What do you feel about SH5 now?

[wingtip]

you need another option
"i havent bought the game and still undecided if i may or may not purchase"


that would be my choice, but since thats not on your list i'd have to go with havent bought it yet and dont plan to....

[Flopper]

you need another option
"i havent bought the game and still undecided if i may or may not purchase"


that would be my choice, but since thats not on your list i'd have to go with havent bought it yet and dont plan to....

I feel the same way, but went ahead with "haven't but probably will." I assume there'll be an eventual price I can't pass up, no matter what.

[IanC]

I hope the result of this poll will close the "sh3 was a bad game either and became a great game with mods just like SH5"....SH3 was a great game even whithout mods ....if you look the review of that period you can see an average of 5 stars out of 5....Sh5 has an average of 2 out of 5.

I know there are great modders out there that can do miracles, but in my opinion SH5 is hopeless!:cry:

danizzz don't get intimidated by a couple of members who tell you to leave the forum. You're entitled to your opinion, especially when that's what the thread is about!
Also from what I'm seeing you haven't said anything that wasn't true. SH3 got great reviews when released, SH5 got horrible reviews. Period.
Now... is SH5 hopeless? I guess only time will tell. If the game doesn't get patched properly by Ubi, then it doesn't look too good. Only they can fix the hardcoded bugs. Let's hope for at least two more patches.

[Mad_Mark]

With mods this game has been become so much more enjoyable but without those mods this game would suck.
But tonight I am so angry as I cannot join Ubisoft ,their servers down preventing me from playing my game !
That is so wrong for a singleplaying session.
I hope someone at Ubisoft is being electricuted right know causing this disruption, that is the only excuss I will except.

[Flopper]

With mods this game has been become so much more enjoyable but without those mods this game would suck.
But tonight I am so angry as I cannot join Ubisoft ,their servers down preventing me from playing my game !
That is so wrong for a singleplaying session.
I hope someone at Ubisoft is being electricuted right know causing this disruption, that is the only excuss I will except.

I have to admit I'm seriously worried about what kind of tantrum I'd throw if that happened to me after paying full price. My fuse is measured in microns.

[SurfnSea]

I voted: I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy itIt seems that mods are starting to make this game playable. So those that have bought this game are finally getting what they deserved in the first place. The issue of not being able to connect is still an issue, however.

Even if these great modders keep on improving SH5 I'll still not buy until DRM is removed. The ethical issue and UBI's way of doing business keep me from supporting their view by buying this game. I bought SH2, 3, & 4 even though UBI treats customers like garbage. But the DRM is past a point I'm willing to cross.

[Dimitrius07]

What i feel. As same as before, if you support crap you will get crap. Thats my opinion about Ubi$oft. I guess the times when developers put love and care into they work are long gone. Instead we got money hungry useless developers with lack of any kind of imagination.

[Kepler]

What I feel? If I could play SH3 GWX 3 in full widescreen mode, without the bug that corrupts save games if you save while submerged, I would have erased SH5 a long time ago. As is, I have SH5 on the computer, but I don't really play it. And it's not just the bugs, the horrible AI, etc - I simply feel the devs have made a set og design decisions that alienate me from their product.
It's just not the sub sim experience I'm looking for.

[Task Force]

Well, Since I farked up my GWX/sh3 copy, and It has decided it wont run unless I turn the resolution way down low. Ive learned to live with SH5...

After playing with it abit, installing a crap load of mods... Ive actualy started likeing the game abit.

[Reece]

Well, Since I farked up my GWX/sh3 copy, and It has decided it wont run unless I turn the resolution way down low.
That's strange!:hmmm: SH3 is nowhere heavy on computer demands as SH5, I must assume this is some sort of problem within Windows 7!:-?

[Task Force]

yea, yea. and I hate looking at a 1024 x 768 screen... lol

[kylania]

That's strange!:hmmm: SH3 is nowhere heavy on computer demands as SH5, I must assume this is some sort of problem within Windows 7!:-?

I've had a ton of problems getting SH3 to work with Windows 7. :(

[soldat32]

I still feel the same.Its garbage.I have stuck to SH3 and 4 and I am not missing a thing.:yeah:

[jwilliams]

I still feel the same.Its garbage.I have stuck to SH3 and 4 and I am not missing a thing.:yeah:

You soon will be!
SH5 is getting better all the time. IMO it's almost up to the playability of SH3 now.

Patch 1.2 fixed the moral bug. and TDW fixed the stadimeter and UI. :yeah:

Onlything it's really lacking now is more ships.

I cant believe how quickly this game is being fixed.

