Giants on IX-type Boats in SH3

[Kapitän]

Hi,

Has anyone also noticed, that the crew members on the bridge of a type IX-boat, are about twice the height they should be?

In reality, any crew member was only able to just edge der chin over the top of the conning tower wall.

In SH3 however (F4 and External View), the top of the bridge reaches the crew members mid section.

For a comparison, I added these shots, one of a IX-type boat in SH3 and one of the bridge of U-126 (IX-C):

http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9ba0c166bd997c4b43a23aa6be5b97cf5g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=z0woitirobz&thumb=4)


http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bfdde0a656f467bb2e379b6301eb7d725g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=mzmjhmyzmdz&thumb=4)


http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b60a8bef2a91cb7a9b0336ca8fffdec15g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=wkwilagyotw&thumb=4)

[Madox58]

They are sitting down Mate.
:haha:
Check this image from a post here at SubSim!

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7726/u869lekiosqueetsonemblm.jpg

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149950&page=20

[pickinthebanjo]

They are sitting down Mate.
:haha:

thats what I figured.

[Madox58]

I have MANY technical specs on the U-Boats.
And I have checked the scaleing for doing 3D Models.
They are pretty damn close in Game, to real life.

Pictures say a thousand words.
But the viewer may hear them wrong.
:)

[GOZO]

-"Get Shorty":D

[BUKER]

Hi privateer!
Let me disagree with you!
There are lots of photos ...

U-177...
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9983/u1772.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2016/u1771.jpg

[FIREWALL]

@BUKER That crewmember was known as... " Shorty Schmidt " :03:

[Kapitän]

@ Buker: Thanks for your support. Great pic, by the way.

You are right, there are a host of pictures out there that proof, that the average size person, standing on the base of the conning tower (and not on any piece of equipment elevating him), could just peek his head above the bridge. This is even more so the fact, in the case of the larger IX-D2 boats.

@ privateer: I would be interested in the actual measurment of the distance from the conning tower floor to the top of the bridge. If you could make that available, that would be great.

[Kapitän]

Hello Everyone,

I did some research and this is what I found:

The measurement of the Bridge Floor to the Conning Tower Top Edge was exactley 1600 mm, which translated to 5 ft 3 inch.

Source: Technical Layout Schematic of a IX C (1941) type boat, Geschichte des deutschen U-Bootbaus (History of German Submarine Construction), Eberhard Rössler, Volume 1

So, everyone can do their one math, as to what that means in terms of scales, heights and sizes.

One thing is for certain, however: According to this, each SH3 Bridge Crew Member is at least 1,90 m or 6 ft 3 inch tall. I just don't think, that this was the average height of german submarine crews.

[thoomsn]

Moin!
Buker and Kapitän are right. The bridges of our type 9 subs are NOT correctly modelled. Or: The crew guys are much to tall as Kapitän wrote. Standing on the bridge your ellbows should lay on the edge of the command tower. That's what I experienced standing on the bridge of U 995 (in Laboe/Kiel). And I'am 1,8 m tall.

Regards;
thoomsn

[Kapitän]

Moin!
Buker and Kapitän are right. The bridges of our type 9 subs are NOT correctly modelled. Or: The crew guys are much to tall as Kapitän wrote. Standing on the bridge your ellbows should lay on the edge of the command tower. That's what I experienced standing on the bridge of U 995 (in Laboe/Kiel). And I'am 1,8 m tall.

Regards;
thoomsn

Thanks, thoomsn! Plus the U-995 is a type VII-boat and I believe, the conning tower and bridge of those boats were smaller than those of the type IX-boats.

The question I have is, how much work would it be to change the dimensions of the type IX-boat and or bridge crew in sh3 (perhaps, there is already some work being done on that)?

[BUKER]

Hi Kapitän and thoomsn!:)
This is quite obvious! Its not even worth discussing ...
To say that everything in the photo "Shorty" is ridiculous ...:har:

P.S.But very few people need!
And no remake is, alas, will not.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7750/46401174.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5065/50922535.jpg
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/306/44750014.jpg

[Kapitän]

Thanks, BUKER! Would it be easier, "just" to make the crew on the bridge smaller?

