[REL] 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit

[I'm goin' down]

First, tap the equal button to get thesonarman to announce the course of your sub. Second, take the course reading announced by the sonarman after inputting range and bearing from your new mod. Put both courses into the Solution Solver program, and it will show you the Aob.

However, I assume that once the sonar man announces the target's course, you can simply read the Aob off the ship's dials on the TDC screen on the left pull out. If so, then why use the Solution Solver. Once I get the Aob, then I set the Aob dial on the stadimeter and send it to the TDC. (hey, I may be understanding this after all!?)

[Nisgeis]

Exactly, enter the target course into the TDC, instead of doing some unnecessary conversion (extra steps lead to errors). Have a look at the imminent TDC tutorial.

[John Channing]

Exactly, enter the target course into the TDC, instead of doing some unnecessary conversion (extra steps lead to errors). Have a look at the imminent TDC tutorial.

Oooooh... "imminent". I'm all atingle! When's it coming?


Wait... what?





JCC

[I'm goin' down]

I get credit for being so stupid the tutorial now will cover everything!! (I hope...)

[John Channing]

First, tap the equal button to get thesonarman to announce the course of your sub. Second, take the course reading announced by the sonarman after inputting range and bearing from your new mod. Put both courses into the Solution Solver program, and it will show you the Aob.

However, I assume that once the sonar man announces the target's course, you can simply read the Aob off the ship's dials on the TDC screen on the left pull out. If so, then why use the Solution Solver. Once I get the Aob, then I set the Aob dial on the stadimeter and send it to the TDC. (hey, I may be understanding this after all!?)

You don't have to worry too much about AOB with this mod. You will focus more on putting the contact's correct courst into the TDC.

It's just a different way of thinking about it.

JCC

[sergei]

Take another look at my plots IGD.
You can see after a while I pretty much nailed the targets course.
Then I used the course I had plotted as the value I put into the TDC.
I didn't try and figure out what the AOB was. I just turned the dial until the ships course matched the one I had plotted. The TDC lets you do this.

[I'm goin' down]

that is one way. a more precise way would be to read at the Aob on the ships' dials screen on the TDC (the screen on the left), and it will tell you the exact Aob if you move the cursor over it.

Wait till you try to get the course of the closest ship in a large convoy/task force. I finally gave up, because I was either misreading it, or the convoy/task force was moving away from me. I was painstakingly slow, because trying to plot over 15,000 yds. is a pain in the ass. The screen is not large enough to do it quickly.

[razark]

When measuring the range on the radar scope, should I be measuring to the leading edge, trailing edge, or center of the pip?

I am currently tracking a long range target with map contacts on, and it seems that my ranges are coming in a bit long.

[Nisgeis]

that is one way. a more precise way would be to read at the Aob on the ships' dials screen on the TDC (the screen on the left), and it will tell you the exact Aob if you move the cursor over it.

That will tell you the exact AoB that you yourself entered, so that doesn't really tell you anything, unless the PK is running, in which case the course won't change, so there's no need to keep working out what the AoB is. AoB changes relatively, course does not as it is absolute. Entering the course on the 3D TDC will allow you to enter the precise course, without doing any intermediate steps (which add a step for error to be introduced and increas workload). Once you've worked out the course, you know what the course is.

When measuring the range on the radar scope, should I be measuring to the leading edge, trailing edge, or center of the pip?

Centre. The pips are about 400 yards wide, so there shouldn't be too much variation.

[razark]

Centre. The pips are about 400 yards wide, so there shouldn't be too much variation.
Thanks. Could just be the inaccuracy of the game tools, plus the long range, as well as lack of practice.

That last target was heading directly away from me, so I let it go. This time, I'm tracking one through fog and rain. Should be interesting.

[Nisgeis]

Have all three people using this mod upgraded to the latest version?

Version 1.02: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1901

[Nisgeis]

Have all three people using this mod upgraded to the latest version?

Version 1.02: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1901

[Cpt.Kool]

Four. But the game crashes. I'm going to reinstall, because i like this mod very much. BTW. I'm on SHIV 1.4....

[John Channing]

Have all three people using this mod upgraded to the latest version?

Version 1.02: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1901


Yup!

JCC

[Nisgeis]

Four. But the game crashes. I'm going to reinstall, because i like this mod very much. BTW. I'm on SHIV 1.4....

Welcome aboard! I'm not sure what will happen if you use it with 1.4.

[CH3NO2]

Well, I'm chomping at the bit to try this mod..... just waiting on the RFB version. SOON????? lol

[I'm goin' down]

I hate to ask these again but...
I have two highly accurate range and bearing readings;
I have sent the two viable readings to the TDC, and clicked my lovely little watch icon;
The sonarman has joyously announced the target's course and speed;
I gracefully enable Mr. PK;
My readings are good ones, too, which is a rarity for me. And I see the faint silouette of a gigantic aircraft carrier looming in the distance, pounding down on my position--its expertly trained crew languishing in blissful ignorance of what will soon befall their fates (IGD wonders if it is the SS RR?);
The sonarman annouces the crew all have hard-ons (whatever that means?!);
I gaze calmly at my gorgeous computer sceen (TMO 2.0), and observe the stadimeter's Aob dial comfortably resting at 0 degrees, which it was set I started tracking the target; and
1. What do I do with the Aob?
2. What do I do with the stadimeter dial? and finally,
3. When do I do it?

Another issue: When the target is way out there, like 20K - 30K yd. range, it is hard to accurately plot range and bearing because the Nav Map is simply to tiny to draw an accurate range and bearing line for those distances. I end up a short bearing line, say 7K yds, marking the line with an "X", and then extending the line to the desired range and bearing, and extending it a third time if necessary. Five words describe this process. "Slow. Pain in the ass."

[razark]

Have all three people using this mod upgraded to the latest version?

Version 1.02: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1901

That's what I'm running. Finally getting a chance to try it out in detail. I've decided that I'm going to have to disable map contacts, though. I'm getting annoyed that my plot is not matching up with the contact plotted on the map, and I find it hard to concentrate on the plotting and such.

[Cpt.Kool]

OK, I thought it was to work with 1.4. What a pitty! So I need the U-boat add-on at least?

[Nisgeis]

OK, I thought it was to work with 1.4. What a pitty! So I need the U-boat add-on at least?

It might work with 1.4, I don't quite know. Try it and see what happens. In any case, getting the U-Boat add-on is sort of a must have, as it adds in a few things and the graphics are much better (1.4 is limitted to 1024x768 rescaled). Plus you get a whole U-Boat campaign too.

1. What do I do with the Aob?
2. What do I do with the stadimeter dial? and finally,
3. When do I do it?

Have a look at JCC's tutorial for those answers. At long range you don't need to be super accurate. You only need to be accurate enough to get into a good firing position.

That's what I'm running. Finally getting a chance to try it out in detail. I've decided that I'm going to have to disable map contacts, though. I'm getting annoyed that my plot is not matching up with the contact plotted on the map, and I find it hard to concentrate on the plotting and such.

How far out are you?

[I'm goin' down]

I just read the new additions to the tutorial. I was doing things I thought made sense, but I was not using your techniques per his newly added poritons of the tutorial. He has shown me the way. It is still very complex, but I should master it in a few months. During that time, the Japs will build more ships for me to sink!

[I'm goin' down]

Correct version here.

[razark]

How far out are you?
It's not that far out. I'm able to plot the points, and draw a decent course for the target. Range I'm fine with. Having it be a little bit off long or short is fine. The bearing seems to be leading the target by about 3-4 degrees to clockwise most of the time, but I also end up with it going kind of wild either way once in a while. The targets have all been in rough water and at long range, so I'm probably not getting a good bearing on them.

My main problem is that I'm concentrating too much on the contact on the map. I need to turn it off so I can concentrate on my plot, instead of falling back on habit.

Have a look at JCC's tutorial for those answers. At long range you don't need to be super accurate. You only need to be accurate enough to get into a good firing position.

I downloaded all the pictures from that tutorial so I can flip through them. Very nice stuff!

[Cpt.Kool]

It might work with 1.4, I don't quite know. Try it and see what happens. In any case, getting the U-Boat add-on is sort of a must have, as it adds in a few things and the graphics are much better (1.4 is limitted to 1024x768 rescaled). Plus you get a whole U-Boat campaign too.

OK it won't work, there are files in the tex dir: Range Unit AO.tga, Range Unit Labels.tga and TDC_Dials.dds. They do not exist in 1.4. Game crashes.

So, now I have to go shopping! I was in a 100% career and badly missing just this!! Better graphics were not my problem but getting a better range for plotting was.

I hope I be back soon. Thanks for the welcome still.

[Nisgeis]

The bearing seems to be leading the target by about 3-4 degrees to clockwise most of the time

If you can, always use optical bearings. It's 1000% easier to lock the scope and just use the radar for range. If you are tracking beyond visual range, then you need to measure radar bearing from the trailing edge of the radar beam, or in other words, sweep over the target then step back (mouse wheel) until you pick up the target again and that's the bearing the centre of the target is at.

Try these. I'd advise plotting with map contacts on if I were you, so you can see when you get it right. :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1952

That's four radar training misisons and one TDC training mission all accessible from the Submarine School off the main menu. Each mission has full instructions in the mission brief:

Radar Training Part One.

In this mission the player will learn to read bearings from the radar train bearing indicator and match them to the bearing observed through the periscope or TBT.

OBJECTIVE 1: Use PPI Scope.

Use the PPI indicator to take quick readings of target bearings, matching them to visual observation. A rough estimate can be obtained by tracing through the centre of the blip to take a bearing and compare it to a bearing taken through the TBT. Note that the PPI indicator's bearing reading is quite rough and becomes harder to read the closer to the centre of the scope targets are. Note the position the beam has to be in to take a range reading.

OBJECTIVE 2: Use the 'A' Scope.

Use the 'A' scope to take accurate bearing and range information for each target and match it to the bearing observed visually through the periscope or TBT. Note that the 'A' Scope will show a pip for a sweep of approximately 9 degrees (NB: This radar arc was 5 degrees in real life). The train bearing indicator is located above the 'A' scope and can be used to read of both relative and true bearings to target, though on this version, the true bearings are too small to be accuratrely read and also have not been calibrated. Note that the pip on the 'A' scope for each target stays illuminated over several degrees. Make a note of the bearing range your 'A' scope reading gives you and match that to the visual observations taken through the TBT and stadimeter, if you wish to compare.

The 'A' scope is set up in what is known as a 'lobed off' configuration. The energy from the radar beam is directed out to one side of the radar antenna. In the current configuration it is lobed off to the right of centre. This is so that the edge of the thin radar beam can be used to detect the bearing of a target, rather than trying to judge when the pip is highest using the blunt end of the beam. The edge is much more sensitive and will give a greater degree of pip height change.

To get an accurate reading of the relative bearing of a target, read the bearing from the back edge of the contact. To do this, sweep the beam clockwise over the pip and when it disappears, step backwards using the mouse wheel (move the mouse wheel towards you) until the pip re-appears on the 'A' Scope. Look at the radar train bearing indicator and read off the relative bearing.

End the mission when you are comfortable reading ranges and bearing of static ships.



Radar Training Part Two.

In this mission the player will read the bearings from the radar train bearing indicator and the range of three seperate targets. The player will then attempt to sink them.

OBJECTIVE 1: Take the bearing and range.

Sweep with the radar and use the PPI scope to get an awareness of the number and rough positioning of the targets. Select one and obtain the range and bearing of the target using the 'A' Scope.


OBJECTIVE 2: Sink the ship.

Once you have the information, enter the bearing using either the UZO, the periscope or the sonar station. Enter the range using the stadimeter (you will need to have enabled manual targetting for this to be an option. Move the stadimeter, or simply click on the dial to drag the indicator round. You have have trouble with higher ranges, so you may need to set the target's height and then use the stadimeter button to move the split prisms blind, until you have the correct range indicated. Once the correct data has been sent to the TDC, fire a spread of torpedoes.

If you missed, try again, if you hit, congratulations. You can either end the mission or try to sink another.


Radar Training Part Three.

Weather report: CLEAR.

There are three targets in varying orders of difficulty. Your aim is to track each (one per time the mission is attempted) and then sink it.

Use Radar range and observed bearings through periscope (or radar bearings) to plot the course of the three target vessels. The tanker to the NW is a slow moving target and will be following the same course each time this exercise is attempted. The tanker to the NE is moderately fast moving and will follow a slightly different course each time this exercise is attempted. The target to the south is suspicious of submarine activity and will be zig-zagging. This last target will be the most challenging. See if you can identify its zigs.


Radar Training Part Four.

Weather report: HEAVILY OVERCAST and FOG

This is a recreation of the previous exercise, except conducted in heavy fog, so the only tool you can use is the sonar and radar, with visual observations unavailable. The exercise however should be conducted using the radar only to obtain bearings and range.