I dont even want to play SH3 GWX3 anymore.... Just looks too old. :yep:

:salute:

[tonschk]

Already Is NO way Back to SH3 , SH3 even with GWX looks dated :wah:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1213/jgf.png (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/jgf.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1559/mmmz.png (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/mmmz.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[janh]

Already Is NO way Back to SH3 , SH3 even with GWX looks dated :wah:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Now that is very individual, and I would not subscribe to your statement. Anything below 256 colors I would consider dated, but when it comes to the rest, what I care way more about than graphics is realism, features, gameplay ideas, potential, excitement, etc. All of those have been in many excellent games in the past, and typically don't require eye-candy. For the latter, I prefer TV or photos anyway. So for me, unless someone reports wolfpacks working properly and coordinating attacks in a historical fashion (and of course the DRM goes away when it reaches the discount bin), it will remain SHIII+GWX. It has all the rest I need for a submarine simulation already.

[IanC]

I see tonschk is still posting his screenshots...
Ok you convinced me tonschk, I can never go back to playing SH3 because it looks ooold dude! :roll:

[robbo180265]

I think it's all subjective anyway - I fired up SH5 and was completely blown away by the graphics again. However, my U Boat sim fix still comes from a heavily modded SH3.

One day (as long as there is interest) I'm sure that SH5 will equal or even surpass SH3 + supermods. When that time comes I will happily upgrade my pooter and start playing it all the time.

BTW tonschk - are you aware that you can make your pics smaller via MS paint? You use the stretch / skew function to do it.

Might not take half a hour for them to load up then lol.;)

[Sailor Steve]

His pictures take so long to load because he's posting them in .png, which is several times heavier than .jpg. Use Photobucket. It automatically converts them to .jpg and automatically sizes them.

[Méo]

Hmmm ...I see another U-boat in tonschk's picture of SH5 and hopefully real wolfpacks someday. :yep:

Now THAT would really outclass SH3!! :rock:

[dogboat]

Got the game on release day, was very excited, but then I played it and was so dissappointed. I feel Ubisoft has ruined the game and their reputation by releasing such a poor game. Their attempts to patch the game so far has been a farce. I have uninstalled the game and it is sitting on the shelf collecting dust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope in the future that someone, Grey Wolves modders e.g., will make a supermod like GWX for SH5 and then the game will be playable again.

I live in hope and anticipation of such a mod. In my opinion it's disgraceful that the game was released in such an unplayable state, i.e. multi-player.

As I have said, it sits on the shelf collecting dust and there it will stay until my prayers are answered. I am addicted to the Subsim games, multiplayer and career mode.:|\\:damn::damn::damn::damn:

Sincerely Mr Who.:|\\

[SteelViking]

I must say, the patches have been less than stellar. However, there are already some really awesome mods out already, and more are being made everyday. With my current mod soup I am pretty happy with SH5.

[Jimbuna]

If as much time and effort is put into SH5 as was put into SH3 I have high hopes it will eventually evolve into something really fantastic.

There are already some extremely talented people working on it http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[scratch81]

Aye, keep up the great work guys. I'll try not to drink your share of the beer:()1:

[tankeriv]

In my opinion:

5. It's a total fiasco

Have bought it but returned it the other week with the notes unplayable due to many bugs.

Unbelieveble.
I have been looking forward to this game so much.
Now I simply cannot play it the way I want it.
The way I have fun.

I do not want to work with it like a graphics editor like photoshop.
Click the buttons and dance with it the way the application likes me to do.
In an effort that eventually something comes out the way that I want it.

No I want it to work the way I want it to have fun with it.

Like I could with SH3 & SH4.

[aviatorhi]

Haven't and Won't get it, DRM and piss poor release quality to blame... I find it funny as sin that WOTA for iPhone will end up having Wolfpacks and SHI-V still have not.

[danizzz]

danizzz don't get intimidated by a couple of members who tell you to leave the forum. You're entitled to your opinion, especially when that's what the thread is about!
Also from what I'm seeing you haven't said anything that wasn't true. SH3 got great reviews when released, SH5 got horrible reviews. Period.
Now... is SH5 hopeless? I guess only time will tell. If the game doesn't get patched properly by Ubi, then it doesn't look too good. Only they can fix the hardcoded bugs. Let's hope for at least two more patches.

Don't worry, i'm not intimidated by nobody:up::DL!!

I have the entire collection of silent hunter and since 2005 i'm a big fan of subsims. Said that i have all the rights to say what i think about the game on this forum.

Apart the modding world, i still found incredible that a big softwarehouse can produce a "still" unfinished game.

Sh3 was, out of the box, buggy but i never thought one time that it was an unfinished game...i can't say the same about SH5...

I hope this stop in the silent hunter saga will be the basement for a new generation of subsims.

[Nordmann]

Apart the modding world, i still found incredible that a big softwarehouse can produce a "still" unfinished game.

You realise this is nothing new, right? You just described about 85-90% of the gaming industry!

[janh]

Originally Posted by danizzz http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1401791#post1401791)
Apart the modding world, i still found incredible that a big softwarehouse can produce a "still" unfinished game.


You realise this is nothing new, right? You just described about 85-90% of the gaming industry!

And then the analysts sit over the sales number and wonder what went wrong... "the weather"? "It was too rainy, so we couldn't complete work on the game and had to put in more anti-customers measures..."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/videogame-stocks-fall-on-disappointing-sales-2010-05-14

<<"Unfortunately, we are at a loss to identify precisely what was wrong, given relatively robust sales for the three months prior, decent weather, an improving economy, and a deep catalog of recently released titles," wrote Michael Pachter of Wedbush Morgan in a note to clients.>>

I can't but laugh at those guys...

When the economy slows down, and customers wallets dry up, then anyone willing to make sales needs to provide better quality, added value, just more reasons to "convince" the customers. But if wallets are tight, quality drops, and customers are worse off than pirates... hmmh, I can't see a connection there, can I?

[Nordmann]

And then the analysts sit over the sales number and wonder what went wrong... "the weather"? "It was too rainy, so we couldn't complete work on the game and had to put in more anti-customers measures..."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/videogame-stocks-fall-on-disappointing-sales-2010-05-14

<<"Unfortunately, we are at a loss to identify precisely what was wrong, given relatively robust sales for the three months prior, decent weather, an improving economy, and a deep catalog of recently released titles," wrote Michael Pachter of Wedbush Morgan in a note to clients.>>

I can't but laugh at those guys...

When the economy slows down, and customers wallets dry up, then anyone willing to make sales needs to provide better quality, added value, just more reasons to "convince" the customers. But if wallets are tight, quality drops, and customers are worse off than pirates... hmmh, I can't see a connection there, can I?

It's not endemic to the software industry either, virtually all companies are pulling the same damned stunts, and have been for years. Then the economy goes all to hell, and they wonder why they're suddenly in the red.

It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots, yet apparently many of them have yet to realise this.

[scrapser]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the software entertainment industry reached the point of diminishing returns somewhere back in the mid to late 90's. Since that time period, no gaming software for the PC has been released complete and reasonably bug free. And it's only gotten worse.

The only explanation I can think of is the complexity of PC hardware (graphics and audio) and the power of the software used to create games has become so great that it is now impossible to create a complete and reasonably bug free game within any company's budget constraints. This would also explain why console games are reasonably stable by comparison. They create cookie-cutter games for release on a cookie-cutter platform.

To me the solution is for the gaming industry to recognize they have gone way beyond what is possible with the current business model and accept (consumers would need to do this, too) that to produce decent games in today's world means raising the price of each title so they can afford to do things right.

If they cannot do this, I wish they would simply stop publishing garbage. All they are doing is turning everyone off to this hobby.

[janh]

The only explanation I can think of is the complexity of PC hardware (graphics and audio) and the power of the software used to create games has become so great that it is now impossible to create a complete and reasonably bug free game within any company's budget constraints. This would also explain why console games are reasonably stable by comparison. They create cookie-cutter games for release on a cookie-cutter platform.

To me the solution is for the gaming industry to recognize they have gone way beyond what is possible with the current business model and accept (consumers would need to do this, too) that to produce decent games in today's world means raising the price of each title so they can afford to do things right.

If they cannot do this, I wish they would simply stop publishing garbage. All they are doing is turning everyone off to this hobby.

Yeah, that sounds like it. I would support your opinion, and I think console games are so successful because they combine eye-candy with simplicity. This obviously is what the new generation of casual gamers looks forward to, as opposed to what I and my generation where after (a game that gives you headaches and nightmare, let's you get up an hour earlier to play a little before school/work...-- those were the times).
In my opinion the cost of a truly innovative, well-designed and flawlessly executed game can be higher than it is in average presently. Matrix War in the Pacific-AE is such an example, where devs have build a really detailed game with novel features, and they charge a fair amount for it.

However, I think developers and publishers in the future shouldn't expect anymore to become rich from making games. I think those times are over, and it has become more of a routine business with small margins -- no longer a "hollywood" style job. The games published in the last decade are converging in terms of graphics quality, and though it can get tiny steps better, it is already pretty close to photorealism and will not make big jumps anymore. So that will soon end as a selling factor. Development of challenging AI has been mostly abandoned since "Multiplayer" serves as a replacement that needs less development costs, and even apparently enhances game life substantially. Same as modding, which also adds to longlevity and finally leads to older titles competing with newer ones for a much longer time interval than used to be in the 90s. And hence, lower sales of new titles. Unfortunately, game ideas, features and design have also already converged in the past decade and there are rather few innovate ideas presented today. Just another title, map or adding another 10 units doesn't make a new game...

[Dutch]

Until the DRM is eliminated the game can be pure gold and it will STILL be a case of a game company treating us like criminals and asking us to trust them to continue to run a miserly three servers. Trust is a two way street and I don't trust 'em. End of story.

I agree with Rockin, I will not buy the game simply because of DRM. I understand there are bugs in it (which only add to me not buying it) that mods might be able to fix. But the two key things for me is that #1 DRM and #2 Its half a game for Christ sake, you only play through 1943.....really? You people bought into it?

[IanC]

I agree with Rockin, I will not buy the game simply because of DRM. I understand there are bugs in it (which only add to me not buying it) that mods might be able to fix. But the two key things for me is that #1 DRM and #2 Its half a game for Christ sake, you only play through 1943.....really? You people bought into it?

But... but... it has amazing graphics!! *insert huge SH5 screenshot*

[soldat32]

You soon will be!
SH5 is getting better all the time. IMO it's almost up to the playability of SH3 now.

Patch 1.2 fixed the moral bug. and TDW fixed the stadimeter and UI. :yeah:

Onlything it's really lacking now is more ships.

I cant believe how quickly this game is being fixed.

I dont even want to play SH3 GWX3 anymore.... Just looks too old. :yep:

:salute:

No crew management,no full war or mass of different subs.Online saves.All those elements sunk it for me.Eye candy isn't my top priority.Playability is.

[kylania]

No crew management

It's different now, it's RPG "training" and morale now. Arguably better than moving little dolls around a play house constantly. That said, I do miss training certain guys to be good at certain things and the mortality of my crew in SH3. Never did like/understand SH4's crew system

no full war

How many times did you get past 1943 in SH3 anyway?

mass of different subs.

I do miss the variety indeed. Then again, I love the Type VII and ended up sailing one of them most of the time anyway. Lots of people miss the bigger boats though.

Online saves.

Optional and better to turn them off to be honest.

[jwilliams]

No crew management
Crew management does exist. It's just different now. And most probably someone will mod it to be similar to SH3's crew management

no full war
I'd imagine that it wont take too long before this is modded to 1945. And Ubi may even release this as an addon.

mass of different subs
Yeah i do miss the type II. But its only a matter of time before either its modded in or Ubi release an addon.

It's also fun to be testing all these great mods. I never had the opportunity with SH3, as i hadn't discovered Subsim and all these great modders. :yeah:

So IMHO it likely to be less than a year before the playabilty of SH5 is much better than SH3. :yep:

SH3 has had 5 years of modding..... How will SH5 be in 5 years? :hmmm:

Time will tell........

[JScones]

But... but... it has amazing graphics!! *insert huge SH5 screenshot*
You left out a couple of :salute::woot::yeah::up:

[Elder-Pirate]

I do not know whom the so called intelligent person was to stop this poll but in any case this is my vote.

I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy it.


Those were the words made out by the OP but in my case it will read: I haven't bought this game and I will NEVER buy it!

When will you people stop bowing to this false god UBI?

[SteelViking]

I do not know whom the so called intelligent person was to stop this poll but in any case this is my vote.

I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy it.


Those were the words made out by the OP but in my case it will read: I haven't bought this game and I will NEVER buy it!

When will you people stop bowing to this false god UBI?

No one is bowing to Ubi, I am pretty sure that everyone here greatly resents Ubi's behavior. I for one am simply not willing to give up on a game that WILL be better if given the proper time and work.

In fact, I am realizing a pattern, anyone who spends most of their time on the modding forum is up beat, and says SH5 has a future. The ones I don't see there much are making the negative comments.

I mean no offence to anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is strictly an observation.

[Zedi]

I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy it.



Who cares :zzz:

[Méo]

No one is bowing to Ubi, I am pretty sure that everyone here greatly resents Ubi's behavior. I for one am simply not willing to give on a game that WILL be better if given the proper time and work.

In fact, I am realizing a pattern, anyone who spends most of their time on the modding forum is up beat, and says SH5 has a future. The ones I don't see there much are making the negative comments.

I mean no offence to anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is strictly an observation.

Great post! :up:

[tonschk]

No one is bowing to Ubi, I am pretty sure that everyone here greatly resents Ubi's behavior. I for one am simply not willing to give on a game that WILL be better if given the proper time and work.

In fact, I am realizing a pattern, anyone who spends most of their time on the modding forum is up beat, and says SH5 has a future. The ones I don't see there much are making the negative comments.

I mean no offence to anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is strictly an observation.


:rock: Very Good Point , :rock: I completely AGREE :up:

.

[Sailor Steve]

I agree too - SteelViking hit it right on the head. :yep:

NoI mean no offence to anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is strictly an observation.
Anyone who takes offence at you comments here is looking for a fight, nothing more. Very well said indeed.

[Jimbuna]

I agree too - SteelViking hit it right on the head. :yep:

Anyone who takes offence at you comments here is looking for a fight, nothing more. Very well said indeed.

Agreed http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Elder-Pirate]

Funny how some of the agrees here on these last few posts do not even have SH5 on their hard drive and have said they would not, under UBI's now conditions to ever have ( at least by their own words in the recent past ). If you ( with SH5 ) like to play the game only when the publisher ( ubi in this case ) lets you and NOT in private offline either, then that is your business and your right but it is still bowing.

As much as I disagree with UBI I must admit that they do know how to sucker a person in. Heck even I have their SH versions 3 & 4 and love them both but they didn't at that time try and keel haul the player

I'm not looking for a fight as stated by sailor Steve but again that's his opinion.
The above is my opinion and as yours it is my right.

[Nisgeis]

Funny how some of the agrees here on these last few posts do not even have SH5 on their hard drive and have said they would not, under UBI's now conditions to ever have ( at least by their own words in the recent past ). If you ( with SH5 ) like to play the game only when the publisher ( ubi in this case ) lets you and NOT in private offline either, then that is your business and your right but it is still bowing.

As much as I disagree with UBI I must admit that they do know how to sucker a person in. Heck even I have their SH versions 3 & 4 and love them both but they didn't at that time try and keel haul the player

I'm not looking for a fight as stated by sailor Steve but again that's his opinion.
The above is my opinion and as yours it is my right.

I didn't like this post, so I didn't read it.

[robbo180265]

Funny how some of the agrees here on these last few posts do not even have SH5 on their hard drive and have said they would not, under UBI's now conditions to ever have ( at least by their own words in the recent past ). If you ( with SH5 ) like to play the game only when the publisher ( ubi in this case ) lets you and NOT in private offline either, then that is your business and your right but it is still bowing.

As much as I disagree with UBI I must admit that they do know how to sucker a person in. Heck even I have their SH versions 3 & 4 and love them both but they didn't at that time try and keel haul the player

I'm not looking for a fight as stated by sailor Steve but again that's his opinion.
The above is my opinion and as yours it is my right.

Yeah I don't like the post either - I hear it's bugged flawed and frankly unreadable , so I didn't bother.:O:

[Talyllyn]

I am thoroughly enjoying this game.

Yes it has (lots) of room for improvement but for a relatively small cost it has entertained me for several hours and will entertain me for several more.

I could spend twice as much going to a soccer match to have 90mins of serious dissappointment.

I only started SH3 after GWX was around so I have no idea how good or bad that was out of the box initially, but at least it had a reasonable set of instructions.

[SteelViking]

I do not know whom the so called intelligent person was to stop this poll but in any case this is my vote.

I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy it.


Those were the words made out by the OP but in my case it will read: I haven't bought this game and I will NEVER buy it!

When will you people stop bowing to this false god UBI?

Funny how some of the agrees here on these last few posts do not even have SH5 on their hard drive and have said they would not, under UBI's now conditions to ever have ( at least by their own words in the recent past ). If you ( with SH5 ) like to play the game only when the publisher ( ubi in this case ) lets you and NOT in private offline either, then that is your business and your right but it is still bowing.

As much as I disagree with UBI I must admit that they do know how to sucker a person in. Heck even I have their SH versions 3 & 4 and love them both but they didn't at that time try and keel haul the player

I'm not looking for a fight as stated by sailor Steve but again that's his opinion.
The above is my opinion and as yours it is my right.

No matter what you do, you cannot get around some control by publishers anymore, you either have a cd code for the game(stops you from multiple installs), you have to register the game, you have a cd check, you have a DRM, the list goes on. If you think that putting up with restrictions such as these as bowing, then I think everyone on the planet could fit through a sub hatch no problem.

I personally am spending no time just "playing" anyway. I am either helping others with their mods, shaping up my own mods, or testing mods for people. I do that stuff because DRM or not, that is what we need right now and will need for years to come from many people who wish to help. And that, sir, is my opinion.

[THE_MASK]

''only play when the publisher says'' I dont agree with the drm and i wish they would patch it out but i have had SH5 since it came out and havnt been denied playing once . I can play it whenever i want . I am always online . Thats how i surf the net as well , online .

[Elder-Pirate]

No matter what you do, you cannot get around some control by publishers anymore, you either have a cd code for the game(stops you from multiple installs), you have to register the game, you have a cd check, you have a DRM, the list goes on. If you think that putting up with restrictions such as these as bowing, then I think everyone on the planet could fit through a sub hatch no problem.

I personally am spending no time just "playing" anyway. I am either helping others with their mods, shaping up my own mods, or testing mods for people. I do that stuff because DRM or not, that is what we need right now and will need for years to come from many people who wish to help. And that, sir, is my opinion.

Even though I don't personally like SH5 I do respect what you are doing.
As far as the bowing goes you need to take a closer look at the planet today for its made up of people fitting through sub hatches.

