Stadimeter bugged

[Klub Bilderberg]

I guess im not the only one who was confused about strange values returned from stadimeter. I wanted to try out changing the mast height parameters for each ship same way it was made by modders for sh4. But it turned in no results.

Out of curiosity ive false identified a known ship during a test mission. To my surprise the stadimeter values didnt change. So i came to the conclusion that it doesnt matter whether you identify the target right or wrong. The game engine seems to ignore the individual mast heights for each ship, it just takes some default value which might be more or less acurate. So there is definetely a bug with the stadimeter.

discuss.

[kylania]

Welcome aboard! :salute:

You're entirely correct in your observations of remaining bugs with the 1.2 patch. That said, TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC 2.5.0 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) fixes the standimeter. Enjoy!

[Klub Bilderberg]

Welcome aboard! :salute:
That said, TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC 2.5.0 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) fixes the standimeter. Enjoy!

can someone confirm that stadimeter works accurate with that addon?

[Blood_splat]

Dude this is subsim!:rock:

[kylania]

can someone confirm that stadimeter works accurate with that addon?

Erm, I just did... :o

[Shiplord]

The use of the Statimeter in the game is nonsense because measurement of the height from sea surface to the top of the mast never provide accurate results, because an empty tanker for example has a shallower draft than a full tanker and thus also the height to the top of the mast is differently with the same type of vessels.

During my time in the navy we measured the mast height from his root to the top and not from sea level because only this value is static.

[severniae]

The use of the Statimeter in the game is nonsense because measurement of the height from sea surface to the top of the mast never provide accurate results, because an empty tanker for example has a shallower draft than a full tanker and thus also the height to the top of the mast is differently with the same type of vessels.

During my time in the navy we measured the mast height from his root to the top and not from sea level because only this value is static.

Good point, I'd never actually thought of that!

How would the real U-boot captains cope with this problem, I wonder.

[Klub Bilderberg]

Good point, I'd never actually thought of that!

How would the real U-boot captains cope with this problem, I wonder.

The use of the Statimeter in the game is nonsense because measurement of the height from sea surface to the top of the mast never provide accurate results, because an empty tanker for example has a shallower draft than a full tanker and thus also the height to the top of the mast is differently with the same type of vessels.

During my time in the navy we measured the mast height from his root to the top and not from sea level because only this value is static.


yes its true. The mast height is taken from root to top. Ive been saying this during sh3 times already. But on the other hand its easier to messure from sea level and there is always same draft regardless of payload for each ship anyway. If you want realism someone make a stadimeter mod that works from root to top.

[Sonarman]

@Shiplord

Great post:up:, that never occured to me but the reasoning is obvious, perhaps theDarkWraith could make this change in his multiple UI mod the ship config files?

[kylania]

@Shiplord

Great post:up:, that never occured to me but the reasoning is obvious, perhaps theDarkWraith could make this change in his multiple UI mod the ship config files?

Because that would be a drastic change that would satisfy a small handful of people and would probably be incompatible with other ship packs and completely at odds with stock features?

[Navarre]

...and would probably be incompatible with other ship packs and completely at odds with stock features?
That's the problem with the stadimeter in the Silent Hunter series, it's broken by design since SHIII :smug:

[kylania]

That's the problem with the stadimeter in the Silent Hunter series, it's broken by design since SHIII :smug:

Apparently the SH4 Fleet Boat one worked via dual images instead of line to mast and therefore didn't have to lined up with the waterline or whatever. Never played it that much to remember though. heh

[Klub Bilderberg]

Apparently the SH4 Fleet Boat one worked via dual images instead of line to mast and therefore didn't have to lined up with the waterline or whatever. Never played it that much to remember though. heh

you dont have to line up the water line in sh5 either. Its working pretty much the same as in sh4.

[kylania]

you dont have to line up the water line in sh5 either. Its working pretty much the same as in sh4.

Whoa.. you're right. :o Makes things even easier now! heh:rock: Could have sworn it was the other way around.

[Itkovian]

Wait, you don't have to line up to the waterline first?

What I've been doing now is line up the horizontal black line in the peri to the target's waterline, activated the stadi, and then raised the black line of the second picture that appears to the top of the mast of the original (non-moving) image.

Are you saying that's not necessary? How does one do it otherwise?

Itkovian

[kylania]

Nope, I did a few tests last night and with the crosshair line above or below the ship itself, as long as you lined up the images (waterline of the ship with top of the mast) you got the same value.

It's easier to see if you line up with the waterline since then you have the horizontal line to measure by, and anti-aliasing is VITAL. With AA turned off, measuring a target that was 1100m away, I'd get a variation of up to 300m depending on how much of the masts the non AA graphics happened to display at that moment.

[jdkbph]

The use of the Statimeter in the game is nonsense because measurement of the height from sea surface to the top of the mast never provide accurate results, because an empty tanker for example has a shallower draft than a full tanker and thus also the height to the top of the mast is differently with the same type of vessels.

During my time in the navy we measured the mast height from his root to the top and not from sea level because only this value is static.

Actually the use of the stadimeter in the game (SH3/4/5) is right on... for that time period. Unless the Germans did it differently than everyone else (I'll be happy to stand corrected if they did), mast head height was always taken from the waterline.

See section 4J of the Periscope manual (http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/pscope/index.htm) on line at maritime.org.

JD

[Navarre]

As far as I know, there were no stadimeter on the German subs. The distance were simply estimated because it plays no role in the method the Germans used. They use for the solution, a collection of firing tables and these tables are based on the mathematical formulas of the Thales' theorem also called intercept theorem. No matter how far a target is away, if it is still within the range of a torpedo, the distance is not important. The correction angle is always the same no matter how far away the target is, if the speed and heading of the target don't change.

[jdkbph]

As far as I know, there were no stadimeter on the German subs. The distance were simply estimated because it plays no role in the method the Germans used. They use for the solution, a collection of firing tables and these tables are based on the mathematical formulas of the Thales' theorem also called intercept theorem. No matter how far a target is away, if it is still within the range of a torpedo, the distance is not important. The correction angle is always the same no matter how far away the target is, if the speed and heading of the target don't change.

The link HERE (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:fE3WA-XBG0MJ:forum.sukhoi.ru/attachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D99582%26d%3D125579 8351+german+stadimeter&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjzGIRpJQkOKVYGKw1gkcgI8V26nl1-3y6UeOKpArbiU7FvOtGQCkhPwHte5PHtf8IBF7MxgAgWveW-tqQVqlJ0pYTSE_qiYyZu_8XUzUvcW6TYnQmzNjQqMRHWsbyUFg liIPKk&sig=AHIEtbTEztsuxXqYYT-HuoGDrf9qOhpz3g) seems to suggest this is correct. At least for other than early war boats. Apparently the early war boats had stadimeters in the attack scope, but the later binocular optics did not allow the installation of a stadimeter.

BTW, the full link is broken at the moment, which is why I linked to the "quick view".

JD

[Seeadler]

They use for the solution, a collection of firing tables and these tables are based on the mathematical formulas of the Thales' theorem

2008 this table based on Thales' theorem was posted on the Ubisoft forum
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4182/vorhaltewinkelsz5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vorhaltewinkelsz5.jpg)
I used it in SHIII and it worked nearly perfect:yeah:

[Nausicaa]

Welcome aboard! :salute:

You're entirely correct in your observations of remaining bugs with the 1.2 patch. That said, TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC 2.5.0 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093) fixes the standimeter. Enjoy!

Hello there,

I am afraid it doesn't. I run the UI 2.5, and the stadimeter is definitely broken.
Ran extensive testing yesterday - the stadi turns out wrong distances all the time. This is really a game breaker for those who want to use manual targetting. (and yes I know how to use the stadimeter) :03:

[Nausicaa]

2008 this table based on Thales' theorem was posted on the Ubisoft forum
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4182/vorhaltewinkelsz5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vorhaltewinkelsz5.jpg)
I used it in SHIII and it worked nearly perfect:yeah:

Wow, very interesting! Could you explain a little more how this works ? Thanks a lot !

[TomcatMVD]

OMG! I just installed SH5 and decided to return to good'ol subsim to catch up on the latest... but I can't believe they still manage to release a game with such an essential part broken! Who knows, maybe we'll see a bug in SH6 preventing you from opening the torpedo tubes!