There are three targets in varying orders of difficulty. Your aim is to track each (one per time the mission is attempted) and then sink it.

Use Radar range and observed bearings through periscope (or radar bearings) to plot the course of the three target vessels. The tanker to the NW is a slow moving target and will be following the same course each time this exercise is attempted. The tanker to the NE is moderately fast moving and will follow a slightly different course each time this exercise is attempted. The target to the south is suspicious of submarine activity and will be zig-zagging. This last target will be the most challenging. See if you can identify its zigs.

Advanced Training:

Not for the faint hearted. A good radar operator will be efficient in the tracking and reading of data from multiple bearings. Use your radar skills to track and plot each of the three targets and produce a plot for each one. For an added challenge, do this in real time, without pausing time.


TDC Training Part One.

Weather report: CLEAR with LOW WIND.

This is the first TDC training mission. You will be positioned NNE of your target, a large modern tanker, which is steaming on a course NNW at approximately 12,000 yards (6 miles). The tanker is on a course of 338 degrees at a speed of 10 knots.

Practice using the TDC, with the details given above. As you know the target's course, you do not need to worry about eyeballing or drawing on the chart to work out the target's AOB. Use the TDC's target course entry dial to enter the course of 338 (making sure the AOB dial is selected in the periscope) and send this to the TDC. Then enter the speed of 10 knots and send that to the TDC. Finally, use the periscope to lock onto the target and then use the radar to measure the range as accurately as you can (make sure you have the stadimeter selected in the periscope view). When you have the range, send the data to the TDC. Now with the TDC having a complete solution, you can start the PK and the TDC should keep track of where the target is. As you have entered accurate information, the TDC should 'track' with the target. Wait several minutes and take a new bearing measurement from the periscope and a new radar range measurement and use these actual measurements to compare to the TDC's generated position. If you entered the details correctly, the measured and generated details should match.

Manouver as needed to sink the target. If you update the target's bearing, make sure to check that the target's course is still showing as 338.

[razark]

If you can, always use optical bearings. It's 1000% easier to lock the scope and just use the radar for range.
Optical bearing and radar range
The best combination will never change
Optical bearing and radar range
Then your plot shall never be strange.
I kept asking the crew, but they kept saying they couldn't see anything 14 miles out. :D

If you are tracking beyond visual range, then you need to measure radar bearing from the trailing edge of the radar beam, or in other words, sweep over the target then step back (mouse wheel) until you pick up the target again and that's the bearing the centre of the target is at.
Like I said, it was some heavy seas. The target kept appearing and disappearing, so it was hard to determine exactly when it was in or out of the beam. Probably not the best for testing this out.

Try these. I'd advise plotting with map contacts on if I were you, so you can see when you get it right. :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1952

That's four radar training misisons and one TDC training mission all accessible from the Submarine School off the main menu. Each mission has full instructions in the mission brief:

Already downloaded them. Once I finish the patrol I'm on, I'll install them and give it a try.

[I'm goin' down]

I too was having problem getting bearing and range plots to measure accurately. Two tips. 10,000 yd. - 15,000 yd. range is much easier to plot than longer ranges. (The computer screen is just not big enough to handle the larger distances.) If you are ahead of the target, adjust to slow speed. This will provide you more time to take readings and plot before your crew spots the target visually, and your sub's speed will not foul up the range by traveling to far between the time you take range and bearing readings and plot them. This helped me.

[Roger Dodger]

So, now I have to go shopping! I was in a 100% career and badly missing just this!! Better graphics were not my problem but getting a better range for plotting was.

I hope I be back soon. Thanks for the welcome still.

You can get the download edition for about $10 at: www.Direct2Drive.com (http://www.Direct2Drive.com)

[I'm goin' down]

I downloaded the avi video. I get no sound. My sound is working, as I checked it. Any suggestions?

[John Channing]

There isn't any (I'm too shy).

Here is the Closed Captioned version...




- First go to the TBT Screen

- Then note that the AOB of the contact is at 0 degrees

- Go to the TDC Screen (I go throught the radar)

- The Angle on the Bow matches what you saw on the TBT screen

-Note that at the bottom of the "Target" dial is a white triangle under the Torpedo Gyro indicator (hard to see).

- Left click on the target dial and hold to drag the triangle on the "Target" dial around, causing the triangles on the "Target Course" dial to move in concert.

- Move the "Target" dial triangle around until the triangle on the "Target Course" dial is at appx 348 on the outter dial.

- Go to the TBT and send the AOB

- Come back to the TDC and click/hold/drag left mouse in the "Target Course" dial (for fine adjustments) and now move the second triangle until it is at the "8" position on the inner dial.

- Outer dial "34", innder dial "8" = 348.

- Go to the TBT and click "send" again to send AOB again.

- The target course in the TDC is now 348.

JCC

[Cpt.Kool]

You can get the download edition for about $10 at: www.Direct2Drive.com (http://www.Direct2Drive.com)

Thanks Roger! We went back to Pearl Harbour and my information officer got 1.5 (secret Uboat info) for € 4.99 from a guy called Ubi Store (strange name, maybe a foreigner). It was past midnight already and most of the crew were on shore leave and drunk.

The crew in the conning tower however was still busy making room for the new equipment. So they immediately put in new cables, connectors and stuff like that. And then we power up..., to check....

Nothing! And we started up again.... Yes! It works, but we need a secret code to unlock the Uboat info. And this Ubi guy is nowhere to be found anymore. I'm getting angry but what's in a name I don't show it to the crew. Down to the boats documentation and found a secret code.

Back up to the conning tower we put in this code.... Wrong! We got four more try's before the secret info is going to destruct itself. And.., with that our boat! Which, after our first try isn't starting up at all!

So we send out all the crew that was still able to walk, to look for this Ubi guy. We could not find him anymore. We were really disappointed. But getting back on board we found a message on the conning tower.

"Thank you for the 4.99 renown. Now I can have a bed and a shower in the house of the homeless. I forgot to tell you, you will need this secret code to unlock the information: SH4-UNLCK-SCRT-CDES.

Thanks again,

Ubi S."

It looks very genuine so we give it our second try. It works and everybody is very happy!! I go to bed while the crew looks trough the newly got secret info. I am dreaming about the war and how we are stuck with bad rangefinding and plotting somewhere near Tokio harbour in 1943. It's 1941. I woke up.

I climbed up to the deck to see this new morning.., but it's really awfull! Everything looks twice as big as yesterday! I must still be dreaming! Back inside the crew is depressed. I am not dreaming! I realize that the captain missed to implement the secret DRCTx9c information to the ships computer.

It's december 9 1941 and we're going to war. While the new crew is coming aboard I heard something about radarrange finding. This gives us hope....

Cpt. Kool

[I'm goin' down]

Figures! I spent an hour trying to make my video sound work on the damned video!:haha:

Why do you go through the PPI radar screen in the video?

[I'm goin' down]

You new mod, along with the tutorials and videos, is going to keep a lot of skippers preoccupied for a LONG TIME! I for one like the idea of playing with map contacts off, something I had not tried until now as Captain Scurvy's tutorial was no practical to use on a regular basis. Your program is. Plus, the video tutorials and practice mission introduce many to true stealth on an attack run. We cannot see the target some of the time and can still launch a successful attack! Thanks for all of your hard work and contribution to the game.

This is the essence of a hard core mod in my opinion.:yeah:

[I'm goin' down]

Raining pussycats in this mission.

I hit the first target which the sonarman announced at a bearing of 46 degrees and was 4 for 6. I was feeling pretty good. So I went for the whole enchilada.

The second target was announced at a bearing of 180 degrees. But my readings said 172.5 at 2350 yds. I tried two sets of shots at that angle (172.5) with a one-half degree spread and missed. For good measure, I tried a solo shot at 179 degrees. Missed again.

What did I do wrong re the target's bearing? Is this the range differential issue you have addressed in your posts ? (I thought I was on a roll, too.)

Third target -- on hold for the moment.

[Nisgeis]

What did I do wrong re the target's bearing?

From the first training mission, which you used to gain experience of getting a bearing on a series of static targets and confirming that bearing optically:

To get an accurate reading of the relative bearing of a target, read the bearing from the back edge of the contact. To do this, sweep the beam clockwise over the pip and when it disappears, step backwards using the mouse wheel (move the mouse wheel towards you) until the pip re-appears on the 'A' Scope. Look at the radar train bearing indicator and read off the relative bearing.
If you were about seven degrees off, then you measured the bearing from the wrong 'edge' as the radar will pick up a target over a seven degree arc. Sweep over and then step back. Sweep Over, Step Back. Sweep Over Step, Back.

This is the essence of a hard core mod in my opinion.:yeah:

And that's why only four people will ever use it :-).

[John Channing]

Figures! I spent an hour trying to make my video sound work on the damned video!:haha:

Why do you go through the PPI radar screen in the video?

Force of habit. I just go to the Radar screen and right click... voila!

JCC

[I'm goin' down]

Second tutorial continued. went after the target that was at 189 degrees. Followed your advice re reading from the back edge of the target. I fired four torpedoes. Four hits!!!!

Then I went after the last ship at around 311 degrees and did not follow your advice. I missed six shots. I am going to the gym, but will take another crack at the third target tomorrow. The it off to the third tutorial.

It is pretty cool to take out a ship in a rain storm using sonar.

[Nisgeis]

IGD, you keep saying sonar. Do you mean radar? Or are you talking about the blue triangle?

[Mescator]

And that's why only four people will ever use it :-).

If a TM Version comes out, I'll be first in line ;)

[sergei]

The latest version works just fine with TMO.

[John Channing]

I have used both versions with TMO and it works fine. You lose a little camera functionality, but you will be too busy tracking contacts and setting up the TDC to worry about eye cancy!

JCC

[Mescator]

Oooohhh, my mistake. I thought it conflicted with the interior's. Downloading now!

Be nice if it can be integrated with the eyecandy though. I'm all for gameplay > Graphics, but it's still very nice to have both!

[irish1958]

Finally got this to work; four for four!:woot: Thanks JC for your help and instructions. Next I will try this in foul weather.:|\\

[John Channing]

You are welcome but the real credi goes to Nisgeis. If it wasn't for him you would have just downloaded 34 blank PowerPoint slides! :D

JCC

[Urge]

Nisgeis, Do I need to uninstall either of your radar mods-
Nisgeis' Radar Range Mod v2.05
Nisgeis' Range Ring and Bearing Line Mod
to install this? I am hoping to be #5 Nisgeis-And that's why only four people will ever use it :-).

Urge

[Mescator]

Wow....

Loving your work, this is fantastic. Complicated, but takes a successful hunt's satisfaction to a whole new level.

Edit: having used it a bit further, what are the odds of getting a Send to TDC button onto the TDC to prevent us having to go between the TBT and the TDC?

[Bubblehead1980]

The latest version works just fine with TMO.


so the TMO version is out?? ive been away a few days.

[I'm goin' down]

Seriously, are you asking a question to which Mr. sergei has posted a response? Unless I missed something ,,, (well, you can figure out the rest.)

[Nisgeis]

Be nice if it can be integrated with the eyecandy though. I'm all for gameplay > Graphics, but it's still very nice to have both!

Soon (TM).

Nisgeis, Do I need to uninstall either of your radar mods-
Nisgeis' Radar Range Mod v2.05
Nisgeis' Range Ring and Bearing Line Mod
to install this?

Won't work with 'Radar Range Mod v2.05' as this replaces it. Range ring and bearing line mod... should work in theory, if there are conflicts, install that first and then overwrite with this radar mod.

Edit: having used it a bit further, what are the odds of getting a Send to TDC button onto the TDC to prevent us having to go between the TBT and the TDC?

If some clever person comes up with a way to do it I'll put it in. As far as I know though, it's just not going to happen and the TBT is the only work around that works.

so the TMO version is out?? ive been away a few days.

You'll lose the interior eye candy, but otherwise functions well with TMO. Remove cameras.dat before you install the mod (from the mod, not the game or anywhere else).

[Mescator]

If some clever person comes up with a way to do it I'll put it in. As far as I know though, it's just not going to happen and the TBT is the only work around that works.

That's a pity. I'm not familiar with the game code, but i guess there's no way to add a button which is linked to the same code/function used by the TBT?

Regardless, thanks again. Still getting the ropes, but it's a lot of fun. Reminds me of teaching myself manual torpedo targeting =P

[razark]

Alright, first try at tracking a target with map contacts off. This really makes an approach take a lot more time than it used to.

The plot beginning to take shape:
http://a.imageshack.us/img689/5340/plot4.jpg

More points, now entering data into the TDC:
http://a.imageshack.us/img185/6664/plot6b.jpg

About 45 minutes into it:
http://a.imageshack.us/img571/8563/plot10.jpg

At this point, I had a visual on the target, almost exactly where it was supposed to be. :woot: Since I could see the target, I waited a couple more minutes and took another radar range. I jumped to the periscope, swung to the bearing, and watched him fire the first starshell of the night.

