[REQ] BUY the rights on SH5 on our own?!

[urfisch]

The whole concept is not, what we wanted to play. I never played this game longer than a few minutes. Too many mistakes and missing features. And i guess, many also sign to this more or less. The sparks do not strike.

SO, what to do???

-

I had an interesting thought this day. What about buying the open code from the sh-series with the power of community?

How many people would give some money for that? Cause if we had the open source, we could develop the series as to our needs and sell the new created stuff as an addon, or sh6.

There could be several scenarios possible, to get hand on the code. Maybe buy it in one piece, maybe just a share of it. In this case, ubisoft could benefit from the power of our skilled modders here and get a share from the sold copies of an community developed addon.

The question is, how many people would take part in such an action? With money, or with manpower.

:arrgh!:

[Dowly]

Went with 'No, I'm not interested' because this never gonna happen. Enough with these "give us SDK!", "Let's buy the code!", "Let's kidnap their family pets and ask [X] for ransom".

Take it like the dirty bitch you are for buying the game, on your knees with wang in your mouth. (Yes, I bought it, so I'm sucking too.. sigh...)

[The General]

Lol, that was 'colorful' Dowly.

[Thomen]

I voted no.

As for reasoning:

I'd preferr to see at least some outline of gameplan before shelling out some money, and have some questions answered. ;)

Especially stuff like:

Who will hold the rights after it was purchased with community money? Who is managing the money?
Can we expect a return for the investment?
Do we (the community and investors), have some say as to what is happening with the money and the code/rights?

[Sailor Steve]

Good points, Thomen. I have imagined what I would do if I actually had several million dollars to spend, and buying the rights to the Silent Hunter name would not be among them.

I would instead hire my own team and start from scratch, developing all the things I thought should be there one at a time. But I would certainly throw a lot of money in that direction.

If I had any. :sunny:

[robbo180265]

I voted no

Ask me again in a couple of years time , when SH5 has had enough time to be developed.

[scratch81]

Voted No, not interested.

Yes i agree the game is lacking in many aspects, but like the others before, rights management would be a serious issue. Realistically, I'd rather spend my hard earned money in an effort to continue to preserve and maintain real world monuments, like USS Texas, and Seawolf Park, not software tools that will be outdated and obsolete in a year or three.

[jdkbph]

I voted no. Not because I don't want to see SH5 fixed. But because the idea of making a financial investment in a community managed project is a non-starter. It's tough enough it seems when the only investment is time and emotion... add money to the mix and it's potentially explosive.

[Sonarman]

This did actually happen with Akella, a group of modders got together and formed a company and Akella allowed them access to the source code of Age of Pirates, they went on to develop "City of Abandoned Ships" which Akella then marketed. The code for City of the abandoned ships has now been given to the talented modders over at Pirates Ahoy to see what they can make of it. Sadly I don't think Ubi are as flexible as Akella maybe we should go after the PT-Boats source!.

[THE_MASK]

Fantasy land , but the best we can hope for is for a group to get together and make a mega mod and ubi to patch out the drm in the future .

[Pablo]

Well,

Paradox gave a modder's group access to the source code for Hearts of Iron II; the group produced the favorably reviewed Arsenal of Democracy, which Paradox released earlier this year.

I'm not sure Ubisoft is ready to make the same sort of deal, though. Now, if I had a few hundred million dollars in the bank I might shell out some money for the SH 5 code, but I don't.

Pablo

[Reece]

Didn't vote!:hmmm: However if Subsim was to acquire the rights and there was no DRM then I would pay as much as $200.:yep:
Not gonna happen though!:cry:

[ShoCkwaVe]

whatever happens It would at the very least be nice to know a trusted source has obtained the source code just in case ubisoft falls off the map

Its happened before like DID F22 for example..

wouldn't bother me in the slightest considering they have idiots in the wrong places
making really bad choices that effect us all without even considering us their customers
or even the games best interests..

heh, all they seem to care about is the greenbacks ..nothing more
notice the poll - I didnt buy sh5 because.. Just makes me sick :shifty:

Moders would probably do a better job anyways especially when sailors
@ hearts are involved & not money pushing deadlines.

<edit> I would rather own the rights to sh4 or even sh3
if that where possible then were talking about something worth talking about.

[Bubblehead1980]

Went with 'No, I'm not interested' because this never gonna happen. Enough with these "give us SDK!", "Let's buy the code!", "Let's kidnap their family pets and ask [X] for ransom".

Take it like the dirty bitch you are for buying the game, on your knees with wang in your mouth. (Yes, I bought it, so I'm sucking too.. sigh...)

:har: Fins have a great sense of humor

[urfisch]

i definately miss more fantasy here...everbodys wining, but only some actually move.

:down:

in times of everybodys connection to the internet, a project like this would not be that unrealistic though. only, if ubi doesnt want to support such an idea, this would be the rip stone on the project. but money wasnt the main case...as with a passioned group of people and a nice concept, also "business angels" might be interested in supporting such an idea.

even it seems, only some can imagine, all things are possible! but maybe time hasnt come yet, where people/customers are ready for such "global" ideas, or got a lack of self-confidence.

:know:

[Méo]

Interesting idea. :hmmm:

Of course when you talk about money, there always gonna have some dissent.

At least he's trying to be constructive.

He has something else to say than:

''I'm never gonna buy this game, this is the worst Silent hunter ever! (but I never played it)''. - kind of silliness

I salute your initiative Urfisch. :salute:

I didn't vote yet, but would need to know a lot more before making any donation.

[BIGREG]

:nope: Meo !

Is a good game ! ( all rooms are in 3D , the crew as many possibility to annimated and more ) but UBI at not finish them :damn: , i think the best to buy is a license for the granny editor ! with this the community can make news models and annimations

Sorry for my English :know:

[Méo]

:nope: Meo !

Is a good game ! ( all rooms are in 3D , the crew as many possibility to annimated and more ) but UBI at not finish them :damn: , i think the best to buy is a license for the granny editor ! with this the community can make news models and annimations

Sorry for my English :know:

Je vais peut-être mieux comprendre ce que tu veux dire si t'écris en français...

[Méo]

:nope: Meo !

Btw, I never said he had the best idea, I said that at least he's suggesting something instead of continuously bashing the game which leads nowhere.

What's wrong with making a suggestion :06:

[BIGREG]

Desolé pour nos amis anglais

donc , je te reponds en Français !

Pour moi SH5 a un super potentiel (salles en 3D ,graphiques superbes ,annimations possible de l'equipage et j'en passe ! le truc c'est qu'UBI$OFT ne la pas fini et a " bloqué " l'edition des fichiers .gr2 ( fichier qui remplace les . DAT qui sert a combiner les autres datas ) d'ou mon message ,non pas pour acheter la license de SH5 mais ,une license de Granny SDK -> 12500 $ :o ,mais qui permettrai de modifier et de rajouter pleins de choses ( sous-marins,annimations,accés direct via la souris dans le soum et plus .... )

Ps:Voila , j'ai peut etre mal compris vos messages ,moi et l'anglais ca fait 2 :know:

Si la communauté veut investir dans La license de Granny SDK ,je suis OK :03: par contre je ne payerais pas pour des addon's

[Méo]

Ps:Voila , j'ai peut etre mal compris ton message ,moi et l'anglais ca fait 2 :know:

Si la communauté veut investir dans La license de Granny SDK ,je suis OK :03:

C'est OK. :cool:

[BIGREG]

http://grytcg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p0ZJtKGC1FRwtdZIwlbCfrGPUy3Y28Yb_cDL0qDottyUxOvH 0vApmzb5Y5P86J0DU4Nn2I0i655QW-DX5YKllApJ1IywrGIay/120(4).jpg
I am for only ONE Silent Hunter , the best possible ! For all !

[Jimbuna]

I've voted no because I don't ever see it becoming a reality.

May well change my opinion though...subject to future developments.

[krashkart]

I didn't vote as this will likely never come to fruition. A better alternative would be an independent project staffed by a dedicated team, to build a simulator from the keel up. It's being done with 'Danger from the Deep', which has been in development for some time.

[thfeu58]

From me no casting of votes! :down:
Whom SH5 does not like, for that there is SH4, or the quite far developed SH3.
If this does not reach, nevertheless, it stays empty to everybody to develop own submarine simulation.
For what then buy the SDK from UBISoft?
For all those to which the StockSH5 offers not enough there are many tools lend a hand independently.
Since the release only a good 3 months have passed.
The Community has not become really warm yet sometimes.

