Omnimeter

[Gino]

By popular demand...

Now you only have to figure out how the thing works...

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2120/telemeteromnimeterovera.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/telemeteromnimeterovera.jpg/)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3442/rangefor40ftmastheadhei.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/rangefor40ftmastheadhei.jpg/)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8190/dsc00170b.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/dsc00170b.jpg/)

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/572/dsc00167z.th.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/dsc00167z.jpg/)

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/258/dsc00166ki.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/i/dsc00166ki.jpg/)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/464/dsc00150lz.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/dsc00150lz.jpg/)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1331/dsc00149pc.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/dsc00149pc.jpg/)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3016/dsc00148fy.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/dsc00148fy.jpg/)

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8682/dsc00147rg.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/dsc00147rg.jpg/)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2120/telemeteromnimeterovera.th.jpg (http://img243.imageshack.us/i/telemeteromnimeterovera.jpg/)

Have fun...

[arnahud2]

Hi, what a nice steel tool, impressive :up:

[Buddahaid]

I think I read how a shot was screwed up by reading off the wrong periscope power scale, and here is the very scale to ponder. Thanks for the pictures.

[Mav87th]

Most cool Gino.

I'd say it works like the stadimeter. Pick masthead height, count the number of divisions (in either x1,5 or x6 scope) and slide - then read off the distance on the right side of the scale - Simple and fast.

is there ANY possibility that you can put that thing into a high-res (or even low-res) scanner and provide the scanned image to us?

[Gino]

Something more about 'the tool'. It's quite heavy, but the sliders go really smooth. Mind that this is a handmade tool. The quality of the craftsmanship is beyond anything you can get nowadays.
How do I know that it's handmade, check out one of the pictures. The craftsman made a mistake... instead of 10,000 he first made 9...
It's also made for the boat that's named on it. Every boat built by Electric boat Co received (amongst other things) one of these.
E-boat Co also gave the submarine a number of playing cards. These were especially made for submarines. The red Hearts and Diamonds were printed in a different way. We are currently searching for the design of the back of these cards, so we can reproduce them.

Anybody here that can help us?

groetjes,

[Gino]

Most cool Gino.

I'd say it works like the stadimeter. Pick masthead height, count the number of divisions (in either x1,5 or x6 scope) and slide - then read off the distance on the right side of the scale - Simple and fast.

is there ANY possibility that you can put that thing into a high-res (or even low-res) scanner and provide the scanned image to us?

I'm working on that. The president of the USS Cod Submarine Memorial is recovering from surgery. He has the Omnimeter at home. I will contact him this weekend to see how he's doing, and I'll tell him about your request. Please have patience, the answer may take a little time...

Groetjes,

[tomoose]

Gino;
thanks for that.
regards,
Tomoose

[tomoose]

I've managed to create a virtual omnimeter in HTML format. You can slide the appropriate parts just like the real thing etc.

The only problem is that I used the images as currently provided by Gino which are off-angle and difficult to line up despite my trying with my graphics program. I've asked Gino for a straight-on shot or a scanned image which will resolve the issue. The only other option is to manually input all the line graduations which I don't have time for at the moment (too lazy, LOL).:yawn:

If Gino can get the images then I'll finish it up and post for DL within the next week or so (that will include testing during the game to see if it actually works).:salute:

[virtualpender]

Very cool gadget.

Gino - not to hijack your thread, but can I request your expert opinion on this?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1392267&postcount=427

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1393006&postcount=429

[Gino]

Very cool gadget.

Gino - not to hijack your thread, but can I request your expert opinion on this?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1392267&postcount=427

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1393006&postcount=429

The red needles on the diving gauges... It's correct to assume that they were used for steering correct depth, since they are on the gauges for shallow depth and that they are on both the gauges for both planes-men.
I think that the needles (they are 'adjustable') were set however the commander of the boat, or the diving officer wanted them. So, one for the attack periscope, and one for the observation scope. With the introduction of radar, that may have been used also. On the Guppies they may have been set to the snorkel depth, etc.
That you see different readings on various boats has a simple reason; people have adjusted them for whatever reason. The painted ones could have been made because the needles were missing, or the gauges had not been equipped with the needles. If you look at "The Fleet Type Submarine" you will find a drawing of the dive control station with gauges that do not have red needles. This could mean that this was a modification that was introduced during the war, or just after.
What they are currently set to is up to the discretion of the shipkeeper...

Groetjes,

[Admiral8Q]

By popular demand...

Now you only have to figure out how the thing works...

Have fun...
Really cool device!:cool: I wonder if it could be added to the game as a "dial" on the overlay such as the stopwatch?:hmmm:

[Gino]

Really cool device!:cool: I wonder if it could be added to the game as a "dial" on the overlay such as the stopwatch?:hmmm:
Now...what a great idea... I think you'll notice that some people are already working on something.

As for the device: I only know of it's existence, I held it in my hands once, and I have an idea of how it works ( I also know the source to go to if I don't...)

Groetjes,

[Gino]

OK,

so I have some more pictures. Although htey're not what you wanted, but I have some good news.

Somewhere this week I should receive scans/photos made from the front.
For this the Omnimeter that we have has to be disassembled.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2125/dsc00157px.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/dsc00157px.jpg/)

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2585/dsc00145c.th.jpg (http://img541.imageshack.us/i/dsc00145c.jpg/)

Groetjes,

[tomoose]

Gino;
appreciate your efforts. Can't you just remove the two 'knobs' and lay the whole thing down in a scanner?
I'm not sure if it will be too reflective given the shiny surface. Good luck with that. I've got my little html application standing by and if the scan works then it should just be a simple cut and paste into the application.
:salute:

[Hitman]

Hello,

how the omnimeter works is very easily, and can be used as substitute for a broken split prism stadimeter by using the marks in the scopes (At 6x zoom 1 big mark= 1 degree). You simply drag the sliding part and place estimated mast heigth opposite the measured numbers of marks in the scope at high or low power (thus the double scale) and read in the distance scale the resulting distance to target opposite the same mark but in the range scale. The Sine scale on the right allows doing the same with hull length instead of mast heigth, and the sine scale serves for correcting for the shortened hull size when the target is angled.

:up:

[tomoose]

The linked video shows what I've done so far using some html techniques. The actual movement of the 'slides' is very smooth compared to how it looks in the video. It's not much but it's all I can offer back to subsim at the moment. I've had this sitting on desktop and just alt-tab out to use it then alt-tab back into SH4. It works fine. The problem is that the images used have been taken from a distance and at a slight angle which throws off the graduations and lining them up thereby affecting the overall accuracy of the digital tool. If Gino can get a clear scan of the device and provide images then this will be a done deal and I'll make it available for all. Having said that, I'm not sure if the graduations on the actual scope are realistic in that they can be used with the omnimeter. I've used this rough version and what the omnimeter was giving me was close to what I saw in the scope graduations but not perfect.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Tomaz99/videos/?action=view&current=omnimeter.mp4

[tomoose]

I've briefly tested my 'virtual' omnimeter by comparing my TDC data with what the omnimeter shows.
Allowing for the discrepancies caused by the fuzzy graduations on the virtual omnimeter it actually seems to work!
Here's what I tried;
1. Get mast height from ID book then slide this figure on the omnimeter. (pause game, alt-tab to my virtual omnimeter slide rule on desktop etc).
2. Get range to target using TDC and stadimeter.
3. Check scope graduation indicated on omnimeter by the combination of the mast height and range data.
4. Check on periscope (high power) to see if marks on periscope match what omnimeter tells me (i.e. omnimeter indicates 2 1/2 graduations on high power on the scope should match the mast height in my scope picture). It seems to work better if the scope marks are set from the main deck to the mast top as opposed to from the surface of the water to the mast top.

It seems to work albeit not exact. I've only used high power markings so far as low power doesn't give a good clear indication of the masts at distance (at least on my poor rig).
I haven't figured out what the angle on the bow slide is supposed to do as yet.
:salute:

[Nisgeis]

I haven't figured out what the angle on the bow slide is supposed to do as yet.

It should convert the angular length of the target into an AoB, given the correct target length.

[tomoose]

So if I set the mast height on the one slide and it indicates (for the sake of an example) 2 on high power.
Then how is the AOB slide used?
Is the actual AOB lined up with the high power 2 mark? i.e. if the AOB is 70 then I slide the AOB slider to line the 70 up with...? There is a black arrow at the 90 AOB mark which I'm not sure about either.
:salute:

[Nisgeis]

Right, it's a bit of guesswork and a bit of science. Which information do you have and what information do you want?

OK, so assuming you know how to use the omnimeter to get the target range from the mast head height and telemeter scale, then what you need to do is to reverse the process to get the foreshortened length in feet of the target based on the angular length. So if the target was at 2,000 yards and it spanned five horizontal graduations on the telemeter, then set 5 against 2,000 and the indicated mast head height is the foreshortened (due to the AoB) target length.

Now, if you know what the target length is, then you can set the 90 (with the black arrow) against the known target length (using the range in yards scale) and then where the measured target length in feet is (read as against range in yards) then that's the AoB.

Or, if you guesstimate the AoB, or plot it to work out the AoB, you can deduce the real target length by placing the plotted AoB against the foreshortened target length and where the black arrow at 90 is will be the true target length.

