I am completly stuck!

[Hans Witteman]

Hi lady's and gentleman's

I badly need help i get this error message from Sh3 after saving : ``the node is referencing a material but the index of the material is higher than the index of the node``.

The texture look fine in sh3 but when i load in game some part are using the hull map that is not even in the object turm IIA root node, i verify all my node tree delete everything starting from scratch again with no success:damn:

And again i still have problem importing additional uvw channel i try both method with 3ds max and as obj.uvw, I can see the new channel like channel 1, channel 2 and channel 3 but if i click in the map preview on each channel only the channel 1 is showing in all of them.

And sorry to ask this again here but i have start a thread asking very few simple questions to help me out and no one answer at all so i try my luck again :

# question 1 : Where is the death screen picture, the one that show up when you get kill in campaign?

# question 2 : How to remove crew from conning tower to show the detail in pictures?

# question 3 : Is it possible to move the crew up&down position on conning tower?

# Bonus Easter question http://174.123.69.202/%7Esubsimc/radioroom/images/smilies/36.gif : Where can we tweak the night sky setting i saw the day sky in Misc but nothing for the starry night sky?

Thank to all in advanced

Regards Hans

[verte]

I think no-one answered before, because those are hard questions. The starry night sky is afaik hardcoded and cannot be changed :(

[Hans Witteman]

I think no-one answered before, because those are hard questions. The starry night sky is afaik hardcoded and cannot be changed :(


At least you have answering one thank Verte but i saw a post on a french silent hunter forum that say a guy there was able to apply a texture of a starry night sky on top of the hardcoded one but the guy never respond to any emails unfortunately.

Regards, Hans

[flakmonkey]

put the material node at the top of the tree, or at least higher up than the model that is using it. +the stars in the night sky are geometry rather than a texture and if i remember right theyre in scene.dat

[Jankowski]

hello hans!

i hope you get these problems sorted out becuase this is one of the mods i want most! iia is oneof my favorite u-boats, and i hope you also do the iid because it is similar to the iia.

good luck!

[Hans Witteman]

Thank Flakmonkey and the others, i finally manage to make it work after 2 days of struggling with sh3 and i discover a major corruption bug when importing&exporting in sh3, it seem that after multiples import sh3 get confused about index vertices from uvw layout the reason I'm saying that is because if i just hit undo in sh3 and reloading earlier saves from max it work just fine.

So for now on my best friend in sh3 will be the undo button!

By the way since i start playing with sh3 i learn a lot so i am going to start a tech thread toexplain to new modders what are the limit in texturing regarding UVW layout modification, there are a lot of tricky part that need to be done in max to make sure the obj export without messing the index vertices i know this is tech stuff and some will be confused about that so when i am done hopefully in the next 2 days i will start the thread explaining in detail.

By the way Flakmonkey do you know where is the death screen picture location, the one that show up with the summary when you get sunk in campaign, and i saw in your lightmap release that you were able to remove crew from conning tower is possible for you to shortly explain how you did it i don't need any step by step just general info.

I know i ask a lot of questions but believe me i will help back a lot after because i am not afraid of sharing my knowledge to make new modders life easier.

It is the second time in the week that i have redone the unwrapping completely on conning tower ext&int i hope not to redo cause my hands hurt lol

Regards Hans,

[Madox58]

The Death Screen you see is a Camera Path in the EventCamera.dat
There are numerous events paths in that dat.
S3D should allow you to move/adjust them.

[Hans Witteman]

The Death Screen you see is a Camera Path in the EventCamera.dat
There are numerous events paths in that dat.
S3D should allow you to move/adjust them.


Thank a lot Privateer, i was wandering about this one and the reason is that i want to know if i could link a dramatic 3d cinematic i mean triggering a small custom movie instead of having that non emotional picture. If it not possible i would at least put more dramatic picture to replace it.

Everything went fine yesterday thank to Flakmonkey moving the node upward in the tree did the trick the only thing that is left to do to finally release first picture is to load my lightmap and i have an animation i want to add to the boat but i dont know how so far lets say i have an animated part of the boat and i want to have that part moving with the sub plus being able to activate/deactivate it via keyboard shortcut?

My biggest issue so far is a strange bug that preventing me to add additional map channel, i see them in import windows, i see them in sh3 but clicking on them show only channel 1 so for my lightmap i need to fix that before release.

Regards Hans,

[Hans Witteman]

hello hans!

i hope you get these problems sorted out becuase this is one of the mods i want most! iia is oneof my favorite u-boats, and i hope you also do the iid because it is similar to the iia.

good luck!


Hi Jankowski thank for supporting my work, you could rest assure that it will be release very soon i am almost done and i think you will be please with the new total historical conversion of the early type IIA.

It seem long because it is my first time playing with sh3 and we always have a learning curve prior to gaining speed and understanding of the tool but after i'm done with the first one it will be a lot faster for the others i plan to do.

Regards Hans,

[KL-alfman]

that's good news!
thx for your effort, I look forward to the outcome of your work!! :up:

[Hans Witteman]

put the material node at the top of the tree, or at least higher up than the model that is using it. +the stars in the night sky are geometry rather than a texture and if i remember right theyre in scene.dat

Thank again Flakmonkey i hope you will look at my WIP video until you see the credits roll because you will be the first in the list for your outstanding support.

The step i made when exporting my obj is as follow :

1. Apply a uvw unwrap on

2.specified the channel ex; 1,2,3 etc

3.Export with -uv1,-uv2 etc for each individual map channels

4. Import in sh3 as obj instead of 3ds max uvw

5.Every additional map channels is visible in sh3 import window

6. I see each new map channels in sh3 but what bug me up is that clicking on each one of them always show the first map channel?

I will try uninstalling and reinstalling sh3 today to see if it fix the issue.

I am very close to release this video maybe today if i can fix my issues with the lightmap map channel and the animation i want to add to the sub lets say i want to add an animation that follow the sub do i have to link it as a child somewhere in sh3?

And I want that animation to be trigger on will by the user via keyboard shortcuts?

Best regards Hans,

[verte]

i was wandering about this one and the reason is that i want to know if i could link a dramatic 3d cinematic i mean triggering a small custom movie instead of having that non emotional picture. If it not possible i would at least put more dramatic picture to replace it.
Yes, it would be great, its one of the things that is missing in SH3 - a good depiction of uboot death, not this empty screen.

[Hans Witteman]

Yes, it would be great, its one of the things that is missing in SH3 - a good depiction of uboot death, not this empty screen.

Hi Verte,

Yes i always hate that screen either that why i want to make if possible a small dramatic cinematic showing the horror of war depicting the dead crew in flooded control room with camera focus on on 1 men hand holding tight to a picture of his girlfriend. I know it is quite an intense scene but war was not pretty and i want the player to feel that intensity.

If i cannot manage to integrate a cinematic at least just a picture of the 3d rendered scene will do it to.

One step at the time i will try my best to improve what i think will make a very intense and dramatic improvement on the original version.

I am like a squid lol right now i'm working on almost 5 different mods one major and minor one but with nice addition to immersion like the loading screen i have model my self in 3d and put myself at the periscope like that famous close shot picture of Erich Topp and instead of having the red loading bar i have put a Papenburg gauge with a blue loading bar.

Other one is instead of having red crew members to represent dead crew i have render human body wrap in the German flag look more appropriate to honor the dead crew members loyal services.

And also many other misc interface screen i am only beginning :rock:

When my mods will be released everybody will be allowed full access to all my work without any restrictions so they can freely integrated to their own mod the only thing i ask is to be kind enough to put me in the credits.

But right now i am swearing like i never did in my entire life because everything was going perfectly well all 3d additions import in game flawlessly and the new uvw layout work perfectly textures are simply gorgeous but i just cannot yet pin point the problem with my lightmap they show in sh3 but in game i see nothing the complete conning tower is totally invisible.

Make me feel angry cause i am so close to release the first video in game maybe if lucky tonight if not then when i figured out the nasty problem.

If it was not that the geometry of my sub is completely redone i would have ask permission to Flakmonkey to integrated is beautiful lightmap to my mod but geometry has to be identical for lightmap to work.

Wish me luck today and maybe tonight i will upload a video in a new WIP thread title : U-BOOTTYPIIA_HAHD.

Thank to all for your fantastic support without some of you i would have quit!

Regards Hans,

[verte]

i would have quit!
Don't even think about it, such positively possessed and perfectionist persons are the best :up: I also hope, that other great modders will help you.

