[REQ] 5"/51 caliber deck gun model

[Ducimus]

I was wondering if there was some talented 3d modeler who wouldn't mind making a 5"/51 caliber deck gun model. My thought is perhaps one could start with a 4"/50 deck gun model, as a base, and adjust it's appearance to look like a 5/51.

Both RFB and TMO would benefit from this model, as both mods will eventually have this deck gun in game. TMO is currently using a 4/50 model as a substitute, im assuming RFB is using the same.

These guns were mounted on Tambor and Gar class submarines starting in july 1942 if source info is correct.

Some pictures:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819801.jpg
Tambor (SS-198) was fitted with a 5 in/51 gun. She is shown off San Francisco after a refit, 6 December 1943.
from: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08198.htm

This looks like the same on the USS gar
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0820609.jpg
from: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08206.htm

More pictures:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-51_mk7_pics.htm

[keltos01]

Well the Narwhal's gun isn't far from the gun you're aiming for is it ?

I could give that one to you no problem..

keltos

[Ducimus]

Well the Narwhal's gun isn't far from the gun you're aiming for is it ?

I could give that one to you no problem..

keltos

Since that's part of a subsim bonus download, i thought that would be completely out of the realm of possibilities. Is it?

[keltos01]

ooops.. :oops:

right..

but give me picture of the gun from all angles and a rough size of it and I could make one for you, this is how I did the Narwhal gun.

keltos

[Ducimus]

I'll dig around and find as many pics as i can, but ya know this is one of those hard to find foot notes in a overlooked theater about a branch of the military named after its nature to not disclose info to begin with! :haha:

Hopefully this is the right version of the gun.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57t.htm

[Ducimus]

I think there might be a picture of a tambor or gar with one of the guns towards the bottom of this PDF file.
http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829294.pdf

[Ducimus]

http://www.usscolorado.org/images/gun-mohai.jpg
http://www.usscolorado.org/images/gun-mohai.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/3648802681/in/set-72157618470702547/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/3649608308/in/set-72157618470702547/

EDIT:
http://www.nps.gov/archive/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003119-00/images/fig8.jpg
a 5-inch/51 seacoast gun of Battery A, 1st Defense Battalion, rests at the Marine Corps Base, San Diego, on 21 October 1940, prior to its being deployed

EDIT:
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/U/s/US_5_51_gun.htm

[Sledgehammer427]

:hmmm:

Interesting.
Using a 5"-er in early boats would certainly make things more interesting.

I might just take a whack at the 3d model....I still got a couple of hours before bed :yeah:

EDIT:
I've done some fiddiling around with the 4" gun, editing it's size, bore, seat removal, I modified the handle that opens the breech, other little details, I'll upload a pic here in a couple

ANOTHER EDIT:
Kinda what ur looking for Ducimus?
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer118.jpg
comparison shot next to a 4" barrel and body (4" is selected in red)
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer119.jpg

[keltos01]

I guess he wants an exact copy of the 5.1 inch gun for SH4. or as close an approximation as you can 3d SH427.

nice job on the gun btw :up: but watch out for the bore diameter !

keltos

[keltos01]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4646/51inchdg.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/i/51inchdg.jpg/)
http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829294.pdf

looks awfully like a 5.5 inch IJN DG...

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5453/51inchdg2.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/51inchdg2.jpg/)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-51_mk7_pics.htm

Congressional delegation inspecting 5"/51 (12.7 cm) Mark 9 gun aboard Submarine V-1 (later USS Barracuda SS-163) in December 1924
National Photo Company Collection
Library of Congress Photograph ID LC-DIG-npcc-12734

[Ducimus]

I guess he wants an exact copy of the 5.1 inch gun for SH4. or as close an approximation as you can 3d SH427.

nice job on the gun btw :up: but watch out for the bore diameter !

keltos

Close approximation is good enough for me. I don't expect every rivet and weld in its place, just something that could pass for a 5/51 to the laymans eye. Thanks for the efforts thus far, it looks pretty good. Althoguh i dont know if you want to remove the seats or not. We are limited to existing animation sequences.

[Sledgehammer427]

I can re-do it to have the seats on it, no problem :D

[Ducimus]

Unless of course you can think of what animation sequences to use for the deck gun crew. :salute: But all the existing deck guns have the two guys operating the gears as the gun goes around. My thought was that would have to continue to be used to look asthetically pleasing. But i could be completely shortsighted with this.

[Sledgehammer427]

if I had a mo-cap studio and the knowledge to use one, believe you me, SHIV would have a lot more animations!

[Madox58]

There's a ton of motion capture files on the 'Net and the instructions to import them to various 3D software programs.
Here's one site:
http://sites.google.com/a/cgspeed.com/cgspeed/motion-capture

Then you can edit those to create new animations.
It's pretty nifty stuff.
Mostly cut and paste work.

