Bright map texture problem

[verte]

The map in type IX and II is very bright, but in type VII it is ok:

Type VII:

http://i43.tinypic.com/a2c5tt.jpg

Type IX i II:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2r23pqe.jpg

Can it be in any way repaired, so in type IX and II it would be not so bright?

[Madox58]

Looks like the interior lighting has been changed on the VII?

[verte]

Looks like the interior lighting has been changed on the VII?
Those are default GWX files, so everybody should have this problem.

[Madox58]

I remember that some work was done on the interior of the VII by DD for GWX.

That would explain the difference.

[verte]

The problem is in the files: NSS_Uboat2_CR.dat & NSS_Uboat9_CR.dat.

For example, in NSS_Uboat7_CR.dat those are the options for maps in uboot interior:

http://i43.tinypic.com/rb9qo8.jpg

As you see, there is "Ambient Occlusion" - "LM01.tga" attached to each of the two maps.

In NSS_Uboat2_CR.dat & NSS_Uboat9_CR.dat there are no ambient occlusion attached to map files, so it is the only thing that must be done to fix this problem. I tried to do it with type 9, but my knowledge about id's and ambient occlusion files is to small :(

[Volk2]

BUMP

Now, that there seems to be more knowledge about sh3 graphics, is it possible to add this ambient occlusion - or something - to NSS_Uboat2_CR.dat & NSS_Uboat9_CR.dat and repair those maps? It seems that developers had no time to finish type II and type IX graphics...

[Anvart]

Any problems? try and see...

[frau kaleun]

Yeah, I'd be interested in something on this too. I've run a couple test patrols with a Type II and the chart table stuff is wonky looking. I'd love to know what I can do to fix it. Haven't looked at it in the IX interior yet.

[Anvart]

Do the same as shown above (or copy/paste from the similar parts)... just write the appropriate texture for LightMap - AO... if light data is... you will see the desired ...
... don't forget about identifiers.

P.S.
speech is about light map (light and shadow).

[FIREWALL]

My maps on all boats look just fine and easy to read.

[frau kaleun]

The navmap when I'm at that station are fine... it's just when I'm standing in the control room, and pan over to the navigator standing over the table... there, they look weird.

Only on my II, though, where it's just big bright blue rectangles on the table. The IX seems fine. Looks like the VII but I'm using DD's Open Hatch interior stuff for the IX so I'm sure that's why. Haven't looked at the XXI yet.


Edit: Actually comparing the files currently in my game with the unmodded GWX ones, there doesn't seem to be any difference. So maybe it's just down to something different with the original file for the II?

[Volk2]

One more time, for those who do not see the problem - comparison of type VII & type IX (type II has the same problem as IX):

Type VII:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/7a.jpg

Type IX:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/9a.jpg

The used ambient occlusion file for both cases - LM01.tga:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/LM01.jpg

Now, as you see, on type IX (and type II) there is no proper ambient occlusion (if I understand this correct?), and this is the reason of bad (very bright, without shadows) graphics in game.

As I have written before (I'm "verte") I tried to fix it myself, but my knowledge about this mechanics is too small, so I've had no success. Therefore after a year I'm asking for help with it.

[Anvart]

Show materials...:DL

[Volk2]

Show materials...:DL

I'm amateur, I don't understand sh3 tech-speak. Maybe you are talking about this? It's CR9C_LM.tga:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/CR9C_LM.jpg

I will be back tomorrow at night.

[frau kaleun]

I looked at the file I'm currently using for the IX and found there were two entries for Tactical.tga:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/5700611801_90e6fd19ce_b.jpg

The second one down, circled in red, only had the Label entry Map_tactic_M appended underneath it. The ones with the green dot next to them, I added using the other entry for Tactical.tga (visible a few entries up) as a guide. For the embedded image I exported the one from that other entry to my desktop and then imported it back in under the second entry.

The entry for strategica.tga had only the two entries for Embedded image and the Label: strategica. I added the other ones, again to match what was already there under that first Tactical.tga entry.

The model preview is what that Node looks like now after the additions.

