SH5 customer feedback [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

jdkbph

06-01-10, 06:21 PM

There has been some debate as to what would be an appropriate way to show dissatisfaction with SH5. Some believe voting with your wallet, by itself, is adequate. Others would have us vote with our wallets then send private communications (email, etc) to UBI.

While I agree that poor sales does send a message, I happen to feel that a more public display of dissatisfaction is necessary. Otherwise poor sales, due to DRM and/or poor quality/design, can too easily be explained away as a lack of subject matter interest.

So here's a poll. It is not about whether SH5 is good or bad. It presupposes that you are not happy with SH5. If you are happy with SH5 there is no reason for you to participate. What I'm trying to get at here is a definitive view as to why SH5 has been received so poorly by a substantial portion of this community.

Please select all statements that apply to you.

If any sort of conclusion can be drawn from the results of this poll, I intend to forward the data to UBI and post on-line wherever appropriate.

Thanks in advance.

JD

tonschk

06-01-10, 07:08 PM

I Really LOVE the :rock: Silent Hunter 5 :salute: , and I think is a AWESOME Simulator , I am going to buy also the Collector Edition , I will buy also the GOLD SH5 Edition to Support :rock: UBISOFT :yeah:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3515/rtuyjjjjjjj.png (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/rtuyjjjjjjj.png/)

Reaves

06-01-10, 07:22 PM

Ubisoft failed to meet my requirements with SH5.

Unifinished product upon release (as usual)

Delayed patches with no communication that didn't deliver all that was promised.

Paid for on day of release. SHould have waited for the discount bin version when it might be in a state worthy of selling.

Ubisoft have lost all credibility to me. I will feel no remorse when :arrgh!: their games.

kylania

06-01-10, 08:20 PM

You notably left out "I have purchased SH5 but am happy with it despite <insert problem>" options. I'm unhappy with the problems listed, but I'm not unhappy with the game.

Moeceefus

06-01-10, 08:26 PM

You notably left out "I have purchased SH5 but am happy with it despite <insert problem>" options. I'm unhappy with the problems listed, but I'm not unhappy with the game.

i second this. nice to see another rehashed hate thread though. always so fun and constructive. :yawn:

Madox58

06-01-10, 08:28 PM

I have posted in this thread because there's nothing better to do at this moment.
:har:

Reece

06-01-10, 08:38 PM

I have posted in this thread because there's nothing better to do at this moment.
:har:Me to!!:har:

JScones

06-01-10, 08:48 PM

jdkbph

06-01-10, 08:55 PM

You notably left out "I have purchased SH5 but am happy with it despite <insert problem>" options. I'm unhappy with the problems listed, but I'm not unhappy with the game.

Actually I mentioned why I left that out in the first post. This is not a SH5 is great vs SH5 sucks poll.... it's a WHY I am disappointed with SH5 poll. Obviously that presupposes that you are dissatisfied. If you are happy with the game, you need not respond here.

Thanks

JD

V.C. Sniper

06-01-10, 10:08 PM

have not purchased because of poor quality and or design

SurfnSea

06-01-10, 11:12 PM

I've not voted yet as there are two or three that apply yet we can choose only one. For instance, I have not bought SH5 and will not as long as DRM is part of it. If it's taken out? Probably. There is also the quality issues being a reason for not buying and I could choose that one too. Additionally there is no choice regarding the shoddy customer service/lack of respect for their customers or potential buyers.

I am for sure voting with my money. We also have a Wii system at home and do not buy UBI for the Wii as well as the pc.

jwilliams

06-01-10, 11:38 PM

I have purchased SH5 and Im disapointed that the game has been released in an "unfinished state".
I like playing the game now that i have it modded.
So UBI could have done better IMO.

i've accepted the fact that i need to be on-line to play. I've not had any problems connecting to play.
But I'm still not happy about it.