Now I get to practice evasion tactics.

[Urge]

Shouldn't this topic be Stickied?

Nisgeis-Will these two mods conflict with this?
TGT DIALS TO PK FIX-TMO
HiRes PPI-Radar
I wanted to finish a career before using this but I have been following the 2 3D TDC and Radar threads and I can't stand it any longer. I'm going to install TMO2 and the 3D TDC and Radar mod and have at it. I know I'm losing some eye candy with this but I'll switch to the TMO compatible version when it comes out since I've been wanting to try TMO2 also(currently running TMO1.7).

Urge

[John Channing]

You won't regret it.

When you have a working solution in, sitting in front of the TDC watching the solution develop, watching the range count down, watching the positional relationships change, checking that your sonarman is listening on the same bearing as what you have in the solution, watching the range indicator on the radar to see if your solution matches the generated range...

simply amazing.

JCC

[Nisgeis]

I jumped to the periscope, swung to the bearing, and watched him fire the first starshell of the night.

Now I get to practice evasion tactics.

What was it? A lone destroyer? *thinks* merchies don't fire starshells do they?

Shouldn't this topic be Stickied?

Nah, if the likes of TMO and RFB aren't stickied, then there's no need for this to be. If it becomes unpopular, then it'll sink. If it stays active then it will stay on the front page.

Nisgeis-Will these two mods conflict with this?
TGT DIALS TO PK FIX-TMO
HiRes PPI-Radar


I don't know about the TGT DIALS one, not sure what that mod does.
The HiRes PPI-Radar is definately not compatible.

[razark]

What was it? A lone destroyer? *thinks* merchies don't fire starshells do they?
I believe it's a Type D Escort. 900 tons of angry warship, last seen with an AoB of zero degrees, making 20 knots. I don't know that I've ever seen a merchant firing starshells.

I've got the external camera on, so I knew what it when I started tracking it. I didn't figure on actually taking the shot, but he detected me a lot sooner than I expected.

[Urge]

Nisgeis wrote...I don't know about the TGT DIALS one, not sure what that mod does.

WHAT THESE MODS DO:
These mods will add functionality to the position keepers (PK) AOB, RANGE and SPEED dial. You can now drag the AOB, RANGE or SPEED dial on the TGT DIAL and, the AOB, RANGE and TORP GYRO angle associated with the your targets will move accordingly.
This will give you greater accuracy on the data you input.
Using the AOB fix you determine the targets course and enter the AOB on the TGT DIAL while being able to see the PK move to the targets exact heading.
Using the SPEED fix you can see the gyro angle of your torpedo and the speed changing as you set the targets speed on the TGT DIAL.
Using the RANGE fix will make it so you can also see the numbers for range and the gyro angle move while you change the range on the TGT DIAL.
In order to enter this data your PK needs to be off and then started once the data is inputted.
Please keep in mind if you install these mods you DO NOT LOSE any functionality of the game. You can continue to use your own attack methods with the additions of these tools even if you decide to use them or not.
Look at it this way. You can determine your targets speed and course from 9 km away, enter it in the TGT DIAL, and as you get close refine your solution and take shots from distance with a higher probability of hits. No realism lost, just a gain on tools available.

I am thinking that it won't work but I hope that it does because I use it all the time.
Urge

[Nisgeis]

I tried something similar last year using the set_tgt_speed etcetera commands in the game, but I decided against putting them into the mod, as you still have to send the updates to the TDC to get them into the solution and it only works when the PK is Off, which is kind of not the point of the mod. I thought it would get confusing having the AoB and associated dials update in real time when the PK was off, but doing something different when the PK was on. The only way round that would be to turn the PK off mid solution, but then that's just odd and adds extra steps into the process. You can already see the target course update as you change the AoB on the 3D TDC.

There is no benefit in updating the target's speed or range in real time that I can see either.

[razark]

Will these two mods conflict with this?
TGT DIALS TO PK FIX-TMO
This one works with it. I'm running it on mine.

[I'm goin' down]

Shouldn't this topic be Stickied?

Urge

I already wrote Admiral Stevens and demanded he do so (heh!) I can't understnad it. He has failed to abide by my order.

[Cpt.Kool]

Hi Nisgeis,

I have Uboats installed right now and copied your files in. But the game crashes when getting into the boat to start the mission. (in careermode 1943)

I found that after crashing I have this new playersettings.cfg file it says:

TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_O01.tga

But in those dirs I have .dds files and no tga's! Is that maybe a problem?

(Just checked with my old files, this is not the problem I saw.)

[Nisgeis]

DDS files are what should be in the directory, so that's fine. This mod doesn't alter those files at all though, as they are the external skin of the sub, whereas this mod only changes the interior. I'm a bit concerned you are copying files in, rather than enabling them with JSGME. You might want to do a fresh install and then put any mods in with JSGME instead, as it's much safer and easier to undo any mod installs.

[Cpt.Kool]

OK, I did that, using JSGME. It's indeed easier to switch between a working installation and the one saying having a critical error! I have a very fresh install as I downloaded the uboat pack last weekend. Before installing that I uninstalled SHIV 1.4 and reinstalled it. (Don't remember installing the 1.4 patch, but that should be the problem. I think. Uboat patches everything, or not to 1.5?)

The only thing I didn't remove was the docandsettings/me/etc/sh4 dir entries.

[Nisgeis]

As far as I know the U-Boat add on patches the game to 1.5, regardless of the version you had before.

[Cpt.Kool]

Then for the moment I' clueless. Maybe I'll try a complete new install this weekend. (you never know, you maybe have to do it twice)

[I'm goin' down]

I am still here. I have been busy fighting off a gopher attack in my yard, and some business matters that pulled the Barbarinna off the line. I am stuck on pracitce exercise no. 3, but will be on it tonight.

[Nisgeis]

I am stuck on pracitce exercise no. 3, but will be on it tonight.

The weather is clear, so you should be able to lock the scope to a target and use the radar for range only, which should make it easier.

[I'm goin' down]

True. But I keep forgetting to switch the Stadimeter to the Range Dial, so I plot the target and then go to the Stadimeter, only to have to start over. I usually end up kicking myself, looking in the mirror in the captain's berth, and muttering, "Look at that Jackass. A finer specimen you will never see!" (adapted from Walter Houston's line in Treasure of Sierra Madre when Bogart and Tim Holt grovel in the dirt in ecstasy because they have found "fools gold" and mistaken it for the mother lode.)

[razark]

Just wondering:
Has anyone tried running the tests from the TDC manual on this?
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/tdc/tdc06.pdf

I haven't yet, but I was thinking about doing it, just to see what happens. Maybe tomorrow night I'll run through it and see how it goes. If nothing else, it should give a bit more familiarity with the TDC interface.

[Nisgeis]

Mav87th tried it and got good results.

[sergei]

Good stuff razark.
Thanks for the link.
A little light reading for the weekend. :DL

[razark]

Good list of documents:
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/

Sub specific section:
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/#sub

Enjoy your weekend. :D

[razark]

Just got my first real kill using this mod, with map updates off. Not in a training mission, but in a campaign patrol. I'd been tracking the target since Saturday, getting 10-20 minutes at the computer every once in a while. In game, 2 hours and 39 minutes from contact, through a zig, to torpedo impact.

What a great feeling when four of four fish explode on contact! Training missions have nothing on doing it on patrol.


Nisgeis, this is absolutely GREAT! What are the chances we're going to see this sometime soon for boats besides the Gato/Balao?

[bowfin]

:yeah:
This is great ! Thanks so much for making this mod.I Installed your mod over TMO1.9 and deleted the your camera.DAT file. I have free cam back and mod seems to work fine... till you make full compatible version anyway.

I have often dabbled in the dark art of radar plotting (full realism settings). I would turn off the lights after my girl has gone to bed, position the 5.1 surround sound speakers and huddle in front of the scope (monitor). Tracking a Japanese convoy from beyond visual range, taking a range and bearing reading every 3 minutes long enough to get their speed and course to within reasonable error. Then race ahead at flank speed, submerge, and wait till they arrived all the while checking and rechecking their progress with passive sonar. I have managed to to get hits without ever raising the periscope. I single ping from active sonar just before firing is enough to verify the target is close enough the the expected course and speed. I have only manage this a couple of times but it was extremely satisfying. My girlfriend just didn't seem to understand when I woke her up and tried to explain my elation.... But I know you guys understand.
:salute:
Sir, I salute you

[Roger Dodger]

:yeah:
This is great ! Thanks so much for making this mod.I Installed your mod over TMO1.9 ... till you make full compatible version anyway.

I have often dabbled in the dark art of radar plotting (full realism settings). . . I have only manage this a couple of times but it was extremely satisfying. .... But I know you guys understand.
:salute:
Sir, I salute you

I'm using TMO2.0 + RSRDC. I haven't made any changes, like deleting camera.dat, and haven't noticed any problems or conflicts.

You have gone much further with RADAR use than I had previously. I have used the PPI scope (when available) to set up an intercept course, but that's about it. I wasn't aware of what I was even looking at on the 'A' scope, so never used it UNTIL I GOT AHOLD OF THIS MOD. What a difference this will make to my attack planning! :yeah:

The 'Training' forum is especially informative, be sure you monitor that one closley. There is alot of helpful information there.


God Bless Electric Boat

[Nisgeis]

Well done chaps, keep up the sinkings!

[clara2g]

I feel a bit stupid for ask this but... where is that cute 3D TDC? I just don't find it :oops: It has a hotkey or something like that? :oops::oops::oops:

Aaaw...

[I'm goin' down]

It is a mod. You can download it off the first post in this thread.

[clara2g]

It is a mod. You can download it off the first post in this thread.
I know, I already installed it, but I don't find the TDC in the sub :oops:

[sergei]

It's in the conning tower.
Try F9, that works for me.

[clara2g]

It's in the conning tower.
Try F9, that works for me.
Ow, F9 it's the radar for me, but I found the TDC in the conning tower. lol thanks, time to get facial surgery :oops:

[John Channing]

When you are at the Radar screen try right clicking your mouse.

JCC

[sergei]

Ow, F9 it's the radar for me, but I found the TDC in the conning tower. lol thanks, time to get facial surgery :oops:

As long as you found it mate, that's all that matters. :DL

[Nisgeis]

Dead Reckoning is a means of navigation where you take your current position and plot where you are based on your own speed and your own course, rather than sightings of stars or the sun or GPS.

EDIT: OK, so the post this referred to has been deleted.

[I'm goin' down]

Oh boy, I thought, now they are in trouble. My boat set off from Brisbane in June 42 to patrol the Solomen Islands. Map contacts disabled. I started patrolling, and received a message that large IJN forces were headed to Dublon. I figured I would make the party, as I had three days to get to it. Carriers, battlewagons and cruisers -- oh my! I began to salivate thinking about it. I know there is a Navy Cross out there with my name on it. So, I put it to flank and took off. When we arrived, I promptly got a contact--lots of contacts. They were all just out view. No problemo! (I got the 3D TDC!) I went to turn the radar on, so I could kick some butt. Only, we had a minor problem. S-18s are not equipped with radar! All those capital ships and my boat deosn't have radar! And map contacts are disabled!! I looked at my chiefs, who names are Murphys and Law. They just grinned.

[I'm goin' down]

I just noticed that thet Easy Aob mod is not working. I wonder if the 3D TDC mod overrides it. Easy Aob permits the target dial on the TDC to rotate when the Aob rotates. My target dial on the TDC was not rotating. I was playing with a boat that did not have the 3D TDC but the mod was still enabled after the Easy Aob.

[Roger Dodger]

Only, we had a minor problem. S-18s are not equipped with radar! All those capital ships and my boat deosn't have radar! And map contacts are disabled!!

Hope you brought along a banjo! :rotfl2:


S-Boats are REAL submarining!

[I'm goin' down]

I went back to my Leyete Gulf Mission. I figured I would treat it as a practice mission. So I tracked the second task force, American, as I noted earlier. I was gigantic. This was a night time exercise. I began tracking this ENE of my original position at around 3 a.m. At about 4 a.m., after several ships passed, I fired four torpedoes at an American troop carrier. Range around 1200 yds. determined by sonar. Speed 7 kts. via plotting. Map contacts disabled. 3D TDC used to plot course (327 degrees) and speed measuring points. Too many ships to use 3D TDC to track an individual ship for purposes of a radar only attack. Note: dds didn't bother me as I was considered a friendly. Six shots with a spread and 15 ft. running depth. 6 hits. Target exploded. I never had a good aspect ratio via the stadimeter because it was too dark, so I relied on my course plot and sonar for the attack.

Your TDC is ready for the market. Make your final tweaks and you are there. Congratulations. This may be the mod of the year. I like it. Now for celestial navigation...