[frau kaleun]

Now I'm playing around with the same stuff in the II .dat file, but no matter what image I embed for the Tactical.tga (the map on the left of the chart table) it gets blown up several times over in the model preview. Not sure how to make it show up with the correct sizing, and that seems to be the only thing that's not working out. :06:

[Volk2]

The second one down, circled in red, only had the Label entry Map_tactic_M appended underneath it. The ones with the green dot next to them, I added using the other entry for Tactical.tga (visible a few entries up) as a guide. For the embedded image I exported the one from that other entry to my desktop and then imported it back in under the second entry.

The entry for strategica.tga had only the two entries for Embedded image and the Label: strategica. I added the other ones, again to match what was already there under that first Tactical.tga entry.

The model preview is what that Node looks like now after the additions.

I take my hat off to you, frau kaleun - it looks like you have managed to repair what others could not! I have now no time to check it in game until weekend, but on the screenshots it looks very good. I hope that it will be similar with type II (as I remember correctly, the problem was more visible in type II, especially at night with red light) - I will check it in silent 3ditor in weekend. Thanks for your work :yeah:

[frau kaleun]

I take my hat off to you, frau kaleun - it looks like you have managed to repair what others could not! I have now no time to check it in game until weekend, but on the screenshots it looks very good. I hope that it will be similar with type II (as I remember correctly, the problem was more visible in type II, especially at night with red light) - I will check it in silent 3ditor in weekend. Thanks for your work :yeah:

You don't really need to add all the extra entries, I think just making sure the Ambient Occlusion one is there for all instances of Tactical.tga and strategical.tga where it's missing. I duplicated everything at first but IIRC as long as the correct AO is appended it worked fine. If not, duplicate the Embedded image as well. the MipMapBias stuff doesn't seem to make a difference, heck I don't even know what that is. :haha:

In the type II if you do the same thing - add the appropriate AO, I think there it's Lm_Druck.tga - you will have the same good results except for the fact that the images already embedded for those two maps don't seem to work very well with the way those nodes are modeled, or the shape/size whatever. I'm clueless about that stuff. Anyway I ended up importing in the strategica.tga image from the Type XI dat file, which worked well there.

The Tactical is giving me fits, I don't know what texture size that thing wants but the ones I could find in the game files are way too small (?) and seem to get resized up by 50% or more. Which makes what you can see of them not look so great, and the visible area there that has to be filled is quite a different shape than in the other boats, where at least one of the existing files fits quite nicely but not so in the II. This is with the .dat files currently in my playable installation, which is heavily modded at the moment, so your mileage may vary, but I think I looked in every type 2 CR .dat file on my 'puter trying to find something that looked good there and had no luck. Will probably do some experimenting and just cobble together a .tga for that spot from the existing stuff once I have a better idea of how to size it and position the content.


Edit: oh also in the Type II look for a blueprint.tga entry, in mine the AO was missing on that too.

Edit again: I should also add that I did not have time last night after all the fiddling to take any of the updated .dat files out for a test drive, so if you get the chance to do so and can confirm that the changes made don't bork anything up, that would be great. :)

[frau kaleun]

Well this is what I have right now. Not bad for a n00b, if I do say so myself. :O:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2654/5705589782_8e3726da25_b.jpg

[Gerald]

Well this is what I have right now. Not bad for a n00b, if I do say so myself. :O:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2654/5705589782_8e3726da25_b.jpg Not bad at all, :DL

[Fish In The Water]

Well this is what I have right now. Not bad for a n00b, if I do say so myself. :O:

Looking good...

Might have to kick you up a notch from n00b status. :03:

[DivingDuck]

Moin,

as the maps are too bright, they do have a lightmap assigned. That´s for sure. Otherwise they would stay dark and foggy.

If the map´s 3d object has been altered, the problem most probably lies with the tex coords for the lightmap. Check the 3d model whether a second map channel is present or not. In case it is, check the second map channel in S3D´s preview window to see whether map channel #1 and #2 are different.

They should be different as the devs used to place lightmaps for several objects in one texture file.

If they are not different, the second map channel´s tex coords (responsible for the ligthmapping) will point to wrong "shadow decals" on the correlated lightmap texture. As a result, the lit and shadowy areas got "screwed".
If they are different, the second map channel has the wrong lightmap assigned and is therefore pointing to the wrong "shadow decals".


Regards,
DD

[clouclou]

Frau Kaleun,
What Mod do you use for your interiors?
It's great.
Claude

[frau kaleun]

Frau Kaleun,
What Mod do you use for your interiors?
It's great.
Claude

In the VIIs and IXs everything starts with FM New Interiors and DD's Open Hatch and works off of that.

[clouclou]

Merci, super

[frau kaleun]

Moin,

as the maps are too bright, they do have a lightmap assigned. That´s for sure. Otherwise they would stay dark and foggy.

If the map´s 3d object has been altered, the problem most probably lies with the tex coords for the lightmap. Check the 3d model whether a second map channel is present or not. In case it is, check the second map channel in S3D´s preview window to see whether map channel #1 and #2 are different.



They should be different as the devs used to place lightmaps for several objects in one texture file.
If they are not different, the second map channel´s tex coords (responsible for the ligthmapping) will point to wrong "shadow decals" on the correlated lightmap texture. As a result, the lit and shadowy areas got "screwed".
If they are different, the second map channel has the wrong lightmap assigned and is therefore pointing to the wrong "shadow decals".
Regards,
DD

Er... thanks! I am going to assume that somehow this will all make sense to me once I have S3D running and am looking at the file again. :doh: :88)

Cuz right now it just feels like I'm in a Charlie Brown cartoon and the teacher is talking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrbumvF-Oe4&feature=related). :O: :haha:

(That's no comment on the quality of your explanation, DD, just on me not yet having a clue about what most of it means. :oops: )

[Volk2]

Hehe, yeah, DivingDuck, please remember that you are speaking with amateurs - well, at least with me as an amateur, because Frau Kaleun is now real Silent 3ditor wizard :DL The most important thing is - frau kaleun method works, that is inserting ambient occlusion in those places, where developers forget to insert them.

I've checked yesterday type IX in 3ditor, inserted AO in tactical, strategic, and blueprint maps and it is repaired :up: Later I will check type II.

Btw. - it looks like in type IX and II there are much more places without proper AO, like in different clocks and dials circles near the maps, just compare it with type VII in 3ditor to see it.

[frau kaleun]

Hehe, yeah, DivingDuck, please remember that you are speaking with amateurs - well, at least with me as an amateur, because Frau Kaleun is now real Silent 3ditor wizard :DL The most important thing is - frau kaleun method works, that is inserting ambient occlusion in those places, where developers forget to insert them.

:timeout: Hardly my method surely, I just read what was here in the thread and looked at the file and added in what was already known to be missing. Tweren't no big thang.

Now... making that newfangled Tactical.tga file? That were a relatively big thang, lol. Took actual time and work and semi-meticulous planning and a lot of trial and error and all that stuff. :03:


Btw. - it looks like in type IX and II there are much more places without proper AO, like in different clocks and dials circles near the maps, just compare it with type VII in 3ditor to see it.

Yeah, I was so focused on the maps I didn't notice that either until I posted the pics here and looked at them again this morning. I've only taken short test drives in the II and IX boats to make sure none of my mods break anything in them, I never really spent enough time in them to notice a lot of smaller details. I only hit on the blueprint.tga thing because it happened to be right next to the other two entries and I clicked on it accidentally.

[DivingDuck]

Good to know you´re sorted and have found a working solution.

Here´s something additional information you might consider useful. The LM entry is pointing towards the lightmap texture file. It may be an embedded texture or an external file. In Frau Kaleun´s screenie the LM is labeled 'CR9C_LM.tga'. There is no embedded texture node attached to it. This does not necessarily indicates the absence of an embedded texture. Further up the tree you probably find the lightmap. If not, it is external indeed.

@frau kaleun:
Shall I consider you being Sally Brown and me Charlie Brown, both listening to the teacher? Remember, the teacher does not know the location of the holy grail. It just sounds like he does. ;)

Regards,
DD

[Anvart]

In original game all LM textures are embedded... :DL

[frau kaleun]

Okay now that I've got it looking the way I want in the S3D model preview, how do I actually get a new embedded image to show up in the game? Because it's not there, even when I overwrite the existing file in my game installation with the new one in addition to embedding it in the .dat file. :06:

[DivingDuck]

Moin Frau Kaleun,

external texture files will be handled with priority. So, if you place a texture in the tex folder sharing the same name as the embedded texture, the external one will show ingame. Be aware that messing with an external tex file might cause other objects to look weird as the devs used to use them over and over again for the interiors, like a set of decals.

Regards,
DD

[frau kaleun]

Moin Frau Kaleun,

external texture files will be handled with priority. So, if you place a texture in the tex folder sharing the same name as the embedded texture, the external one will show ingame.
Regards,
DD

Tried that, didn't work. Enabled the updated .dat file plus the new texture .tga files (same ones I imported into the .dat file) into the appropriate folders like any other mod via JSGME. I can see that the other changes I made "took" but the new textures aren't there. I tried putting them in both of the Textures subfolders, one where they overwrote existing files, the other they were added as new files, I tried without adding them at all and just having them embedded in the .dat. No joy.

Edit, screenshots:

This is what the model preview looks like.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2607/5711413644_c288e3f88f_b.jpg

This is what it looks like in the game.I have blue CR lighting at night, which is why everything looks so blue - the game gave me a nighttime departure when I loaded the test patrol. Still obvious that the new textures aren't there.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3615/5710853703_e65522cc51_b.jpg

[DivingDuck]

Moin Frau Kaleun,

strange, especially since the lightmap is obviously loaded.
Is the tex file node further up the tree structure than the 3d object itself? Try allocating another texture just for a test and report back, please. If nothing works, you can send the file to me for inquiry.

Regards,
DD

[frau kaleun]

Moin Frau Kaleun,

strange, especially since the lightmap is obviously loaded.
Is the tex file node further up the tree structure than the 3d object itself? Try allocating another texture just for a test and report back, please. If nothing works, you can send the file to me for inquiry.

Regards,
DD

Thanks... I really have no idea what I'm doing, lol, I'm just looking at what's there and trying to extrapolate from it assuming that I "get" it and what I'm doing should work because it follows some pattern that I think I understand.

I will play around with it some more and look at the file structure again with your suggestions in mind. Maybe post a screenshot of the tree in S3D for starters when I can get to it. :DL

[frau kaleun]

I went back to the stock game to do some more fiddling with this, since the issues there seem to be the same and the loading times don't make me want to tear my hair out. :O:

I changed the .tga for the Tactical map in the CR .dat file to Tactical_1.tga, since there's also a Tactical.tga entry in the CT .dat file that uses a different embedded image and both Tactical.tga and Tactical_1.tga are in the data\Textures\TLowRes\tex folder. Using the latter in the CR made it easier to identify that specific texture in the model preview and (should it appear) in the game.

Then I added the AO to the second entries for strategica.tga and Tactical_1.tga (previously Tactical.tga) where it was originally missing. That gave a model preview that looked like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=163&pictureid=4258

The images there for both maps are the ones that are embedded in the .dat file for strategica.tga and Tactical_1.tga, they are also the same images that are in the data\...\tex folder. I dropped the new .dat file into my stock install and loaded the game, where the maps STILL look like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=163&pictureid=4259

So I'm scratching my head wondering where the game is getting the textures used there when the ones embedded in the .dat file are different AND the ones in the \tex folder match the embedded ones and have not been overwritten by anything else. There's nothing in the \tex folder that seems to correspond, and I don't know where to look in the .dat file.

Even when I embed those images shown in the pic #1 above into the second entries for each .tga in the .dat file, it doesn't put them in the game. It still looks like pic #2.

I've noticed that some other .tga entries in the .dat file are repeated, but with different .tga files selected for the AO. :hmmm:

The blueprint.tga only appears once, though, and if the AO Lm_DRUCK.tga entry is added to that, it shows up fine, both in the model preview and in the game.

[DivingDuck]

Moin Frau Kaleun,

haven´t been around for some time, sorry. The weather was nice and I have a new motorcycle. Does that count for a face-saver? Anyway, there´s not much I can say from the distance regarding your last efforts. Would be best if you´d drop me a link to your uploaded files. And I´ll have a look at them. PM me, if you like.

Regards,
DD

[frau kaleun]

No problem, DD, I've put off looking into this for the time being - trying to get back to playing again instead and am enjoying that too much. :yeah: