Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

[vonTorpitz]

Recently I've heard a tremendous amount of flak both on and off this forum directed against SH5.
Its true, the game was released practically half finished and bug ridden to the extreme. But seriously! There's got to be a bright side to this dismal situation. We actually have a brand new u-boat simulator, exclusively set in The Battle of the Atlantic. The graphics in this game are absolutely amazing both inside and outside the boat, we can now move about the boat (this adds huge freakin possibilities if you use your imagination) and from what I've heard Ubisoft has created the game to very open-ended and moddable. And remember, their previous releases in this genre were also basically unfinished when released but the efforts (superhuman, I might add) of modding community were able to turn them into winners. I personally think the opportunities abound in this game and positivity goes along way folks. So, meine kameraden, keep faith in SH5 and keep faith in the unbelievable skills of the modding community surrounding this game. Because in a years' time this will probably be the best subsim you've ever played.

Danke und Sieg!

vonTorpitz

[VonHesse]

Umm, no.

I will continue to follow the forums and hope for the best, but untill UBI removes the invasive DRM and fixes the innumerable bugs that have been present since SH3 - inability to dive past 180m without running at flank speed, for instance - I will vote with my wallet.

I refuse to pay for a bug-ridden, half finished, and sloppily scripted mess.

Doing so would only reinforce to UBI that this is an acceptable business practice. I can only vote for myself, but vote I shall, and I refuse to be moved, coerced, or guilted into supporting SH5 based on what it "may become".

I'll buy it if, and when, it meets MY standards as a consumer - not yours. :nope:

[Zedi]

I'm not bothered by drm, bugs but.. by how casual this game it is. I just can't play it anymore, it's mega boring. Go there, sink that, refill. That's the SH5 campaign mode. Nothing hard nor exciting and the only thing that kept me playing was the graphics.

When I heard about the drm and that you actually have to be online to play, I was thrilled. I said.. oke, if all who play this will be online then there must be a strong multiplayer option... yay. Again, a major disappointment, the MP part is a joke, maybe the worst part in SH5.

As most of the people here said, this game may be enjoyable in 6 months or so, after few patches and some hardcore moding. Now, is a fail boat. Boring and casual, filled with bugs, and no MP. It has the potential to become something cool, but that's because the great community and moders, not because the developers.

[Sonoboy]

I will not be buying this game for quite some time.

I find it very disgusting that ubisoft releases an unfinished game and expects the modders to make it into something great. I have the utmost confidence that the modders will achieve that, but we're not paying the modders for this game, are we? Ubisoft is basically using free labor to finish their product. It's not fair to modders that they have to finish creating the game. It's not fair to the gamers that they pay $50 for a beta-test (and let's not forget those who don't have interest in using mods). That's how I feel about this whole issue.

Second reason is that I don't think my computer will run it very well. Third: I'm enjoying SH3.

[vonTorpitz]

I totally agree and sympathize with all of your comments. It does seem as though Ubisoft relies on the modding community to finish their SH products. Its bad business. Since the release of SH3 the genre has needed massive modding overhauls in order to be half-assed playable.
I paid the retail price for SH5 and like most who did, I was immediately disappointed. I agree, if Ubisoft is going to release a subsim(?) that is 1/3 finished then they should be charging 1/3 the price. Unfortunately, this is not the case. I hope Ubisoft hasn't torpedoed the entire genre by disillusioning their very unique fanbase.
The fact remains though, I and many others have paid the full price and for me, at least, there is no sense crying over spilled milk. SH5 is, as far as I know, the only current u-boat sim available. If there were any other viable options in the submarine genre to choose from the story would be different. But as it stands, this is what we have to work with for now.
Id still like to think there are enough others out there who also own the game, who think it stands a fighting chance, and who want a change from the older SH releases. Lets move forward and in the spirit of the real u-boat crews, lets have a little faith and create victories out of the most adverse conditions. To hell with Ubisoft.

[IanC]

Umm, no.

I will continue to follow the forums and hope for the best, but untill UBI removes the invasive DRM and fixes the innumerable bugs that have been present since SH3 - inability to dive past 180m without running at flank speed, for instance - I will vote with my wallet.

I refuse to pay for a bug-ridden, half finished, and sloppily scripted mess.

Doing so would only reinforce to UBI that this is an acceptable business practice. I can only vote for myself, but vote I shall, and I refuse to be moved, coerced, or guilted into supporting SH5 based on what it "may become".

I'll buy it if, and when, it meets MY standards as a consumer - not yours. :nope:

:sign_yeah:

[tommyk]

Umm, no.

I will continue to follow the forums and hope for the best, but untill UBI removes the invasive DRM and fixes the innumerable bugs that have been present since SH3 - inability to dive past 180m without running at flank speed, for instance - I will vote with my wallet.

I refuse to pay for a bug-ridden, half finished, and sloppily scripted mess.

Doing so would only reinforce to UBI that this is an acceptable business practice. I can only vote for myself, but vote I shall, and I refuse to be moved, coerced, or guilted into supporting SH5 based on what it "may become".

I'll buy it if, and when, it meets MY standards as a consumer - not yours. :nope:

QFT! thanks.

[KL-alfman]

SH5 is, as far as I know, the only current u-boat sim available. If there were any other viable options in the submarine genre to choose from the story would be different. But as it stands, this is what we have to work with for now.


your reasons are well respected and I hope SH5 someday will turn out to be what you did expect when you bought it.

but as for different availabilities:
for me there are still some other super-mods to try in SH3 besides GWX (NYGM, LSH, WAC) and I recently bought SH4 which I will also install someday and look forward to the different characteristics of the fleet-boats.
so (for me) there are many other subsims to choose from atm and this makes it easy to stay away from SH5 for the next one or two years (or forever if I will be forced to connect to U-play).

[Jimbuna]

There is a lot of merit in what you have posted (heaven only knows how often I've read almost identical posts in recent months) so let us not try and reinvent the wheel.

As can clearly be seen, the community is divided over the most recent release of the SH series (and not for the first time).

Ubisoft are the only company currently offering anything in this genre and as such it could probably be argued that support in the way of sales for SH5 are vital if there is to be any more releases in the future.

The other side of the coin is for Ubisoft to consider....they are obviously aware of the strength of feeling and anguish within the subsimming community and as such IMHO it is down to them to show some measure of good faith with said client base.

Probably the best way would be to drop the need for DRM/OSP and release a few patches that fix/correct some of the fundamental problems with the game.

The community are confident they can rely on the modding fraternity to do their bit (as has always been the case) and Ubisoft are well aware of this too.

The question is.....Will Ubisoft play their part and meet us half way?

[SteveW1]

Umm, no.

I will continue to follow the forums and hope for the best, but untill UBI removes the invasive DRM and fixes the innumerable bugs that have been present since SH3 - inability to dive past 180m without running at flank speed, for instance - I will vote with my wallet.

I refuse to pay for a bug-ridden, half finished, and sloppily scripted mess.

Doing so would only reinforce to UBI that this is an acceptable business practice. I can only vote for myself, but vote I shall, and I refuse to be moved, coerced, or guilted into supporting SH5 based on what it "may become".

I'll buy it if, and when, it meets MY standards as a consumer - not yours. :nope:

I'll second this

[TDK1044]

Ubisoft has a history with SHIII and SHIV of releasing unfinished, buggy games that required significant patching in the first year after release. With SH5, they released an unfinished, buggy game that also requires that you play it with a permanent internet connection, using unreliable ubisoft servers.

Early indications are that the target demographic (casual gamers) are not buying this game in large numbers, and neither are many of the franchise core supporters.

Bottom line....cluster f**k! A marketing disaster.

This arrogant Publisher is getting exactly what it deserves. :)

[Bilge_Rat]

how original, yet another thread where posters state why they will not buy the game, as if the rest of us care.

[thyro]

SH5 is, as far as I know, the only current u-boat sim available. If there were any other viable options in the submarine genre to choose from the story would be different. But as it stands, this is what we have to work with for now.


SH4 has similar graphs and far better stability plus plenty of mods to chose from. In one or two years I'd consider SH5. IF (BIG IF) online DRM idiocracy is dropped.

But till then SH3 still rocks as most complete sub simulator seconded by SH4 as best graphic candy plus 2 different environments (pacific and atlantic) modded.

SH5 well let it rest on the sheves till it gets finished + patched + online DRM free.

Like others I vote with my wallet and these are my terms. Cheers

[TDK1044]

how original, yet another thread where posters state why they will not buy the game, as if the rest of us care.

The point is that fewer people are actually buying this game...and some of those people are trying to take it back.

Ubisoft is finally getting what it deserves in my opinion. People are finally voting with their wallets. About time.

[Shiplord]

Its true, the game was released practically half finished and bug ridden to the extreme. But seriously! There's got to be a bright side to this dismal situation. We actually have a brand new u-boat simulator, exclusively set in The Battle of the Atlantic.

As Neal said before the release of SH5 in his comment about the half finished state of SH4


I promise you, if this happens again with SH5, I will join you with a pitchfork. Even if it kills the franchise (we always have SH3 and GWX). The relationship between Ubisoft (or any game publisher) and Subsim has to be a two-way street of trust and cooperation. I know the Ubisoft marketing group have a job to do, but if the game is half-finished, that I cannot abide.

Why should we forgiven them again and again about this practice of Ubisoft and their devs? Just because they are the only ones who making a submarine simulation?

I said no! At some point there must be an end with the pardon that they always produce the same mistakes in their software, always raise the same half-finished crap on the market.:nope:

[vonTorpitz]

Judging by the posts Ive read. I can tell feelings are running hot concerning the inadequacies of SH5. Most of all, it seems that Ubisofts DRM policy is the predominant gripe here. Given the amount of negative press this thing is getting its only a matter of course until Ubisoft pulls it. Incidentally,(and I am truly reluctant to post this in light of the anguish Ive read about) I have experienced zero problems logging on to SH5 through Ubisofts servers. Not once. Maybe Im lucky. To be clear though, I am not condoning the unfinished product SH5 or Ubisofts draconian marketing schemes either.
In any case, the thread was directed to those who have already bought the game and how we can make it better. If you like SH3 then play it. Im ready to move on. And I sincerely hope others who've bought the game are as well.
Either that or we commandeer a U -Boat, sail to Romania or whatever backwater Eastern European paradise this game was created in ........and nuke it.

[Taurolas]

Judging by the posts Ive read. I can tell feelings are running hot concerning the inadequacies of SH5. Most of all, it seems that Ubisofts DRM policy is the predominant gripe here. Given the amount of negative press this thing is getting its only a matter of course until Ubisoft pulls it. Incidentally,(and I am truly reluctant to post this in light of the anguish Ive read about) I have experienced zero problems logging on to SH5 through Ubisofts servers. Not once. Maybe Im lucky. To be clear though, I am not condoning the unfinished product SH5 or Ubisofts draconian marketing schemes either.
In any case, the thread was directed to those who have already bought the game and how we can make it better. If you like SH3 then play it. Im ready to move on. And I sincerely hope others who've bought the game are as well.
Either that or we commandeer a U -Boat, sail to Romania or whatever backwater Eastern European paradise this game was created in ........and nuke it.

Lucky for you vonTorpitz, i bought the game, it patched itself and then it wouldnt load and wont go past the updating loader pop up window, so it would seem i purchased a game i cannot play... DRM strikes again! :damn: looks like i'm going back to SH4 :up:

[Sonarman]

Either that or we commandeer a U -Boat, sail to Romania or whatever backwater Eastern European paradise this game was created in ........and nuke it.

I suspect as many here do that the torpedoes/nukes should be aimed instead at Ubisoft HQ in Paris. The Romanian dev team have their hearts in the right place regading the series and have simply not been given enough time/money to complete the job as intended by the bean counters and shareholder servicers above.

When push come to shove and someone has to explain why the game failed to HQ I hope someone at Ubi Romania will stand up for the future of the series and tell HQ they didn't give them enough time or money on this game, that they barely marketed it at all, made it the poster boy for the most hated computer "innovation" of recent times (DRM) and saddled it with a completely sub-standard & confusing manual. They don't listen to their customers hopefully Ubisoft HQ will listen to their staff. Or is it only shareholders that are their concern, If so then that's very bad business indeed.

[HundertzehnGustav]

LOLz

1 positive post

spawning a barricade of Artillery dropping down.

where are the other SHV lovers?

[Faamecanic]

I suspect as many here do that the tops should be aimed instead at Ubisoft HQ in Paris. The Romanian dev team have their hearts in the right place regading the series and have simply not been given enough time/money to complete the job as intended by the bean counters and shareholder servicers above.

When push come to shove and someone has to explain why the game failed to HQ I hope someone at Ubi Romania will stand up for the future of the series and tell HQ they didn't give them enough time or money on this game, that they barely marketed it at all, made it the poster boy for the most hated computer "innovation" of recent times (DRM) and saddled it with a completely sub-standard & confusing manual. Since they don't listen to their customers hopefully Ubisoft HQ will listen to their staff. Or is it only shareholders that are their concern?

:agree: But I will add patience has worn thin with a lot of the VETERAN SH series users due to the fact A LOT of bugs that we saw in SH 3 have carried over to SH4 then to SH 5.

I understand the DEVS wanting to have have "Bigger and Better"...heck we all do. But to leave in OBVIOUS bugs from 2 iterations past, and introduce NEW OBVIOUS bugs (friendly ships moving in reverse, blocking your path) is unexcusable. All the eye candy and new functions (that are only half finished) will NEVER make up for such an incomplete release.

Better to work 99% of the bugs out of SH 4, THEN update the graphics (time permitted) and introduce a NEW campaign system (time permitted) then to release such an incomplete product like SH 5.

[STEED]

For the record, I'm not buying SH5 as I already got a U-Boat game that of SH3 and the find body of the modeling community here bought us GWX which is a hit with me, so I do not want two U-Boat games. Yes SH5 has better graphics so what, it was bound too. I was hoping to see a surface big fleet action but that was not the case, Ubi has only done what comes naturally, SH3 was a hit so they cashed in on it to bring us SH4 & SH5, thats business for you.

So to sum up for me, I not for buying it, as already stated, and I'm not knocking it as I have no right too, as I've not bought it. ;)

[Darkseed]

My biggest gripe with the game and the reason I won't buy it is not all the bugs and barely beta-state of the game, not even the DRM (though that is a big part) but the fact that the game is not so much a sim than a Quake at sea. They dumbed it down a huge amount and for what? No amount of dumbing down will get the Halo-kids to buy it and will only serve to alienate all the true fans of the genre. Way to shoot yourselves and your fans in the foot, Ubi. I hope you go to hell.

[Nokia]

The half-finished state the game is in I could forgive but he DRM is a no no.
For me the problem is the DRM. I'm against this kind of DMR in general, not just in SH5 because in the end it's only going to hurt those who have bought the game. They say it's to prevent piracy but it won't. Just about every game has been cracked and many on the day they are released. So in the end the paying customer will have to put up with loosing connection etc. whilst those who pirated the game don't have to be connected to the ubi servers and can play the game when they please. So I ain't buying it before the DRM is removed. Like a vice man once said: "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."

[Hanomag]

What really suxx is...

1) if you play it and like it.. you still have to deal with the bugs etc ...

2) if you refuse to buy it.. you still have to deal with the fact that a newer version of a game you would have loved to play did not materialize..

So its a BIG Shiite sandwich and we ALL have to take a bite! :nope:

[janh]

The other side of the coin is for Ubisoft to consider....they are obviously aware of the strength of feeling and anguish within the subsimming community and as such IMHO it is down to them to show some measure of good faith with said client base.

Probably the best way would be to drop the need for DRM/OSP and release a few patches that fix/correct some of the fundamental problems with the game.

The community are confident they can rely on the modding fraternity to do their bit (as has always been the case) and Ubisoft are well aware of this too.

The question is.....Will Ubisoft play their part and meet us half way?

That is the point, indeed.

Besides SHV, there still is SHIII+GWX competing with it and as it stands (for me), the latter wins. I don't care much about the graphics, I want to simulate submarine warfare, so I need realism (historic), AI and features.

I'd give SHV a chance, especially that it almost reached the discounted bin after 4 weeks. But OSP-DRM is a NO by principle -- I would be screwed worse as a customer then a person that pirates it would be.
But it is nice that Ubisoft has repeated its traditions of early, buggy releases, minimzing content for shortening release cycles and helping it's stockholders gain wealth. Just not mine.

With the addition of the OSP-DRM Ubi luckily has given customers now a 2nd major reason to reject their products besides quality. It is so ironic that they sink their sales themselves. And push people to use pirated versions, or entirely ignore their franchise. I wonder where their markerting stragtegy department learned its job -- at a demolition school?

[janh]

...They say it's to prevent piracy but it won't. Just about every game has been cracked and many on the day they are released. ...

If it were just (or mainly) about piracy, why would they prevent reselling of the title through binding the customer account?

[Navarre]

2) if you refuse to buy it.. you still have to deal with the fact that a newer version of a game you would have loved to play did not materialize..

Do you really think a newer version out of the office Ubisoft would be better, this time more completely and with fewer release version bug's?

The comunity believed this after SH3 and also assumed that the next Ubisoft subsim will be better, Ubisoft will have learned from their mistakes. Then SH4 dropped on the market and again the comunity believed the next Subsim will be much better Ubisoft will have learned from their mistakes ...

[Feuer Frei!]

To the OP and addressing the title,
it's like anything in life, everything/one deserves a chance, so does this game.

That is why i am sitting back and waiting...giving it a chance to develop and mature into what will hopefully be a wonderful sub sim.

Unfortunately i see that some have perhaps misconstrued the title and assumed this can be another thread to retread old ground.

[stoneys-nutz]

Recently I've heard a tremendous amount of flak both on and off this forum directed against SH5.
Its true, the game was released practically half finished and bug ridden to the extreme. But seriously! There's got to be a bright side to this dismal situation. We actually have a brand new u-boat simulator, exclusively set in The Battle of the Atlantic. The graphics in this game are absolutely amazing both inside and outside the boat, we can now move about the boat (this adds huge freakin possibilities if you use your imagination) and from what I've heard Ubisoft has created the game to very open-ended and moddable. And remember, their previous releases in this genre were also basically unfinished when released but the efforts (superhuman, I might add) of modding community were able to turn them into winners. I personally think the opportunities abound in this game and positivity goes along way folks. So, meine kameraden, keep faith in SH5 and keep faith in the unbelievable skills of the modding community surrounding this game. Because in a years' time this will probably be the best subsim you've ever played.

Danke und Sieg!

vonTorpitz

I would have to agree with you, give it a chance to mature.
Seems like the people shouting the loudest are the ones who haven't even bought the game.

In the few weeks it s been out the modders have done wonders, so lets wait a while longer before we organise a wake for this game, i say game because its not a Sim just yet, but its getting closer all the time.

As for the DRM, i don't like it but i wont let that spoil any enjoyment i get from this game, i have had problems with DRM same as most players and have moaned about that but welcome to the future of gaming, if i spent Millions developing a game i would want to protect it too.

Bottom line is we have got what we have got, so if you don't like it thats fine, but by the time the modders have finished it will be a great Sim, with or without DRM, and with or without all the moaners.
Anyhoo, thats my two bobs worth.