[I'm goin' down]

I realized a couple of days ago that I could not zoom to 3D TDC. For some reason my zooming capability quit on me. That prevents me from reading the bearing tool on the ceiling, and getting close the Target dial and Target Course dial. It is impossible to read any of them without great difficulty. When zoom capability is intact, they are easy to read. My solution was to deactivat the mod. I downloaded a clean 3D TDC version and overwrote the exisiting one. I reactivated the mod. That fixed the problem for one mission, but now I cannot zoom in on the 3D TDC again or the bearing dial on the ceiling. This is the last mod activated. Also, sometimes the program lags when I am in 3D TDC. I have no idea if the issues are related. Any idea?

[Nisgeis]

There isn't a zoom in the mod, that may be down to TMO's camera. Did it always lag in the 3D TDC screen, or is that new?

Is anyone else getting lag in the 3D TDC screen?

[I'm goin' down]

it started with the mod. As for the zoom, I could move closer to the Target and Target Course Dial for example. Much like the close up on JC's tutorial and on your shot of the unit in this thread. I cannot get there most of the time. Sometime, rarely, I can get close. The problem is really bothersome as it makes using those tools very difficult.

When the system slows down, the clock slows and it is hard to control mr. mouse. It ususally last 1-3 minutes.

[I'm goin' down]

the reason I cannot read the dials I mentioned previously is because I am looking up at them, particularly the Target and Target Course Dials, which are angling away from me. If you can somehow make the numbers on the dials easier to read, especially the inside degree numbers (1 - 8) on the Target Course Dial, it would make it a lot better. The camera will not move to the left and get close the the Target Course Dial, so those nos. cannot be read. The bearing tool on the ceiling is readable if I could get closer. I reloaded all of my mods starting with TMO 2, RSRDC 502 plus the patch that goes with it, and SCAF for RSRDC. The other mods I have shouldn't affect the 3D TDC .

I just deleted SCAF and replaced it with Max optics 4 for 1.9. And I deleted the TBT filter (red) for TMO 1.9 and stock. The mods for 1.9 had not been updated to 2.0. I will check and see if this fixes the problem.

I just checked. Still a lag at times, and I cannot move the camera to get a good look at the Target and Target Course Dials. It is a problem.

[John Channing]

There isn't a zoom in the mod, that may be down to TMO's camera. Did it always lag in the 3D TDC screen, or is that new?

Is anyone else getting lag in the 3D TDC screen?

Not here. I never had a zoom feature or experienced any lag. Thje pics on the tut are straight off of the screen. I am running TMO 2.0, the revised Gato interior, RSRD and your mod (1.02).

Sounds like you are getting some mod conflicts (although lag usualy means a competition for or lack of system resources. Spyware running?)

JCC

[sergei]

Removed:
sorry I misread the problem :oops:

[I'm goin' down]

I do have a spyware program running. I can disable it during game play and see if that helps. I do not have many mods.

TMO2.0
RSRDC502
RSRDC patch
Convy Routes TMO+RSRD
Extra Allied naval bases for SH4 + UBM + TM...
Fooskin Combo Custom for the Bararinna
Max Optics IV for TMO_2
3D TDC and Radar Range Unit v1.02

Pretty basic stuff.

I plan to add the TSAC,and SCAF if there is version for TMO 2.0

[I'm goin' down]

should I consider removing the camera dat file from the mod? Will that allow my camera to pan closer to the dials? I cannot move the view closer (zoom in) to the dials, so the Target Dial nos. (especially the inner nos. 1-8 or 9?) are lierally unreadable. I can barely see them. When I can zoom in closer, I can read them, but, like I noted previously, that only happens rarely.

[Nisgeis]

should I consider removing the camera dat file from the mod? Will that allow my camera to pan closer to the dials?

If you are using TMO yes. You removed the cameras.dat before, as I recall you accidentally deleted every copy of cameras.dat and had to reinstall your game. So that would explain why you are having a problem this time if you haven't done the same. Remove cameras.dat from within the mod folder only. Then install the mod as normal.

[Mescator]

If you are using TMO yes. You removed the cameras.dat before, as I recall you accidentally deleted every copy of cameras.dat and had to reinstall your game. So that would explain why you are having a problem this time if you haven't done the same. Remove cameras.dat from within the mod folder only. Then install the mod as normal.


Quick comment on this. With TMO's camera you don't rock with the boat. Makes it very difficult to use the TDC in rough seas because it keeps moving.

[razark]

Quick comment on this. With TMO's camera you don't rock with the boat. Makes it very difficult to use the TDC in rough seas because it keeps moving.
That really got to me one day. I found a way to deal with it.

Hit Shift-F2 to go to the interior free camera, and move it from the control room to the TDC. You can work the TDC as usual, and you aren't swaying like a drunken sailor. I'm using TMO2's cameras.dat file.

If someone could fix that, or explain how to fix it, I would be very grateful. I took a look into the cameras.dat file, but it was beyond my understanding. Is there a thread somewhere that explains the workings of that file?


I've got a list of complaints with this mod:
-The drunken TDC view. There's my workaround, but it's a bit tedious to do it every time.

-Playing with map contacts off. If there were some way to distinguish air contacts from surface contacts, I would be a lot happier. I get a message that there is a radar contact, and I check the screen, and nothing shows, so I dive. Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

-The lack of enhanced radar station/TDC on boats that aren't Gato/Balao. I'd love to see this on all the boats. (Except the TDC on S-Boats. If I recall correctly, these boats did not have a TDC.)


Other than that, I'm really loving this mod. Over the past few days, I ran down a radar contact while ducking airplanes, finally moving into visual range to discover I was tracking a fishing boat. Too many airplanes, or I would have taken it out with the deck gun. Oh well, moving back to my objective.

Shortly after that, I got a hydrophone contact, went to radar depth, and chased it down. There were still airplanes around, so I was moving along slowly at radar depth. I got into a position where I could theoretically attack, but I've never taken a shot at more than 3,500 yards before, except the occasional "it's getting away!" desperation shots at a carrier or battleship. I didn't like the range, but I was pretty confident with the solution in the TDC. I fired a spread of six fish at the target. The first two missed astern, the third, fourth, and fifth hit, and the third was even nice enough to explode. The sixth torpedo got lost and decided to wander around in a circle for a while. Fortunately, that one hit was enough to sink the target.

Beautiful stuff.

[Nisgeis]

I've got a list of complaints with this mod:
-The drunken TDC view. There's my workaround, but it's a bit tedious to do it every time.

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a controller attached to the camera called something like Mech Shocks Pendulum, or words similar in cameras.dat. Remove that and it should remove the drunkenness - there may be another sub child of it too with damage shaking attached.

-Playing with map contacts off. If there were some way to distinguish air contacts from surface contacts, I would be a lot happier. I get a message that there is a radar contact, and I check the screen, and nothing shows, so I dive. Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

There's two ways, first way is to make it so that you play with map contacts on, but all the ship icons are removed, leaving you to look at the map and see if its an aircraft, but not being able to see the ship. This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.

The second way is to make the surface radar station switch to display the air search radar, but the radar station will only display if the currectly on radar can see ground units, so you'll get ground units on the 'air' radar as well as air targets. You'll also either get air targets on the PPI, before you get SV radar, or if I rig it the other way, you'll never get air on the PPI even if you do have SV radar.

-The lack of enhanced radar station/TDC on boats that aren't Gato/Balao. I'd love to see this on all the boats. (Except the TDC on S-Boats. If I recall correctly, these boats did not have a TDC.)

Soon (TM). The mod isn't finished yet, there's more to add, e.g. distance to track, digital readout of true bearing to radar target, reskin of the AoB dial, add a second triangle to the AoB, add some sort of DRT for manual estimate correction and possible add the TSAC to the top of the fuses over the gyro angle solver.

[razark]

Thanks for the feedback.
Thank you for this wonderful bit of modding. It's really changed the way I play the game.

Thanks for the camera info. I poked at it a bit and couldn't figure it out. Somehow, I managed not to crash the game, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Do you know which camera is used for the TDC?

There's two ways.... This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.
I may try that first one after I finish my current patrol. Sounds like it is kinda dependent on what ships are installed, so making a mod wouldn't work for everyone. As for seeing the direction of airplanes, the way they are reported in the game is just backwards. It gives an exact bearing and a vague range, when it should show the exact range and no bearing. Since it already shows bearing, I think I can live with that.

Any input as to which files I would need to look at?

Soon (TM). The mod isn't finished yet, there's more to add, e.g. distance to track, digital readout of true bearing to radar target, reskin of the AoB dial, add a second triangle to the AoB, add some sort of DRT for manual estimate correction and possible add the TSAC to the top of the fuses over the gyro angle solver.
Looking forward to it. One thing I forgot, the numbers on the inside dial of the Target Course dial are a bit hard to see. I'm doing alright, and I can move the camera to get a closer look, but larger numbers would be nice.

[I'm goin' down]

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a controller attached to the camera called something like Mech Shocks Pendulum, or words similar in cameras.dat. Remove that and it should remove the drunkenness - there may be another sub child of it too with damage shaking attached.

There's two ways, first way is to make it so that you play with map contacts on, but all the ship icons are removed, leaving you to look at the map and see if its an aircraft, but not being able to see the ship. This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.

The second way is to make the surface radar station switch to display the air search radar, but the radar station will only display if the currectly on radar can see ground units, so you'll get ground units on the 'air' radar as well as air targets. You'll also either get air targets on the PPI, before you get SV radar, or if I rig it the other way, you'll never get air on the PPI even if you do have SV radar.



Re zooming in the Dials: I removed the camera.dat file again. I did it last night and nothing happened. This time I had the mod deactivated when I removed it. I rebooted and opened a saved game. I was able to zoom the camera close to the dials, so that my problem may be solved. I will see keep my eye on it, and if reverts back to its former habit, I will let you know.

As for bobbing up and down of the radar unit, I can live with it. It is a minor inconvenience. I just noticed it when I was able to zoom to the Dials. Before, I did not notice it. I consider it part of the experience.

As for keeping contacts for planes, I prefer your first proposed solution as I only have TMO2.0 and no extra ships. What files do I eliminate to remove ships from map contacts if I choose to do so? The problem I see here is that if a ship does not have radar, I would typically to play with map contacts on to follow ships and planes. If the ships are removed, I would be required to have two games installed -one with map contacts intact and one with map contacts modified. This seems onerous.

Ideally, it would be nice if someone could mod a "Restore Map for Contacts for Aircraft Only" for those who deleted ships from Map Contacts.

[razark]

Thanks for the camera info. I poked at it a bit and couldn't figure it out. Somehow, I managed not to crash the game, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Do you know which camera is used for the TDC?
Woohoo! Found it, fixed it, my TDC operator is now sober!

It was the Dummy_Cam_ConningTower node.

[Mescator]

Come up to radar depth later to find a surface contact just moving onto the screen. It seems the radar range is longer than the display can show.

I noticed this as well, but it's fairly easy to work around. They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope. All you need to do is sit in the A Scope position, put it on sweep and watch both scopes. If you don't see a spike on the A within a couple of revolution's it means it's a plane. If you do, it's a boat and you have a bearing.

[razark]

I noticed this as well, but it's fairly easy to work around. They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope. All you need to do is sit in the A Scope position, put it on sweep and watch both scopes. If you don't see a spike on the A within a couple of revolution's it means it's a plane. If you do, it's a boat and you have a bearing.
Ah! Useful knowledge. I didn't notice if it spiked the A-scope or not.

I'm currently working on seeing if I can remove surface contacts from showing on the map while keeping air contacts.

[I'm goin' down]

When there are several rows of ships, it is very hard to isolate the same one. If you end up plotting ship A in row one for one range/bearing and ship B in row 3 for a second range/bearing, the course will be incorrect. If there is a solution to this, I would like to know. The seems to cause me a lot of trouble when the ships are at long range.

[Mescator]

When there are several rows of ships, it is very hard to isolate the same one. If you end up plotting ship A in row one for one range/bearing and ship B in row 3 for a second range/bearing, the course will be incorrect. If there is a solution to this, I would like to know. The seems to cause me a lot of trouble when the ships are at long range.

Unfortunately i believe this is something the real captains had to grapple with. With that said, i tend find i can do it. If you have 3 ships in the radar beam and are plotting the middle one, just look for the middle spike next time you do it. Eventually you get a feel for the speed at which the distance changes. You can also figure it out based on the shape of the convoy. I tracked a 5 Ship task force 200nm the other night using the same ship as my point of reference.

[I'm goin' down]

200 nm? Wow. I want your periscope mod. Max Optics 200?

try tracking when there are 30 ships. That is what i found in Leyete Gulf.

[Mescator]

200 nm? Wow. I want your periscope mod. Max Optics 200?

Haha. I tracked them over 200nm, not they were 200nm away =P. Started near Java and sunk them on the north east coast of Borneo.

try tracking when there are 30 ships. That is what i found in Leyete Gulf.

Eh, i don't see it posing a problem to be honest. I'd just get a outlying ship and stick with it. I could be talking out my ass though given i haven't had to track a big convoy yet.

[I'm goin' down]

I do not think I want to delete the map contacts for ships. That would bind me the 3D TDC. I prefer to take my chances with planes, and have the flexibilty to play with map contact enabled in situation where the boat does not have radar.

I am going to take a break from this thread. It has beaten my up pretty good, plus I am sure I have made Nisgeis' and Channings's lives somewhat miserable part of the time. This one hell of a mod. Tough though. Lots and lots of steps to follow as demonstrated by the 60 or so page tutorial. After using it for awhile, I reread Nisgeis tutorial. He recognized almost all of the issues early on. For me the toughest is the speed calculation and getting a good course fix on a large TF or convoy. I did sink a US troop ship in a huge convoy that I tracked for 25K yds. in Leyete Gulf at night. I did not have a good mod for night vision either. I was happy I proved I could work the mod, but a US ship, after all that, sheesh! I ended up following it on sonar and hit it with all six shots.

[Nisgeis]

They're outside the display of the PPI Scope but they WILL Spike on the A scope.

I didn't really touch the PPI scope, so it must be like that in stock, I'll have a look at it for the next version.

I am sure I have made Nisgeis' and Channings's livers somewhat miserable part of the time.

Nope, we never got any cases of beer from you. :DL

[Mescator]

I didn't really touch the PPI scope, so it must be like that in stock, I'll have a look at it for the next version.

Yeah, i can confirm that for you. I noticed the behavior before i started using mods. Never thought much of it until i turned map contacts off though :up:

[razark]

There's two ways, first way is to make it so that you play with map contacts on, but all the ship icons are removed, leaving you to look at the map and see if its an aircraft, but not being able to see the ship. This has probelms with unexpected ships (e.g. new ships that you have added) and you'll also be able to see the aircraft's direction, which is not realistic.
Had a try at this last night. I removed all of the black spot marks for ships at high zoom levels in TMO, and removed the box that marks ships at lower zoom levels from both merchants and warships. I added back in the triangle marker for airplanes. Turned contacts back on and fired up a training mission.

Results:
Ships were not visible on the map at all. Airplanes were visible as the triangle symbol when within visible range, but did not appear beyond visible range. The game uses the square box for airplane radar contacts, so I didn't see a way to make them appear without also showing the ships.

[Roger Dodger]

In my campaign game, I've just been given command of a Gato class sub, upgraded from a Porpoise class. My new Gato has no radar (yet), but the 3D TDC does show up, and is working. At least the TDC screen is there and the dials are spinning round and round.

Just to let the folks doing early war campaigns with S-boats, Porpoises, etc. the mod will work when you get the Gato or Balao class subs.

Good Hunting

[razark]

Had a try at this last night.

Results:
Failure.


Ok, thinking about this again after looking further into the files. I need a sanity check and some possible knowledge before I proceed.

What I was trying last night didn't work, so I poked into the files, and I found Maps.cfg. It has entries for SymbolZoom and GroupsZoom, SymbolZoom is commented as "units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up".

I'm thinking:
-If I remove the black spot *_shp.dds for ships, as well as the box symbol, ships will not show up.
-If I replace the blank TMO airplane *_shp.dds with the black spot, airplanes will only show up as the spot, without the little airplane drawing.
-If I change the SymbolZoom value to the maximum, contacts will always display the *_shp.dds graphic, which would be blank for ships and the black spot for airplanes, instead of the triangle and square symbols.

Intended result:
Ship contacts will not be seen on the map. Airplanes will always show up as the black spot, no matter the zoom level.

Questions:
-Would this work?
-Does anyone have any information regarding the Maps.cfg file?
-Am I crazy?

[I'm goin' down]

Of course. You are certifiably nuts.:D

Me. I am going to wait until someone crazier makes a "Remove ships contacts Mod, TMO2.0." Calling all crazy MFs! Come See if you can handle it.

[razark]

Of course. You are certifiably nuts.
I've got a few co-workers who'd probably agree with you. Probably a few tourists, too.

I am going to wait until someone crazier makes a "Remove ships contacts Mod, TMO2.0."
I waited. No one has done it yet, so I'm going to take a crack at it, and see if I can work something out.

[Nisgeis]

I'm thinking:
-If I remove the black spot *_shp.dds for ships, as well as the box symbol, ships will not show up.
-If I replace the blank TMO airplane *_shp.dds with the black spot, airplanes will only show up as the spot, without the little airplane drawing.
-If I change the SymbolZoom value to the maximum, contacts will always display the *_shp.dds graphic, which would be blank for ships and the black spot for airplanes, instead of the triangle and square symbols.

Intended result:
Ship contacts will not be seen on the map. Airplanes will always show up as the black spot, no matter the zoom level.

Questions:
-Would this work?

If those are the files that are used and that is the location that the zoom is controlled from, then yes that should work. Reading the instructions on how to get the map contacts back in TMO would tell you for sure which things to alter.

I waited. No one has done it yet, so I'm going to take a crack at it, and see if I can work something out.

Good man! :salute:.

[razark]

If those are the files that are used and that is the location that the zoom is controlled from, then yes that should work.
Ok, just got a chance to test this. :D

Good news:
It seems to be the right track. I think this might just work.

Bad news:
-It needs cleaned up.
-It's not really a clean mod to install. I have some ships that other people won't have. They'll have ships I don't have. It'll work, but it will need some mucking with files to get it to work for each individual setup.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to clean it up a bit more tonight, and run a few tests.

Reading the instructions on how to get the map contacts back in TMO would tell you for sure which things to alter.
:damn:
Yeah, I wish I'd thought of that before. It should help me with the cleanup, though.

[razark]

Who do I need to talk to to be able to upload files here?

I'd like to at least get the framework of this out so people can take a look at it once I get to the point where I'm mostly satisfied.

[I'm goin' down]

Me. I am going to wait until someone crazier makes a "Remove ships contacts Mod, TMO2.0." Calling all crazy MFs! Come See if you can handle it.

I waited. No one has done it yet, so I'm going to take a crack at it, and see if I can work something out.

Good man! :salute:.

Three comments re the above
razark re IGD: If that ain't calling the kettle black,...:haha:
IGD to razark: Now, for sure, the inmate is loose and running the asylum:har:
IGD to nisgeis. A classic mod enabler. Teasing us with his unsophisiticated, easy to master and play 3D TDC, whilst leaving the difficult mod work to the unwary gamer.:D
EVERYONE TO IGD: Shut the hell up. "Give 'em hell, razark!" (adapted from "Give 'em hell, 54th," shouted on the spur of the moment by a veteran, white union soldier in the movie Glory as the 54th Mass. Inf. marched through the dunes to the beach to lead an assault on a Confederate fort.)

[Nisgeis]

Who do I need to talk to to be able to upload files here?

Sailor Steve. Ask him to become a 'modman'.

[razark]

Ok, finally got around to getting this out. My company lost the bid for the followup to the contract I'm on, so I've been a bit busy getting my resume updated and other such things.

Take a look at it, and let me know how it is. It's not perfect, but I've found it does pretty much what I want it to.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2787

[Nisgeis]

Take a look at it, and let me know how it is. It's not perfect, but I've found it does pretty much what I want it to.

Look good to me. Friendly subs show up on the map still, but let's call that IFF :DL. That could open up some possibilities.... Start a release thread and I'll put a link to it in the first post. Nice work Razark!

I did have an idea about how to get the radar to work in 'air search' mode, which I will investigate when time permits.

[sergei]

Good job razark :up:
I did start to try and make something similar myself, but gave up when I couldn't get it to work properly.
I'll give this a go.

[I'm goin' down]

thanks!

[Nisgeis]

OK, so to make the air search radar distinct from the ground radar, I thought I might make it a different type to make it obvious, so you don't get confused. So how about when you are in air search mode, you get a 'J' scope. Completely a-historical, but it's a way to distinguish between air and ground easily. This was a type of scope that goes round the outside of the screen, instead of straight across, so you get 3 times the resolution as you are using more of the screen

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/Nisgeis/SubSim/JScope.jpg

Would anyone object to that for air search? Top at 12 o'clock is zero and it goes round clockwise to the full range of the radar.

[sergei]

Absolutely frikkin' awesome.
Can you get it to switch between air search and surface search?
I always thought that was a problem.

[razark]

So how about when you are in air search mode, you get a 'J' scope.
Would this be a separate display mode, with only air contacts showing, and surface contacts only on the PPI and A-scope?

Top at 12 o'clock is zero and it goes round clockwise to the full range of the radar.
Range display only, no bearing info?

[Nisgeis]

Absolutely frikkin' awesome.
Can you get it to switch between air search and surface search?
I always thought that was a problem.

I think so, with a bit of abuse of things that were never meant to be done. If I duplicate the air radar node, so that there are two nodes for air radar, with the new node underwater. One with a minimum detection height of the usual 20 and the new one with a minimum detection height of zero (thus making it into a ground radar that will display on the SJ radar set), but with the high air search radar top detection height limit so it will pick up air targets that the SJ won't. Then attach a dial controller to the new air node and the original SJ node, so that when the radar is in range step mode 4 (which is to be added) then the SJ node drops below the waterline, effectively turning off the usual SJ radar and the new air search radar is raised to above water level, thereby turning it on and as it is set as a ground radar (minimum height of zero) the game engine will render this air radar to the radar screen (the height is why the air search radar is never displayed on the SJ radar when it is off). Should work in theory.

Simple no?

[sergei]

Range display only, no bearing info?

I believe the early SD radar had no directional capability.

[sergei]

Simple no?

No!
Nice bit of lateral thinking there. I hope you can get it to work.

[Hitman]

I think so, with a bit of abuse of things that were never meant to be done. If I duplicate the air radar node, so that there are two nodes for air radar, with the new node underwater. One with a minimum detection height of the usual 20 and the new one with a minimum detection height of zero (thus making it into a ground radar that will display on the SJ radar set), but with the high air search radar top detection height limit so it will pick up air targets that the SJ won't. Then attach a dial controller to the new air node and the original SJ node, so that when the radar is in range step mode 4 (which is to be added) then the SJ node drops below the waterline, effectively turning off the usual SJ radar and the new air search radar is raised to above water level, thereby turning it on and as it is set as a ground radar (minimum height of zero) the game engine will render this air radar to the radar screen (the height is why the air search radar is never displayed on the SJ radar when it is off). Should work in theory.

Simple no?

Nisgeis ... you never cease to amaze me :o and I'm hard to amaze by now :o:o

However, for the early war Sj radar it would be better a display with just range, ot directional, using the same ordinary horizontal scale we already know. Will it anyway appear also in the PPI? :06:

[razark]

I believe the early SD radar had no directional capability.
Understood. That was a "I like!', not a "What are you thinking!" question.


I think so, with a bit of abuse of things that were never meant to be done.
Umm... isn't that what this entire thread is about?:D

Simple no?
If you say so.

[sergei]

Understood. That was a "I like!', not a "What are you thinking!" question.

Ok mate, sorry :oops:
Me likey too. :DL

[John Channing]

:o

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE

:o







JCC

[Mescator]

:o

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE

:o

QFT.

This is great Nisgeis, as usual your work continues to amaze.

[I'm goin' down]

Ok, finally got around to getting this out. My company lost the bid for the followup to the contract I'm on, so I've been a bit busy getting my resume updated and other such things.

Take a look at it, and let me know how it is. It's not perfect, but I've found it does pretty much what I want it to.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2787

Some comments and questions re your new mod.
I can see my sub and other subs. My sub does not have a little circle around it. Is that intended.

The aircraft are represented by a pin sized black dot. It is really quite tiny. Is that intended? Does this mod get enabled before the 3D TDC?

I did not see a separate thread for this mod yet, so I posted here.

[razark]

Some comments and questions re your new mod.
I can see my sub and other subs. My sub does not have a little circle around it. Is that intended.
The circle was removed so as not to show enemy subs. Side effect is, it doesn't show up for your own sub. Ctrl-Left Click will center the map on your boat, so it's not a major problem. The subs showing up was something I overlooked. I'll take care of that.

The aircraft are represented by a pin sized black dot. It is really quite tiny. Is that intended? Does this mod get enabled before the 3D TDC?
The order doesn't matter, so long as no mods overwrite the *_shp.dds files. Install it after TMO, RSRDC, or any other mods that add ships to the game.

The black dot is automatically scaled by the game. If you zoom in, it appears larger, and I'm not sure if there's a way to change that. I actually doubled it's size, and I find it just noticeable enough to see at a normal zoom level.

I did not see a separate thread for this mod yet, so I posted here.
Yeah. Note the bit about the contract change at work. The past few days have been loads of fun, and I just haven't really felt like doing a lot else.

