Sailor Steve]

I'm thinking there should be a way to use Commander's 'Date' function to switch them out, but I'm not sure how.

SH4 is so much easier. *sigh*

[frau kaleun]

I'm thinking there should be a way to use Commander's 'Date' function to switch them out, but I'm not sure how.

SH4 is so much easier. *sigh*

But we're talking about switching files in and out of Commander itself, not using Commander to switch them in and out of the game. You can use the Date folders to mod SH3 for a given date range, but the Real Ships Names feature is not part of SH3. As far as I can tell any dates in those folders refer to an SH3 world where Ship Names.cfg doesn't exist and has no function. I don't think you can use them to make Commander mod itself. :cry:

[Sailor Steve]

And to that I have no clue. But you're right - with both files available it wouldn't be that hard to swap them out manually when December 1941 comes.