[McHibbins]

Earning money with bull**** again ??? Never !!! ----> No

[nikimcbee]

Maybe if they had a full time, committed team, with the money to back it. Having been on "that" side of things, it's not as fun as it sounds when the money runs out.:shifty:

I'd want to see the team, the design plan, etc.

[krashkart]

I'd want to see the team, the design plan, etc.


+1 ... and someone to explain the finer points to me in layman's terms (me != programmer)

[nikimcbee]

+1 ... and someone to explain the finer points to me in layman's terms (me != programmer)

If it was well funded to make it worth people's time and had a committed team, this could be very interesting.

I like sonarman's idea and buy the rights to the pt-boat game.:hmmm:

[urfisch]

I didn't vote as this will likely never come to fruition. A better alternative would be an independent project staffed by a dedicated team, to build a simulator from the keel up. It's being done with 'Danger from the Deep', which has been in development for some time.

DFTD is crap, sorry for these honest words. Its been a nice idea, but the engine is extremly old fashioned and the team seems to be very small. The progress on this game lasts for over 4 years now. I guess, THIS will never be finished or reach a status of an honorable gameplay.

Anyway. Think big!

As you cant think big, it seems as if many of you are also not able to think in "virtual" scenarios. Let me explain the idea a bit more detailed:

- Community votes/forms a task force, with all needed positions of a working dev-team (graphics, 3d, 2d, coding, administration, etc. - the skills are already available here!)

- The Silent TF™ sets up a concept of how the game should be optimized and enhanced. Together with all community members, of all available communities for the SH-series.

- The idea reaches UBI, (best case: )the TF meets with ubi officials

- (worst case: ) concept needs to be revised, or we meet with AKELLA

- Together with UBI/Akella all ideas are collected and a basis of further cooperation is beeing discussed.

- An official company with legal form is founded. Work is taking place via the net.

- TF collects money, from community members and other shareholders

- The TF gets the SDK (and the code from SH6 or PTBoats) and starts working on...

...WHATEVER YOU WANTED!

:rock:

This is visionary, this is constructive and this might be a successful way in creating the sim, we ever wanted. With all features we are waiting for since WOLFPACK™ or Silent Service™

[Thomen]

/Devils advocate on

DFTD is crap, sorry for these honest words. Its been a nice idea, but the engine is extremly old fashioned and the team seems to be very small. The progress on this game lasts for over 4 years now. I guess, THIS will never be finished or reach a status of an honorable gameplay.


Well, one reason for lacking progress may be because they are lacking funds and time.


Anyway. Think big!

As you cant think big, it seems as if many of you are also not able to think in "virtual" scenarios. Let me explain the idea a bit more detailed:

- Community votes/forms a task force, with all needed positions of a working dev-team (graphics, 3d, 2d, coding, administration, etc. - the skills are already available here!)


Nothing wrong with this, except see below..


- The Silent TF™ sets up a concept of how the game should be optimized and enhanced. Together with all community members, of all available communities for the SH-series.



Now it gets tricky. "All community members, of all communities..."
That is going to be a ginormous bitch fest. Lets say you have 100 people in a community (just to name a number), be prepared to hear 150 different opinons on what should happen or be done. Also be prepared, to deal with members/shareholders that will be get really pissy if the TF does not put the focus where they think it should be and threaten to withhold further support.


- The idea reaches UBI, (best case: )the TF meets with ubi officials


And what are you going to offer them for an IP that is still on the market?
And what guarantees are there, that they just don't take our ideas and react on them on their own?


- (worst case: ) concept needs to be revised, or we meet with AKELLA

- Together with UBI/Akella all ideas are collected and a basis of further cooperation is beeing discussed.


See above


- An official company with legal form is founded. Work is taking place via the net.

That's going to be interesting, especially when it come to the legalities and ownership. Not to mention tax laws and employment laws.


- The TF gets the SDK (and the code from SH6 or PTBoats) and starts working on...

...WHATEVER YOU WANTED!

:rock:


Should the TF/Company/Community/whatever get hold of the SDK in an agreement with UBI/Akella, you can bet, there will be a clause limiting the usage of said SDK to certain projects.


This is visionary, this is constructive and this might be a successful way in creating the sim, we ever wanted. With all features we are waiting for since WOLFPACK™ or Silent Service™

Instead of throwing more money down Ubi's throat, you could come up with an idea to heighten the awareness and support for one of the community projects, such as DFTD, which according to your words, is crap. ;)

/off

Don't get me wrong.. I am all for a newer, better, shinier and functional sim. But this has nothing to do with lacking imagination or thinking too "small". :03:

[John Channing]

Not even sure why DFTD is even being discussed.

There is enough raw potential within Silent Hunter 5 to make the Subsim of anyone's dreams. Remember.. everything that was done with SH3 to bring it up to legendary status can be done with SH5 because all of the basis for SH3 GWX still exists within SH5, plus a whole lot of other untapped potential.

What is needed is time and, ironically, Ubisoft to officially abandon the project. Then you will see people really start to examine the potential in SH5.

From the little I have seen Sh5 is 10 times the canvas that Sh3 was.

JCC

[Jimbuna]

Not even sure why DFTD is even being discussed.

There is enough raw potential within Silent Hunter 5 to make the Subsim of anyone's dreams. Remember.. everything that was done with SH3 to bring it up to legendary status can be done with SH5 because all of the basis for SH3 GWX still exists within SH5, plus a whole lot of other untapped potential.

What is needed is time and, ironically, Ubisoft to officially abandon the project. Then you will see people really start to examine the potential in SH5.

From the little I have seen Sh5 is 10 times the canvas that Sh3 was.

JCC

Agreed....the million dollar question has to be...

Will SH5 keep enough of the modding community interested for a long enough period until such potential developments become reality?

I certainly hope so.

[The General]

There is enough raw potential within Silent Hunter 5 to make the Subsim of anyone's dreams. JCCThe day I see Subnets and Mines in SH5, deployed as they should be, is the day I'll agree with you.

[John Channing]

Just a matter of someone who cares enough about it to learn how to get it done (and not wait for other people, who have their own passions to persue, to do it for them...)

JCC

[Gerald]

and play,but there are to many fail an no feeling,so I vote no.

[Ducimus]

I had an interesting thought this day. What about buying the open code from the sh-series with the power of community?

To get the code open, my guess is you'd have to buy the intellectual property from Ubisoft. That has to cost in the millions considering this is ubisoft were talking about. They won't let it go for cheap regardless if its a popular title or not. Your never going to raise enough money to buy the IP from ubisoft.

http://episthemologie.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/reality.jpg

[Navarre]

To get the code open, my guess is you'd have to buy the intellectual property from Ubisoft.
And the developer licence of Bink Video, Granny 3D and Quazal Technologies is needed, otherwise the code won't compile/link;)

[TheBeast]

Since we are dreaming, here is my dream...

What would SH5 be like if it was a 24/7 MMORPG SIM in real time no TC. Each sub with up to 6 live players and the 6 players spread accross the globe so your boat is crewed 24/7. A World's Server Lobby (Forum) where you apply for active service. If your boat is sunk, you must reapply for active service and everyone on all servers knows you were sunk.
Each Sub with built in VOIP or at a minimum a built in chat that translates all text you receive to your native language.
Players waiting for a commision could work for the BdU or COMSUBPAC while going through training.
A AI smart enough to avoid detection, follow currently designated course and possibly even attack without human interaction in case someone is not available when the Sonarman finds a contact and it is a priority target.
A game that will PM you by email or text message your cell phone with status reports or call your beeper in emergency. Maybe you could even reply to the report issueing basic commands (Shadow Contact, Close on Contact, Evade Contact, etc.)
World Severs "LIMITED" to Historical Submarines entry into the War, fate yet undetermined as you are in command.
A game where MOD's must be approved and can only be actived via online connection.
A game where EVERYONE see your unique custom paint scheme and branding.
A game that cost little to buy, where profits come from Monthly Account Subscriptions.

[kiwi_2005]

Why would Ubisoft sell the code, even if they did it wouldn't be cheap :).

[JScones]

Will SH5 keep enough of the modding community interested for a long enough period until such potential developments become reality?

I certainly hope so.
Not even that. More like will Ubisoft socialise their future intentions soon enough so that modders don't move on because of the ongoing uncertainty over official support for the game (ie "will they / won't they?").

[Nisgeis]

http://episthemologie.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/reality.jpg


He's using the wrong controller. Substituting the mouse and keyboard for a sniper rifle would make that game much more interesting.

[SteelViking]

He's using the wrong controller. Substituting the mouse and keyboard for a sniper rifle would make that game much more interesting.

Good going on a sniper kitty reference.:yeah:

P.S. I hope some people know about sniper kitty or else this statement is going to seem really weird:haha:

[severniae]

Instead of trying to mass community buy the SH sourcecode. Which even if they ever gave you it, you'd be tied into a deal where you never released it for sale and they would probably still technically 'own' anything you write. Why not use the power of the community to raise funds to begin a small development company and write our own perfect subsim? I mean, your literally talking hundreds of thousands of pounds/dollars to buy Ubi's code, why not make our own better one?

I personally would never, ever donate to fund buying the source from ubi, it would be a dead investment. However, I think I probably would happily part with my money to help start a subsim.com naval game development company!

Just my two cents.

Sev.

[urfisch]

However, I think I probably would happily part with my money to help start a subsim.com naval game development company!

Just my two cents.

Sev.

Even that seems to most people here impossible...although this would be the best thing ever happened to subsim games of the future.

[PL_Andrev]

Why SH5?
Cheaper solution is source of Enigma: Rising Tide.
Game is old, but have good waves, good weather, control of single euipment, can be played as DD vs SUB and DD vs DD...
Do you need more?

(Today I ask Neal about source code to cancelled E:RT)

'Danger of the Deep' is not to so bad too, but developers do not have many manpower to develop this game...

[krashkart]

DFTD is crap, sorry for these honest words. Its been a nice idea, but the engine is extremly old fashioned and the team seems to be very small. The progress on this game lasts for over 4 years now. I guess, THIS will never be finished or reach a status of an honorable gameplay.

DFTD doesn't run on either of my video cards, but I thought I would point it out. ;)

This is visionary, this is constructive and this might be a successful way in creating the sim, we ever wanted. With all features we are waiting for since WOLFPACK™ or Silent Service™

Sure, sure, it's visionary... perhaps even brilliant and foolhardy. But you forgot one thing:

As you cant think big

R.e.s.p.e.c.t. :nope: Everybody deserves the basics, urfisch; even my small-minded, dim-witted self. You have lost my respect.

I don't think this idea of yours will fly, urfisch. That doesn't mean I think small, it simply means that I think your idea has very little chance (if any) of succeeding. :-?

[urfisch]

Its one thing, not to believe in an idea...and another, not beeing able, to think big. thats right...im sorry for the general judgement.

:yep:

[the_tyrant]

why don't we start from scratch?
just like all the wonderful open source projects we see
Open source projects work fine, just look at linux
so we just create an open source simulator, so we start off by working together to create an engine. Than we split up to crate our different simulators.
With that engine, people can create different simulators. One day we might see sub simulators, flight simulators, ship simulators all based on the same engine.
and since they all use the same engine, we can link these games up to create the most epic game ever.

This is possible, since there has to be millions of hardcore simulation fans worldwide

[Navarre]

why don't we start from scratch?
...
This is possible, since there has to be millions of hardcore simulation fans worldwide
It will not work!
If there are so many talented modders, programmers, hardcore fans in this community, why has an open source project like DFTD so much problems since years to find programmers, graphic designers or in general project supporters?

[Madox58]

Open Source projects like this usually fail because someone lacks the
drive to keep those interested, interested.

Just as Mod Teams can fall apart.
In Team bickering, discontent, and such?
You need a strong leader smart enuff to do what must be done.
You can be the worlds greatest coder, with the best idea ever.
But if you can not manage all the hard heads and such?
You'll fail.
DFTD seems to lack a strong leader to rally around.

[Anvart]

"Kindergarten" ... without babysitters...

[McHibbins]

"Kindergarten" ... without babysitters...

Maybe we can offer you a job ?

[armin]

i voted for 25 bucks but i think the sh5 is in so baad shape that sh4 and sh3 are still way better

[urfisch]

any more discussion on that? seems, as if nearly 60% would invest something into a project like this.