And yesterday, we finally rolled out the system we've been working on for over two and a half years. Insane customer meetings, requirements shifting, no one knows exactly what words mean, security people you can't get a response from, testing groups that don't test, and multiple review boards.:damn: The Friday before a three day weekend, pulling a twelve hour shift.

I really love working for the government some days.
Yesterday was not one of them. :nope:


I'll try and get a thread up this weekend, after I fix those subs.

Edit:
Release thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174585) posted.

[CaptainHunter]

In the training missions 3&4 I can't seem to get a sound contact on the ship to the NW, I know It's a radar mission but I was wondering if there is something wrong with my sim?

[razark]

In the training missions 3&4 I can't seem to get a sound contact on the ship to the NW, I know It's a radar mission but I was wondering if there is something wrong with my sim?
Do you have the ship showing as a radar contact? The game only reports a contact through one sensor at a time. If it's a visual or radar contact, it won't show up when you ask for a sound contact report.

[CaptainHunter]

I'm at periscope depth, I did some testing yesterday, uninstalled the game and reinstalled with no patch and low and behold I got a sound contact on the NW ship, uninstalled and reinstalled again this time adding patch 1.4 and tested, again no sound contact on the NW ship, when I go to map view it shows a sound contact line and sometimes and I'll get reports on his location, I can sail right up to him with no sound from him at all.

[Roger Dodger]

Do you have the ship showing as a radar contact? The game only reports a contact through one sensor at a time. If it's a visual or radar contact, it won't show up when you ask for a sound contact report.

When you dive below RADAR depth, your sonarman will pick up the contact. If you're within range, you can 'follow' the contact with SONAR. This feature will continue to work even after you establish visual contact with the periscope.

Conversley, if you pick up a target on SONAR, then surface and pick up the target on RADAR, you will lose the SONAR contact.

Seems like you should be able to do both at once, but the game isn't set up that way.

Good Hunting!

[Dignan]

I'm following this one closely. Looks great. Is there any plan to make it available to all subs in addition to making it compatible with TMO?

[timmyg00]

OK, so to make the air search radar distinct from the ground radar, I thought I might make it a different type to make it obvious, so you don't get confused. So how about when you are in air search mode, you get a 'J' scope. Completely a-historical, but it's a way to distinguish between air and ground easily. This was a type of scope that goes round the outside of the screen, instead of straight across, so you get 3 times the resolution as you are using more of the screen

Would anyone object to that for air search? Top at 12 o'clock is zero and it goes round clockwise to the full range of the radar. In the interest of historical accuracy, I think it's best to keep an A-scope to display the SD radar. Maybe the display trace/tube could be a different color to help distinguish from the SJ?

I also don't think the extra range resolution of a J-scope is necessary, since we're not targeting aircraft. All we really need is a ballpark range rate to help us decide whether or not to pull the plug.

Keep up the great work!

Thanks

TG

[LukeFF]

I believe the early SD radar had no directional capability.

None of the SD sets had directional capability. That only came (for submarines) late in the war with SV.

[Armistead]

Just been using this lately with TMO1.9. I haven't noticed any issues exept sonar doesn't work with mouse, but home and end keys work fine.

Any other possible problems using this with TMO...

[razark]

Any other possible problems using this with TMO...
It will overwrite the interiors in TMO. I've found that while I miss some of the stuff, this mod is well worth running anyway.

[Bubblehead1980]

When is the TMO 2.0 version that doesnt overwrite the interiors free cam etc coming out??? :rock:

[Armistead]

It will overwrite the interiors in TMO. I've found that while I miss some of the stuff, this mod is well worth running anyway.

Are you talking about the 3d interiors mod. I run TMO1.9 and it's a seperate mod, but installed before radar mod and the interiors are there.
It may be included with 2.

If not the 3d interiors, what are you speaking of?

[John Channing]

I believe it only overwrites the cam file. If you want to keep this delete the cam file from the mod before installing. But even if you keep it the improvement in gameplay is well woth the loss of a bit of eye candy (and I am an eye candy kinda guy).

JCC

[razark]

Are you talking about the 3d interiors mod. I run TMO1.9 and it's a seperate mod, but installed before radar mod and the interiors are there.
It may be included with 2.

If not the 3d interiors, what are you speaking of?
Hrm. I thought it did overwrite the interior for the Gato. Perhaps I was wrong. It's been a long time since I've run without this mod.

[jldjs]

I've been practiing with the 3D TDC using TMO 2.0 Beta. Got to the point of wanting to us with a campaign so I installed RSRDC. FOllowing is my install order;
TMO 2.0
TMO_20_Beta_update
TMO_Easier_AI
MaxOptics IV for TMO_2
Return for Creaks and Man the Deck(Flak) Gun
EAXSoundsim_without_WebstersManuever_T
3000 Yard bearing Tool(1280x)
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
3D_Radar and TDC Training Missions V1.02
3D TDC and Radar Raneg Unit v1.02

But now my TDC (F9) dials are visible but all black, as is the aded unit to the left of the radar scope. I had installed SCAF for RSRDC but I was getting CTDs so I removed it. When SHIV started an RSRDC mission I noticed the blacked out dials. Any ideas what I might have done wrong?

[jldjs]

I reinstalled and problem resolved

[Tex_Hill]

Just a heads up. I installed this last night over RFB & RSRD & it appears to be running great. I started a new campaign and I'm currently hunting a contact in the Japanese home waters. Both the radar & the new TDC are working as advertised. :up:

What would be required to make the TDC available with the other classes of subs and earlier in the war?

[John Channing]

A lot of work by Nisgeis!

:D

JCC

[Hitman]

Yes, the amount of work put into this mod is staggering ...

But you can use it for other boats with a bit of a brutal shortcut :D

For example, let's say that you want to apply it to the Salmon class:

1.- Go to Silent Hunter 4/data/Submarine/NSS_Salmon
2.- Open with notepad, word, or wordpad the file NSS_Salmon.cfg
3.- Edit the line:

Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Salmon/NSS_Salmon

and modify it to:

Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato

Now the Salmon will use the interior of the Gato, and while retaining all original Salmon characteristics and outside appearence, the interior will be that of a Gato, including the conning tower with the 3D TDC and radar.

It's a crude solution, and it is somehow more noticeable in the boats like the Porpoise class who have a very different layout, but it will work and not cause side effects in the sub class you have chosen. The only thing changed is cosmetic, visual, and will not alter how the sub behaves.

[Bubblehead1980]

Is the TMo 2.0 compatible(doesnt overwrite TMO interior, such as clickable gauges etc) out yet or soon? Ready to try this out.

[Quagmire]

I second that motion. :yeah:

Actually I know you all are very busy. While I may not have the talent to create such a masterpiece I have been tinkering with S3D enough to be able to import chunks, etc. If free time is holding a true TMO merge of this mod up (totally understandable) could you at least release a change log or a how to sheet. That way we could spend time merging it ourselves.

Or at least die of frustration trying.... :damn:

Thanks!
.

[Armistead]

Is the TMo 2.0 compatible(doesnt overwrite TMO interior, such as clickable gauges etc) out yet or soon? Ready to try this out.

Bubble I run it with TMO..The interiors show fine, but it does nerf some of the clickable gauges, but still enough work, you just have to go around and find them, ones in the rear left control room work, some in the tower.

It also nerfs the mouse use at sonar, but the home end keys spin it fine and it works as it should.

Course I run it over about the same mods you use. Perfect mod for contacts off and even on.

[Bubblehead1980]

Bubble I run it with TMO..The interiors show fine, but it does nerf some of the clickable gauges, but still enough work, you just have to go around and find them, ones in the rear left control room work, some in the tower.

It also nerfs the mouse use at sonar, but the home end keys spin it fine and it works as it should.

Course I run it over about the same mods you use. Perfect mod for contacts off and even on.


So it just nerfs the clickables? Doesnt mess up the interiors or the interior free cam? Hmmm guess Ill have to check it out off thats true.

[Armistead]

So it just nerfs the clickables? Doesnt mess up the interiors or the interior free cam? Hmmm guess Ill have to check it out off thats true.


Actually it may be the interior mod that nerfs some of the clickables. I think Duc added it not correcting all the clickables because plenty still work, just look around and you'll find ones that work, obvious you'll want the 600ft gauge.

Doe's kill the freecam, but you can add that back, just delete the cam file before installing the mod. Haven't figured how to fix sonar to work with mouse wheel, but home/end work just fine.

I'm getting pretty good with it. I had such a hard time plotting before with contacts off. I'll get two accurate ranges and bearing and send both to the TDC, then click the watch and the sonarman will announce targets course and speed. Just go to that range, use a tool to mark his course. Then pull out Ducs chart and figure time at that speed and design my course of intercept. Course I'll check it a few times to be sure, but never know when enemy will change course. Dive and go to stad measurements. I'm far from perfect, but getting my attacks within 2000 yards.

[Bubblehead1980]

Actually it may be the interior mod that nerfs some of the clickables. I think Duc added it not correcting all the clickables because plenty still work, just look around and you'll find ones that work, obvious you'll want the 600ft gauge.

Doe's kill the freecam, but you can add that back, just delete the cam file before installing the mod. Haven't figured how to fix sonar to work with mouse wheel, but home/end work just fine.

I'm getting pretty good with it. I had such a hard time plotting before with contacts off. I'll get two accurate ranges and bearing and send both to the TDC, then click the watch and the sonarman will announce targets course and speed. Just go to that range, use a tool to mark his course. Then pull out Ducs chart and figure time at that speed and design my course of intercept. Course I'll check it a few times to be sure, but never know when enemy will change course. Dive and go to stad measurements. I'm far from perfect, but getting my attacks within 2000 yards.


Eh well I want to do this but will have to put it off for a bit until I have time to fool with this.I get to play for a little while each week night with current schedule so no time to do other things concerning SH 4 for most part but play.Perhaps itll be incorporated into the next TMO release...

[Bubblehead1980]

amazing work.Would be great if could disable PPI scope until mid to late 43 when it became common.

An SD scope would be awseome.I'd settle with the A scope being an SD scope only and having PPI, little a historical but would work.

[Mescator]

Quick question;

To fix the drunken sailor effect is easy enough, simply delete the Cameras .Dat file. I have however started using Maxoptics, which requires it's own Cameras file which brings back the Drunken Sailor.

Do you guys have a workaround? Using this thing precisely in rough weather (Like when you do entirely radar based shots xD) is almost impossible.

[razark]

Quick question;

To fix the drunken sailor effect is easy enough, simply delete the Cameras .Dat file. I have however started using Maxoptics, which requires it's own Cameras file which brings back the Drunken Sailor.

Do you guys have a workaround? Using this thing precisely in rough weather (Like when you do entirely radar based shots xD) is almost impossible.
I used Shift-F2 to get the interior free camera. You can wander into the conning tower, and not have to deal with the boat rocking. Problem is, every time you go back to the interior free cam, it resets the position to be back in the control room.

The other choice is to open up cameras.dat in S3D, locate the Dummy_Cam_ConningTower node, and remove the Mech Shocks Pendulum controller.

[I'm goin' down]

my laptop broke. Now I am on an old desktop. The games have a slight lag, but not bad. Running TMO and RSRDC with a few mods. Then I added the 3D TDC and razark airplane mod in that order. Now the lag makes the sim unplayble. I can barely drag the cursor. I will deactivate razark's mod to see if that helps. If it doesn't I will have to deactivate the 3D TDC too. I should get my laptop back in a few weeks, but if you or anyone else can explain whether and how I can avoid the lag, it would be appreciated. I do not know the capacity of this computer, and I am too lazy to download a program to find out.

BTW, my secret to avoid depth charges when my sub was spotted by a bunch of Jap patrol boats at Truk Atoll was to scurry at flank speed into the jap port nearest the Atoll's west entrance and moor, submerged, in one of its boat slips. A DD and four subchaser's went wild, dropping depth charges all around, the impacts of which were absorbed by the quay wall surrounding the slip. The DD even took up a sentry postion adjacent to the quay wall and waited a couple of hours to see if I would had the guts to make a run for it. (They thought we were playing "Where's Waldo?") My boat did not move, except once when I raised the the periscope. It finally left. When the coast was clear my boat escaped to open water with one injured and no damage. We sank three stationary freighters and left one on fire. A fourth freighter was sunk near the boat slip, probably by one of the boats that was gunning for mine.

[Hitman]

scurry at flank speed into the jap port neareste west entrance and moor, submerged, in one of its boat slips.

LOL this adds a new dimension to the idea of hide&seek :haha:

[Hitman]

Nisgeis: was just wondering if it would be possible, using a hexeditor, to copy all the entries for the new stuff added for the controllers and paste it into the conning tower file of another submarine :hmmm: Just in case it might speed up the extension of the mod to the other boats :DL

[Quagmire]

I was wondering that myself. I have been trying to catalog the difference between the TMO .sim files and the 3D TDC Mod .sim files in order to make a proper TMO 2.0 version. The 3D TDC mod is awesome but I hate losing the bells and whistles Ducimus worked to hard on in TMO when using it.

It would be nice if there was a "cut and paste" way to merge the two.
.

[Mescator]

I used Shift-F2 to get the interior free camera. You can wander into the conning tower, and not have to deal with the boat rocking. Problem is, every time you go back to the interior free cam, it resets the position to be back in the control room.

The other choice is to open up cameras.dat in S3D, locate the Dummy_Cam_ConningTower node, and remove the Mech Shocks Pendulum controller.

I'd just like to thank you for that Razark. Finally got around/Got annoyed enough to remove the node. Much better!

If anyone wants the Cameras.Dat and the modders have no objections i can upload it as a work around for the problem :)

[razark]

Bump!
(Because this just really deserves it.)

See also:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172535
(for the excellent training guide)

[Nisgeis]

Hmmm... maybe I could do that range to track indicator now...

[Wilcke]

Hmmm... maybe I could do that range to track indicator now...

Would be well received I am sure! There are still a few of us out here who are quietly enjoying this mod! Awesome!

How is the Sea Venom coming along?

[razark]

Would be well received I am sure! There are still a few of us out here who are quietly enjoying this mod! Awesome!
Yes, it would be well received indeed.

Oh, and Post #376 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1484320&postcount=376) would be great, too! :D

[Hitman]

I'd also like to see it all ported to the rest of the boats :up: Adding all the TMO/RFB later should be possible, even if a hard work. But not as hard as adding this TDC/Radar to TMO/RFB :88)

[razark]

Hmmm... maybe I could do that range to track indicator now...
Does the range to track show the distance from the boat to the track's closest point of approach, or does it show the distance from the boat to the point where the boat's course intersects the track?

[Nisgeis]

Closest Point. E.G. the point that is perpendicular to the track and goes through your boat.

[razark]

Closest Point. E.G. the point that is perpendicular to the track and goes through your boat.
That's what I figured it would be. It would be nice to have a distance to track on current course display, but if it's not something they had, then I can live without it.

[John Channing]

Hmmm... maybe I could do that range to track indicator now...

Ahem...

I repeat...

AHEM.



And if you are wondering how to make amends for leaving us hanging so long, the modification to the air search radar would be a good start.

JCC

[Ducimus]

*groan*

I forgot about this mod. I'd like to... and i know alot of other people would like to have it incorporated into TMO. (may I? ... Eventually..... :shifty: )

But I have to admit, i CRINGE at the amount of work its going to take. (not sure i have the patience to do it honestly) I'm also unsure of resource issues. System performance. At the very least id love the radar ranging unit, ideally the TDC as well, but im worried about lag/performance issues. It really pushed the game engine to its limits the one time i looked at it many moons ago.

[Bubblehead1980]

Oh I hope they say yes to your request ducimus.If cant get the TDC in, radar range unit/display would be amazing in TMO

[Mescator]

System performance. At the very least id love the radar ranging unit, ideally the TDC as well, but im worried about lag/performance issues. It really pushed the game engine to its limits the one time i looked at it many moons ago.

I didn't realize it used so much system =o I'll keep an eye on my usage charts next time I'm playing now!

[Nisgeis]

the modification to the air search radar would be a good start.

The problem with the air search radar is that it isn't modelled seperately, so it will always be wrong. You can have a range only version, but then when SV radar comes out you won't be able to have a PPI scope, so do you have a PPI scope all the time - the radar man will shout out a contacts bearing anyway. Also the 'air' radar will still pick up ships. I think it might all just be a bit too much of a muddle to make much sense of, when trying to use it. There's not really enough flexability in the engine to make it easy to use. I can see problems with any of the ways to get round any of the issues.

But I have to admit, i CRINGE at the amount of work its going to take. (not sure i have the patience to do it honestly) I'm also unsure of resource issues.

I didn't realize it used so much system =o I'll keep an eye on my usage charts next time I'm playing now!

After I realised it was going to be such a large amount of controllers, I started to set them up in a nested way, so there are only a few key nodes, apart from a few of the TDC things which are all over the place. It should be relatively easy to single out the Radar node and then everything else is set relative to the main placeholder node, so you can just move it about and all the other things move with it. The TDC controllers are a bit trickier, as I started out by putting the dial nodes in the sim file and the objects nodes in the .dat, but that's not good for easily picking them out. I'll sort through it and make it easy to extract when I p[ut it in the other interiors (soon(ish)).

My PC isn't that modern - it was new (and a good speed, but not blinding) a year after SH4 was released (as my previous PC couldn't play SH4 at more than 10 seconds per frame) and my PC doesn't show any signs of slowing down. I've only heard one person - IGD - saw that it slowed his system down and he's using a laptop from the time of the Pharoahs. Is anyone else having slowdowns? PE4 had a much more dramatic effect on my system.

[John Channing]

Never even a hiccup.

JCC

[Ducimus]

My memory is probably off. I only looked at it once, a long time ago. I was preoccupied with some thing or another at the time. (I usually am)

[NorthBeach]

Runs fine on my Mac via Boot Camp. So, my inclination is to say that it isn't that much of a system hog.

[Mescator]

Never even a hiccup.

JCC

+1

Same experience here.

[luismmm]

I have a problem using the metod to make Very Fine Adjustments (moving vertical) to fine tune the actual radar bearing.

The vertical movement until the target pip fade in and fade out give me a variation af arround 20 degrees in the actual radar bearing. If I make vertical adjustements wen the target pip is at is maximum, I also get a variation of 6 degrees in the actual radar bearing, and that is not good to define the target couse!

So, can someone explain me the best way to get the most accurate value for actual radar bearing, using the vertical movement to get the fine adjustment?

(dont say " the best is wen the pip is at is maximum" that dont work! as it maximum I get 6 degrees variation!)

It would be realy good if whe have a switch to send range and bearing to tdc, the switch would be used after get accurate range and bearing, is that hard to mod or you can do that easy Nisgeis? It would be a must in your mod!


http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/Nisgeis/SubSim/AScopeCloseUp.jpg

This one is the damned that is killing me :dead: fine tune and... +- 6 degrees (deviation error) in the Actual Radar Bearing value .... :cry:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/Nisgeis/SubSim/TrainBearingIndicator.jpg

[Roger Dodger]

Hey Gang,

Ducimus just announced that he will be including the 3D TDC mod in the new TMO v21 update. He says for Gato class boats, but the mod seems to work for me for any class sub that is equipped with surface search RADAR and a TDC.

God Bless Electric Boat

[I'm goin' down]

I gave up on the mod because it slowed play too much. I am thinking of taking it up again. Has anyone taken out a warship traveling in excess of 20 kts. using the mod? And have they done it without pausing the game?

[razark]

And have they done it without pausing the game?
I still haven't reached that point. I'm just getting back into playing after taking a break for a while, I've even switched contacts back on for a bit.

[I'm goin' down]

I gave up on the mod because it slowed play too much. I am thinking of taking it up again. Has anyone taken out a warship traveling in excess of 20 kts. using the mod? And have they done it without pausing the game?

I still haven't reached that point. I'm just getting back into playing after taking a break for a while, I've even switched contacts back on for a bit.

I thought about adding "Razark?" to my post. If you haven't mastered it, then I wonder if anyone has? BTW, on April 9, 1945, I tracked a Jap TF passing through a channel at the southern tip of Japan. It included one heavy cruiser and a Yamoto class BB. It was travelling at 29 kts., which I verified!! 29 kts!! The TF changed course on me, so I was unable to intercept.

[Yamato_NF]

Great mod! :salute:
its also great for modern sub mods as they did not even use a periscope often to acquire target solutions... (Radar + Sonar is used :yep:)
:D
ill test it with my standalone of Jhapprich's Typhoon.... just for kicks! :rotfl2::arrgh!:

[Nisgeis]

I thought about adding "Razark?" to my post. If you haven't mastered it, then I wonder if anyone has? BTW, on April 9, 1945, I tracked a Jap TF passing through a channel at the southern tip of Japan. It included one heavy cruiser and a Yamoto class BB. It was travelling at 29 kts., which I verified!! 29 kts!! The TF changed course on me, so I was unable to intercept.

Was there a question there IGD?

[Nisgeis]

This one is the damned that is killing me :dead: fine tune and... +- 6 degrees (deviation error) in the Actual Radar Bearing value .... :cry:



Sweep over the target and then step backwards (counter clockwise) as soon as the pip appears that's the bearing.

[I'm goin' down]

I gave up on the mod because it slowed play too much. I am thinking of taking it up again. Has anyone taken out a warship traveling in excess of 20 kts. using the mod? And have they done it without pausing the game?

I thought about adding "Razark?" to my post. If you haven't mastered it, then I wonder if anyone has? BTW, on April 9, 1945, I tracked a Jap TF passing through a channel at the southern tip of Japan. It included one heavy cruiser and a Yamoto class BB. It was travelling at 29 kts., which I verified!! 29 kts!! The TF changed course on me, so I was unable to intercept.

Was there a question there IGD?

My mistake. I meant to refer you to post 440 quoted in the first paragraph above. There are two questions contained in it. Razark replied that he had not used the 3D TDC under the circumstances posed by my questions. No one else stepped up to reply. I thought you might have used the mod to attack fast moving warships. I have a hard enough time using it against merchants, but I was thinking of giving it another shot (pun not intended.) The problem is that by the time I set up, a fast moving target will have sailed out of range. Have a great 4th of July, Nisgeis.

[razark]

Sweep over the target and then step backwards (counter clockwise) as soon as the pip appears that's the bearing.
I still find that this method gives me an incorrect bearing.

I step ahead until the contact disappears. I then step backward until the target reappears (three steps back), then forward two steps. That seems to get me pretty close to where it needs to be, or at least close enough for my plots to make sense.

It could be something wrong on my end, but as long as it is consistent, I can live with it. Once I can sight the target through the scope, I ignore the radar bearings anyway.
Optical bearing and radar range
The best combination will never change
Optical bearing and radar range
Then your plot shall never be strange.

[Nisgeis]

No, the pickup bearing range is just all weird - it's a game sensor thing - the sensor in question points at the bearing and the 'arc' of the sensor is added on to it, so if the radar is pointed at 000, and has an arc of 010 degrees, it will pick up anything between 000 and 010, even though it *SHOULD* pick up anything between 355 and 005. It's yet another bizarre game bug.

Added to that there's the 'stickiness' of the sensors - as you say razark, you can sweep back and then two steps forward - this is different at each 'edge' of the beam...

The radar (in this mod) is calibrated to be accurate when you step backwards... stepping forwards again until you lose the signal will put you off by about 2/3rds of a degree.

Also, you have to bear in mind that the radar targets are infinitely thin. If there is a warship parked 1,000 yards off your bow, with a large angular length, this is completely ignored by the radar system. It's only the centre (or wherever it is) part that registers as a 'target'.

You can target accurately in fog with radar bearings, but it takes longer and is much more work to get an accurate problem to shoot at.

[Nisgeis]

My mistake. I meant to refer you to post 440 quoted in the first paragraph above. There are two questions contained in it. Razark replied that he had not used the 3D TDC under the circumstances posed by my questions. No one else stepped up to reply. I thought you might have used the mod to attack fast moving warships. I have a hard enough time using it against merchants, but I was thinking of giving it another shot (pun not intended.) The problem is that by the time I set up, a fast moving target will have sailed out of range. Have a great 4th of July, Nisgeis.

Yes, but of course you have to be fast and accurate. There's no time for dithering. You'll know from sonar that you have a fast warship, so measure a rough course by taking two measurements within one minute. Plot it or use the auto course and speed to calculate a rough course - speed may be well off due to bearing errros. Immediately turn to a normal course to close the distance. Refine your measurements and adjust your spreads according to the confidence you have in your data - radar range is very accurate, optical bearings are very accurate, use the two together.

Sometimes though you will take your first measurements and realise that you are badly out of position. If so, run on the surface at full speed to end around if possible, but with a TF you won't be able to... UNLESS! You can use the map to work out where they are headed - e.g. through a geographical feature. If running with a traffic mod that includes zig zagging, then you may find that although you are out of position your target may zig into your path.

With fast TFs you won't often get a second chance, as they generally run at the same speed you can.

[John Channing]

Never even tried to hit a fast moving target.

Of course, if I had a "Distance to Track" readout...




:D

JCC

[razark]

I have been having a problem with the radar, and I have no indication it's related to this mod, but it's worth a shot. I've noticed no pattern with it, except maybe it occurs after I've been on patrol for a while.

Sometimes, I'll be patrolling along, and my crew will not alert me to any radar contact. I'll suddenly drop out of time compression, with the "We're under attack! We're taking damage!" messages, as shells are falling all around me. I'll look around and have a destroyer charging at me, or a Maru weaving back and forth. Checking the radar clearly shows the contact, but the game acts like it's not even there.