[nemo7]

Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno Hans. Don't give up. LOS!:salute:

[Madox58]

The Event Camera stuff is triggered by StateMachine controllers.
The Death Event is triggered in this file:
GraphHitPointsAll.dat
Number 11, if I recall right, is Death.

That sends you to the screen you see.
It's nothing more then a Camera Path using BezierWaypoints
and Target Controllers to fly past the Sub as rendered in Game.

I would suspect that there is no way to have this point at a seperate
animation/image as it may be a Hard Coded instruction.

As i said, I Suspect.
That does not mean it can not be done.
It just means I can not tell you how to change it.
As I never looked that close at this issue.

[Hans Witteman]

Thank a lot privateer every bit of help is deeply appreciated i will look at that later since now i am struggling with sh3 who playing trick on me at one moment i open sh3 and it behave differently each time i reopen it i am very confused right now since each time i import my model sh3 it does a different think. I think the image and video will have to wait until i managed to make my lightmap work there is so much confusion around the import/export and uvw channels that i swear i will write a complete, concise,clear and definitive tutorial so nobody have to fight with the software like i am doing right now.

I truly suspect file corruption in import process but i cannot pin point at what stage it occurring...

I even download Flakmonkey TypIIA lightmap to compare files and mine are identical to is tree nodes, so right now i am turning around to understand what is wrong.

And i think that in the thread of the ambient occlusion tutorial there is part of my answer but i think Skwasjer is not available to answer anymore.

The thread say :
Does the 2nd map channel in S3D show you the correct uv map in the preview window? It sounds like the uv coordinates aren't right. If they are right though, then I'd like to have a look at the .dat.

[QUOTE]Oh, and you may want to check if SelfOccEnable is true in the UnifiedRenderControler.

But i don't know where i can check if SelfoccEnable is enabled.

Regards Hans,

[Madox58]

I had troubles with importing models today myself.
:nope:
A face kept showing up inverted in S3D and in Game.
But other programs, 3D Max included, showed it as fine.
I finally detached the whole area and welded a few verts.
then re-imported everything and the problem was solved.

SH4 uses the UnifiedRender Controller.
Not Sh3.

[Hans Witteman]

I had troubles with importing models today myself.
:nope:
A face kept showing up inverted in S3D and in Game.
But other programs, 3D Max included, showed it as fine.
I finally detached the whole area and welded a few verts.
then re-imported everything and the problem was solved.

SH4 uses the UnifiedRender Controller.
Not Sh3.
I know what you mean i did something similar last night detaching part of the conning tower weld a bunch of loosed vertices re attach and import again without any problem.

I am totally lost again with the lightmap and what make me angry is that i don't know wich software is at fault:damn:

When you are perfectionist it is sometime more a plague than a gift believe me!

I uninstalled and reinstalled sh3 but the same problem is occurring again.

Regards Hans,

[Madox58]

In 3D Max (or any 3D program)
check that the UV mapping shows in the window when unwrapped.
Sometimes the UV mapping gets shifted and won't
work right in Game or S3D.
I have had to move the mapping up into the window then export
from Max to correct this.
I can do screen shots if you need to understand what I mean.

[Hans Witteman]

In 3D Max (or any 3D program)
check that the UV mapping shows in the window when unwrapped.
Sometimes the UV mapping gets shifted and won't
work right in Game or S3D.
I have had to move the mapping up into the window then export
from Max to correct this.
I can do screen shots if you need to understand what I mean.

Hi again privateer know what you mean i always check if it show in window cause sometime you have to reload the edit window twice before each channel show up.

I have reinstall old max version to see if the old obj exporter work better and again same damn problem, it is getting on my nerve seriously now.

I will try something else tonight but i am getting tired ouff.

Regards Hans,

[skwasjer]

The general structure of a DAT-file is:

- material
- (optional) embedded image
- texture map (set to: Ambient Occlusion)
- (optional) embedded image
- root node
- model
- label (name of node/model)
- controllers (f.ex. UnifiedRenderControler)
- subnodes


Whenever building new DAT-files, it is best to use an existing file that matches the layout of the unit/object you are building. For interiors, you pick an interior file. For a ship, you pick a ship-file. Then you strip it down to a bare minimum and build from there. I tend to copy alot from other files too by using CTRL+SHIFT+C (copies selected subtree structure instead of just a single chunk).

