Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

[Bilge_Rat]

I love reading your posts RR. I dont agree with any of it, but you sure have a great command of the engligh language. :ping:

[Takeda Shingen]

Yes, I think it's entirely appropriate to paint those of us who love good submarine simulation but hate what Ubi has done with SH5 as marginalized non-participants to be silenced and banned if necessary. After all, it is expedient that Subsim give the impression that we are solidly behind the new game, no matter what. We should DEFINITELY be talking about what we like about the Titanic, rearranging the deck chairs and singing merrily in the first class lounge. It's just a little hole and everyone knows that this thing can't sink. Let's all just sing Kumbaya and swap recipes, why don't we.

It's not important that our fair use rights as copyrighted materials purchasers are being stolen. NAW!!!! Just enjoy talking with the cook about the soup. It doesn't matter that the game company in five minutes can shut down all the servers, denying every game owner the ability to play the game they bought. Just head to the engine room and tell the engine crew to make 8 knots. What fun! Never mind the fact that no sub captain ever did that in reality. It's called immersion, like it or you're not wanted here.

Folks, I'm here because I love submarine simulation. It has nothing whatever to do with Silent Hunter 5 except that it is the latest Subsim du Jour. And it's a loser in nearly every respect. I'm here because I hate that. I'm here being vocal that my money is jingling in my pocket, reserved for a new submarine simulation that respects our rights, values our input and gives us value for the money we spend. I realize that not everyone believes they deserve to be treated well. I understand that purchasing a purposely insulting thing like Online "Services" (sneer!) Platform blows some people's skirts up. I know well that if you treat some people badly enough long enough they will demand it. This Titanic may have a few decent details, but they will soon be half a mile under the surface of the North Atlantic. Enjoy the ride. It's one I choose not to take and you'll excuse me if I urge others to abstain as well.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to be intimidated into shutting up. Not going to happen.:salute:

It's a game. A game.

[ENtek-IO]

"Subversive? What are you, a communist? Sure, they might be in bad taste (if you're a German), but they do have a point. Frankly, I'm not too sure why you would find them offensive, as they are simply highlighting the ridiculous guilt trip modern Germans are forced to endure."

Well if they are in bad taste you gave yourself the answer why i found them to be offensive. YOu know exactly with what intention they were posted,the claiming "its funny" part was just a cover for the bad taste and the concealed attack.He hoped i would jump on it,6th grader style.

They got a point??
You know its 2010 ,...I am part of the postwar generation i had nothing to do with this war, i don't feel guilty and fought my whole life against the guilt indoctrination IN Germany on schools and certain other circles.
Usually the left are most prone to this type of masso BS.
I know a lot of people in my age group who don't even think remotely there is guilt In Generations post war.
Especially war gamers and simmers are immune to this and especially if they are from Germany. Guess how the general public in Germany views this type of activity?

And Yet from the German perspective there is a ranking in country's who don't get of the old BS Blame game.
In the top 2 you find Britain( the sun is always agood start almost daily,..Lines like "German Blitz does it again,referring to Michael Schumacher or a politician an ice scater.. you name it ,or Inaccurate History revisionist discovery channel docus ..etc ) and France, Nowadday Italy is part of that too ,they have forgotten that Mussolini was one of theirs, and inspired Hitler to Mein Kampf with his manifesto..


No one is forced to endure,its just that many are sheeple.



"The only person pissing people off, would appear to be you."

Repeating pre chewed phrases doesn't make them become more true.


The whole thing Started when i dared to tell a troll to look in the mirror,..

read the whole thread and you eventually get what i mean. tss.. Ignorance is bliss eh?


You two are quite persistent and are starting to piss ME off with your weird reality perception.

And that's the last i will say in this Thread .:salute:

[Bilge_Rat]

You two are quite persistent and are starting to piss ME off with your weird reality perception.


And that's the last i will say in this Thread .:salute:

I know, the truth hurts when you are on the wrong side of an argument. :salute:

Dont feel bad, all the mindless SH5 haters feel the same way you do.:salute:

Dont let the door hit you on the way out, putz. :salute:

[Sub Marauder]

I probably won't buy the game for a long time. I was planning on creating a mod but after reading the problems with SH5 I would rather wait. Was Silent Hunter 4 this bad upon release? I can't imagine it was.

[janh]

They'd change the DRM system and either release complete games, or blank discs.

Would the blank disc be my property, or only licensed for temporary use?? Can I used it for data storage, or do I thereby surrender the ownership of my property???

[Rockin Robbins]

It's a game. A game.

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game. Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product. Yes, it's a game that uses the word "service" to mean "bend over." Yes it's a game that we will have to post over and over that it is a game that doesn't deserve to be bought or modded, produced by a company that doesn't deserve to live.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game.

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

[NefariousKoel]

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.


:up:

[Buddahaid]

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game. Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product. Yes, it's a game that uses the word "service" to mean "bend over." Yes it's a game that we will have to post over and over that it is a game that doesn't deserve to be bought or modded, produced by a company that doesn't deserve to live.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game.

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

I don't disagree with your stance, I just disagree that the kool-aid is poison. Obviously, some have drank it and are still alive wanting more, and as I stated before, it is a Pandora's box now. I can't play it any longer as I don't like the gameplay. I don't care at all about resale, but I do care about improving the experience along historical and "realistic" lines which is where this game fails me. Rewrite copyright law? I work in a world where hundreds of thousands of dollars are spend on equipment, run by software the buyer does not own more than a use license. This is water under, and past the bridge now my friend. I'm just as sorry as you about it, but I choose to move on.

[Méo]

the buyer does not own more than a use license.

I know, it has been said a thousand times, they still don't get it. :nope:

[Ducimus]

I'm sorry, but that thread title (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdyEw6jfGQ) keeps staring at me. I just can't get into hippie movments. lol

[robbo180265]

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

And there folks is the problem.

Whether it is a good game or not - whilst the DRM is present the haters will go on hating. They will go on hijacking threads and adding more hate because...... The DRM is bad M'kay

*sigh*

[mookiemookie]

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game. SH5 hates the troops!

Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product. So what? It's a computer game.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game. I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads? Do they go over to the Dangerous Waters forums and spam that forum with threads about why they don't play that game?

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion. Just because your opinion is valid, doesn't mean you're not a jerk for spamming it all across as forum devoted to game owners to discuss the game they....you know....own.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread. Apologies to whomever said this first and if I paraphrase but, "Not buying SH5 does not make you the moral equivalent of Nelson Mandela."

Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. BULLSH**. Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION. People should be able to come to a forum devoted to a game they like and discuss the game. They do not have to subscribe to your opinion to come to this forum. You're saying that every thread needs to have YOUR OPINION in it?

Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it. More BS...err...your opinion. It's not valid to you but that doesn't mean it's not valid to others. Forcing your opinion on others whether they like it or not just makes you a bully.

[dannygjk]

Curiosity killed the cat, and gave me a horrible flashback.

*Me, curious about link 'thyro' posted, *click*...

"NOOOOO!!"

*sobbing* Dammit thyro!! OMG that tune is running thru my head again, after I had pretty much forgotten it decades ago.

[robbo180265]

SH5 hates the troops!

So what? It's a computer game.

I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads? Do they go over to the Dangerous Waters forums and spam that forum with threads about why they don't play that game?

Just because your opinion is valid, doesn't mean you're not a jerk for spamming it all across as forum devoted to game owners to discuss the game they....you know....own.

Apologies to whomever said this first and if I paraphrase but, "Not buying SH5 does not make you the moral equivalent of Nelson Mandela."

BULLSH**. Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION. People should be able to come to a forum devoted to a game they like and discuss the game. They do not have to subscribe to your opinion to come to this forum. You're saying that every thread needs to have YOUR OPINION in it?

More BS...err...your opinion. It's not valid to you but that doesn't mean it's not valid to others. Forcing your opinion on others whether they like it or not just makes you a bully.

Yet another good post Mookie.

[Zedi]

...
I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads?
...

/signed :up:



/offtopic: btw, WoW was not dumb, people made it so. The constant whining of 'zomg nerf this, nerf that' made it from a hardcore game to a casual/popular one. Well, at least the devs there are listening to their customers whishes.. and the kids wants casual games :x Still, with a mature guild and the right people, you can enjoy the game and not bother with the loud crowd.

[Nisgeis]

Just head to the engine room and tell the engine crew to make 8 knots. What fun! Never mind the fact that no sub captain ever did that in reality.

You do not have to go to the engine room to order 8 knots. You can do that from the UI available everywhere.

Unfortunately for those that are posting negative things about the game, it lessens the impact of their comments and damages their credibility among those that have played the game when they make claims about faults in the game that are not there. For those that have not played the game and are equally mis-informed this strengthens their belief in a faulty game, as another 'fact' has come to light. This only serves to divide the community further.

I think in this case it would be fair to say that there was another flavour of poisoned Kool-Aid going around on the forum that is equally as flavoursome to the ones that are drinking it and equally as foul as those that aren't.

My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

Ownership is not necessary, but a reliable source of information is necessary. Where did you get the information that you had to go to the engine room to change speed? I don't think it's reliable.

Unfortunately what was warned about at the very start - people complaining about the DRM repeatedly would eventually turn other people who were against the DRM into defenders of it, simply because they are sick of hearing the same thing - has already started to happen.

If people are serious about getting the DRM removed, then I'd ask if they had at least written to Ubisoft, or a newspaper, or tried to organise something other than posting repeatedly on a website that isn't even related to Ubisoft. If they haven't, then I suggest they do, because from what I can see, Ubisoft don't seem to mind that you are posting here.

[IanC]

The "It's just a game" reason for not getting upset, doesn't sound quite right to me. :hmmm:
Just a broken game... just a broken lamp... just a broken DVD player... you only spent 60$... you only spent 10$... When is somebody allowed to feel jipped exactly? Heck SUBSIM.COM is all about games, so don't tell us it's just a game.
Now a valid complaint would be if the same person, made the same complaints over and over and over again. That is clearly spamming, but I don't see it being the case here. I think you have the same people talking about different problems or many different people talking about the same problem, which would give the impression or illusion of spamming, but in reality everybody is just voicing their opinions on the matter. It just seems like spamming because the negative comments are so numerous, again I would blame the game for that, not the posters.
Unless some of you are saying voice a negative opinion once and then shut up, well in that case I can't agree.
This is a forum about subsims, if SH5 sucks, this is the place the flaws will be pointed out, warts and all.

[Feuer Frei!]

Now a valid complaint would be if the same person, made the same complaints over and over and over again. That is clearly spamming, but I don't see it being the case here. I think you have the same people talking about different problems or many different people talking about the same problem, which would give the impression or illusion of spamming, but in reality everybody is just voicing their opinions on the matter.
Not necessarily the same person, although the subject matter is always the same, or falls back onto the same ground over and over again.
That is not an illusion, let me assure you of that.
And no-one is saying that people shouldn't voice their opinions, letalone their concerns.
The "it's just a game" mentality/opinion is actually quiet simple and easy to understand:
Life goes on, don't take it so seriously! There are more important things in life to stress about than a PC Game.

[IanC]

Not necessarily the same person, although the subject matter is always the same, or falls back onto the same ground over and over again.
That is not an illusion, let me assure you of that.

That will happen in forums. Like it or not people don't do enough reading and will post something that was said already. Heck, go to the SH3 forum and people are asking the same questions that were asked since 2005. Or just last week here, we had three threads asking about the gramophone. It's not deliberate spamming or trolling, hence the illusion I was referring to.

[JScones]

That will happen in forums. Like it or not people don't do enough reading and will post something that was said already. Heck, go to the SH3 forum and people are asking the same questions that were asked since 2005. Or just last week here, we had three threads asking about the gramophone. It's not deliberate spamming or trolling, hence the illusion I was referring to.
I hear ya. Seeing posts asking questions that are answered in the sticky post one above theirs is quite annoying, but that's how it is. Not everyone is gonna read every post just to avoid repetition. And even so, they're likely gonna want their version to be heard, even if 20 others have said the same thing immediately before them. Nothing wrong with that (although there's nothing I loathe more than being in a meeting where a decision has been made yet people still want to put their 2c worth of agreeance in, but that's me, and I just grin and bear it and tell my subordinates that I'll shoot them if I hear them do it).

However, having said that, there certainly is a number of people here who one can expect to deliver the same diatribe (good or bad) at every opportunity. Some may be surprised, but it's not just the "this game sux" people either; there are others that are quite happy to troll and spam the other way too. It's certainly at a point where at least I know the people who will jump into a thread based solely on the title of the thread. I have yet to be disappointed.

And look, here I am posting here. Who'da thunk it?

[thyro]

SH5 hates the troops!


So what? It's a computer game.

I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads? Do they go over to the Dangerous Waters forums and spam that forum with threads about why they don't play that game?

Just because your opinion is valid, doesn't mean you're not a jerk for spamming it all across as forum devoted to game owners to discuss the game they....you know....own.

Apologies to whomever said this first and if I paraphrase but, "Not buying SH5 does not make you the moral equivalent of Nelson Mandela."

BULLSH**. Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION. People should be able to come to a forum devoted to a game they like and discuss the game. They do not have to subscribe to your opinion to come to this forum. You're saying that every thread needs to have YOUR OPINION in it?

More BS...err...your opinion. It's not valid to you but that doesn't mean it's not valid to others. Forcing your opinion on others whether they like it or not just makes you a bully.


I've been avoiding commenting more in this rubish thread but I couldn't stop commenting regarding above post.

I'm sorry MM but I find your remarks bit offensive.

By reusing RR's comments I can see that you don't seem to get it do you... neither at least you tried to get the overall message, instead you seem be picky and used lowlevel language thinking that your argument is most valuable than others.

I subscrib RR's comments apart from few things that I disagree with him.

But if this subsim forum will be bound to just say good things about every rubish that UBI pulls out of their arsses then good luck subsim.com for the impartiality. In all this SH5 I can see two different fronts those pro (yes UBI we luv you even more from those UBI get on with your work and get it right!).

Both are right and at same time both are wrong, but both are entitle to post their opinions to counter balance the argument.

I think this thread should be locked because it only gathers flames rather than valid discussion and arguments.

Cheers

[mikeydredd]

Yes you are right - it is just a game.

The words "historical", "accurate", and "simulator" just don't apply.

For those of us that were expecting that it is a real disappointment.

And as for the DRM. . . .

Agree 110% with Rockin Robbins.

And I'm not a hater - I've bought ALL the previous silent hunters, and spent far too many hours over the years being equally entertained and frustrated by them.

Until this . . . whatever you want to call it.

Dredd :arrgh!:

[Onkel Neal]

I know, the truth hurts when you are on the wrong side of an argument. :salute:

Dont feel bad, all the mindless SH5 haters feel the same way you do.:salute:

Dont let the door hit you on the way out, putz. :salute:

Come on, Bilge, no need to say that.

[John Channing]

Some may be surprised, but it's not just the "this game sux" people either; there are others that are quite happy to troll and spam the other way too.



Can you give me a couple of examples of that type of post that does not fall under the following?


...we want the Radio Room to be a civil, mature forum for discussions about naval and subsims, tactics, mods, playing tips, troubleshooting, and submarine topics in general.


JCC

[St. Cobra]

Yes, I think it's entirely appropriate to paint those of us who love good submarine simulation but hate what Ubi has done with SH5 as marginalized non-participants to be silenced and banned if necessary. After all, it is expedient that Subsim give the impression that we are solidly behind the new game, no matter what. We should DEFINITELY be talking about what we like about the Titanic, rearranging the deck chairs and singing merrily in the first class lounge. It's just a little hole and everyone knows that this thing can't sink. Let's all just sing Kumbaya and swap recipes, why don't we.

It's not important that our fair use rights as copyrighted materials purchasers are being stolen. NAW!!!! Just enjoy talking with the cook about the soup. It doesn't matter that the game company in five minutes can shut down all the servers, denying every game owner the ability to play the game they bought. Just head to the engine room and tell the engine crew to make 8 knots. What fun! Never mind the fact that no sub captain ever did that in reality. It's called immersion, like it or you're not wanted here.

Folks, I'm here because I love submarine simulation. It has nothing whatever to do with Silent Hunter 5 except that it is the latest Subsim du Jour. And it's a loser in nearly every respect. I'm here because I hate that. I'm here being vocal that my money is jingling in my pocket, reserved for a new submarine simulation that respects our rights, values our input and gives us value for the money we spend. I realize that not everyone believes they deserve to be treated well. I understand that purchasing a purposely insulting thing like Online "Services" (sneer!) Platform blows some people's skirts up. I know well that if you treat some people badly enough long enough they will demand it. This Titanic may have a few decent details, but they will soon be half a mile under the surface of the North Atlantic. Enjoy the ride. It's one I choose not to take and you'll excuse me if I urge others to abstain as well.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to be intimidated into shutting up. Not going to happen.:salute:

Good people won't be posting trash talk like 14 years old boys, good people know when to shut up.

Are you a politician? You sure sound like one. :rotfl2:

[GlobalExplorer]

"we must silence the opposition"
-Saul Alinsky

I suggest from now on authors should use

[Rant] for anti SH5 thread and [Rave] for a pro SH% thread in the title ie:
[Rant] SH5 sux

:up::up::up:

[GlobalExplorer]

I don't understand the logic of the OP. He agrees that SH5 sucks but then tells me I should buy it because it could suck even more? C'mon.

As long as SH5 has this always-online-thing a lot of people won't buy it. And I'm very glad that they are so many.

[Onkel Neal]

I think this thread should be locked because it only gathers flames rather than valid discussion and arguments.




I aaree. Locked. And merged with the other duplicate topic.

Resisting the bad taste to take a final shot and then lock, let me repeat. No one is being asked to say only good things about SH5--how hard is it to understand that? :o It has been said many times here; criticize but do it with some sense. And if you are not going to play the game, make your comments and move on to games you are interested in.