does RSRDC missions jive with TMO missions?

[I'm goin' down]

I have been playing TMO 1.9 and 2.0 with RSRDC. Virtually every message from Sub Command announces Jap ships at a location other than where my boat is located. I am off the coast of Japan and there are messages about convoys, etc. near the Solomons, Guam, Peilieu, the Slot, etc. I have finally decided to try TMO without RSRDC to see if I get any action besides a million friggin' Jap zeroes hounding my boat like a swarm of African bees. Maybe the two mods don't jive in terms of sending the boats to areas of heavy enemy ship concentrations, or maybe the messages are purely random--I don't know.

[Zero Niner]

RSRDC overwrites the TMO mission/campaign files if I'm not mistaken. That's why RSRDC is installed after TMO.
It's rare that I'm in a position to intercept the ships that the radio messages point out.
I too found the number of enemy aircraft in TMO irritating and spoiling my enjoyment of the game. There's a mod by Webster (can't recall the name) that tones it down. I'm using it and find that it's a vast improvement. You may want to give it a shot.

[I'm goin' down]

Webster's mod is the Better Airplanes for 1.5. You need it if you use RSRDC with 2.0, unless you like lots of aircraft attacks. I do not know if you need it for 2.0 standing alone.

I think RSRDC may spawn more aircraft than does 2.0 standing alone. I just started a mission in mid 1942 and already crossed paths with a Jap freighter and an American warship, and I was using 2.0 without RSRDC. No airplanes yet! 2.0 sans RSRDC may be the answer.

Alternatively, I might try RSRDC with 2.0 and request assignment to the Asiatic Fleet. That may put me closer to the action.

Who knows? Combining mods can screw things up sometimes.

My mod selection is getting pretty sparse with 2.0. It includes TMO2.0, SCAF for TMO 1.9, TMO1.9 interior overhaul for Gato's, TMO Stock Gramaphone, TMO More Merchant Traffic, TBT filter (for night vision), Barbarina Fooskin Combo Custom, EZ Plot V1.0, and TGT Dials to PK Fix (i.e. the Easy Aob mod.) The ones in bold are the important ones. I think SCAF may already be incorporated into 2.0, If so, it is unnecessary.

I haven't activated Max Optics 4. I think Ducimus included it in 2.0.

[John Channing]

Webster's mod is the Better Airplanes for 1.5. You need it if you use RSRDC with 2.0, unless you like lots of aircraft attacks. I do not know if you need it for 2.0 standing alone.



Any idea where to find it?

JCC

[Nisgeis]

Any idea where to find it?

JCC

I think IGD's talking about this one:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=473

[John Channing]

Sweet! I shelved the later versions of TMO because of the air patrols. Hopefully this will help.

JCC

[I'm goin' down]

Nisgeis' citation to Webster's download is the one I was referring to.:up:

[lurker_hlb3]

I have finally decided to try TMO without RSRDC to see if I get any action besides a million friggin' Jap zeroes hounding my boat like a swarm of African bees.


For you and "other" who have recently started "crying me a river" about aircraft generation why don't you provide some valid feed back i.e

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1212077&postcount=1

Also the files related to IJN aircraft location and launch rate has "not" changed since March 2009.


Also

Webster's mod is the Better Airplanes for 1.5.


Effective "trashes" all the historically accurate location and aircraft type in RSRDC

[Nisgeis]

Now I feel naughty for even posting in this thread.

[JoeCorrado]

For you and "other" who have recently started "crying me a river" about aircraft generation why don't you provide some valid feed back i.e

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1212077&postcount=1

Also the files related to IJN aircraft location and launch rate has "not" changed since March 2009.


Also




Effective "trashes" all the historically accurate location and aircraft type in RSRDC

I for one have no problems with the aircraft location; if you will think about it, the air patrols tend to be heavier around the shipping lanes. So... if you are ducking from air patrols, you might also consider that they are patrolling there for a reason. To make it inconvenient for you to be there.

I ALWAYS mark the map to record aircraft location/direction... and my premise holds true- these patrols will be heaviest near shipping routes. Use the patrols as a road map to your own success if it makes you feel better. The more planes in an area, the better I feel about patrolling there.

If you have to, stay submerged and LISTEN during daylight hours and surface to charge batteries at night- when you are safe from air patrols. Your surface radar will detect inbound planes at twice the distance that they would be able to sight your boat visually anyway, even in good visibility.

ALSO, for every outbound plane, you can expect the same plane to show up on it's inbound leg. EXPECT it, and you won't be disappointed, you also won't be surprised.

If these planes will not break the 5 mile radius surrounding your sub, you will certainly be safe from them. At 5 miles, there is slight chance of detection, the closer to a direct over flight of your sub, the greater the threat.

Aircraft are not really much of a hindrance to you so far as completing your patrols. What they are, is a realistic and historically accurate obstacle to success that had to be dealt with. Believe it or not, the Japanese are LOOKING for YOU. Just like they did in WW2... sorry if it seems inconvenient.

Be careful, be patient and you will be fine. Be fool hearty, be impatient... and you will suffer for it.

That is just the way it was. Enjoy the game with a bit of realistic impediments put in your way, or just play shoot the fish in the barrel. Whichever you enjoy more.

I will stick with the RSRDC version and take my chances at outsmarting the Jap air patrols.

Thanks Lurker. Between you and Duci, you've hit the mark pretty much dead on. I'll bet the old commanders of the day complained about the Jap air patrols even more than we did. :up:

[I'm goin' down]

For you and "other" who have recently started "crying me a river" about aircraft generation why don't you provide some valid feed back i.e
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1212077&postcount=1
Also the files related to IJN aircraft location and launch rate has "not" changed since March 2009.
Also
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm goin' down http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1421898#post1421898)
Webster's mod is the Better Airplanes for 1.5.

Effective "trashes" all the historically accurate location and aircraft type in RSRDC


I could never figure out why I saw so many planes. It never occurred to me before yesterday that it could be the result of the 1.9/2.0 and RSRDC mods operating together. So, I am trying 2.0 without RSRDC to see if that reduces the numbers of aircraft. I did complain to Ducimus previously, and the used Webster's Better Air Patrols to alleviate the situation, but that was when I was playing with RSRDC. Maybe its me, but I saw lots of airplanes-too many for my sake-and very few conveys or task forces. All the messages re those were for the Solomans, Truk, Pelielu, Guadalcanal, etc.; whereas I was sailing from Midway, but not near any of those locations. I did not intend to be critical of RSRDC mod. I like the different start dates and the attempt to hit some of the major battles like Midway, but I did not find enough major IJN units and was constantly dealing with aircraft. Maybe because it is combined with RSRDC. I would have let you know, but I assumed it was Ducimus' mod that spawned the planes, and it very well might have been, although he said the number of planes should not have been as bad as I said it was. I will see, as I play 2.0 standing alone, without RSRDC. If 2.0 spawns as many aircraft (or more) and I do not see many major IJN convoys or warships, then I will have been mistaken on my hunch. I do not know enough to guess whether each mod standing alone creates no issue with the number of planes, or whether the problem arises by virtue of the fact that there are too many when you use them in tandem (i.e. together.)

By the way, I always assumed that RSRDC was made to be used with TMO. I assume is can be used as a stand alone mod. Is that correct?

Follow-up: Just read lurker's post re reporting issues, etc. The problem here is that I did not have any idea that the plane issue was caused by RSRDC used with TMO. In fact, if there is a problem, when I combine the mods again (if I ever do), I will make a point of counting the number of aircraft attacks, the date and the location, per his request. I am not going to set up the mods just for that purpose, as I have had my fill for awhile. Certainly, if TMO 2.0 spawns and many, I will say something before my lower lip hits the water line.

[lurker_hlb3]

I could never figure out why I saw so many planes.

To set the record strait so you don't have to "assume" any more, is that RSRDC whether install on top of "stock ( RSRDC_SH15_v550 ) , RFB ( RSRDC_RFB_v575) or TMO (RSRDC_TMO_v502) generates 100% of all Air, Surface, and Sub-Surface contacts.

The location and generation rate for air/naval units has been researched for historical accuracy.

As I said before in this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1212077&postcount=1, provide me accurate details of your claim and then I will look into it

[I'm goin' down]

If I resume using RSRDC, I will happily do so. For now, however, I will play TMO 2.0 without it. If some others have the same experience, maybe they will report what they encounter. My concern besides planes, was that I was not running into convoys and task forces very often, and the messages for intercepts were not meant for my boat as they were for locations too far from the potential action. Again, I did not know that RSRDC controlled these issues (or some of them), or that you had posted instructions on how to address issues. I followed the TMO thread but never really looked at the RSRDC thread, which was unfortunate, especially if their is something out of whack that I could have alerted you to.

[tomoose]

I'm using TMO2.0 with RSRD and don't consider the number of planes a problem at all.
As I've mentioned before, the first thing I do for each mission (I'm currently operating out of Midway) is draw 600mile radius circles centerd on Tokyo and Iwo Jima. This is my tripwire or 'boundary' on my map. I can comfortably TC from Midway to just outside these circles without getting any aircraft bugging me at all. Once inside these ranges however, I pay attention to every radar contact as I am in enemy dominated territory. At a guess I'd say one or two aircraft contacts a day and which I get ready to crash dive but not all of the contacts come my way.
Using TC may give the impression you're constantly under air intercept whereas without TC it would take ages between contacts.

As to the fleet-wide messages indicating convoys or TFs in various locations other than mine. I find those realistic enough. I check my map, if it's not within my power to get there in time then the message is logged and ignored, simple as that. Obviously some other skipper who is closer will react and call in his intentions etc.
:salute:

[I'm goin' down]

TF=Task Force

TC=???

[lurker_hlb3]

TC=???

Time Compression

[I'm goin' down]

I have to acknowledge that the comment above re TC is on target (no pun intended.) I did not take that into account when considering whether there were too many aircraft. Without TC, there would be far, far less, and I assume they would not pose a problem. The flip side is that it would take four years to complete a career! I guess I am stuck with both mods as is, as I do not see a way to circumvent TC unless I use Webster's Better Air Patrols. I have to think about whether I want to reactivate his mod.

Lurker, my apologies for not considering TC. It did not occur to me. TC is the culprit in my case, it appears.:hmmm:

[tomoose]

I'll apologize in turn for assuming everybody knows the acronyms, LOL.:salute::D
If you prefer to keep things "speeded up" so to speak, here's a suggestion.

If you get a radar contact, check your surface search radar, if nothing there then you know it's an aircraft. Use time compression at NO MORE than 64 and if an aircraft pops up you will get the "aircraft spotted" warning which is USUALLY time enough to crash dive (just don't mess around). Once you crash dive you can use TC underwater for a speeded up hour or so (watch your batteries) then surface. If, on the other hand, after a few minutes at 64 you don't get the warning then the aircraft hasn't come your way and you can bump up the TC to whatever speed you want and carry on.

I use the above method once in a while when I'm not in the mood for a long game. It works fairly well.:up:

[Armistead]

You never have to be away from the action is. For the most part I can do my patrols, but why docked just pay attention to where they say the action is by the movie clips stating what's going on. You don't even have to cheat history. Before every major battle or campaign the movies give details of where they'e at and where they think the enemy is coming from.
The bug is when you load you get a patrol zone far from the action, so I ignore it until I'm ready...Course you can always cheat history and study
where things were and many times you'll find them.

Hopefully the plane traffic will get fixed eventually in RSRD. I know I asked about it, but got no reponse. It is still about the same as stock in many areas, but I try to stay away from them. I guess I've gotten to where I know where to hunt and stay away from mass planes. In bad areas I just stay dived all day.

It would be nice if the RSRD version for TMO used TMO settings for planes.
I like the hard settings of TMO's planes.

Even with the planes, RSRD is a must for me. Nothing beats the corrected traffic, so I deal with the planes.

[tomoose]

Armistead;
I respectfully disagree. Getting a patrol zone "far from the action" is not a bug in my book. It's just part of the game and IMHO realistic. If I get a patrol which turns out to be in a quiet area then I'll still follow orders but move closer to known shipping lanes close to my patrol zone.
If I understand your post then you are using the 'movies' as your orders and disregarding your patrol orders??:hmmm:

[I'm goin' down]

Movies? What movies are you talking about? (I watched Barney and it did not help one bit!)

[I'm goin' down]

I put the air search radar in the raised position. What does that do? Does it allow the map contact to show the plane at a longer distance than when the radar isn't raised?

I encountered tons and tons of planes in '42 near Truk. Ducimus has reworked the mod so the subs are more vulnerable to damage, and the aircraft got me again. I did the submerge/surface technique to avoid them. That slowed the game down, but I was living with it and my boat surviving. However, for all of the planes I never encountered a Jap boat! And the planes killed me --- again!

[JoeCorrado]

Raising the air search radar antenna allows you radar to work at periscope depth. No planes are likely to spot you at a range of greater than 5 miles so if you draw a circle around your position with a 5 mile radius and the plane that your radar picked up at about 12 miles or so, will not enter the 5 mile radius, you are free to surface and continue on your way.

No need to crash dive, you have plenty of time in most case... unless your radar operator is asleep at the switch.

The intro movies do not play in TMO, I remember something like that from SH3 though... visit the pub or something and chat with the other commanders?

GUNFIRE RECEIVED AT CLOSE QUARTERS FROM 13mm AA GUN. And I mean REALLY close quarters! US NAVY estimates that a 13mm round could puncture the pressure hull at a range of up to 100 yards if it contacted a deflection of up to 30 degrees, and up to 300 yards at zero deflection.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/WDR/WDR58/img/WDR58-13-4.jpg

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/WDR/WDR58/img/WDR58-13-5.jpg

If you are at a range of 300 yards or less, you are vulnerable from the most used aircraft mounted anti-aircraft weapon employed by Japan during WW2-

===========

Armed merchants were more likely to use the type 1 which was a heavier version of the type 92 7.7 mm AA machine gun. Maximum effective range against armored targets was very limited, although when employed against personnel or aircraft, it was effective at up to 850 yards.

Against your boat- I believe that Duci in TMO over compensated in his effort to make merchants more dangerous in TMO- but they are now more dangerous in TMO than they were is reality. And not all ships were defended in any way during the early war.

Unless you are practically touching hulls, the 7.7 mm version was not an effective weapon against armored targets- remember that AIRCRAFT were LIGHTLY ARMORED (if armored at all) compared to the pressure hull of a sub, and even a 13mm version was useless in inflicting any significant damage at over 500 yards against a sub - against the subs crew- who were caught on deck, well of course THAT was a different matter entirely.

Look familiar? 7.7 mm heavy machine gun type 1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Japanesetype1heavymachinegun.JPG/300px-Japanesetype1heavymachinegun.JPG http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Navy_Type_92_flexible.JPG/800px-Navy_Type_92_flexible.JPG

And the type 92 heavy machine gun- 7.7mm WIDELY USED BY JAPANESE NAVY in WW2

[Roger Dodger]

I'll apologize in turn for assuming everybody knows the acronyms, LOL.:salute::D
If you prefer to keep things "speeded up" so to speak, here's a suggestion.

If you get a radar contact, check your surface search radar, if nothing there then you know it's an aircraft. Use time compression at NO MORE than 64 and if an aircraft pops up you will get the "aircraft spotted" warning which is USUALLY time enough to crash dive (just don't mess around). Once you crash dive you can use TC underwater for a speeded up hour or so (watch your batteries) then surface. If, on the other hand, after a few minutes at 64 you don't get the warning then the aircraft hasn't come your way and you can bump up the TC to whatever speed you want and carry on.

I use the above method once in a while when I'm not in the mood for a long game. It works fairly well.:up:

I've noticed that if RADAR spots aircraft, the TC meter drops to 1X TC. If RADAR spots ships, the TC meter drops to 8X TC. I routinely cruise my patrol area at 2/3 ahead and 256 or 512 TC. Base to area at standard ahead and 512 or 1024 TC, same with area to area. Even dropping to 1X for aircraft, you don't have much time to hit the 'C' key.

TMO + RSRDC - - - > Don't leave home without them. :yeah:

God bless Electric Boat

[I'm goin' down]

Okay. I have satisfied myself about the airplanes. Thei "extraordinary" numbers of aircrat appear to be attributable to and directly related to TC and boat location. High TC in an area where aircraft patrol likely means lots of plan in a short time span.

While trying to figure this out, I read most of the Readmes for RSRDC. Now I know why many seem to hold this mod in high regard. It is an impressive undertaking.

My difficulty was that I lacked a sufficent understanding of the dynamic inter relationship between airplane encounters and TC. The simple solutions to avoid too many aircraft in a short time span are (1) to play with slower TC in areas where aircraft patrol, or (2) use Webster's Better Air Patrols and, as you note in the later scenario, sacrafice realism. For now, I have decided to and have already reinstalled RSRDC with TMO2.0.

[Capt. Crane]

Using TMO2 plus RSRDC v502 Taking a Gar class straight out of Pearl right after Dec 7. Assigned Anti-Shipping Ops in the Japan Luzon Straits - Singapore.

Patrolling off the SE coast of Kyushu, have been attacked by a G4M Betty which apparently crashed in it's attack run. There was a survivor in the water but apparently, he didnt wanna be rescued.
Happened again as I cruised North closer to the convoy lane. As I crash Dived, I looked up from the Con and saw the Betty go into it's dive (!). Went external to see the Boat Dive and I saw the Betty drop it's load, load explode (missed) and saw the Betty do weird flips and twists mid air, and then fall into the sea..

Explosion seems to be damaging attacking Med Engine Planes.