[WIP] specific searchlight removal mod

[schlechter pfennig]

I'm working on a mod that removes the searchlights from vessels that (hopefully, by my POV :doh:) wouldn't carry and/or use them during an attack. (These are all from GWX 3.0)

This is a tentative list of those I'll be removing the searchlights from:

AC4=Cyclops
AMM=Ammunition Ship
BBAnson=HMS Anson
BBBismarck=KM Bismarck
BBDukeOfYork=HMS Duke of York
BBGneisenau=KM Gneisenau
BBHowe=HMS Howe
BBItalia=RN Italia
BBKingGeorgeV=HMS King George V
BBLittorio=RN Littorio
BBNelson=HMS Nelson
BBNevadaA=Nevada class
BBPrinceOfWales=HMS Prince of Wales
BBRevenge=Revenge class
BBRodney=HMS Rodney
BBRoma=RN Roma
BBScharnhorst=KM Scharnhorst
BBTirpitz=KM Tirpitz
BBUSSIowa=Iowa class
BBVittorio=RN Vittorio Veneto
BCDeutschland=KM Deutschland
BCGrafSpee=KM Graf Spee
BCHood=HMS Hood
BCRepulse=Renown class
BrAuxCruiser=Auxiliary Cruiser
C3Cargo=Large Cargo
CA_Averof=RHN Giorgios Averof
CABlucher=KM Bluecher
CACumberland=Kent class
CADevonshire=London class
CAFiume=RN Fiume
CAGorizia=RN Gorizia
CAHipper=KM Admiral Hipper
CALutzow=KM Luetzow
CANorfolk=Dorsetshire class
CAPEugen=KM Prinz Eugen
CAPola=RN Pola
CAPr26=Kirov class
CAPr26bis=Maxim Gorki class
CAScheer=KM Admiral Scheer
CAZara=RN Zara
CHT=Chatham-type Troop Ship
CLAbruzzi=RN Duca degli Abruzzi
CLBrooklyn=Brooklyn class
CLDido=Dido class
CLFiji=Fiji class
CLGaribaldi=RN Giuseppe Garibaldi
CLKclass=K class
CLNOrleans=New Orleans class
CLSouthampton=Southampton class
COBathurst=Bathurst class
COT=Coastal Tanker
CVEBogue=Bogue class
CVECasablanca=Casablanca class
CVGrafZeppelin=KM Graf Zeppelin
CVIllustrious=Illustrious class
CVUSSEssexCV9=Essex class
DEBPS=Uragan Torpedo Boat
DS=Large Depot Ship
DST=Large Trawler
FishBoatL=Motor Vessel
FishingBoat1=Motor Vessel
Ftboot=Flottenbegleiter class
GeAuxCruiser=Commerce Raider
GRA=Granville-type Freighter
HSL=Hospital Ship
KBL=Small Freighter
KCA=Passenger/Cargo
KGHAN=Large Hansa Freighter
KGN=Large Merchant
KLAKE=Great Lakes Freighter
KLS=Medium Cargo
KLSSHansa=Medium Hansa Freighter
KMCSHansa=Hansa Freighter
KMSSHansa=Hansa Type Freighter
KSQ=Tramp Steamer
KSS=Small Merchant
L01B=Heavy Merchant 01
L02A=Heavy Merchant 02
L02B=Heavy Merchant 02
L03B=Heavy Merchant 03
LL=Liberty Cargo
LLS=Medium Cargo
LPL=Ocean Liner
LSQ=Tramp Steamer
LSS=Small Merchant
LST=Landing Ship Tank
LTMS=Large Tanker
LTSF=Small Tanker
LUS=HMT Aquitania
LUSBremen=TS Bremen
LUSEuropa=TS Europa
M01A=Medium Merchant 01
M01B=Medium Merchant 01
M02B=Medium Merchant 02
M03B=Medium Merchant 03
M04B=Medium Merchant 04
M05A=Medium Merchant 05
M06B=Medium Merchant 06
M07B=Medium Merchant 07
M08B=Medium Merchant 08
M09B=Medium Merchant 09
M10A=Medium Merchant 10
M10B=Medium Merchant 10
M11B=Medium Merchant 11
M12B=Medium Merchant 12
M14B=Medium Merchant 14
M15B=Medium Merchant 15
M16A=Medium Merchant 16
M16B=Medium Merchant 16
M17B=Medium Merchant 17
M18A=Medium Merchant 18
M18B=Medium Merchant 18
M19A=Medium Merchant 19
M19B=Medium Merchant 19
M20A=Medium Merchant 20
M20B=Medium Merchant 20
M21B=CAM-Ship 02
M35B=Empire-type Freighter
M35Hansa=Hansa Freighter
M36B=CAM Freighter
MAS=MAS Torpedo Boat
MSTrawler=Isles class
MSTrawler1=Isles class
MTBVos=Motor Torpedo Boat
NDD_SU1=Novik class
NECT=Medium Tanker
NFAD=Dithmarschen class
NHPB=Vorpostenboot class
NKSEF=Coal Freighter
NKSMM=Small Cargo
NKSS_CAT=Cam Merchant
NLCVP=Higgins Boat
NLOL=Ceramic-type Ocean Liner
NMSR=Raeumboot class
NMSS=Sperrbrecher class
NOTCW=Whale Factory Ship
NPL_Hap=Small Passenger\Steamer
NPL_KDF=KDF Steamer
NPTB=Small Ocean Liner
NPTV_KFK=Kriegsfischkutter
NPTV=Small Vorpostenboot
NRC=Ore Carrier
NSCT=Coastal Freighter
NWP=Nipiwan Park-type Tanker
O01A=Naval Oiler 01
OTMS=Large Tanker
OTMST2=Modern Tanker
OTSF=Small Tanker
P01A=Converted Transport 01
P01B=Converted Transport 01
P02A=Converted Transport 02
P02B=Converted Transport 02
P03A=Converted Transport 03
P03B=Converted Transport 03
PKDF=KDF Liner
PPL=Large Troop Ship
PPLHansa=Hapag Liner
PPP=Liner Pasteur
PRT=Cyclops-type Collier
PTElco=Elco Torpedo Boat
PTL=Large Passenger/Cargo
PTR=Troop Ship
PTSchnellboot=Schnellboot
S01A=Light Merchant 01
S01B=Light Merchant 01
S02A=Light Merchant 02
S02B=Light Merchant 02
S03A=Light Merchant 03
S03B=Light Merchant 03
S04A=Light Merchant 04
S04B=Light Merchant 04
SCHO=Schooner
SD=Small Depot Ship
SJT=Intermediate Tanker
Sloop=Sloop
T01A=Tanker 01
T01B=Tanker 01
T02A=Tanker 02
T02B=Tanker 02
T03A=Tanker 03
T03B=Tanker 03
T04A=Tanker 04
T05B=Tanker 05
T06B=Tanker 06
T07B=Tanker 07
T08B=Tanker 08
T09A=Tanker 09
T11A=Tanker 11
T11B=Tanker 11
T12B=Tanker 12
T13A=Tanker 13
T13B=Tanker 13
T14B=Tanker CAM-Ship
T15A=Tanker 15
T16A=Tanker 16
T16B=Tanker 16
T17A=Tanker 17
T18A=Tanker 18
TR=Troop Transport
TUS=Large Liner
VV=Victory Cargo

These are the ones that will tentatively remain:

ATug=Armed Tugboat
BuV_Dock1=Floating Dock
BuV_Dock2=Floating Dock
COFlower=Flower class
DDA&B=A&B classes
DDBourrasque=Bourrasque class
DDCClass=C&D classes
DDClemson=Clemson class
DDFletcher=Fletcher class
DDHuntI=Hunt I class
DDHuntII=Hunt II class
DDHuntIII=Hunt III class
DDJClass=J&K classes
DDLClass=L class AA
DDNClass=N class
DDQClass=Q&R classes
DDSClass=S&T classes
DDSoldati=Soldati class
DDSomers=Somers class
DDTown=Town class
DDTribal=Tribal class
DDType34=Type 34 class
DDType36A=Type 36A class
DDType7y=Storozhevoy class
DDV&W=V&W classes
DEBuckley=Buckley class
DEEvarts=Evarts class
DEJCButler=JC Butler class
F01B=Steam Trawler 01
F02B=Steam Trawler 02
F03B=Steam Trawler 03
F04B=Steam Trawler 04
FFBlackSwan=Black Swan class
FFCaptainI=Captain class I
FFCaptainII=Captain class II
FFColony=Colony class
FFRiverClass=River class
FFTacoma=Tacoma class
LCMAL=Naval Artillery Barge
LCMTL=Naval Tranport Barge
LGH=Lightship
LTgBoat=Tugboat
MS1935=Minesweeper
NF_boat_4=Pelagic Trawler
NF_boat_5=Small Fishing Boat
PBTrawler=Armed Trawler
PCTrawler=ASW Trawler
RAFHSL=RAF Air Sea Rescue
Schute_M2=Small Coal Tender
Smallhunter=Sub chaser
TB1924=Type 23-24 classes
TB1937=Type 35-37 classes
TugBoat=Tugboat
FishingBoat=Fishing Boat
FishingBoat2=Small Trawler
FishingBoat3=Fishing Ketch
FishingBoat3L=Fishing Ketch
HarbourTugBoat=Large Tugboat
HDSubCT13=Sub Chaser 13 class

I predicated my choices based upon the following criteria:

1) Would they normally carry searchlights,
2) Are they sub-chasers/hunters.

Some of the ones I'm tentatively allowing searchlights are ones like fishing boats and trawlers, which could reasonably (IMO) be expected to carry powerful lights as part of their normal course of business. The only 'fishing boat' that I didn't follow this rationale with was the Whale Factory Ship, which I couldn't see firing up their searchlights and effectively holler out "Here I am!" :D

Please, take a look over this. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated!

[Madox58]

In the K-ship.
I added a searchlight/spotlight type deal.
It has a very narrow range and rarely comes on.
(Easter Egg Alert!)

:03:

[schlechter pfennig]

In the K-ship.
I added a searchlight/spotlight type deal.
It has a very narrow range and rarely comes on.
(Easter Egg Alert!)

:03:

Think we can keep that one then! :D

I'm having a devil of a time finding the folders for the following:
F01B=Steam Trawler 01
F02B=Steam Trawler 02
F03B=Steam Trawler 03
F04B=Steam Trawler 04
LTgBoat=Tugboat
PCTrawler=ASW Trawler
TugBoat=Tugboat

Help?

[Madox58]

The search/spot is hard coded into the dat for the K-Ship.
:03:

I wanted it to have a narrow beam/activation that standard
search lites could not handle.

The fact that no one has ever reported them seen?
Tells me it works as designed!
(It must fly over you at less then 250 feet or so?)

But it is a clue to further modify other Search lite settings.
Also in the K-Ship.
The Guy up front with binos?
He will turn and look at enemy Units.
(Another Easter Egg Alert!)
:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Think we can keep that one then! :D

I'm having a devil of a time finding the folders for the following:
F01B=Steam Trawler 01
F02B=Steam Trawler 02
F03B=Steam Trawler 03
F04B=Steam Trawler 04
LTgBoat=Tugboat
PCTrawler=ASW Trawler
TugBoat=Tugboat

Help?

I've responded to your PM http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

The search/spot is hard coded into the dat for the K-Ship.
:03:

I wanted it to have a narrow beam/activation that standard
search lites could not handle.

The fact that no one has ever reported them seen?
Tells me it works as designed!
(It must fly over you at less then 250 feet or so?)

But it is a clue to further modify other Search lite settings.
Also in the K-Ship.
The Guy up front with binos?
He will turn and look at enemy Units.
(Another Easter Egg Alert!)
:haha:

LMAO :DL

[bigboywooly]

LTgBoat=Tugboat - NLTF
PCTrawler=ASW Trawler - NTRW
TugBoat=Tugboat - NATF

And IIRC didnt BBs carry searchlights :hmmm: and cruisers come to that
Will have to check on that

[schlechter pfennig]

LTgBoat=Tugboat - NLTF
PCTrawler=ASW Trawler - NTRW
TugBoat=Tugboat - NATF

And IIRC didnt BBs carry searchlights :hmmm: and cruisers come to that
Will have to check on that

Please do! If they historically did I'll just add them back in.

[bigboywooly]

Well have come acroos a pic from 1893 on a BB
lol
And one in WW1
This
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battleship-Searchlights-Seattle-WWII-postcards-/120079796732
Is a 1940s US postcard

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?157795-Battleship-Thread/page4 shows lights on more than a few so yeah leave the BBs

HMS Hood

Searchlights
As Completed (1920) 8x 36" Searchlights
- x4 on Searchlight Platform between funnels
- x2 on After Searchlight Platform
- x2 on platform on foremast 4x 24" signaling searchlights on Admiral's Bridge


July 1921 Refit
2x 36" searchlights removed from Searchlight Platform between funnels


September-November 1923 Refit
2x 36" searchlights replaced (as above)


October-December 1924 Refit
2x 36" searchlights once again removed (as above)


November 1925 - July 1926 Refit
Searchlights on After Concentrating Position moved abreast each other
2x 24" signaling searchlights removed


June - October 1936 Refit
36" searchlight platform removed from foremast


Feb-August 1939 Refit
4x 40" searchlights added, one on either side of After Concentrating Position and one either side just aft of number two funnel
2x 24" Signaling light added on bridge
Replacement of 36" searchlights and removal of the platform between the funnels.


Final Outfit (As Sunk)
6 x 40" searchlights (2 just aft of second funnel and 4 on the After Concentrating Position)
4x 24" signaling searchlight

http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs5.htm

Cruisers too - well US ones deffo

The cruiser group attacked first, with De Ruyter in the lead, followed by Java, Piet Hein, Ford, and Pope in the order named. Arrival off the south coast of Bali took place as scheduled at about 2130 on the 19th. An hour later the action began. The cruisers searchlights illuminated two enemy vessels off the port bow, and firing from the gun batteries began at once

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-CN-Java/USN-CN-JavaSea-12.html

USS Indianapolis (CA 35) - Closeup view of her after half, from the port side, at the Mare Island Navy Yard, 19 April 1942, following overhaul. Note her SOC seaplanes, 5"/25 guns and ready service ammunition, after smokestack, searchlights, "horse" collar emergency life float alongside the railing in lower right center and top edge of armor belt. USS Raleigh (CL 7) is in the background.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/035/04035.htm

[h.sie]

i think the question is not wheather battleships historically had searchlights. in my opinion, the question is: if they had lights, did they use the lights when near a uboat / in alarm state?

if in sh3 a ship has searchlights in .eqp file; it will use the lights when in alarm state.

but maybe in the WWII battleships have lights but only for night surface battles and not for hunting uboats???

if so, it would be historically more accurate to remove the lights in sh3 because it's not a surface battle simulator. Otherwise battleships would be lighted up like a christmas tree - an easy target for uboats.

i think that is what Sailor Steve said in a different thread.

[schlechter pfennig]

i think the question is not wheather battleships historically had searchlights. in my opinion, the question is: if they had lights, did they use the lights when near a uboat / in alarm state?

if in sh3 a ship has searchlights in .eqp file; it will use the lights when in alarm state.

but maybe in the WWII battleships have lights but only for night surface battles and not for hunting uboats.

if so, it would be historically more accurate to remove the lights in sh3 because it's not a surface battle simulator and battleships would be lighted up like a christmas tree - an easy target for uboats.

i think that is what Sailor Steve said in a different thread.

::nods:: One of (the many) little quirky-irks about SHIII: all or nothing. :cry:

In this case (searchlights) it's not so much a matter of whether they were equipped with them as much as it is when they would have used them.

Unless I get really negative feedback, I think, after consideration, I'm going to stay with the choices as I'd already listed.

[bigboywooly]

Ah good point h.sie
Not thought of it that way

Well tis your mod Herr pfennig so make it as you wish :up:

[h.sie]

hi bbw,

it's only my thought, or, more exactly, it's that what i understood from sailor steves argumentation in a different thread to this topic.

what about not completely remove the lights, but instead restrict the availability time to a very short time period (some days or weeks) , which is different for every ship type and even every single light of one ship. so there is randomness and maybe one ship of the convoy has a searchlight. surprise!!!..... only an idea.

greetings,
h.sie

[bigboywooly]

Yeah that can be done
A better way would be to use SH3commander random function to drop different Eqp files in
Some with searchlights some without
You can even take it further and do the same with weapons as not all mercs were armed same time

If only I understood how to use that function
:har:

[h.sie]

Hi BBW,

I thought of SH3Cmdr, too. But I see two potential problems with that:

1) In RandomizedEvents.cfg I see that only numbers can be generated randomly. I fear, that a special date format like 19390101 is not supported.

2) Even if the above date format is supported, there remains a second problem: In the .eqp file the first value (StartDate) is an independent random number, no problem, but the second value (EndDate) is a dependent random number. it depends on the StartDate (it may not be smaller than that) and depends on the desired (also random?) duration of the availability. I fear, that SH3Cmdr does not support such dependencies for random variables, but I may be wrong in this point. JScones surely knows better.

h.sie

Edit: Currently read the SH3Cmdr Manual and found something about a random folder function. But I cannot see how it works.

Edit #2: Found an old post which describes the random folder function:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95448&page=7

This could really work. Searchlights and weapons could be varied randomly, but that is a really big bunch of hard work.

[LGN1]

Hi,

I used to randomly remove the searchlights via SH3Commander (random folder feature). However, the main problem is that it can cause CTDs :down: Changing the eqp files during a patrol seems to be a bad idea. That's why I stopped it.

On a related topic:

If someone knows I would like to know what files you can change during a patrol. Since SH3Commander basically activates and de-activates mods during a patrol, it would be good to know which files are a no-go.

Best, LGN1

[h.sie]

Hi LGN1,

thanks for that comment. So I will save a lot of time.

And .... what did you do with the searchlights?

h.sie

[schlechter pfennig]

Ok, after thinking things over the last coupla days (and also reading everyones' suggestions and stuff) I've come up with a (hopefully) reasonable searchlight guideline.


All escorts, destroyers, etc. (i.e. sub hunters) should have searchlights.
Battleships and cruisers will have searchlights. Although they aren't sub hunters per se, I sure would hate to be surface engaged by their main armament. Plus they are, in the escort role, useful as anti-aircraft batteries, and I can see searchlights being useful to them in that role (although I have no idea if the actual SHIII searchlights can point up).
Civilian vessels, that in the course of their normal working environment, could be expected to have searchlights (ex. trawlers).
That should leave pretty much just merchants, and I've decided what to do about those. It's pretty pointless (and rather counterproductive) mounting searchlights if you aren't armed. It's the same as waving a huge banner and declaring "Here I am! Sink me!".

So what I'm going to do is examine all the remaining ships after sifting them through the above filter. If they never become armed and they have searchlights I'll remove the searchlights. If they do become armed at some point, I'll randomly set the start date for their searchlights between 0 - 6 months.

Let me know what you think, please.

[h.sie]

Hi SP,

if I'm informed right, almost all merchants & tankers are armed. Only a small number of ships will go through your filter.

h.sie

[LGN1]

Hi,

(First content removed. I was wrong. Does not work :nope:)

Anyway, back then I only removed it from small merchants. I kept them on the larger ones because they were annoying :DL and made my life as a sub commander more difficult. The only really annoying thing about them is that they are switched on immediately after you have attacked them. I think after a torpedo explosion it should take some time/there should be a delay.

Cheers, LGN1

PS: I removed the searchlights from: NKBL_, NKCA_, NKLK_, NKSEF, NKSQ_, NKSs_, NLSQ_, NLSs_, NNWP_, NOTSf, NSCT_, NSJT_ Depending on my mood, I activate the mod or deactivate it.

[Sailor Steve]

That should leave pretty much just merchants, and I've decided what to do about those. It's pretty pointless (and rather counterproductive) mounting searchlights if you aren't armed. It's the same as waving a huge banner and declaring "Here I am! Sink me!".


So what I'm going to do is examine all the remaining ships after sifting them through the above filter. If they never become armed and they have searchlights I'll remove the searchlights. If they do become armed at some point, I'll randomly set the start date for their searchlights between 0 - 6 months.

Let me know what you think, please.
I'm not sure about night air raids in the game. I thing the only thing they use the searchlights for is to look for u-boats. Either way, I think you're going to have everything from trawlers to warships that should be sneaking away while the destroyers draw your attention instead waving lights around shouting "HERE I AM!!!"

I think no ships should have searchlights except the lit-up neutral merchants and the escorts. Warships, armed merchants and others aren't going to be lighting themselves up trying to light you up. They're going to try to get away in the dark.

[LGN1]

Hi Sailor Steve,

but after you have attacked them they know that you can see them. So, switching on the lights helps them to see you, but does not help you (because you see them anyway). The only thing might be to avoid attracting more subs :hmmm:

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

Hi LGN1,

when I attacked one of them, does not mean, that I can see all of them if they stay dark.

h.sie

[Sailor Steve]

Exactly. I fire torpedoes at a battleship. One hits, the others miss. While the destroyers are looking for me the battleship is going to be trying to escape. Whether he can see me or not is irrelevant. He's going to hope I stop looking at him and dive away, since my periscopes are not very good in the dark.

Same with an armed merchant. He's not going to advertise his presence if I just torpedoed some other merchant. He'll leave that up to the escorts.

[schlechter pfennig]

Exactly. I fire torpedoes at a battleship. One hits, the others miss. While the destroyers are looking for me the battleship is going to be trying to escape. Whether he can see me or not is irrelevant. He's going to hope I stop looking at him and dive away, since my periscopes are not very good in the dark.

Same with an armed merchant. He's not going to advertise his presence if I just torpedoed some other merchant. He'll leave that up to the escorts.

At the risk of sounding as if I'm waffling like an Eggo :D:O: that makes a great deal of sense and was very much what I'd been originally thinking/picturing. So I'm going back to "Plan A" and starting the removal as we speak.

[Sailor Steve]

You won't be the first waffler around here.
:rotfl2:

Do what you think is best. Ignore any whiners (including me). If we don't like your decisions we can make our own mod.:D

[schlechter pfennig]

You won't be the first waffler around here.
:rotfl2:

Do what you think is best. Ignore any whiners (including me). If we don't like your decisions we can make our own mod.:D

:D

I'm uploading the mod to FileFront at the moment. Soon as it's finished I'll repost as a [REL]

[LGN1]

Hi,

I guess, the present situation is a typical SH3 problem: both ways are not perfect. Depending on the situation, searchlights should be used or shouldn't. I guess a lone, slow merchant should use the searchlight in order to be able to fight back (at least force the sub under water and try to escape with max. speed).

Anyway, nice work schlechter pfennig! It gives people a choice so everyone can decide for himself what he thinks is more realistic.

Cheers, LGN1