[Pandion]

I just can't play it anymore, it's mega boring. Go there, sink that, refill. That's the SH5 campaign mode.

I'm sorry but how is that different from the other's in the series. :hmmm:

[Bilge_Rat]

where are the other SHV lovers?

Too busy playing the game to keep dealing with this nonsense...:ping:

[TDK1044]

Too busy playing the game to keep dealing with this nonsense...:ping:

Yes. Both of them. :)

[Immacolata]

What really suxx is...

1) if you play it and like it.. you still have to deal with the bugs etc ...

2) if you refuse to buy it.. you still have to deal with the fact that a newer version of a game you would have loved to play did not materialize..

So its a BIG Shiite sandwich and we ALL have to take a bite! :nope:

Precisely. You are doomed as a subsim lover. Buy it and support sloppy releases. Refuse to buy it and support the franchise's demise.

It is like if you really enjoy the special romanian-french kitchen. But the only restaurant in town has really bad service and they serve cold dinner half the time. If you refuse to eat there, they will close shop and you'll never eat romanian-french cuisine again, which you so much love. If you eat there, you have to endure what ever quality food served. Hard place isnt it.

[HundertzehnGustav]

I'm sorry but how is that different from the other's in the series. :hmmm:

SHIII = go there patrol that, then roam free and try to makle it back home oin one piece... in 1944!

[John Channing]

SHIII = go there patrol that, then roam free and try to makle it back home oin one piece... in 1944!

Except for the 1944 part that is exactly what my orders from BDU were for this patrol. Oh... and I can do historically correct night surface attacks early on in the war.

JCC

[Sailor Steve]

Too busy playing the game to keep dealing with this nonsense...:ping:
Excellent lunge!
Yes. Both of them. :)
Excellent riposte!

There are a bunch of people enjoying the game, or trying to.

There are a bunch of people who played it, hated it, and said they'd be back when it was working better.

There are a bunch of people who will see if patches and fixes make it better, and then will buy it.

And there are a bunch of people who refuse to buy it while it's a force-fed online game.

Everybody has a different take, and everybody is more than willing to express there opinions. Everybody also seems to willing to take cheap shots at anybody who disagrees with them.

This is a thread asking players to give SH5 a chance. I'm more than willing to do that, once they'll let me play it.

It doesn't need to be a shooting war.

[sergei]

Well said Steve.
I'll happily admit that I am in one of those bunches of people you have described :DL
But I try and remember that my opinion is just that. An OPINION.
And I can express it without being having a shot at someone else who happens to have a different one.
There really is no need to make the argument personal here.

[Nordmann]

I gave SH5 a chance (bargain bin for the win), and so far I have been enjoying it. There are issues of course, but that is no different from any release. I think most of the resentment stems from the net requirement, which is understandable, however the game itself is not quite as bad as some are claiming. The mod community is already bashing out some truly inspirational work, and I have no doubt that more is to come, this in itself makes the game worth playing.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, there is no call for attacks against one another based on personal preference, which is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Some people will enjoy it, some will not. That is life.

[janh]

Yes. Both of them. :)

ROFL. But the purpose of this thread is hopefully not one party attacking the other here. So I would suggest to stop pointing fingers. Some people simply enjoy the game as is, and others have higher expectations. And both are entitled to their opinion, which each side should treat seriously if they want to be considered serious.

[Nordmann]

Most games tend to be more popular when modded, just look at the Total War series for example, Rome was basically a joke before the modders worked their magic. True, it should not be this way, but I can assure you that unfinished products are by no means a Ubi trait alone.

[vonTorpitz]

Precisely. You are doomed as a subsim lover. Buy it and support sloppy releases. Refuse to buy it and support the franchise's demise.

It is like if you really enjoy the special romanian-french kitchen. But the only restaurant in town has really bad service and they serve cold dinner half the time. If you refuse to eat there, they will close shop and you'll never eat romanian-french cuisine again, which you so much love. If you eat there, you have to endure what ever quality food served. Hard place isnt it.

Nice analogy. But a microwave oven and some salt and pepper can go a long way, this game needs both.

[Ducimus]

The thread title is horrible. What is this, the peace movement? Should we start wearing hippe beads and join some political movement while giving out the free love?

There really is no need for this drama. This is just another unfinished ubisoft title. It will end up with the usual 4 patch's, and the usual unresolved issues. So It's all really quite simple:

If you like the game:
What are you doing here if your not posting at work? Go play the game and enjoy yourself.

If you like the game but find the bugs unbearable, you have three options:

A.) Put up with the bugs. You bought the game, and you probably knew better.
b.) Shelve the game until next patch and go do something else in the meantime.
c.) Quite your bitching about the bugs, do something about it instead. In otherwords, shut up and mod, or learn how to.


If you don't like the game:
Throw the damn game into the pile of shelf fodder that collects dust, go play something else, and stop bitching about a game you don't even play. You have two other silent hunter titles to choose from for crying out loud.

Seems easy enough to me.

[jazman]

Do you really think a newer version out of the office Ubisoft would be better, this time more completely and with fewer release version bug's?

The comunity believed this after SH3 and also assumed that the next Ubisoft subsim will be better, Ubisoft will have learned from their mistakes. Then SH4 dropped on the market and again the comunity believed the next Subsim will be much better Ubisoft will have learned from their mistakes ...

Here's the gaming community mantra:

"Fooled once, shame on you. Fooled twice, shame on you. Fooled thrice, shame on you..."

[jazman]

If you don't like the game:
Throw the damn game into the pile of shelf fodder that collects dust, go play something else, and stop bitching about a game you don't even play. You have two other silent hunter titles to choose from for crying out loud.



Booing at games is a fan's prerogative. You might ask, "If you don't like the way they play, why don't you just leave?" And I don't mind people complaining.

[Brag]

I am glad a few people bought this game and have reported on it.
Everything about this release is a disaster. Why should anyone pay to get a packet of agravation?

Maybe the game can be saved. The missions seem childish and of little interest to a seasoned subsimmer. Then, there are the bugs and the real killer, OSP/DRM.

It would be nice of Ubi if it would just go away and peddle crap elswhere.
I would like to see an indy studio who responds to its client base make a good subsim.

[vonTorpitz]

I gave SH5 a chance (bargain bin for the win), and so far I have been enjoying it. There are issues of course, but that is no different from any release. I think most of the resentment stems from the net requirement, which is understandable, however the game itself is not quite as bad as some are claiming. The mod community is already bashing out some truly inspirational work, and I have no doubt that more is to come, this in itself makes the game worth playing.

Nice post Nordmann. I pretty much agree with this quote in its entirety.
I love the other SH releases. I still play SH4 w/ OpsMonsun U-Boat mod, but I am so stoked about a new SH and its possibilities, that I'm in no way ready to jump ship and cut my losses. Right now, what SH5 needs most is a supportive fanbase and modding community. This is probably the most critical time in which to make SH5 sink or swim, or at least keep it afloat for now.
The gripes have all been repeated many times, the complaints have all been made. So really folks, lets move forward already. Ubisofts to blame, we all know it. But that doesnt change the fact that we have a baby here that needs some TLC. In truth, all of this negative venting at Ubisoft on this forum is counterproductive as far as getting SH5 to a playable state.
Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater and lets get rolling on fixing this diamond in the rough

[Ducimus]

Booing at games is a fan's prerogative. You might ask, "If you don't like the way they play, why don't you just leave?"....

Nice reversal there. (http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20100326)

[Webster]

Booing at games is a fan's prerogative. You might ask, "If you don't like the way they play, why don't you just leave?" And I don't mind people complaining.

there is no reason to be rude, you can make your points without that comment so why go there?


Nice reversal there. (http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20100326)

while there are numerous poeple on these forums who become trolls from time to time depending on the topic being discussed, so we try to be understanding and only call out the worse cases.

[Iron Budokan]

Yes. Both of them. :)


:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Subnuts]

'Ya know folks, I think the proper play on words here is "Give Patch A Chance." I think John Lennon would approve.

[vonTorpitz]

The other side of the coin is for Ubisoft to consider....they are obviously aware of the strength of feeling and anguish within the subsimming community and as such IMHO it is down to them to show some measure of good faith with said client base.

Probably the best way would be to drop the need for DRM/OSP and release a few patches that fix/correct some of the fundamental problems with the game.

The community are confident they can rely on the modding fraternity to do their bit (as has always been the case) and Ubisoft are well aware of this too.

The question is.....Will Ubisoft play their part and meet us half way?

Well, it seems that Ubisoft is beginning to make good on this release. Patch 2 is on the way (supposedly April 12) and the list of fixes looks good. Naturally, it doesn't address all the issues but 2 patches in just over a month's time says that Ubisoft is concerned and aware of the flak surrounding this release.
There are some amazing mods already available and the list is growing daily. When I first brought it home and installed it I was staggered by its state, as were many others, but my own personal aversion to this game lessens with every new mod I enable, and there are some damn good ones out already. After the upcoming patch the support of the modding community will undoubtedly gain even more steam. Confidence seems to be growing in SH5 and I think that pretty soon even the some of the worst detractors will be retiring their copies of SH3/4. The future is exciting. Good hunting!

[demonsss]

Ok stand on the prow of the boat, goto external view and your not there!! Also go back to your own view.. look in the water and no shadow..:hmmm:

Also watch the sun it nevers moves across the sky:-?

Why cant we have a sim that is a sim... flight sim has had real weather for ages and a dynamic live enviroment ( the sky really works!! and stars that you can nav by)

When the internet goes off come back and weather changes, come back and ships are not on fire.. also when i was in port one time, there were a least two ships on land blowing up errr!!:-?

Also bin the DRM its pants and im fed up with the problems, def going to wait at least a year before I buy another game from ubi, give them chance to sort it out.... Yea I will give them a chance... the chance to give all the paying people value for money and not have to wait... If you want us as beta testers then pay us!!:damn:

[jazman]

Nice reversal there. (http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20100326)

I must not be keeping up the good rep of the forum, sorry. When Ducimus has to chastise me, I know I'm this close --> <-- to the brig or, worse, a keelhauling. Thanks for the advice, mate.

[CybaGirl]

Well this is how I see things.

I pre ordered and brought the Australian Collectors Edition ($109.00) as I have been so looking forward to the next installment of this series. However after installing it and playing it for a couple of hours I became very frustrated and angry with the game. I was very disappointed as it was nothing like SH3 and I guess I had high expectations of the game. Originally I thought it would be like SH3 but with updated graphics. But as soon as I loaded the game interface I realized it was nothing like SH3.

Now this may be good for some and maybe bad for others. For me it was bad and I do not like having to move around inside of the sub either. As this made me feel quite nauseated. I have this same problem with first person shooter games as well. Well the Call Of Duty series are the only ones I don't get sick from for some unknown reason. Then to make things worse there was no keyboard commands so I could move around to different stations. The graphics however were amazing and I was very pleased with these.

Anyway I guess I was expecting alot from this game and I guess my hopes and expectations were shattered.

Am I angry or upset about spending so much money on the game?

NO

Why?

Because the way I see it. Even though the game might not be to my expectations at the moment. I am happy to pay what I paid for the game knowing full well that I am supporting a company who continues to write, develop and produce the Silent Hunter series. Because without UBISOFT where we all be?

We would not have our Silent Hunter series and for that reason alone that would be an absolute tragedy.

Now for those of you who are bashing UBISOFT and saying they deserve this deserve that and you hope they go down. I have one thing to say to you!

PIPE DOWN!

You are not helping the situation any and if this is the kind of attitude you are going to have. Then this could be the end of the game that we all love and adore.

I don't know if you have noticed or not. But so many companies these days seem to be producing less and less for the PC and making more for the console kiddies. As I know decent WWI and WWII flight simulators are basically non existent for the PC these days! Yet there is so many of them abundant on these consoles made for kids!

Is this what you want to happen to our Silent Hunter series as well? Because if it is. Then keep bitching about the game and don't support the series by not buying it. I am sure UBISOFT will sit up and take notice and say well that was fun while it lasted. No point putting money and resources into developing something if people are not going to buy it.

No doubt sooner or later the game will be playable through all the talented and dedicated modders who are on this forum. So please be patient. You know all good things come to those who wait.

Sometimes you don't always get what you want. But you get what you need and I think SH5 has alot of potential but it also needs it's fan base to stick together and support the game. So come on guys stop fighting amongst each other and stop complaining about the game.

Because in this day an age where just about everything is about making money. If the Silent Hunter series fails to make money then I fear that any more Silent Hunter releases will not see the light of day.

Is this what you guys want?

Think long and hard about bashing the game that you love and adore. As I am sure the walls have ears.

Finally the experience I had with SH5 has been a great outcome even though the game did not live up to my expectations. Now the reason being is that I have re installed and gone back to playing SH3 after having not played it since 2006. I cannot believe how much fun I had last night! I didn't go to bed till 3AM :D and I have been asking myself why have I not bothered installing and playing SH3 sooner?

Anyway I look forward to the new mods and to the increased development of SH5 and in the mean time I will continue to play SH3 :yeah:.

Just wish I was talented enough and had the ability to create mods myself :ping:.

[Yorktown_Class]

:sign_yeah:

Ditto..

[pythos]

I agree with the post above the one that approves of the post above it.

(confused?) Good)

[Ducimus]

I must not be keeping up the good rep of the forum, sorry. When Ducimus has to chastise me, I know I'm this close --> <-- to the brig or, worse, a keelhauling. Thanks for the advice, mate.

LOL, Not really, but you did step on a nerve. For the record, im an equal opportunity chastiser, and i'm not above taking jabs at myself. :O: Oh and... nobody has more brig or keel hauling time, and is still able to post here, then i. :haha:

[vonTorpitz]

Couldnt say it any better if I tried CybaGirl. Nice post. Seriously.:rock:

[theluckyone17]

I decided to give SH5 a chance when I spent more on my wife's shampoo and conditioner than SH5.

So far, the DRM/OSP that I detest hasn't affected me. I know it's lurking in the background, though, waiting to rear its ugly head. :down:

SH5 does feel like it's been orientated towards the arcade players. I'm not too concerned, though... I felt the same about SH4 when it was released. I'm secure in my belief that the modding community will have SH5 fixed up proper, given enough time.

[JScones]

@CybaGirl: So, you don't like SH5--in fact you called it "bad"--yet you want the Ubisoft bashers to "pipe down" so as not to end the game we all "love and adore"? :hmmm: I'm certainly confused.

I guess you're right though, if we all don't buy SH5, then there'll be no SH6 for us to bitch and whine(TM Subsim 2010) about in a year's time.

And that would be a shame.

Oh and... nobody has more brig or keel hauling time, and is still able to post here, then i. :haha:
Dowly would have to come close, surely? :hmmm:

[Drifter]

I find it very disgusting that ubisoft releases an unfinished game and expects the modders to make it into something great. I have the utmost confidence that the modders will achieve that, but we're not paying the modders for this game, are we? Ubisoft is basically using free labor to finish their product. It's not fair to modders that they have to finish creating the game.

EXACTLY. Very well said. I agree 100%. Many of the current SH5 modders don't realize, or just plain don't care that they are being used as free labor by Ubisoft to fix and finish the game. I refuse to work for Ubisoft for free any more. :down:

[Reece]

I guess you're right though, if we all don't buy SH5, then there'll be no SH6 for us to bitch and whine(TM Subsim 2010) about in a year's time.

And that would be a shame.
If it has OSP/DRM then I wouldn't want it anyway, so makes no diff to me!!:doh:

[THE_MASK]

I suspect that modders actually like modding LOL . But i do expect sh5 to be in a reasonable shape to start with . Hopefully after some patches it will be . I also expect the stupid drm to be patched out . So it is up to Ubi to give sh5 a chance .

[Drifter]

I suspect that modders actually like modding LOL . But i do expect sh5 to be in a reasonable shape to start with . Hopefully after some patches it will be . I also expect the stupid drm to be patched out . So it is up to Ubi to give sh5 a chance .

I agree. There is a big difference between 'modding' a game, and 'fixing and finishing' a game. That is not the modders' job.

[Ducimus]

There is a big difference between 'modding' a game, and 'fixing and finishing' a game. That is not the modders' job.

I could be mistaken, and i can't speak for others, but it feels I've like been fixing and finishing SH4 off and on for a few years now. I suspect modders for SH5 may end up feeling the same way.

[jazman]

I could be mistaken, and i can't speak for others, but it feels I've like been fixing and finishing SH4 off and on for a few years now. I suspect modders for SH5 may end up feeling the same way.

On your tombstone will be written, "Driven Deep by Silent Hunter"

[robbo180265]

Excellent lunge!

Excellent riposte!

There are a bunch of people enjoying the game, or trying to.

There are a bunch of people who played it, hated it, and said they'd be back when it was working better.

There are a bunch of people who will see if patches and fixes make it better, and then will buy it.

And there are a bunch of people who refuse to buy it while it's a force-fed online game.

Everybody has a different take, and everybody is more than willing to express there opinions. Everybody also seems to willing to take cheap shots at anybody who disagrees with them.

This is a thread asking players to give SH5 a chance. I'm more than willing to do that, once they'll let me play it.

It doesn't need to be a shooting war.

The most sensible post in this whole thread.

[TteFAboB]

As Sailor Steve, I'll give SH5 a chance when Ubisoft gives me a chance to play it as well, without the online requirement.

I have nothing against SH5 other than a few disappointments here and there, and I'm sure it can be enjoyed even then, since I myself enjoyed both SH3 and SH4 in their vanilla, bug-ridden crappy state.

Until then I'll sail other no less deserving seas.

[IanC]

Because the way I see it. Even though the game might not be to my expectations at the moment. I am happy to pay what I paid for the game knowing full well that I am supporting a company who continues to write, develop and produce the Silent Hunter series. Because without UBISOFT where we all be?


Support buggy unfinished SH5 or else we might never see a buggy unfinished SH6? I cant agree with that philosophy. Encouraging a company who dishes out inferior products, simply because they are the only ones making said product right now, is just wrong on so many levels.
But Im sure Ubi$oft looooves your way of thinking though.

[Reece]

Support buggy unfinished SH5 or else we might never see a buggy unfinished SH6? I cant agree with that philosophy. Encouraging a company who dishes out inferior products, simply because they are the only ones making said product right now, is just wrong on so many levels.
But Im sure Ubi$oft looooves your way of thinking though.Agree with that 100%:doh:

[Ablemaster]

Agree with many things said, ive used SH2 3, 4 and now 5, if nothing else UBI are consistant, all have been released with lots of bugs and obviously rushed through unfinished. Am happy to have a SH5 even in this state but cant help thinking that if a company got hold of SH and put the effort in, well it could be amazing. We all want an excellent SH and its a shame UBI put this out in such a bad state. I dont expect a SH6 or want one if its rushed through and unfinished UBI's reputation has taken a major hit here, fixing it will not mend the wounds, wish another company would take her on and give her the respect and work she deserves, this isnt a good way to attract new fans, thats for sure. As much as i want SH5 cant help thinking SH5 has been pushed out with no respect for the customers and blatently conned many, hell and that drm hell lets not go there. Its all a real shame, we all want SH5 to be all it can be, pity Ubi dont too.

[CybaGirl]

@CybaGirl: So, you don't like SH5--in fact you called it "bad"--yet you want the Ubisoft bashers to "pipe down" so as not to end the game we all "love and adore"? I'm certainly confused.


Sorry didn't mean to confuse you. What I meant was this.

Yes out of the box I think the game is bad. Well it's not to my liking because it isn't like SH3. As I said in the beginning of my post and this is probably my own fault. I had expectations of SH5 basically being a copy of SH3 but with better graphics. Yes the graphics in SH5 are awesome without a doubt. But the interface and game play is not like SH3 so this disappointed me. But in saying this. This was my own personal expectation without even knowing anything about the game.

You see I went out and brought the game without reading a single review or looking at any screen shots. I did see the promotional video and I thought it looked awesome! Even if I was unsure about the game and had read the reviews on it I still would have brought it. The reason is because I have brought and still own every single Silent Hunter game that has ever been produced along with Silent Service and Aces of The Deep including the expansion disk. So after buying and collecting for all these years even if the game was bad. I would still want it in my collection as it deserves to be apart of it.

As far as piping down. Saying that you don't like the game is one thing and there is nothing wrong with saying this. As everyone is entitled to their opinion. But saying that you wish the demise of UBISOFT or you hope that they suffer from loss of sales and it hurts the company is another thing in my opinion. Why would anyone in their right mind want UBISOFT to become a distant memory like great companies such as Cinemaware, Dynamix, MicroProse etc.... Seriously, you would have to be out of your tree to want something like this to happen. This may not have been mentioned in this particular thread but it has been mentioned in others and on other forums and I sometimes wonder if people have their brain engaged before accelerating their mouth or should I say fingers in this case.

Support buggy unfinished SH5 or else we might never see a buggy unfinished SH6? I cant agree with that philosophy. Encouraging a company who dishes out inferior products, simply because they are the only ones making said product right now, is just wrong on so many levels.
But Im sure Ubi$oft looooves your way of thinking though.

So how do you like running Linux? Are your games running well on it? What's the software support like? Any good? I mean you must be running Linux? As you couldn't possibly be running and encouraging an O/S from a company who has dished out inferior products in the past.

Who says it's unfinished? Is that your opinion or the opinion of the original designer and developer(s) of the game? If so. Can you please post the link where it's stated that the game is unfinished? Just because something isn't finished in yours or someone else's eyes doesn't mean that the software is actually unfinished. What this means is. In your opinion the game is unfinished and nothing more. Because it does not live up to your expectations nor does it have or does it do certain things that you would like it to do out of the box.

I wonder if you have ever tried explaining your philosophy to Windows users? I am sure many will not agree with your line of thinking. As Windows has no real competition! Yet they have and no doubt will continue to release buggy software in the future. Yet it is still sold by the millions! Its a fact of life not all software is ever finished nor is it 100% bug free. Yet people still buy it and people still support the companies who make such things. I mean even after all these years Windows XP is still getting updated and patched. Yet many believe this was the best O/S MS ever created.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k94/CybaGirl/icons/2cents2.gif

[Méo]

Umm, no.

I will continue to follow the forums and hope for the best, but untill UBI removes the invasive DRM and fixes the innumerable bugs that have been present since SH3 - inability to dive past 180m without running at flank speed, for instance - I will vote with my wallet.

I refuse to pay for a bug-ridden, half finished, and sloppily scripted mess.

Doing so would only reinforce to UBI that this is an acceptable business practice. I can only vote for myself, but vote I shall, and I refuse to be moved, coerced, or guilted into supporting SH5 based on what it "may become".

I'll buy it if, and when, it meets MY standards as a consumer - not yours. :nope::sign_yeah:
Ditto..
QFT! thanks.
I'll second this

Let's face it, it will be very long before SH5 meets your standards ....if ever. :hmmm:

There should be some kind of e-mail list in which you could subscribe and then Neal or one of the moderator here could send you a message once the game has been fixed and once the DRM has been removed.

So you wouldn't need to click on the ''Silent Hunter 5 forum'' every day and we wouldn't have to see the same old and endless complains over and over and over again.

[thyro]

...you wish the demise of UBISOFT or you hope that they suffer from loss of sales...

I don't own UBI shares but on other hand by not buying their lame products isn't me (the consumer) that is in fault... but the company it self that shot their own foot. As consumer you won't be buying a car that has a broken engine just because of the color of the paintwork.

Therefore lets cut the crap finger point at right direction if you are looking to blame someone for the current state of afairs.

PS: You are entitle to your opinion but that doesn't necessary mean alienating others that do not share it as I do not expect someone else agreeing entirely with me either. Cheers

[thyro]

Let's face it, it will be very long before SH5 meets your standards ....if ever. :hmmm:

There should be some sort of e-mail list in which you could subscribe and then Neal or one of the moderator here could send you a message once the game has been fixed and once the DRM has been removed.

So you wouldn't need to click on the ''Silent Hunter 5 forum'' every day and we wouldn't have to see the same old and endless complains over and over and over again.

I totally agree with your suggestion.

After all it is just a game and not a life! :)

[Takao]

Well CybaGirl,

Since you have not read reviews of the game, then perhaps you should read the one by by Neal Stevens, owner of this board, here: http://www.subsim.com/2010_03/review_sh5_mar2010.php

Since you have played all of the Silent Hunter games in the franchise, then you also realize that in Silent Hunter 2 & 3, you could play the Type II, Type VII, Type IX, and Type XXI u-boats. However, in Silent Hunter 5, you can only play the Type VII. I see this as a giant step back, not forward.

And why, do you mention Linux, as that too is not finished. Currently Linux is still under development. I mean thousands of programmers are still working on it to make it better.

I would also note that neither Linux nor Windows require me to be connected to the internet 100% of the time for them to work:rotfl2::rotfl2:
Another item to note Microsoft STILL SUPPORTS WINDOWS XP after all these years. Does Ubisoft still support Silent Hunter 3 & 4? I think not.

Life is filled with making compromises. People have made compromises with using Linux or Windows. Us gamers made compromises with SH III & IV. However given the current volatile financial times, I have not, and will not compromise with Windows 7 nor Silent Hunter V. Why should I spend the cash when I am perfectly happy with XP and Silent Hunter 3/4.


Gimme back my Type IX!

[Méo]

After all it is just a game and not a life! :)

It depends, looks like for some people it's a ''life''.

[thyro]

It depends, looks like for some people it's a ''life''.
Quite true! :salute:

These days the definition of "life" could have many meanings...

playing games is a way of life for some... tell the chinese otherwise and you'd get shot! (no prejudice here, just simple reference to online game "professionals" earning real money by selling online goods/characters from online games!) :DL

[TDK1044]

The outcome for Silent Hunter 5 is really dependent on whether Ubisoft continues to support the game with patches when sales of the game will be lower than their expectations, and whether they choose to remove the DRM component.

If they determine that low sales means no patch 3 or 4, then Silent Hunter 5 is dead in the water. The modders can only fix so much, and the game would die a natural death.

If Ubisoft has an epiphany, continues patching the game and removes the DRM, then the future is much brighter.

It's not about giving Silent Hunter 5 a chance; it's about a major Publisher admitting that they made a mistake and fixing it. :)

[Faamecanic]

I think the point is we HAVE given UBISTANK a chance. Since SH3 we have given them a "pass".

SH3 released (even after patches) INCOMPLETE.

SH4 released (even after free patches and one PAID patch) INCOMPLETE and in a worse state than SH3

SH5 released (I still HOPE for a complete game after patch...but given the above track record that NO ONE can argue...I dont have much hope in that).

So I ask what will UBI do next with SH6..... release the ALPHA version??

Sorry but if UBI's intent is to release SH6 in such a shoddy state as this pile of dung....then they should just leave the franchise alone, sell the rights to the name Silent Hunter, and let someone like MS or a indy developer do the next one.

And to CyberGirl...I will NOT PIPE DOWN! YOU may like to give your money to the UBI charity...I DO NOT. My love of my money over comes my love for subsims...and I feel ripped off right now. IF UBI had a better track record of FIXING the product they release (see above) then I would be in the "wait and see" crowd. But with SH4 collecting dust on bookcase for the last few years.... I hold very little hope for a complete sim with SH5. If UBI DOES fix it...GREAT.... I will PIPE DOWN at that point.

[Rockin Robbins]

Recently I've heard a tremendous amount of flak both on and off this forum directed against SH5.
Its true, the game was released practically half finished and bug ridden to the extreme. But seriously! There's got to be a bright side to this dismal situation.
There you go! Actually there are lots of bright spots, alternatives for your frivolous entertainment dollar. In a market brightly illuminated with companies who love and value their customers, somehow UBI believes that serial customer abuse is the way to success.

If John Wayne Gacy were the only clown in town, would you refuse to arrest, imprison and execute him because there wouldn't be any clown to entertain the children? Hmmmmmmmm? At what point does addiction rationalization become cruel self-mockery?

When Runescape, an online game you can play forever for free, and freely pay for if and only if you're absolutely convinced you love it, thinks it's necessary and important to operate 171 servers worldwide for quick and reliable player access, why is Ubi insulting us with a paltry three? So we will love them?:88)

Why does the word "Services" in Online Services Platform really mean "bend over and grab your ankles, this is going to hurt......a lot." Why does Ubi think we're willing to pay for this? The name literally drips with contempt for paying customers. This is a name dreamed up by some evil cartoon character, on a par with Internal Revenue Service, where the word means the same thing. What were they thinking? Honesty, when your honest intent is to cheat your paying customers, is sadly misplaced.

When Unreal Tournament 3 was released in November 2007, it had huge problems that devastated the reputation of Epic Games. After a year of not doing the right thing, somebody in the company saw the error of their ways and they went back to work. Now Unreal Tournament 3 is a great game because they realized that contempt for customers doesn't just hurt that game's sales, it undermines the true currency of the marketplace: trust.

After a similar length of time, instead of "rudder amidships" we still hear "rudder....rudder." How long will "extreme speed ahead" endure?

There are simply too many marketplace alternatives by companies who get it that "customer" is spelled with a capital "C" and who genuinely love them for us to waste our money on a game which shouldn't exist from a company who doesn't deserve to live. Off with Ubi's head! I'm done with them.

And thanks for all the fish.:arrgh!:

[Bilge_Rat]

blah, blah, blah...

...what happened to Sailor Steve's wise words not to turn this into a shooting war?

The game has been out for 5 weeks, most Subsimmers who were planning to buy it despite DRM have already done so and have either decided: a) it has "potential" or b) it's a POS and have moved on.

Continually posting I will not buy it until Ubisoft does this or does that is totally useless and we all know it. Ubisoft will release as many patches as it chooses and not one more. It will remove the DRM from SH5 when (or if) it makes financial sense.

yes, posters are free to keep posting exactly the same statement over and over and over again, but is'nt the definition of insanity to keep repeating the same action while expecting a different result? :ping:

[Kremmen]

yes, posters are free to keep posting exactly the same statement over and over and over again, but is'nt the definition of insanity to keep repeating the same action while expecting a different result? :ping:

Should forward that last part to Ubisoft methinks :O:

[robbo180265]

blah, blah, blah...

...what happened to Sailor Steve's wise words not to turn this into a shooting war?

The game has been out for 5 weeks, most Subsimmers who were planning to buy it despite DRM have already done so and have either decided: a) it has "potential" or b) it's a POS and have moved on.

Continually posting I will not buy it until Ubisoft does this or does that is totally useless and we all know it. Ubisoft will release as many patches as it chooses and not one more. It will remove the DRM from SH5 when (or if) it makes financial sense.

yes, posters are free to keep posting exactly the same statement over and over and over again, but is'nt the definition of insanity to keep repeating the same action while expecting a different result? :ping:

The second sensible post in this thread....

Edit to add: No I'm not getting involved in the fight - but I am getting bleeding bored with it!

[IanC]

So how do you like running Linux? Are your games running well on it? What's the software support like? Any good? I mean you must be running Linux? As you couldn't possibly be running and encouraging an O/S from a company who has dished out inferior products in the past.

I actually love my Ubuntu Linux, it's a great piece of software.

Who says it's unfinished? Is that your opinion or the opinion of the original designer and developer(s) of the game? If so. Can you please post the link where it's stated that the game is unfinished? Just because something isn't finished in yours or someone else's eyes doesn't mean that the software is actually unfinished. What this means is. In your opinion the game is unfinished and nothing more. Because it does not live up to your expectations nor does it have or does it do certain things that you would like it to do out of the box.

Who says it's unfinished!? Do I have to list you all the bugs that show that the devs clearly ran out of time, and that the game is indeed unfinished? This has nothing to do with my opinion. :lol:

I wonder if you have ever tried explaining your philosophy to Windows users? I am sure many will not agree with your line of thinking. As Windows has no real competition! Yet they have and no doubt will continue to release buggy software in the future. Yet it is still sold by the millions! Its a fact of life not all software is ever finished nor is it 100% bug free. Yet people still buy it and people still support the companies who make such things. I mean even after all these years Windows XP is still getting updated and patched. Yet many believe this was the best O/S MS ever created.


I'm sorry I can't follow your line of reasoning. You're comparing Windows XP to the Silent Hunter games. :doh:

[IanC]

Let's face it, it will be very long before SH5 meets your standards ....if ever. :hmmm:

There should be some kind of e-mail list in which you could subscribe and then Neal or one of the moderator here could send you a message once the game has been fixed and once the DRM has been removed.

So you wouldn't need to click on the ''Silent Hunter 5 forum'' every day and we wouldn't have to see the same old and endless complains over and over and over again.

I have a better idea Méo. Why don't you subscribe to an email list and then Neal or one of the moderators here could send you a message once the game has been fixed.
That way you can come back in the forum every day and say how good a subsim SH5 is and actually be right for once. :hmmm:

[Faamecanic]

blah, blah, blah...

...what happened to Sailor Steve's wise words not to turn this into a shooting war?

The game has been out for 5 weeks, most Subsimmers who were planning to buy it despite DRM have already done so and have either decided: a) it has "potential" or b) it's a POS and have moved on.

Continually posting I will not buy it until Ubisoft does this or does that is totally useless and we all know it. Ubisoft will release as many patches as it chooses and not one more. It will remove the DRM from SH5 when (or if) it makes financial sense.

yes, posters are free to keep posting exactly the same statement over and over and over again, but is'nt the definition of insanity to keep repeating the same action while expecting a different result? :ping:

And who is holding the gun to your head forcing you to not only read the complaint posts but then comment on the people posting their dissatisfaction?

As much as you and others constantly kavetch about being tired and bored of reading all the complaint posts.... you sure have no problem leaving your comment in every one of them (usually just to bash those with valid complaints).

I wish to complain about the complainers complaining about the complaints!!

[Faamecanic]

After a similar length of time, instead of "rudder amidships" we still hear "rudder....rudder." How long will "extreme speed ahead" endure?


Funny...the rudder rudder was a problem in SH 4 as well...well except for the fact that in SH4 you heard this after going to FULL rudder and back (which we cant do very well in SH 5 without going EXTREME/LUDICROUS speed ahead at the same time....great for when your underwater trying to evade that listening group of DD's overhead) :nope:

[Faamecanic]

The outcome for Silent Hunter 5 is really dependent on whether Ubisoft continues to support the game with patches when sales of the game will be lower than their expectations, and whether they choose to remove the DRM component.

If they determine that low sales means no patch 3 or 4, then Silent Hunter 5 is dead in the water. The modders can only fix so much, and the game would die a natural death.

If Ubisoft has an epiphany, continues patching the game and removes the DRM, then the future is much brighter.

It's not about giving Silent Hunter 5 a chance; it's about a major Publisher admitting that they made a mistake and fixing it. :)

:agree: Well said in 500 words or less. :yeah:

[robbo180265]

And who is holding the gun to your head forcing you to not only read the complaint posts but then comment on the people posting their dissatisfaction?

I wish to complain about the complainers complaining about the complaints!!

Ok I will bite now.

I've seen threads where SHV owners ask for help with something and get the reply: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I've seen threads praising SHV (like this one in fact) Only for the first or second reply to go: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I've seen reviews where the replies go something like: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I GET IT OK??????

Saying it over and over and over - what does it achieve ? Nothing other than annoying a lot of people.

If we dare to argue against the "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it" Then we are called fanbois or worse.

:damn:

[Faamecanic]

Ok I will bite now.

I've seen threads where SHV owners ask for help with something and get the reply: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I've seen threads praising SHV (like this one in fact) Only for the first or second reply to go: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I've seen reviews where the replies go something like: "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it"

I GET IT OK??????

Saying it over and over and over - what does it achieve ? Nothing other than annoying a lot of people.

If we dare to argue against the "blah, blah, blah, DRM. Blah , blah , blah Unfinished game - not buying it" Then we are called fanbois or worse.

:damn:

Ok...understand your irritated. And you will never see me post a complaint in a "help wanted on xxx" thread (that is Off topic and should be deleted).

But if a poster is giving his/her opinion on SH5 (which then says "this thread is for opinions") I will post mine. I will NOT attack someone that says they like the game... if you like it GREAT. Your opinion and your entitled to it.

I just find it humorus those people that not only post complaints about reading complainers...but then complain about all the complainers (sounds like a Monty Python skit).

As soon as you see a thread :

1) Asking for opinions on SH5

2) Commenting on Good/Bad of SH5

3) or the mulitudes of threads with the topic of why someone love/hates SH5

Your pretty much 100% guarenteed to see people posting who are not happy with the product.

So if it irritates you to see all the negative posts on SH5 (which really one must ask WHY so many SH series vets are totally ticked off) then the solution is simple....

Dont read those threads. Then you wont be tired/bored anymore.

[Bilge_Rat]

And who is holding the gun to your head forcing you to not only read the complaint posts but then comment on the people posting their dissatisfaction?

As much as you and others constantly kavetch about being tired and bored of reading all the complaint posts.... you sure have no problem leaving your comment in every one of them (usually just to bash those with valid complaints).

I wish to complain about the complainers complaining about the complaints!!

..but then what would WE have to complain about if the persistent complainers ceased all their persistent complaints in multiple complaints threads. That would force us to actually talk about the game..hmmm, what a novel concept.

Anyway, I want to lodge a complaint against the motion that certain complainers should be excluded from lodging complaints in complaints threads started by another faction.

Lets face it, we are all born complainers, if we did not complain about the game, we would complain about something else. For example, who chose the lame colours for the forum skins and why are we limited to only four choices? I want to lodge a complaint! :ping:

[Faamecanic]

..but then what would WE have to complain about if the persistent complainers ceased all their persistent complaints in multiple complaints threads. That would force us to actually talk about the game..hmmm, what a novel concept.

Anyway, I want to lodge a complaint against the motion that certain complainers should be excluded from lodging complaints in complaints threads started by another faction.

Lets face it, we are all born complainers, if we did not complain about the game, we would complain about something else. For example, who chose the lame colours for the forum skins and why are we limited to only four choices? I want to lodge a complaint! :ping:

ROFLMAO..... now that IS a Monthy Pyton skit in the making :har: :rock:

We need a forum Mod that ensures all complaints are compliant with the forum rules of complaining. First rule you must be complaining.... second rule you must post a second thread that complains about someone elses complaint, and lastly when someone complains about your complaining about the original complaint, you must respond complaining that they are complaining about your complaint that you where orginally complaining about.

There...... understand ....

(PS...nice way to defuse a thread that was getting too tense :up: :yep:)

[robbo180265]

..but then what would WE have to complain about if the persistent complainers ceased all their persistent complaints in multiple complaints threads. That would force us to actually talk about the game..hmmm, what a novel concept.

Anyway, I want to lodge a complaint against the motion that certain complainers should be excluded from lodging complaints in complaints threads started by another faction.

Lets face it, we are all born complainers, if we did not complain about the game, we would complain about something else. For example, who chose the lame colours for the forum skins and why are we limited to only four choices? I want to lodge a complaint! :ping:

Is that the 5 min complaint - or the full half hour?

Seriously - that post is full of win:DL

[Alcibiades]

with thread where everyone feels a need to post... including me too I guess :rotfl2:

*tacks up another complaint*

[Brag]

Give SHV a chance? Reward Ubi for diregarding and ignoring its customer base? Rewarding Ubi for producing shoddy goods?

The promoters of this philosopy deserve what they get.

What we need is a publisher who is responsive to subsimmers. If Ubi leaves the subsim market, there will be room for a responsive and responsible publisher to develop a submarine simulation we'll all enjoy to play and get value for money. :salute:

[kylania]

What we need is a publisher who is responsive to subsimmers. If Ubi leaves the subsim market, there will be room for a responsive and responsible publisher to develop a submarine simulation we'll all enjoy to play and get value for money. :salute:

What we have is Ubisoft. Where's Falcon 5? Where's Harpoon 4? There's not a big market for simulators and by not supporting Ubisoft, even in the face of bugs and this disastrous DRM, you're not saying "Screw you Ubisoft", you're saying "screw you sim games!"

There won't be some publisher saying, "Well, Ubisoft tanked badly with Silent Hunter 5, we should step in and make a bug free super immersive game for those fans! They deserve it after what UbiSoft did to them!"

[John Channing]

What we have is Ubisoft. Where's Falcon 5? Where's Harpoon 4? There's not a big market for simulators and by not supporting Ubisoft, even in the face of bugs and this disastrous DRM, you're not saying "Screw you Ubisoft", you're saying "screw you sim games!"

There won't be some publisher saying, "Well, Ubisoft tanked badly with Silent Hunter 5, we should step in and make a bug free super immersive game for those fans! They deserve it after what UbiSoft did to them!"

Where are E/A's new combat simulations?

Where are Janes Combat Simulations new projects?

Where are Sonalysts?

Where is Sierra?

Where is "Akula: Red Hunter" ?

Where is any company or individual that is even remotely contemplating simulation development?

You have Fighter Ops (8-9 years and counting).

You have Jet Thunder (4 years and counting)

you have SOW (3 years and counting)

But where are the independant developers that have expressed any on-going interest at all in a Sub Sim? I would love to see one actual name.

There have been a few people who got off to impressive starts but then ran out of steam and just disappeared. The arguement is foolish on the face of it. If Ubisoft is so very bad at this (5 strikes if you go back and read the archives), and Subsims really aren't a niche market, then someone would have stepped in already instead of virtually every publisher that ever developed a Sub Sim running away like someone doused them with scalding hot water.

So again I ask.

Where are these phantom developers?

JCC

[audessy]

The reality is that the PC gaming industry is crippled and dieing.

As consoles become more competitive with pc's in their multi-functionality (eg. using a keyboard, mouse, internet, and hard drives) you can kiss your sweet gaming rig goodbye.

I think UbiSoft's last "PC only" simulator that struck it big was IL-2. Now that's dead and they don't know what to do I'm assuming. Maddox in part let it die by making it completely unmoddable... Not everyone who plays a flight sim wants a bland flightsim anymore with no personality. Just realism. Silly stubborn Maddox... A $30 cd with fmv's, voice acting, and a more attractive game interface could've kept the game alive a little longer.

SH5 is beautiful but a disappointing mess. A lot of potential yes. But look at it this way. If everyone who developed mods for SH3/4/5 grouped together and put all their long hours on one thing we'd have the perfect sim by now.

In all honesty Ubi had something great in SH5. But it's incomplete. Ever click on a crew member and watch him for a few seconds? He keeps turning away and looking back. Really bad animation. It's as if they didn't hire beta testers or even played their own game once before releasing it.

[Méo]

say how good a subsim SH5 is and actually be right for once. :hmmm:

Ok, cuz I've already said that :06:

[Placoderm]

What we have is Ubisoft. Where's Falcon 5? Where's Harpoon 4? There's not a big market for simulators and by not supporting Ubisoft, even in the face of bugs and this disastrous DRM, you're not saying "Screw you Ubisoft", you're saying "screw you sim games!"

There won't be some publisher saying, "Well, Ubisoft tanked badly with Silent Hunter 5, we should step in and make a bug free super immersive game for those fans! They deserve it after what UbiSoft did to them!"

>>"Where's Falcon 5?"

It's called "Lock-on: Modern Air Combat", "Flaming Cliffs", and now "DCS: Black Shark".

>>"Where's Harpoon 4?

"Dangerous Waters" likely filled that position, although the games genre is even more limited than that for Silent Hunter. Unfortunately, many who love submarine games just can't seem to get into modern submarine warfare due to it's need for super stealth and dependance on fire-and-forget weapons. It takes a very, very unique kind of sub-simmer to enjoy a game where there are no deck guns and if you wish to survive for any length of time you should avoid ever using your periscope. To me, following wire-mesh seafloor contours was fun for a while, as was hearing whales on the hydrophones...but spending my entire war career hiding under multiple thermal layers and staring endlessly at electronic readouts and nothing else was just too tedious. Someday, another publisher may create a new modern-era subsim...but if so it will likely be a very independent team of niche developers who I am sure will do a great job, but for a very limited audience.



Other examples of games that should not exist according to your logic are "T-34 vs Tiger", "Steel Fury", "Jutland" and "Distant Guns", "Theatre of War" (the whole series), "Rise of Flight", "PT Boats: Knights of the Sea", "Storm of War: Battle of Britain" (which, interestingly, has been produced independently of Ubisoft who published the prior IL-2 series), "R-Factor", "Pacific Storm", and even "ARMA II" (developed independently after Codemasters took over control of the now-failed Operation Flashpoint 2).

MOST of the above are great games, written by dedicated teams of enthusiast gamers...NOT mega-publishers. The simple truth is that as long as there is a dedicated fan base that is large enough for which to develop a commercial title...there WILL be developers who will meet that demand. Sometimes those titles will also end up being the best ever developed, as can be evidenced by some of the titles listed above.


Do not sell the independent developer short. Often times, it is they who really drive the art that is our obsession.



.

[severniae]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.

I would like to petition the moderators of this forum, to lock down any more 'moan' topics and put the argument to rest permanently, or at least create just one thread for people to continue the discussion in a gentlemanly fashion and stop littering the forum with threads that seem to always turn into a pro/anti DRM/SH5 argument.

I feel that this forum is becoming more than a little ruined by the constant bickering about SH5, its DRM etc...

Its getting a little childish seeing people moaning at others because they bought SH5, and also seeing the people who bought it moaning at the people who won't because of the DRM, or other issues. We now know your feelings, whatever they are! Is there any need to keep going on about it? Why become so animated about the whole thing? If people have a problem, could they not just submit their complaint in writing to Ubisoft and have done with it?

We all know about the issues SH5 has, some people can get past that and get on with enjoying the game, others choose not to. That is fine! But can we, please, finally get past that and give it a rest. Its turning a really good forum that I want to be a part of into a flame-bin!

Many thanks,

Sev.

[Sailor Steve]

You're certainly entitled to your feelings, but do we really need yet another thread?

[Nisgeis]

I'm no lady.

[severniae]

The point i'm trying to make is. I'd like to ask the moderators to stop the nonsense before this forum turns into one big flame war. If people are actually fed up of the bickering, which from many of the threads I've read they seem to be, then they should register it, let the mods see it, and ask for something to be done about it. Thats all that I'm doing.

[ETR3(SS)]

Well you know, you have the option to either

A. place the person(s) making DRM/moaning threads and or posts on ignore

or

B. not read those threads. And if by some chance you find yourself in one of those threads you can always use your browsers "Back" button.

Point being here, you don't have to read those posts or threads about said topic.

[ERPP8]

DRM has mostly gone away, the buggyness took it's place

[ERPP8]

You're certainly entitled to your feelings, but do we really need yet another thread?
Not many people are apposing the new negativity

[Immacolata]

You're certainly entitled to your feelings, but do we really need yet another thread?

I defo think we need more submoronic "Wot I think"-threads. Especially those concerning the state of DRM, the state of Ubi or the state of SHV. More feelings, less talking about submarines!:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

The point i'm trying to make is. I'd like to ask the moderators to stop the nonsense before this forum turns into one big flame war. If people are actually fed up of the bickering, which from many of the threads I've read they seem to be, then they should register it, let the mods see it, and ask for something to be done about it. Thats all that I'm doing.
And nothing wrong with that. The moderators, and Neal, do keep a close eye on the forums, especially this one. They judge each thread by its own merits and decide what to lock and who to chastise based on their actual posts, not necessarily the subject. For the most part most of these have been fairly tame.

[Bilge_Rat]

was'nt Marx who wrote "History always repeats itself, first as a tragedy, next as a farce".

I think we are now in the Pythonesque phase of DRM discussions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

:salute:

[Nisgeis]

I defo think we need more submoronic "Wot I think"-threads. Especially those concerning the state of DRM, the state of Ubi or the state of SHV. More feelings, less talking about submarines!:salute:

No, no no... see this is what's really wrong with the forum.

We need MORE threads comparing SH5 to a car, in some way. The car can be broken down, or have no petrol (gas) or be incomplete in some way, just make sure that there is always at least one thread with a 'SH5 is like a (broken/rented/stolen/magic) car' theme in it.

I especially like the threads that are a poll about DRM, thinly disguised as a poll about something that isn't DRM e.g.

'I would have bought SH5, if it hadn't have been for the way that the DRM affected my tender feelings towards the manual'

or,

'I would have bought SH5, but the DRM affected the delicate magnetic compass in my head and I was unable to find my way to the shops to purchase it'

I especially like the threads that encourage people who haven't bought or played the game (not necessarily the same thing ;-) nudge, nudge, wink, wink) to offer up their own opinion, based on the 'facts' that they have read on the forum.

I personally would have bought SH5, but when I went to drive to the shop to buy it, it turned out that my car actually was a copy of SH5, which meant that I didn't need to buy it after all.

[goldorak]

The point i'm trying to make is. I'd like to ask the moderators to stop the nonsense before this forum turns into one big flame war. If people are actually fed up of the bickering, which from many of the threads I've read they seem to be, then they should register it, let the mods see it, and ask for something to be done about it. Thats all that I'm doing.


Oh please, lets not be overdramatic ok ?
The SH 5 section is not becoming one big flame war.
:03:

As long as the dicussions are civil, whats the problem ? People should learn to easy up, YOU enjoy SH 5 good for you. Some people don't and they have every right to express their views in a civil way. Just as many people express their enthusiasm about SH 5. Learn to avoid the threads you're not interested in.

[Iron Budokan]

Make a good game and it will be lauded and its praises sung to the stars.

Yeah. Sometimes it's really that simple. :O:

[Gabucino]

But SH5 is just a DRM simulator itself.

[John Channing]

>>"Where's Falcon 5?"

It's called "Lock-on: Modern Air Combat", "Flaming Cliffs", and now "DCS: Black Shark".


Do me a favor? Hop on over to the Falcon 4 forums and post that. But let me know when you are going to do it so I can be there to watch the fun :D!

And if you think that Dangerous Waters was a successor to the Harpoon Series then you never played Harpoon. Fleet Command... maybe, but it fell far, far short.


There are a couple of successors to Harpoon (Red Pill and Global Conflict Blue) but they both have a long way to go.

So where are the independent Sub-sim producers?

JCC


Fair warning... every time I see somone trot that "independant producers will fill the void" line out I intend to challenge them to supply just one name. Just one.

[TwistedFemur]

I would like to petition the moderators of this forum, to lock down any more 'moan' topics

"we must silence the opposition"
-Saul Alinsky

I suggest from now on authors should use

[Rant] for anti SH5 thread and [Rave] for a pro SH% thread in the title ie:
[Rant] SH5 sux

[Nisgeis]

"we must silence the opposition"
-Saul Alinsky

I can't find anything on the internet about that particular quotation of Saul Alinsky - is it a genuine quotation, or are you paraphrasing? It seems strange for there to be no results found for that particular search.

[Catfish]

But SH5 is just a DRM simulator itself.

Priceless :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

But then, especially in this discipline it is a bad one :D

Greetings,
Catfish

[Ducimus]

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/3400/original/MEH.jpg

[mookiemookie]

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/3400/original/MEH.jpg

That reminds me...

*fires up Mass Effect* :arrgh!:

[longdog499]

There is, I think, a definate 'dying on its feet' feel to this SH5 Forum. There is definately no buzz around here like there was for the first weeks of SH3 and even SH4. Sadly I think the poor quality of the game as it came out of the box coupled with the DRM issue has left us with a stillborn game that many people are simply not interested in.:nope:

[vonTorpitz]

I kinda have to agree with the OP. I started a thread called All We are Saying is Give SH5 a Chance which has become a slagfest for SH5 and DRM. Ironically I started the thread in order to hear comments from those of us who have faith that the game will improve, which it will. Actually its starting to get damn good.
I guess the DRM scheme has really gotten folks aggravated, I personally havent had any issues with it. Ive never been DC'd or had any problems logging on to SH5. I spent the money on a largely unfinished game, that should be the predominant gripe here, not DRM. We cant fix the DRM issue no matter how much we piss and moan about it, but we can fix the game... and its becoming clear that those who arent wasting their time with futile DRM complaints are doing just that. So thanks. And keep the faith. Patch 2 is on the way and things are beginning to progress rather nicely.

P.S. Once we get that damn " different weather after load game" bug ironed out Ill be really happy. Its gotten me sunk a few times.

[Webster]

i have said it a million times already,

just dont reply to them, when people stop entertaining the BS threads then people will go back to discussing the game itself and not the stuff surrounding the game such as UBI, DRM, and piracy or piracy protection methods.

the sad truth is that people would rather talk about this BS instead of returning to the true purpose of this forum which is to discuss the game and things related to it as far as it pertains to players.

we as modderators cant stop the conversation that is going on, only you the members can do that yourself. and i mean by not replying to those threads not by insulting those who post them.

this site prides itself on the reputation it has for allowing vast freedom to say whatever you want to within reason with little to no rules about it.

[bilgepump]

Make a good game and it will be lauded and its praises sung to the stars.

Yeah. Sometimes it's really that simple. :O:

With all due respect, Ubisoft didn't release a game, they released a platform with great graphics, and modding tools(bugs too, but they're working on that). If they went one way or the other(realism/FPS), they wouldn't sell as much in the long term IMHO.

I am convinced, that in a years time, this will be a great game for many different expectations, and in three years, that much more so.

[Sailor Steve]

Right now things are stagnating because development is in limbo. The modders are reluctant to do much more until the new patch is released.

Then the mods will take off again.

And the complaints.

And the praise.

And the arguments.:D

[vonTorpitz]

The reality is that the PC gaming industry is crippled and dieing.

As consoles become more competitive with pc's in their multi-functionality (eg. using a keyboard, mouse, internet, and hard drives) you can kiss your sweet gaming rig goodbye.

Im not so sure bout that. Consoles are for kiddie arcade gamers. I don't even own one. The PC has always been the bastion of refuge for those interested in something a little more serious, immersive and just plain grown up. And lets face it PC gamers are infinitely more well versed in script editing and all the other skills it takes to mod a game. There will always be a hardcore group of folks, such as here at Subsim, who simply wont settle for a console only world.
Its true PC gaming is at an all time low and long gone are the days when I could walk into an EB games and a whole wall of shelves was devoted to new PC releases. (might be a good thing, given the proliferation of crap there was, ie. mall tycoon, zoo tycoon, public restroom tycoon). Oh, and why do you suppose this is the current state of affairs? Hmmm, it might have something to do with internet piracy, do you think? Well, DRM is actually solving that issue in a round about way. I had to go out and buy this game because I couldnt download it off U-Torrent. Problem solved.
Its funny though because the very people who whine about the current state of affairs in the PC gaming world are usually also the same folks who slag DRM, the only effective fix to game piracy as yet put forward by anyone. And really, lets get down to brass tacks: internet piracy is the real enemy of the PC gaming world. Look at the bigger picture folks. Understand cause and effect.

[Rip]

I for one am anxiously awaiting the patch. I plan to cross-post an full campaign AAR here and at http://www.octopusoverlords.com

The first person approach has really gotten me into a writing/sharing mood.
:lurk:

[ENtek-IO]

blah, blah, blah...

yes, posters are free to keep posting exactly the same statement over and over and over again, but is'nt the definition of insanity to keep repeating the same action while expecting a different result? :ping:

You should look into the mirror once in a while.

[vonTorpitz]

I for one am anxiously awaiting the patch. I plan to cross-post an full campaign AAR here and at http://www.octopusoverlords.com

The first person approach has really gotten me into a writing/sharing mood.
:lurk:
Im with ya man, its this kind of enthusiasm that makes me smile:rock:

[Bilge_Rat]

You should look into the mirror once in a while.

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/not_a_yahtzee_by_humon.jpg


:ping:

[Jimbuna]

Time for some popcorn me thinks.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6942/popcorncowtx0.gif

[Fincuan]

Time for some popcorn me thinks.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6942/popcorncowtx0.gif

It's much easier to just use the list. That way the all important popcorn is saved for better uses :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

It's much easier to just use the list. That way the all important popcorn is saved for better uses :yeah:

You just might have a point :DL

[Placoderm]

Do me a favor? Hop on over to the Falcon 4 forums and post that. But let me know when you are going to do it so I can be there to watch the fun :D!

And if you think that Dangerous Waters was a successor to the Harpoon Series then you never played Harpoon. Fleet Command... maybe, but it fell far, far short.


There are a couple of successors to Harpoon (Red Pill and Global Conflict Blue) but they both have a long way to go.

So where are the independent Sub-sim producers?

JCC


Fair warning... every time I see somone trot that "independant producers will fill the void" line out I intend to challenge them to supply just one name. Just one.


>>"Do me a favor? Hop on over to the Falcon 4 forums and post that."

Why would I bother? It would be the cyber-equivalent of standing on the bowsprit at Flank Speed and relieving my bladder. Not only was the falcon series produced by an independant, private, and dedicated group of programmers (Specrtun Holobyte), but Falcon 4 is what it is now due only to years of extensive modding. Unless you (or they) expect a brand new F16 block c simulator that is more accurate...(which would be nearly impossible to accomplish for even the most heavily-funded studio)...it just ain't gonna happen for a while, as the original fits the current market quite nicely in it's current state. On the other hand, unless it IS that F16 alone that you are wishing for, LockOn was a very high-quality release that also had a high-fidelity model yet a different interpretation of how to present it. DCS:Black Shark is far, far beyond the fidelity and accuracy of any version of Falcon 4, and the upcoming DCS:A-10 (based on the original LOMAC) is no less stunning and again far beyond anything that came before. Someday, the Falcon forums can look forward to a new F16-only study simulation if that is what they want, but they will be waiting until the right developer comes along and the market can support it. It will happen, but not if people continue to to support half-finished arcade games.

>>"And if you think that Dangerous Waters was a successor to the Harpoon Series then you never played Harpoon"

If you are waiting for a direct, sequential replacement for a title, then you will never get one. Any independent developer is going to make their own interpretation of that they want to present. It would be foolish and juvenile to try to make a direct successor to any other developers' prior program. That is like making a paper mache statue of an old girlfriend, instead of just finding a new girlfriend. Also, Dangerous Waters was made by the same folks who made Fleet Command and is a newer title, which is why I chose it instead.

>>"every time I see somone trot that "independant producers will fill the void" line out I intend to challenge them to supply just one name. Just one"

Combat Mission was an independant developers answer to Microsoft's Close Combat series. Combat Mission also eventually gave rise to the Theatre of War series. I seriously doubt that anyone who has played Theatre of War:Kursk 1943 would ever again even consider going back to Microsoft Close Combat in any form.

Have patience, grasshopper...Computer Gaming is still in it's infancy, for better or for worse.

[ENtek-IO]

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/not_a_yahtzee_by_humon.jpg


:ping:


WOw , is it possible that you just pulled a nation card out of your sleeve?

Bad style imho

[KL-alfman]

WOw , is it possible that you just pulled a nation card out of your sleeve?

Bad style imho



no worries, mate.
this post disqualifies by itself.
and the poster too.

[Stealth Hunter]

I lol'd, Rat.:up:

[mcarlsonus]

Seeing Baron vonTorpitz post earlier in this thread reminded me I started a post respectfully disagreeing with him in, "All We Are Saying..." and then thought, "hmmmm...this thread's tedious enough!" - and canned the idea (but I do STILL think that when the smoke clears, PC owners will be relegated to playing intentionally bandwidth-limited Scrabble, Trivial Pursuit, Wheel of Fortune, etc., on free or ad-supported sites and console owners'll get all the good stuff!)

"we must silence the opposition" is NOT an Alinsky quote! "Nisgeis" is right! Compliments of Bernard, here is an actual Alinsky quote: “Last guys don't finish nice.”

As far as, "opposition," I will not be silenced and remain...yr obdnt svnt...

[John Channing]

>>"Do me a favor? Hop on over to the Falcon 4 forums and post that."

Why would I bother? It would be the cyber-equivalent of standing on the bowsprit at Flank Speed and relieving my bladder. Not only was the falcon series produced by an independant, private, and dedicated group of programmers (Specrtun Holobyte), but Falcon 4 is what it is now due only to years of extensive modding. Unless you (or they) expect a brand new F16 block c simulator that is more accurate...(which would be nearly impossible to accomplish for even the most heavily-funded studio)...it just ain't gonna happen for a while, as the original fits the current market quite nicely in it's current state. On the other hand, unless it IS that F16 alone that you are wishing for, LockOn was a very high-quality release that also had a high-fidelity model yet a different interpretation of how to present it. DCS:Black Shark is far, far beyond the fidelity and accuracy of any version of Falcon 4, and the upcoming DCS:A-10 (based on the original LOMAC) is no less stunning and again far beyond anything that came before. Someday, the Falcon forums can look forward to a new F16-only study simulation if that is what they want, but they will be waiting until the right developer comes along and the market can support it. It will happen, but not if people continue to to support half-finished arcade games.

>>"And if you think that Dangerous Waters was a successor to the Harpoon Series then you never played Harpoon"

If you are waiting for a direct, sequential replacement for a title, then you will never get one. Any independent developer is going to make their own interpretation of that they want to present. It would be foolish and juvenile to try to make a direct successor to any other developers' prior program. That is like making a paper mache statue of an old girlfriend, instead of just finding a new girlfriend. Also, Dangerous Waters was made by the same folks who made Fleet Command and is a newer title, which is why I chose it instead.

>>"every time I see somone trot that "independant producers will fill the void" line out I intend to challenge them to supply just one name. Just one"

Combat Mission was an independant developers answer to Microsoft's Close Combat series. Combat Mission also eventually gave rise to the Theatre of War series. I seriously doubt that anyone who has played Theatre of War:Kursk 1943 would ever again even consider going back to Microsoft Close Combat in any form.

Have patience, grasshopper...Computer Gaming is still in it's infancy, for better or for worse.

So, Great Master, allow me if you will to ask again the part of the question that your magnificent revelations seemed to overlook.

Where are the independent Sub-sim producers? What is the name?

Maybe they are all having a drink with East? Or Jamie? Or Carl?

JCC

[Buddahaid]

>>"Where's Falcon 5?"

It's called "Lock-on: Modern Air Combat", "Flaming Cliffs", and now "DCS: Black Shark".

>>"Where's Harpoon 4?

"Dangerous Waters" likely filled that position, although the games genre is even more limited than that for Silent Hunter. Unfortunately, many who love submarine games just can't seem to get into modern submarine warfare due to it's need for super stealth and dependance on fire-and-forget weapons. It takes a very, very unique kind of sub-simmer to enjoy a game where there are no deck guns and if you wish to survive for any length of time you should avoid ever using your periscope. To me, following wire-mesh seafloor contours was fun for a while, as was hearing whales on the hydrophones...but spending my entire war career hiding under multiple thermal layers and staring endlessly at electronic readouts and nothing else was just too tedious. Someday, another publisher may create a new modern-era subsim...but if so it will likely be a very independent team of niche developers who I am sure will do a great job, but for a very limited audience.



Other examples of games that should not exist according to your logic are "T-34 vs Tiger", "Steel Fury", "Jutland" and "Distant Guns", "Theatre of War" (the whole series), "Rise of Flight", "PT Boats: Knights of the Sea", "Storm of War: Battle of Britain" (which, interestingly, has been produced independently of Ubisoft who published the prior IL-2 series), "R-Factor", "Pacific Storm", and even "ARMA II" (developed independently after Codemasters took over control of the now-failed Operation Flashpoint 2).

MOST of the above are great games, written by dedicated teams of enthusiast gamers...NOT mega-publishers. The simple truth is that as long as there is a dedicated fan base that is large enough for which to develop a commercial title...there WILL be developers who will meet that demand. Sometimes those titles will also end up being the best ever developed, as can be evidenced by some of the titles listed above.


Do not sell the independent developer short. Often times, it is they who really drive the art that is our obsession.
.

"Rise of Flight" required a constant internet connection, and still does for full content. They also charge for add on aircraft making this sim 2-3 times as expensive as SH5.

What they do right is listen to the users and fix bugs etc.


EDIT: "Jutland" and "Distant Guns" have also been bashed by some and were more expensive.

[Bilge_Rat]

WOw , is it possible that you just pulled a nation card out of your sleeve?

Bad style imho

you started the personal attack mate, that type of behavior is frowned upon here. :nope:

of course, if trolling is all you bring to the discussion, it won't be much of a fight. It does not look like you are able to stitch together a coherent argument. :rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Dutch]

SH3 and SH4 with O:M are more fun to me than anything I have heard about SH5.

Why in 3 and 4 you have a dynamic campaign, no matter how much to try and cover it 5 does not. Since when did U-boats specifically hunt Warships? That goes against the entire German doctrine during the War in the Atlantic. So because you have to "hunt" warships, you have to "ignore" convoys. Defeats the whole purpose if you ask me.

In 3 and 4 you fight from 39-45 not 43 as in 5. That is just screaming for them to make you buy a DLC to finish the war "game". That is absolutely pitiful.

The only thing 5 has "going" for it is the walking around in FPS like Call of Duty. About which I have heard that after a few times it gets to be as much fun as pulling teeth.

Lastly 5 as apparent bugs and issues all of which break the apparent immersion of the feature I previously talked about, so it in and of itself is almost a mute point.

Pointing out all of those things wrong with 5 I didn't even mention DRM. I am not spending any money on something that hurts the legitimate paying customer more than the pirates.

Once UBI or the pirates patch out DRM and I stumble across it in the $10 bargain bin I might buy it. Till then I will lurk the forums.

[theluckyone17]

The customer goes to the train station.

He addresses a man standing behind a desk marked "Complaints".

C: I wish to complain, British-Railways Person.

Attendant: I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS JOB, YOU KNOW!!!

C: I beg your pardon...?

A: I'm a qualified brain surgeon! I only do this job because I like being my own boss!

C: Excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?

A: Yeah, well it's not easy to pad these python files out to 200 lines, you know.

C: Well, I wish to complain. I got on the Bolton train and found myself deposited here in Ipswitch.

A: No, this is Bolton.

C: (to the camera) The pet shop man's brother was lying!!

A: Can't blame British Rail for that.

C: In that case, I shall return to the pet shop!

It ain't got a car in it, but it's got a train. Is that close enough? Not sure I'd want a car in my SH5 discussion... be too likely that I'd think about SH5 the next time I drive down the highway. That wouldn't be good... next thing you know, I'd be wanting to put a torpedo into that fellow that cut me off :arrgh!:

[ENtek-IO]

"you started the personal attack mate, that type of behavior is frowned upon here. :nope:"

When? You mean telling you to look in the mirror once in a while responding to a post like yours ,is a personal attack?,..... Well if you say so,...:06:!



"of course, if trolling is all you bring to the discussion, it won't be much of a fight. It does not look like you are able to stitch together a coherent argument. :rotfl2::rotfl2:"

ahem,.. OK :sunny: Oh, and don't feel personal attacked..hmmpf.

[vonTorpitz]

Now now kids, play nice.:timeout:

[Placoderm]

"Rise of Flight" required a constant internet connection, and still does for full content. They also charge for add on aircraft making this sim 2-3 times as expensive as SH5.

What they do right is listen to the users and fix bugs etc.


EDIT: "Jutland" and "Distant Guns" have also been bashed by some and were more expensive.


I was simply listing examples of quality software produced by small, independent publishers. I bought Rise of Flight the day it was released both to support the developer as well as show support for the genre, but never installed it specifically due to the DRM (which I think has been softened since then, so someday maybe I will give it a go).

As for Distant Guns and Jutland, there will always be some who bash virtually any game, regardless of the developer. I have some issues with Storm Eagle Studios as well ...for things such as their pricing structure, the lack of any hard goods (download only), and their abuse of my e-mail trust ( they are one of my biggest e-mail spammers with their constant "limited time sale!" spams). Nonetheless, I applaud the efforts of their coding and creativity in producing non-mainstream titles. The point remains that they are an independent producer/publisher who is doing well with a niche market.

Rise of Flight is a good example, though, of how patience can pay off. Prior to it's release there had not been a commercially published WWI flight sim for over a decade (the last one that I can think of is Red Baron 3D), but when the market was ready, an independant publisher stepped up and met the need. They also did this while Over Flanders Field was a free mod to CFS, and a darn good sim at that...so they took a double chance, and it appears that they have done well with it.


:salute:

[Bilge_Rat]

When? You mean telling you to look in the mirror once in a while responding to a post like yours ,is a personal attack?,..... Well if you say so,...:06:!




ahem,.. OK :sunny: Oh, and don't feel personal attacked..hmmpf.

apology accepted :arrgh!:

and I have the greatest respect for the German people, notwithstanding my juvenile attempt at humour. Humble apologies all around if anyone was offended by the cartoon... (although it was funny :ping:)


as is this one (might as well get everyone on my back :ping:):

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/world_view_by_humon.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.

I would like to petition the moderators of this forum, to lock down any more 'moan' topics and put the argument to rest permanently, or at least create just one thread for people to continue the discussion in a gentlemanly fashion and stop littering the forum with threads that seem to always turn into a pro/anti DRM/SH5 argument.

I feel that this forum is becoming more than a little ruined by the constant bickering about SH5, its DRM etc...

Its getting a little childish seeing people moaning at others because they bought SH5, and also seeing the people who bought it moaning at the people who won't because of the DRM, or other issues. We now know your feelings, whatever they are! Is there any need to keep going on about it? Why become so animated about the whole thing? If people have a problem, could they not just submit their complaint in writing to Ubisoft and have done with it?

We all know about the issues SH5 has, some people can get past that and get on with enjoying the game, others choose not to. That is fine! But can we, please, finally get past that and give it a rest. Its turning a really good forum that I want to be a part of into a flame-bin!

Many thanks,

Sev.

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over. :damn:

I have gotten a lot of PMs and email from people who feel the same as you. People who are getting some enjoyment out of a flawed game are getting sick of trolls and griefers.


However, what can we do about it? It's pretty hard to weed out people who post simply to add more grief to an already miserable situation. You can place them on your ignore list. You can report them if they are topic spamming--this is a forum for SH5, not DRM philosphies or game flaming-- and a moderator can roll their post into an existing grief thread. If they get enough complaints against them, we can deny their access to this forum. Any other ideas are welcome.


Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.

[vonTorpitz]

I wholeheartedly agree Neal. Its all rather counterproductive.:damn:

[mookiemookie]

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over. :damn:

I have gotten a lot of PMs and email from people who feel the same as you. People who are getting some enjoyment out of a flawed game are getting sick of trolls and griefers.


However, what can we do about it? It's pretty hard to weed out people who post simply to add more grief to an already miserable situation. You can place them on your ignore list. You can report them if they are topic spamming--this is a forum for SH5, not DRM philosphies or game flaming-- and a moderator can roll their post into an existing grief thread. If they get enough complaints against them, we can deny their access to this forum. Any other ideas are welcome.


Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

[Reece]

OSP/DRM sucks big time!:nope: The many bugs in SH5 sucks!:nope: UBI sucks for releasing it in this state!:nope:
Don't you folks agree?:hmmm:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

PS. A little fun is good for the heart!!:yep:

[mcarlsonus]

"UBI sucks for releasing it in this state!:nope:
Don't you folks agree?:hmmm:"

Yes I agree, Reece, but as said in the old comic strip, Pogo, "We have met the enemy and they are us!" In terms of the amount of effort - or lack of same - Ubi obviously put into the primary SH5 development effort that resulted in the version on the market today, one can reasonably conclude that after years of witnessing mods make their previous attempts more usable, stable, and enjoyable, Ubi adopted the attitude that they could feel free to charge money for incomplete efforts and expect their, "unpaid talent," a.k.a., "modders," to take over the task of primary development as well. Must be a valid business plan because throughout this venue, one can witness numerous references to, "let the modders make it the game it should have been in the first place!"

Keep on spending your hard-earned dinero and drinking the Kool-Aid, O ye of diminished expectations!

[Kresge]

Man, if I could rent a magic broken car....:D

It would be nice if people had enough common sense not keep starting new anti-DRM threads and just discuss the issue in the pile that are already here. But hey, it's the new internet style.

[Heretic]

The constant attacks and negativity has done more to sap my enthusiasm then any actual problems with the game. Why bother modding a game that so many people are actively trying to kill? I really should just stay away from this side of the forum.

[Placoderm]

So, Great Master, allow me if you will to ask again the part of the question that your magnificent revelations seemed to overlook.

Where are the independent Sub-sim producers? What is the name?

Maybe they are all having a drink with East? Or Jamie? Or Carl?

JCC


Great Master? :hmmm: Hmmm, I like that! Thank you!!:up: ...And henceforth, you may be my affectionate Little Grasshopper!

:o

As for the independent Sub-sim producers...we do not need any right now. We really don't. There is no current shortage of submarine simulations, as is evidenced by the still highly popular SH3 and SH4. How many submarine simulations do you need anyway?

Should we all hold our collective breaths and pout until we get some guarantee that we will get a new sub-sim every couple of years? Perhaps it is this very expectation that has led to the demise of the study simulation. Why is it that you feel it is imperitave that someone else be working on something right now, for fear of never seeing a future sub-sim ever.

I got my first Nintendo Entertainment System for one thing: a simple game called Silent Service. That came out four years after I got essentially the same game for IBM PC in '85...except it had about 4 additional colors. At the time, it was cutting-edge software...far surpassing my PT109 on my Amiga or Tandy or Chinese Abacus or whatever I was using before. It was YEARS before another game came along, and up until that time, I was happy. Ubisoft did not even exist at that time...and did I care? No! because I did not have a time machine to tell me that down the pike would be greats like Aces of the Deep, Silent Service II, Das Boot, Great Naval Battles, and some obscure subsim by an upstart company that nobody had ever heard of called Aeon Electronic Entertainment and published by a company that no longer exists called Strategic Simulations (SSI). That subsim was Silent Hunter, and at the time the great and powerful OZ that we refer to as Ubisoft was little more than a distribution warehouse in France with no products of its own.


Who is to say what upstart company is waiting out there to make the next generation of sub simulations? Perhaps the future CEO is starting high school next year...or maybe he is learning his ABC's. Maybe he is a retired sailor who is attending his fathers funeral next week...a father who served on a fleetboat or planted a seed of honor on his son that may someday grow into the simulation that we all wish for. All unlikely, but the point is that we do not know any more than I knew about SH3 or GWX back in 1985 and 1989.





Patience, my little grasshopper, patience...


SH3 and SH4 have many years left in them, as may SH5 if all works out. What happens after that is anyones guess, but history has shown that it will be likely better than anything before if done by a new and motivated publisher/developer, and likely it will be very very different than what you or I can even imagine right now.



:salute:

[mcarlsonus]

The constant attacks and negativity has done more to sap my enthusiasm then any actual problems with the game. Why bother modding a game that so many people are actively trying to kill? I really should just stay away from this side of the forum.

or, conversely, why bother modding a game when said, "modding" includes the manufacturer's expectation that you do the, "grunt work" for free while THEY charge YOU money for the privilege?

You should be feeling a bit, "USED" at this juncture as it certainly appears SH5, as opposed to SH3 or 4, represents a sea-change (if a pun, then intended) in Ubi's attitude toward the Subsim Community and the talented modders who do so much for nothing more than the Community's appreciation, respect, and accolades. Note use of the term, "Subsim Community," as that's key! I have NOT included Ubi as a part of this Community as it appears they see modders as nothing more than unpaid volunteer labor whom they are more than willing to exploit - while, as mentioned, they continue to charge US money for THEIR lack of effort!

Metaphorically: As soon as you send ME money for the purchase of parts and send ME even MORE money for installation of those parts necessary to fix your broken Ubi car, I'll be more than happy to come over and watch YOU buy the parts (but I'll keep the money you sent me earlier) and promise to enjoy watching YOU installing same (but, again, I'll keep the money you sent me earlier). And, of course, I won't say, "thank you" for the bucks nor the afternoon's entertainment...

[Webster]

or, conversely, why bother modding a game...


the same logic applies to dating,

why buy dinner and drinks and get all dressed up unless you get a commitment in advance that you will get great sex?

you do things in the "hope" that in the end the eventual reward will be as good as you hoped for.

you mod the game in the "hope" that you can make it much better then it is on its own.

sometimes the sex is worth it but sometimes it isnt but you still keep on trying dont you?

well sometimes the game becomes great if modded enough and thats why we keep modding games that to be honest are stinkers as released but they are still all we have so its this or nothing.

only when you have some other choice can you have any real say in product developement by giving the better company your purchase. if there is no competition then you really have no voice that will be listened to and protests will only achieve the ending of support for a game they dont think enough of to put more effort into it then they did.

thats pretty much how it is and i dont like it either but if you take the emotion out of it you can see im not taking sides here but just trying to lay it out there in plain english that it is what it is, take it or leave it.

[IanC]

Good points Placoderm. People need to get a little perspective, Ubisoft is not the end-all be-all of subsims.

[vonTorpitz]

Who is to say what upstart company is waiting out there to make the next generation of sub simulations? Perhaps the future CEO is starting high school next year...or maybe he is learning his ABC's. Maybe he is a retired sailor who is attending his fathers funeral next week...a father who served on a fleetboat or planted a seed of honor on his son that may someday grow into the simulation that we all wish for.


Maybe, he/she is reading this thread right now.:hmmm:

[mookiemookie]

or, conversely, why bother modding a game when said, "modding" includes the manufacturer's expectation that you do the, "grunt work" for free while THEY charge YOU money for the privilege?

Because some people have fun with the game and want to mod out of a sense of wanting to have even more fun with it, rather than some sense of duty.

I agree with Heretic. Some people need to get over themselves. It's a goddam computer game, not some moralistic last stand of consumer freedom. :roll:

[NefariousKoel]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.



This is easy to fix.

Don't read them.

[IanC]

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over. :damn:


We have to own the game, in order to express our displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5? :doh:
Neal as the owner of this forum I think it's important to understand the point of view of the posters who don't have the game, but still want to voice their disappointment. In fact, it's their disappointment that is the reason why they don't own the game to begin with!
If SH5 was a good game, the forums would be full of (mostly) positive threads. But instead we get what we have now. I don't think anybody is happy with the situation. If I had a magic wand, believe me I'd want SH5 to be the next Aces of the Deep or an improved SH3... *daydreams*

[NefariousKoel]

I agree with Heretic. Some people need to get over themselves. It's a goddam computer game, not some moralistic last stand of consumer freedom. :roll:


That's exactly what it is. Standing up against poor companies using poor policies aimed directly at us, the consumer. It's not the first to be boycotted for similar nonsense.

Whining about our whining hardly gives you any moral high ground, either.

[Onkel Neal]

We have to own the game, in order to express our displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5? :doh:
Neal as the owner of this forum I think it's important to understand the point of view of the posters who don't have the game, but still want to voice their disappointment. In fact, it's their disappointment that is the reason why they don't own the game to begin with!
If SH5 was a good game, the forums would be full of (mostly) positive threads. But instead we get what we have now. I don't think anybody is happy with the situation. If I had a magic wand, believe me I'd want SH5 to be the next Aces of the Deep or an improved SH3... *daydreams*

No, you have to own the game, in order to express your displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5, but the displeasure has been exoressed and voiced, way past the point of being productive, don't you think? :)

That's exactly what it is. Standing up against poor companies using poor policies aimed directly at us, the consumer. It's not the first to be boycotted for similar nonsense.

Whining about our whining hardly gives you any moral high ground, either.

No one is looking for moral ground, looking for a place to discuss the game in good company without the same constant negativity. If we were at a party and there were a few guys always shouting and yelling about how much they hate the music, christ, kick them into the pool.

[Onkel Neal]

Great Master? :hmmm: Hmmm, I like that! Thank you!!:up: ...And henceforth, you may be my affectionate Little Grasshopper!

:o

As for the independent Sub-sim producers...we do not need any right now. We really don't. There is no current shortage of submarine simulations, as is evidenced by the still highly popular SH3 and SH4. How many submarine simulations do you need anyway?



Speak for yourself, mate. That's your opinion, I would be quite happy with a new subsim every year.

[IanC]

No, you have to own the game, in order to express your displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5, but the displeasure has been exoressed and voiced, way past the point of being productive, don't you think? :)

Meh, human nature. It can be a bummer sometimes I agree.

If we were at a party and there were a few guys always shouting and yelling about how much they hate the music, christ, kick them into the pool.

:haha:
Hmm... is it a few guys only?

[mcarlsonus]

the same logic applies to dating,

why buy dinner and drinks and get all dressed up unless you get a commitment in advance that you will get great sex?

you mod the game in the "hope" that you can make it much better then it is on its own.

well sometimes the game becomes great if modded enough and thats why we keep modding games that to be honest are stinkers as released but they are still all we have so its this or nothing.

EEK! "Why buy dinner and drinks...hope you will get great sex?"
WOW - there's a sexist comment and one typically heard out of pubescent males who tend to spend a LOT of time alone...in mom and dad's basement...playing WoW and/or Dante's Inferno, and did I mention, "ALONE?"

"...you mod the game in the "hope" that you can make it much better then it is on its own."
Couldn't agree more, but, as mentioned in my post you referred to, the question is when does modding become a way for the manufacturer/developer to shirk its primary duty to us, the paying public, by making US pay for the BETA VERSION and expecting UNPAID MODDERS to, again, "DO THE GRUNT WORK (a.k.a, "primary software development/debugging")?" Both SH3 and SH4 had significant problems as well, but at least the basic functionality was intact. In SH5, we have blind destroyers, aircraft that won't attack, ships running headlong into seawalls and/or attempting to cruise on land, merchants that are FAR more dangerous than anti-sub military units, ad infinitum! THIS PRODUCT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE MARKET WITH THESE SHORTCOMINGS! I can only conclude Ubi's developed a VERY cavalier attitude towards those of us who've supported their sub sims through their various iterations.

[karamazovnew]

EEK! "Why buy dinner and drinks...hope you will get great sex?"
WOW - there's a sexist comment and one typically heard out of pubescent males who tend to spend a LOT of time alone...in mom and dad's basement...playing WoW and/or Dante's Inferno, and did I mention, "ALONE?"

MEH...

Anyway, the patch 1.2 patch is just around the corner. The "bugs" section should thin out, hopefully.

[kylania]

THIS PRODUCT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE MARKET WITH THESE SHORTCOMINGS!

Yet it was, get over it all ready. :yawn:

The main functions will be fixed next week, hopefully every post from you won't be some crazy modders oppression rant after that, but I doubt it.

[mcarlsonus]

Because some people have fun with the game and want to mod out of a sense of wanting to have even more fun with it, rather than some sense of duty.

I agree with Heretic. Some people need to get over themselves. It's a goddam computer game, not some moralistic last stand of consumer freedom. :roll:

Mookie, you and I have been down this road together in the past. ONE MORE TIME: there is NOTHING inherently wrong with modding as a way to enhance the game! MY objection is that judging from the dismal state of this release, it appears Ubi is EXPECTING modders - who, I remind you, are UNPAID, VOLUNTEER labor - to make it playable! There IS a difference between modding for enhancement and what I'm calling, "grunt work!" Building in BASIC FUNCTIONALITY - NOT enhancing the gaming experience - is, "GRUNT WORK!" "Grunt Work" should be performed BEFORE the product goes to market!

Yet another metaphor: let's say you buy Microsoft Excel - the brand-spanking-new-just-put-on-the-market 2011 Edition. After installing it, you find it's incapable of even doing multiplication. You call Microsoft and ask, "How can you call this a spreadsheet program if it can't even do simple math?" Microsoft responds, "Oh, we're aware it can't multiply anything, but you'll figure it out...And, by the way, thank you for your money!"

[Reece]

Quoted in another thread:
Neal Stevens said:
We already have many threads to express disatisfaction over the copy protection.That statement is in error, most of us are not against copy protection but against being online for a single player game! (OSP/DRM) there are many ways to copy protect but this method is not for copy protection, more to stop reselling the games and power control!:nope:

[mcarlsonus]

MEH...

Anyway, the patch 1.2 patch is just around the corner. The "bugs" section should thin out, hopefully.

My friend, we all lived through four patches with SH4 - five, if one counts the, "optional at extra cost" U-Boat add-on - and for many people, SH4 remained unreliable, sluggish, and prone to, "blue screen of death" problems until the end...

Patches help, but, as evidenced above...(I rest this particular case!)

[mcarlsonus]

That statement is in error, most of us are not against copy protection but against being online for a single player game! (OSP/DRM) there are many ways to copy protect but this method is not for copy protection, more to stop reselling the games and power control!:nope:

And, furthermore, and while I'm on my soapbox, this, "always online" raises privacy concerns for me! Is Ubi also gathering information by forcing me to be online with them everytime I use their product? Will I soon be barraged by targeted ads hitting my email In-Box?

Will Webster get a date who'll put out without his having to incur the expense of dinner and a movie and, if so...

[mcarlsonus]

Yet it was, get over it all ready. :yawn:

The main functions will be fixed next week, hopefully every post from you won't be some crazy modders oppression rant after that, but I doubt it.

First, see previous post re: previous experience with Ubi's patches. I suspect from your comment you've never owned a Ubi package prior to SH5.

"...crazy modders oppression rant...?" I suggest you carefully read and attempt to COMPREHEND my posts prior to commenting on stuff I've posted! I've never said ANYTHING regarding, "oppressing" modders! I appreciate them greatly and without them, I wouldn't have experienced so many enjoyable hours with SH3 and (to a lesser extent) SH4.

What I AM against is a company who expects unpaid labor to pick up the slack while they collect your money for unfinished products. I SUPPORT Subsim modders and don't want to see them get, "used and abused" by some entity willing to take advantage of their good nature, proven competence, and selfless attitude - UNLESS, of course, that company's willing to compensate them for doing development/debugging work, referred to previously as, "grunt work!"

"Modder oppression" indeed...

[Adriatico]

It is pathetic game from the day one:

Simulation community should swallow arcade RPG, DRM, 40% finished product, boring campaign, support the brand with they money...etc.

...and Ubi ?

What steps UBi displayed so far or announced as next ?

For mutual "love and support" - it takes two sides...

Ubi made a commercial product for mass-gaming instead of simulation... OK. Fair enaugh - so enjoy your sales results...

***
You don't have to serve sim community... but please show some respect to people who kept SH brand for ten years.

[Placoderm]

Speak for yourself, mate. That's your opinion, I would be quite happy with a new subsim every year.

My opinions are always only my own, Neal. My wife reminds me of that constantly...

And I, too, would be quite happy with a new subsim every year (as I would a new Ferarri, a new airplane, or a new house up in the Rockies), but I am also realistic enough to know that it probably won't happen...and so I am happy with what I do have now in SH3 and SH4. SH5 is gorgeous and fresh and inviting...but, much like dating a beautiful and sexy young woman with cronic flatulence, I am drawn to her but just cannot bear to spend much time alone with her.

Thankfully, that too is just my own opinion...:D




:salute:

[robbo180265]

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over. :damn:

I have gotten a lot of PMs and email from people who feel the same as you. People who are getting some enjoyment out of a flawed game are getting sick of trolls and griefers.


However, what can we do about it? It's pretty hard to weed out people who post simply to add more grief to an already miserable situation. You can place them on your ignore list. You can report them if they are topic spamming--this is a forum for SH5, not DRM philosphies or game flaming-- and a moderator can roll their post into an existing grief thread. If they get enough complaints against them, we can deny their access to this forum. Any other ideas are welcome.


Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.

Excellent post Neal - well written, sums up exactly the way I feel about the whole situation at the moment.

Then I read on and saw that it had done nothing, the trolling continued.....

*sigh*

[Immacolata]

Mookie, you and I have been down this road together in the past. ONE MORE TIME: there is NOTHING inherently wrong with modding as a way to enhance the game! MY objection is that judging from the dismal state of this release, it appears Ubi is EXPECTING modders - who, I remind you, are UNPAID, VOLUNTEER labor - to make it playable! There IS a difference between modding for enhancement and what I'm calling, "grunt work!" Building in BASIC FUNCTIONALITY - NOT enhancing the gaming experience - is, "GRUNT WORK!" "Grunt Work" should be performed BEFORE the product goes to market!

Take a look at GSC who makes the STALKER games. Their iterations are improving. Shadow of Chernobyl was abysmal. Clear Skies were not unflawed but better working from the start.
Call of Pripyat is pretty much spot on from release. Both CS and SoC saw extensive modding, ie "fixing" alongside "flavouring".

I expect CoP will see "flavouring" only.
GSC develops the same way as UBI romania probably. Iterating over a base (SH3 in UBis case, SoC in GSC's case). But their ambitions differ enormously, because where GSC seems to get their act together and improve measurably, Ubi seems to add new problems with new ideas constantly. Or they just not very skilled at critical bits in the Ubi camp, that being project management, financial, making realistic planning, having clever programmers or designers. Who really knows what goes on behind the curtains.
Well, right now, bug fixing: I am so much anticipating that patch and the reactions. High hopes, high hopes!
THIS is how you should release games.

[mcarlsonus]

Don't like it, don't read it!

QED

[thyro]

No, no no... see this is what's really wrong with the forum.

We need MORE threads comparing SH5 to a car, in some way. The car can be broken down, or have no petrol (gas) or be incomplete in some way, just make sure that there is always at least one thread with a 'SH5 is like a (broken/rented/stolen/magic) car' theme in it.

I especially like the threads that are a poll about DRM, thinly disguised as a poll about something that isn't DRM e.g.

'I would have bought SH5, if it hadn't have been for the way that the DRM affected my tender feelings towards the manual'

or,

'I would have bought SH5, but the DRM affected the delicate magnetic compass in my head and I was unable to find my way to the shops to purchase it'

I especially like the threads that encourage people who haven't bought or played the game (not necessarily the same thing ;-) nudge, nudge, wink, wink) to offer up their own opinion, based on the 'facts' that they have read on the forum.

I personally would have bought SH5, but when I went to drive to the shop to buy it, it turned out that my car actually was a copy of SH5, which meant that I didn't need to buy it after all.


SH5 is like a good looking Ferrari with a broken Mini engine... so its all about chassi and fancy paintwork but dies when you switch on the engine :woot:

[Pumpkin]

:yawn:

[severniae]

Excellent post Neal - well written, sums up exactly the way I feel about the whole situation at the moment.

Then I read on and saw that it had done nothing, the trolling continued.....

*sigh*

Exactly my feelings!

I started this topic with the intent of discussing and (with a far off glimmer of hope) ending the constant trashing that seems to go on in almost every thread that happens to mention some plus points of SH5. I never at any point tried to initiate yet another discussion about the 'unfinished game' or its DRM. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought that there were already more than enough threads discussing that very same thing.

Is there really any need to post all this negativity and trashing whenever given the slightest opportunity (or even when there is no opportunity, just throwing in your feelings anyway!)

I, like a lot of others on this forum, would actually like to discuss the good points of this game in a positive constructive manner. Without someone hijacking the thread almost immediately with 'how dare they release this game and expect modders to finish it' or 'I'm not buying it until DRM is removed!'

Neal made a very good point. If you really don't agree with SH5 then that's fine. The SH3/4 areas are also still very active and are a good place to discuss the games that you do actually like or agree with! Please stop trolling this area!

[robbo180265]

Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.





Don't like it, don't read it!

QED


*sigh*

[Nordmann]

Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Quite right Neal, and well put. Why frequent the board for a game you neither like, nor intend to buy? It is a strange logic, and one which appears to be quite common these days.

Really, how many more times do we have to hear about the DRM boycott? There is such a thing as flogging a dead horse, and this would definitely be it. We all know about the net requirement, and we all know where people stand, how terrible it is, blah, blah, blah. Point made, no need to flog it any more. It's here, and it looks like it's here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. You may not like it, but there's no need to repeat what was said months ago, over and over again.

This forum should be for the discussion of the game, not it's associated anti-piracy measures. I believe the Ubi forums are the best place for such rants.

[Zedi]

I agree with all this, but we sail in more calm waters than those on Ubi forums. It's funny to see people actually registering there only to let those people know that they will not buy SH5 because of drm and how much they enjoy SH3. And they keep repeating this day by day no matter what :haha:

[robbo180265]

I agree with all this, but we sail in more calm waters than those on Ubi forums. It's funny to see people actually registering there only to let those people know that they will not buy SH5 because of drm and how much they enjoy SH3. And they keep repeating this day by day no matter what :haha:

If they just did it at the UBI forums it wouldn't be a problem.

Seriously - nearly every thread gets hit with the "DRM sucks - SHV sucks" post at some point or other here.

I agree with Neal and with Nordman, we know you don't like the DRM - you've told us over and over and over again. It's staying for the forseeable future and there is nothing we can do about it. No amount of ranting (especially to us subsimmers who have the game and are playing it) is going to change that fact.

You've chosen not to buy the game (or like Steve - you may not have a choice) other than repeating that over and over - what else can you contribute to a forum dedicated to a game that you don't own or wont/can't play?

Can we not just move on?

[Bilge_Rat]

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over. :damn:

I have gotten a lot of PMs and email from people who feel the same as you. People who are getting some enjoyment out of a flawed game are getting sick of trolls and griefers.


However, what can we do about it? It's pretty hard to weed out people who post simply to add more grief to an already miserable situation. You can place them on your ignore list. You can report them if they are topic spamming--this is a forum for SH5, not DRM philosphies or game flaming-- and a moderator can roll their post into an existing grief thread. If they get enough complaints against them, we can deny their access to this forum. Any other ideas are welcome.


Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.

excellent post Neal.

[TDK1044]

Take a look at page one of the Silent Hunter 5 Forum. It contains a good and healthy balance of game related issues and observations.

While it is true to say that in the three weeks after the release of the game, there was certainly an explosion of thread hijacking by people who are totally against DRM, that has now diminished and the Forum is settling down again.

Many of those complaining about the DRM issue did so out of pure frustration and anger with the Publisher. And bear in mind that this wasn't the usual small group of loonies threatening to file lawsuits aginst Ubisoft and never purchase another Ubisoft product, many of these folks are subsimmers like me, who are watching the demise of a franchise.

That said, I agree with Neal. There's really nothing to be gained from endlessly infecting multiple threads with the same old issue.

The King is dead. Long live the King.

Let's move on. :)

[Nisgeis]

And, furthermore, and while I'm on my soapbox,<SNIP>

The new multiquote feature of the site is great. Makes it easier to reply to multiple posts.

[Feuer Frei!]

Don't like it, don't read it!
QED
Your suggestion then would be what? To allow this to happen?
So if, and i'm hypothetically-speaking of course out of ten posts, ten turned into drm-based or "i hate sh5" threads, you wouldn't read any of them, ie. leave the forum? Or surely it would be something like that. Not flaming you, but just don't get your mentality...

Why frequent the board for a game you neither like, nor intend to buy? It is a strange logic, and one which appears to be quite common these days.


Really? Why frequent it?
How do you know i don't like it, or indeed intend to purchase it?
I frequent this board, as you call it to listen in on people's ideas and experiences, not just gameplay-wise but also their impressions, their "optimism", their enthusiasm, their modding skills, i certainly don't listen in on this board to have people dredge up stuff that was posted months ago.
I frequent it, to gather information from the owners that do have the game, to keep abreast of the latest developments and assist me in eventually purchasing this game, when the time is right.