As for the other posters that have said "bad post and I did not read it". Welcome to UBI world. Now you know what they said about everyone's post at the start of SH5.

I'll set all of your minds at ease as this is my last post on this forum for I'm kind of shocked at the way SH5 has turned this forum around. More people have walked on others more than any other SH series and that's not good.
I will continue to play SH4 as I do like it with some of it's mods but that's another world.

[SteelViking]

Folks, I am kind of angry that Elder-Pirates post was made fun of. That kind of stuff only hurts subsimming as a whole, and it hurts the case of anyone who is actually disagreeing with people who share his opinion.

Only when all opinions are heard, respected, and considered can anyone have true, clear perspective on things.

I know I sound a bit preachy, but if you don't like it, ban me.

[robbo180265]

Folks, I am kind of angry that Elder-Pirates post was made fun of. That kind of stuff only hurts subsimming as a whole, and it hurts the case of anyone who is actually disagreeing with people who share his opinion.

Only when all opinions are heard, respected, and considered can anyone have true, clear perspective on things.

I know I sound a bit preachy, but if you don't like it, ban me.

No - I guess you are right, I was only playing around but the trouble with the written word is that something that is fun to one person may not appear fun to another.

I'd like to apologise for any offence caused to Elder-Pirate and say again that I only meant it in fun - hence the :O: symbol

[Nisgeis]

As for the other posters that have said "bad post and I did not read it". Welcome to UBI world. Now you know what they said about everyone's post at the start of SH5.

I recall someone saying that they didn't like your post, but that post didn't say that your post was bad. Someone else said that they had heard that the post was bad, but didn't infact in of itself say that the post was bad, so really no one said that your post was bad. As to how someone would decide that they didn't like your post without reading it, then that's beyond me - but that is the advice given by some on the forum - if you don't like a post, then don't read it. I'm not entirely clear on how one is meant to decide whether you like a post, before reading it, but then I am not as clever as those that have given the advice - afterall, they have decided that they do not like SH5, without even playing it, so they have a skill that I do not have.

Folks, I am kind of angry that Elder-Pirates post was made fun of. That kind of stuff only hurts subsimming as a whole, and it hurts the case of anyone who is actually disagreeing with people who share his opinion.

Only when all opinions are heard, respected, and considered can anyone have true, clear perspective on things.

I think it's safe to say that all opinions have been heard by now. In no way did Elder-Pirate's post add anything to our font of opinions. Saying that everyone that plays the game in a legal manner was bowing to a false god is a biiiiiit of a stretch...

Who is it here that turns their PC on, checks the router, bows to the false god Ubisoft, clicks on SH5, starts a campaign? No one. That would be utterly stupid. I have to say, just for clarity, that I have never ever bowed in any way shape or form to any god (or God, as the case may be) in order to get a game of SH5 up and running. To tell me that I have done is just utter rubbish. It's still bowing all the same? Er, no it's really not... it's just called playing a game legally.

I'm still failing to see what part of what Elder-Pirate posted was new or changed the landscape of discussion in any way over what has already been posted - and that is part of the problem, the same old tired arguments being trotted out, with a hysterical spin. First we were supporting more of the same thing by buying a game with DRM - now it seems we are worshipping deities and false ones at that. If it weren't for subsim, I wouldn't know all the ridiculous things that I was meant to be doing.

Also, this new insidious posting of something being 'my opinion' and that somehow lending extra weight or rights to it has to be debunked. Just because something is your opinion does not make it right.

You can only be sure that it is right that something is your opinion, not that your opinion is right.

OK, we can't tell you that something is not your opinion, but it can be successfully argued that your opinion is wrong and no matter how you respond that something is your opinion will not make your opinion any more rational or realistic or correct or will in any way assuage arguments that counter your opinion.

EDIT: I mean... seriously? You made be respond to a post and say in exactly what way I was not worshipping a false god - doesn't that stuff hurt subsimming for everyone? Wasn't ignoring it a better option? What's next? Everyone that plays SH5 sacrifices a chicken to Cthulu in order to play? Should we respond to that?

[Kremmen]

Who is it here that turns their PC on, checks the router, bows to the false god Ubisoft, clicks on SH5, starts a campaign? No one.




WHAT??? You mean you don't have to face Ubi HQ,get on your knees and pray.... :oops:
Now they really should have put this in the manual.

[SteelViking]

Nisgeis, you are right on many accounts, and I agree with much of what you said. What he said was not new, and has been said by others in other ways, and what he said was a bit outrageous. That is why I responded to his posts at all, to try and steer him away from such a radical and negative point of view.

When it comes to bowing I think you may have misunderstood what I said about it, all I have tried to show/say about it is that it is not what is really going on. I never said anyone bowed to anything. I made a bit of a hyperbole out of it.

Of course if something is your opinion it does not make it absolutely right. But, if someone has a certain opinion, they believe it is right, and they will act accordingly. All I was asking for, is that everyone's opinion be heard. I don't care if it has been stated before. Do you feel good when you say something and someone says "shut up we already know that?" Besides, I am the one who has been presenting the case that debunks(nice word usage on your part) his opinion, so trust me I know that opinions can easily be wrong. However, I believe that EVERYONE has the right to express those opinions, and that we would do well to give them a fair hearing.

Nisgeis, I have great respect for you. I understand your view point, and I don't want anything I have said to look like a jab at you in any way.

[XLjedi]

No category for me... :06:

I'd buy it even if it's total crap just to support the genre!
But I can't encourage this style of DRM by casting dollar votes at it.

As it stands now, anti-DRM overrides supporting the genre.

Maybe someday I'll get to play a subsim again on a console. :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm not looking for a fight as stated by sailor Steve but again that's his opinion.
The above is my opinion and as yours it is my right.
I didn't mean you.

I'll buy it, good or bad, just to support the genre, but not until the DRM is removed. That said, I believe that it does have the potential to become the best of all of them, and I will buy it when everyone can play it without restrictions.

I thought SteelViking's post was reasonable, and he expressed worry that he would cause offense. You didn't take offense, you politely disagreed. My words were to reassure him that he had done nothing to offend anybody. There are some who do like to pick fights over nothing. I was talking to them.

[JScones]

I agree too - SteelViking hit it right on the head. :yep:


Anyone who takes offence at you comments here is looking for a fight, nothing more. Very well said indeed.
I take offence at you taking offence at me taking offence at SteelViking's comments.

Wait, what am I taking offence at again? Oh, bugger it, carry on.

[SteelViking]

I take offence at you taking offence at me taking offence at SteelViking's comments.

Wait, what am I taking offence at again? Oh, bugger it, carry on.

:haha: Thanks for lightening the mood in this thread.:up:

[609_Avatar]

I take offence at you taking offence at me taking offence at SteelViking's comments.

Wait, what am I taking offence at again? Oh, bugger it, carry on.

Well! I'm offended now as you just insulted my intelligence because I have no clue what the hell you're saying!!! :D

[JScones]

See the trouble you've started now, Sailor Steve. :stare:



:D

[609_Avatar]

See the trouble you've started now, Sailor Steve. :stare:



:D

Yeah! It's all his fault!! ;)

[Sailor Steve]

I take offence at you taking offence at me taking offence at SteelViking's comments.

Wait, what am I taking offence at again? Oh, bugger it, carry on.
I don't blame you for taking offense. You're a very offensive person.

Wait, what?
:rotfl2:

See the trouble you've started now, Sailor Steve. :stare:
Yeah! It's all his fault!! ;)
Then I guess my work here is complete.:D

[Jimbuna]

I don't blame you for taking offense. You're a very offensive person.

Wait, what?
:rotfl2:



Then I guess my work here is complete.:D

Actually it could be said your actually a failure seeing as how you weren't capable of at least getting the thread locked :O:

[Sailor Steve]

Actually it could be said your actually a failure seeing as how you weren't capable of at least getting the thread locked :O:
If I had tried to get it locked and failed, then I would indeed be a failure. But since I haven't tried to get it locked then I must have suceeded at not getting it locked, which means I'm a raving sucess at accomplishing nothing, which is what I set out to do in the first place.

Oh, lord, I'm starting to sound like Balz.:damn:

[robbo180265]

If I had tried to get it locked and failed, then I would indeed be a failure. But since I haven't tried to get it locked then I must have suceeded at not getting it locked, which means I'm a raving sucess at accomplishing nothing, which is what I set out to do in the first place.

Oh, lord, I'm starting to sound like Balz.:damn:

My head hurts:doh:

[SteelViking]

Ummmm........yup, my brain just exploded.:yep:

[Jimbuna]

If I had tried to get it locked and failed, then I would indeed be a failure. But since I haven't tried to get it locked then I must have suceeded at not getting it locked, which means I'm a raving sucess at accomplishing nothing, which is what I set out to do in the first place.

Oh, lord, I'm starting to sound like Balz.:damn:

LOL :D

[Nisgeis]

When it comes to bowing I think you may have misunderstood what I said about it, all I have tried to show/say about it is that it is not what is really going on. I never said anyone bowed to anything. I made a bit of a hyperbole out of it.

I quoted you to provide a starting point to that which was my spring board into the realms of absurdity of rambling. All of my comments after your quote were not directed at you, but inspried by.

There are a lot of posters on subsim and there are a lot of opinions posted by those posters. I certainly welcome all of those opinions, as it allows us to gauge the pulse of the community. What I do object to though is the type of poster who cannot refrain from broad insulting. What do I mean by this? I mean the type that comes in and says 'I don't like SH5 and ALL THOSE THAT BOUGHT IT ARE <DESTROYING SOMETHING>'.

I mean, fair enough that they don't like SH5, but do they really have to accuse everyone that has bought SH5 of <DESTROYING SOMETHING>? I don't think that makes a rational and well thought out argument.

The opposite to this, but something that has seen less 'press' recently is 'Everyone WHO HASN'T BOUGHT SH5 IS <DESTORYING SOMETHING>'

Examples are:

Every fool that bought SH5 is asking for less rights in the future (THOSE THAT BOUGHT SH5 ARE <DESTROYING FREEDOM> (Plus they were fools to purchase it))

and

Don't buy the game and then Ubi won't support it anymore (THOSE THAT HAVEN'T BOUGHT SH5 ARE <DESTROYING THE GENRE>).

I am fairly sure that it is entirely possible to post your own opinion without accusing an entire group of people (e.g. those playing the game) of some hideous crime. OK, so you personally don't like the game, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone that does is in some way evil, or indeed vice versa. So yeah, individual opinions are good, blanket statements of utter rubbishness are blanket statements of utter rubbishness.

What makes it worse, is when the poster in question does not actually state what it is that they do not like about the game. Take this from Elder Pirate:

I do not know whom the so called intelligent person was to stop this poll but in any case this is my vote.

I haven't bought this game and I will probably not buy it.


Those were the words made out by the OP but in my case it will read: I haven't bought this game and I will NEVER buy it!

When will you people stop bowing to this false god UBI?

So, even if the DRM were removed and the game was elevated to 'best subsim ever' status, the Elder Pirate would still not play it. Why? Well, we just don't know. It's perfectly possibly that Ubi may release a no DRM patch in the near future, but still, Elder Pirate would not buy the game, as he would NEVER buy it, so the DRM cannot be the cause of his disguntlement. Ubi may relase a patch that enables every known U-boat type and enables a whole campaign, turning the now DRM free game into everything that Elder Pirate had wished for, but still Elder Pirate would not buy the game - why? Because he said he would NEVER buy the game - for no other reason. So, now we have a situation where a member of the forum has posted that they will not buy SH5, but has posted NO REASONS as to why they will not - we can only conlcude that he doesn't like the name? The only arguments against he gives is that everyone who has bought it is worshipping a false god (and that's kind of recognised as a bad thing) and has said nothing constructive at all.

I've seen the subsim community in action. I've seen people post that they didn't like the game, because of x, y and z and people have responded that x and y could be solved with a mod and z was going to be fixed in a patch that was just round the corner. If Elder Pirate had posted why he did not like SH5, then I'm sure the community would have rallied round and tried to find a fix to help him enjoy the game, but sadly as it turned out, he posted no reason as to why he did not like the game, merely that he would not buy under any circumstances - Probably a customer that Ubisoft would be wise to ignore, if that's his attitude.

Feel free to have an opinion, but if you can't state your opinion without insulting a whole group of other people, then perhaps you are more interesting in getting even (with a group you have perceived has done you wrong) than in discussing the situation?

[Takeda Shingen]

Feel free to have an opinion, but if you can't state your opinion without insulting a whole group of other people, then perhaps you are more interesting in getting even (with a group you have perceived has done you wrong) than in discussing the situation?

Yes. This is all we have every asked on SubSim. We need more like you, Nisgeis. BZ, sir.

[Nisgeis]

Yes. This is all we have every asked on SubSim. We need more like you, Nisgeis. BZ, sir.

BZ?

[robbo180265]

Feel free to have an opinion, but if you can't state your opinion without insulting a whole group of other people, then perhaps you are more interesting in getting even (with a group you have perceived has done you wrong) than in discussing the situation?

Is a damn fine post sir:up:

[Takeda Shingen]

BZ?

Sorry. Bravo Zulu; US Navy speak for 'job well done'.

[Madox58]

@Salior Steev
I treid ot follow your lsat psot.
Butt the speeling was attroachus.
:06:
I am beefuddled.
:haha:

[Sailor Steve]

My head hurts:doh:
Ummmm........yup, my brain just exploded.:yep:
Oh good! Maybe I'm not a failure after all.:D

@Salior Steev
I treid ot follow your lsat psot.
Butt the speeling was attroachus.
:06:
I am beefuddled.
:haha:

Since your couldn't tell me that privately I've decided to change your name.:sunny:

[SteelViking]

:o:rock: Nisgeis, that was an amazing post. Well said on all accounts my friend! I agree with Takeda Shingen, we do need more like you.:salute:

[Méo]

Is a damn fine post sir:up:
:o:rock: Nisgeis, that was an amazing post. Well said on all accounts my friend! I agree with Takeda Shingen, we do need more like you.:salute:


I second that. :rock: