New community manager in ubisoft forums

[Iron Budokan]

You'll find, sorlim, that the vast majority of people over here are "good people". A lot of good, talented people who really care about sub sims, and one or two whose egg slipped off the toast many years ago. :)

You called, sir? Mr. Egg Off Toast reporting for duty! :salute:

[Arclight]

Seems they're ignoring you Steve. :nope:

Don't worry, I still think you're witty. :salute:But do they like you?

Oh, snap!
(had to say something. Can't let a good joke go unrecognized. :88))

[makman94]

Wow, so much love over here, I should be thinking about proposing that subsim be the official community place for SH games. ;)

Well, I'm back and I see you've been extremely productive. That list looks pretty solid and quite complete from what I've been reading these past couple of weeks.

So now I'll have to match the items on the list with the mods that fix the issues and see how they can be bundled into like a Community Patch.

hi sorlim !

any progress with the 'bosses' ??

[sorlim]

Well, during these past weeks, the list put together by Takeda was forwarded higher and higher by me and also by others.

No reply yet, as explained by Placoderm's signature (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1448797&postcount=42)... :-?

[janh]

What else can you do other than to convey the disappointment with SHV and disagreement with recent Ubi policies back to higher levels? Guess not a lot. You could convey that you get a lot of heat here...

Well, let's hope that higher management echelons care about their disgruntled customers enough to make up by a final, proper patch -- at least.

[sorlim]

As Dan said, I'm another voice in the offices and it can make a difference, although it's not a numbers game.

[THE_MASK]

As Dan said, I'm another voice in the offices and it can make a difference, although it's not a numbers game. I am sure that with the modders work so far and the exposure thru the article in pc gamer mag that sales will increase so as to justify another patch .

[Navarre]

that sales will increase so as to justify another patch .
What will move more likely in very very small amount and in comparison to other sales not change something in mind of Ubisoft.

According to the latest quarterly annual report from Ubisoft, their sales on the PC sector slumped from 20% to 7% in comparison to the previous year.

[Barso]

Thanks Navarre for that info.
That basically cements the future of SH5 and the franchise.
I can now gladly uninstall SH5 and throw it in the bin.
But it's the last ubisoft game I ever buy for my PC and my sons xbox360, even the ubi games that are planned for kinect addon.
I would rather he invested his money elsewhere.
It's sad to see SH5 in this state as I can still remember watching the youtube previews for it and loving how it looked but that's all it does, it looks good.

[Badger Finn]

Wow, so much love over here, I should be thinking about proposing that subsim be the official community place for SH games. ;)

Well, I'm back and I see you've been extremely productive. That list looks pretty solid and quite complete from what I've been reading these past couple of weeks.

So now I'll have to match the items on the list with the mods that fix the issues and see how they can be bundled into like a Community Patch.

October 1942 the Atlantic...

7.00hrs....Radio msg recieved! Convoy sighted grid AK 50. U46

"interesting"

8.30hrs....Radio msg recieved! U-32 intercept convoy, BDU

I can make that in 9 hours at flank! new coarse 30degree north.

CE: Now at requested heading sir!

TCx125

17.00 hrs WO: "Smoke on the horizon!" bearing 290 - cool found it!

17.15: Send Contact - Large convoy heavily escorted grid AK...

To the grid map how many of our boats in contact? mmm 4 + ours and two more racing in at flank! With ten more scattered around the Atlantic Denoted by Simple yellow squares on a Kriegsmarine chart!

18.30 - WO: Submarine sighted! Type VII. Radio msg recieved BDU- U-32 shadow convoy!

Time coarse changes and lets see what happens!

22.00 Radio msg recieved: U-32 - Attack convoy!

Where in position no good for a surface attack radar is around and its way heavily escorted...flank speed new coarse 290 well move in to 5km and dive in front....

The fireworks begin! great stuff its all happening a convoy battle!

....20 years ago - Aces of the Deep! Out of the box no mods no internet no subsim.com...price $80 NZD on a 486 12 meg of ram rig...close to 15 years years of use for that sim...

Still have the manual the map the box and the cd rom...

Classic well presented sub sim with hardly a glitch in a barely 3 d enviroment but the sim/game play was excellent! Theres a bench mark for you to excell UBI!

Imagine the AOD sim play with some of the graphics of now....I can but wish!

1943...Hunter killer groups 18 hours of hell with an elite crew and a holder of the knights cross with swords I dont want to lose this one because DID!

lol great fun eh? if ya into U-boats and the challenge of chess on the high seas! For the thinking person me thinks!

[Shiplord]

Imagine the AOD sim play with some of the graphics of now...
Well, the source code for AOD is now somewhere in the drawers at Activision so that the Ubi developers can learn nothing from. But apparently the 8 AOD programmers were then also much better in terms of AI- and gameplay-programming than today's developers. Today, programming knowledge at Ubisoft went only in colorful moving images and nothing else, best example the next rotten egg, called HAWX2:down:

The Ubisoft games all look the bombastic, but with gameplay they all remain empty on the track. German game magazines already joking about it and call it the Ubisoft disease:har:

[Sailor Steve]

@ Badger Finn: I hate you! I also love you!

I have AOTD on my computer, and sometimes I fire it up and am immediately turned off by the 1994 graphics. I'm a graphics and sound junkie.

Then read a post like yours and have to start all over again, because there is realism and there is realism; and there is still nothing today that competes with the experience you described.

Let's see: SH3 is so much more advanced in every way except for that niggly little item, and yet that item is so important that it makes me pull my hair out. SH4 is even more advanced in the 'feel' department, and yet still doesn't have that all-important wolfpack thing. SH5 is truly amazing graphically, and people who love it rave about the way it looks, and yet you can still only get that particular experience from a sixteen-year-old game? What's wrong with this picture?