Target length can then be used with the Torpedo Spread Angle Calculator to work out what spread angles to use.

[tomoose]

Thanks Nisgeis. That makes sense. I'll have to play with it some more.
I'm still hoping Gino can get a good scan of the tool so I can use better images for my virtual version which, hopefully, will make the graduations much clearer and therefore more accurate. As I mentioned, I use it on the desktop and just 'pause' and alt-tab out use it then alt-tab back to the game. It works fine that way. I'm still in learning mode and using the game to verify what the omnimeter is showing me and vice versa.

Can you confirm whether the mast height in question is from the water surface or from the main deck to the top of the mast. It appears at first blush that the scope telemeter graduations (at least on high power) are more accurate if the height is taken from the main deck. Does that make sense?

[Nisgeis]

Can you confirm whether the mast height in question is from the water surface or from the main deck to the top of the mast.

The mast head height is the height above the waterline, but it's really not important which bit you measure, as long as you have an accurate measurement for it in feet. You can measure the waterline to the top of the bridge structure if you want, if you know how high it is. The taller the thing you are measuring though, the less error there will be in the measurement, except of course if you can't see the top of the thing you are measuring.

[Gino]

I just got this reply from the 'keeper' of Cod's Omnimeter:

I've had this thing disassembled for more than a week and have been trying to get suitable images for use in a simulator or general image. The problem is that almost all of the background is either white or aluminum (also white) with the only contrasting component being the tiny black characters and grid lines. My copy app has great difficulty handling this dynamic range, so the result is very poor. Even at 600 dpi much of the grid and much of many character drop outs.

I just got the idea of killing off the white scanner background with flat black construction paper and managed to find a source of the paper today. I will be trying it ASAP.

It would be appreciated If any of our SUBSIM scanner "experts" can share some ideas. I'll keep at it.

Any tips, hints or ideas to tackle this problem?

[Nisgeis]

Try tilting it at an angle, so that some of the light gets reflected away, rather than toward the scanning head. Try a few angles to see what you get. Any distortion created should then be removable with the perspective tool in photoshop or similar and you'll get a nice square image back. In theory anyway.

[tomoose]

Sorry for the late reply, I just moved house and just got phone hooked back up.

How about a flat, non-reflective tracing paper over the surface of the omnimeter to cut down the reflectivity? or matt-finish scotch tape?

OR disregard the scanner and try a digital photo from directly above with a high res setting on the camera and a white non-reflective backround if possible.

Just a couple of ideas of the top of my head.

regards,
Tomoose

[tomoose]

@ Gino;
any progress regarding getting a decent image of the omnimeter?

regards,
tomoose

[Gino]

Unfortunately not. The president of the USS Cod Submarine Memorial is still recovering from surgery. He is also undergoing chemo therapy. So, I will send him another request with the status of the project.

But at this stage things don't appear to be looking well for the photos.

Groetjes,

[tomoose]

Gino;
roger that. Let's not bother him on this then, he's obviously dealing with a lot of much more important RL issues. The omnimeter stuff can certainly wait.

I've tried searching online and surprisingly this site (subsim) is the only place where there's any real mention of the omnimeter (I'm including the links to the historical naval site). You'd think there'd be more out there somewhere but nothing. :cry:

[tomoose]

Given the situation as outlined in the last posts I'm turning to the subsim community at large to see if there's any other sources out there that have access to the metal omnimeter or good pictures of one that they can post and I can in turn convert to an html version useable during the game. I have the programming part done and a working prototype exists (you just click and drag the sliders) using the graphics available so far but due to the 'angle' of the photos it just doesn't look right so any pics/photos/diagrams that clearly show the graduations would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.:salute:

[CapnScurvy]

A goal of mine has been to accurately preform manual targeting duties using instruments like the Omnimeter. I made the "Angle on Bow Calculator" to do just that when this game was released. It helps in finding target bearings and headings when certain known factors are used. In my opinion, the Omnimeter can help in several ways to find range to target and AoB by just using the scope's Telemeter markings and calculating the relationship between what you see and the true measurement of the targets height and length. To this end I wrote Gino to help in what he had regarding the Omnimeter.

As this post leads off, his assistance of the images of the U.S.S. Cod's Omnimeter was greatly appreciated. The referenced use of the Omnimeter can be found HERE (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm) in the United States official document called "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual", dated May, 1950. The document has been invaluable in determining what the real life scopes "field of view" and "magnification" should be to accurately give figures for the Omnimeter to use. Scroll down to Chapter 5 to find how the "range omnimeter" is used (by the way, the "Approach Officer" is you, the Captain). I do admit, some of the figures the manual uses are inaccurate when you do the math!! Who the heck were the proof readers for these kinds of manuals!?! I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but it's safe to say the games optics are not correct and will not produce a correct figure for an authentic tool as the Omnimeter to use. This isn't surprising considering the mast head heights used in the game are off target as well (that was why I created SCAF, to correct height figures at key reference points).

Anyway, my first task is to create a working Omnimeter in-game then calculate the correct "field of view", magnification, then find the correct ship length similar to finding the correct height and adding it to the Recognition Manual. I'll combine the SCAF height figures to allow the player to use a set of Length and Height figures for each ship to accurately use the Telemeter scope marking and Onmimeter to figure Range and AoB.

This first task is complete. The following images show a circular Omnimeter which can be pulled out/in with the "Attack Data Tool". The two working dials (both having the lighter grey color) can be manipulated separately with little interference from other dials. The outer A.O.B. dial is moved with the use of the Attack Data Tool AoB dial. Just mouse drag the AoB dial. The inner Telemeter High/Low Power scale dial can be moved by mousing the Height / Length area of the dial.

This is an image of the game at the standard 1024x768 resolution:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/Omnimeter_1024x768.jpg



This is with a resolution of 1280x1024:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/Omnimeter_1280x1024.jpg


I think the size I'm using is the best compromise for the game resolutions we're given. Needless to say, there's still work to be done. Going over all ships to find correct length will take some time but the placement of an Omnimeter in-game is the biggest part now out of the way.

I'm planning on calling the modification "Manual Targeting Assist". I'll be putting a WIP thread together soon to go over what I'm doing.

Best regards.

[Hitman]

Excellent job as usual Cpt Scurvy! Love to see the omnimeter finding its way into the game :yeah:, even if in circular shape.

BTW, what it does is actually the same as what the range dial on the back of the scope (And copied in the attack tool) does automatically when you move the split prism in the real periscope, and also in the game. :up:

[razark]

Basically, it's a circular slide rule, right?

Could the same method be used to add other tools to the game? Such as these:
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attackfinder/img/iswas1.jpg

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attackfinder/img/iswas2.jpg

[CapnScurvy]

As the images of the hand held Omnimeter show there are two movable sections. The Telemeter Scale portion and the AoB part on the right. Both have an indicator (pointer) to line up against either the Height / Length scale for the Telemeter reference or the Range scale for the AoB part.

To answer your question razark yes it can be done. Although for the American side, the number of dials that can be referenced and manipulated are limited. For instance it would have been fairly easy to make just one dial for each part of the Omnimeter, however you need to use both parts together if your finding AoB. This means you have to reference the two dials separately so they move independently of each other. Well I'll tell you that's no easy matter when the game looks at the center of rotation as the center of the dial and any part movable gets moved in unison with another part using this center point. The Was-Is tool you show or even my AoB Calculator could be placed into the game but I'm going to say the effort to find more than two dials to work independently may not happen.

Many of the dials found within the American side of play are earmarked as being "changed by code". This means the dials characteristics are not controlled by the Dials.cfg file but rather by the game code which we don't have access to. We're SOL when using them for our own projects. Others are linked to the American Position Keeper, which depending whether it's turned on or off the dials use for other purposes are limited. Then there's the space to place the dials onto a page. I'm still not sure if I like the Omnimeter placed below the Attack Data Tool or above it. The point is it can be pushed out of the way, but the American side is limited to dragging objects around like the German side is able to.

So yes, I think multi dials can be placed into various parts of the game but some areas may not allow this to occur such as the 3D rendered game stations of the Radar or Sonar screens.

[tomoose]

My lame attempts at the slide rule version certainly pale in comparison to this and I've given it the proverbial toss over the shoulder into the garbage can, LOL. Your dial certainly is a step up (and is also in-game which is something I couldn't hope to do).
Nice work, can't wait for the REL version.

:up:

[CapnScurvy]

Tomoose, don't throw out your ideas!!! There's always a better idea around the corner. This ones not set in stone.

When I made the handheld AoB Calculator (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110949&highlight=AoB+Calculator) back in 2007 I was following a previous 2 dial calculator that I'd used for SH 3. I added a third dial to help with AoB findings and simply cut and pasted the numbers literally onto the hand drawn dials. Pretty much a homemade attempt (PhotoShop can do wonders with erasing the glue spears). I had never seen a Was-Is (or is it Is-Was) before putting out the Calculator. Anyway, a much better looking Calculator made by reaper7 is stickied over at SubSim's Silent Hunter 4 main page, and he graciously gave me credit for his fine work. I'm very pleased to have someone else further on my attempts, when a little credit is thoughtfully used. We're all in this together, learning and doing and spinning our wheels for the enjoyment of the game. Everyone contributes, and we all get ahead at the same time.