manual targeting/UZO question, and mod request

[schlechter pfennig]

OK, I happen to have enjoyed, for the most part, doing full manual targeting: ship IDing, range, speed, etc. But I've one question and one mod request. I should also mention I run GWX 3.0)

As my surface attacks (at least between '39 - '41/'42-ish) are on the surface, I use the UZO for bearing and range measurement. However, since my attacks are also almost always within 1,000 meters, and frequently as close as 300 -400 meters, I simply can't use the UZO for range measurements, as the magnification is so high I can't bracket waterline and mast height. How do the others here get around that?

My mod request is also the one thing I really dislike about manual targeting, and that's the recognition manual. There's simply too many ships, and it's way too cumbersome to sort back and forth between, for example, Britsih, American and merchant ships, not to mention 'paging' through any individual section.

For example, say I have sighted in the middle of the convoy a British cruiser, and on the edge a British tanker. Trying to toggle back and forth between those two in order to finalize solutions and fire is insane.

What I'd like to see is, instead of ship classes in the recognition manual, is simply mast heights. Perhaps, for instance, every five feet (meters?). If I've already visually (and hopefully, correctly) identified targets, I should know their mast heights. Then it's a simple matter of clicking the book and choosing, for example, '25 feet', then taking a final range/bearing, and firing, then shifting to the next target, clicking the book and choosing that one's range, etc.

Coupled with that would be a way of actually printing out the recognition manual, so one could have a manual that could rapidly be thumbed through, and even dogeared and pre-marked.

Is something like this possible?

[Hitman]

As my surface attacks (at least between '39 - '41/'42-ish) are on the surface, I use the UZO for bearing and range measurement. However, since my attacks are also almost always within 1,000 meters, and frequently as close as 300 -400 meters, I simply can't use the UZO for range measurements, as the magnification is so high I can't bracket waterline and mast height. How do the others here get around that?

The UZO was not designed for range measurements, nor equipped a range fidning device. Distance was simply estimated by naked eye, and in fact if you are shooting that close and with little Gyro Angle (Which you will sure do, since you will be pointing your sub at the target to minimize the silhouette) range is irrelevant for the solution. Use it simply as bearing line transmitter, i.e. as aiming tool and that's all.

What I'd like to see is, instead of ship classes in the recognition manual, is simply mast heights. Perhaps, for instance, every five feet (meters?). If I've already visually (and hopefully, correctly) identified targets, I should know their mast heights. Then it's a simple matter of clicking the book and choosing, for example, '25 feet', then taking a final range/bearing, and firing, then shifting to the next target, clicking the book and choosing that one's range, etc.

Coupled with that would be a way of actually printing out the recognition manual, so one could have a manual that could rapidly be thumbed through, and even dogeared and pre-marked.

Is something like this possible?

I know for sure someone added to the recognition manual a set of fake ships with the only purposes of having a set of mast generic heigths available. I just can't remember who it was right now :hmmm:

RE the printable manuals, there are lots of them around in PDF format, and yes, it's much better to browse quickly through it. In any case, the best way so far of determining target data is to estimate it based on some knowledge about ships. I do it with good success in SH3/4, and rarely I'm much off.

[Tobias99]

OK, I happen to have enjoyed, for the most part, doing full manual targeting: ship IDing, range, speed, etc. But I've one question and one mod request. I should also mention I run GWX 3.0)

As my surface attacks (at least between '39 - '41/'42-ish) are on the surface, I use the UZO for bearing and range measurement. However, since my attacks are also almost always within 1,000 meters, and frequently as close as 300 -400 meters, I simply can't use the UZO for range measurements, as the magnification is so high I can't bracket waterline and mast height. How do the others here get around that?

My mod request is also the one thing I really dislike about manual targeting, and that's the recognition manual. There's simply too many ships, and it's way too cumbersome to sort back and forth between, for example, Britsih, American and merchant ships, not to mention 'paging' through any individual section.

For example, say I have sighted in the middle of the convoy a British cruiser, and on the edge a British tanker. Trying to toggle back and forth between those two in order to finalize solutions and fire is insane.

What I'd like to see is, instead of ship classes in the recognition manual, is simply mast heights. Perhaps, for instance, every five feet (meters?). If I've already visually (and hopefully, correctly) identified targets, I should know their mast heights. Then it's a simple matter of clicking the book and choosing, for example, '25 feet', then taking a final range/bearing, and firing, then shifting to the next target, clicking the book and choosing that one's range, etc.

Coupled with that would be a way of actually printing out the recognition manual, so one could have a manual that could rapidly be thumbed through, and even dogeared and pre-marked.

Is something like this possible?

Sorry for my bad english, but ..when you get a Attack from 1000 m and closer you only need two things to hit the Target.

First: Speed of the Target

You need only to destimate the speed of the convoy the speed of one! ship of the convoy, the convoy is so fast as the slowest ship..
Then you take a look if you seen for example a C2 Freighter, i know this freighter has a length of 150 meters..
Then you observe the ship without Autotargeting, you put the vertical Line of your UZO to the front (bow) the ship and when the freighter cross this vertical line, you click the watch to take the Time how much seconds the ship need to cross the vertical line from bug to tall..
For example 60 seconds..

So, now you doubled the ship lengh (150+150 = 300) and divided to the measure of your stopclock ( 300/60seconds) - Results 5knotes..

The second your need ist the angle of bow, if you close enough you must see what the angle is, my Opinion is, with a attack under 2000m you need no range, no rekognizionmanual, only what your known is length of the popular ships..

Hope you understand this, my english is very bad..

[Hitman]

Ships in SH3/4 are usually of this size:

Small ones: 75-80 metres (Coastal merchants)

Intermediate: 100-120 metres (Coastal tankers, ships based on german Aux Cruiser)

Medium: 140-150 metres (C2, C3, Liberty, Victory, Troop transports, etc.)

Large: 180-200 metres (British Liner/Aux Cruiser, T2 Tanker)

Huge: 220 metres (Big passenger ships)

Merchant ships are the easiest to estimate, count the number of cargo bays (Using the cranes as reference) and multiply by 1250 tons per cargo bay. You get a nice estimate of tonnage, and thus of the dimensions of a ship. Ships more or less hold constant proportions no matter their overall length, so their length increases proportionally to their size.

Small ones: (Coastal merchants)--> 2 small cargo Bays, 2500 tons

Intermediate: (Coastal tankers, ships based on german Aux Cruiser) ---> 3-4 small cargo bays, 3500-5000 tons

Medium: 140-150 metres (C2, C3, Liberty, Victory, Troop transports, etc.) ----> 5-7 cargo Bays, 6250-9000 tons

Large: 180-200 metres (British Liner/Aux Cruiser, T2 Tanker) 10.000 + tons

The golden rule is still: If it looks small, then it's small, if it looks big, then it's big :D

[LGN1]

Maybe this helps:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1611

and this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1201

Cheers, LGN1

[schlechter pfennig]

Maybe this helps:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1611

and this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1201

Cheers, LGN1

Danke!!

[LGN1]

Ships in SH3/4 are usually of this size:

Small ones: 75-80 metres (Coastal merchants)

Intermediate: 100-120 metres (Coastal tankers, ships based on german Aux Cruiser)

Medium: 140-150 metres (C2, C3, Liberty, Victory, Troop transports, etc.)

Large: 180-200 metres (British Liner/Aux Cruiser, T2 Tanker)

Huge: 220 metres (Big passenger ships)

Merchant ships are the easiest to estimate, count the number of cargo bays (Using the cranes as reference) and multiply by 1250 tons per cargo bay. You get a nice estimate of tonnage, and thus of the dimensions of a ship. Ships more or less hold constant proportions no matter their overall length, so their length increases proportionally to their size.

Small ones: (Coastal merchants)--> 2 small cargo Bays, 2500 tons

Intermediate: (Coastal tankers, ships based on german Aux Cruiser) ---> 3-4 small cargo bays, 3500-5000 tons

Medium: 140-150 metres (C2, C3, Liberty, Victory, Troop transports, etc.) ----> 5-7 cargo Bays, 6250-9000 tons

Large: 180-200 metres (British Liner/Aux Cruiser, T2 Tanker) 10.000 + tons

The golden rule is still: If it looks small, then it's small, if it looks big, then it's big :D

Hi,

I looked again at some BRT values in GWX and Iambecomelife's MFM and some values look really strange. Some ships have the same length, draft,... but their BRT values differ by 6000 BRT :o

I wonder how much BRT could differ between ships if the external dimensions were the same :06:

Hitman, do you have some knowledge about this? I think some values should be corrected so that it's more consistent :hmmm:

Cheers, LGN1

[Hitman]

No idea, may be a glitch ... I know there were loaded and unloaded ships with corresponding lower waterline to represent that, etc. but the tonnage sunk as measured by BDU was the empty one, i.e. the nominal tonnage of the ship (Of course a loaded ship was a much worthier prey, but BDU went for a global tonnage war as first priority)