[REQ] Interim cloned merchant shipping

[Galanti]

The stock merchant ship list is pretty sparse, and features some glaring historical innacuracies such as Liberty ships in 1939, or USN-only Cimarron oilers. As an interim step, before modders start producing more 3D models, would it possible to use the EQP feature to clone some generic stand-ins?

I don't know much about it, but from what I can surmise, you can take exisiting 3d hulls and customize them by adding and removing funnels, superstructures, etc through these EQP files. Would it then be possible to take the Cimarron hull, fore example, and tweak the EQP files to make two or three additional types of tanker?

[wamphyri]

The stock merchant ship list is pretty sparse, and features some glaring historical innacuracies such as Liberty ships in 1939, or USN-only Cimarron oilers. As an interim step, before modders start producing more 3D models, would it possible to use the EQP feature to clone some generic stand-ins?

I don't know much about it, but from what I can surmise, you can take exisiting 3d hulls and customize them by adding and removing funnels, superstructures, etc through these EQP files. Would it then be possible to take the Cimarron hull, fore example, and tweak the EQP files to make two or three additional types of tanker?

You can't add or remove funnels,superstructure .. etc. The eqp file is used to change what weapons a ship/plane/sub has based on the time of year, or just what they had in general. The weapons aren't part of the 3dmodel of a ship, they attach to points on the model. The only way to change the model is with 3D studio max, and i'm not the one to ask about that ;)

[bigboywooly]

You can't add or remove funnels,superstructure .. etc. The eqp file is used to change what weapons a ship/plane/sub has based on the time of year, or just what they had in general. The weapons aren't part of the 3dmodel of a ship, they attach to points on the model. The only way to change the model is with 3D studio max, and i'm not the one to ask about that ;)

Not strictly true
SH4 used the eqp method to change the towers on the Colorado

[Equipment 5]
NodeName=Y01
LinkName=NBB_Colorado_tower
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19420931

[Equipment 6]
NodeName=Y01
LinkName=NBB_Colorado_tower_late
StartDate=19421001
EndDate=19491231

So is possible in SH5 I guess

[wamphyri]

Not strictly true
SH4 used the eqp method to change the towers on the Colorado

[Equipment 5]
NodeName=Y01
LinkName=NBB_Colorado_tower
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19420931

[Equipment 6]
NodeName=Y01
LinkName=NBB_Colorado_tower_late
StartDate=19421001
EndDate=19491231

So is possible in SH5 I guess

In a case like that then the main model wouldn't have the tower modeled into it, and it would act just like a weapon point or radar point. I haven't found any ships in sh5 that have that same possibility. About the best a person could do without changing the 3d model is to have something appear where one of the guns would normally be, tho I tried to do this and the game just crashed.

[bigboywooly]

In a case like that then the main model wouldn't have the tower modeled into it, and it would act just like a weapon point or radar point. I haven't found any ships in sh5 that have that same possibility. About the best a person could do without changing the 3d model is to have something appear where one of the guns would normally be, tho I tried to do this and the game just crashed.

Did you rename the node to a Y node ?
Model needs the Y node to attach those parts

Yes you are correct in that the SH5 units have funnels etc all modelled in
And would take an editor such as Goblin to remodel those
But is doable

No mileage in just cloning what we have
Ther are already 4 units using the Liberty model :stare:

I can see the OPs point
There isnt enough variety in units
Where are the fishing vessels ?
Smallest unit for merchants is 1850 then next is over 4000 then all over 6700

Not to mention the age old issue of Germany having allied units - Liberty errrm ok
As the point of the game is to sink ships you would have thought there would have been a decent mix on release
But alas again
NO

[wamphyri]

Yeh I know what you mean with there not being enough variety. In doing my plane mod I found out there aren't very many different planes. Most just use the same model but give different stats or loadout. But for me to add more I need all new models for more planes. Maybe I can pilfer some from sh3/4 :)

[iambecomelife]

Agree 100% - this is probably one of the worst stock merchant selections for any game in the SH series. When I last played I almost sank a liberty ship before I realized that it was operating under the Nazi flag - utterly ludicrous. All in all, a VERY slapdash effort IMHO. Sergbuto asked the powers-that-be some pointed questions about why they changed the 3d model format (thus making it difficult to import SH3/SH4/modded vessels) - to my knowledge he didn't get a straight answer.

[bigboywooly]

Sergbuto asked the powers-that-be some pointed questions about why they changed the 3d model format (thus making it difficult to import SH3/SH4/modded vessels) - to my knowledge he didn't get a straight answer.

DLC :hmmm:

[Galanti]

Yeah, it's so bad that I was going to make anything remotely resembling a merchant ship into a ad hoc merchant ship by adding .cfgs to the Brit SEA roster folder....but they've already done that.

[elanaiba]

Agree 100% - this is probably one of the worst stock merchant selections for any game in the SH series. When I last played I almost sank a liberty ship before I realized that it was operating under the Nazi flag - utterly ludicrous. All in all, a VERY slapdash effort IMHO. Sergbuto asked the powers-that-be some pointed questions about why they changed the 3d model format (thus making it difficult to import SH3/SH4/modded vessels) - to my knowledge he didn't get a straight answer.

Conspiracy Theory?!

I don't know where sergbutto asked but there was no intention to make SH3/4 modded vessels hard to import. The change to .gr2 format is just a problem of technology advance that we needed. We had TONS of issues with the old format and exporter.

Adding new ships should be easier - work in a modelling tool as its normal instead of hacking existing ships. This was one of the things we aimed - to allow people to freely add new ships/objects.

Its just that people are used to having this or that ship and of course if they worked, it would have been great.

Agree that the merchants selection is poor, and that is partly my fault.

[bigboywooly]

Conspiracy Theory?!

I don't know where sergbutto asked but there was no intention to make SH3/4 modded vessels hard to import. The change to .gr2 format is just a problem of technology advance that we needed. We had TONS of issues with the old format and exporter.


Ok so you needed to advance technology due to problems with the old system
Can see that

Adding new ships should be easier - work in a modelling tool as its normal instead of hacking existing ships. This was one of the things we aimed - to allow people to freely add new ships/objects. Now there lies part of the problem
As you know modders do stuff in their own time and modding doesnt come quick
A lack of 3d ship builders has always been a PITA
And some form of tutorial\instructions on how to import using the new system would have been a good idea
Cos you just know we all want more merchants yesterday :O:

Agree that the merchants selection is poor, and that is partly my fault.Have to say I like your honesty
Of course a lot of us think new units will become available in a DLC
May be the course or may be you ran out of time :hmmm:

Appreciate the answers tho

[tater]

To do it with the eqp file, the objects you'd wish to move need to already be known so you can place them.

You can also make a real clone, and move the bits around—far easier in SH4 with S3D, open ship, move stuff, save ship. Done, trivially. Dunno about SH5.

If SH5 also reads dats, you could perhaps add some SH4 ships that you have altered easily with S3D?

(seems possible given dan's post, below. S3D is your friend, you can bang out all kinds of goodness in that case).

[elanaiba]

I wonder how the AOTD gang were able to import these aircraft:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163515

I'm pretty sure those are SH4 era dat files, part of one of their mods?

[wamphyri]

To do it with the eqp file, the objects you'd wish to move need to already be known so you can place them.

You can also make a real clone, and move the bits around—far easier in SH4 with S3D, open ship, move stuff, save ship. Done, trivially. Dunno about SH5.

If SH5 also reads dats, you could perhaps add some SH4 ships that you have altered easily with S3D?

I think it should be possible. Not everything has a .gr2 file part in the library folder. Some just have a .dat to hold the 3d models.

[bigboywooly]

I think it should be possible. Not everything has a .gr2 file part in the library folder. Some just have a .dat to hold the 3d models.

True there are many dats in the Library
But ALL the ships are in GR2 format - *:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Sea

Do hope someone can get something going on though however its done
The same 7 or 8 units is a bit wearing
Esp if you come across a large convoy with multiples of each one :doh:

[bigboywooly]

I wonder how the AOTD gang were able to import these aircraft:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163515

I'm pretty sure those are SH4 era dat files, part of one of their mods?

Yes wondered that
Though not seen a ship yet
All the ways I tried showed with no textures

[tater]

Do the SH5 roster files work the same way in terms of pointing at the textures?

Might be worth looking at how AOTD did it.

[bigboywooly]

Do the SH5 roster files work the same way in terms of pointing at the textures?

Might be worth looking at how AOTD did it.

Yes they do
Tried that too
Dan did post in another thread to try a different way but that didnt work either
And he is a dev
lol

Have the AOTD pack so will have a look I think anyway

[sergei]

All the ways I tried showed with no textures

I managed to get an SH4 ship to show up in the museum with a texture.
But I cannot get the game to apply the occlusion map.
The roster cfg points at it, but the game ain't reading it.
Been pulling my hair out over this one for a few weeks.

[bigboywooly]

I managed to get an SH4 ship to show up in the museum with a texture.
But I cannot get the game to apply the occlusion map.
The roster cfg points at it, but the game ain't reading it.
Been pulling my hair out over this one for a few weeks.


Odd it shows there but not ingame

[sergei]

Sorry, I worded that badly.
I didn't mean ONLY in the museum :DL
That's a red herring. I should have left out the 'in the museum' bit.

I also made a single mission, and the SH4 ship had a texture.
Like I said, it's the O map I'm having problems with.

[tater]

Do the SH5 ships have an o-map done the same way?

Could it prefer DDS vs TGA, or vice versa? (just throwing stuff out there to see if anything sticks :) )

[sergei]

I have tried both dds and tga.
No dice.
But thanks for the suggestion Tater. :DL

[wamphyri]

I got a sh3 ship to show up in game with textures. Here's the armed tug from sh3.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-24_174022.jpg


http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-24_173838.jpg


The weapons aren't showing up properly but that's just has to do with naming and the .eqp file

[Sailor Steve]

:o WOOHOO! :yeah:

[tater]

Yeah, but SH3 models look lousy in SH4, and more so in SH5 I imagine. The trick will be the $#%@!$#@! o-maps (god, I hate those things :) ).

[wamphyri]

yeh .. I'm trying to figure that one out also. But the only reason sh3 ships looks so lousy is their textures. I'm sure someone out there is good at texturing, I can't draw worth a damn :har:

[tater]

yeh .. I'm trying to figure that one out also. But the only reason sh3 ships looks so lousy is their textures. I'm sure someone out there is good at texturing, I can't draw worth a damn :har:

SH textures are non-trivial. If the templates were even as simple as those in Il-2, we'd have, heck, thousands of skins already done I'm sure. Skinning ships is such a huge PITA, almost no one does it, when it should be one of the more accessible ways for players to visually mod.

It literally takes doing the paint job in a 3D program I think. I tried and gave up in SH4, I simply lacked the mojo for more than a simple color replacement (I tried to make a template like you would in il-2, no dice).

[Sailor Steve]

You're probably right, and it's going to take work, but in light of the problems people have been having getting SH4 ships to even appear in SH5, this seems to be a breakthrough.

[gimpy117]

yeah i think newly modeled ships are a must. Sh4 ships look passable in Sh5...but not sh3 ships

but don't worry...if there's a way subsim can find it! :arrgh!: :salute:

[bigboywooly]

Cool but hideous
:har:
still at least it worked and thats a start

[tater]

yeah i think newly modeled ships are a must. Sh4 ships look passable in Sh5...but not sh3 ships

but don't worry...if there's a way subsim can find it! :arrgh!: :salute:

Yeah, if the o-maps can be made to work. :up:


It's that thought that makes me interested in a sans-DRM version---a total conversion to the pacific. dumping everything in from SH4.

[wamphyri]

I just can't fathom why my sh4 models won't appear with a texture. It's driving me crazy.

[wamphyri]

Well I managed to get a sh4 ship to display textures. It isn't pretty as these screenshots will show. I'm working on making a small tutorial about what I did for both the sh3 and sh4 models so that others may pickup where I left off. For those astute to recognize .. I had tried to import a sh4 fishing vessel. Can you see what's wrong with it? There are many thing wrong with it. Time could fix it all(easily).. I did this all in an hour including testing. But it wasn't as easy as importing a sh3 model. The biggest thing is I can't get them to appear with all the fantastic sh4 effects, this one doesn't look much different from my sh3 one other than better textures. Le Sigh

BEHOLD .. the lack of might of the sh4 fishing trawler!!!
http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-25_020401.jpg

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-25_020357.jpg

[sergei]

Good stuff wamphyri.
I got that far - see image

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1619/sh5attempt.jpg

It's got a basic texture, but so far all my attempts to apply the bump and occlusion maps have defeated me.

Did you have to embed the tex file into the dat (that's the only way I could get it to show) or did you find another way?

[coronas]

@Sergei:
Dan said oclusion map is missing. How add to your model?

[sergei]

How add to your model?
I wish I knew. That's the thing I cannot figure out.

[coronas]

I wish I knew. That's the thing I cannot figure out.


:nope::nope::nope::damn:

I hope you find a solution soon. :sunny:

A link: http://www.modthesims.info/printthread.php?t=369089

:salute:

[Mav87th]

I'm not sure about others, but for me to sit like a dog and clap in my hands we don't need fancy textures or what not. If any (and i mean any) ship with realistic shape can get into SH-5 and have there German merchants be substituted from Liberty Freighters, it have my 100% support.

I'm fed up with that unrealistic and terrible error that UBI made there

IMO those fishing vessels and that freighter above can sail around in my SH-5 without me giving any wind about bad texturing....

Feed us the ships :D

[wamphyri]

Good stuff wamphyri.
It's got a basic texture, but so far all my attempts to apply the bump and occlusion maps have defeated me.

Did you have to embed the tex file into the dat (that's the only way I could get it to show) or did you find another way?

Like you I could only get it to show if I put the textures into the dat. I think the biggest problem is the controller that sh4 used to add the bump and occlusion maps isn't compatible with sh5. So it seems like we're kinda stuck since sh5 has all that stuff in the granny file and doesn't use a controller for it.

We may have to turn our powers over to making textures that give the appearance of occlusion/bump.

[sergei]

Thanks for the reply wamphyri. :DL
I was beginning to think I had missed something obvious.

We may have to turn our powers over to making textures that give the appearance of occlusion/bump.

I dunno where to start with this really. But I'll have a go and see what I can come up with.

[coronas]

I did a search in Google and found and article about an old Ubi game (Catz and Dogz):
"The textures files are in the Textures/ folder in plain dds format."

Are textures in .dat TGA files? Try convert .TGA to .DDS.

[wamphyri]

I did a search in Google and found and article about an old Ubi game (Catz and Dogz):
"The textures files are in the Textures/ folder in plain dds format."

Are textures in .dat TGA files? Try convert .TGA to .DDS.

no no .. that's not the problem. In sh4 the textures can be changed just by changing a txt file to point you at a different texture to use. But sh5 doesn't support this it seems so we have to put the textures directly into the .dat, either .tga or .dds, their both supported.

[coronas]

Thanks for the answer. I´ll keep searching. :yep:

[sergei]

Hey thanks for trying coronas :up:
Keep looking, you might find something we have overlooked.

[wamphyri]

It'd be so nice if we could get out paws on granny .. but a license for it is a nice even $10k. A little out of my reach :)

[tater]

Have you tried putting the o-map in the dat as a material in S3D?

[wamphyri]

Have you tried putting the o-map in the dat as a material in S3D?

yeh :( and I bet sergei has tried even more things than that.

[Madox58]

There is no UnifiedRender controller in SH5
so the path stuff is not going to work.
Granny files work differently from the old dat file days.
You need to look very closely at them with Granny Viewer.

You also need to look at other files for clues to controllers that
may replace the UnifiedRender Controller.

I'll be testing a few Controllers I found this weekend if
the 'Gremlin' leaves me alone long enuff.

[iambecomelife]

I finally managed to get the Akita from SH4 in with proper textures. However, because the texture has to be embedded directly in the file there can only be one skin per merchant ship model.

It also doesn't help that there are still weird issues (the ship's stern is too low in the water for no apparent reason) and that I'm unhappy with DRM, crew ghosting through bulkheads, bad dialogue, bad camera angles, etc etc etc.

All in all, this has left a bad taste in my mouth. I could go into more detail about how frustrating these SH5 "improvements" are, but I guess I'll get back to modeling & skinning for the next Merchant Fleet Mod version.:roll:

[bigboywooly]

I finally managed to get the Akita from SH4 in with proper textures. However, because the texture has to be embedded directly in the file there can only be one skin per merchant ship model.



So how exactly did you get the textures to show ?

Embedding the textures alone in the dat hasnt worked for me or others in the thread here

:hmmm:

[wamphyri]

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-28_011654.jpg

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Mythandar-eve/SH5Img2010-03-28_011659.jpg

Yes you guessed it. That's the Yamato flying an american flag :rotfl2:

Turns out bigboywooly that it was easier than I thought. For this ship there's 3 materials listed. For all 3 I embedded an image under them, I used the regular texture because after testing I think there's no way that sh5 will use a bumpmap or occlusion map from a dat. Then I also told it to use an explicit texture, the same texture that I embedded and make sure to change the texture filters at the bottom of that page to linear because with point the mipmap goes all wonky. (eventually I found out which ones needed a texture and which ones were for the occlusion and bump map.. not that we can use them tho:wah:)

If I didn't do it exactly this way I'd just get the grey model in game. iambecomelife mentioned that we'd only be able to use one texture/ship but with them changing to granny files we have that anyways, but atleast now we can clone ships and give them each their own texture.

This gets the texture showing but I noticed that some things still need to be fixed, but this is to be expected. Hope this gets the ball rolling for everyone.

[tater]

That Yamato has no o-map, clearly.

Yamato in SH4:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tatersw/SH4/Y3.jpg

[bigboywooly]

Yes you guessed it. That's the Yamato flying an american flag :rotfl2:

Turns out bigboywooly that it was easier than I thought. For this ship there's 3 materials listed. For all 3 I embedded an image under them, I used the regular texture because after testing I think there's no way that sh5 will use a bumpmap or occlusion map from a dat. Then I also told it to use an explicit texture, the same texture that I embedded and make sure to change the texture filters at the bottom of that page to linear because with point the mipmap goes all wonky. (eventually I found out which ones needed a texture and which ones were for the occlusion and bump map.. not that we can use them tho:wah:)

If I didn't do it exactly this way I'd just get the grey model in game. iambecomelife mentioned that we'd only be able to use one texture/ship but with them changing to granny files we have that anyways, but atleast now we can clone ships and give them each their own texture.

This gets the texture showing but I noticed that some things still need to be fixed, but this is to be expected. Hope this gets the ball rolling for everyone.

lol arrived at same conclusion myself earlier

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/SH5/SH3unit.jpg

SH3 units deff look better with out the additional textures
BUT
No damage model - shells go right through
AI needs altering to new ones plus a lot more I guess

[wamphyri]

lol arrived at same conclusion myself earlier

SH3 units deff look better with out the additional textures
BUT
No damage model - shells go right through
AI needs altering to new ones plus a lot more I guess

When I was trying to sink the yamato for fun I noticed something odd. A torp with a magnetic trigger would hit it fine, but an impact pistol and the torp would go right through it like the 88's shells do.

Plus nothing I tried would get the o-map to show. I tried everything. I'm no graphic artist but was wondering if it's possible to somehow get the o-map to combine with the texture map. I tried using blender to import the 3d model, apply the texture and the o-map then I would try and export it as one texture, but I don't know enough about any of that to do it right, or if it's even possible (instead of having the sh5 3d engine do it).

[tater]

Do SH5 roster files look like those in SH4? Do any of those point at an o-map, or are all smashed into the granny file? If that is the case, does that mean that SH5 ships cannot have more than one skin per 3d model?

SH4 was an improvement over SH3 in that you could reuse the same model by pointing a new ship name at it, allowing variants without extra system loads. Is SH5 a step backwards in this regard?

[bigboywooly]

Do SH5 roster files look like those in SH4? Do any of those point at an o-map, or are all smashed into the granny file? If that is the case, does that mean that SH5 ships cannot have more than one skin per 3d model?

SH4 was an improvement over SH3 in that you could reuse the same model by pointing a new ship name at it, allowing variants without extra system loads. Is SH5 a step backwards in this regard?

Many cfgs still piont to a texture in the Sea folder but lookin there and most have none
In the texture folder though again not all
Seems there is no system
So yes a step backwards
Was something I really liked about SH4 in regards to textures
No need to use an ext program to date change them
You can still use one model to be 2 ships using the cfg
As in the case of the Littoria and Duilio :doh:

ClassName=BBLittorio
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NBB_Littorio/NBB_VV

RL http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/SH5/Littorio_class_battleship.jpg

Unit]
ClassName=BBDuilio
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NBB_Littorio/NBB_VV

RL http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/SH5/Profilo_e_pianta_Duilio_ricostruito.jpg

Close but no cigar esp as both have exact same eqp

So looks like that feature still works but textures are another ball game altogether

[tater]

Having the clones with alternate textures is so important, though.

Sad there are no dev posts WRT this issue. It seems a huge backwards step unless their business model is to sell ships. The trouble of course being that you'd have to pay for the new ships AND bust your chops to fix them to look right because whoever makes them is unfamiliar with the terms "google" or "library."

;)

[wamphyri]

I've taken the textures out of the directories and haven't had anything happen because of it. Looks like it's a step backwards with all the textures jammed into the granny file, so in fact we have no way of changing the textures at all in a sh5 model. Plus the 3d engine changed so that certain things like the 0-map only work from a granny file :wah:

[tater]

Wow, that sucks for merchants in particular. The ships that most need large numbers of variant paint jobs, and it's impossible without a new dat (granny, whatever) for each?

[wamphyri]

Well we can't change the sh5 ships but we can make multiple copies of sh4 ships.. just make copies of the files and change the texture in the dat. They'd each have to have their own directory and the campaign would have to be changed to include them. Nothing as easy as sh4 let us do. So definitely a step back.

Edit - I believe a granny file can be imported to 3dsmax so we can change the texture .. but not like in sh4

[bigboywooly]

Wow, that sucks for merchants in particular. The ships that most need large numbers of variant paint jobs, and it's impossible without a new dat (granny, whatever) for each?

Not sure how the granny dats work re skins
As you say no input from the devs on this
My own thoughts are its to sell DLC ship packs
For a game thats supposed to be the most moddable it sure isnt
Ok the Ui and Ai are - only cos they didnt finish it
Adding units and correcting the current ones is right up there in what should be moddable
Doesnt seem to be the case this time

Perhaps they all want us to go buy granny 3d at around $ 8000
Hmmmm ok
Dan already said in one post - Adding new ships should be easier - work in a modelling tool as its normal instead of hacking existing ships. This was one of the things we aimed - to allow people to freely add new ships/objects.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1331402&postcount=10

:har:

[bigboywooly]

Well we can't change the sh5 ships but we can make multiple copies of sh4 ships.. just make copies of the files and change the texture in the dat. They'd each have to have their own directory and the campaign would have to be changed to include them. Nothing as easy as sh4 let us do. So definitely a step back.

Edit - I believe a granny file can be imported to 3dsmax so we can change the texture .. but not like in sh4

Yeah but you dont want 5 versions of the same ship just for a texture change
Have that now with 4 versions of the Liberty
Will soon bloat the Sea folder which ultimately will lead to slower loading
Granted the engine is much better than SH3 but with 228 units in the Sea folder ( my GWX install ) that can take forever to load

I cant believe thats the way to go with textures
Has to be another
Maybe when we understand the granny files a lil better
Or we get some dev input
:06:

[wamphyri]

Yeah but you dont want 5 versions of the same ship just for a texture change
Have that now with 4 versions of the Liberty
Will soon bloat the Sea folder which ultimately will lead to slower loading
Granted the engine is much better than SH3 but with 228 units in the Sea folder ( my GWX install ) that can take forever to load

I cant believe thats the way to go with textures
Has to be another
Maybe when we understand the granny files a lil better
Or we get some dev input
:06:

Got this little tid bit off the www.radgametools.com site .. the ppl who make granny:

"Is there any way that I can control the loading and changing of texture maps rather than Granny? Yes. You have two options. If you want to simply change texture maps, that's easy, because you control what texture is loaded at render-time - so you are free to not use the texture reference that Granny gives you. If you'd like to do all the texture handling yourself (and have Granny do no texture handling whatsoever), you can export all your models without any included textures at all. This will force Granny to embed only the texture and material names, but no bitmap data. You can then use these names to load your own textures with your own texture management system."

So we know that the dat's act as a texture management system. I just wonder what the devs have left open for us.

[bigboywooly]

Got this little tid bit off the www.radgametools.com (http://www.radgametools.com) site .. the ppl who make granny:

"Is there any way that I can control the loading and changing of texture maps rather than Granny? Yes. You have two options. If you want to simply change texture maps, that's easy, because you control what texture is loaded at render-time - so you are free to not use the texture reference that Granny gives you. If you'd like to do all the texture handling yourself (and have Granny do no texture handling whatsoever), you can export all your models without any included textures at all. This will force Granny to embed only the texture and material names, but no bitmap data. You can then use these names to load your own textures with your own texture management system."

So we know that the dat's act as a texture management system. I just wonder what the devs have left open for us.

Interesting
Thanx for posting that
So Granny files dont need to have the texture in the GR2 just the names
As long as we use some other texture management system
Hmmm

I guess with the old SH3 and 4 dats we are stuck for the mo then
The devs will know how those files use textures as still many dats - Not GR2s - in the Library though how many are just left in from previous releases I dont know

:hmmm:

[wamphyri]

Interesting
Thanx for posting that
So Granny files dont need to have the texture in the GR2 just the names
As long as we use some other texture management system
Hmmm

I guess with the old SH3 and 4 dats we are stuck for the mo then
The devs will know how those files use textures as still many dats - Not GR2s - in the Library though how many are just left in from previous releases I dont know

:hmmm:

I hope they have allowed dats to be a texture managment system and we're just doing one little thing wrong like with getting sh3/4 ships to show textures. It ended up being so simple but took some fiddling to figure out exactly how the game wanted the dat to be.

[Madox58]

I've only been able to test with Goblin so far but..............

I've got an SH4 Unit that shows up there with it's skin showing
and the texture is NOT in the dat file!

So it seems there is hope.
:hmmm:

[wamphyri]

I've only been able to test with Goblin so far but..............

I've got an SH4 Unit that shows up there with it's skin showing
and the texture is NOT in the dat file!

So it seems there is hope.
:hmmm:

plz explain. It shows in goblin with a texture?

[Madox58]

Yes!

I'm doing some further testing and asking a few questions of
several people right now.

But the dds is NOT in the dat file itself!
I can't run SH5 on my system but Goblin shows
this unit with the texture in place.
:|\\

[wamphyri]

Yes!

I'm doing some further testing and asking a few questions of
several people right now.

But the dds is NOT in the dat file itself!
I can't run SH5 on my system but Goblin shows
this unit with the texture in place.
:|\\

And your using s3d to make sure the texture isn't in the dat?

[Madox58]

Mate!

Believe me there is no texture in the dat file at all!
It's in the texture folder!

I do use S3D but I can read the files in Hex also.
Make NO mistake about that!

Plus I have my own program for certain things.
:03:

[wamphyri]

Mate!

Believe me there is no texture in the dat file at all!
It's in the texture folder!

I do use S3D but I can read the files in Hex also.
Make NO mistake about that!

Plus I have my own program for certain things.
:03:

I had to be sure :salute:

This comes as good news .. it'd be even better news if you told us you got the o-maps to show too :rotfl2::har::haha::damn:

Can't wait to find out how you did it.

[Madox58]

This may be a part of doing just that.
:hmmm:

I'm going to do more testing as I said.
S3D played a big part of doing this.
But there's something else that has to be done also.

Knowledge of the GR2 files was absolutely needed to get this far.
:up:

[sergei]

Outstanding work Privateer. :up:
I'll be following this closely.

[elanaiba]

The difference between SH4 and 5 is that in 5 many of the ships use more than one texture for the diffuse maps.

Those can be found in SilentHunter5\data\Textures\TNormal\tex

For example, Black Swan Sloops uses the following textures:


ship_T02.dds
ship_N02.dds
ship_hull_T02.dds
ship_hull_N02.dds

Beware! Some of them are shared between multiple ships, which means changing it for one ship changes it for the others too. Normally you wouldn't need to do it, can change just the Ambient occlusion texture as we did for many ships in the game.

If you really must, make a copy of each texture you need to modify and add a suffix to it - for example



ship_T02blue.dds
ship_N02blue.dds

Then all you need to do is add the following in the roster file:

[Texture 2]
TextureName=*blue.dds

Check Northampton, Brooklyn and the AMC version of Rawalpindi for reference.

[wamphyri]

The difference between SH4 and 5 is that in 5 many of the ships use more than one texture for the diffuse maps.

Those can be found in SilentHunter5\data\Textures\TNormal\tex

For example, Black Swan Sloops uses the following textures:


ship_T02.dds
ship_N02.dds
ship_hull_T02.dds
ship_hull_N02.dds

Beware! Some of them are shared between multiple ships, which means changing it for one ship changes it for the others too. Normally you wouldn't need to do it, can change just the Ambient occlusion texture as we did for many ships in the game.

If you really must, make a copy of each texture you need to modify and add a suffix to it - for example



ship_T02blue.dds
ship_N02blue.dds

Then all you need to do is add the following in the roster file:

[Texture 2]
TextureName=*blue.dds

Check Northampton, Brooklyn and the AMC version of Rawalpindi for reference.

Awesome Dan thanks. That solves one mystery. Now I have to ask if we can get the sh4 ships to show their normal and occlusion maps also?

[tater]

Then it's just a path thing, no?

You import a SH4 ship, and put the textures where you expected them to belong, and the default path is really SilentHunter5\data\Textures\TNormal\tex

instead of SilentHunter5\data\Sea\Ship_name

?

You might try importing the SH4 ship, and (pick one with a name unused by SH5 for simplicity) throw the textures (including the o-map) in SilentHunter5\data\Textures\TNormal\tex and see what happens.

That would be what I'd try first.

[wamphyri]

I tried that before I posted the thanks to dan. No luck :wah:

[Madox58]

You need to enable explicit texture in the dat and name it to the texture
you want.
But do not implant it!
Place the texture in the tex folder.
For the 8/0 Node name it seems pretty much anything will work.
But I suggest cfg#TXRStructuri
as that is found in the Granny files and we may as well get a system standard set.

Then try the stuff Dan suggested.

[coronas]

I found this texturing tutorial about AoE:
How make a bumpmap
http://www.ne.elpea.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=505

[rascal101]

HI to you and thanks for joining in this discussion, forgive me if I am stating the obvious but are you one of the dev team -

If so I wonder if you can provide some hints or ideas as to how to modify the game to offer more diversity or improve game play


Best Regards

Rascal

Conspiracy Theory?!

I don't know where sergbutto asked but there was no intention to make SH3/4 modded vessels hard to import. The change to .gr2 format is just a problem of technology advance that we needed. We had TONS of issues with the old format and exporter.

Adding new ships should be easier - work in a modelling tool as its normal instead of hacking existing ships. This was one of the things we aimed - to allow people to freely add new ships/objects.

Its just that people are used to having this or that ship and of course if they worked, it would have been great.

Agree that the merchants selection is poor, and that is partly my fault.

[Madox58]

It's pretty simple to make the Normals and Ambient Occlusion Textures.
The problem right now is the Game won't use them from a dat.
I really do not believe that will be a problem for long.

I can see one of 2 things happening soon.

1. The Engine is adapted to use them
2. Some kind of adjustment to the Granny system that would allow
them to release a way to import to the GR2 files.
Much like NeverWinters, EVE, and others did.

[Madox58]

In the interm, adding a very good Alph channel to
the main dds file does wonders.

It is not time to give up Guys.
Work the files.
Or have you given up?
:hmmm:

[bigboywooly]

Yeah they can look pretty
but
Have no damage model :damn:
So you cant sink one even if you get the thing ingame
Which is simple

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/SH5/NFBoat4-2.jpg

[Madox58]

I pretty sure I know how to fix the damage model stuff.
I need to finish some tests on our "Secret Project".
But it looks good so far.

I just hate seeing all the other Guys giveing up.
:nope:

[bigboywooly]

Pretty sure they havent
I guess most are waiting to see what santa brings in his patch
What it fixes - and breaks
Am sure will be a flood of posts after thats released
Pretty quiet on the whole in here since was announced

[wamphyri]

Could you point me to a tutorial about adding an alpha channel that would look good. I'm not much of a graphics guy. Maybe I'll work on getting the damage model working.

[Madox58]

I'll dig out some info I think I still have from Ichneumon.
He was, and remains to this day,
the best I've ever seen at doing Alpha stuff for SH.
Bar none!

[wamphyri]

this damage model is being a Willey little creature. Everything I see between sh4 and sh5 should have it working... there's probably something really small and simple just like getting sh4 ship textures to work.

[Madox58]

There is a few things missing.
Open a ships GR2 file with Granny Viewer.
(You do have that right?)
Notice there is a dmg object for stock SH5 Units?
Also shows in Goblin.
We need to put same in SH4/3 converts.
This is for damages to show on a hit.
The damages from old zon files will not connect until you run
everything through Goblin.
It's a PITA to do, but it works.
Same with the sim file.
You must rebuild through Goblin.
It's again, a PITA to use Goblin but it does work.

If I have one thing I'd bitch about?
It's the lack of instructions for Goblin.
So if the Devs are watching?
Give us a guide PLEASE!

[wamphyri]

There is a few things missing.
Open a ships GR2 file with Granny Viewer.
(You do have that right?)
Notice there is a dmg object for stock SH5 Units?
Also shows in Goblin.
We need to put same in SH4/3 converts.
This is for damages to show on a hit.
The damages from old zon files will not connect until you run
everything through Goblin.
It's a PITA to do, but it works.
Same with the sim file.
You must rebuild through Goblin.
It's again, a PITA to use Goblin but it does work.

If I have one thing I'd bitch about?
It's the lack of instructions for Goblin.
So if the Devs are watching?
Give us a guide PLEASE!

When you say rebuild .. do you mean all of the damage zones? cause then i'd have to agree.. huge PITA.

Hmm .. goblin screws up dats.. it takes the model and texture data right out. No biggie as controllers can be thrown in the other files.

I'm trying a few things out from what you said and maybe i'll get lucky.