Idea: secret, hidden forward operating bases for refueling and repairs

[Drifter]

I have been thinking about creating a campaign mod that adds 'secret, hidden forward operating bases' here and there in Japanese occupied territory, simulating support by local underground networks and coordination through British agents. Location and availability would depend on the year and month. Player sub would be able repair and refuel at these secret locations. I would probably limit the availability of secret, hidden forward operating bases to just one or two at a time. I have been considering creating a mod like this because of the common problem of player running out of fuel due to damage or mismanagement, and no way of calling for help.

Not sure how realistic or gamey this feature might be, but if anyone is interested in a mod like this, please let me know. :DL

[Drifter]

Now that I think about it, I guess I could also add a renown penalty for using these secret, emergency bases. Perhaps something like -2,500. Radio messages announcing their availability could also say something like xx Do not use base unless absolutely necessary xx :hmmm:

[G2B]

Been pondering the Sub-tender issue myself, for those times your engines just don't work quite right cause of the new sun deck in the engine room complete with swimming pool.

[Drifter]

Been pondering the Sub-tender issue myself, for those times your engines just don't work quite right cause of the new sun deck in the engine room complete with swimming pool.

:haha:

I wouldn't use sub tender ships in enemy-occupied territory. They would be too easy to detect by the Japanese. Rather these bases would represent small villages with docks, having repair equipment and fuel barrels kept hidden in the jungle.

[magic452]

Drifter, not a bad idea at all, could add a little something different. I like it.:up: Just refuel, no rearm though if that is possible. Engine repairs only but I don't see how you could do that. Big renown hit.

Magic

[Frumpkis]

I like the idea of a forward refueling operation, although to be realistic, it should probably be something like a clandestine offshore rendezvous with a sampan loaded with diesel drums. And refuel only, no engine parts or re-arming.

I can't see a sub commander wanting to actually bring the boat into a coastal port anywhere near occupied territory for this. Too risky, especially when the whole idea of a fleet boat is that it's self-contained for a long patrol and shouldn't really need this sort of thing very often, if at all. On the other hand, random events are a good way to shake up a campaign, so it's a good idea if it doesn't happen too frequently or predictably.

[Drifter]

Drifter, not a bad idea at all, could add a little something different. I like it.:up: Just refuel, no rearm though if that is possible. Engine repairs only but I don't see how you could do that. Big renown hit.

Magic

I agree, although I'm not sure it's possible to only refuel. I think that part is hard-coded.

[Drifter]

I like the idea of a forward refueling operation, although to be realistic, it should probably be something like a clandestine offshore rendezvous with a sampan loaded with diesel drums. And refuel only, no engine parts or re-arming.

I can't see a sub commander wanting to actually bring the boat into a coastal port anywhere near occupied territory for this. Too risky, especially when the whole idea of a fleet boat is that it's self-contained for a long patrol and shouldn't really need this sort of thing very often, if at all. On the other hand, random events are a good way to shake up a campaign, so it's a good idea if it doesn't happen too frequently or predictably.

It wouldn't represent a coastal port. Rather, a small forward base with a tiny dock that was being kept hidden from the Japanese.

I agree that it would be risky for a sub captain to try and refuel at a secret base like this. That is why I say that it would be used for emergencies only, such as heavy sub damage with major loss of fuel. It would not be considered a regular refueling base. Plus, if used, the captain would take a big renown hit.

[TH0R]

A very interesting idea. What is historical background behind this?

[Drifter]

A very interesting idea. What is historical background behind this?

I don't really have any specific historical information for these types of operations. I don't even know if they happened. I was just trying to think of a go-between fix for the player inability to call for help if out of fuel or severely damaged. Maybe someone here has some historical info.

[Armistead]

I'm sure some would like it, I doubt I would. You could make it just a refit so only minor repairs. What would be nice if like history there we're a few instances of subs taking fuel from other subs. If you could keep the torps out and limit fuel it may work , just don't think you can.

[Sailor Steve]

British and Australian coastwatchers spied on enemy ship movements and radioed them in. There were no secret bases. How would they even get drums of diesel fuel? That would require that some surface supply ship move deep into enemy waters to make the deliveries. It just didn't happen.

Not saying you shouldn't do it. It sounds like fun. Just saying don't imagine it's historical.

[danurve]

What about - what about a rendezvou with another AI US submarine and a transfer of fuel & a few fish instead of a base? That could simulate a milk-cow.

[CCIP]

I don't think US boats were equipped to remove/take on torpedoes at sea. They didn't have any external storage, unlike U-boats, and I don't believe they were equipped to extract torpedoes from the hull, except by firing them.

[danurve]

I see your point.
But was a US sub able to take on fuel at sea? Alot of times I have the fish to extend a patrol but lack the fuel. And I'm by no means waisting it, or at least trying to be fuel consious.

[Randomizer]

I don't beleive you will find any instances of Fleet Boats refueling at sea merely to continue operations. Although the USN lead the world at that time in underwiegh replenishment techniques, these were limited to the surface forces and submarines were independent operators.

Running out of fuel before expending torpedoes was a fact of life and Fleet Boats often would conduct "Double-Barreled Patrols" where they would replenish at a different base and then return to their patrol area. The patrol would end only when they returned to their home base and the parts of the patrol would be lettered (Patrol 2A & 2B for example) for administrative purposes. SH4 allows you to simulate this particularly later in the war when US island-hopping often creates new bases, you can refuel and replenish there but your patrol does not formally end.

Tenders where very valuable strategic assets and were not generally pushed into the forward areas until their absolute safety could be assured and a pretty thorough infrastructure was needed to support submarine operations. Running a base using junks and 45-gallon drums is very unlikely but SH4 is just a game afterall and you can make it work, more power to you.

Good Luck.

[Platapus]

I would rather see the option of getting a tow. Massive renown hit of course.

But when you are 500 miles from Pearl and you suddenly realize that Fleet Subs aint got no oars....

[clayp]

Sounds like a great idea to me!!!!!

[Rockin Robbins]

I don't think US boats were equipped to remove/take on torpedoes at sea. They didn't have any external storage, unlike U-boats, and I don't believe they were equipped to extract torpedoes from the hull, except by firing them.

There was one instance where a crazy (my opinion) captain pulled up in a nice little cove in Japanese waters, surfaced, took a couple of stern torpedoes on deck, floated them around to the bow and reloaded them there. Scared the crew to death. I bet he was called a few choice names.

Wonder what Admiral Lockwood said to him?

As for getting a tow, if you are in Japanese waters with no US ships anywhere near, you may get a tow but you won't like where you're going!:-?