[LGN1]

Is it clear which objects have the wrong size? Is the sub/conning tower too small or the crew too big?

I guess the crew is the same as on the VIIC conning tower so the IXC sub/conning tower would be too small :06: Does the size of the VIIC and the size of the IXC in-game match?

Cheers, LGN1

[Kapitän]

Is it clear which objects have the wrong size? Is the sub/conning tower too small or the crew too big?

I guess the crew is the same as on the VIIC conning tower so the IXC sub/conning tower would be too small :06: Does the size of the VIIC and the size of the IXC in-game match?

Cheers, LGN1

Well, probably both. I tend to think however, that the crew members on the Conning Tower are "simply" too big. You can also see that on the height of the UZO: Any crew member would have to go on its knees, to look through that.

And it doesn't end there:

In order to match the AA-Guns with the already too big crew, the AA-Guns on the Conning Tower are "ginormus" in realation to the rest of the boat.

So, I believe what needs to be done is:

Reduce in size, the Crew Members and the AA-Guns on the Conning Tower.

[Sailor Steve]

I do believe that rescaling crew members will mess up the rest of the game, as they are all, on the bridge and in the control room, the same figures. Forgive me for reposting pictures alread posted in this same thread, but I'd like to make some comparisons.

In this in-game shot the guy on the right is standing on an elevated viewing platform, which all u-boats had. The man on the left is not overly tall.

http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9ba0c166bd997c4b43a23aa6be5b97cf5g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=z0woitirobz&thumb=4)

In this first photograph some are obviously standing on the viewing platforms, others are indeed smaller, but the man with the pipe has the railing come to his armpits, about the same as the man on the left in the screenshot.

http://www3.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bfdde0a656f467bb2e379b6301eb7d725g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=mzmjhmyzmdz&thumb=4)

Same with the second shot in that series: the guy marked is only chin-high, but the man on the right is armpit-high.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2016/u1771.jpg

In this one the man on the wintergarten is marked, but everyone on the bridge is at least armpit-high to the railing.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5065/50922535.jpg

Changing the crew height is extremely difficult, probably hard-coded. Should they change the entire conning tower? Should you do it yourself?

[LGN1]

Hi Sailor Steve,

thanks for your comments! I agree with you that the man on the left looks fine. However, I don't think the one on the right is standing on an elevated platform. Aren't the two boards at his leg (at his knee and below) the platforms?

I also think that rescaling the crew members is not possible without a huge amount of work. At the moment I am just interested in what might have a wrong size/scale. For me the crew looks strange on the IX turm :06: Given that blue prints of the IX exist, I doubt the sub has wrong proportions. Maybe a 3d guru might shed some light on it.

Anyway, as long as no one agrees about what might be off, there is no need to think about who will do what ;) BTW, who do you refer to as 'they'?

Cheers, LGN1

[Kapitän]

Well, what can I say. Obviously, different men are of different height, so, some will be able to peer over the top edge of the bridge more or less easily than others. My guess is, that a man about 6ft tall and not elevated by any means, could just peer over the edge of the bridge, of a type IX-boat.

http://www2.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/61df6082f1b5061c7baf3d64d7f6a3115g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0y0nmmnhmmm&thumb=4)
(Another image of U-126)

Unfortunetly, I am not a modder or graphic designer and can therefore, not contibute anything to that part of the discussion but in my estimation, the bridge would have to be enlarged or at least the top edge of the bridge has to be raised - in my view, the type VII-boat and bridge is well proportioned in SH3.

[Sailor Steve]

My guess is, that a man about 6ft tall and not elevated by any means, could just peer over the edge of the bridge, of a type IX-boat.
But is the man in that picture 6 ft or 5 ft 4 in? I'm not saying you're wrong, because I certainly don't know and have never been on the conning tower of any of these boats. I just don't like to jump into things until I have all the facts.

As I said, I'm not sure any of these things can be changed in SH3, and certainly no modder either.

[BUKER]

Sorry if the question boring ...
But this can be corrected in the game?

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4640/77244586.png
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4986/51861363.png

SH-3...:-?

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5425/333nd.jpg

[Kapitän]

Exactley, if the IX-bridge in SH3 would have at least the dimensions of the VII-bridge in SH3, it would already be a step forward ...