What information i don't want to gather is the "vicious circle" syndrome, the monotonous replies and drone about negative factors of the game. Actually, i don't mind the negative stuff, nothing is perfect, but just 2 "in your eyes" negatives from the game are gratingly reproduced so often. It's amusing also when people are seemingly held accountable for doing this and reading their reply, almost insinuating that there was nothing wrong with saying what has been said a thousand times before, and moreso, the gall of that replier to then fall back on the same tirade again in conclusion, all in the same reply!!!
Very amusing as a avid follower of such replies :haha:

Trust me, it is massively refreshing to see and read a post about the AA of the British being too accurate (ok so it may be a bug, but gee), or reading about how to restart a mission, or how to mod a file, or how to find where your save games are located....
Sure, you don't like the game, or you aren't going to buy it, an opinion that you are entitled to, BUT.....
there are WAYS to put your opinions forward, be a bit more creative, or diplomatic for God's sake!
Over and out. :salute:

[stoneys-nutz]

[QUOTE=severniae;1349789]Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.

I would like to petition the moderators of this forum, to lock down any more 'moan' topics and put the argument to rest permanently, or at least create just one thread for people to continue the discussion in a gentlemanly fashion and stop littering the forum with threads that seem to always turn into a pro/anti DRM/SH5 argument.

I feel that this forum is becoming more than a little ruined by the constant bickering about SH5, its DRM etc...

Its getting a little childish seeing people moaning at others because they bought SH5, and also seeing the people who bought it moaning at the people who won't because of the DRM, or other issues. We now know your feelings, whatever they are! Is there any need to keep going on about it? Why become so animated about the whole thing? If people have a problem, could they not just submit their complaint in writing to Ubisoft and have done with it?

We all know about the issues SH5 has, some people can get past that and get on with enjoying the game, others choose not to. That is fine! But can we, please, finally get past that and give it a rest. Its turning a really good forum that I want to be a part of into a flame-bin!

Many thanks,

Sev.[/


I would have to agree with you, its been flogged to death.
Lets move on.

[shmall]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.

I feel that this forum is becoming more than a little ruined by the constant bickering about SH5, its DRM etc...



Well I love the promise SH5 has to offer, its getting better all the time with the huge amounts of mods made already, and with more to come, plus some patches (hopefully) to fix most things to will be even better.
I like it so muchin fact, I have deleted SH3 and SH4 :)

However you can't stop people moaning about SH5 and its DRM because. DRM is a huge pain in the arse..... :( :(

example:
I watched the pacific series last night (great series so far) and then thought I would have a couple of hours of SH5, but NO....my crappy phone line was down (problem at the exchange), so there's me with my legal bought game and unable to use it due to the stupid DRM thing, while I'm sure the people with illegally hacked copies are ok to play :damn::damn::damn::damn:

DRM is the biggest SUCK of SH5 to me, and it needs changing, so YES, people are going to moan, and its their choice to moan, and its your choice NOT to read such posts if you wish ;)


Simon
So

[mookiemookie]

Don't like it, don't read it!

QED

Or, you could just not post it because it's something that's been posted a thousand times over. You are seriously degrading the signal-to-noise ratio. You hate DRM. You hate the fact that Ubi intentionally or not relies on modders for a finished game. We get it. Move on.

Quite right Neal, and well put. Why frequent the board for a game you neither like, nor intend to buy? It is a strange logic, and one which appears to be quite common these days.

I agree 100%. I think World of Warcraft is dumb. I have no interest in purchasing it or playing it. But strangely enough, I don't feel any compulsion to register an account on the WoW forums and tell people that.

You've chosen not to buy the game (or like Steve - you may not have a choice) other than repeating that over and over - what else can you contribute to a forum dedicated to a game that you don't own or wont/can't play?
Going back to my first point - you can say "don't like it? don't read it." but then it's easy to counter that with "No, I don't like it, not because of the content of your message, but the fact that you're adding nothing to the forum. And messages that add nothing are pointless and spam. Quit that."

Really? Why frequent it?
How do you know i don't like it, or indeed intend to purchase it?
I frequent this board, as you call it to listen in on people's ideas and experiences, not just gameplay-wise but also their impressions, their "optimism", their enthusiasm, their modding skills, i certainly don't listen in on this board to have people dredge up stuff that was posted months ago.
I frequent it, to gather information from the owners that do have the game, to keep abreast of the latest developments and assist me in eventually purchasing this game, when the time is right.

And I don't think anyone has a problem with that. You're not detracting from the forum at all by doing that. It's the folks that don't have any intention of buying it that have made it their life's purpose to rail against Ubisoft, the developers, the DRM and worst of all, other members by in essence calling them scabs and flogging them for even buying the game, let alone enjoying it. That's the kind of crap I get tired of seeing.

[BlackSpot]

Excellent post Mookie. :yeah:

[thyro]

what matters you? SH5?

Why are you looking so sad? coz you have SH5 or you don't have SH5?

what you think you doing? writing in this thread!

whatever you do... then enjoy this SH5 link that goes in line with this thread (yet another)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs


And now shut up! Don't be bad boys!

All the credits can go to his mama! :rotfl2:


have fun :salute:

[mcarlsonus]

THIS TIME, Mookiemookie tells me: "Or, you could just not post it because it's something that's been posted a thousand times over. You are seriously degrading the signal-to-noise ratio. You hate DRM. You hate the fact that Ubi intentionally or not relies on modders for a finished game. We get it. Move on."

Well, "Mookie" - there you go again! We keep revisiting the reading comprehension issue!

I've never been overly concerned about the DRM issue and have posted very little about it, as a matter of fact. Never. Ever. I've only responded on one DRM-specific thread regarding my concern about privacy issues when it's mandated that I'm connected with Ubi's servers whenever I use their product. I've never stated it made me think twice about buying SH5, nor do I honestly find it much of a hassle. But I'm lucky - I have reliable, fast internet service, unlike others.

My primary complaint is that SH5 was rushed to market more incomplete than previous versions. I've stated my feeling that I suspect that's due to Ubi assuming Subsim Modders can make everything okay - at no charge to them. BUT, they charge US to buy the game. I don't think that's fair - and I've utilized some really easy to understand metaphors to illustrate my point!

My complaint in a nutshell: I'm against using unpaid labor to enhance ones profit margin. I don't like having to pay for what amounts to a beta version of a product. In the overall scheme of things, I place DRM/OSP at 8 on my 1 to 10 scale where 1 is, "Heavily Concerned" and 10 is, "Not A Concern At All."

DRM issues never even came up. Perhaps you're attacking the wrong person?

[mookiemookie]

DRM issues never even came up. Perhaps you're attacking the wrong person?

Apologies on that, got you mixed up with someone else.

[drtechno]

That plus if we don't post it here, people researching the game will be led to the (false) premise that they are buying a 5/10 product.. when in reality, they are paying for detritus... a piece of software that UBI should be paying them to use (I state use since 'play' would be a false promise of some degree of enjoyment).

I was just reminded of how sh|tty the manual truly is when I stumbled upon my original M1 Tank Platoon manual from the good ole days. Now THOSE game had manuals. Sigh.. and then all the other issues, stupid design (crew interactions, see other posts), bugs, DRM, etc.

Should we change the title to "Silent Hunter 5, Deep in Detritus"? Then we will be silenced.

[mcarlsonus]

Hallelujah! Someone actually GETS it! Thanks, "drtechno," but I will state, for the record, that the SH5 Manual was only the symptom of a larger, festering, pus-oozing problem: the lack of effort put into what became the final release of the product.

[Onkel Neal]

That plus if we don't post it here, people researching the game will be led to the (false) premise that they are buying a 5/10 product.. when in reality, they are paying for detritus... a piece of software that UBI should be paying them to use (I state use since 'play' would be a false promise of some degree of enjoyment).

I was just reminded of how sh|tty the manual truly is when I stumbled upon my original M1 Tank Platoon manual from the good ole days. Now THOSE game had manuals. Sigh.. and then all the other issues, stupid design (crew interactions, see other posts), bugs, DRM, etc.

Should we change the title to "Silent Hunter 5, Deep in Detritus"? Then we will be silenced.

I'm sure the poor fellow who wanders in here not knowing anything about SH5 will understand from the threads posted by people whop play the game and are not spamming the forums with complaints that there are problems with the game.

Hallelujah! Someone actually GETS it! Thanks, "drtechno," but I will state, for the record, that the SH5 Manual was only the symptom of a larger, festering, pus-oozing problem: the lack of effort put into what became the final release of the product.

Yes, we know. :) We know. That's why the review is posted in plain sight, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165202) and there are many threads where people playing the game point out issues. But let's not allow that to turn our forums into a free for all.

[Feuer Frei!]

That plus if we don't post it here, people researching the game will be led to the (false) premise that they are buying a 5/10 product.

I see your point but that's half the point i'm trying to make...
How often does the "rating" of -100/10 need to be "posted".
That is the real issue here, not that the owners of the game are posting their (you-know-what) experiences, but how often...

Plus, i really do think, that like me, other folks here, and indeed elsewhere are aware what status the game has at this current stage....

Let's be more constructive about this game!

[BlackSpot]

Hallelujah! Someone actually GETS it! Thanks, "drtechno," but I will state, for the record, that the SH5 Manual was only the symptom of a larger, festering, pus-oozing problem: the lack of effort put into what became the final release of the product.

RECORDED
Well, now that it's "on record" you won't have to remind us in future posts.

[flag4]

it gets panned. almost universal. some like it and thats ok too. go to Amazon: it gets panned

and its a huge shame. the graphics look gorgeous - i have a screen shot on my desk top, it is lovely to look at:yep:

but it gets panned

and why should'nt people complain? if it is that bad.

i like to read. so i can imagine if i bought a book i was looking forward to and found the pages stuck together, the print smudged etc etc. i would not read it or get it repaired i would take it back and complain.

same with SH5, why should people put up with it. they spend hard earned money and get a faulty product...

i can not remember - exactly - what Peter Finch called out in the film Network - put we should be shouting it at UBI if it is that bad.

[mcarlsonus]

Well, "self," I like the MP Missions provided us by Blackswan/Upholder and my old arch enemy, "ddrgn." Those are CHALLENGING - and totally enjoyable with other fans. I also really like some of the Historical Missions. But, those aspects confuse me as they appear to be so much more evolved than the rank, boring, dumbed-down Campaign portion that makes up 99% of the actual game.

[John Channing]

It is pathetic game from the day one:

Simulation community should swallow arcade RPG, DRM, 40% finished product, boring campaign, support the brand with they money...etc.

...and Ubi ?

What steps UBi displayed so far or announced as next ?

For mutual "love and support" - it takes two sides...

Ubi made a commercial product for mass-gaming instead of simulation... OK. Fair enaugh - so enjoy your sales results...

***
You don't have to serve sim community... but please show some respect to people who kept SH brand for ten years.

Do you even own it?

Because if you do, and you have played it for more than an hour, than I really can't understand your comments.

JCC

[robbo180265]

You've chosen not to buy the game (or like Steve - you may not have a choice) other than repeating that over and over - what else can you contribute to a forum dedicated to a game that you don't own or wont/can't play?
Can we not just move on?






Going back to my first point - you can say "don't like it? don't read it." but then it's easy to counter that with "No, I don't like it, not because of the content of your message, but the fact that you're adding nothing to the forum. And messages that add nothing are pointless and spam. Quit that."





Actually my whole post is neither pointless or spam in my opinion, I was speaking out against the trolling that is going on.

FYI the whole post:

If they just did it at the UBI forums it wouldn't be a problem.

Seriously - nearly every thread gets hit with the "DRM sucks - SHV sucks" post at some point or other here.

I agree with Neal and with Nordman, we know you don't like the DRM - you've told us over and over and over again. It's staying for the forseeable future and there is nothing we can do about it. No amount of ranting (especially to us subsimmers who have the game and are playing it) is going to change that fact.

You've chosen not to buy the game (or like Steve - you may not have a choice) other than repeating that over and over - what else can you contribute to a forum dedicated to a game that you don't own or wont/can't play?

Can we not just move on?

There are plenty of people here who don't own the game but make a sizable contribution to the forum nonethless, my point was that there are also people here who just enjoy bashing the game and occasionally the members who play the game. Have a look around the threads - there's still plenty of bashing going on.

Perhaps I could have worded it better but my point was that constantly repeating the same tired old stuff is getting boring to me - and from reading this thread I'm guessing that I'm not the only one.

I find myself logging in but not taking part anymore for fear of being bashed if I dare to say that I like the game.

[John Channing]

Who is to say what upstart company is waiting out there to make the next generation of sub simulations? Perhaps the future CEO is starting high school next year...or maybe he is learning his ABC's. Maybe he is a retired sailor who is attending his fathers funeral next week...a father who served on a fleetboat or planted a seed of honor on his son that may someday grow into the simulation that we all wish for.


While waiting for these I would also recommend keeping a sharp eye out for flying pigs :D.

JCC

[Bilge_Rat]

Well, "self," I like the MP Missions provided us by Blackswan/Upholder and my old arch enemy, "ddrgn." Those are CHALLENGING - and totally enjoyable with other fans. I also really like some of the Historical Missions. But, those aspects confuse me as they appear to be so much more evolved than the rank, boring, dumbed-down Campaign portion that makes up 99% of the actual game.


As you say and I noticed as well, the single missions work quite well. The Pedestal mission is quite tough.

I am sure the campaign can be improved, most of the bugs appear to be there.

[mookiemookie]

Actually my whole post is neither pointless or spam in my opinion, I was speaking out against the trolling that is going on.

No, no, I was agreeing with you and expanding on the point you made.

[robbo180265]

No, no, I was agreeing with you and expanding on the point you made.

Oooops ! My bad:oops:

[flag4]

Actually my whole post is neither pointless or spam in my opinion, I was speaking out against the trolling that is going on.

FYI the whole post:



There are plenty of people here who don't own the game but make a sizable contribution to the forum nonethless, my point was that there are also people here who just enjoy bashing the game and occasionally the members who play the game. Have a look around the threads - there's still plenty of bashing going on.

Perhaps I could have worded it better but my point was that constantly repeating the same tired old stuff is getting boring to me - and from reading this thread I'm guessing that I'm not the only one.

I find myself logging in but not taking part anymore for fear of being bashed if I dare to say that I like the game.

dont be fearful, you can like the game as much as you like - as much as those who rile against it: i whish i was in your shoes; with a machine that could take full advantage of the graphics and a mind-set that was not put off by the problems it is having.

i really dont think this should be the issue - people liking it or not, but what the heck will UBI do to put things right IF they have caused so much trouble with a faulty product.

it is actually quite refreshing to read that people DO like it, it gives a sense of hope that all is not lost - or as bad as things are supposed to be.

i dont like the idea of DRM - but that is just me. i do like the idea we have another installement of SH. and maybe when i can afford a new machine to play it on - THIS will be the time when SH5 is ready and in a state where i want to be part of it: but untill then i have SH3 and SH4 (4 is in a box - never played it yet, but i am warming..) to play; and quite honestly 3 is still very good AND im learning manual targetting, so i am having fun and failure!!

i have said it in the past; i whish SH5 well and hope UBI comprimise over the DRM thing: it looks like a beautiful game, maybe all it needs is some TLC and common sense to sort it all out.

[mcarlsonus]

As you say and I noticed as well, the single missions work quite well. The Pedestal mission is quite tough.

I am sure the campaign can be improved, most of the bugs appear to be there.

But, damn Bilge! How is it possible that the MP and Historicals can be so GOOD - AND worthy successors to SH3 and 4, but the Campaign's are so gawd awful? I'm BAFFLED!

[thyro]

While waiting for these I would also recommend keeping a sharp eye out for flying pigs :D.

JCC


And who told you that pigs don't fly? :smug:

http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-content/uploads/skybus-big-pig-resized.jpg

[Bilge_Rat]

But, damn Bilge! How is it possible that the MP and Historicals can be so GOOD - AND worthy successors to SH3 and 4, but the Campaign's are so gawd awful? I'm BAFFLED!

Someone more knowledgable than me would have to look in the campaign files. Maybe they are all green rookies with a passive doctrine in 39? As someone else pointed out, the AI is governed partly by special attack scripts and it appears some of them do not work in the game. It may have something to do with the RPG elements? I am keeping my fingers crossed that the devs will patch it.

If you look at, for example, the PQ-17 single mission, all the escorts are "veterans" with an "aggressive" doctrine and they are quite good at detecting and keping you down. They will even peel off just 3-4 escorts to hunt for my sub while the rest protect the convoy. I am now testing one of the AI mods which is supposed to fix the attack scripts to see if it makes a difference. :ping:

[Adriatico]

Do you even own it?

Because if you do, and you have played it for more than an hour, than I really can't understand your comments.

JCC

Dear Moderator,

If there is anything concluded (so far) about this game - it is lack of immersion, unfinnished product, arcade gameply, u-boat captain running from station to station (?) ... i.e. there are two main groups of people "that own":
- nice graphics keep people playing
- angry people that regret preorder

Did You ask PC IGN if they have the game ?
Did You ask game experts that rated the game from 20% - 50.5% if they have a game ?
Is it a lay that Ubi - pushed DRM into mouth of sim community (pirats ?) that kept alive SH series for a years and years... ?
Is it a lay that Ubi released commercial & unfinished product that - sim community should mod and convert into simulator ?
Did You ask yourself - where are all these famous "long term" names of Subsim that are not even playing "this" - let alone moding it or participating SH5 forum ?
( I understand them more and more... )

I understand that You must "preserve" the only future subsim game as core of Subsim site - but it is, after last 3-4 weeks facts, a real question... WHAT is new, untrue, or surprising for You as moderator in this "game impressions summary" ?
:06:

[John Channing]

And who told you that pigs don't fly? :smug:



Cool!

A Cabin Supervisor on Air Canada once told me that they (quietly) refer to drunken business men as "PIGS IN SPAAAAAAACE" (a muppet show reference for our younger readers)

JCC

[John Channing]

Dear Moderator,

If there is anything concluded (so far) about this game - it is lack of immersion, unfinnished product, arcade gameply, u-boat captain running from station to station (?) ... i.e. there are two main groups of people "that own":
- nice graphics keep people playing
- angry people that regret preorder

Did You ask PC IGN if they have the game ?
Did You ask game experts that rated the game from 20% - 50.5% if they have a game ?
Is it a lay that Ubi - pushed DRM into mouth of sim community (pirats ?) that kept alive SH series for a years and years... ?
Is it a lay that Ubi released commercial & unfinished product that - sim community should mod and convert into simulator ?
Did You ask yourself - where are all these famous "long term" names of Subsim that are not even playing "this" - let alone moding it or participating SH5 forum ?
( I understand them more and more... )

I understand that You must "preserve" the only future subsim game as core of Subsim site - but it is, after last 3-4 weeks facts, a real question... WHAT is new, untrue, or surprising for You as moderator in this "game impressions summary" ?
:06:

ummmmmm... yeah.

Was the answer to my question anywhere in there? Because if it is, I can't find it.

JCC

[John Channing]

Don't rule out the possibility that they have been set that way on purpose to reflect historical accuracy of that time.

Really... don't rule it out.

JCC

[Adriatico]

ummmmmm... yeah.

Was the answer to my question anywhere in there? Because if it is, I can't find it.

JCC

No. I do not own it but I know people that do... and I have seen more than enough.

So it is your pleasure now to reply to my questions... or to explain to all this web sites, veteran members, disapointed owners, price droppers... etc. - to get serious!

[robbo180265]

Dear Moderator,

If there is anything concluded (so far) about this game - it is lack of immersion, unfinnished product, arcade gameply, u-boat captain running from station to station (?) ... i.e. there are two main groups of people "that own":
- nice graphics keep people playing
- angry people that regret preorder


I'm sorry mate but you don't speak for me.

I own the game and I play it because I enjoy playing it - and thats it in a nutshell.

[robbo180265]

I hope you don't mind but as a game owner I'm gonna take you up on some of your other points too


Dear Moderator,

If there is anything concluded (so far) about this game - it is lack of immersion I have no problem with immersion - no worse than SHIII, unfinnished product Agree, arcade gameply disagree - no worse than vanilla SHIII, u-boat captain running from station to station Not had to run anywhere yet - which is just as well as my machine is laggy as hell inside the sub (?) ... i.e. there are two main groups of people "that own":
- nice graphics keep people playing
- angry people that regret preorder I've covered that


:06:

[mookiemookie]

I agree with you JC, but some of that AI is really dumb. I mean to the point of "no sane person would act that way" dumb. Escorts and planes should at least acknowledge the fact that you exist. They may be fairly inept in prosecuting a contact and that would be believeable, but too many times I've run through convoys firing off torpedoes left and right without the escorts even reacting at all. And of course the planes that do nothing issue is another kettle of fish.

[Onkel Neal]

i can not remember - exactly - what Peter Finch called out in the film Network - put we should be shouting it at UBI if it is that bad.


Yeah, I saw that movie. That's a Hollywood solution, won't work in real life. :shucks: A lot of people with low emotional triggers yelling in anger...that goes on for maybe 15 minutes, nothing is solved except people who are trying to read or sleep are disturbed. Then the angry mob gets tired of shouting and go to the fridge for a beer.

[Bilge_Rat]

It is pathetic game from the day one:

Simulation community should swallow arcade RPG, DRM, 40% finished product, boring campaign, support the brand with they money...etc.

...and Ubi ?

What steps UBi displayed so far or announced as next ?

For mutual "love and support" - it takes two sides...

Ubi made a commercial product for mass-gaming instead of simulation... OK. Fair enaugh - so enjoy your sales results...

***
You don't have to serve sim community... but please show some respect to people who kept SH brand for ten years.

Adriatico, your post is just hyperbole.

SH5 is a subsim. It is not any more "arcade" than SH3 or 4. The RPG type "skills" need some work, but I would not say that is a major issue.

It is finished since all the elements you expect in a subsim are there, i.e. working sub, single missions, campaign. It has a certain amount of bugs/issues, about on the same level as SH3/4 when they came out.

Boring campaign? :hmmm: It is the same type of campaign as in SH3/4, i.e., go there, sink ships, some back alive.

DRM? well no one likes DRM, but that has nothing to do with the underlying simulation.

If you want to dismiss SH5 out of hand without even trying it out, that is your choice, but don't masquerade your post as a statement of fact.

[John Channing]

No. I do not own it but I know people that do... and I have seen more than enough.

So it is your pleasure now to reply to my questions... or to explain to all this web sites, veteran members, disapointed owners, price droppers... etc. - to get serious!

OK, thanks.. I just wanted to know if you know actually what you were talking about of if you were just jumping on the bandwagon. Now I do.

As to your questions...


Did You ask PC IGN if they have the game ?



No, there was no need. It was pretty obvious that they owned the game. Also, I don't see them logging in here constantly and trashing the game, so there was no opportunity to ask them.


Did You ask game experts that rated the game from 20% - 50.5% if they have a game ?



Well I consider Neal somewhat of an expert so I tend to take him at his word. As well I have been around Subsims for a while so I like to make my own judgements and assesments of Subsims... rather than take the word of someone I don't know anything about.

Is it a lay that Ubi - pushed DRM into mouth of sim community (pirats ?) that kept alive SH series for a years and years... ?


Not sure exactly what you mean by "a lay", but no one "pushed" anything on anyone. Any informed consumer knew what was involved as far as the DRM and made a concious choice to buy or not to buy. No one forced anyone to buy anything.

Is it a lay that Ubi released commercial & unfinished product that - sim community should mod and convert into simulator ?


It was the same with Silent Hunter, Silent Hunter 2, Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4.

I am an adult so I knew pretty much what to expect. I don't feel that I am entitled to anything. I make my choices based on the best information I can get (and in the case of Subsims it is Subsim.com) and my personal experience and observations, and I accept the consequences. Good and bad.

Did You ask yourself - where are all these famous "long term" names of Subsim that are not even playing "this" - let alone moding it or participating SH5 forum ?


There is lots of modding activity already for Silenter Hunter 5 and more to come after people see what the patch does and doesn't do. As far as the "famous names" I assume they are sick of all of the drama here and are either playing the game, waiting for the patches or DRM to be removed or have moved on altogether. If it is the latter then I am thankful that at least they have the maturity to know that they don't have to post the same tired complaints over and over and over again.

Plus, I am not exactly new around these parts myself.

I don't need to "preserve" anything other than what these forums are for which is that "we want the Radio Room to be a civil, mature forum for discussions about naval and subsims, tactics, mods, playing tips, troubleshooting, and submarine topics in general." Jumping into any number of threads and complaining about a game that you don't even own does not meet any of those criteria.

JCC

[John Channing]

I agree with you JC, but some of that AI is really dumb. I mean to the point of "no sane person would act that way" dumb. Escorts and planes should at least acknowledge the fact that you exist. They may be fairly inept in prosecuting a contact and that would be believeable, but too many times I've run through convoys firing off torpedoes left and right without the escorts even reacting at all. And of course the planes that do nothing issue is another kettle of fish.

Planes are a problem, I agree. But as far as escorts not reacting check out the reaction the Gunter Prien got in Scappa Flow. All of the reports of how the game is responding to the same situation are pretty accurate.

There are countless examples of where early war escorts did nothing during attacks. It wasn't because they didn't want to, it was becasue they either didn't know how to or didn't have the technology to react. Otherwise how would it have been possible to surface in the middle of a convoy and spend hours torpedoing ships (as happened in real life).

Previous iterations of the series either had, or were modded to have opponents with almost omnicient awareness of your position, depth and speed, regardless of the period of the war. This was completely unrealistic.

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".

As the war progresses watch what happens.

JCC

[Safe-Keeper]

Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?Don't feed the trolls. The more attention you give them, the more they act up. If they want to act like little children and wind up on everyone's ignore lists, so be it. Their choice.

Yeah, I saw that movie. That's a Hollywood solution, won't work in real life. :shucks: A lot of people with low emotional triggers yelling in anger...that goes on for maybe 15 minutes, nothing is solved except people who are trying to read or sleep are disturbed. Then the angry mob gets tired of shouting and go to the fridge for a beer. True. Activism is such that the fun, easy solutions (demonstrating in streets, buying locally, etc.) very rarely are the ones that actually bring about significant (or even noticeable) improvements. If you want to bring about change, you have to put up with doing boring stuff.

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

[robbo180265]

Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Nisgeis]

This is not to say there are not problems (the "me and my shadow" AI is one that comes to mind), but people who are still in 1939-1941/2 should check out the historical records. They might be surprised what they find. There was a reason it was refered to as the "Happy Times".

Planes that do not have bombs or torpedoes won't attack, they only report. The AI scripting has some peculiarites, so harbour patrols won't respond to you in some situations. The same situations affect convoys and the date doesn't affect their response (or lack of response). I need to re-read 'U-Boat Killer' by Donald Macintyre to get a feel for what they did and I have ordered a few books that should help understand convoy guarding behaviour mod.

I'm doing an AI mod at the moment, but it's hard to balance what people expect (un-realistic behaviour) with what they should do. One thing that I am sure of is that just ramping up the sensors does not an exciting encounter make, so I am trying to avoid making an 'AI' mod that is a sensor mod only. My aim is for smarter escorts, but with the same limitted sensors (or realistic sensors).

One Destroyer that was radar equipped and was in heavy fog with a new crew managed to sail along with the convoy, not notice that a large group of escorts had joined them and their own group of escorts had left for home. The author says that this crew was more of a hinderance to the convoy than to the U-boats.

[John Channing]

Don't feed the trolls. The more attention you give them, the more they act up. If they want to act like little children and wind up on everyone's ignore lists, so be it. Their choice.

True. Activism is such that the fun, easy solutions (demonstrating in streets, buying locally, etc.) very rarely are the ones that actually bring about significant (or even noticeable) improvements. If you want to bring about change, you have to put up with doing boring stuff.

Oh, that's just Frau_Kaleun. Just ignore her, she's harmless most of the time.

Have you ever seen her in "Joe Pecsi" mode? You would change your mind rapidly!

JCC

[robbo180265]

Planes that do not have bombs or torpedoes won't attack, they only report. The AI scripting has some peculiarites, so harbour patrols won't respond to you in some situations. The same situations affect convoys and the date doesn't affect their response (or lack of response). I need to re-read 'U-Boat Killer' by Donald Macintyre to get a feel for what they did and I have ordered a few books that should help understand convoy guarding behaviour mod.

I'm doing an AI mod at the moment, but it's hard to balance what people expect (un-realistic behaviour) with what they should do. One thing that I am sure of is that just ramping up the sensors does not an exciting encounter make, so I am trying to avoid making an 'AI' mod that is a sensor mod only. My aim is for smarter escorts, but with the same limitted sensors (or realistic sensors).

One Destroyer that was radar equipped and was in heavy fog with a new crew managed to sail along with the convoy, not notice that a large group of escorts had joined them and their own group of escorts had left for home. The author says that this crew was more of a hinderance to the convoy than to the U-boats.


That is good news - good luck I hope you figure it out.

An ideal example of the AI's problems is what happened to me whilst playing today.

I was a bit bored and the next mission in the campaign wasn't up yet so I headed out to Scapa Flow for some fun (I'm using the Uboat killer AI mod at the mo) Managed to sneak in ok , got to firing range on the 2 battleships , was able to fire, reload and fire again without any of the DD's breaking off from their patrols and attacking me.

On the way out I did get spotted and the DD steamed over to where I was. Being that the depth under keel was about 17 meters I figured I was dead. Straight away he does a depth charge run, there's a huge explosion - I'm flooding pretty much everywhere , sparks etc. Bloody chief engineer wont stop the flooding because he's injured lol. So I sneak a look outside and would you believe it? The DD has blown its own keel off with a depth charge lol.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I put that one down to the inexperience of the tommy's (it's '39 still) and headed out.

On the way out 3 DD's start tracking me and closing, I dive to periscope depth and they run aground in pursuit lol.

So there is room for improvement yes. Did it ruin my day - nope loved every minute :arrgh!:

[ENtek-IO]

Bilge RAt wrote:
"apology accepted :arrgh!:"


In your dreams MAte.
In German we call the above Dum Dreist.

Oh wait in English it is i think called "brashly impertinent"




Bilge RAt: wrote:
"and I have the greatest respect for the German people, notwithstanding my juvenile attempt at humour. Humble apologies all around if anyone was offended by the cartoon... (although it was funny :ping:)"

Oh really?? Guess what,look into my eye,.... ,you are trying weasel out of this situation that's all.

Your cartoons are not funny , but they are subversive.

You are not a Brit by chance? You know one of those guys who speak cogney? Because Usually that kind of crap is coming from the isle, London.. SUN Style.


You really start to make the impression that it is your goal to piss people off.

[robbo180265]

You are not a Brit by chance? You know one of those guys who speak cogney? Because Usually that kind of crap is coming from the isle, London.. SUN Style.




I understand where you are coming from , I have German friends and I winced when I saw the cartoon. That said, having a go at us Brits is no better IMO.

And it's Cockney:arrgh!:

Edit to add: You have a point about Sun readers though:03:

[Faamecanic]

Speak for yourself, mate. That's your opinion, I would be quite happy with a new subsim every year.

Even if its a buggy subsim like SH5 :hmmm: ??

I still say I would have rather UBI gave the money to the DEVS to FINISH SH4 PROPERLY and maybe add a ATLANTIC campaign.

As opposed to coming up with several novel and GREAT ideas and only implement them to a 50% level and say "here is your finsihed sim...hope you like". I mean WTF?? Who in thier right mind would think its a good idea to release something half finished ...then feign disbelief when the fans and reviewers rip it to shreads?

Sorry I would rather wait 5 years or more to get a complete product.... Now if one could be released every year...complete....HECK YA IM IN :)

[Bilge_Rat]

You really start to make the impression that it is your goal to piss people off.


There you go trolling again.:nope:


I dont really care what you think about SH5 or what your problem is. :nope:

[Faamecanic]

There you go trolling again.:nope:


I dont really care what you think about SH5 or what your problem is. :nope:

Is it trolling if we say something positive about SH5 before saying something negative?

Like:

The Box SH5 comes in has nice pictures.

then:

It makes a nice coaster for my coffee mug while I play YYYY Sim.


This trolling was brought to you by the letter Y (and sometimes X if we are in the mood to be dirty).

(PS...just trying to lighten your mood up like you did for me a few pages back :P )

[Faamecanic]

I wish to file a formal complaint about the complaint by the OP about the complainers complaing about complaints (note these complaints are completely unrelated to any of my complaints about complainers complaining about my compliants).

Wait.... I will start my own thread for this..... being as I just realized the OP did not address my complaint!! :yeah: :har:

[Nisgeis]

Hey! That's two nice things you said about it.

[kanfield1]

It is pathetic game from the day one:

Simulation community should swallow arcade RPG, DRM, 40% finished product, boring campaign, support the brand with they money...etc.

...and Ubi ?

What steps UBi displayed so far or announced as next ?

For mutual "love and support" - it takes two sides...

Ubi made a commercial product for mass-gaming instead of simulation... OK. Fair enaugh - so enjoy your sales results...

***
You don't have to serve sim community... but please show some respect to people who kept SH brand for ten years.

ditto to Neal & Bilge Rat. some of you complainers sound like you've spent a whole 1/2 hour in the game. talk about instant gratifcation. did it ever occur to you that part of the game IS discovering how to do (or earn) certain features?
maybe you'd be happier with some 5 minute goal on the X-box.

p.s. "Fair enaugh". excuse me, but your education is showing...

[Sailor Steve]

I wish to file a formal complaint about the complaint by the OP about the complainers complaing about complaints (note these complaints are completely unrelated to any of my complaints about complainers complaining about my compliants).

Wait.... I will start my own thread for this..... being as I just realized the OP did not address my complaint!! :yeah: :har:
Complain all you want. It won't stop people from complaining.

And that's the OP's complaint. I think.:D

[vonTorpitz]

Recently I've heard a tremendous amount of flak both on and off this forum directed against SH5.
Its true, the game was released practically half finished and bug ridden to the extreme. But seriously! There's got to be a bright side to this dismal situation. We actually have a brand new u-boat simulator, exclusively set in The Battle of the Atlantic. The graphics in this game are absolutely amazing both inside and outside the boat, we can now move about the boat (this adds huge freakin possibilities if you use your imagination) and from what I've heard Ubisoft has created the game to very open-ended and moddable. And remember, their previous releases in this genre were also basically unfinished when released but the efforts (superhuman, I might add) of modding community were able to turn them into winners. I personally think the opportunities abound in this game and positivity goes along way folks. So, meine kameraden, keep faith in SH5 and keep faith in the unbelievable skills of the modding community surrounding this game. Because in a years' time this will probably be the best subsim you've ever played.

Danke und Sieg!

vonTorpitz

Achtung! The boat is drifting off course Herr Kaleunt! Or at least this thread is. My intention was to fish for some other fellow SH5 supporters and enthusiasts to commiserate with. People who have moved on from the futile DRM gripes. If you have no time for the game, why do you have time to come here and slag it. Do the rest of us a favor and please, forget about SH5 and move on, for crying out loud. This DRM crap is getting nowhere fast and its highjacking what could otherwise be constructive threads. How about some actual constructive discourse.C'mon. I know you guys are out there.

[Nordmann]

Your cartoons are not funny , but they are subversive.

Subversive? What are you, a communist? Sure, they might be in bad taste (if you're a German), but they do have a point. Frankly, I'm not too sure why you would find them offensive, as they are simply highlighting the ridiculous guilt trip modern Germans are forced to endure.

You are not a Brit by chance? You know one of those guys who speak Cockney? Because Usually that kind of crap is coming from the isle, London.. SUN Style.

I could respond to this with a witty comment, but I won't, as I don't want to offend our other German posters. However, please keep in mind that you can be stereotyped just as easily.


You really start to make the impression that it is your goal to piss people off.

The only person pissing people off, would appear to be you.

[Brag]

The OP's complaint is a complaint about complainers complaining complaintively with negative complaints omitting a positive complaining attitude in their complaint. :yep:.

[d@rk51d3]

And if you don't like us complaining about all your complaining................... don't read it.;)

[Brag]

I wonder what Ubi would do if they thought we were all happy with DRM and loved to buy half-baked games. :D

[Sailor Steve]

Right back atcha. If you don't like what you're reading, complain about it!:D

[Nisgeis]

I wonder what Ubi would do if they thought we were all happy with DRM and loved to buy half-baked games. :D

They'd change the DRM system and either release complete games, or blank discs.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, I think it's entirely appropriate to paint those of us who love good submarine simulation but hate what Ubi has done with SH5 as marginalized non-participants to be silenced and banned if necessary. After all, it is expedient that Subsim give the impression that we are solidly behind the new game, no matter what. We should DEFINITELY be talking about what we like about the Titanic, rearranging the deck chairs and singing merrily in the first class lounge. It's just a little hole and everyone knows that this thing can't sink. Let's all just sing Kumbaya and swap recipes, why don't we.

It's not important that our fair use rights as copyrighted materials purchasers are being stolen. NAW!!!! Just enjoy talking with the cook about the soup. It doesn't matter that the game company in five minutes can shut down all the servers, denying every game owner the ability to play the game they bought. Just head to the engine room and tell the engine crew to make 8 knots. What fun! Never mind the fact that no sub captain ever did that in reality. It's called immersion, like it or you're not wanted here.

Folks, I'm here because I love submarine simulation. It has nothing whatever to do with Silent Hunter 5 except that it is the latest Subsim du Jour. And it's a loser in nearly every respect. I'm here because I hate that. I'm here being vocal that my money is jingling in my pocket, reserved for a new submarine simulation that respects our rights, values our input and gives us value for the money we spend. I realize that not everyone believes they deserve to be treated well. I understand that purchasing a purposely insulting thing like Online "Services" (sneer!) Platform blows some people's skirts up. I know well that if you treat some people badly enough long enough they will demand it. This Titanic may have a few decent details, but they will soon be half a mile under the surface of the North Atlantic. Enjoy the ride. It's one I choose not to take and you'll excuse me if I urge others to abstain as well.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to be intimidated into shutting up. Not going to happen.:salute:

[Kptlt_Lynch]

I think, as probably the largest comminity of sub simmers, the tone and topic of threads here is a very good indication of our accptance or displeasure of what is released.

SubSim may represent a bunch of whining women at the moment, but the message being sent to UBI is crystal clear.

I think that is very important, and outweighs the temporary inconvenience to those that have an issue with confrontation.