[wip] british torpedoes mark VIII and VIII**

[keltos01]

Ship Class Used On All Submarines from the "O" Class on and MTBs
Date Of Design About 1925
Date In Service 1927
Weight 3,452 lbs. (1,566 kg) Overall Length 21 ft 7 in (6.579 m) Negative Buoyancy 804 lbs. (365 kg)

Explosive Charge

Mark VIII
750 lbs. (340 kg) TNT Mark VIII**

Originally: 722 lbs. (327 kg) TNT

Later: 805 lbs. (365 kg) Torpex

Range / Speed Mark VIII
5,000 yards (4,570 m) / 40 knots Mark VIII**
5,000 yards (4,570 m) / 45.5 knots
7,000 yards (6,400 m) / 41 knots

Power Burner-cycle, 322 hp @ 45 knots Notes: The Mark VIII was the first burner-cycle torpedo in service. The principal World War II version was the Mark VIII** and this torpedo was used far more than any other British torpedo during the war. 3,732 were fired by September 1944, 56.4% of the total. This torpedo was still in use in British ships as late as 1983 and is probably still used today in other navies.http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_WWII.htm


I need intel on how they set the giros on the british torpedoes if any ?

it seems they did , then I shouldn't set the turn angle on the .sim to 0

but maybe less than the US's 135 degrees ?

I am trying 20 degrees for now..

keltos

mark VIII torp mod 135 angle :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/t2timde1ow3/v_2[1].0_British_mark_VIII_1d.rar

mark VIII torp mod 0 angle :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/y5mzzmt2kmz/British mark VIII and VIII.7z

[virtualpender]

This will be a great mod when fully released. Several Fremantle-based US boats put to sea with British Mk VIII torpedos during the torpedo shortages of 1942 and 1943. There's a brief mention of the challenges of using these fish in American tubes in the USN Torpedo Tube manual:

2. TORPEDOES (BRITISH) Certain British torpedoes are of suitable length for firing from the tubes described in this pamphlet by using the special guide stud, although none of the operating or setting mechanisms on the tube will line up properly with the torpedo. The "air lever," which corresponds with the starting lever on USN torpedoes, is farther forward, and is to port of the torpedo center line instead of to starboard. Furthermore, as the air lever swings to the rear to start the torpedo, its tip rises above the 21.125 inches inside diameter of the tube. Hence, should it be found necessary to attempt to use these British torpedoes, it will be necessary to improvise means, such as a lanyard, for starting the torpedo, also to cut off the tip of the air lever so that it will not dig into the wall of the tube when the lanyard is pulled.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/tubes/chap11.htm#11A2

[keltos01]

This mod replaces the US mk10 and mk16 so as to have the two british torpedoes.

I used a mix of british and US torpedoes for my last patrol aboard the Class T. do you know if the british subs used the US torpedoes too ?

keltos

[virtualpender]

Sorry, I don't have any info on US torpedos used on British boats.

Very much looking forward to this!

[keltos01]

Sorry, I don't have any info on US torpedos used on British boats.

Very much looking forward to this!

it is designed for the Class T submarine, check the Truant thread for Ju_88's new T Class model, a sweeeeeet thing !!!!

the mod already uses a version of the Mark VIII and VIII** torpedoes, but they still turn 135 degrees unlike RL ones.

I need more intel on how much they could turn if at all, I know british skippers used to "aim the boat" but I lack intel

keltos

[virtualpender]

Would it be possible to release a version that could be used by US boats? Maybe just one version to replace the ahistorical Mk 16?

[keltos01]

done a while ago :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zzqmtqkhojm/US MK 14 II - IJN - British mark VIII.rar

try and report

keltos

[virtualpender]

Great - thanks, Keltos! Will load up tonight and let you know.

Thanks.

[keltos01]

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4364/tmod1.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/tmod1.jpg/)

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4153/torpedow.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/torpedow.jpg/)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7031/torpedo3.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/torpedo3.jpg/)

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2391/torpedo4.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/torpedo4.jpg/)


http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7454/tdc.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/tdc.jpg/)


http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6804/tdc2.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/tdc2.jpg/)

this means we should really remove the TDC altogether !


Guess I'll need to make one more torpedo ! the mark IV :

21 inch Mark IV

21 inch Mark IV Type torpedo
Place of origin United Kingdom
Service history In service c. 1916-
Production history Designed c. 1912

Specifications Weight 3,206 lb (1,454 kg) Length 22 ft 7.5 in (6.896 m) Diameter 21 inch (553 mm)

Warhead TNT Warhead weight 515 lb (234 kg) Engine Burner cycle

Operational range 8,000 - 13,500 yards
Speed 25 - 35 knots

From 1912, used by destroyers and other surface ships and was an important weapon in the first World War. In the Second World War they were carried on HMS Hood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood).

[Hitman]

this means we should really remove the TDC altogether !

Not altogether, the fruit machine had two important functions:

1) By generating a continuous position of the target (Like the US position keeper) it allowed to check if estimates were correct or not. If the target appeared on the expected bearing, you knew your solution was OK

2) It showed the lead angle, i.e. how much further from the target you had to aim in order to get a hit.

Locking the torpedoes to zero GA is enough, in my opinion.

[keltos01]

Not altogether, the fruit machine had two important functions:

1) By generating a continuous position of the target (Like the US position keeper) it allowed to check if estimates were correct or not. If the target appeared on the expected bearing, you knew your solution was OK

2) It showed the lead angle, i.e. how much further from the target you had to aim in order to get a hit.

Locking the torpedoes to zero GA is enough, in my opinion.

got mixed up I meant the TBT since they didn't have one.

as for the torpedoes I am still looking for intel as to how much they could set the gyro to, I know the later mark III computer could go as far as 70 degrees, still looking up the mark I computer..

I plan on replacing the mk23 with the Mark IV british torpedo too to be available at the start of the war.

keltos

[Hitman]

Hmmm but they had a rudimentary sight with bearing azimuth, so I think we should keep it. Otherwise you also would not be able to shoot when surfaced, unless from the periscope. :hmmm:

[keltos01]

Hmmm but they had a rudimentary sight with bearing azimuth, so I think we should keep it. Otherwise you also would not be able to shoot when surfaced, unless from the periscope. :hmmm:

the TBT causes CTDs with our 11 tubes, strangely that doesn't happen with the periscope ??? :damn:

keltos

[keltos01]

I am trying to add one more torpedo to the torpedoes available without having to "replace" an existing one.

I cloned one in the .dat gave it a new id, linked to a new one in both .sim and .zon

I added one in ammunition and localization

now I have to add it to the weapons and the sub and see what gives

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4933/torpbri.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/torpbri.jpg/)

the new type shows in the torpedo loadout, that's a start !
this would be much better if it worked

keltos

[keltos01]

localization :

Mark 23 Torpedo=Mark 23 Torpedo
Mk23TorpInfo=Speed: <b>35 / 25 kt</b>|Range: <b>13,500 m / 8,000 m</b>|Propulsion: <b>Steam</b>|Explosive charge: <b> 515 lbs. (234 kg) TNT</b>
Mk23TorpNotes= Mark 23 -IV Due to shortage of mark VIII torpedoes these were available to submarines at the start of the war. From 1912, used by destroyers and other surface ships and was an important weapon in the first World War. In the Second World War they were carried on HMS Hood.

Mark 27 Cutie Torpedo=Mark 27 Cutie Torpedo
Mk27TorpInfo=Speed: <b>12 kt</b>|Range: <b>4,570 m</b>|Propulsion: <b>Electric</b>|Explosive charge: <b> 95 lbs. (43 kg) Torpex</b>
Mk27TorpNotes= A variation of the airborne Mark 24 adapted for submarine use. The Mark 24 Mine was also known as as "Fido." A very small anti-submarine homing torpedo. Homing was by four crystal hydrophones around the body with simple steering towards the noise. It was a passive homer intended for self-defense against ASW escorts. Used only against the Japanese. A larger version, the Mark 27 Mod 4, was capable of 15.9 knots and was in service from 1946 to 1960.Torpedo Mk 27 Mod 0, developed by Bell Telephone Laboratories, was an acoustically-controlled, submarine-launched, anti-escort ship weapon. Used during the second World War, the torpedo had a single propeller driven by an electric motor. This torpedo was essentially a Mine Mk 24 modified for submarine launching in a 21-inch submerged torpedo tube by the addition of wood guides on the outer cylinder shell. Approximately 1000 units were produced by the Western Electric Corp., Kearney, N.J

Mark IV Torpedo=Mark IV Torpedo
MkIVTorpInfo=Speed: <b>35 / 25 kt</b>|Range: <b>13,500 m / 8,000 m</b>|Propulsion: <b>Steam</b>|Explosive charge: <b> 515 lbs. (234 kg) TNT</b>
MkIVTorpNotes= new mark IV - Due to shortage of mark VIII torpedoes these were available to submarines at the start of the war. From 1912, used by destroyers and other surface ships and was an important weapon in the first World War. In the Second World War they were carried on HMS Hood.




weapons.upc :

[Weapon 8]
ID= TorpedoTube21inUS
NameDisplayable= 53cm Torpedo Tube
FunctionalType= WpTorpedoTube
WeaponInterval= 1930-12-01, 1946-12-01
WeaponSlotType= TorpedoTube
AmmoTypesAccepted= Mk14Torpedo, Mk16Torpedo, Mk18Torpedo, Mk23Torpedo, Mk27Torpedo, Mk10Torpedo, MkIVTorpedo, MkVIIITorpedo
AmmoTypeLoaded= NULL
AmmoMagazineRemaining= 0 ;Not used
AmmoMagazineSize= 1
LeadersSlots=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots= 0
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Jam, 0, 0, NULL, 1, 0.3, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0, 1, 0, 0.5, 1, Chamber Explosion, 50, 5, NULL, 1, 2, 10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun


http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4933/torpbri.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/torpbri.jpg/)

description is linked to the new type (mark IV)

start a mission...

CTD..


keltos

[keltos01]

There were some common ids on different nodes :doh:

fixed that,

fixed the zon file too (all the calculations are in an excell file with the mod, they are based on the stock hit points of the mk 14 used as baseline)

mk VIII TNT
min 96,1
max 144,2
AP 80,1
max turn angle = 35

mk VIII TorPex
min 225
max 337,5
Ap 187,5
max turn angle = 35

mk IV
min 107,5
max 161,4
AP 89,6
max turn angle = 10

the max turn angle should really be set to 0 but since I know they could turn them up to 70 degrees at the end of the war with the mark 3 computer, and they had mark 1 computer during the war, I set them to a low value but one that doesn't require to turn the boat all the way towards the heading the torpedo should take to hit the target.

keltos

[keltos01]

an afterthought : when I made the torpedo mark IV I set in the ammunition.upc :

[Ammunition 19]
ID=MkIVTorpedo
NameDisplayable= Mark IV
Type= AmmoTorpedo
Subtype=Mk10TorpUS maybe this should become Subtype=MKIVTorpUS too ? or is it one of those "hardcoded" things ? that's why I didn't change it yet
AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1925-06-01, 1946-12-31, 0
Volume= 1
PackSize=1
Info=MkIVTorpInfo
Notes=MkIVTorpNotes

tubes :

[Weapon 8]
ID= TorpedoTube21inUS
NameDisplayable= 53cm Torpedo Tube
FunctionalType= WpTorpedoTube
WeaponInterval= 1930-12-01, 1946-12-01
WeaponSlotType= TorpedoTube
AmmoTypesAccepted= Mk14Torpedo, Mk16Torpedo, Mk18Torpedo, Mk23Torpedo, Mk27Torpedo, Mk10Torpedo, MkIVTorpedo
AmmoTypeLoaded= NULL
AmmoMagazineRemaining= 0 ;Not used
AmmoMagazineSize= 1
LeadersSlots=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots= 0
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Jam, 0, 0, NULL, 1, 0.3, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0, 1, 0, 0.5, 1, Chamber Explosion, 50, 5, NULL, 1, 2, 10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun

[keltos01]

the new mark IV I added causes CTDs...

guess we really can't add torpedoes to the number of torpedoes available ingame :nope:

keltos

[keltos01]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6606/dddpec.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/dddpec.jpg/)

There were some common ids on different nodes :doh:

fixed that,

fixed the zon file too (all the calculations are in an excell file with the mod, they are based on the stock hit points of the mk 14 used as baseline)

mk VIII TNT
min 96,1
max 144,2
AP 80,1
max turn angle = 35

mk VIII TorPex
min 225
max 337,5
Ap 187,5
max turn angle = 35

mk 14 US torpex
min 180
max 270
AP 150
max turn angle = 135

This mod gives you both british torpedoes mark VIII TNT and mark VIII** Torpex and the US mk14 II torpex torpedoes that was missing from the game, while retaining the original mk14 too, it'll be available mid-1942.

d/l :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nyrimlwrzmr/British (http://www.mediafire.com/file/nyrimlwrzmr/British) mark VIII and VIII US mk14 torpex.7z

if you want the british torpedoes with 15 degrees gyro angle instead of 0 :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tnzdalaxe2m/Torpedoes_US.sim

slip it in the library folder of mod

test and report please

keltos

[rditto48801]

Wait, are you saying you have managed to not only add new torpedoes, but to also get them working in game?

Was the previous problem you had due to the early part of the ammo file under the heading Torpedoes?

; Torpedoes
;
; Subtype=Mk10TorpUS
; Subtype=Mk14TorpUS
; Subtype=Mk16TorpUS
; Subtype=Mk18TorpUS
; Subtype=Mk23TorpUS
; Subtype=Mk27TorpUSIs it basically possible to now make new Subtypes for torpedoes?

For example, a new torpedo with something like Subtype=NewTorpUS, and the early part of the file have the same thing added at the bottom of the list of the other Torpedoes Subtypes, and as a torpedo that a torpedo tube will accept?

My modding experience is limited (and almost non-existent with SH4), but the subject does make me curious, so I feel the need to ask.

[keltos01]

[QUOTE=rditto48801;1379055]Wait, are you saying you have managed to not only add new torpedoes, but to also get them working in game?
they are transformed stock types, i couldn't add more torpedoes yet.. they cause CTD, we guess the number of available torps is hard coded.

Was the previous problem you had due to the early part of the ammo file under the heading Torpedoes?

Is it basically possible to now make new Subtypes for torpedoes?
No, but you can always try, nothing better than a new set of eyes !

For example, a new torpedo with something like Subtype=NewTorpUS, and the early part of the file have the same thing added at the bottom of the list of the other Torpedoes Subtypes, and as a torpedo that a torpedo tube will accept?
tried that, didnt work
I added a new torpedo in the .dat with new ids (a clone of anexisting type re ided)
added it to the .sim and linked to the .dat
added it to the .zon and linked to the .dat

added it to weapons.upc, localization.upc, ammunition.upc

to no avail : so far they show up in the loading screen and CTD when you try to play :nope:
My modding experience is limited (and almost non-existent with SH4), but the subject does make me curious, so I feel the need to ask.
no problem !

you can only modify existing torpedoes to fit your needs (.sim, .zon even a new 3d model like the Kaiten, but I couldn't create a new one, nor an 11th tube yet...)

keltos

[keltos01]

bump

[keltos01]

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4139/wtbryorktorpedohoist.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/wtbryorktorpedohoist.jpg/)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_PreWWII.htm

As they were used exensivelly I think I might just add the mark IV torpedo to the mod,

it will of course replace one of the existing ones :

Date Of Design About 1912
Date In Service About 1916
Explosive Charge 515 lbs. (234 kg) TNT
World War II Submarines, only:
6,000 yards (5,500 m) / 40 knots
9,500 yards (8,700 m) / 35 knots


http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_PreWWII.htm



keltos