[Badger Finn]

Well, the source code for AOD is now somewhere in the drawers at Activision so that the Ubi developers can learn nothing from. But apparently the 8 AOD programmers were then also much better in terms of AI- and gameplay-programming than today's developers. Today, programming knowledge at Ubisoft went only in colorful moving images and nothing else, best example the next rotten egg, called HAWX2:down:

The Ubisoft games all look the bombastic, but with gameplay they all remain empty on the track. German game magazines already joking about it and call it the Ubisoft disease:har:



Always wondered what happened to those guys from Dynamix!

SH3 was the last game I bought. Most games now days are backwards unfinished products from corporations. Im still modding SH3 5 years of modding and my own 2 gig tweak mod looking for that thrill excitment and despair of many years ago...still havnt played a campaign out!

Indeed they are very empty products except for the hard work of the great team of modders and community here at subsim. :up:

[CaptainHaplo]

Welcome Sorlim.

While I fear you are fighting a losing battle, know that as a community that supports and wants games like the SH series to succeed, we are backing you.

If you can get them to remove that blasted DRM - then I can actually buy SH5 and play it..... which I would enjoy. But that is on me personally.

In the meantime - news about what may be fixed in a patch or "community composite project" would be nice.

Regardless of the vitriol you will find elsewhere ( and sometimes here because of decisions the community or individual disagrees with ) - stay positive and know we wish you the best of luck.

[Badger Finn]

@ Badger Finn: I hate you! I also love you!

I have AOTD on my computer, and sometimes I fire it up and am immediately turned off by the 1994 graphics. I'm a graphics and sound junkie.

Then read a post like yours and have to start all over again, because there is realism and there is realism; and there is still nothing today that competes with the experience you described.


Lmao yea another niggly thing is the watch crew in shirts in the middle of winter in the Atlantic! Still looks like SH5 added a helmsman eh? But at what cost back to a scripted campaign and the same old same old glitches. Ive read all the threads followed the story so far...

Same for me Steve the graphics now for AOD are past there date!

Ive got 30 more or so exeriences in that realism genre that i still have in my mind, great fun a real challenge to beat the AI and historical nature of things. It was never about changing the coarse of the war or sinking more ships than Topp it was about survival can you beat the odds? Hard to do...

The great thing with Aces was the flexibility you could zoom around and shoot em up in one off missions or go 100% realism with a true dynaimic campaign and have a very nice historical u-boat simulation, limited yes but it was so good with what was "out of the box"

Let's see: SH3 is so much more advanced in every way except for that niggly little item, and yet that item is so important that it makes me pull my hair out. SH4 is even more advanced in the 'feel' department, and yet still doesn't have that all-important wolfpack thing. SH5 is truly amazing graphically, and people who love it rave about the way it looks, and yet you can still only get that particular experience from a sixteen-year-old game? What's wrong with this picture?


Its kinda baffling...
I really dont get how it can go so backwards its a damn shame! Whats that thread somewhere all the things that are missing .... baffling! I dont get it at all!

Keep up the fight crew many I guess are like me following along but pointless parrot posting whats already been posted a million times.

Gladd you like the convoy encounter! By the way I nailed 4 ships and 1 eel missed the target all manual targeting + that convoy scattered the battle lasted for 3 days with other u-boats coming and going....

:yeah:

[elanaiba]

There's no scripted campaign in SH5.

[Badger Finn]

There's no scripted campaign in SH5.

Curious to what this all this type of posting alluds to then...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171892

Theres some other posts about finding a particular carrier...
Apolgies off thread topic I know!

[Placoderm]

There's no scripted campaign in SH5.

:o

LOL! :har:

Ok...yeah right...whatever you say. :doh:




(nevermind we all play the exact same missions, at the exact same dates, with the exact same requirements, and the exact same targets, each and every time any of us play. Nevermind that if someone here cannot find said targets in said 'dynamic' missions...that eventually someone else on here who has already played that 'non-scripted' mission can tell them exactly when and where to find that target. Yeah...no scripting there at all...)

:nope:

[Arclight]

It is dynamic; same objectives, sure, but different outcomes to those "missions" (think you mean patrols there) and even vastly different conditions during those patrols. If you wish, you can ignore your orders and do just whatever you want: the war will go on without you, but possibly unfold in a different manner.

Laugh at the guy all you want, you're just proving your own ignorance.

[PL_Andrev]

"Dynamic campaign" mean that AT LEAST (thanks elainba) AI reacts on player decision.

When I played SH3 at one mission I attacked the Gibraltar and sunk all merchants at this port. At SH5 I attack small convoy near Gibraltar, after few hours I was hunted by 20 DD!

SH5 has dynamic campaign. Game is not perfect, but very close to it... with mods, of course...
:D

[Badger Finn]

It is dynamic; same objectives, sure, but different outcomes to those "missions" (think you mean patrols there) and even vastly different conditions during those patrols. If you wish, you can ignore your orders and do just whatever you want: the war will go on without you, but possibly unfold in a different manner.

Laugh at the guy all you want, you're just proving your own ignorance.

To my mind thats a script very similair to how SH2 was eventually modded.

SH3-GWX has a more *dynamic* approach. Really rather well done I think. Ive just replayed the same patrol 3 times testing my modded version SH3 from the same start reference (save) and each time has been completly different - excellent since I like surprises! thats what I class/call dynamic!

Arclight I hear what your saying but thats a finite pinned approach no surprises!

**QUOTE** Faamecanic
I do NOT like how the current mission system puts the player into a narrow track and feel it totally destroys the immersiveness of an open game. General guidance (ala SH3 missions) ...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172155&page=2

I tend to think the same way

[Placoderm]

It is dynamic; same objectives, sure, but different outcomes to those "missions" (think you mean patrols there) and even vastly different conditions during those patrols. If you wish, you can ignore your orders and do just whatever you want: the war will go on without you, but possibly unfold in a different manner.

Laugh at the guy all you want, you're just proving your own ignorance.

Arclight, it appears to me that you have no idea what the word "dynamic" means in regards to simulations. This is evidenced in the apparent oblivion that you consider something with the same objectives on each and every replay to be somehow "dynamic".

Falcon 4 had a truly dynamic campaign, as did AOTD, as did Commanche vs Hokum, etc., etc...heck, even Lucasarts' Their Finest Hour and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe had dynamic campaigns. SH5 does not, no matter how much cool-aid one drinks.

Dynamic means that not only does the 'outcome' change, but the objectives themselves change to match the needs of the campaign based on the outcome of the prior mission or missions (or "patrols"). Dynamic means that the player is not bound to a specific tactical situation to overcome a strategic challenge. Dynamic could describe how the ships and convoys that are not tied to the scripted patrols are spawned, but it does not even come close to describing the campaign itself. When you say that we can "ignore your orders and do just whatever you want"...that has nothing to do with the campaign, and at that point the player is just 'tooling around' doing nothing that advances the actual campaign beyond letting time pass. You cannot call that a "dynamic campaign".

Saying that having a different outcome somehow equates to "dynamic" shows how well the developers have numbed the expectations of the average consumer, and the attention deprived players who need their objectives force fed to them. I could use your definition to say that because I can choose to fire or not fire my torpedoes that virtually any campaign would be dynamic...since the outcome would be different. I could also use your definition to say that something as simple as winning or losing is dynamic in itself...since the 'outcome' of winning or losing is 'different'.

As I stated in an earlier thread, SH5 does some things exceptionally well...but calling the campaign anything close to "dynamic' is just misleading to people who do not know better. Ubisoft is to blame for setting that expectation...but considering the source, they are also the ones who billed this as the "most moddable" sub "simulator" ever made. Unfortunately, it is neither easily modded nor much of a true simulator. (it is very pretty, though!)




Lastly, calling me "ignorant" simply because I have a different opinion borders on a personal attack. Be thankful that I do not use my own personal "dynamic" option of contacting the Moderator and asking them to use their dynamic judgement to determine whether the "scripted" rules of this forum have been breached. I would rather just accept that we agree to disagree about our opinions of what dynamic means, without resorting to further namecalling or accusations of ignorance.

:nope:

[THE_MASK]

''Dynamic means that not only does the 'outcome' change, but the objectives themselves change to match the needs of the campaign based on the outcome of the prior mission or missions (or "patrols"). '' So if i had orders to patrol the western approaches and i sank some ships then the future objectives should change , well they do .

[Arclight]

Arclight, it appears to me that you have no idea what the word "dynamic" means in regards to simulations. This is evidenced in the apparent oblivion that you consider something with the same objectives on each and every replay to be somehow "dynamic".

Falcon 4 had a truly dynamic campaign, as did AOTD, as did Commanche vs Hokum, etc., etc...heck, even Lucasarts' Their Finest Hour and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe had dynamic campaigns. SH5 does not, no matter how much cool-aid one drinks.

Dynamic means that not only does the 'outcome' change, but the objectives themselves change to match the needs of the campaign based on the outcome of the prior mission or missions (or "patrols"). Dynamic means that the player is not bound to a specific tactical situation to overcome a strategic challenge. Dynamic could describe how the ships and convoys that are not tied to the scripted patrols are spawned, but it does not even come close to describing the campaign itself. When you say that we can "ignore your orders and do just whatever you want"...that has nothing to do with the campaign, and at that point the player is just 'tooling around' doing nothing that advances the actual campaign beyond letting time pass. You cannot call that a "dynamic campaign".

Saying that having a different outcome somehow equates to "dynamic" shows how well the developers have numbed the expectations of the average consumer, and the attention deprived players who need their objectives force fed to them. I could use your definition to say that because I can choose to fire or not fire my torpedoes that virtually any campaign would be dynamic...since the outcome would be different. I could also use your definition to say that something as simple as winning or losing is dynamic in itself...since the 'outcome' of winning or losing is 'different'.

As I stated in an earlier thread, SH5 does some things exceptionally well...but calling the campaign anything close to "dynamic' is just misleading to people who do not know better. Ubisoft is to blame for setting that expectation...but considering the source, they are also the ones who billed this as the "most moddable" sub "simulator" ever made. Unfortunately, it is neither easily modded nor much of a true simulator. (it is very pretty, though!)




Lastly, calling me "ignorant" simply because I have a different opinion borders on a personal attack. Be thankful that I do not use my own personal "dynamic" option of contacting the Moderator and asking them to use their dynamic judgement to determine whether the "scripted" rules of this forum have been breached. I would rather just accept that we agree to disagree about our opinions of what dynamic means, without resorting to further namecalling or accusations of ignorance.

:nope:
Do what you must, i'm sure they apreciate Elanaiba being ridiculed at least as much as my remark.

I'm perfectly aware of what dynamic means. It seems to me some people just fail to recognize SH5 campaign as such. The single missions that are available; that's linear. The campaign is a far cry from that.

How dynaimc, now that's debatable.

[Arclight]

To my mind thats a script very similair to how SH2 was eventually modded.

SH3-GWX has a more *dynamic* approach. Really rather well done I think. Ive just replayed the same patrol 3 times testing my modded version SH3 from the same start reference (save) and each time has been completly different - excellent since I like surprises! thats what I class/call dynamic!

Arclight I hear what your saying but thats a finite pinned approach no surprises!

**QUOTE** Faamecanic
I do NOT like how the current mission system puts the player into a narrow track and feel it totally destroys the immersiveness of an open game. General guidance (ala SH3 missions) ...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172155&page=2

I tend to think the same way
Like I stated to Placoderm; it's a far cry from linear, closer to dynamic than linear, but it's debatable how dynamic. Bit of a subjective matter, but dynamic it is.

[Placoderm]

''Dynamic means that not only does the 'outcome' change, but the objectives themselves change to match the needs of the campaign based on the outcome of the prior mission or missions (or "patrols"). '' So if i had orders to patrol the western approaches and i sank some ships then the future objectives should change , well they do .

Really?

Wow...

Really?!?

Thats weird...'cause for me, every time I have played through the campaign (I'm on my 3rd time through as we speak) and I am sent to patrol the Western Approaches...and whether I sink "some" ships, or all the ships, or no ships at all...I get the exact same follow up missions that I had in the campaign before. Perhaps my installation is messed up, 'cause if you are getting different and completely unique follow-up missions that are not the same from one campaign to the next...then you are truly playing a totally different game than the one I have.




...Either that, or you did not understand the contextual cause and effect in my statement that you quoted. Nah, couldn't be...

:o

[robbo180265]

Really?

Wow...

Really?!?

Thats weird...'cause for me, every time I have played through the campaign (I'm on my 3rd time through as we speak) and I am sent to patrol the Western Approaches...and whether I sink "some" ships, or all the ships, or no ships at all...I get the exact same follow up missions that I had in the campaign before. Perhaps my installation is messed up, 'cause if you are getting different and completely unique follow-up missions that are not the same from one campaign to the next...then you are truly playing a totally different game than the one I have.




...Either that, or you did not understand the contextual cause and effect in my statement that you quoted. Nah, couldn't be...

:o

Do what you must, i'm sure they apreciate Elanaiba being ridiculed at least as much as my remark.

I'm perfectly aware of what dynamic means. It seems to me some people just fail to recognize SH5 campaign as such. The single missions that are available; that's linear. The campaign is a far cry from that.

How dynamic, now that's debatable.

I've bolded the bit you chose to ignore Placoderm......

[Takeda Shingen]

Placoderm, take it down a notch. You don't need to ridicule everyone who disagrees with you.

The Management

[Lord Justice]

Really?

Wow...

Really?!?

Thats weird...'cause for me, every time I have played through the campaign (I'm on my 3rd time through as we speak) and I am sent to patrol the Western Approaches...and whether I sink "some" ships, or all the ships, or no ships at all...I get the exact same follow up missions that I had in the campaign before. Perhaps my installation is messed up, 'cause if you are getting different and completely unique follow-up missions that are not the same from one campaign to the next...then you are truly playing a totally different game than the one I have.




...Either that, or you did not understand the contextual cause and effect in my statement that you quoted. Nah, couldn't be...

:oRegain your way sir! However provoked by hideous sounding out, i earnestly hope that they may not claim your attention. :stare: Good day.

[karamazovnew]

Placoderm, take a chill pill... What you're saying makes complete sense and I agree, but there's a cloud of aggressive irony that doesn't belong in the picture :D

I'll give an example. I had to sink some warships for a mission, I managed to get a hydro contact on 2 DD's just outside of visual range. I kept tailing them trying to get their attention. Firing my deckgun didn't help. Finally I encountered a merchant. I slammed into with with my gun, not even caring to sink it, I just wanted for those 2 DDs 20 km away to come to the rescue and into my trap. No dice... they never came. I got bored and turned tail. A few minutes later I encountered 2 groups of 1 BB and 10 escorts per each. I crippled the first BB. The other escorts gave up the chase and left the BB alone. As I was finishing him, the second group came by. They sailed right next to the burning victim without a care in the world, until I sank that second BB. They searched for a while and then reformed a circle and went on their merry way... :hmmm:

[Badger Finn]

I guess as always its about perceptions...mine I gues are just to historical and realism based.

Patrolling for a Tonnage war and right place right time targets such as task forces on oppertunity? Hooking up with wolfpacks for convoy battles lasting up to 3 days? plotting positions tracking contacts....

Or fighting destroyers and carriers in endless missions from BDU which well really didnt happen except at the arcade on the 10 cent slot machine 30 years ago!

How odd! Ah well such is life!

[Placoderm]

I've bolded the bit you chose to ignore Placoderm......

I was replying to Sobers' post, not Arclights.




Edit: Regardless, Takeda was correct and I need to tone it down a bit. My earlier comment to Elanaiba was intended as sarcasm, but came across more agressively than I intended. My following comments were no less sarcastic, but should have been a bit less intense. We all have opinions, and none are more valid than others. I am sure that Arclight, Sober, and Elanaiba all may share my interest in this genre, if not my frustration in this game itself. As such, it is best to just agree to disagree...and respect each others opinions.

[robbo180265]

I was replying to Sobers' post, not Arclights.




Edit: Regardless, Takeda was correct and I need to tone it down a bit. My earlier comment to Elanaiba was intended as sarcasm, but came across more agressively than I intended. My following comments were no less sarcastic, but should have been a bit less intense. We all have opinions, and none are more valid than others. I am sure that Arclight, Sober, and Elanaiba all may share my interest in this genre, if not my frustration in this game itself. As such, it is best to just agree to disagree...and respect each others opinions.

Yeah you are right about the quote , although the message Arclight conveyed was the one you maybe missed. Either way that's what I get for posting when straight in from work (and not reading the thread properly) Sorry for any confusion

I wouldn't worry too much matey - we all have off days , Lord knows I've had a few. Difference is that you were able to take a step back and realise what was going on.

For what it's worth you've certainly gained my respect :salute:

[Dowly]

There's no scripted campaign in SH5.

If Dan' get 1€ everytime he has to say this, he would be the richest man in the whole world by now. :haha:

[Takeda Shingen]

Edit: Regardless, Takeda was correct and I need to tone it down a bit. My earlier comment to Elanaiba was intended as sarcasm, but came across more agressively than I intended. My following comments were no less sarcastic, but should have been a bit less intense. We all have opinions, and none are more valid than others. I am sure that Arclight, Sober, and Elanaiba all may share my interest in this genre, if not my frustration in this game itself. As such, it is best to just agree to disagree...and respect each others opinions.

Nah, don't sweat it. You're a good guy and we're lucky to have you here. This was a communication issue. I've done much, much worse in my time here.

[Rip]

If Dan' get 1€ everytime he has to say this, he would be the richest man in the whole world by now. :haha:

I think I would join some others in debating that. I would say missions are not scripted but the campaign in that the same mission objectives always occur and to or from the same dates is a scripted branching path. But to some degree that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The war is something that happened and changing the strategic history of the battlefronts would not make it a better game.

You have certain areas and objectives that the u-boats were used against at certain points in the war. These were not going to change based on the failure or success of a single boat. So there is no chance of getting sent to certain areas until certain dates. Likewise there were times when patrols were stopped in certain areas for various reasons. In a truly dynamic campaign there would be some variation to the strategic decisions concerning deployment of the boats. I don't really think that would make the game any better. The only things that should be dynamic is that if I sink certain warships they should be removed from the order of battle and I am pretty certain that isn't happening. Other than having warships sent to look for you in response to attacks is about all that a single uboat would have on the way things play out anyways.

Just go where you are told and attack what you have been ordered to attack before you are shot.

:|\\

[Dowly]

I have always taken the missions as more of an pointers on where to go, not as something I have to do. :yep:

[Badger Finn]

I would debate it!

@ RIP im not really posting about changing where you go and when thats already know history But I would have thought the ebb and flow of a WWII U-Boat simulation based on the Battle of the Atlantic would have been on the technological and tactics changing as the months and years roll by....

This was what AOD captured what worked a year ago in an attack on merchants wouldnt be so advisable 6 months later...even though as a punter on comp knowing history ahead of time and well it is just game/sim that type of subtle shift made a great sim...imo

For example escorts changing behaviour - in 1939 its pretty disorganised by mid 1943 the first hunter killer groups are forming and roaming around figuring out how there going get you by 1944 they hold most if not all the ace cards....that type of thing

AOD captured that progression of events in higher realism settings

As Salior Steve said a few posts in a reply to me

"Theres realism and then theres Realism"

Good debate chaps!

:salute:

[makman94]

Wow, so much love over here, I should be thinking about proposing that subsim be the official community place for SH games. ;)
.....

oh yes...sorlim....so much love :DL

something like the ''blue lagoon'' movie!

the point is who is playing the role of Brooke Shields...here?

you (ubi) or us ?

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh372/makman94/blue_lagoon.jpg

[Faamecanic]

Like I stated to Placoderm; it's a far cry from linear, closer to dynamic than linear, but it's debatable how dynamic. Bit of a subjective matter, but dynamic it is.

Well said....and I agree it is subjective.

BUT with that said anything that places the player into feeling they succeeded or failed by having to meet specific objectives now confines us to doing exactly what the mission tells us.

Again to me its the historical test.... did Bdu EVER say "you must sink 100,000 tons of shipping" to a Uboat.... no. Did he say "ENGAGE Convoy XXX"...yes.

This is why Im not totally against the mission scripting.... just against the rediculous goals those objects have.

[Faamecanic]

There's no scripted campaign in SH5.

This is where I TOTALLY disagree Dan.

If you DO NOT PASS all the Missions then you face a harder enemy in the future (more DD's and such). In some instances if you do not pass all missions you cannot go onto the next set of missions (like Operation Drumbeat..so I hear, I havent played up that far yet).

I will state one more time what MY opinion is to make SH5 more realistic... its simple really... DO AWAY WITH ALL TONNAGE/CAPITAL SHIP REQUIREMENTS. The only requirement should be to "engage" the enemy. Or if we MUST have tonnage requirements then make them realistic (if every sub captain got 100,000 tons of shipping at the start of the war...the war would have ended in 1941 as England would have had no ships left!!).

[Arclight]

Aye, they should have made it objectives relative to that part of the campaign, not the player specifically.

Now, it's up to you alone to meet that requirement. They should have simulated other subs out on the ocean sinking ships as well, their tonnage going towards the requirement along yours.

To be honest, that's how I look at them now, considering them general goals set forth by dbu, the long-term goals at that point in time. The only thing really missing is the other subs helping out. :hmmm:


Maybe we should just say it's a dynamic campaign within a linear frame; considering you can't change the eventual outcome, but you can affect how it comes to pass and each individual patrol is dynamic/random.

[elanaiba]

We are the prisoners of semantics...

Please compare SH5 to SH2... and let's agree the latter is a scripted campaign and something we don't want to do:
-Each mission is required to be completed in order to progress
-no alternate path for the player to take that
-no freedom to do something else (there was some in SH2 but not enough)

Falcon 4 and Comanche Hokum have true dynamic campaigns, I'm not sure about AOD. We don't have a true dynamic campaign, more like a branching decision campaign (and I'm not talking about the branching of the mini-campaigns).

Much of what is good in the campaign of SH5 is lost because of the presentation. Neither campaign nor its presentation is perfect, but I know the campaign we developed allows modders to build something great ;)

In what way is the campaign "dynamic"
-at tactical level, the AI will react (but thats not really the campaign just AI)
-dynamic rerouting of shipping and patrol missions based on threat zones
-campaign layers and objectives can open up/close based on player achievements. Its a very powerful tool.

Many times people dis the campaign because the AI has many holes, or because the campaign we planned its not complete. And thats a good lesson to learn, maybe focus on less and make sure you complete them, instead of delivering halfway jobs to greatness that feel uncompleted.

Another such example would be the crew abilities which the player was supposed to drag to his command bar and use as shortcuts, but we couldn't finish that either :(

[elanaiba]

The only things that should be dynamic is that if I sink certain warships they should be removed from the order of battle and I am pretty certain that isn't happening.


And I'm pretty sure it is :)

[Navarre]

Much of what is good in the campaign of SH5 is lost because of the presentation. Neither campaign nor its presentation is perfect, but I know the campaign we developed allows modders to build something great ;)

What hypocrisy, that's dammit not the task of the modders but the producers task. We paid for the game and should now ensure to complete it and let the nasty presentation and game design appearing in beautiful light?.

In what world are we living if that is the plan of Ubisoft?

[Arclight]

He admits that they couldn't get it finished in time, and points out that they at least did the best they could to make it as moddable as possible. Everyone makes mistakes, but there are few who will admit to them.

You repay this by attacking him?

[elanaiba]

What hypocrisy, that's dammit not the task of the modders but the producers task. We paid for the game and should now ensure to complete it and let the nasty presentation and game design appearing in beautiful light?.

In what world are we living if that is the plan of Ubisoft?

Sorry if it came out that way, not my intention. What I meant is "ok you may not like the campaign as it is now - I cannot change that. But trust me that the stuff that is under the hood is not a scripted campaign (as people seem to believe). In the future, either a patch or mods can show even more the beauty of the campaign system.

[Navarre]

He admits that they couldn't get it finished in time, and points out that they at least did the best they could to make it as moddable as possible.

Are the SH5 developers, professional developers with years of experience or not? SH5 is not their first project, they should know how the wind blows!

I myself am a project leader in entertainment-development and the entire dev-team is involved in the time and resource planning with the publisher/investor, because only we know what can be realize in a given timeframe and what does not.


Everyone makes mistakes...

Sure, but not make the same mistakes over and over again in every project over the years. At some point you should have learned to be able to estimate whether you can meet a project contract or not.

[John Channing]

If it upsets you this much pehaps a different hobby?

Or at least a different forum to vent your anger on?

JCC

[Alex]

In the future, either a patch or mods can show even more the beauty of the campaign system.

:hmm2: :hmm2: :hmm2: :hmm2:

[Nisgeis]

I myself am a project leader in entertainment-development and the entire dev-team is involved in the time and resource planning with the publisher/investor, because only we know what can be realize in a given timeframe and what does not.

Nice. What products have you worked on as project manager? Any links?

[Arclight]

Are the SH5 developers, professional developers with years of experience or not? SH5 is not their first project, they should know how the wind blows!

I myself am a project leader in entertainment-development and the entire dev-team is involved in the time and resource planning with the publisher/investor, because only we know what can be realize in a given timeframe and what does not.

Sure, but not make the same mistakes over and over again in every project over the years. At some point you should have learned to be able to estimate whether you can meet a project contract or not.
That's not my point. He comes here as a person, not as "Ubisoft". (correct me if I'm wrong here)

[robbo180265]

Are the SH5 developers, professional developers with years of experience or not? SH5 is not their first project, they should know how the wind blows!

I myself am a project leader in entertainment-development and the entire dev-team is involved in the time and resource planning with the publisher/investor, because only we know what can be realize in a given timeframe and what does not.


Sure, but not make the same mistakes over and over again in every project over the years. At some point you should have learned to be able to estimate whether you can meet a project contract or not.


I think you need to take a step back and calm down a little.

elanaiba comes to this forum (as I understand it) as a respected member of our community. He has worked with the modders helping them get over some of the hurdles they've encountered, and I dare say his help will be invaluable in the months to come.

Other than hot air - what have you contributed?

[Moeceefus]

Whats up with Sorlim? I haven't seen him in a while now.

[Placoderm]

In the future, either a patch or mods can show even more the beauty of the campaign system.

That would be great news, Dan, if ever it came to pass...and it would go a long way to salvaging this game to eventually become a classic.

What we need though, are the tools and open software that will allow us to do so. Right now, some of our biggest hurdles are the incomplete toolset, the needless file encription, and the proprietary nature of many of the core elements that currently prevent us from making any real improvements other than a few cursory graphics enhancements and UI tweaks. Ubisoft seems to want to have the modders come in and fix things...but they are not willing to provide us the trust to do so in any meaningful fashion. It is like hiring a maid to clean your house, but not allowing her inside...at best all she could do is wash the windows and sweep the driveway.

Without the trust and the tools from Ubisoft, all that can really ever be expected is for us to put an even higher polish on an already shiny turd.


:hmmm:

[Seeadler]

It is like hiring a maid to clean your house, but not allowing her inside...at best all she could do is wash the windows and sweep the driveway.
Perhaps that's Ubisoft's plan?
With clean windows, they can at last look out of their offices to the outskirts of Paris and a clean driveway suggests a successful company. :rotfl2:

[THE_MASK]

Whats up with Sorlim? I haven't seen him in a while now.He has a sor lim .

[Arclight]

:haha:

Oh dear. :roll:

Admit it, it took you al day to think of that one. :O:

[Lord Justice]

I think you need to take a step back and calm down a little.
Is it not ones duty to reload, and spend ordanance ? (sound out). :03: That said, some are so ragged and undisciplined, they do indeed aim reckless, accompanied with a wearied mind forget to take stalk. :yep: Bye your leave. :salute:

[Méo]

Nice. What products have you worked on as project manager? Any links?

Still no reply...

looks like some folks here really hate your questions. ;)

[janh]

We are the prisoners of semantics...

Please compare SH5 to SH2... and let's agree the latter is a scripted campaign and something we don't want to do:
-Each mission is required to be completed in order to progress
-no alternate path for the player to take that
-no freedom to do something else (there was some in SH2 but not enough)

Falcon 4 and Comanche Hokum have true dynamic campaigns, I'm not sure about AOD. We don't have a true dynamic campaign, more like a branching decision campaign (and I'm not talking about the branching of the mini-campaigns).

Much of what is good in the campaign of SH5 is lost because of the presentation. Neither campaign nor its presentation is perfect, but I know the campaign we developed allows modders to build something great ;)

In what way is the campaign "dynamic"
-at tactical level, the AI will react (but thats not really the campaign just AI)
-dynamic rerouting of shipping and patrol missions based on threat zones
-campaign layers and objectives can open up/close based on player achievements. Its a very powerful tool.

Many times people dis the campaign because the AI has many holes, or because the campaign we planned its not complete. And thats a good lesson to learn, maybe focus on less and make sure you complete them, instead of delivering halfway jobs to greatness that feel uncompleted.

Another such example would be the crew abilities which the player was supposed to drag to his command bar and use as shortcuts, but we couldn't finish that either :(

Hmmh, sounds like there is still some potential hidden there. "dynamic rerouting of shipping and patrol missions based on threat zones" and "campaign layers and objectives can open up/close based on player achievements" may indeed have been good ideas to generate some kind of dynamics with strategic AI response. When the surface ship mod for SHIII came out, I liked that idea a lot (like Fighting Steel II, or TF1942), but it was pretty obvious that unless AI could be programmed to assign BB escorts, aircover etc. to convoys based on needs, and route BB/CA/CL/CV forces to intercept and hunt the German capital ships, it would remain pointless. But maybe with SHV one could really modd this into a surface ship sim? Maybe even with gun stations and walkable interior?

However, all this potential appears to be well hidden and not that obvious. Maybe besides pushing for a further patch, we should try to convince Elanaiba/Ubisoft to give the community an explicity modding manual that describes model building, AI scripting, campaign and mission scripting explicity? I kind of think of the ARMA2 online wiki for config.cpp and function modding... Maybe that could then also be expanded with the next sequel of SH, if there will be any? For ARMA/OFP this turned out to be one of the really big strengths and selling points. Could it become the same for SH?

[makman94]

Wow, so much love over here, I should be thinking about proposing that subsim be the official community place for SH games. ;)

Well, I'm back and I see you've been extremely productive. That list looks pretty solid and quite complete from what I've been reading these past couple of weeks.

So now I'll have to match the items on the list with the mods that fix the issues and see how they can be bundled into like a Community Patch.

hi sorlim !

any progress with the 'bosses' ??

[Keef Kavannah]

[QUOTE=makman94;1464519]
Oh, a storm is threat'ning
My very life today
If I don't get some shelter
Oh yeah, I'm gonna fade away

War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away

Ooh, see the fire is sweepin'
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost its way

War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away

Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away

Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away

Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away

The floods is threat'ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or I'm gonna fade away

War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
I tell you love, sister, it's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
Kiss away, kiss away
(R.Stones, Gimmie Shelter)

[THE_MASK]

If i had to guess i would say there is no team working on sh5 atm .

[MILLANDSON]

If i had to guess i would say there is no team working on sh5 atm .

A news article has already been posted on this thread that specifically states that there is no team working on SH5 at the moment, due to them being needed in other projects.

[deathwest]

Dam the torpedo men, pick up your guns and fight the Buggers.
We shall fight them on the ramparts, shoot them out of our houses,
and make them run from our streets. Then, if the generals
send reinforcement so much the better, the Sergeant at arms
will find it an easier fight and if no reinforcement are sent then the
Noisy Prey front must stand on its own as the community has always had done.

Together we can win, alone we lose.

I for one am not ready to give up the ship.

Just some words of encouragement, if only for myself, after reading the whole post here and the one on ubi forums it was sounding as if the town may be lost to the nasty Buggers on a forgotten front.:nope:

[JScones]

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6194/sorlim.jpg

[Badger Finn]

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6194/sorlim.jpg

:woot:

Its dormant over at the ubi forum to! SSDD

[Jimbuna]

LOL :DL

[Placoderm]

LOL!!

JScones, that pic is awesome!


:salute:

[severniae]

So..... Did anyone ever hear from Sorlim again?

Shame, he seemed really good aswell, so I guess Ubi have truly abandoned us!

Looking in the official Ubi forum he's moved onto HAWX now - no activity for SH5 in a while.

Still, didn't expect much more anyway!

[Takeda Shingen]

So..... Did anyone ever hear from Sorlim again?

Shame, he seemed really good aswell, so I guess Ubi have truly abandoned us!

Looking in the official Ubi forum he's moved onto HAWX now - no activity for SH5 in a while.

Still, didn't expect much more anyway!

Indeed. It would appear that we have our answer about a final SH5 patch after all.

[Shiplord]

Looking in the official Ubi forum he's moved onto HAWX now - no activity for SH5 in a while.
Even there, the ubi_officials will disappear soon, if the HAWX2 reviews continue as bad as before:D

[Madox58]

Indeed. It would appear that we have our answer about a final SH5 patch after all.

Not to be sarcastic but..............
What was everyones first clues?
Could it be the actual Devs being pulled to another project?
Pretty much crap for the last patch?
A ringer sweet talking everyone and spreading Love and Joy?
Maybe some of the actual Devs stateing they are no longer on the SH5 project?
:hmmm:

Good Lord!
I have faith in the Devs IF they were allowed to finish the job.
But all the signs say one thing to me..............

We do it ourselves or :damn:

I'm not in the mod thing for glory and I'm one of the most prolific Wise Guys here abouts.
I have a habit of rubbing people the wrong way at times.
(Well maybe most times!)
But I do somethings VERY well!
I teach and push others to learn.
I work hard at a simple hobby so others can get the rewards.
I get no pay except for the pleasure I find in figureing things out.

And I'm just one compared to all the other Great Modders out there!

So Ubi dumped us?
Who ever felt they would do less?
The time to show our stuff is now.
(Well it started at release actually)

[janh]

He made no promises, and actually he stated clearly that he could only commit to communicate our problems up the chain. So from the outset his appearance did not mean that there would be anything major, only that there was another ace that could play out well some day.

The only thing I find a bit disappointing is that he never showed up again. He could at least have given these forums a peek once in a while. Oh well, seems with Elaniaba help the majority of the modders are making good progress, and even a 43-45 campaign is in sight.

[Wolfling04]

@ Privateer I don't feel that you were being sarcastic, just stating the obvious truth that some do not want to see. I totally agree, its time for us to fix the game.

I started my campaign work because I was fed up with the game ending in mid 43, to me that's just deplorable and I want to change it.

@janh Well said, It was a glimmer of hope when Sorlim announced he was our voice to Ubi, but after watching the forums over there and seeing all the negativity posted over there, I don't think I would want to come back either.

[Jimbuna]

Indeed. It would appear that we have our answer about a final SH5 patch after all.

Not to be sarcastic but..............
What was everyones first clues?
Could it be the actual Devs being pulled to another project?
Pretty much crap for the last patch?
A ringer sweet talking everyone and spreading Love and Joy?
Maybe some of the actual Devs stateing they are no longer on the SH5 project?
:hmmm:

Good Lord!
I have faith in the Devs IF they were allowed to finish the job.
But all the signs say one thing to me..............

We do it ourselves or :damn:

I'm not in the mod thing for glory and I'm one of the most prolific Wise Guys here abouts.
I have a habit of rubbing people the wrong way at times.
(Well maybe most times!)
But I do somethings VERY well!
I teach and push others to learn.
I work hard at a simple hobby so others can get the rewards.
I get no pay except for the pleasure I find in figureing things out.

And I'm just one compared to all the other Great Modders out there!

So Ubi dumped us?
Who ever felt they would do less?
The time to show our stuff is now.
(Well it started at release actually)

I've purposely kept my powder dry but must admit to almost being resigned to the worst for about a month now :yep:

[Bothersome]

Hope is the hardest thing to give up.

[Madox58]

Hope is the hardest thing to give up.

Depending on Hope leads to disappointment.
(I've been hopeing to hit the lottery for nearly 40 years!)
:haha:
One must work towards a Goal incase Hope lets you down.
You will still reach your Goal.
Just not as fast maybe.

[Nufsed]

Just a thought, but in the event of UBI dropping support (i.e. the drm server, presumably making SH5 totally unplayable) is there a backup plan?:hmmm:

[Yosarian]

Just a thought, but in the event of UBI dropping support (i.e. the drm server, presumably making SH5 totally unplayable) is there a backup plan?:hmmm:
There are still enough Ubisoft DRM games with actively high support by Ubisoft and the DRM system will be extended by Ubisoft said the CEO. Therefore, there is no serious intention to shut down the servers just because only one game with very low sales receives no more support.

[Wolfling04]

As far as I know, Ubi has already announced they will deactivate the DRM upon their decision to officially not support the game anymore.

[StandingCow]

LoL sorlim didn't last long.

[janh]

It was a glimmer of hope when Sorlim announced he was our voice to Ubi, but after watching the forums over there and seeing all the negativity posted over there, I don't think I would want to come back either.

I'd say the past 3 months here at subsim were actually quite civil, especially if you go back to the weeks around the release date. That time I it seemed to be fitting that Ubi was a French company... with are revolution against it's (DRM) government forming here and in diverse other gamer's forums. I could almost image the burning Bastille with the Ubi company logo on top... Very french...

[Wolfling04]

I'd say the past 3 months here at subsim were actually quite civil, especially if you go back to the weeks around the release date. That time I it seemed to be fitting that Ubi was a French company... with are revolution against it's (DRM) government forming here and in diverse other gamer's forums. I could almost image the burning Bastille with the Ubi company logo on top... Very french...


I meant all the negativity over at the Ubi forums.:03:

[Madox58]

I'd imagine the beating he took in all the forums has left him with a Sore Limb or two.

Now he can't type.
:har:

[Wolfling04]

I'd imagine the beating he took in all the forums has left him with a Sore Limb or two.

Now he can't type.
:har:


:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Good one :up:

[robbo180265]

I'd imagine the beating he took in all the forums has left him with a Sore Limb or two.

Now he can't type.
:har:

:har:

Sor-lim.....Love it:rotfl2:

[Takeda Shingen]

That is one funny sig, robbo. :up:

[robbo180265]

That is one funny sig, robbo. :up:

Why thankyou kind sir.

It kind of evolved on the UBI forums and I thought it would give people a laugh here too.

[Jimbuna]

I'd imagine the beating he took in all the forums has left him with a Sore Limb or two.

Now he can't type.
:har:

LOL :DL