Anyone familiar with this issue? As I said, no pattern. It's not any one particular ship, and I've seen it happen, and a little while later, on my way back to base for the inevitable repairs, I'll get a radar contact reported on the exact same class of ship. I've never seen it happen with aircraft, though.

[Nisgeis]

The crew does not see what the radar does, as they are modelled as two seperate systems. This is also why people complain that they can hear something on the hydrophone, but their crew can't.

I think also the game uses a simplified system for detection when you TC, so let's say that the game is constantly checking when in TC 1, at higher TCs it time slices the checks and doesn't move your sub through all the points on the line. If you were going at high TC, then the game 'moves' your sub along your course by however many yards or miles you would have travelled in that time. I think the faster your PC the more time slices it does (but I have no proof) so the jerkier your PC gets the worse the detection will be. If you are 20 miles away from a TF and it moves your sub 10 miles in one time slice then when it checks that position it will create the TF and place you 10 miles from it. But it only drops TC when the ships get in range that your crew or the enemy crew can see you and then it drops to TC 1.

Ducimus will be able to tell you all able the sensors and what tricks they play. I'm just a simple S3D jockey.

[Nisgeis]

Never even tried to hit a fast moving target.

Of course, if I had a "Distance to Track" readout...

Soon (TM)! I think the British system for range to track may be better than the US version, so I'm wondering whether to do it historically accurate, or more useful. The US version only goes up to 8,000 yards due to the design and the Biritsh version goes up to more range but might be harder to read.

[John Channing]

Might as well go accurate.

Otherwise I am going to start harrassing you for the innacurate SD/SJ radar range mod too!




Plus an SJ/TDC digital range readout greater than 9,999 would be nice...

JCC

[Nisgeis]

Got a quick question regarding the use of the mod. Do people use the generated dials (the green dials) for range and bearing, or are they superfluous?

[razark]

Got a quick question regarding the use of the mod. Do people use the generated dials (the green dials) for range and bearing, or are they superfluous?
Are you referring to the dials at the radar station?

If so, I never use those dials. I find them too hard to read under red lighting, so I've gotten to the point that I will just ignore them.

[I'm goin' down]

I saw the 3D TDC radar range unit as it flashed on the screen in Run Silent Run Deep. The movie must have copied Nisgeis' mod.:D

[John Channing]

Got a quick question regarding the use of the mod. Do people use the generated dials (the green dials) for range and bearing, or are they superfluous?

Use them.

JC

[berobispo]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but is there any chance to disable the 3d tdc in order to free some cpu? I really like the radar ranging tool, but the conning tower fps are terribly low on my rig...

EDIT: btw, I'm running TMO2.5 at the moment, like OTC so maybe waiting for CapnScurvy to publish an update of OTC will do the trick anyway=)

[mido]

Is there a version which works with RFB + RSRDC? Sorry for the question but there is no README in the download.

[Roger Dodger]

I saw the 3D TDC radar range unit as it flashed on the screen in Run Silent Run Deep. The movie must have copied Nisgeis' mod.:D

There's also a pretty good shot of the TDC in the mini-series "War and Remembrance" ("Winds of War" part 2). Also, the S-Boat was featured in "Winds of War" (part 1), as well as "U-571". You don't see S-Boats very often.

[Bubblehead1980]

Think we could get a 23 TDC for the porpoise control room that works with TMO 2.5. Radar would be nice also but would settle for the 3-D TDC.

[Egan]

I've just come back to SH4 after two or three years since I last played it and discovered this mod as part of TMO.

Wow.

:up:

That is all.

One thing, is there a hot key or something to take you to the TDC screen quickly?

[evrolicious2]

just installed this mod and loving it! although i'm having a pretty serious ctd issue with it. when playing without the mod everything goes fine, but i've noticed that when i have the mod installed if my boat takes any damage then i instantly get a ctd. i've tried this in stock 1.4 version of the game and in TMO for 1.4. any help would be greatly appreciated. i dont wanna go back to playing without this!

[razark]

...stock 1.4 version...
TMO for 1.4.
Upgrade to 1.5.

1.5 changed a lot of stuff, and that means most mods won't work with 1.4.

[evrolicious2]

working on that now :yeah:

[Bilge_Rat]

After taking the time to learn this, this is a really great mod, tracking ships on radar is really fun. :arrgh!:

[Beardmoresam]

Hi guys

Having issues with my mouse wheel on the bearings for radar.
For one movement on the mouse wheel, my radar rotates [Edit - 2.8 deg]. So unless I am lucky enough for my target bearing to be a (multiple of 2.8) deg from the bearing the radar stopped sweeping at, I am unable to get accurate target bearings.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Sam

[Bilge_Rat]

for those who might not be aware of it, I wanted to bump what is IMHO the best mod ever made for this game.

In my current TMO campaign, jan. 44, tracking a single merchant at night, using radar alone and tracking plots on the Nav map, I have worked out target course and speed and confirmed that data in the TDC without even having to ID the target or use the stadimeter.

now comes the fun part. :arrgh!:

[razark]

now comes the fun part.
Checking the log after you sank it to find out it was a Victory Ship?


This really is one of those mods that fundamentally changes how you play the game. If you haven't tried it, go for it.

[james_nix]

Man, I wish there was an OTC version. The TDC combined with the fixed cameras and omnimeter would really be great for no map contacts play.

[Bilge_Rat]

Turned out to be the "Akita Maru", 4,000 tons, on the Japan-Truk route. Sank it with 3 electric torps, bit of an overkill, but this is 1944. So nice not to have to worry about duds anymore. :arrgh!:

Lucked out again, received a radio message of convoy headed my way, plotted an intercept course and now 13 hours later am tracking it on radar (see screenshot).

4 pips at 220 degrees, 25,000 yds.

Instructions on using the radar can be a bit confusing. I have worked out the following procedure:

1. on the PPI screen, use "focus" and "prec" mode to highlight the target, in this case the middle ship in the convoy;

2. switch to the A-screen, rotate the range wheel out to the estimated range until you see the pips, you now have the exact range in yds/nm on the left and the exact bearing on top.

..the only question now is do I risk a daylight periscope attack or wait until night and attack on the surface. choices, choices. :ping:

edit: decided to wait for a night attack, now positioned well ahead of the convoy, out of sight, tracking on radar. I am matching course/speed to get that out of the way.

You can use the A-scope to refine the solution. Match estimated course/speed with the target, (in my case a specific ship in the middle of the convoy), then watch if the range closes or opens up, and make the necessary adjustments. As others have pointed out, this mod is a mini-game in itself.

convoy course/speed: SSE 138 degrees, 11 knots.

to be continued...

[Kilo]

Is this mod compatible with TMO 2.5?

EDIT: Already answered.

[Bilge_Rat]

So now tracking the convoy and want to determine exact course and speed. Initial radio message was "convoy, course SSE, speed 11 kts", but there is usually a fudge factor.

First step to tracking a target is to use the NAV map. I start plotting data on to the map as soon as possible. I get the radar data: bearing and range, plot it on the map and then go back to the radar to check my solution. Initially this is done every 10 minutes. From the NAV map plots, I see a possible solution of course 138 SSE and speed 12 kts (see NAV 1 and 2).

I then mirror the exact course and speed in the sub (138 degrees, 12 kts) and check the solution. The radar does not budge over 20 minutes (see Radar Plot 2 and 3), so I know course and speed are good.

Data on the NAV map and the Radar confirm each other so you know the solution is good. Always better to have multiple data sources.

so now we know course and speed, which gives us AOB and speed, so 2 out of 3 data points needed for a firing solution. Radar will supply the range, but that is for later.

Now it's time to speed ahead and setup the interception.

to be continued.

[Hitman]

Good job Bilge Rat sink em all :salute:

Only thing missing for the perfect immersion is the maneuvering board overlay :up:

[razark]

Only thing missing for the perfect immersion is the maneuvering board overlay
Overlay?

http://www.amazon.com/Maneuvering-Board-Celestaire/dp/B00OGOCFKO

From the description: "It is almost indispensable if you want to fire a torpedo and expect to get a hit."

[aanker]

I have these in jpg format that you can print out - ( #2 on a large printer), if you are interested:
#1:
DMA 5090
1275 x 1318 Pixels
Print size 21.6 x 22.3 cm; 8.5 x 8.8 inches
-
and a larger:
#2
DMA 5090
1939 x 2003 Pixels
Print size 32.8 x 33.9 cm; 12.9 x 13.4 inches
-
also a 124 page PDF for the 5090

Happy Hunting!

[Bilge_Rat]

so continuing my intercept, I sped south lost contact with the convoy at 30,000 yds and regained it 50 minutes later (radar plot 4).

Unfortunately it was not where I expected, so I spent the next hour plus re-tracking it to re-establish the new course/speed: 147 degrees, 8 knots (NAV 4).

I then moved to intercept, I was hoping to do a radar only attack, but that is difficult with a convoy. The pips are too grouped together on the PPI. The range is accurate (radar plot 5), but the bearing can be up to 2-3 degrees off.

Once the convoy gets close, things also move very fast, even when you pause liberally and I wound up doing a visual periscope attack. There were 2 escorts and 2 Nagara Maru types. Since I never totally trust the stadimeter and was a bit far for my taste, I decided to shoot a spread of 5 torps at one "Nagara".

Fortunately, since I had taken the time to plot course and speed by radar, I could plot the estimated course on the map (Nav 5) and use it as a sanity test. TDC also confirmed the solution was good.

It turned out was worried for nothing since all 5 hit (payday 1)(control room 1).

[Bilge_Rat]

after the last attack, I dove, escaped from the escort, resurfaced and took off again after the remaining "Marus". I wanted to see if I could do a real time radar only surface attack. Again, I took the time to plot course/speed by radar which gave me course: 178 degrees, speed: 8 knots.

so once AOB and speed have been plugged in, use radar to pick up the target (PPI 1), switch to A scope to obtain range (A scope 1), switch to TBT and as long as it is set to the range dial, inputting the range will send the radar range to the TDC (TBT 1).

Notice how the A scope gives the same bearing as the TBT. This is not always the case, but it works well as long as you use the actual visual bearing from the TBT. You will also notice that I do not bother to ID the target.

After that it is just a matter of updating the radar range periodically and comparing the TDC data to the target.

I wound up mishandling the approach and fired from too far away, around 3,500 yds (attack map 1 and 2, TBT 2). Fired a 5 torp spread, one hit (payday 2). Not perfect, but it does show the solution is good.

time to practice some more...:arrgh!:

[gandyrail]

Am surprised that you did not patch and use the mini program which sends bearing as used in sonar So would not have to point scope
The range, OK, I have been searching for a way/how to do that with Radar - figured since surface ships had radar fire control, the boats would have had it to.

good job :yeah:

[hunter301]

Is the V1.02 the latest and greatest of this mod?
Can I download it by itself to the V1.5 with Uboat missions or do I have to use one of the mod editors I here about?
Am getting so sick of the PK device screwing me up.
When I tell radar to send target bearing to TDC every time I hit the button on "bearing to TDC" my own ship on the PK does a dance around the dial moving about 10 degrees each time I hit the button.
What's up with that?

[propbeanie]

v1.02 is it. It's been forever since I noodled with it, but I had to make myself a pdf of Nisgeis' first post instructions and sit in front of the computer with the game running, with liberal use of the pause button. I even made myself a SingleMission with just a docked ship sitting in the southeast Pacific, nothing else around except my Balao, and practiced the radar with it. I forgot it all the next day... :roll: - but seriously, it is a lot to remember, and takes practice. All of the functionality does not work, and when your boat bounces around on the dial, you've probably got invalid data. Be sure you have it activated correctly in JSGME. That's all you should need to run it in SH4 v1.5, with no other mods... for now - oh! do not use an old save game from before having activated the mod... :salute:

[hunter301]

v1.02 is it. It's been forever since I noodled with it, but I had to make myself a pdf of Nisgeis' first post instructions and sit in front of the computer with the game running, with liberal use of the pause button. I even made myself a SingleMission with just a docked ship sitting in the southeast Pacific, nothing else around except my Balao, and practiced the radar with it. I forgot it all the next day... :roll: - but seriously, it is a lot to remember, and takes practice. All of the functionality does not work, and when your boat bounces around on the dial, you've probably got invalid data. Be sure you have it activated correctly in JSGME. That's all you should need to run it in SH4 v1.5, with no other mods... for now - oh! do not use an old save game from before having activated the mod... :salute:

I want to be able to bounce back and forth between the attack periscope and the new 3D TDC so I can really see what's going on. I'm hoping with this I get more accurate information.
I'm so sick of that damned PK giving me false information all the time. It's more like looking at a Quija board.
If you click on "send bearing to TDC" it moves your "own ship" on the PK dial around in a circle each time you click it.