For the AO-map, when using Max, you must ensure you use the correct import function (import UVW-file for AO-map, instead of extra OBJ-files). Obviously, you must have exported the UVW-file from Max.

So you have:
- model.OBJ (main model)
- model-uv2.UVW (AO-map)

The extra channels 3, 4 can be forgotten. The game does not use them, and they are left overs from the devs (iow. channels they used during design of the models).

If you have an AO-map, you must have the UnifiedRenderControler. Again, check existing DAT-files on where to place the controller. It should be a child of the root-node, and placed before any subnodes, but after the label/model.

Last, the order of each chunk is very important (a treenode = chunk). The order is indicated by the number in the name (and seen at the top of each chunk-page). You can move chunks up/down in this order using the green arrows. Again, check existing DAT-files (or reuse them) for the correct order.



I badly need help i get this error message from Sh3 after saving : ``the node is referencing a material but the index of the material is higher than the index of the node``.


This message indicates that the material-node is placed after the node that references it. Look at the number in the name of each treenode. If f.ex. the material it's number is 10 but the node that uses it has number 7, you get this message. Correct this by moving the material (and it's subnodes) to the top of the file using the green up/down arrows.

[edit]
Final note: before importing an OBJ-file, you MUST have set up the DAT-file with all the materials (use the same name or order as in Max), and have those materials assigned to the node that 'hosts' the model-chunk (the one you import into). If not done, the import may succeed, but will not yield correct rendering in most cases.

Hope this helps,

skwas

[Hans Witteman]

)

The extra channels 3, 4 can be forgotten. The game does not use them, and they are left overs from the devs (iow. channels they used during design of the models).



Hi again skwasjer,

Do you mean that if i have put additional uvw channel in max ex; 3,4,5,6
the game won't be able to see them or you mean they where just leftover from the developers?

Thank you are helping me greatly once i will grasp most of the important concept i won't be asking much questions.

Regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

If you have an AO-map, you must have the UnifiedRenderControler. Again, check existing DAT-files on where to place the controller. It should be a child of the root-node, and placed before any subnodes, but after the label/model.
skwas

Hi again,

On this one i look extensively in nodes tree and for Silent hunter 3 i don't see any UnifiedRenderControler, i just load Flakmonkey lightmap for TypeIIA DAT files and his AO are working fine without having any UnifiedRenderControler in it, so i am now perplex on this one? Maybe you are talking about Silent hunter 4 am i right?

I am feeding on your precious infos!

Regards Hans,

[skwasjer]

Hi again skwasjer,

Do you mean that if i have put additional uvw channel in max ex; 3,4,5,6
the game won't be able to see them or you mean they where just leftover from the developers?

Thank you are helping me greatly once i will grasp most of the important concept i won't be asking much questions.

Regards Hans
I am only speaking about the DAT-file here:
channel 1: diffuse map
channel 2: AO-map

If you bake your lightmap in Max to channel 6, export it to -uv2.UVW. How you work in Max and what channels you use is of no relevance to S3D/game.

In SH4 (don't know about SH3), you sometimes see in DAT extra channels too: 3, 4. These are what I mentioned 'left overs from the devs'. The game only knows about 2 channels.

[skwasjer]

Hi again,

On this one i look extensively in nodes tree and for Silent hunter 3 i don't see any UnifiedRenderControler, i just load Flakmonkey lightmap for TypeIIA DAT files and his AO are working fine without having any UnifiedRenderControler in it, so i am now perplex on this one? Maybe you are talking about Silent hunter 4 am i right?

I am feeding on your precious infos!

Regards Hans,
I don't have SH3 installed, so I can't check, but I remember SH3 had UnifiedRenderControler too (but privateer indicates it doesn't, so I'd go with that). Whether it is required I do not know, perhaps if it is left out, AO-map is implied from whether the 2nd UV-map is available on the model and a lightmap texture configured on the material... In SH4 at least, it IS required for AO to work.

All I can say is, most commonly, the problem is with incorrect chunk order, the model was not imported correctly (DAT-materials not set up properly prior to import) or the UnifiedRenderControler is missing or incorrectly setup. So you should try verifying this.

[edit] CORRECTION, I misread your question: interiors do NOT have the UnifiedRenderControler (neither in SH4), this is reserved for external models/units. Instead, for interiors you must have an InteriorIllumination-controller for the lightmap to work afaik!

Perhaps all a bit confusing yes, since I generally talk about SH4, but most info applies to SH3 as well.

Hope this helps.

[Hans Witteman]

If you bake your lightmap in Max to channel 6, export it to -uv2.UVW. How you work in Max and what channels you use is of no relevance to S3D/game.


I am still a little bit confused with this one because as an ex: I import so far and remodel the entire Turm2A_1_conning int_high and i have split the original uv layout as 2 separates uv layout instead of 1 in vanilla version, i made one for the floor at 1024x1024 and one for the rest of the interior conning tower at 2048x2048 and both show up fine in sh3 editor and in game.

For the Turm2A_1_conning ext_high i even have 3 different uv layout total and all show up fine in your editor and in game, so if the game can only have 2 channel usable why my 3 channels are all working fine?

Maybe it is because we both are trying to communicate in our non native language :hmmm:

But i sincerely appreciated your time and effort to help me out.

Regards Hans,

[Hans Witteman]

[edit] CORRECTION, I misread your question: interiors do NOT have the UnifiedRenderControler (neither in SH4), this is reserved for external models/units. Instead, for interiors you must have an InteriorIllumination-controller for the lightmap to work afaik!

Does Turm2A_1_conning int_high count as an interior asset or exterior i mean that if the command room ans sub interior count as interior assets then Turm2A_1_conning int_high is outside just as the sub hull is??

Yes you are helping me a lot believe me i have work almost 12 to 15 hours a day since the last 3 weeks on this project because i am recovering from surgery. And so far i did wonder with that first TypeIIA i am very happy with the result it is totally historically accurate the only part i couldn't touch was the height of the Conning tower floor because i don't think it is possible to found the node for crew members position on CT floor i did search a bit but i think it is hardcoded maybe.

Regards Hans,

[skwasjer]

I am still a little bit confused with this one because as an ex: I import so far and remodel the entire Turm2A_1_conning int_high and i have split the original uv layout as 2 separates uv layout instead of 1 in vanilla version, i made one for the floor at 1024x1024 and one for the rest of the interior conning tower at 2048x2048 and both show up fine in sh3 editor and in game.

For the Turm2A_1_conning ext_high i even have 3 different uv layout total and all show up fine in your editor and in game, so if the game can only have 2 channel usable why my 3 channels are all working fine?

Maybe it is because we both are trying to communicate in our non native language :hmmm:

But i sincerely appreciated your time and effort to help me out.

Regards Hans,
Hi Hans,

Texture size is irrelevant, you are talking about different materials applied to one model, but they all still use map channel 1 for the diffuse uv-map. That's why S3D and the game show it correctly.

Again, for the lightmap you can also have it use multiple textures (multiple materials), but they all should use the same map channel (2 in the case of S3D/game)

[skwasjer]

Does Turm2A_1_conning int_high count as an interior asset or exterior i mean that if the command room ans sub interior count as interior assets then Turm2A_1_conning int_high is outside just as the sub hull is??

Yes you are helping me a lot believe me i have work almost 12 to 15 hours a day since the last 3 weeks on this project because i am recovering from surgery. And so far i did wonder with that first TypeIIA i am very happy with the result it is totally historically accurate the only part i couldn't touch was the height of the Conning tower floor because i don't think it is possible to found the node for crew members position on CT floor i did search a bit but i think it is hardcoded maybe.

Regards Hans,
I cannot answer this question because I don't have SH3, but when talking about conning towers (as seen in exterior view), then they count as the exterior.

[Hans Witteman]

then they count as the exterior.

That what i tough, so no need for unifiedcontroller just as seen in dat files structure from Flakmonkey lightmap mod.

I think i know why it is not working, i just import the obj and i get the warning message about materials missing and i click to import anyway, maybe i will try first setting all material nodes before importing obj tomorrow.

If you can tell me the general steps to integrated an animated objects on sub that will follow the sub with a sound trigger from player input on keyboard i would be in Valhalla :up:

Regards Hans,