[REQ] manual dive controlls

[oscar19681]

is it possible to add manual conrtol of the dive planes , compressed air and buancy in sh-5 ? This has been requested by players ever since sh2 came out but the devs for some reason never did anything with the requests. So it this even possible to mod? I never seen anything like this for the previous titles so i guess its hard-coded . But hey correct me if i,m wrong.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know if it's possible to add them to SH5, as it wasn't possible to do so in previous titles. On the other hand, the devs have said that with this one much more is possible with this version, so maybe someday...

That said, not one of those things is something that was ever done by the captain, nor was it possible for any one man to do all those different things at the same time, which is what was required to get the job done properly. One would have to man two different dive planes, and the pumps, and the rudder actuator, all at the same time.

To me that's like asking for the ability to sit at the radio desk and fine-tune the incoming signal, and have every message come through in morse so you had to decode them. Something a radioman is trained for, not the captain.

[tonschk]

In the newest version of the Silent Hunter series the UBI developers have already added the water weaves in three dimension ,walking all along the interior " and the exterior " of the sub , Full Dynamic Shadows, animated water flooding inside the compartements ,working engine arms ,etc etc etc and even the hot soup inside the kitchen, yes I know SH5 is not yet perfect but for 20 bucks you cannot pretend the Whole Earth and also the Moon , for the dive plane control and independent control of the left and right engines you must wait for Silent Hunter 6

.

[Stormfly]

...but they also removed important simulation features, just to bring this to casual gamers... i bet this gamers are bored within 5 minutes :yawn: and angry about bugs in about 10 :yeah:

...one positive word, there are sounds for damage reports

[oscar19681]

In the newest version of the Silent Hunter series the UBI developers have already added the water weaves in three dimension ,walking all along the interior " and the exterior " of the sub , Full Dynamic Shadows, animated water flooding inside the compartements ,working engine arms ,etc etc etc and even the hot soup inside the kitchen, yes I know SH5 is not yet perfect but for 20 bucks you cannot pretend the Whole Earth and also the Moon , for the dive plane control and independent control of the left and right engines you must wait for Silent Hunter 6

.

I would actually be willing to wait for silent hunter 6. But one of the reasons i would like to see this in sh-5 is because there never aint gonna be no silent hunter 6

[BIGREG]

I have try to make workable levers ,but to make a workable dial with the mouse cursor of elements in the sub ,that need 3D mouse Mask in the .GR2 data :damn:

[Ducimus]

I have try to make workable levers ,but to make a workable dial with the mouse cursor of elements in the sub ,that need 3D mouse Mask in the .GR2 data :damn:

I must say, that GR2 proprietary format, has really taken a big wet juicy bite out of SH5's hindquarters.

[Brodsward]

I don't know if it's possible to add them to SH5, as it wasn't possible to do so in previous titles. On the other hand, the devs have said that with this one much more is possible with this version, so maybe someday...

That said, not one of those things is something that was ever done by the captain, nor was it possible for any one man to do all those different things at the same time, which is what was required to get the job done properly. One would have to man two different dive planes, and the pumps, and the rudder actuator, all at the same time.

To me that's like asking for the ability to sit at the radio desk and fine-tune the incoming signal, and have every message come through in morse so you had to decode them. Something a radioman is trained for, not the captain.

your wrong there the Captain Knows and was trained in every position on the ship from Navigation raidio Moris code fire control ect ect thats how he went from ensin to captain learning all that stuff

[Shadriss]

your wrong there the Captain Knows and was trained in every position on the ship from Navigation raidio Moris code fire control ect ect thats how he went from ensin to captain learning all that stuff

Entirely almost correct. And just to set the stage for my reply, understand I currently serve as a US Navy Submariner... sonar specifically.

The Skipper is trained in how the gear IN GENERAL operates. The Navy has ratings for a reason - they are tech specialists. You could not go to the Skipper, and ask him to help make repairs to the UQN-1 Fathometer, cause he would look right back at you and say, "That's YOUR job." The unspoken side to that is, "...and I have NO IDEA how to even troubleshoot that thing."

Your contention that officers begin getting trained on the gear from their butterbar days (Ensign, for you non-military types) is sort of correct. They ARE placed in positions of authority. As an example, my Division Officer on board is a LTJG... and for the Sonar Division, that's almost over qualified. Usually, we GET an Ensign.

When we get a new one assigned, we tell him straight up that he has exactly two jobs: attend meetings and sign paperwork where we tell him to. He has NO CLUE how sonar works. In fact, many of them refer to reading a modern sonar passive broadband display as "reading the matrix".

Now, all that said, that's today. In WWII, the system was slightly different. With the systems being simpler, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a stretch to say that the Skipper, the XO, or the ENG might be able to operate the systems... but not anywhere as proficiently as the men trained to do it. So much less so, in fact, that it doesn't even bear thinking on.

Now, I can see where someone who hasn't had to operate a submarine in single-stick mode (Dive Planes, Rudder, and Fairwater Planes from a single control station) would think that doing so in a SIM would be neat... I tell you as someone who had to do it for qualifications that there is no way on EARTH I would consider doing so routinely. Just keeping the boat on course by itself is challenge enough - remember that there is set and drift, currents, fronts, and eddies to take into account. Now add to that keeping on depth (which at PD is a nightmare in single stick...) and you can see that this just isnt a good idea.

So really... no. Just... no. As a sonarman underway, I'm more than content to allow the guys who are trained to do that job do it. I'll stay in my sonar shack and track contacts. As for the skipper... what good is it to be the king if you do all the work anyhow?

STS1/SS

[Sailor Steve]

your wrong there the Captain Knows and was trained in every position on the ship from Navigation raidio Moris code fire control ect ect thats how he went from ensin to captain learning all that stuff
How do you know the captain knew morse code? I was a radioman, and our captain only came into the radio shack for a weekly visit. He may have known it, but he didn't busy himself with sending and recieving messages. That wasn't his job.

Yes, the captain could probably operate the dive planes. But in those days one man sat at the fore plane wheel and another at the aft plane wheel, and a third at the steering position, and another one or two at the pump controls. It's not like a modern sub where one man has an aircraft-style yoke and can actually drive the boat. And even then it's not the captain's job.

Engines? In most navies, especially the British and German navies, the engineering department was a separate set of specialists, and they were outside the command structure. The lowliest sub would take command before the chief engineer, and no command officer was trained in engineering. Even if he were, you, as a gamer, seem to want the captain to control the engines, steering, dive planes and everything else, and all at the same time. Sorry, but I'm not wrong. The captain is the captain, and he can't do everything at once, or he wouldn't need a crew.

[Brodsward]

Entirely almost correct. And just to set the stage for my reply, understand I currently serve as a US Navy Submariner... sonar specifically.

The Skipper is trained in how the gear IN GENERAL operates. The Navy has ratings for a reason - they are tech specialists. You could not go to the Skipper, and ask him to help make repairs to the UQN-1 Fathometer, cause he would look right back at you and say, "That's YOUR job." The unspoken side to that is, "...and I have NO IDEA how to even troubleshoot that thing."

Your contention that officers begin getting trained on the gear from their butterbar days (Ensign, for you non-military types) is sort of correct. They ARE placed in positions of authority. As an example, my Division Officer on board is a LTJG... and for the Sonar Division, that's almost over qualified. Usually, we GET an Ensign.

When we get a new one assigned, we tell him straight up that he has exactly two jobs: attend meetings and sign paperwork where we tell him to. He has NO CLUE how sonar works. In fact, many of them refer to reading a modern sonar passive broadband display as "reading the matrix".

Now, all that said, that's today. In WWII, the system was slightly different. With the systems being simpler, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a stretch to say that the Skipper, the XO, or the ENG might be able to operate the systems... but not anywhere as proficiently as the men trained to do it. So much less so, in fact, that it doesn't even bear thinking on.

Now, I can see where someone who hasn't had to operate a submarine in single-stick mode (Dive Planes, Rudder, and Fairwater Planes from a single control station) would think that doing so in a SIM would be neat... I tell you as someone who had to do it for qualifications that there is no way on EARTH I would consider doing so routinely. Just keeping the boat on course by itself is challenge enough - remember that there is set and drift, currents, fronts, and eddies to take into account. Now add to that keeping on depth (which at PD is a nightmare in single stick...) and you can see that this just isnt a good idea.

So really... no. Just... no. As a sonarman underway, I'm more than content to allow the guys who are trained to do that job do it. I'll stay in my sonar shack and track contacts. As for the skipper... what good is it to be the king if you do all the work anyhow?

STS1/SS
well all i can say about that is Thats the Differance Between a captain and a Great Captain

[Brodsward]

How do you know the captain knew morse code? I was a radioman, and our captain only came into the radio shack for a weekly visit. He may have known it, but he didn't busy himself with sending and recieving messages. That wasn't his job.

Yes, the captain could probably operate the dive planes. But in those days one man sat at the fore plane wheel and another at the aft plane wheel, and a third at the steering position, and another one or two at the pump controls. It's not like a modern sub where one man has an aircraft-style yoke and can actually drive the boat. And even then it's not the captain's job.

Engines? In most navies, especially the British and German navies, the engineering department was a separate set of specialists, and they were outside the command structure. The lowliest sub would take command before the chief engineer, and no command officer was trained in engineering. Even if he were, you, as a gamer, seem to want the captain to control the engines, steering, dive planes and everything else, and all at the same time. Sorry, but I'm not wrong. The captain is the captain, and he can't do everything at once, or he wouldn't need a crew.
when i was on Board my Sub Uss Seahorse SSN 669 the Captain Kew Moris Cose as well as the Fire control Navigation ect ect i was a QM and he cought some of my mistakes and showed my how to do it right and then Had the Nav Officer help me further to ensure i didnt make the same mistake twice For those that dont know a QM is a Quartermaster whitch is incharge of navigation also we all had to know moris code that was one of the quals we had to know to get our Dalfins

[Brodsward]

How do you know the captain knew morse code? I was a radioman, and our captain only came into the radio shack for a weekly visit. He may have known it, but he didn't busy himself with sending and recieving messages. That wasn't his job.

Yes, the captain could probably operate the dive planes. But in those days one man sat at the fore plane wheel and another at the aft plane wheel, and a third at the steering position, and another one or two at the pump controls. It's not like a modern sub where one man has an aircraft-style yoke and can actually drive the boat. And even then it's not the captain's job.

Engines? In most navies, especially the British and German navies, the engineering department was a separate set of specialists, and they were outside the command structure. The lowliest sub would take command before the chief engineer, and no command officer was trained in engineering. Even if he were, you, as a gamer, seem to want the captain to control the engines, steering, dive planes and everything else, and all at the same time. Sorry, but I'm not wrong. The captain is the captain, and he can't do everything at once, or he wouldn't need a crew.

also in those days the crews were Smaller than they are today and every body new more than there rateing you had to as it is today yur live depends on it as well as there life depends on you knowing your job as well as some one elces if you were a sonar man and were off duty and got cought in the torpedo room during an emergance you would have to know what to do as an inlisted you are required to know atleast 2 stations be that sonar and damage control or some other position they want you to know what to do say if one of the helms men was injured and you were called to fill in you would have to step up and do that persons job granted as an enlisted you are not required to learn it all but you will have to learn the basics and in todays navy you wouldnt have to learn say Nuc's and inorder to get your dalfins you will have to know the basics of each station atleast thats the way it was when i was in

[Shadriss]

First Brod... hats off to you. Those 637 boats were pretty small... larger than an '88 for crew amenities, granted, but still small.

That said, I still have to disagree with you. My statements still stand valid - you know as well as I do that officers are not specialists. Nor are they intended to be. Saying that the difference between "a good captain and a great captain" is his ability to do everyone else's job is disingenuous at best. You use the example of a CO making corrections to the chart... that, I would expect a skipper to be intimately familiar with. As the CO, he is directly responsible for the safe navigation of the ship. He should (and will, if he wants to make O-6) be very knowledgeable in that field.

That doesn't translate over (directly) to the sticks. While he MAY, as a JO, have stood DOOW (Diving Officer of the Watch for you non-mil types), he would be familiar only with the general operations of those planes, not the specifics. And, honestly, since about the only officers that stand that watch EVER are CHOPs (Supply Officers...) that aren't even in Line Officer commissions, even that is unlikely. Again, the skipper relies on junior ratings for the physical operation of the sticks during all operations, a senior first or CPO at the BCP for pump and ballasting operations, and another senior CPO as the DOOW.

Those stations are separate watch-stations FOR A REASON. In no universe than I can concieve will the CO go to the OOD and request permission to relieve the inboard station, normal power, normal indications, steering course 100, ordered depth 160 feet. And the same applies to the COW, the DOOW, or the outboard station.

I'm not sure if you did your 20 or not, and really, i guess it doesnt matter, but it sounds to me like you want to relive your life aboard the boat again... if that's really the case, I know of at least one list out there in the interwebs just chock full of suggestions to help you do it. Don't ask to take over everyone else's job on the ship - why bring them if you dont let them act as they need to?

STS1/SS