Egan

06-02-10, 05:40 AM

Due to what I know about the design of the game it simply doesn't interest me . I'm no longer willing to spend money on a title that does not provide what I am looking for. As I've said before, I'll poney up the cash even if I'm not 100%, as long as it's a decent small developer and it's going in the right direction. Ubi is not a small developer, though, and the franchise no longer seems to be going in the right direction. There are other games out there that will get my money instead. Simple as that.

kvbrock82

06-02-10, 05:51 AM

I frankly will avoid all UBI products unless the specific title holds a big interest to me. In that case, i will wait for the price to drop sharply and pick it up in the bargain bin at 15% of UBI's usual inflated prices.

robbo180265

06-02-10, 06:01 AM

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/robbo180265/deja-vu-1-1024.jpg

JU_88

06-02-10, 06:19 AM

I selected "I have not purchased SH5 because of poor quality and/or design", but just to clarify, I *do* own a copy of the game, courtesy of Ubisoft. I just won't be installing it until Ubisoft (LOL) or modders improve the quality and provide something that, at least beyond the graphics (yes, we know they are the best thing :up:EVA:woot::yeah::rock: but I'm a substance over style person), betters what I already have with a heavily modded SH3.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed the graphics are lovely and they are also essential, but they certainly do not compensate for what is lacking in SHV.

As for playing it, well Ive gone one further than Jaeson, I have it installed so I can poke about the files, but I dont play it and wont bother until its the best it can possibly be.
I will be doing my little bit towards SHV's improvment - I have a bunch of GWX 4 stuff that is still homeless.
I hope the devs will at the very least give us an expansion with the Type 9 and 43-45...

Oh yeah -BOB 'storm of war' should be out soonish anyway, that will tie me over. :up:

Lister471

06-02-10, 06:22 AM

I voted for the last option, i have never played Sh3 or Sh4 so for me Sh5 is just fine also with the mods now about it has made the game even more fun for me. So i am more than happy with it whether it's finished or not makes little difference has no game i have ever bought has ever been finished anyway. Maybe beta tested abit better but eh. I got the game for £12 online so i am more than happy, considering the time i have spent playing, the people i have meet its well worth the money.

If i had one wish it would have been for a better online system, has i think the game would be even more fun playing online. But the current way the online side seems to work is well not very good.

TwistedFemur

06-02-10, 06:43 AM

How many times are we going to beat this dead horse?

But since you asked 1 and 2 are my reasons for not buying it

janh

06-02-10, 06:50 AM

Hmmh, you need to include positive options as well, and not order them like this, which can "induce" certain answering patterns...

Anyway, I think if you read through a few of the older posts, you'll immediately see that the "incompleteness" and bugginess of the game has been a disappointment even beyond the OSP-DRM. The combination was a killer, and I am sure on today Ubisoft will leak the sales numbers of this title, which will proof that this combination can kill a business. However, Ubi marketing and produce quality management has gotten too much of the words "profit" and "dividend" to have learned this from the previous disaster, SHIV. Well, judging from the communication and slow step of patching of SHV, they must have gotten it now.

The General

06-02-10, 06:54 AM

Things that need fixin' in Stock v1.2:

1: Sonar (kind of important in a Submarine Sim). I want the Sonar as functional as it was in SH4, are we going backwards here or what?!

2: Animations, Crew and Keyboard Commands are unfinished. Once I've heard the Watch Officer tell me about his bloody kids, I don't EVER wanna hear about them again.

3: Collision detection. 3D models should never pass through one another. Ships sailing through the countryside and sinking straight through the ocean floor is unacceptable.

4: No Subnets or Mine fields, really?!

5: AI problems including:

a) Aircraft don't attack. I don't care what their apparent orders were in the early War. If you were flying along and saw an enemy Sub attacking a helpless Merchant and you had ammunition, you would do something.

b) Communication between aircraft and surface vessels. If an aircraft spots you, he should alert all nearby surface vessels and vice versa.

c) Escorts need to be launching Starshells (at night) and dropping DC's on the spot they spot a periscope.

7: On again-off again camoflage textures on all vessels.

8: Saves that include the ongoing damage inflicted upon shipping, including the location of ships sunk during that mission. Hell, make 'em present on the map permanently as a badge of honor.

9: Why is the scope automatically going up at the start of a mission or when I click on the Attack scope? I didn't authorise that! It doesn't go up until I say so, clear?!

10: More crew onboard the Sub. Animations exist where a crewman in a top bunk is talking to no one in the bunk below. Or is he just crazy?

Zedi

06-02-10, 07:10 AM

...
9: Why is the scope automatically going up at the start of a mission or when I click on the Attack scope? I didn't authorise that! It doesn't go up until I say so, clear?!
...
Somebody here already answered on that and was epic: "The sub is happy to see you!" :D

Anyway, the topic title is a bit wrong, should be "Unhappy SH5 customer feedback" as the poll has only negative feedback options.

McHibbins

06-02-10, 07:19 AM

Unhappy with SH5 and won´t play it anymore until a new campaign is modded.
But that....won´t be happen I bet !

oscar19681

06-02-10, 09:26 AM

I,m not generaly unhappy with sh-5 i enjoy it at times esspecially with the mods and all. I dont like the drm thing but i learned to live with it. The most destubring thing to me is the fact that its an unfinished product and the latest patch didnt fix 80% that was promissed. I never downloaded such a poor patch even for the worst games i played. Also the lack of communication with the community in general i find deeply unsatisfying.

Steeltrap

06-02-10, 11:58 PM

[deleted post]

jimbob

06-03-10, 01:12 AM

I got really crappy net-connection, like lights on a car, on and off all the time.
That's what I get livin' in teh woods I guess. Or maybe it's ISP, I dunno but its bad.

I will not buy any Ubis Online Only games.

I might give SH5 a go if the online-crap is removed and I can wait couple of years.
I doubt it will never happen' since they got all games going for it.
Mods are cool but they don't even enter the equation before I buy the game.

Also, Im hoping the price is then about 5 bucks.
I'd like to pay for what it's worth and I got other holes to throw money at.
A set of guitar strings I use costs about 8€ and I need to change those quite often,
especially now in the summer time when things are gettin sweaty, hehe.
I have several guitars, 4 of them I use the most of the time so you do the math.

Well, maybe there's couple of patches coming up but im not counting on it
and currently the game seems bonked, from what I read in forums.

There's plenty of other games, like SH3 or SH4 where I can get my naval fix.

So there. Honest truth, nothin' more to it.

:)

John W. Hamm

06-03-10, 05:20 AM

How many times are we going to beat this dead horse?

But since you asked 1 and 2 are my reasons for not buying it

As many as it takes... but glad to see we are eye to eye on it.

Bilge_Rat

06-03-10, 11:09 AM

how long can someone continue hating a game they do not own or play?

SH5 came out 3 months ago.

I played it for the first 2 months. I have now moved on to other things and am planning to come back when it is more extensively patched and modded, which is what I also did for SH3 and SH4.

Now that I no longer play it, I rarely visit or post in the SH5 forum.

However I see many of the same posters who do not own or play the game are still busily discussing how horrible it is.

I mean, c'mon guys, give it a rest! SH5 is here to stay whether you like it or not. Is'nt there something more productive or entertaining you could be doing? :arrgh!:

SteelViking

06-03-10, 11:21 AM

danurve

06-03-10, 11:33 AM

Bilge_Rat

06-03-10, 11:39 AM

Bilge Rat interesting post, but I think you left out one catergory that seems to represent about 25%, according to the poll.

I don't hate the game by the way, but feedback is feedback after all. And in that manner, for as long as it takes or never if that's the way ubi has it.

http://www.pathfinderfishandgame.com/images/drm_turd.jpg

just my personal opinion.:|\\

I just feel we keep rehashing the same points over and over again. At least the rethoric looks like it has been dialed down

609_Avatar

06-03-10, 12:02 PM

Well I mistakenly hit the submit button too quickly before I got to finish voting. :( I voted the I have not bought SHV because of the always online requirement. I also want to vote for the options that I will buy it if/when that requirement is removed and I will not buy any of their future products that have this always online requirement. Sorry for screwing up.

yelrom treblig

06-03-10, 12:56 PM

i purchased silent hunter 5 i should have held back, till they finished it.
could ubisoft be made to refund as the game falls short of their claims, see there ad. krap krap ubisoft.

kylania

06-03-10, 01:05 PM

As many as it takes... but glad to see we are eye to eye on it.

Takes to do what? :roll:

robbo180265

06-03-10, 01:07 PM

Takes to do what? :roll:

Making sure that we all really understand that the DRM sux M'Kay.

kylania

06-03-10, 01:10 PM

Making sure that we all really understand that the DRM sux M'Kay.

Yeah, that's been established already:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/115/cmtok.jpg

robbo180265

06-03-10, 01:20 PM

^^^

Lol @ Captain Patchy:har:

mobucks

06-03-10, 08:11 PM

I have purchased SH5 from Impulse and went about getting a refund the second day i had it. Then it finally went through contesting the charge like a day before patch 2.

O well i'll biy it at the new lower price sometime wehn i get arounf to it.

Brag

06-03-10, 09:09 PM

Yeah, that's been established already:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/115/cmtok.jpg

Right, Kylandia,
It is now easier to get a FREE pirated copy of SH5 than screwing around with UBI's DRM/OSP forever online crap.:D

IanC

06-03-10, 09:49 PM

i purchased silent hunter 5 i should have held back, till they finished it.
could ubisoft be made to refund as the game falls short of their claims, see there ad. krap krap ubisoft.

yelrom treblig may I ask, did you not read some of the reviews and posts here about SH5?
I try to post the truth whenever I can about the game, so that newcomers like yourself know exactly what they'd spend their money on, and don't get fooled.

Adriatico

06-04-10, 07:36 AM

I have posted in this thread because there's nothing better to do at this moment.
:har:

:yawn: ...me too.

These % make a total of 151.55%...WTF ? (04.06.2010 14.40pm CET)

Nisgeis

06-04-10, 08:51 AM

These % make a total of 151.55%...WTF ? (04.06.2010 14.40pm CET)

It's a multiple choice poll, so the percentages won't add up.

Riana

06-05-10, 01:29 AM

Sailor Steve

06-05-10, 01:52 AM

Well, I have a problem with that. If they had delivered a finished game that worked well, you would probably be right. Those of us who won't buy it because of the DRM would be sitting here questioning whether we made the right decision as we watched everybody else having the time of their lives. But now we sit here watching the majority of owners complain about this or that problem. Some like it in spite of the problems, some don't like it but are sure they will once the problems are fixed, and some claim there are no problems at all and it's perfect.

And some question whether there should be any more since this one continues the long chain of games that have problems.

And then there are the ones like me. Morally I think this thing is wrong. I bought SH2 sight unseen and suffered through all the horrors, and appreciated the good that came later, such as it was. I bought SH3 and lived through the complaints and the patches. I bought SH4 when I was homeless and wouldn't even be able to play it for another year, just to support the company and the genre.

So should I buy SH5 just to guarantee there's an SH6 which might have the same or even worse problems? I would have, but for the DRM. That's because half the time I can't afford an internet connection. So should I support them when they tell me I'm not allowed to play it? What's the point of that?

Right now I have a great connection, but a lot of others don't. Should I abandon them just because my situation is temporarily improved? Should I support something that to me is just plain unethical, immoral and wrong?

I do support the game. I appear in the SH5 forums regularly, not complaining but cheering for the mods and supporting people who are having a good time. But I can't justify givin UBI my money and playing it myself while they continue to fight piracy by not allowing me, or anyone else with a problem connection, to play the game. It's not fair and it's not right.

But as soon as that restriction is lifted I will buy it, bugs, warts and all. I believe it has a bright future and I want to lend my hand in whatever capacity I can to help make it so.

I don't feel wounded, and your opinion is as good as anybody else's.

tonschk

06-05-10, 03:07 AM

I believe it has a bright future and I want to lend my hand in whatever capacity I can to help make it so.

.

I agree :rock:, I LOVE the :yeah: Silent Hunter 5 :DL Simulator and I think SH5 has a BRIGHT Future :rock:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5747/artklbbbbbbb.png (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/artklbbbbbbb.png/)
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7633/vvvvvvvvvttttkkkkkk.png

.

Sailor Steve

06-05-10, 08:20 AM

I agree :rock:, I LOVE the :yeah: Silent Hunter 5 :DL Simulator and I think SH5 has a BRIGHT Future :rock:.
But you are also one of the ones who claims it's perfect and wonderful as it is now. I don't hear you saying much about any problems you might be having.

tonschk

06-05-10, 08:49 AM

But you are also one of the ones who claims it's perfect and wonderful as it is now. I don't hear you saying much about any problems you might be having.

Just a example , I think the new three rectangular dials at the bottom left of the SH5 interface ( to steer up/down or left/right the sub ) have a smarter look in comparison with the SH3 old fashion three circular dials at the bottom right of the SH3 interface , in my opinion the three old fashion SH3 dials at the bottom right of the SH3 interface have already a silly toy look , and I find incredible that some people are actually importing those silly SH3 old fashion circular dials to steer the SH5 sub ,

.

Sailor Steve

06-05-10, 01:41 PM

And that's one of those little things that people get to disagree on. The ones who like the SH3 dials like the fact that they look like the real dials on the u-boats, whereas the new ones look like modern readouts. Which is fine because thanks to modders everyone can play with the ones they want.

My point was that I've never heard you and a couple of others say anything bad about the game at all. It's like the problems everyone else is having don't exist for you. I agree with you that I too get tired of the people who just say "It stinks!". But I also get tired of the people who never say anything but "It rules!" The DRM thing is too much for me, but as soon as I can I will buy it, and I will at least look at it and do my bit to mod it, if not actually play it full-time.

I have a constant running theme on the SH4 forums about how SH4 is basically much better than SH3, but SH3 has gotten all the good mod work and SH4 is left unloved by the people who put in ships and harbors and blimps.

I said I believe SH5 has a bright future. That doesn't mean I think it's worth two cents at the moment. Beautiful graphics and cool screenshots don't mean anything to someone who still plays Aces Of The Deep after all these years. SH5 is gorgeous to look at, which is what gamers live for, but to someone who plays the game for the history it is severely lacking as it is right now. I believe it will get better with time, and I hope that someday it will have everything SH3 has to offer and more. But at this moment it lacks pretty much everything. It's a very pretty game, so post all the screenshots you want. They won't make it into a WW2 submarine simulator. Only proper patching, and modding, and time will do that. Until then it may be a great game, but it's not a good sim. Not even close.

robbo180265

06-05-10, 01:44 PM

And that's one of those little things that people get to disagree on. The ones who like the SH3 dials like the fact that they look like the real dials on the u-boats, whereas the new ones look like modern readouts. Which is fine because thanks to modders everyone can play with the ones they want.

My point was that I've never heard you and a couple of others say anything bad about the game at all. It's like the problems everyone else is having don't exist for you. I agree with you that I too get tired of the people who just say "It stinks!". But I also get tired of the people who never say anything but "It rules!" The DRM thing is too much for me, but as soon as I can I will buy it, and I will at least look at it and do my bit to mod it, if not actually play it full-time.

I have a constant running theme on the SH4 forums about how SH4 is basically much better than SH3, but SH3 has gotten all the good mod work and SH4 is left unloved by the people who put in ships and harbors and blimps.

I said I believe SH5 has a bright future. That doesn't mean I think it's worth two cents at the moment. Beautiful graphics and cool screenshots don't mean anything to someone who still plays Aces Of The Deep after all these years. SH5 is gorgeous to look at, which is what gamers live for, but to someone who plays the game for the history it is severely lacking as it is right now. I believe it will get better with time, and I hope that someday it will have everything SH3 has to offer and more. But at this moment it lacks pretty much everything. It's a very pretty game, so post all the screenshots you want. They won't make into a WW2 submarine simulator. Only proper patching, and modding, and time will do that. Until then it may be a great game, but it's not a good sim. Not even close.

I wholeheartedly agree with Steve here - especially the last paragraph.:up:

IanC

06-05-10, 03:37 PM

A well thought out post with valid points, Steve. I admire your patience for actually trying to get through to some posters.
I say he'll answer you with some more screenshots :rock: :yeah: :woot:

Méo

06-05-10, 07:15 PM

I admire your patience for actually trying to get through to some posters.

Yeah, and you should admire the patience of all those who come to this forum because they are actually interested in SH5 and have to get through 'some posters' (who obviously aren't interested at all with SH5).:hmmm:

This is the ''SH5'' forum after all, not the ''I endlessly need to vent my frustration'' forum.

----

Edit:

I don't include Steve in those 'same posters', I know his comments are always fair.

Moeceefus

06-05-10, 07:33 PM

Yeah, and you should admire the patience of all those who come to this forum because they are actually interested in SH5 and have to get through 'some posters' (who obviously aren't interested at all with SH5).:hmmm:

This is the ''SH5'' forum after all, not the ''I endlessly need to vent my frustration'' forum.

----

indeed sir

randybandit

06-14-10, 05:18 PM

i find it easier using the 3 dials on the right my eyes aint so good nowadays and when i find a link to download em for sh5 i will :salute:

Sailor Steve

06-14-10, 11:40 PM

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

My eyes aren't so good either, and I don't like clutter on my screen, which is why I use this mod in SH3 and wish he'd done it for SH4, and hope someone does it for SH5:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1401974&postcount=5

krashkart

06-15-10, 01:03 AM

I don't mean to derail the thread, but since we're on the subject of eyesight capabilities I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of better night visibility using GWX. I've asked twice in SH3 mods thread (once in lieu of a related post by another member) and noone has replied yet. Is there a way to improve nighttime visibility through the optics? My eyes really aren't up to spec these days. Please, please someone respond yes or no. I've found no answers in the place I had originally asked the question.

*waits for the thread to die, which should be right about now*

*post*

*thread dies*

$%&# :nope:

robbo180265

06-15-10, 01:25 AM

Sailor Steve

06-15-10, 01:57 AM

I know this is no help, but I can see fine at night, using my ancient-of-days 19" CRT monitor. It may weight 16 tons, but it gives good night vision with subsims. :D

Noren

06-15-10, 06:09 AM

It's a very pretty game, so post all the screenshots you want. They won't make it into a WW2 submarine simulator. Only proper patching, and modding, and time will do that. Until then it may be a great game, but it's not a good sim. Not even close.

I agree on all your points, although I dont think the game was supposed to be a hardcore sub simulator - not anymore. Perhaps it wanted to be, but fell short on most key solid simulation areas, but not in the graphics department. Eyecandy is nice, but, using a woman as an analogy - it takes more than that for a long loving relationship. Arcade players deep wallets changed all that...and they're not buying anyway!?!

ST.Rage

06-15-10, 12:18 PM

I am still waiting to buy it. I want to badly but I can't support the DRM. In the past I always purchased immediately as I want to support the franchise. This time the draconian DRM was too much for me. I am waiting til the bugs and drm are removed. By then the modders will hopefully fix what ubi can't/won't.

SH is my favorite franchise and it's a shame that it is coming to this.

Engel der Vernichtung

06-18-10, 03:18 PM

I only see that this poll is just for those who are complaining all the time!:06:
There are not fair choices.
And I think that all those who are complaining will win (this unfair game) in one of next 2 ways:
1. Telling someone as often as you can "...oh, you look sick...!" , that someone will really get sick. There are people on this forum, I am pretty sure, who like or liked this game, but the others, which are looking to SH5 only through the filter of DRM, are more many, or more interested to obtain a "no internet connection" than to enjoy the game as it is. They can be very convincing.:timeout: ... The result: NO support on SH5, NO SH6, and so on ....

2. Ubisoft, or devteam will say: "That's enough! What for do I work?"
It's not just about the money! This people can find many ways to get money. I'm sure they are really good. It's about the feeling of a useful work, it's about all that "lost" time when "SH5 was me and I was SH5!:damn: :haha: :wah: :hmmm:"
... The result: NO support on SH5, NO SH6, and so on ....

Now, if somebody feels wounded, I am really sorry! It's just my opinion.
If it was one person saying all this, or even just a few, then that analogy would be fair, but it's quite a lot of people saying this, and their concern is a legitmate one, as we'd like an acknowledgment that the DRM choice they've made is overly restrictive. For their part, I'd recommend seeing what happens to the sales when they remove it. Sure, there will be some piracy going on, but you really can't track that, so we'd just go off of sales. Which is the biggest thing that companies are interested in, after all. It's what pays their bottom line, pays their employees, and pays for future development of games.

And yes, there are only options for people who don't like SH5. That *was* the whole point of the poll: "why are people not satisfied?", to put paid and get a coherent sample that answers that question.

For my part, I seriously don't think UBI will actually do any of that. They'll get a few more sales, declare the submarine sim market petered out, and just do other things. But, I have to voice my opinion, and that's what a forum is for, whether that opinion be positive or negative, it's not just for one or the other.

Cheers.

Engel der Vernichtung

EDIT: For what it's worth, I will be first in line to buy it once they remove the DRM. But until then, the only thing i can do is decline to buy the game, which is not a very clear way of communicating my reasons. For example, all the following could be reasons I am not buying the game:

Converted to Islam and am in Afghanistan being trained.
No longer own a computer.
Got out of computer gaming in general.
Feel totally sated with having bought SH3 and SH4, and just don't feel like upgrading.

And all Ubi knows from my not buying the game, is that I'm not buying the game. It's important to me that UBI knows my reasoning, because it's one they could address, if they want to.

Karasunx

06-19-10, 02:26 AM

My point was that I've never heard you and a couple of others say anything bad about the game at all. It's like the problems everyone else is having don't exist for you. I agree with you that I too get tired of the people who just say "It stinks!". But I also get tired of the people who never say anything but "It rules!" The DRM thing is too much for me, but as soon as I can I will buy it, and I will at least look at it and do my bit to mod it, if not actually play it full-time...

...Until then it may be a great game, but it's not a good sim. Not even close.

Those are really good points, which makes me think that the defining line may be that of Sim players vs Casual players. When it comes to Silent Hunter I've always been more casual and as such I'm way more forgiving of 5's flaws. I can see how as a simulator SH5 falls short, but that's what the developers were going for. I remember in their video diary they said they wanted to make it more accessible to a broader audience. How you try and do that with such a niche as sub sims I don't know, but I think they alienated a lot of the more hardcore fan base in the process. This is where the people who are upset with the game should offer their constructive criticism to clue Ubi into what their consumer base wants. In that regard SH5 is a failed venture, at least at launch. That doesn't mean it won't get better or that subsequent games are only going to be about eye candy. The people who don't like what they got should let Ubi know, but not with a bunch of rants and boycotts. If you want something to change you have to do something constructive. I bet Ubisoft can be influenced to provide a more adequate simulation, and for us casuals we can tone down the realism settings.

GerritJ9

06-19-10, 10:22 AM

I would have bought SH5 but did not, for several reasons. Fisrt, the SE Asia-Pacific scene is of far more interest to me (though I did buy SH3) and I hoped for more expansions for SH4- IJN, RN and RNethN to cover all navies that operated subs in that theatre. But it was the Atlantic again. Next, only one sub and only until 1943. HUH? Did the war end in 1943??? Even then, I probably would have bought SH5 if only to support the genre. But UBI slapping on their excessively restrictive DRM was the sale killer- I don't particularly like the DRM on SES Distant Guns and Jutland, even though it is by no means as restrictive as UBI's. Plus, I have not forgotten the IL2 Sturmovik 4.05m/Boonty Box fiasco- excellent way to treat and alienate customers! So, UBI, kiss one sale goodbye.
Although I did not buy SH5, I have played it briefly on a mate's computer so I have taken a look at it. Yes, the graphics leave SH3 for dead; they are also better than SH4's, but not by much in my opinion. The manual is a disgrace for such a complex sim- I'd almost say "WHAT manual?" The manuals that came with SH3 and SH4 were streets ahead of this one. And even after patch 1.2, it still has bugs- ships colliding for no apparent reason, for example.
And yes, the mods have taken care of quite a few bugs etc. But that should be UBI's job, not theirs. Patch 1.2 came with much less than was announced at first, and after a considerable delay (though the Russians did get it earlier). Will a patch 1.3 be released? UBI won't say- their silence is deafening.
Then there are such silly and avoidable errors such as "Emden"'s armament- half of her eight 15cm guns are missing, as are her torpedo tube mounts. A minor point, and no doubt mods can (fairly) easily correct this- but again, the devs could and should have spotted and corrected this during their testing.
SH3 and SH4 had their share of bugs, and SH5 has continued the tradition of being released without sufficient proper testing. UBI never learns, it seems. Apparently the pirates don't even bother with SH5 any more- surely a sign that the sim is not worth persevering with. All in all, I'm glad I gave SH5 a miss; I'll stick with SH3 and SH4. Perhaps in three years or so, if/when DRM has been removed, the price has dropped and UBI have patched out all the bugs it will be worth buying- but I'm not holding my breath.

Sailor Steve

06-19-10, 11:01 AM

@ Karasunx: Finally, someone I can disagree reasonably with. Thank you for your insight and explanations. Great post. :rock:

Karasunx

06-19-10, 12:27 PM

Thanks Sailor Steve :) I think its funny how in my first post I apologized for thinking I was ranting and now in every subsequent post it is becoming more and more of a rant. The forums...they corrupt me :doh::haha:

Sailor Steve

06-19-10, 01:12 PM

The forums...they corrupt me :doh::haha:
We try to help any way we can. That's what we're here for. :D

mjrhealth

06-19-10, 09:46 PM

Wlell I gues its my turn, being waiting for SH5 for a while, was going to buy it earlier but other things put it off, them after reading these forums got even less enthusiaitc about . it, till i walked past EB games 50% off, got it there and then, Well i gueess online play can only be considered worse then a CD in the cd player, and as far as online saves, people have being thrown in jail for holding peoples data to ransom, so i guess we all already know where UBI stand. Mind you that would be the bean counter way of thinking. Get rid of online play , allow us to keep our saved games, and maybe one more patch then i am sure we wil all enthusiastically push the game to our friends. and more sales, more revenue to UBI. Pity bean counters cant count.

Seminole

06-23-10, 06:12 PM

I don't see the point in bashing UBISoft. If they had not developed the SH series were would we be today? :o As I see it they got a lot of things wrong...but they also got a whole lot more right.

Even hardcore Anti-UBIs should admit that they have listened to us and what it was we all wanted...at least after the SHII disaster they began to hear us.. Sure they don't always understand completely what we tell them but they have tried.

I understand that not everone on planet earth is a hardcore Sub sim fan so the game developers,working without our depth of knowledge, interpret what we tell them as best they can.

So the results are a mixed blessing. But what if there were no subsims at all to play? :shifty:

Madox58

06-23-10, 06:29 PM

Here's the Customer Feedback Department at UbiSoft.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/SH5%20Stuff/trash-can.jpg

:nope:

Sailor Steve

06-23-10, 06:50 PM

Even hardcore Anti-UBIs should admit that they have listened to us and what it was we all wanted...at least after the SHII disaster they began to hear us.. Sure they don't always understand completely what we tell them but they have tried.
I only quoted this paragraph, but your whole post is excellent. I'm not a hardcore anything (except perhaps history buff). There are still things I complain about with SH3 and SH4, and SH5 sounds like more of the same, but that doesn't make me anti-UBI. Currently I'm anti-DRM, but I still will get the game at some point, and will try to enjoy it.

The constant bashing and the constant cheerleeding are both equally annoying, and both equally useless.

They will get more respect if they at least make an effort to fix the real problems. The things that are merely annoying or dissatisfying can be fixed by modders. What we need from UBI at the moment is some kind of sign one way or the other, so we know which way to jump.

Madox58

06-23-10, 07:44 PM

What we need from UBI at the moment is some kind of sign one way or the other, so we know which way to jump.

Here's your sign.

http://deelol.homestead.com/files/signWarning.jpg

nikimcbee

06-23-10, 07:50 PM

well, look at the bright side, we'll have something to talk about at the subsim shindig.:D

nikimcbee

06-23-10, 07:53 PM

I don't like the on-line thigny, but I haven't purchased it because: no room on hard drive, I'm happy with my current sh (3/4) games, I barely play games anymore.:-?

Madox58

06-23-10, 08:01 PM

well, look at the bright side, we'll have something to talk about at the subsim shindig.:D

I always try to look at the bright side of life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo).
But UbiSoft always taunts us (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl8H-rm6kt4)!

:har:

nikimcbee

06-23-10, 08:03 PM

I always try to look at the bright side of life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo).
But UbiSoft always taunts us (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qxqvjTbu0&feature=related)!

:har:

Cheer up Pwivateer:haha:

Well played sir:salute:

Badger Finn

06-25-10, 05:30 PM

I said I believe SH5 has a bright future. That doesn't mean I think it's worth two cents at the moment. Beautiful graphics and cool screenshots don't mean anything to someone who still plays Aces Of The Deep after all these years. SH5 is gorgeous to look at, which is what gamers live for, but to someone who plays the game for the history it is severely lacking as it is right now. I believe it will get better with time, and I hope that someday it will have everything SH3 has to offer and more. But at this moment it lacks pretty much everything. It's a very pretty game, so post all the screenshots you want. They won't make it into a WW2 submarine simulator. Only proper patching, and modding, and time will do that. Until then it may be a great game, but it's not a good sim. Not even close.

Indeed AOD a sim thats 20 years past out of the box worked with no internet no mods no support yet captured in its simple way the feeling of the Battle of Atlantic.

All AOD needed was a graphics tune up! SH3-GWX and other super mods with more mods has 90% captured that AOD sim feeling - perhaps SH5 may one day...

For now DRM and UBI can take a trip to the bottom!

Im going to donate to subsim instead of UBI. This forum and site and the people involved have been awesome!!!

Sailor Steve

06-25-10, 05:48 PM

All AOD needed was a graphics tune up!
Back when we were waiting for SH3 someone said he would be happy with AOD and SH2's graphics. I agreed at the time, but now I've become a little spoiled by the pretties.

SH3-GWX and other super mods with more mods has 90% captured that AOD sim feeling - perhaps SH5 may one day...
I completely agree. Ninety percent sounds about right. I would rate SH4 as currently about 80%, and alot better if it could only get the same mods. SH5? Hopefully we'll see someday.

Badger Finn

06-25-10, 06:59 PM

Back when we were waiting for SH3 someone said he would be happy with AOD and SH2's graphics. I agreed at the time, but now I've become a little spoiled by the pretties.

I completely agree. Ninety percent sounds about right. I would rate SH4 as currently about 80%, and alot better if it could only get the same mods. SH5? Hopefully we'll see someday.

Absolutly!

Good chance that was me even though I dont post much we've had few brief yarns about AOD over the years!

Off topic - but thanks for the subsim site! Happy hunting and modding! Im back off to SH3 for the meantime...