Anyway, I hate it that this is my first "comeback" post, but just couldn't believe it. Don't get me wrong, I love these SH games and I think they've done a ton of things in great ways... but seriously... c'mon dudes!

[kylania]

Hello there,

I am afraid it doesn't. I run the UI 2.5, and the stadimeter is definitely broken.
Ran extensive testing yesterday - the stadi turns out wrong distances all the time. This is really a game breaker for those who want to use manual targetting. (and yes I know how to use the stadimeter) :03:

You should report that in TDW's mod post, because you're the exception. Standimeter is working perfectly as of 2.5 for most users and most ships. Please report to TDW what wasn't working so he can see if it's a language issue or what.

[Klub Bilderberg]

You should report that in TDW's mod post, because you're the exception. Standimeter is working perfectly as of 2.5 for most users and most ships. Please report to TDW what wasn't working so he can see if it's a language issue or what.

it works better but its not perfect. Sometimes it reads wrong mast hights. Not sure under which circumstances.

[Klub Bilderberg]

2008 this table based on Thales' theorem was posted on the Ubisoft forum
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4182/vorhaltewinkelsz5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vorhaltewinkelsz5.jpg)
I used it in SHIII and it worked nearly perfect:yeah:

this is nothing more but a lead angle chart. You still need speed and angle on bow to use that. You dont need range for lead angle calculation but you still need it to find the speed and course of target. You cant estimate everything.

[jwilliams]

Hello there,

I am afraid it doesn't. I run the UI 2.5, and the stadimeter is definitely broken.
Ran extensive testing yesterday - the stadi turns out wrong distances all the time. This is really a game breaker for those who want to use manual targetting. (and yes I know how to use the stadimeter) :03:


Works fine for me. :yep:

[scratch81]

Managed to hit a 17 knot Royal Sovereign Battleship with 3 eels at approx. 2km with the stock stadimeter last night, though didn't stay up long enough to see if they hit where i was aiming or not, DD snuck up on me as i fired the spread. heard 3 impacts and less than a minute later heard the ship breaking apart. So i can conclude 1 of two things, i've actually gotten used to the stupid thing or my aim under perfect conditions is really that bad :D

[kylania]

I had my first official kill at 100% realism (my previous map contact off kills I may have used the external camera to judge course/position hehe)

I'd originally plotted an intercept based on a radio contact. Once I was within 30km of the intercept point I checked for hydrophone sounds. The bearing I heard the target on was perfect for the distance I'd estimated him to travel during approach.

My watch crew spotted him at 11km out (no clouds, dusk) and the estimated range from my WO was right on the plotted line.

At reported range of 7700m I tried to measure it with the standimeter (Cimmaron tanker) and was getting results like 9000-11000m! Once I was closer to firing position I took another measure and it was 2200m but my plotted course said it should have been 1000m. Way confusing.

But one of two eels hit, so it was all good. Took just a single deck gun shot to finish her!

[robbo180265]

I had my first official kill at 100% realism (my previous map contact off kills I may have used the external camera to judge course/position hehe)

I'd originally plotted an intercept based on a radio contact. Once I was within 30km of the intercept point I checked for hydrophone sounds. The bearing I heard the target on was perfect for the distance I'd estimated him to travel during approach.

My watch crew spotted him at 11km out (no clouds, dusk) and the estimated range from my WO was right on the plotted line.

At reported range of 7700m I tried to measure it with the standimeter (Cimmaron tanker) and was getting results like 9000-11000m! Once I was closer to firing position I took another measure and it was 2200m but my plotted course said it should have been 1000m. Way confusing.

But one of two eels hit, so it was all good. Took just a single deck gun shot to finish her!

Congratulations matey:rock:

[TwistedFemur]

I guess im not the only one who was confused about strange values returned from stadimeter. I wanted to try out changing the mast height parameters for each ship same way it was made by modders for sh4. But it turned in no results.

Out of curiosity ive false identified a known ship during a test mission. To my surprise the stadimeter values didnt change. So i came to the conclusion that it doesnt matter whether you identify the target right or wrong. The game engine seems to ignore the individual mast heights for each ship, it just takes some default value which might be more or less acurate. So there is definetely a bug with the stadimeter.

discuss.

It's been bugged since SHIII