[Ducimus]

Sledgehammer427,

Are you still working on this? If so, how's it coming?

[Sledgehammer427]

it's gotta be re-AO mapped and that's not something I can do, my skills are limited here.
I should probably hand it over to Keltos, because he ALWAYS fixes my mistakes :oops:

[Ducimus]

LOL, well you certainly have more skill then I in this department. :O:

[Jan Kyster]

Found a couple of pics of the gun...

Sketch:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/5in-sktch.jpg

Manned and in action on Silversides (SS-236):
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/5in-236.jpg

Distinguished guests on board Balao (SS-285):
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/5in-285.jpg

Some idea of angle of elevation that could be achieved... Sea Cat (SS-399):
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/5in-399.jpg

Source:
Gato-Class Submarines In Action
Squadron Signal Publication Warships Number 28
ISBN-10 0-89747-509-7

[Ducimus]

Nice pics! Wrong caliber. :O:

[BillBam]

Just curious...what are the two measurements. I assume one is the bore size but what is the other and which is which?

[razark]

Just curious...what are the two measurements. I assume one is the bore size but what is the other and which is which?

If I remember correctly, the 5 inch is the bore size, and the length of the barrel is 51 times the bore size.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%22/51_caliber_gun

[keltos01]

What an Ugly Gun !!!!

sorry :oops: had to say it !

keltos

[Jan Kyster]

Nice pics! Wrong caliber. :O::har:

My attention span apparently didn't last any longer than the 5 inch! http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/doh.gif

Well, I'll let them hang there. See it as an infomercial for the Squadron Signal book.

[Sledgehammer427]

What an Ugly Gun !!!!

sorry :oops: had to say it !


aye, it is rather ugly...but,

to a sampan, that would be the most terrifying thing in the world.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Nice pics! Wrong caliber. :O:


Exactly. The 5"/25 cal was mounted on Tambors and Gatos (I'm lumping Balaos and Tenchs into that category) towards the end of the war.

What they're referring to is the 5" guns mounted on the Narwhal and Nautilus which where different. I'd assume the Argonaut as well, though given it was a training boat it's hard to say without looking it up.

[Sledgehammer427]

Nautilus, Narwhal and Argonaut (speaking of which, Argonaut was a front line boat) all fielded 6" guns, these 5"/51 were used on pre-gatos if memory serves me right. a little more firepower for the masses who would like to get rid of the plucky 3"er

[Ducimus]

They were mounted on Tambor/Gars, and they were the only boats to be so fitted is my understanding. (other then the older boats the guns were removed from) The gun wasn't very successful, due to the barrel length and subs being a poor gunnery platform. The snub nose 5"/25 performed much better off a sub.

If you study pictures of some tambor/gars, you'll notice the area surrounding the gunmount was expanded to accomidate the 5"/51's. Its a very unique feature.

[LukeFF]

Exactly. The 5"/25 cal was mounted on Tambors and Gatos (I'm lumping Balaos and Tenchs into that category) towards the end of the war.

Two boats of the Sargo class also received them in late 1944.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

They were mounted on Tambor/Gars, and they were the only boats to be so fitted is my understanding. (other then the older boats the guns were removed from) The gun wasn't very successful, due to the barrel length and subs being a poor gunnery platform. The snub nose 5"/25 performed much better off a sub.

If you study pictures of some tambor/gars, you'll notice the area surrounding the gunmount was expanded to accomidate the 5"/51's. Its a very unique feature.


Wasn't aware of that. On the otherhand, it makes sense. I finally found one of my old sub books that goes into the large variety of refits. Unfortunately it doesn't go into them all since the book concentrates more on describing the evolution of the subs from the beginning of the war up till around 1946 or so, rather than going into exhaustive detail on everything.

And LukeFF, didn't know about the Sargos. Seems like a lot of material glosses them over in favor of the Tambors, Gars and Gatos due to the notoriety of some of the boats in each class.

[LukeFF]

And LukeFF, didn't know about the Sargos. Seems like a lot of material glosses them over in favor of the Tambors, Gars and Gatos due to the notoriety of some of the boats in each class.

Yep, and one Sargo class boat also received a 40mm AA gun, something one just wouldn't know about unless they were looking for that type of info.

Spearfish with her 5"/25 deck gun:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819019.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819015.jpg

[Ducimus]

Luke you love the sargo's don't ya? I just remembered you were looking up external stores for them too. :O:

[LukeFF]

Luke you love the sargo's don't ya? I just remembered you were looking up external stores for them too. :O:

Yep! I've always had a thing for the lesser-known submarines of the fleet. :yep:

[Ducimus]

I've always been partial to Gar's myself, no idea why. :O: