[WIP] U-Boat Killer AI Mod

[Nisgeis]

At the moment the AI sees one of its ships explodes and thinks 'Oooh that's pretty' and then goes back to reading its book, without trying to find out what happened to make the ship explode. Even when they actually spot you, they seem a bit dis-interested and go to investigate with all the enthusiasm of a sulky child who's been told to tidy his bedroom.

So, here's the first part of a WIP mod that aims to get the AI into the game.

For anyone that wants to test, the latest version is v1.02:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1663

Thanks to Ducimus for the AI timeout fix. Thanks to TheBlobThing for his suggestion to change the thermal layer. I was just going to mod the AI scripts, but after thinking about it, it doesn' make sense if all you have to do is dive down a bit to lose them.

v 1.02.

Changes:

DC damage radius upped - DC previously had to be dropped with 4 metres of your sub to do damage and I was fed up with a DC run and no damage whatsoever. Now you get shaken up a tad, but nothing serious. Just enough to know they were close.
Spiral Searching now works and the DDs can re-acquire you. Not perfect yet, but getting there.
Thermal Layer changed to not have an effect.
Added proportioanl response - More DDs come to investigate if there are more escorts.


Version 1 - Escorts close distance to a contact fast, prebiously it was on 0.3 throttle. Escorts will slow to acquire a target if they have lost it.
Escorts now investigate unknown targets, so no more enemy harbour picnics.
Version 1.01 - Escorts now initiate spiral search after a contact has been lost for.

[captainprid]

This looks brilliant!!! Just what I have been waiting for!!

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Already on the top of my download list ! Can't wait to actualy be hunted. Keep us posted and keep up the good work. Thank you !!!!!:yeah:

Download what you have done so far so we can test it for you and give info, ANYTHING is better than what we have now.

[Bilge_Rat]

In the "PQ-17" single mission, when you torpedo a merchant man, escorts will rush over to try and find you.

There may be a script involved. You may want to take a look at the mission file.

[Coldcall]

Bring it on! :-) Sounds excellent! I'm getting really tired of the flaky AI.

[Ablemaster]

The ai needs some work for sure, anything that improves gameplay is good by me, thanks will try this out.

[coronas]

Can be linked with this?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1329355&postcount=1

[reaper7]

Gandalfi2005 has just released a scripting AI mod, you should get together ans bump heads.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165899 :up:

[Nisgeis]

First version is up and available for testing, for those souls who want to.

EDIT: Link removed, see first post for latest version.

I'd advise not using any sensor mods with this! Feedback would be greatly appreciated, if you can spare the time. Thanks! This is only ships versus subs AI at the moment. From what I have seen, the early AC don't have any weapons, so they don't attack. This should make harbour attack and convoy attacks more dangerous and being spotted will be even more dangerous.

[Nisgeis]

Can be linked with this?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1329355&postcount=1

Well, the info there isn't quite right. Unfortunately in stock the Operation Spiral Search never becomes active, due to the AI timeout occuring before the operation was due to come into effect. Ducimus suggested a change which worked and now Spiral Searches don't work very well, instead of at all. Will get to work on that later. Lots to do!

[coronas]

Thanks for the answer!
Step by step you are doing a great work. :yeah:
:salute:

[Coldcall]

just returned to port in a new campaign so will try this out on some early Atlantic missions.

Thanks.

[Nisgeis]

The AI Scripting should be patrol independant, so as long as you shut the game down before you install it, you should be able to run it from a save game on patrol. Using the AI debugger, you can re-load the scripts on the fly with the game running and it works mid-engagement. :DL. Gord bless those devs.

[Heretic]

The AI Scripting should be patrol independant, so as long as you shut the game down before you install it, you should be able to run it from a save game on patrol. Using the AI debugger, you can re-load the scripts on the fly with the game running and it works mid-engagement. :DL. Gord bless those devs.

Have you reloaded scripts successfully? When I tried that with the crew ai, they either lose all their strategies or crash the program.

[Nisgeis]

Well, the scripts are different per category and I've only been dealing with the units, so the 'sim' category, but reloading scripts isn't a problem. Refreshing can cause a crash, if you have a behaviour or unit selected which is not loaded. When you first load the AI debugger, select the category, then click refresh, BEFORE selecting anything in the second drop down, as for whatever reason, it will list all the old behaviours that may not be loaded and will crash the game if you try to access them. For example, if you are looking at a ship that sinks, then pressing refressh the game will crash, as that unit no longer exists.

EDIT: Oh yeah and if you muff up a script, it will crash the game if you reload the scripts, but then again the game won't restart with muffed up AI scripts.

[Heretic]

Thanks. I think I always had something selected in the 2nd dropdown.

[Will-Rommel]

Downloaded, will start testing tonight or tomorrow. :salute:

[Nisgeis]

Thanks Will-Rommel, feedback would be appreciated, so I can kill you all. I mean, improve the AI.

[Will-Rommel]

No problem, will report here as soon as i see actions. (Should be plenty of, it's the happy days) :ping:

[Coldcall]

Nisgeis,

I ran into 3 destroyers in Atlantic, coming at them head-on, decided to take one of them down and see what the rest would do, thinking presumably they will treat one of their own being hit as they would a merchant they are protecting.

So i went silent running, and went to periscope depth about 4 km away from the first destroyer heading the group, foggy weather so their visibility was poor. I kept engines running at about 3knots and hit the first one with two torps about 2km distance. He sunk almost immediately and i just kept same heading (through them).

I immediatley noticed that right after my torps hit, the remaining two Destroyers increased their speeds dramatically to 34-36 knots, but it took them a while to actually turn around, but they did, and then their lights came on and they started hunting for me. By that time i was at about where i had sunk the first ship and i just kept going. They started doing search patters with the lights but i had evaded the net -so to speak, they were a little slow off the mark to begin the search.

So while they werent hard to evade your mod definitely worked in that they noticed, and then started looking for the culprit.

Thats all so far, will let you know future enocounters.

[Nisgeis]

Thanks Coldcall. They should get into the vicinity, but the current logic isn't very good - they'll just keep going around where they think you are, dropping DCs. I've got the lost contact procedure working, in that they now will do a spiral search (which was broken in two places, so even if triggered it wouldn't have worked). I'll also have the ammo saving in soon, with a weighting given to how old the contact data is - e.g. as it is now, if the sub was there five years ago, the destroyer will still drop DCs on that spot. Lost contact procedure is hit and miss, as you can travel quite a way from the scene of the crime and they are a bit slow to do a full circle. The 'thermal layer' is also acting like a cloak of invisibility.

Eventually, I will have different behaviours for different situations - e.g. if they are escorting a convoy their priority will be to keep you down and unable to get another shot off, if they are an HK group, they should stay around until you are dead or forced to surface.

All of this depends on realistic battery and CO2, if you are using infinite Battery and CO2, then it will be easy enough to outfox the AI, as you can travel a very long way at 7 knots underwater in an hour. Stay tuned for updates.

[Coldcall]

Thanks Coldcall. They should get into the vicinity, but the current logic isn't very good - they'll just keep going around where they think you are, dropping DCs. I've got the lost contact procedure working, in that they now will do a spiral search (which was broken in two places, so even if triggered it wouldn't have worked). I'll also have the ammo saving in soon, with a weighting given to how old the contact data is - e.g. as it is now, if the sub was there five years ago, the destroyer will still drop DCs on that spot. Lost contact procedure is hit and miss, as you can travel quite a way from the scene of the crime and they are a bit slow to do a full circle. The 'thermal layer' is also acting like a cloak of invisibility.

Eventually, I will have different behaviours for different situations - e.g. if they are escorting a convoy their priority will be to keep you down and unable to get another shot off, if they are an HK group, they should stay around until you are dead or forced to surface.

All of this depends on realistic battery and CO2, if you are using infinite Battery and CO2, then it will be easy enough to outfox the AI, as you can travel a very long way at 7 knots underwater in an hour. Stay tuned for updates.

That "missing contact" routine would explain why it takes them a little while to start the active search. Is it on a refresh so they check for eachother every x minutes?

Also forgot to say they were dropping depth charges for a long time but nowhere near my sub.

[Nisgeis]

That's what the stock behaviour would have been if it had worked, but they never came to investigate. Now they come to investigate, but the next part to get them to spiral search around also wasn't working, I've fixed both parts of that which will be in the next stage, but with the version you have, they'll steam around the last contact point. I'm not going to give any in depth details, as that would probably spoil things :-).

They drop DCs whenever they pass over the last point of contact, in a stupid way, so I will also fix that with some heuristics. I don't want to go mad and change loads at a time, as it will be hard to track what goes wrong. So, I'm keeping it as a progression for the time being, e.g. fix the first part, then the second part.

[Trublion]

Good Job on the scripts. A few "programming comments" if I may:

In ship-navigation.aix, if I read the code correctly for
ShipHeavyFollowSlowBlind
ShipHeavyFollowCloseDistance
ShipHeavyFollowAcquired

the line
# Ship:GetContactDepth() <= -7.0 and
(Ship:ContactIs(SUBMARINE) or Ship:ContactIs(UNITUNKNOWN) or Ship:GetContactDepth() <= -5.0)....

means that ships will try to reacquire targets no matter if I am submerged or visible. As long as contact is SUBMARINE or UNITUNKNOWN, the depth does not matter. It used to matter, but was commented out.
May I ask the reason, not for sake of argument but more as an enlightenment.

[Will-Rommel]

Alright, back in my new Lorient base for report :

Run up against a HUGE convoy in the north atlantic, estimated 24-32 merchants carrying war supplies. The escort screen consisted of around 12 destroyers disposed in semi-circular formations at both ends of the convoy + the battleship HMS Royal Sovereign leading the way.

Put 2 fish in the capital ship, she listed badly but made it out at 4 knots, and sank 4 cargos before diving deep to escape the payback.

------ Tech part ------
The destroyers were quite confused because i attacked from inside the convoy with my engines shut down. Some scattered to investigate on the sides, 1 steamed trought the merchants at 34 knots and passed by me without noticing my presence. (submerged at 12m) I heard 2 pings but he was going way too fast to react.

After the battle i surfaced to finish a burning merchant with deck gun. He called a DD back wich steamed on my position full speed ahead. I dived to periscope depth to toy with him, but he didnt seemed to use active nor passive sonar... or maybe they were a green crew? Counted 15 DC drops, incorrect depth and location. (Around 100m from my position, detonation estimated at around 50m deep while i was diving to 120m at this time)

Good experience so far, a bit more fun than stock and more realistic than Ducimus first try. (His escorts were Uber, could track me easy at 180m with engines off)

[Coldcall]

okay my second encounter was with a small convoy in the Atlantic, protected by 3 destroyers 2 side and one at the back. I hit the convoy from the side, sinking the first in a column of merchants.

I then went to 50 metres, silent running, 3knots, passing under the main body of the convoy.

This time the destroyers reacted very quickly to the attack and "appeared" to home in on the position from which i had fired my torps at the merchant. All three sort of made a beeline for where i had been, and started dropping depth charges.

However escaping was once again easy.

So in 2 encounters now, the escorts have reacted well, which i ahve to say is way better than i experienced in vanilla as they hardly seemed to notice most of the time, unless you sort of crashed into them by mistake.

Finally thre AI is starting to feel like it "could" become a challenge.

[Nisgeis]

A few "programming comments" if I may:
<SNIP>
# Ship:GetContactDepth() <= -7.0 and
(Ship:ContactIs(SUBMARINE) or Ship:ContactIs(UNITUNKNOWN) or Ship:GetContactDepth() <= -5.0)....

means that ships will try to reacquire targets no matter if I am submerged or visible. As long as contact is SUBMARINE or UNITUNKNOWN, the depth does not matter. It used to matter, but was commented out.
May I ask the reason, not for sake of argument but more as an enlightenment.

I'm more than happy for people to comment on the scipt changes, as it's very easy to accidentally put in a logic trap that can never be true, or is always true.

There's a few peculiarities with the contact reports the AI gets. If the AI sees a torpedo, it'll classify you as unknown and guess at a depth. If it sees your periscope or gets you on sonar, it'll classify you as a sub. This was why the AI wouldn't respond beforehand, as the scripts were set to only respond to a sub which meant you had to be seen.

The 'unknown' classification when something goes bang, but they don't see you is also problematic in poor visibiltiy. I fixed the AI response for the convoys in good visibility, but when I went to test in Scapa Flow in bad weather, they still ignored me. I found that if the AI don't see a torpedo, they just hear an explosion, then you get classified as 'Unknown' with a wild depth - in scapa, I was being classified as an unknown at 80 m in the air, so the AI ignored me. So, I removed the depth control as it's not reliable and instead put in sub or unknown or depth. I also added a check for the last time they had a contact with you, so if you are surfeaced in good visibility and they can see you, they will have fresh contact info and it won't try to re-acquire you. If it's foggy or rainy and dark, then they won't be able to see you either, but should still try to get close to where you last were.

I dived to periscope depth to toy with him, but he didnt seemed to use active nor passive sonar... or maybe they were a green crew?

Hmmm, they should always have their sensors on, only thing I have found that stops the sensors is the thermal layer, which makes you invisible, but at PD this shouldn't have hidden you. What sort of speed was he doing on his way past?

However escaping was once again easy.

So in 2 encounters now, the escorts have reacted well, which i ahve to say is way better than i experienced in vanilla as they hardly seemed to notice most of the time, unless you sort of crashed into them by mistake.

Finally thre AI is starting to feel like it "could" become a challenge.

Yeah they are still pretty poor :DL. They will only go over the same area atm, this will change though. Spiral search is next up, but having trouble with role changing...

Thanks for the feedback guys.

[Will-Rommel]

He clashed up to my position at max speed, but then slowed to around 12 knots in the vicinity of my last position.

I had map contact up and didnt see the red cone suggesting his active sensor was on. The passive area was also very small. (Okay i was doing 2 knots, silent running but still, he almost passed over me.)

Keep up the good work ! :salute:

[thruster]

whilst we are on the subject of escort behaviour, abit has been talked about thermal layers but not much on the seabed. im curious of the effect shallow water and hovering over the bottom would have on their ASDIC and AI ability to find you?

cheers.

[Nisgeis]

Hi Thruster,

I haven't noticed any effect by bottoming the boat.

New version is up, old version link removed. New link is in the first post.

I have added in spiralling searches, but I'm not 100% convinced that the AI is able to switch roles properly between search and destroy when it has found you...

This has been driving me mad for the past couple of days.

[PL_Andrev]

New version is up, old version link removed. New link is in the first post.

Thanks, but your solution (info about new version in #XX post) is not good info - is not readable. Could you put at 1st post in this subject info about new version (is it 1.1? which version I dowloaded?) and put a small changelog?

But thanks for fast development!
:up:

[thruster]

Nisgeiswrote: Hi Thruster,

I haven't noticed any effect by bottoming the boat.

New version is up, old version link removed. New link is in the first post.

I have added in spiralling searches, but I'm not 100% convinced that the AI is able to switch roles properly between search and destroy when it has found you...

This has been driving me mad for the past couple of days.

thanks for your reply. keep up the great work! be aggressive! :salute::D

[Nisgeis]

Thanks, but your solution (info about new version in #XX post) is not good info - is not readable. Could you put at 1st post in this subject info about new version (is it 1.1? which version I dowloaded?) and put a small changelog?

I'm not sure what you mean about it not being readable? The new [WIP] is v 1.01, which is in the first post and also on the download page and it's also on the mod name. Changelog isn't really necessary as it's not been released yet :), but a small synopsis is on the first page.

[PL_Andrev]

I mean list with all versions.
Now it is, thanks.
:yeah:

[AOTD_Rhonen]

does the mod works in MP-mode?

[PL_Andrev]

Good question.
All modes (single and multi) based on this same game engine, but the correct question is:

What will AI do, if contact is lost and find another one?

My proposal:
1) Looking for lost contact by 10-15 minutes,
2) Listen uboat sound (no speed) by 2-3 minutes
3) Attack new, closest contact.

[Nisgeis]

does the mod works in MP-mode?

I don't know, I've never got an MP game running, but I would imagine so. The one thing I am wary of is testing in a single player missions, as historically with SH, single missions and campaign missions play differently.

What will AI do, if contact is lost and find another one?

My proposal:
1) Looking for lost contact by 10-15 minutes,
2) Listen uboat sound (no speed) by 2-3 minutes
3) Attack new, closest contact.

In this mod, AI will start looking for a lost contact after about 10 minutes. If it finds a new contact, it will concentrate on the new contact. I think I'm right in saying that each ship can only deal with one contact at a time. From looking at the sensors, there is hardly any difference between slow moving and stationary as far as sonar detection goes, so slow and moving is better. The only reason for an AI to stop is if it wants to disappear from the U-Boats sonar.

There seem to be a few problems with the way the AI is implemeneted. One is that there doesn't seem to be a way to communicate that a new contact has been found, so the commander of a convoy will only know how long its been since the first sighting happened, not how the individual destroyers on the scene are doing, so it's a bit hard getting the commander to make informed decisions, as he doesn't know anything. This affects role assignment, as the commander can't tell a DD to go to attack mode, as the commander has no idea if the DD has re-acquired the target again. Annoying.

[piri_reis]

This affects role assignment, as the commander can't tell a DD to go to attack mode, as the commander has no idea if the DD has re-acquired the target again. Annoying.

Just thinking outloud here. Can you define some global variables which the DD's at the scene can set, like made contact again, lost contact, searching.. And then have the commander script read into these variables to make more intelligent decisions.

[wamphyri]

Found an interesting side effect. I was traveling through the dover straight and was just about past all the DD's when my periscope got spotted. I don't recall if the planes had been in the area already but they joined in on the attack. There was around 6-8 planes total and 5 DD's total. Sure I wasn't anywhere near the spot they were attacking but interesting all the same.

I need to work on the plane AI because they will just attack where a sub was last spotted until they run out of fuel.:damn:

edit - also DD's will come if their close enough when you get spotted by a plane.. this mod really makes the straights of dover as dangerous as it should be :)

[Nisgeis]

Can you define some global variables which the DD's at the scene can set, like made contact again, lost contact, searching.. And then have the commander script read into these variables to make more intelligent decisions.

I'll have a look, it should in theory be possible, but it depends how the game reads the scripts and parses them.

[NoLine]

I had a look at these scripts and noticed some mistakes which might mean the scripts dont run at all

example : in airplane.aix it says :
action
{
Plane:FireTorpedoes()
}

but (i think) it needs to be :

action
{
Plane:FireTorpedoes();
}

there seem to be more of these, ill see what happens if i remove them

cheers
Noline

[Heretic]

In my experience, syntax errors produce immediate CTD, so I wouldn't think that's a problem. Certainly worth experimenting with though.

[robbo180265]

Ok I'm using this mod and it's a massive difference to the "out of the box" AI.

I stalked a convoy whilst in shallow waters. The DD did come look for me after all sinkings but couldn't find me. I was running at slow speed, not silent and at periscope depth.

So it seems that although they now spend considerable time looking, they can't actually find you still.

I did briefly surface and the DD steamed straight towards the area that it spotted me. I was still able to get away whilst at periscope depth and running at slow speed.

So definatly on the right track but I'm guessing that the sensors need tweaking too.

Good work though - things are really looking up:up:

[Coldcall]

ya please keep developing this mod, so far works well for initial reactions by the warships, but they remain very poor at triangulating a search.

I keep restarting my campaigns so farthest Ive gone is happy times. I'm wondering if the stock AI gets better later on, then this tweak to the reactions may compliment that.

I've heard many people say the AI gets better as the years roll by but is that tested and apparent in the code, or just a myth?

[Nisgeis]

Thanks for the feedback. The enemy AI won't get better, but the sensors they use will (I think), which will make their searches more effective. When they get radar they will get much harder. There's also no way to see what the date is, so you can't implement strategies as they became used historically, but what you could do is to restrict certain strategies to elite or very good AI and then modify the levels of escorts in the campaign by date. I'm not sure if changing their level changes how effective their sensors are though (on a non scripting level). I don't think they should be very good at finding you early war, especially if you are on the surface at night.

I had a look at these scripts and noticed some mistakes which might mean the scripts dont run at all



Hi NoLine, thanks for the suggestion. I tried what you suggested and it made no difference. I think the problem is that the aircraft we are seeing eraly on simply don't have bombs or torpedoes.

I can't get airplanes to attack with cannon. I can get them to circle you, make dummy bomb runs on you and other things, but they will only fire if they are flying directly at you. This will work with aircraft that have nose turrets, but not things like spitfires or swordfish, which have fixed guns. So that was a bit of a waste of time. I think the main problem is that the planes in SH4 didn't attack without bombs either - they'd attack and just fly off when they had no more bombs, so planes never strafed there either. There's no scripting to make strafing with cannon work. The scripting for aircraft seems to be very limitted, unless I'm missing something.

[wamphyri]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164452

Hey nisgeis,

The link is to my mod to get the planes to attack. In a campaign the planes use the default equipment and for all but 5 planes in stock the default is without bombs. With how the AI works a plane won't attack unless it has bombs, this was true for sh3 and sh4. One thing that was done for those games and I did with my mod is use what's called a bombdummy, a fake bomb so the ai now thinks it has bombs on board and will now use it's cannons. This isn't needed for planes that have bombs on board and one of the things that I also did was went through each plane and adjusted their equipment to as historical as possible, as well as adjusting the damage they do with the cannons.

I haven't updated it for a while but have what will probably be version 1.0 out very soon. So if there's anything you can do on top of this with the ai script file then cool beans. No matter what I do a plane refuses to drop a torpedo from the air, I don't think the devs got it working in the other sh games but they've given us just a little more to play with now.

[NoLine]

Hi NoLine, thanks for the suggestion. I tried what you suggested and it made no difference. I think the problem is that the aircraft we are seeing eraly on simply don't have bombs or torpedoes.
.

you also removed the other one from aircraft.aix ?


action
{
Plane:FireCannons()
}

to

action
{
Plane:FireCannons();
}

or in ships-navigation.aix
action
{
Ship:EndCurrentTactic()
}
to
action
{
Ship:EndCurrentTactic();
}

in submarine.aix

strategies
{
EvadeEscortDay,
}
to
strategies
{
EvadeEscortDay
}

also

strategies
{
EvadeEscortNight,
}
to
strategies
{
EvadeEscortNight
}

not sure it works but those seem to be wrong

cheers
Noline

[PL_Andrev]

:o
Wrong or incorect code?
Thanks God, code is open...

[McBeck]

:o
Wrong or incorect code?
Thanks God, code is open...
Yeah...have a look through the other files...its open code!

[Nisgeis]

With how the AI works a plane won't attack unless it has bombs, this was true for sh3 and sh4. One thing that was done for those games and I did with my mod is use what's called a bombdummy, a fake bomb so the ai now thinks it has bombs on board and will now use it's cannons.

You can do the same through the scripts, by telling the plane to attack even if it has no bombs, but there is no way to get the plane to line up properly, so slow aircraft, such as the sworfish won't line up properly, but faster aircraft work OK.

[Nisgeis]

I got an aircraft to attack with air dropped torpedoes, but they just hit the sea and kept dropping with the same speed the were dropped at, so they sank without a trace. They might have slowled descending a bit with time, but they went very deep, so they definately need to be more buoyant.

[wamphyri]

I"m no scripter .. could you please send me what you've discovered so I can test it out?

[TheBlobThing]

Hi Nisgeis!

Your mod does indeed improve the AI. After I toned down the effects of the Thermal Layer a bit I've even had (a little bit) trouble shaking off a DD.

But I think the escorts' definitely need to get better at spotting you visually. I was evading at periscope depth (to test out your mod) and although they pinged me alright, I had my scope sticking out of the water the entire time. They didn't fire a shot at it. It seems like they don't want to use their guns at all while pinging or listening. In fact, they had all their guns pointed in the opposite direction of me.

Another indicator that this is a problem was when I ordered my boat back up to periscope depth after deep diving (the fiends actually started DC'ing me! Thanks to you I reckon), my stupid planesmen broached the boat. The entire sub became visible at one point yet the DD (was about 1km away) just kept on circling lazily without acknowledging my presence.

Still, thanks for the tweaks. I wouldn't even have seen a DC attack without them. :yeah:

Also, consider toning down the thermal layer. It just completely baffles the poor short-bus AI.

[Coldcall]

Odd incident today and the first ever such in SH5, for me anyways. Is it your mod?

Feb 15th 1940,travelling home across the North Sea, spotted a sole British Destroyer, i get quite close then dive to periscope depth in semi-calm waters and wait in ambush. I fire two torps when he is about 2.2km away on fastest speed.

He spots them and does a wicked swerve and starts heading right for me! I'm almost paralysed with shock! WTF?? :-)

It was not very deep water so as he is charging me i am just in time to let off a third torpedo which luckliy hits him when he is like 400 metres out...too close for comfort. Phew, that was a surprise. I've not had them notice one torpedo yet so this was something new.

If they could do that more often it would be way more unpredictable and fun.

[TheBlobThing]

Hi Nisgeis.

I just received an old link from sergei to Ducimus' guide to the sim.cfg.

Apparently the Detection Time on visual detection is not in seconds but in minutes! Not sure if they have changed it for SH5 but I'll try and tweak it and give it a go.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/6241064475?r=9581006475#9581006475

Edit: Just changed sim.cfg to TMO levels as outlined in the ubi thread above and I still had to get within 1000m of two destroyers while firing my deck gun at them before they noticed me. :doh:

[Nisgeis]

He spots them and does a wicked swerve and starts heading right for me! I'm almost paralysed with shock! WTF?? :-)

Yeah that's the mod at work. Previously stock AI only reacts to you if it sees you or hears you. If something explodes, without you being detected beforehand, the AI acts like it's aliens and doesn't suspect a submarine. Now they do and come looking for you - but not always in the right spot, but their best guess as to where the firing point was. Harbour attacks also now get a response from DDs.

Edit: Just changed sim.cfg to TMO levels as outlined in the ubi thread above and I still had to get within 1000m of two destroyers while firing my deck gun at them before they noticed me. :doh:

Yeah it's in minutes and it's all weighted, so one minute at max range (say 10km or whatever) but it would only take a few seconds to be spotted at 1 km. Then the figures are modified by the wave factopr and speed factor etecetera... Figures just for example.

What conditions were you in when you were not spotted - night, stormy, rainy, foggy? I haven't had a problem being spotted when surfaced in normal conditions even with stock.

[Coldcall]

Thats good work then because now i cant take them for granted any more, big imrpovement, well done!

[PL_Andrev]

Does this mod also includes the behaviour of warships that are docked?

[Nisgeis]

Does this mod also includes the behaviour of warships that are docked?

No, no change to them yet.

Also, consider toning down the thermal layer. It just completely baffles the poor short-bus AI.

Hi TheBlobThing,

I was just going to do a script change, but I think you're right, it doesn't make much sense doing a script only mod, if all you need to do to get away is to dive down to avoid them.

New version is up, which changes the thermal layer and also a few other changes - see first post for the link, which is the same and the list of changes. The DDs should now be more successful at finding you after they lose you, but still within limits. Spiral serach now allows them to find you again. Also other changes to make DCs tickle you a bit.

[7thSeal]

I've just tried the mod for the first time (before this latest update) and man have I been missing out on some action. :DL

I was about 40KM off of Tyne (spelling?) and was preying on merchants as they were leaving port. My second attack I hit him with one and surfaced to finish off with deck gun since no other ships were showing on sonar. Well I was having fun with the deck gun when out of nowhere these guys showed up at full speed... crash dive!

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3297/86919966.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/86919966.jpg/)

I sunk the ship and was getting out of the area then another merchant appeared on sonar and I couldn't resist. Eventually got him but they were back on me again along with two planes circling my location (using Plane Attacks mod as well). It was tense for awhile and really enjoy the company.

Good job with the work so far and I'm grabbing the latest version now. :up:

[Fattysbox]

Quick question:

How is this different from Haramirs self awareness mod? And more importantly, do they conflict each other?

Cheers!

Jason

[Nisgeis]

Quick question:

How is this different from Haramirs self awareness mod? And more importantly, do they conflict each other?

Cheers!

Jason
Hi Fattysbox,

There's a brief list of things this changes in the first post of the thread and also in the download info box, but I'm not going to be exact about the changes (e.g. after x minutes, the AI will...), so as to not spoil anything for the victim. I mean player. You could compare what this mod changes to what Haramir has listed as changes. It almost certainly will conflict, as the same files will probably have been changed. I wouldn't try it, or you might get some odd things happening.

[7thSeal]

Tried the latest version and for the first time in a campaign my crew has be injured... :yep:

No longer can I shell away with the deck gun when destroyers are any where to be called in. I was out of torpedoes and needed one more ship and I tried hard before they reached me. Took on quite a bit of damage from them shelling me before getting submerged and I still didn't get the ship.

After a bit of cat and mouse, and some needed repair work I headed back to refill and shall get my last ship.

I can see that its going to be tough if you get caught in shallower waters with the destroyers on your back. :DL

[PL_Andrev]

Good work!
:yeah:

Waiting for next version...
:up:

[PL_Andrev]

Does this mod support multiplayer mode or more targets (additional AI uboats)?

[Phantom453]

Thanks for your work.

Looking forward to an enemy with a bit of mustard about him.

[Nisgeis]

Does this mod support multiplayer mode or more targets (additional AI uboats)?

I've still not played multiplayer and I haven't made any changes to the sub AI, but the escrots should hunt AI boats better now. I think anyway.

Thanks for your work.

Looking forward to an enemy with a bit of mustard about him.

Looking forward to the feedback! :DL Feedback on how well or badly the DDs perform is welcomed and also, essential!

[TheBlobThing]

Hi Nisgeis!

Well, I just had quite a scare thanks to your mod.

I was attacking a small convoy in the Celtic Sea (3 large steamers and 2 DD's).

I had 2 fish left and hit a steamer with one of them (fired from about 2000 m out), which eventually sank.

Visibility was rather poor thanks to rain, stormy winds and medium fog, so I thought I could easily escape on the surface like I was used to (thanks to the short-bus AI). This time it didn't go as planned. Both DD's closed range immediately after the torp hit and when they were within ca. 2500m they opened fire, forcing me to dive. Then all hell broke loose.

I didn't count the number of depth charges but I know they attacked me for 1 hour and 45 minutes, constantly losing track of me and reacquiring.

Unfortunately I had external view off so I was unable to see details of their maneuvering and whether spiral search worked properly or not, but I do know their ASDIC worked like a charm. It felt a bit random if they both used active sonar or only one of them while the other listened but one of them frequently stayed still while the other was charging around and pinging me. I was on the verge of "giving up" by deciding to change thermal layer back to have an effect, but I'm glad I didn't.

This was a harrowing experience of the cat-and-mouse game, and only sonar lines on the map (I use the mod to remove sensor circles around contacts) saved me.

Those damn electric motors got fixed up and damaged about 3 times!

Of course this was just a single experience in my new campaign. Maybe I was just unlucky to bump into a couple of veteran DD's, but I must say this is the most fun I've had since I bought this game. :yeah:

[7thSeal]

I sunk the Queen Elizabeth which had like 10 escorts and 2 others showed up to join with the hunt for me and never have I seen so many DC dropped. Only thing that kept my skin on during that was that I had around 170m below me to hide in. Crap did they ever drop some charges and searched the area for over an hour.

May be to dark to see but I'm somewhere below that scary mess. :haha:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6144/sh52010040420123284.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/sh52010040420123284.jpg/)

[lumat83]

Hello :)

actually, I use the Damage Assessment mod from Arclight.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165771

This mod doesn't change the escorts effectiveness but is very interesting for at least one reason : "changes AI behaviour ... enemies will slow down after taking some damage ...".

Your mod modify the escort effectiveness.

The two are complementary but there is a conflict between this 2 mods with the init.aix file.

Maybe your mod has the same effect ? If not, is it possible to use the 2 mods ? Or include in your this effect ?

Luc :)

[Gandalfi2005]

Quick question:

How is this different from Haramirs self awareness mod? And more importantly, do they conflict each other?

Cheers!

Jason

They use the same Files, so just use only one of this mods.
Havent tried Nisgeis Mod until now. Haramirs Mod mainly have fixed the 1/3 ahead issue with the escorts looking for you. They will come to the last contact with full speed, additionally Escorts have higher Sensor Rates in Cruise Mode. If im right Nisgeis have fixed the 1/3 ahead issue too and additionally have the Spiral Search implemented correctly.

[t0maz]

Hello :)

actually, I use the Damage Assessment mod from Arclight.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165771

(...)

The two are complementary but there is a conflict between this 2 mods with the init.aix file.

Maybe your mod has the same effect ? If not, is it possible to use the 2 mods ? Or include in your this effect ?

I'm also use both this mods. Until one of them have some compatibie version with second one you can:
1) Download and install "WinMerge" (freeware).
2) With this tool you can easy see diferences between vanila and moded init.aix file and merge differences of moded files into one.
3) One mod folder copy into second mod folder. (Doesn't matter if u overwrite init.aix now or not - look next step.)
4) Copy new merged init.aix into new merged folder with both mods.
5) Turn off both old mods in JSGME. Then turn on merged mod.

Thats all! From now both mods works as one merged one :up:
And you can do it with all conflicting mods where the diferences is only in text files like .cfg .aix etc.

[lumat83]

Thanks Guys for your help :DL

I've WinMerge.

I've compared the Init.aix from Damage Assessment with the original file and Copied the only different line (There is only one diference) into U-Boat Killer Mod :)

[Fattysbox]

Installed, but I want to make sure it installed correctly.

I used JSGME as usual, but downloading the file and extracting only gives a "data" folder. So, JSGME activates "Data" since I extracted straight to the MODS folder. Is this correct? Do I need to put this another folder calling it U-boat killer mod? Does it even matter? ;)

[Nisgeis]

Do I need to put this another folder calling it U-boat killer mod? Does it even matter? ;)

Yeah it does matter. I used to make the files so that they would extract to the folder name, but some people would do extract to <folder name> and you'd get a double folder. The upshot of that was that in JSGME it would look OK and look installed, but wouldn't actually change anything.

As you have got a 'data' folder, that's a warning sign that it's not correct. Either put the data folder inside another folder yourself, or right click and extract to U-Boat Killer Mod v 1.02\.

[Fattysbox]

Yeah it does matter.

As you have got a 'data' folder, that's a warning sign that it's not correct. Either put the data folder inside another folder yourself, or right click and extract to U-Boat Killer Mod v 1.02\.



Ok, So I made a new folder with a new name and moved the data folder into that. Activated via JGSME. :salute:

On a side note, there have been so many mods with different installation patterns and conflicts/merging that there really needs to be a supermod.
Your AI mod should included in this as well :up:

[Nisgeis]

Maybe your mod has the same effect ? If not, is it possible to use the 2 mods ? Or include in your this effect ?

Hi Luc, sorry for the lack of reply. In stock, ships will stop and 'abandon ship' at a certain damage percentage. What I wanted to do was to have them to stop, inspect damage and then start up again, as came to light in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164840&highlight=damage+assessment+control

I'll add it in at some point, but it's not as easy to get them to start up again as I'd like.

If im right Nisgeis have fixed the 1/3 ahead issue too and additionally have the Spiral Search implemented correctly.

Yep, there are a number opf other changes as well, to the decisions they make and also a proportional response set up (not great at the moment) and a few other things to make them respond.

[Nisgeis]

So, there have been about 450 downloads of this beta version so far and only a few people have very kindly given feedback, so I'm going to take it that there are no major problems with it and nothing drastic is wrong, so I can mark it as stable and release it. Unless anyone has anything to say, I shall do that soon.

[Heretic]

I really liked the AI aspects of it. I thought the depth charge changes were a bit off. I dunno if you were planning to include DC changes in an AI mod or if that should be a stand-alone. The stock settings definitely have too small radius. They really require a direct hit to hurt the boat.

I experimented with the DC settings and came up with some that I liked.
explosion_range - upped 50% from 40 to 60 to jar the boat from further away. I don't think this setting effects damage.

I upped MinRadius from 2 to 6 and MaxRadius from 4 to 30. I think these values are in meters. According to Wikipedia, a Brit DC could kill a sub at 6 meters and do serious damage at up to twice that. Testing showed some pretty could results from this. A comprehensive overhaul of damage, repair, and weapons would really be needed to set up everything properly.

[Nisgeis]

Which version do you have? I have changed the DCs from 2 to 4 (I think) and also upped the MaxRadius, as I kept getting perfect DC runs with perfect placement and no damage at all.

[Heretic]

Which version do you have? I have changed the DCs from 2 to 4 (I think) and also upped the MaxRadius, as I kept getting perfect DC runs with perfect placement and no damage at all.

I'm sorry. No idea what the heck I was thinking your changes were.:oops: For some reason, I thought you had max radius real high. Your changes are very similar to mine.
Stock
amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 40
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 2
MaxRadius 4Yours
amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 40
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 5
MaxRadius 40
My fiddlings

amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 60
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 6
MaxRadius 30

[Nisgeis]

OK, that's good, as long as there is nothing wrong. Thanks for flagging it up as a potential problem :yeah:.

[Bilge_Rat]

OK, that's good, as long as there is nothing wrong. Thanks for flagging it up as a potential problem :yeah:.

Nisgeis, I have your mod installed but have not run into any escorts yet so cannot comment on your mod.

I do have a comment on the the DC settings though, MaxRadius=40 or even =30 seems high, if that is in meters.

Info I have seen on depth charges show that the maximum distance at which a DC could cause damage to a U-Boat was generally 12 meters for early war DCs and 15 meters for late war DCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/depth_charges.htm

commenting on the stock game settings, and I am just guessing here, could it be that those numbers were used because escorts tend to be more accurate and drop more charges in game than they would in RL?

I also have another question on the damage, I see the setting is min=50, max=100. A typical Royal Navy MK.VII DC packs a 130 kg warhead.

A typical German torpedo packs a 280 kg warhead and has a min=120, max=180 damage rating and a min=3, max=7 damage radius.

I dont know what it means, but I find it interesting that the max damage rating of the DC (100) is proportionately larger than the max damage rating of the torp (180, instead of 215?). Logically, it should be the same or lower since the DC will almost always detonate farther away from the target than a torpedo.

[The General]

Fantastic Mod, suprised I haven't known about this 'til now, will try when I get home. One question. In all versions of Silent Hunter it has always suprised me that Surface vessels don't respond to seeing a periscope like I thought they would. Shouldn't they immedietly start DC'ing the area and even call their buddies over to join the party? Sure, they fire a few rounds, but once you lower your 'Scope they just continue on their merry way like they never saw a thing! Surely one of the fundamentals of Sub warfare?

[Nisgeis]

Nisgeis, I have your mod installed but have not run into any escorts yet so cannot comment on your mod.

I do have a comment on the the DC settings though, MaxRadius=40 or even =30 seems high, if that is in meters.


It is in metres, yes, but it's not quite that simple. Let's say you have a depth charge that in game causes '100 damage units' whatever they are. If that DC explodes within zero metres out to MinRadius, then the full 100 damage points are used in the following calculation of damage. If the DC explodes at MaxRadius metres, then there is no damage. Anywhere in between Min and Max means the damage used is linearly interpolated, so half way between the Min and Max (if min 2 and max 40, then halfway would be 21 metres out from the sub) then falf the damage is used, e.g. 50 damage units.

Now, then the game takes into account the armour class of the thing you are hitting and that reduces the damage as well. If the damage is reduced enough by the armour, then no damage is done. So, when a DC explodes close but not near, then there's no damage to the pressure hull as it's too strong, but the equipment inside can be damaged. But the equipment itself can be assigned armour values as well and indeed have them, so the damage radius isn't the full story.

Sorry for the long winded explanation.


Info I have seen on depth charges show that the maximum distance at which a DC could cause damage to a U-Boat was generally 12 meters for early war DCs and 15 meters for late war DCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/depth_charges.htm

commenting on the stock game settings, and I am just guessing here, could it be that those numbers were used because escorts tend to be more accurate and drop more charges in game than they would in RL?


The AI is a bit, er, limitted, when it comes to dropping the DCs. The way they drop a depth charge pattern is pre-determined sort of, in a way that makes it tricky to adjust. So, what they will usually do is drop a DC way behind you, e.g. a hundred or so metres before the 'contact' and then wait whilst they pass directly overhead and drop another a long way in front of the contact. I haven't looked at how the racks are arranged in the game, but the pattern they drop is probably some function of the reload times of the racks and other things. Anyway, this limits their chance to get a 'dead on' depth charge. In stock, the DCs have such a tiny damage radius that even when they search and find you, they don't do any damage to you at all. This problem is especially apparent if you are 90 degrees to the destroyers attack you, as the DCs will be miles from you. If they pass in line with you, they are more likely to drop DCs close to your stern and bow, but still a way off.


I also have another question on the damage, I see the setting is min=50, max=100. A typical Royal Navy MK.VII DC packs a 130 kg warhead.

A typical German torpedo packs a 280 kg warhead and has a min=120, max=180 damage rating and a min=3, max=7 damage radius.

I dont know what it means, but I find it interesting that the max damage rating of the DC (100) is proportionately larger than the max damage rating of the torp (180, instead of 215?). Logically, it should be the same or lower since the DC will almost always detonate farther away from the target than a torpedo.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand - '100 is proportionally larger than 180'? I think I'm missing something.

[Nisgeis]

Shouldn't they immedietly start DC'ing the area and even call their buddies over to join the party?

Try the mod, see what happens.

[7thSeal]

Try the mod, see what happens.

Lol, isn't that the truth... run for deeper water if available, otherwise get ready for a booom or two. :DL

[Bilge_Rat]

thanks for the explanation, maybe I should just try it first and comment after. :salute:




Sorry, I'm not sure I understand - '100 is proportionally larger than 180'? I think I'm missing something.

no, I meant the torpedo warhead is 280 kg vs 130 kg for the DC, which works out to 2.15:1, whereas the max damage rating for torp vs DC is 180 v 100 or 1.8:1, which means that 1 kg of explosive in the DC packs potentially more punch than 1 kg of explosive in the torp warhead, its close, but there is still a discrepancy.

nothing to do with your mod, since it is the stock settings. Unlike SH3/4, where I relied on our great modders, I am trying to make more of an effort to understand the nuts and bolts of the game this time around.

[Nisgeis]

Oh I see. I've no idea. It could be that the armour of the ships is differently strutured to the armour of subs. Or it could be that the HP of ships is set differently to the subs. There are many screwy things with damage models in the past series, I wouldn't like to guess why it's like that.

[The General]

Try the mod, see what happens.
...And that's just what I did.

I reloaded my Campaign in which I was on my way home from the Western Approaches. Roughly 150 miles South-West of Plymouth I stumbled upon a Carrier Taskforce for the first time in SH5 :o. I had no torpedos left :damn:

I decided to go anyway and ordered an intercept course at flank speed. An aircraft passed lazily overhead. I paid it no mind as I'd received good intel that the Devs had simply copy & pasted the Aircraft.cfg file from SH4, which is known to be broken and thus the Aircraft had orders not to fire on me. So complacent was I, I didn't even bother to order a man to to the AA guns. "No" I said, "Finish your tea."

I got as close as I could to the Taskforce with the decks awash before opening up on the Carrier with my Deck gun. This was a mistake ;). The Carrier was surrounded by about 10 escorts, and all of them on the side closest to me immedietly opened fire. I ran around on Deck like a headless chicken, trying to get down the bloody hatch and order a Crash dive. The sky darkened with the number of shells headed my way.

By some miracle, I had made it to 20 meters without a scratch and ordered Periscope depth. When the head of the Observation scope broke the surface I was greeted by a terrible sight for a sober man; six Escorts headed my way at what looked like 20+ knots. Another first for SH5. Having had to evade a Destroyer or two in previous SH5 missions, I knew that I'd be safe at anything below 50 meters. Luckily I was in 100m of water, so there'd be no problem right? Wrong. I received a pounding from the Tommies that made me wish my Mother had never met my Father :88). Damage reports were coming in like I was working the floor of the Stock Exchange and I think I began to cry :cry:.

In between the tears, I managed to make an order that saved all our lives. For the time being. I put the Boat on the Ocean floor and ordered All-stop-quick-quiet. We were taking on water slowly in the Forward Torpedo Compartment, but nothing too serious.

ASDIC came and went and I could hear DC's being dropped off to the South, a half-mile away. After a while I felt brave enough to ascend to Periscope depth. On the way up I allowed the men to make what repairs they felt they could manage.

Even though it was One O'clock in the afternoon, I used the Observation scope to look around. Afterall, it'd never been a problem before. This time was different. Three of the original six escorts had decided to sit and wait for me to come up. That wasn't all. I counted atleast a half-dozen aircraft peforming dive-bombing and straffing runs. The nearest Destroyer soon spotted the large head of the Obs. scope and immedietly headed my way, calling on his friends to join the party. At seeing this I.......[Message Breaks Off]

[7thSeal]

...And that's just what I did.

I reloaded my Campaign in which I was on my way home from the Western Approaches. Roughly 150 miles South-West of Plymouth I stumbled upon a Carrier Taskforce for the first time in SH5 :o. I had no torpedos left :damn:

I decided to go anyway and ordered an intercept course at flank speed. An aircraft passed lazily overhead. I paid it no mind as I'd received good intel that the Devs had simply copy & pasted the Aircraft.cfg file from SH4, which is known to be broken and thus the Aircraft had orders not to fire on me. So complacent was I, I didn't even bother to order a man to to the AA guns. "No" I said, "Finish your tea."

I got as close as I could to the Taskforce with the decks awash before opening up on the Carrier with my Deck gun. This was a mistake ;). The Carrier was surrounded by about 10 escorts, and all of them on the side closest to me immedietly opened fire. I ran around on Deck like a headless chicken, trying to get down the bloody hatch and order a Crash dive. The sky darkened with the number of shells headed my way.

By some miracle, I had made it to 20 meters without a scratch and ordered Periscope depth. When the head of the Observation scope broke the surface I was greeted by a terrible sight for a sober man; six Escorts headed my way at what looked like 20+ knots. Another first for SH5. Having had to evade a Destroyer or two in previous SH5 missions, I knew that I'd be safe at anything below 50 meters. Luckily I was in 100m of water, so there'd be no problem right? Wrong. I received a pounding from the Tommies that made me wish my Mother had never met my Father :88). Damage reports were coming in like I was working the floor of the Stock Exchange and I think I began to cry :cry:.

In between the tears, I managed to make an order that saved all our lives. For the time being. I put the Boat on the Ocean floor and ordered All-stop-quick-quiet. We were taking on water slowly in the Forward Torpedo Compartment, but nothing too serious.

ASDIC came and went and I could hear DC's being dropped off to the South, a half-mile away. After a while I felt brave enough to ascend to Periscope depth. On the way up I allowed the men to make what repairs they felt they could manage.

Even though it was One O'clock in the afternoon, I used the Observation scope to look around. Afterall, it'd never been a problem before. This time was different. Three of the original six escorts had decided to sit and wait for me to come up. That wasn't all. I counted atleast a half-dozen aircraft peforming dive-bombing and straffing runs. The nearest Destroyer soon spotted the large head of the Obs. scope and immedietly headed my way, calling on his friends to join the party. At seeing this I.......[Message Breaks Off]

This isn't finished yet... keep us updated. :DL

I also use the Plane attack mod and during one attack two planes quickly joined the hunt and would spot me out every time I peeped with the scope. Well the destroyers must have been in contact with them because here they came... updating the last contact. :wah: :DL

[Bilge_Rat]

well that was exciting.

PQ-17 mission. I snuck around the escorts, fired 4 torpedoes at 2 freighters. 2 hit, one ship sank at 21:55.

I start to sneak out of the area at 108 meters, silent running. My sound man starts giving me warnings about escorts coming my way. I listen and can hear 2 escorts heading my way, very fast.

at 22:25 they arrive, 2 escorts pinging away furiously, launching DCs, 28 in total over 20 mins. 3 are close enough to show up on the event camera. 2 explode behind and under me and damage various systems:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4272/dcattack001.jpg


http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4400/dcattack002.jpg


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9500/dcattack003.jpg


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9247/dcattack004.jpg


I then go deep first to 155 meters, then to 165, change course. They gradually lose me.

at 22:50, the pinging slows down. At 23:05, it stops, although I can hear them behind me for several hours circling around.

I sneak out of the area, repair the damage, surface at dawn, 04:00 in a medium fog and leave the area at high speed:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9280/dcattack005.jpg


nice mod! :up:

[7thSeal]

Crap....

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7986/59008205.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/59008205.jpg/)

I've already taken damage and now this, 50m down and have two of 'em on me which I'm having a hard time shaking. Currently saved it and taking a break for now. :)

[Nisgeis]

OK good, the aim is that you get a beating, rather than a tickling, but you don't get sudden death and you can make it back. Possibly the damage you take makes you limp home and end your patrol early, but I never had fun when I wasn't getting any attention from the escorts or when I did and was suddenly dead. You should also be able to elude the destroyers if you can out manouver them and get outside their sensor range so they lose you. Also if they don't know where you are, they shouldn't be able to pick you up on sensors when they have no realistic ability to.

For those of you that have escaped though... I'll get you next version!

[7thSeal]

OK good, the aim is that you get a beating, Possibly the damage you take makes you limp home and end your patrol earlyThat I've recieved.

You should also be able to elude the destroyers if you can out manouver them and get outside their sensor range so they lose you. Also if they don't know where you are, they shouldn't be able to pick you up on sensors when they have no realistic ability to. that I'm currently working on.... takes planning which I didn't do....

For those of you that have escaped though... I'll get you next version!This I'm looking forward too... you've added so much more to the excitement already... and I'm enjoying it very much... keep it coming! :DL

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Crap....

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7986/59008205.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/59008205.jpg/)





:har: " Dang man, That is one HUGE depthcharge !!"

[Westbroek]

:haha:
:har:

[Bilge_Rat]

For those of you that have escaped though... I'll get you next version!

we'll see...:arrgh!:

[7thSeal]

:har: " Dang man, That is one HUGE depthcharge !!"

Yeah I brought the camera in a bit close... it exploded just after I took the shot and somebody began yelling out more damages. :rotfl2:

Don't know why I'm laughing, its not funny.... seriously...

[doomlordis]

Thanks for this mod, i am now scared of the destroyers. Best mod yet.

[sirbum69]

I concur with the above poster. Before i placed this mod in, I had just finished downing 2 tankers that were being escorted by 4 destroyers. Course, soon as i hit the two ships in the middle, The destroyers did nothing at all...

They just kept on sailing as if nothing had even happened. Needless to say i was a liitle upset at UBI cause it felt non life like at all....Anyways i went ahead hit the TC up to about 512 to start sailing towards refit port.

I was on the surface...I saved the game at that point, then went looking for a mod like this...I found this one so i downloaded it, pluged it into the game.."While i was still at sea" Restarted the game...

Anyways i turned the TC back down to about 4...was sailing along and just happen to go to external camera only to find that 3 of the Destroyers that had sailed past before the mod out to about 9KM, had turned around and were already firing on me...LOL...Gues cause i was sailing at flank speed on the surface i made myself real well known...Anyways the moral was that, with this mod installed, the AI actully freaking did something instead of acting like nothing had occured..

Big props to you for this addition to the game...Now i have to actully sneek up on convoys and dive when they see me....

Now if i could only get it so the dam planes would do something...I mean it is annoying that it makes my game go from 1240 TC down to 8 cause there flying over, but for now thats all they do...i can just keep going and not do anything as the planes never do nothing..

I have a mod installed that i thought would change there behaviour but it doesnt seem to...

Oh well anyways great mod...

[Nisgeis]

Thanks for the comments.

I can make the planes attack, but they are quite nasty. Two hurricanes with guns only reduced my pressure hull to a collander in short order and I was dead. I'm waiting for the patch before doing anything else though. Hopefully the patch will fix everything :DL.Well, perhaps not, but there's always hope.

[sirbum69]

earlier today i took out a battlecruiser...Dont remember her name, but after i sunk her, All and i mean all 8 of her escorts came barreling down on me.

Well that was to be expected, so i dove down to about 70M and went 1KNT ahead. Those dam DD's stayed with me till they sunk me. I sat there for about 4 hours game time with them following me, going around and around me, depth charging lol...

I even went all stop a few times and still they stayed, they never left. So im wandering if maybe they are a little too good. I mean i thought if you went deep and all stop that they would lose me...not the case...

Now im not sure if i can continue my campaign lol, cause i saved it while i was in the middle of all this....instead of just before i downed the battle cruiser

Edit: Well after going back into game, going to 80M and sitting all stop for 12 hours game time, which omg was what felt like 5 hours real time, 5 of the 9 DD's left...But 4 are still there above me...wont leave....So

Im thinking this is a little to much tweaked...I mean if im sitting all stop silent running on the bottom of the sea floor, they should have lost contact with me already.

So is there a way that i can tweak this back some...I dont want to lose the mod, cause its nice to see them do something other then just sail on, but i mean come on, if everytime i attack a escorted convoy i have to restart the campaign then its a little bit ofa game breaker...

[OS1_Mac]

Hi, Nisgeis, I like your mod, too, but I had a nightmare experience with it a few days ago! Here's the AAR:

I was on the British Blockade patrol hunting for a carrier. I patrolled about 20 km's south of Plymouth (big mistake!) hoping to ambush the Arc Royal whenever it returned to port. The environmental conditions were perfect for prosecuting a u-boat: clear skies, no fog, and calm seas.

Well, I got lucky and intercepted the Ark Royal battlegroup (carrier plus 5 destroyers) heading back to Plymouth. The battlegroup was on top of me very quickly and I had little time to work up a firing solution and get in to position. So, I did the best I could. Firing a 4-eel shot at it from 1600 m, I got a 2-for-1 in the deal because just after I fired the torps a destroyer that was off the Arc Royal's port quarter sped up and raced alongside the carrier. Well, the first 2 torps obliterated the destroyer and the second two nailed the carrier. Both sank quickly.

I dove to 80m (the water depth was only 90 m) and headed south in to the Channel at 2 kts silent running. The 4 remaining destroyers were on top of me in less than 15 minutes pinging the hell out of me! I couldn't shake them for the life of me. I tried all-stop for a while, 1 kt, 2 kts, flank when being depth charged, different depths, etc. No luck. Their depth charges missed me everytime unless I used TC. The few times I went to 4x TC they nailed me, but damage was light (94% hull integrity). While all this was going on, every once in a while I'd get a hydrophone report saying that there was a new warship contact closing on me. :doh:

So, after 2 hours real time of constant pinging I decided to use the external cam to see what was above me. There were 9 destroyers circling me and making depth charge runs. After 3 hours I checked again and there were 14 destroyers circling me! :o After 4 hours and after traveling less than 10 km's from my original position there were 19 destroyers above me! :wah: 19!!! The were mainly circling in a counter-clockwise direction like a wheel and I was the axle. On top of all this there were 4 aircraft dive bombing me (I'm using Wamphyr's airplane mod). They weren't dropping ordinance, though. I guess they had already expended it beforehand.

I was down to 20% compressed air by then, so I felt like there was no hope of escaping. I really didn't want to die so young, so I uninstalled your mod and ran vanilla AI. After reloading my save I heard one ping and nothing thereafter! The silence after 4 hours of pinging was very strange. Anyway, I bumped up the TC to 8x and at 2 kts I left the 19 destroyers behind with no problems.

This isn't the end of the story, however, and the following has nothing to do with your mod. But When I was about 10 km's away I surfaced, shifted in to flank, and got the hell out of Dodge! Not much later I was on the conning tower when an aircraft dived towards us. I wasn't too worried about it because I thought he'd expended all his ordinance. My flak gunner decided that he didn't want to go to the trouble of firing on the plane, either. Well, all I know is that there was a very loud BOOM! All I could see was a brown cloud of smoke! After the shaking stopped and the smoke cleared I climbed back in to the boat to see flooding everywhere. Hull integrity dropped from 94% to 53%. I guess the explosion woke the gunner up because he fired on the plane that followed and actually destroyed it.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it might be helpful. I'm not sure if the AI is too strong. I'm not the greatest u-boat Captain, so I probably brought most of this hell on myself and my poor crew due to being so close to a naval port and because of the good sub-hunting evironmental conditions!

[sirbum69]

Na i had the exact same experiance if you read just above your post. And i did the exact same thing you did so i could get out of it, without having to end my campaign...But it seems i have too anyhow because even tho i was able to surface again lol, all my engines were destroyed from the beating i took..

So i was stuck in the water....Anyways, i turned the mod back on again after i started the new campaign....I do think it may be a little to high on the settings, as all stop on the sea floor for 4 hours str8 should have made them go away...

Guess ill just be taking shots of 4KM and more lol so to give myself enougg time to get the hell out of dodge for when the escorts come my way

[Nisgeis]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll do some testing with groups that have only a single asset and multiple destroyers. That seems to be the common theme here.

As for sitting on the bottom still in shallow water, I'm not so sure that's a good idea, as they start from your last known position to try to re-acquire you, so if they have depth charged you and you sit in the same spot, they will find you again fairly easily. I have an idea about that though. I think your best chance against a single asset convoy is to start planning your escape before you attack and be on your way out before it hits home. I'm not sure what the 'correct' procedure they'd follow is, but I should think they'd be pretty annoyed if you sank the only thing they were protecting :DL.

Did you both attack at night, submerged?

Thanks again for the feedback, I want it to be a challenge, but not certain death, so I'll have a look at it. You did both survive for a few hours though, which is good :DL. Not sure how they managed to multiply - they must have called for re-inforcements. Keeping you down until you run out of air sounds fairly realistic, but maybe need to only happen when you run into a really well trainedd veteran group?

[sirbum69]

i believe mine was during the day, When i started my attack...But i was submerged....I was also i believe about 1700M out when i sent in the torps...I could have been too close to the convoy and that is why they picked me up...Or at least where the torps came from...

True shallow water you would have less chance of surviving the DC, but i just figured that if i wasnt moving at all...No sounds...and there DC were going off around me, that sooner or later they would assume i was dead and move on....Or i could even see staying around for me to run out of air..

But they continued to DC me...So i would move slow ahead (1KNT) and bam they would home in on my new location and start again. I figured being under silent running and 1 knt they wouldnt pick me up..

I wish i would have been in alot deeper water to have gone deeper and see if that worked but 80M was the deepest, i was resting on the sea floor as it was.

Ive started a new campaign now cause of the new UI that just came out from dark....So gonna see how the DD react to me now...Going to take shots a little farther out, maybe 2500M and then do like you said, start moveing away from the area immediatly while torps are on there way.

Least then maybe i can stay out of there detection area a little better to sail off into the sunset

[ddrgn]

Are you guys dropping decoys? Drop decoys go full speed 30 seconds, than drop to 1 knot while diving. Go as deep as you can and make L turns back and forth.

If any boat had 19 DD's on them for that long you should have been dead IMO. You should take damage on almost every pass, the more accurate the more deadly of course. Fourth or fifth good pass and you should go down.

You didn't shake them hard enough ;}

This mod does not change the stock AI visual range or stock AI time to visual contact (I don't think its changed here, someone can confirm that). Stock is 20 km. Even if you pop your scope up a second they will re-acquire you instantly.

Also, Nisgeis has increased the time in takes for them to lose you (I think, I could be wrong, but sounded like it from our quick chat the other day). I'm not sure that is a good idea. The AI sensors in stock are pristine they will pick you up fast, visual or sound contacts. I decreased the DD's AI sensors to balance out the wicked damage they do in some of my work.

For a good balance here I think you need to increase damage maybe 20% and weaken the AI sensors some, that will work will with the new scripting. These mods are the most interesting stuff on the go either way ;']

[Lopo]

Hello,

I'm using your amazing mod and have had a similar experience as OS1 Mac. Waiting for the new patch I play only the single missions and, one time, during the night attack of PQ17 I sunk and damaged three ships when the DD's screen was far away. Immediately after the first shot the sonar tell me that three DD were approaching at high speed. I launched two others eels quickly, dived to 150m at 4 knots when the DD were still away from me to be detected and moved away at 1 knots. Like OS1 Mac I had quickly a pack of DD (9 in my case) depth charging me without accuracy in circles one at time until the end of the mission, in other words during the night and the all day next. The furious energy expended by the British seems in my gamer opinion a bit unrealistic, isn't it?
I played several times this mission and only one time I succeed to clear of the zone without been detected but I could not surface to put off the ship damaged and immobilized with my deck gun. The Sea Dog's were still in surface waiting me!
BTW, I appreciate your work and I hope your mod will be compatible with the new patch.
Thanks a lot!

Take care

[kylania]

Are you guys dropping decoys? Drop decoys go full speed 30 seconds, than drop to 1 knot while diving. Go as deep as you can and make L turns back and forth.

How do you even get decoys? I know they just "happen" due to a bug, but there weren't decoys in 1939 right? I'm in the middle of Happy Times and haven't seen any purchasable or refillable, in fact no mention of them at all beyond the keymap.

[ddrgn]

How do you even get decoys? I know they just "happen" due to a bug, but there weren't decoys in 1939 right? I'm in the middle of Happy Times and haven't seen any purchasable or refillable, in fact no mention of them at all beyond the keymap.

Regular single or mp player missions with 1941-43 Type VIIC, deploy with no problem.

[Bilge_Rat]

Are you guys dropping decoys? Drop decoys go full speed 30 seconds, than drop to 1 knot while diving. Go as deep as you can and make L turns back and forth.

If any boat had 19 DD's on them for that long you should have been dead IMO. You should take damage on almost every pass, the more accurate the more deadly of course. Fourth or fifth good pass and you should go down.

You didn't shake them hard enough ;}

This mod does not change the stock AI visual range or stock AI time to visual contact (I don't think its changed here, someone can confirm that). Stock is 20 km. Even if you pop your scope up a second they will re-acquire you instantly.

Also, Nisgeis has increased the time in takes for them to lose you (I think, I could be wrong, but sounded like it from our quick chat the other day). I'm not sure that is a good idea. The AI sensors in stock are pristine they will pick you up fast, visual or sound contacts. I decreased the DD's AI sensors to balance out the wicked damage they do in some of my work.

For a good balance here I think you need to increase damage maybe 20% and weaken the AI sensors some, that will work will with the new scripting. These mods are the most interesting stuff on the go either way ;']

I dont think its a good idea to change the escorts passive sonar range. In stock, it is already fairly limited. It is affected by your speed, the escort's speed, experience level, sea state and it disappears quickly at depth. At 150 meters, silent running, the escort has to be basically right on top of you to hear your boat. Nisgeis increased the lost contact time from 15 mins to 6 hours, but in my one encounter with 2 veteran escorts, I still managed to lose them fairly quickly.

I have only had one encounter so far with Nisgeis's escorts, but it feels about right to me. I only have a few suggestions:

1. look into tweaking the active sonar to go deeper and a bit bigger to make it easier for an escort to track you once it does detect you.

2. should we increase some more the damage from the DCs ? (not the damage radius). In Blair's book, you read many encounters where 5-10 accurate DCs would destroy a boat. In my case, 2 well placed DCs only caused temporary damage.

[ddrgn]

I dont think its a good idea to change the escorts passive sonar range. In stock, it is already fairly limited. It is affected by your speed, the escort's speed, experience level, sea state and it disappears quickly at depth. At 150 meters, silent running, the escort has to be basically right on top of you to hear your boat. Nisgeis increased the lost contact time from 15 mins to 6 hours, but in my one encounter with 2 veteran escorts, I still managed to lose them fairly quickly.

I have only had one encounter so far with Nisgeis's escorts, but it feels about right to me. I only have a few suggestions:

1. look into tweaking the active sonar to go deeper and a bit bigger to make it easier for an escort to track you once it does detect you.

2. should we increase some more the damage from the DCs ? (not the damage radius). In Blair's book, you read many encounters where 5-10 accurate DCs would destroy a boat. In my case, 2 well placed DCs only caused temporary damage.

Sorry that doesn't make any sense to me;

######################### Lost Time ######################
# CRITICAL_LOST_TIME = 3600;
CRITICAL_LOST_TIME = 600;
}

If 600 units means 6 hours than each unit would equal .1 minutes? It has to be a unit per second so 3600 = 60 mins is what stock is set at, makes sense.

Critical loss time by this mod is 10 mins? no?

Stock sensors are way to precise, that's the problem here, they should lose him after 10 mins, if you do the right moves of course...

You need to tone the sensors down to get a nice balance with additional scripts and damage.

In 100% stock, the AI has np finding you... The biggest problem is you can get charged to hell and back and get no damage. The scripting like I have said before is fine, it doesn't need to be changed. except for when they get a contact (they should race full speed ahead, or 0.8 full speed). When you tone down the sensors (which are way to perfect in stock) and increase the damage from charges, it makes those accurate passes that much more deadly.

The devs left out a ****load of potential operations/strategies in the scripting. But after seeing how the stock AI reacts with the extra speed when racing to contact they are not so bad as it sits right now.

As for convoys reacting to torpedoes and explosions. In stock (no AI changed except for contact race speed) I have seen them react to explosions while at dead stop with no contact on me. The merchants race ahead full and start zigging, the DD;s start searching.

Some have said you fire a torp into a convoy and they don't react, I do believe what they are saying, but the problem isn't the scripting. Its the veterency levels the campaign ships are set at.They are placed in the editors as poor, novice and competent (for the new guys I suppose). In a regular single mission if you set a 60 ship convoy all to ELITE they will react properly, evade quickly and try to out run you.

We really need a better campaign that adds ELITE ships into the fold and you will see much better behavior with very minor script changing. The scripts do very little in regards, to damage and sensor capability. With stock scripting they investigate, spam charges, and run spirals with no problems.

When I say tone down the sensors, one sensor that is really bad is the AI's visual capability. In stock its set to 20k, in light wavy conditions with the sensors factors they can spot you from about 17km, that's too far for submarines to be seen. I change this to 7km. So in best conditions w/factors they will see me from about 6500m out. The other thing with the visual sensor that is really bad is the ability to see you quickly, it is set to 15 seconds and they spot your scope in about 5 seconds with factors. Way too quick. So in stock you could be 10 km from the convoy scopes up and in perfect conditions they will spot you within 5 seconds. So most people are probably trying to creep up on convoys, but they already know your there from 10 k away and have been zigging for 30 mins already, after seeing your scope. I tone this down so its about 45 seconds in good conditions and up to 80 seconds in bad. Gives me time to do some obs and solution, without perfect computer eyes seeing me from 17km away And only at a maximum range of say 6500m w/factors. So if your being chased by DD's in stock and now again pop up your scope, good luck losing their contact.

[PL_Andrev]

So, here's the first part of a WIP mod that aims to get the AI into the game.

My friend prepared a "uboat damages mod" which perfect cooperate with your Killer AI mod.
It can be used separately but was tested only with your mod (with very good results).
Topic here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167972

Cheers,

[Bilge_Rat]

lost contact time is in the sim cfg file. It is listed in minutes. In the stock game it is 15 mins. After that time, the escort will stop looking for you. Most mods in SH4 had increased the time to 30 mins. Nisgeis increased it to 360 (i.e. 6 hours) as you can see in his sim cfg file. At first I thought it was excessive, but it actually works well in the game.

it should not be that easy to lose an escort, in the war, 2-3 escorts working together as a team and with all the time in the world, could generally keep track of a U-Boat and stay on top of him until he was forced to surface.

if you look at the stock passive sonar range of an escort, it is actually quite limited, if a sub is silent running.


-here they cant hear me at all on passive sonar or see my scope even though I am almost in the middle of the formation:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6486/eagle0001.jpg


-this is running at 1 knot at periscope depth against veteran escorts, notice how small the passive sonar detection (yellow) cone is:


http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/426/escorts0012.jpg




-and here, silent running at 77 meters, my boat is basically invisible to the escorts on passive sonar:




http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4940/escorts0009zt.jpg

[OS1_Mac]

Hey, Nisgeis, my incident with the 19 destroyers was at night and like I said I was operating in perfect sub-prosecuting conditions: clear skies, no fog, and calm seas. It was in Dec. 1939 and I was in a Type VIIA, so I had no decoys. One thing that didn't help my escape was that I watched the torps impact the ships (couldn't resist after waiting for a week, game time, for the Arc Royal to appear). I dived after torpedo impact. Also, I was using steam torpedoes. So, I brought a lot of this pain on myself. And it seems like all the new warship contacts came from the direction of Plymouth. I was only 20 km's off the entrance to Plymouth harbor when I attacked. Thanks.

[sirbum69]

so if i wanted to tweak these settings just a bit, where would i look for them...Or i should say what would i open them with...

Will visual studio open the files needed?

[OS1_Mac]

Nisgeis, here's some more info for you about my attack off Plymouth. I saved the game just prior to firing the torpedoes, so that I could try again if I missed. When I first raised my periscope to view the task force the AOB of the carrier when it crossed my bow would've been 90 degrees to port. But it was only 2000 m away and only 20 degrees to starboard of my scope's 000. Its speed was about 9 kts. So, I had very little time to set up a firing solution (maybe 30 seconds).

I reloaded the save a few times because of misses. Each time I missed, an escort on the other side (carrier's starboard quarter - I was on the carrier's port beam) saw either my periscope or the wake of the torpedoes. I think I had my periscope raised not more than a minute. Normally, I wouldn't keep it up so long, but being my first look at the task force I was trying to work out the range, course, and speed of the carrier. It wasn't the best situation to be in. I didn't feel like waiting another week for it to leave port. Anyway, after each reload and when the torps missed the escort on the carrier's starboard quarter turned towards me at flank speed. When I finally hit the carrier none of the escorts had noticed me, though. I think they only noticed me when the torps went past the carrier.

I think the ability of the AI crew is very important in determining whether they are able to hunt a u-boat down. Maybe the escorts had high ASW abilities.

[ddrgn]

so if i wanted to tweak these settings just a bit, where would i look for them...Or i should say what would i open them with...

Will visual studio open the files needed?

Trick is to open the the mods folder up and look at all the file the modder has changed that will help you find the settings you want to tweak specifically.

[Bilge_Rat]

so if i wanted to tweak these settings just a bit, where would i look for them...Or i should say what would i open them with...

Will visual studio open the files needed?

you can find some info on the sensors here, it depends what you want to tweak:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163089

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163089

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905

the settings Ducimus posted make the escorts too dangerous, but it gives you an idea of what the variables do.

[sirbum69]

Thanks guys, i tweaked just the time that was set to 6 hours...I made it so its set to 2 hours, and i think i changed the 15 sec one to like 40..

I didnt want to change too much on it cause i do love that they come after me now, just wanted to make it a little easier on me, as im not an expert in sub simulation...

Been playing sence SH4 but even that was hard lol...

[kylania]

im not an expert in sub simulation...


You're well on your way to becoming an expertly simulated sub target though! :D

[sirbum69]

LOL got that right...All tho i sat and waited for a tanker to come to me last night off the coast...Then i sent three torps into her...

There wer about 4 DD's just outside of the port circling around cause i could see them in the distance, but they wernt following her...

Soon as i downed her tho, they Took off in that direction full speed..I had already begun to leave the area tho...and its a lot deeper there so i went 115M deep and speed of 2 knts...

Seems like im going to be able to get away from them, i saved at that point and havnt been back in yet..

There searching for me above but havnt found me yet...There not pinging me so i think they are just up there knowing i was there but not sure if i still am...Oh and the 4 that were just doing patrols turned into like 9 searching for me...

[The General]

In my first patrol of the Campaign, I was about 70 miles of the East coast of England when I spotted a Destroyer in the mist. It was a very dark night and my Watch-crew did well to spot him. I decided to fire a few shells into him and see what would happen, bad idea. Initially he took off at maximum speed, headed back toPort with his tail between his legs, 'Coward!' I yelled after him. However, within the next couple of hours he called for assistance and these guys showed up:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1161/sh5img20100426210725.png (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/sh5img20100426210725.png/)
While I was very impressed with the British Navy's quick response, I couldn't help wondering if this level of support would be realistic? I know in theory that the first Destroyer didn't know who or what was firing at him through the fog, it could've been the whole German navy for all he knew :D

[Athlonic]

While I was very impressed with the British Navy's quick response, I couldn't help wondering if this level of support would be reralistic?

Yes, that would be cool if it happen only after "Happy times".

I know in theory that the first Destroyer didn't know who or what was firing at him through the fog, it could've been the whole German navy for all he knew :D

:har:

[Fattysbox]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll do some testing with groups that have only a single asset and multiple destroyers. That seems to be the common theme here.

As for sitting on the bottom still in shallow water, I'm not so sure that's a good idea, as they start from your last known position to try to re-acquire you, so if they have depth charged you and you sit in the same spot, they will find you again fairly easily. I have an idea about that though. I think your best chance against a single asset convoy is to start planning your escape before you attack and be on your way out before it hits home. I'm not sure what the 'correct' procedure they'd follow is, but I should think they'd be pretty annoyed if you sank the only thing they were protecting :DL.



As for single contacts (BBs) surrounded by escorts, I escaped them. Attacked a Nelson from the starboard side after I penetrated the screen, dived deep, and kept going at 3 knts. I guess I was never in their search circle because I only heard three pings and thats it. All the DDs ran circular patterns for about 1 hour, gave up and ran off.

BTW, forgot about even attacking Scapa with your mod. Sank a QE and 7 :o destroyers from around the base came for hell bent on revenge. Constant pinging and I got some damage. However, after the first couple of attack runs, they never dropped DCs. They acquired me every single time for more than 2 hours and just ran right over me without dropping.

I never shook them off, decided to just reload from an earlier time point.

[Nisgeis]

BTW, forgot about even attacking Scapa with your mod. Sank a QE and 7 :o destroyers from around the base came for hell bent on revenge. Constant pinging and I got some damage. However, after the first couple of attack runs, they never dropped DCs. They acquired me every single time for more than 2 hours and just ran right over me without dropping.

You're right about harbour raiding now being more difficult. As to them running and not dropping, with v 1.02 I made some changes so that they should only drop when they have a good contact, or a good idea you are there. Previously they'd drop DCs at the last point they saw you repeatedly until they ran out of DCs. So, you may have been in range of hearing their pings, but they weren't able to detect you.

[doomlordis]

Anyone else finding this mod too "killer", i have died in my last 3 games within 3 game months!

[7thSeal]

Personally I enjoy it very much... throw in the plane attack mod with it and finally my campaigns are no longer boring while sinking ships. Personally I don't think its overdone and still escape after an attack and the hunter becomes the hunted. It makes you plan your attacks and escape route beforehand which I think is excellent. I've been killed by the DD's before when using this mod and find a nice balance with it. :salute:

I cringe when in shallow waters and see some DD's prowling my area and my wife asks if I'm having trouble seeing the screen because I sit up and lean forward in those situations. :haha:

[Nisgeis]

Anyone else finding this mod too "killer", i have died in my last 3 games within 3 game months!

What's the trouble you're having with it, e.g. how do they get you?

[doomlordis]

The escorts are stuck to me , silent running even at 150m they just keep circling until i run out of air.
I am beginning to think its a bug as if i save and reload i am able to evade as expected.

[UF582151]

Hmmm tried this mod yesterday and went for a port raid just for the fun of it to see what would happen.

Found a few things that are obviously not right :p

Was spotted by a plane flying in pitch black midnight. (I am also running the plane mod) Got fired at so I dived to 25 m, couldn't go much lower as I was in shallow waters.

Shortly after I started hearing this strange whizzing sound. I'm playing realistic but I've hacked the settings so I can use external camera (for some screenshots once in a while). Still the sound bugged me so much that I decided to take a look. Turns out a destroyer some 1500-2000m away was tracking me shooting its main guns and 20mm at me, although I was submerged ¿WTF? It never tried to run a DC attack on me. Its also worrying how he knew my position so well (he was not using sonar) I like the idea that maybe the plane that spotted me gave my last know location and bearing but still, he was shooting right at me (100% accurate if I had been surfaced).

I rigged silent running went a few meters deeper and changed direction once or twice. Destroyer finally stopped hassling me although he still managed to follow me accurately for a while always using its deck guns. Still no sonar pings at all.

After some time I rose to periscope depth to take a peek and found the destroyer laying still about 2000 meters away. Sirens sounded immediately and I though "Ok, I'm screwed", but that was all. No reaction from de destroyer apart from the siren. I maneuvered torpedoed it and it didn't even move :(

I regained course and found two other destroyers dead still closer to the enemy port (strange because I've raided this port a few times to check AI and destroyers are always active and patrolling). Same thing, sirens but no reaction. Torpedoed one to see if the other would react and nope. They were side by side, less than 100 m. :(

So not really too impressed with the AI. I just want to know if this is some stock bug deeper in the game or if the mod can end up bugged once in a while and have these side effects.

thanks for the effort and thanks for any feedback.

[Nisgeis]

Doomlordis, I will have a look.

UF582151, could you tell me what port, what type of destroyer they were and the date please, so I can test it?

It sounds like the DDs thought you were surfaced, which sounds like some sort of game engine problem. Have you got any other mods running, apart from this and the plane mod? I've heard of people being able to man the deck gun whilst underwater, so I guess it's possible for the game to get confused about it.

I don't think it's a problem with this mod, as there is nothing in the scripts to tell the DDs to fire at submerged targets with their deck guns and machine guns, but I'll test it and see what happens. Did you save and reload underwater or do anything out of the ordinary? The DDs will fire guns at subs that have their scopes exposed, but they should also ram (if they are heavy enough). They won't fire at you unless they can see part of the sub, which they shouldn't do if you are underwater, or if it's really heavy weather and you broach.

[UF582151]

Doomlordis, I will have a look.

UF582151, could you tell me what port, what type of destroyer they were and the date please, so I can test it?

It sounds like the DDs thought you were surfaced, which sounds like some sort of game engine problem. Have you got any other mods running, apart from this and the plane mod? I've heard of people being able to man the deck gun whilst underwater, so I guess it's possible for the game to get confused about it.

I don't think it's a problem with this mod, as there is nothing in the scripts to tell the DDs to fire at submerged targets with their deck guns and machine guns, but I'll test it and see what happens. Did you save and reload underwater or do anything out of the ordinary? The DDs will fire guns at subs that have their scopes exposed, but they should also ram (if they are heavy enough). They won't fire at you unless they can see part of the sub, which they shouldn't do if you are underwater, or if it's really heavy weather and you broach.

OK, as far as I recall:

1. It was first patrol, that would be mid september 1939.
3. Port was Grimsby in eastern UK coast. First encounter was right near the small northern appendix of the bay entrance.
3. As far as I can recall I didnt save and reload once during the whole encounter. Some autosave maybe but I never loaded a new game.
4. 1rst detroyer was V&W class destroyer. 2nd and 3rd were B class and tribal class.
5. I wasnt broaching as the water was pretty calm.
6. Only relevant mod that touches AI is yours and Wamphyri's plane mod. I am running other mods like DW's UI, MCCD, MFC, Sh5EnvMod and improved pitch&roll but I dont see them being responsible of this behavior.

Does the AI have any stock behavior in which airplanes can send destroyers data of sighted uboats? Or maybe Wmaphyri's Plane Mod? Who knows, the state in which this game is maybe as the sub is sighted while surfaced the AI just keeps thinking its surfaced.

thanks again for the effort. Rereading my initial post I might have come through like I was criticizing your work. I appreciate the effort, it was more intended to be a helpful input.

[doomlordis]

I have removed all AI mods for the moment and have manually modded the DC values up to 2-40 meters and 50 - 150 damage.
Last night (playing with the killer mod) the destroyers were following me , even though they didnt manage a good attack they were able to track me at 120m , silent running with frequent direction changes. They did not ping me either , its like they have superhuman hydrophone operators !

Now as a test i reduced the lost contact time back to 15 mins in the mod (saved , restarted game) and expected them to move off eventually, nope they stayed with me until i had to surface 15 hours later.

Does this mod change any detection values?


Something aint right.

[SteelViking]

Thank you for this mod Nisgeis. I had literally never taken damage from a depth charge after 1.8 million tons sunk, and was about to go back to SHIII for an actual challenge. But your mod just saved SHV for me.:salute:

The ironic thing is that I am thanking you for helping a DD damage the heck out of my boat.:rotfl2:

[Nisgeis]

Does the AI have any stock behavior in which airplanes can send destroyers data of sighted uboats? Or maybe Wmaphyri's Plane Mod? Who knows, the state in which this game is maybe as the sub is sighted while surfaced the AI just keeps thinking its surfaced.

thanks again for the effort. Rereading my initial post I might have come through like I was criticizing your work. I appreciate the effort, it was more intended to be a helpful input.

Yes, in stock there is a percentage chance setting that a contact report will be sent in after a plane spots you. The chance of it happening is about the only thing you can alter.

No problems with criticism or sounding critical, that's how mods get better :yeah:. I'll test as soon as I can find some time. Thanks for the feedback and detailed info - very useful!

They did not ping me either , its like they have superhuman hydrophone operators !

<SNIP>

Does this mod change any detection values?


Something aint right.

Them not pinging sounds strange, they should do by default. There's no way to tell them to not ping or in fact any way to control their sensors - e.g. you can't tell them to turn off their radar. I wonder if this is related to UF582151's report - did they fire shells at you at all? Did you have this problem before the 1.2 patch came out?

Nope, no detection values (like sensors) have been changed, the sensors are as they are in stock. I did alter the thermal layer, as in stock you could just dive to 50m and put on 'Racing Green' by High Contrast at full volume and they'd never notice you, which was a touch too easy if you ask me. I'll look at having it play more of a role in the future though.

Thank you for this mod Nisgeis. I had literally never taken damage from a depth charge after 1.8 million tons sunk, and was about to go back to SHIII for an actual challenge. But your mod just saved SHV for me.:salute:

The ironic thing is that I am thanking you for helping a DD damage the heck out of my boat.:rotfl2:

Glad you like it. If you notice anything odd or strange, be sure to let me know!

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

[Der SchattenJager]

I noticed something weird on a few occasions.

Every once in a while I'll run into a lone destroyer out in the middle of nowhere at about 9km out, and he'll just circle by himself. Then if I change course, he will follow me and fishtail but never come closer than about 7-8km. No matter what direction I go, he will follow me, and then when I stop, he stops and does tight circles again, but never comes and gets me.

I can't get away from him no matter what I do. And he doesn't seem interested in catching me.

[caine007]

I noticed something weird on a few occasions.

Every once in a while I'll run into a lone destroyer out in the middle of nowhere at about 9km out, and he'll just circle by himself. Then if I change course, he will follow me and fishtail but never come closer than about 7-8km. No matter what direction I go, he will follow me, and then when I stop, he stops and does tight circles again, but never comes and gets me.

I can't get away from him no matter what I do. And he doesn't seem interested in catching me.

Known bug I believe with the base game.

From my experience you can head away from them at flank speed and their constant circling will mean you can pull far enough away to lose contact (keep going till night if needs be). Once you lose contact for a bit they seem to despawn.

[jwilliams]

Known bug I believe with the base game.

From my experience you can head away from them at flank speed and their constant circling will mean you can pull far enough away to lose contact (keep going till night if needs be). Once you lose contact for a bit they seem to despawn.


Or better still.....

Make him crash into land and he'll stop following you. :D

Yes known bug from stock game.:nope:

[Nisgeis]

I've only had the following destroyer once, so I've been unable to even attempt to debug it. It was probably early war when I saw it - has anyone noticed any patterns in when they appear?

[7thSeal]

has anyone noticed any patterns in when they appear?

I notice it happen mostly while using TC.

[Nisgeis]

I notice it happen mostly while using TC.

Does it happen when the destroyer is already there, or if you TC into him and slow down that it happens? Single destroyer only or one that is part of a group that gets stuck. I think the one I had was a solo destroyer. What he was doing way out there I'll never know. I think he was heading to that moon...

[7thSeal]

For me, I'm already in TC and have had both a single one passing by that gets stuck and a group of them passing by and one will break away and then get stuck within a certain range of my position. Saving and restarting usually fixes it or you can just run them aground as someone else has mentioned. :DL

Edit\ Another thing I notice is that I'm usually submerged when this happens... if that helps to point to anything.

[Salvadoreno]

I hate to compare mods or even ask people to compare mods, but i wanna get the best out of my experience. Does your mod and feared hunter 2.0 mod just increase the depth chage damage with small changes to destroyer AI files? Or vice versa? Like whats going on here.. I read feared hunters is a lil unrealistic,
Although not always
realistic this mod tries to put the fear "back" into the player when seeing a DD, forcing a thinking mans game, instead of point and shoot.

so is Uboat Killer more realistic or just plane harder? A few AI Uboat Kller mods have come out so im not quite sure what to use.

[SteelViking]

I hate to compare mods or even ask people to compare mods, but i wanna get the best out of my experience. Does your mod and feared hunter 2.0 mod just increase the depth chage damage with small changes to destroyer AI files? Or vice versa? Like whats going on here.. I read feared hunters is a lil unrealistic,

so is Uboat Killer more realistic or just plane harder? A few AI Uboat Kller mods have come out so im not quite sure what to use.

I can't speak for Nisgeis, and I don't want to cut either mod down, but I have tried both and I greatly prefer this mod (being U boat Killer). With Feared Hunters 2.0 I seemed to just get destroyers never leaving until I ran out of air every time. With U boat Killers I find the experience very realistic and tense. I have gotten the crap depth charged out of my boat a few times with it. I Still manage to get away usually, but not without paying the price.

Just my opinion/observation though.:salute:

[Nisgeis]

I hate to compare mods or even ask people to compare mods, but i wanna get the best out of my experience. Does your mod and feared hunter 2.0 mod just increase the depth chage damage with small changes to destroyer AI files? Or vice versa? Like whats going on here.. I read feared hunters is a lil unrealistic,

so is Uboat Killer more realistic or just plane harder? A few AI Uboat Kller mods have come out so im not quite sure what to use.

Hi Salvadoreno,

Both mods make changes to the AI scripting as well as the depth charge damage radius, e.g. how close the depth charge has to be to your boat in order to do damage. In stock, you won't get any damage unless a DD gets a direct hit. ddrgn's mod also reduces the effectiveness of the enemy sensors and makes the depth charges more powerful than in this mod.

Some very much prefer Feared Hunters over U-Boat Killer after trying both, so it depends on your playing style and what you think the enemy should do. Some find Feared Hunters harder than this mod and some vice versa. The very best thing you can do is to go out and find a convoy, save it when you find it and then play out your approach and attack twice, with each mod installed each time. Whichever encounter gives you the most 'realistic' (which is down to personal opinion) or most enjoyable experience, then go with that mod. Part of which one you prefer will be down to your playing style.

I can tell you that the philosophy behind this mod is to get them try to find you inteligently, but is more aimed at giving you a good mauling, rather than you dying quickly. In that way perhaps the mod name is a bit misleading. I found in SH3 that if I get attacked and just die, then I simply reload and start over, which can get a bit frustrating, if they keep killing me. With this mod, you should be shaken a lot and take systems damage, but not really lots of hull damage, so after a really bad attack you can recover and make a new attack, or if it was particularly bad, limp home to base for repairs.

If you use ddgrn's excellent Elite campaign mod, then that too will change the playing experience further and will step up the difficulty another level.

[Salvadoreno]

If you use ddgrn's excellent Elite campaign mod, then that too will change the playing experience further and will step up the difficulty another level.

I also use the elite camapgn with feared hunters. But i have yet to encounter any real DD attack yet due to my lack of skill in finding enemy konvois/ships lol.. But ill try both out. Thanks for advice and insight.

[scratch81]

First off love this mod. lived through my first depth charging, but not with out dings, bumps, and bruises. I know 2 hit me real hard, as they rolled me sideways almost 90 degrees. wrecked the engine room, however, but no pressure hull damage? the cheif had shouted the hull had been breached etc, but my damage control screen stated we're still at 100% couldn't see exactly how close they were (100% realism), but it did sound kinda distant (maybe 15m away at best), and the ones that followed sounded even more distant, but still did some component damage, but didn't notice any further shaking of the screen. Was exciting and thrilling none the less.

Over all, it feels like damage radius may be a bit too enlarged (as i didn't see how close the charges were, just gauging off how close it sounded).

Historically, a charge would have to be within 6-7m before it'd dent an undamaged pressure hull, but haven't read anywhere as far as how close they'd have to be for pipes to be exploding, engine and compressor getting wrecked, so I have no idea how large the damage bubble would have to be, just my two cents. Gonna turn on the external camera and intentionally aggrivate some destroyers, so i can watch next time, so i can give a bit more precise feedback.

Excellent work, and look forward to more, bigger, and better things on this front.

[M4XDmG]

First off love this mod. lived through my first depth charging, but not with out dings, bumps, and bruises. I know 2 hit me real hard, as they rolled me sideways almost 90 degrees. wrecked the engine room, however, but no pressure hull damage? the cheif had shouted the hull had been breached etc, but my damage control screen stated we're still at 100% couldn't see exactly how close they were (100% realism), but it did sound kinda distant (maybe 15m away at best), and the ones that followed sounded even more distant, but still did some component damage, but didn't notice any further shaking of the screen. Was exciting and thrilling none the less.

Over all, it feels like damage radius may be a bit too enlarged (as i didn't see how close the charges were, just gauging off how close it sounded).

Historically, a charge would have to be within 6-7m before it'd dent an undamaged pressure hull, but haven't read anywhere as far as how close they'd have to be for pipes to be exploding, engine and compressor getting wrecked, so I have no idea how large the damage bubble would have to be, just my two cents. Gonna turn on the external camera and intentionally aggrivate some destroyers, so i can watch next time, so i can give a bit more precise feedback.

Excellent work, and look forward to more, bigger, and better things on this front.

Depthcharges in real life inflicted hulldamage only when detonated just a few meters away from the sub.

[scratch81]

Depthcharges in real life inflicted hulldamage only when detonated just a few meters away from the sub.

From Uboat.net:

"The depth charge is the oldest anti-submarine weapon, being developed during World War One. Original idea dates back to the "dropping mine" concept of 1911. The Royal Navy Commander in Chief, Sir George Callaghan requested its production in 1914. The first effective depth charge (Type D) was the 300-pound (140 kg) barrel-like casing containing high explosives, normally TNT being developed in 1916. A "pistol" actuated by water pressure at a selected depth detonated the depth charge.
The 300-pound WWI depth charge could be detonated as deep as 300 feet (roughly 100 meters this is what britain was using early war, from what research i've done) but at the eve of that was the more formidable 600-pound (270 kg) version was developed.

Even though the massive explosive power of the 600-pound charge was impressive to both the escort and the U-boat, highly unnerving to the latter even, the depth charge was not the answer to the U-boat threat. The pressure hull of the U-boat was strong enough to withstand anything but a charge exploding 10 or 20 feet from its hull. To place the weapon this close to the U-boat was extremely difficult to say the least, especially since the U-boat normally took drastic evasive maneuvers at the very last moment. Thus most U-boats that were sunk by depth charges alone probably sank due to accumulated damage from repeated depth charge attacks. Many U-boats survived as many as 300 depth charges over a period of many hours.

The greatest amount of depth charges dropped on a single U-boat during a single-hunt in the war is believed to be 678 dropped onto U-427 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/../../boats/u427.htm) in April, 1945. Amazingly the boat survived the onslaught."

Hence why i think it could be toned back just a smidge, a barely audible charge (though it could be the direction i was facing at the time) that utterly devistates every component in ones engine room, to me, feels a little over the top, nor would it, from my perspective, roll a sub nearly sideways. As I stated in my previous post, i love the mod, to me, it just needs a bit more tuning to achieve something a bit closer to historical accuracy while still maintaining that tension filled thrill ride of being caught by escorts.

[Adlerson]

I'm interested in this mod, but I'm hesitant in using it because, from the description, it totally disables the thermal layer. Perhaps the thermal layer should be toned down, but totally disabling it isn't the right thing to do, IMHO. After all, the thermal layer is a real thing, and it was used during the war with the specific intent of losing the DDs that chase you. So why remove it from the game?
(If there is a reason/explanation I don't know about feel free to enlighten me. :) )

[Nisgeis]

Hi Scratch,

If it destroyed your whole engine room, the charge must have been very close. I don't seem to recall the loudness of DCs being particularly indicative of how close they were, I could be wrong though. I look forward to your further comments with the help of the external camera :).

Hi Adlerson,

Yes, this is the first draft - second draft soon (TM). The thermal layer was far too effective before and was an invisibility cloak, perhaps it was a bit over zealous to completely remove the effects. but the thermal layer system is not well modelled. In the Atlantic, layers would form on hot sunny days over the course of the day, so that by late afternoon, conditions for ASDIC were very poor, but this is not modelled. It's on all the time, or off all the time. You can get night time or day time from the scripts, but I don't think you can get local time of day. I'll re-visit it later, as I'm thinking of a few things regarding this, flares and a few other things to do with ASDIC interference.

If you want to re-enable the thermal layer, it's a setting in a /data/cfg/sim.cfg. Here is the original line:

Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=5.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 5 equals signal reduction to 20%

You can adjust this yourself, if you want to change the effectiveness of the thermal layer - the line shown is from stock, so stock reduction, once you get under the thermal layer, the enemy hydrophones are 20% as good as they were with you above the thermal layer, so they pretty much have to be on directly above you to find you.

[reaper7]

Yes, this is the first draft - second draft soon (TM). The thermal layer was far too effective before and was an invisibility cloak, perhaps it was a bit over zealous to completely remove the effects. but the thermal layer system is not well modelled. In the Atlantic, layers would form on hot sunny days over the course of the day, so that by late afternoon, conditions for ASDIC were very poor, but this is not modelled. It's on all the time, or off all the time. You can get night time or day time from the scripts, but I don't think you can get local time of day. I'll re-visit it later, as I'm thinking of a few things regarding this, flares and a few other things to do with ASDIC interference.


Hi Nisgis this may be of use to you:


def GetCurrentGameDateTime():
d = Game.CurrentGameDateTime
if d.Hour in [ 3,4,5,6 ]:
return True
else:
return False


You can put what ever times you want in the bracket.

Also you can set up the above using different veriables so to have different action at different times :up:.

Hope this is of help. :DL

[scratch81]

[QUOTE=Nisgeis;1413316]Hi Scratch,

If it destroyed your whole engine room, the charge must have been very close. I don't seem to recall the loudness of DCs being particularly indicative of how close they were, I could be wrong though. I look forward to your further comments with the help of the external camera :)./QUOTE]

Yeah scratch that, they were pretty close, maybe 13m away, which is what i'd been reading. as far as how i was gauging the "distance" by sound, the further they were, the more muffled and softer they were. however right on top of me, they sounded just the same as 20m away. odd... we need a better louder DC sound :D currently being harrassed by a single escort dropping 2-3 dc's per run pretty close together so right now they're not really doing anything.

Edit: i've definately not found a difference in volume between distant and close hits. odd. i'd have thought if it exploded next to my pressure hull, 250kg of tnt would sound more like an explosion and less like someone beating my boat with a pillow.

[Ducimus]

Nisgeis, i have a question.

Just because im a glutton for punishment, what do you suppose would happen if i reduced the hydrophone noise factor in the sim.cfg file from 1.3 to say, 0.75 or even 0.5? Maybe reduce the wave factor by that much as well?

I'm just curious since your familiar with how the AI is scripted. I do love this mod, and couldn't play SH5 without out. :yeah:

[The General]

Nisgeis, I do love this mod, and couldn't play SH5 without out. :yeah:I concur. Is there gonna be another update Nisgeis?

[Nisgeis]

Just because im a glutton for punishment, what do you suppose would happen if i reduced the hydrophone noise factor in the sim.cfg file from 1.3 to say, 0.75 or even 0.5? Maybe reduce the wave factor by that much as well?

I'm just curious since your familiar with how the AI is scripted.

Hmmm, interesting question. You'd certainly find that it was harder to evade in a storm than it was previously.

The hydrophone noise factor - that's the one that affects their passive sonar with respect to their own speed? If it is that, then I don't think that would have much impact. It would perhaps give them a slight edge over what they have now. There's a couple of scenarios I can see it making a small tactical difference, but they would be rare. If you're feeling adventurous, try it and see :DL.

I do love this mod, and couldn't play SH5 without out. :yeah:

It's like food, it always tastes better if someone else cooked it :).

I concur. Is there gonna be another update Nisgeis?

Soon (TM). I have some bits and bobs to finish up on the 3D TDC and 40k yard radar range mod that I just put out for SH4, which took ages. I've got a few plans I'd like to put in though. Unfortunately star shells don't illuminate the area, just like they didn't in SH4, so I'm not so sure about them.

[The General]

There is a very nasty feedback loop in the AI that keeps surface warships (friendly and enemy!) spinning around in your vicinity. It's as though they keep reaquiring a ghost contact nearby. A save/reload is the only way to break it (very annoying). Have you had any luck with this Nisgeis?

[7thSeal]

Tthat keeps surface warships (friendly and enemy!) spinning around in your vicinity.
A save/reload is the only why t o break it (very annoying).


Don't know if it happens to everyone the same but always happens to me when submerged. Surfacing while in TC and traveling a distance always gets rid of them for me, without having to save and restart.

[toudi667]

thanks :)

[frankiekam]

Hiya

I noticed that when I add U-Boat Killer AI mod to my soup, in the Marham Mission, when I surface my U-Boat, the destroyers take an awful long time before they fire on me. It is almost as though the British ships are *blind* to my 'sitting-duck' and surfaced U-Boat. So much so that I can steam right in the midst of the ships before they start firing on me! Is this a bug with the U-Boat Killer AI mod? Without the U-Boat Killer AI mod, the shells start coming in after 16 seconds or less when I surface my U-boat.

I installed these mods:
GWX - Alternate Loadscreen - Full Circle
GWX - Alternative Flotillas
GWX - Axis Mediterranean Aircraft Skins
GWX - Black Sea Campaign Files Only
GWX - Captain America's Officer Icons
GWX - English Nav Map and Grid Refs
GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects
GWX - Fix French
GWX - Indian Ocean Campaign Files Only
GWX - Lite Harbor Traffic
GWX - Main movie - 'Das Boot'
GWX - Merged Campaign
GWX - No Medals on Crew
GWX - VIIC41 Player Sub
U-Boat Killer AI Mod v1.02

Cheers
Frankie Kam

Update: I am so sorry. This mod is for Silent Hunter 5 !!! I installed it with JSGME inside Silent Hunter 3 (!) Arrgh!! Since I am on this topic, is there an equivalent mod for Silent Hunter 3 !?