[REL] Haramirs Sensor Mod

[Gandalfi2005]

Download Link Ver. 1.0 : http://www.filefront.com/15889065/Haramirs%20Sensor%20Mod%201.0.7z
Download Link Ver. 1.1 : http://www.filefront.com/15926505/Haramirs%20Sensor%20Mod%201.1.7z


This Mod is based on Ducimus fabulous WIP_RUB_AI_Sensor_Tweaks.

Haramirs Sensor Mod changes from WIP_RUB_AI_Sensor_Tweaks :

Reduced the mightiness of the Sonar a bit.
RUB Mod switched off the Thermal Layer Effect for Hydrophones and Sonar.
For Sonar i have added a little thermal layer effect.

- Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=2.0

During Test with the RUB_AI_Sensor_tweaks Mod, i couldnt escape the destroyers mostly due to the mightiness of the Sonar. Whatever i did, they ping me down. So I tweaked the Sonar a bit down.

Sonar Sensitivity=0.5 original 1
Hydrophone Sensitivity=0.7 original 1

I have tested this Settings in a mission with 2 Elite V&W Destroyers and later on with 2 mediocre V&W Destroyer.
With both Destroyer Types, i got a thrilling 'Depth Charges Battle Feeling' and was able to escape later on with some tactics.

And yes ... to play possum in the right moment is a valid tactic ;-)


Changes 1.1

After several Test in the the Stock Campaign, i decided to put Sonar a little bit up. Also the hydrophones a tick. I was able to escape a Heavy Destroyer pursuit with this settings. But if you are happy with 1.0 Settings, stick with Version 1.0

Sonar
- Sensitivity=0.7 original 1
Hydrophone
- Sensitivity=0.8 original 1

Hope you enjoy.

[thruster]

sounds great, thanks.:salute:

i remember in SH3 i'd attack from the side of a convoy from about 1500m, multiple hits, then silent running only to have the escorts then go straight for my position without even bothering for or needing a search. that still happen?

[Gandalfi2005]

sounds great, thanks.:salute:

i remember in SH3 i'd attack from the side of a convoy from about 1500m, multiple hits, then silent running only to have the escorts then go straight for my position without even bothering for or needing a search. that still happen?

Depending on your Signature (Noise, Profile, Light Condition, Waves) and their awarness. If they know you are there Elite Destroyer in good weather condition will see you early. In my Bad weather test, they have had some trouble to find you initally, but when they know where you are, its time to go deeper and its hard to escape. And they can kill you in 150 meters depth. Happend in one of my test.
Mediocre Destroyer will have some trouble to find you initally but when they know where your are they are thrilling too.

Elite Destroyer on silent running will hear you at round about 450 Meter. With Engine off and Silent Running State, they wont hear you but can ping you down.

[cothyso]

the link is broken, fix it please (though it still can be used by removing the front double http from it).

[Gandalfi2005]

the link is broken, fix it please.

sorry fixed now. :salute:

[Paco]

thanks

give it a try :salute:


Paco

[BowfinSS287]

thanks for this.....AI mods are the most important mod of all
you can have all the bells and whistles ,but if you don't have
a great cat and mouse game,your dead in the water

[reaper7]

Thanks for this :DL
Sounds like its gonna make thing interesting out there. :up:

[thruster]

thanks for your reply gandalfi2005.
definitely not trying to be difficult here, but genuinely curious: if im at PD and ahead 1/3 on a flank of the whole convoy at 1500m away, should i expect, is it realistic to expect an escort to track straight for my position without even trying to search?

i also had an issue [i think i was using an early NYGM] where once found it was near impossible to shake those sods.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Will try this :up:

[Gandalfi2005]

thanks for your reply gandalfi2005.
definitely not trying to be difficult here, but genuinely curious: if im at PD and ahead 1/3 on a flank of the whole convoy at 1500m away, should i expect, is it realistic to expect an escort to track straight for my position without even trying to search?

i also had an issue [i think i was using an early NYGM] where once found it was near impossible to shake those sods.

When they see your Periscope, you should expect that, yes. Or when they hear you, you should expect that too. But too hear you they have to run slow. All this is simulated. You can see how sensors work if you use the contact update on your map.

[Ragtag]

Ok, so i installed this mod. I came up on a small taskforce with 4 destroyers. I lined up to attack from short range with my engines off.
Weather was mid-day perfect visuals and i was about 500 meters from target when firing. First off, they didn't see my periscope, secondly i hit the destroyer and sank it. immediatly diving for 70 meters expecting the enemy to be quite pissed. But they didn't react at all. they just sailed off in straight line.
I started this from the Pen with a new mission so i expect the mod to be working?

[Mav87th]

At the mouth of the fjord to Edinburg i met a small convoy of 12 freighters and 2 A-class destroyers.

I had no trouble sneaking into the convoy and torpedoed 3 freighters. But now the trouble started.....

at 140 meters of water I could not get away at all. Cat and mouse game persisted over 10 hours, while I ever so slowly crawled more and more east towards deeper water....

Then the miracle happened - DENSE FOG !!

I took the chance and surfaced at full ahead when I had an opening towards east. Standing in the conning tower I could see the search lights of the two destroyers and hear them shooting. But non of the shots were close to my boat. So I kept running, running and running....

This was with Ducimus' AI & Uboat Tweaks mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905)

Now that I am pinned down outside Tyne (again two type A's) I will gladly try your mod. Ducimus' was/is a little to the two hard side for me.

I tried anything in the book. Low profile, silent running, deep as possible, only running engine when DC's exploding etc. etc. Nothing works. And the tommy's DC's work down below 100 meters, which is not historicaly correct afaik....(thats not Ducimus' mod that made that)

[Furia]

In the real thing, usually once a escort had locked a sub with the asdic and hidrophones, there was little chance the sub could sneak away.

On the araly times the destroyers had to leave the prey once they expended the depth charges or they had to resume escorting the convoy. With the Hunter Killers groups, there was no such issues and the escorts stayed there for the duration, that is the sub got sunk or had to surface after hours or days of pursuit.

Is such a "MOD" would have existed during WWII, probably the Germans would have won the Battle of the Atlantic :arrgh!:

Having a mod to reduce the escorts perfomance is just another step into arcade gamming IMHO.

Said this, as with many MODS there is no the right way or the wrong way, it is just about the taste and style of playing each player wants.

Any MOD is very welcome anyway. :yeah:

[ReallyDedPoet]

This was with Ducimus' AI & Uboat Tweaks mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905)

Now that I am pinned down outside Tyne (again two type A's) I will gladly try your mod. Ducimus' was/is a little to the two hard side for me.

I tried anything in the book. Low profile, silent running, deep as possible, only running engine when DC's exploding etc. etc. Nothing works. And the tommy's DC's work down below 100 meters, which is not historicaly correct afaik....(thats not Ducimus' mod that made that)

Same here, Duci's Mod kicked my ass a couple of times :yep:

[Gandalfi2005]

Ok, so i installed this mod. I came up on a small taskforce with 4 destroyers. I lined up to attack from short range with my engines off.
Weather was mid-day perfect visuals and i was about 500 meters from target when firing. First off, they didn't see my periscope, secondly i hit the destroyer and sank it. immediatly diving for 70 meters expecting the enemy to be quite pissed. But they didn't react at all. they just sailed off in straight line.
I started this from the Pen with a new mission so i expect the mod to be working?

The Destroyer Aggro Managment is depending on the Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers. It doesnt belong to the Sensors. I have tested this. Elite Destroyer will go after you instantly. They are very agressiv. Mediocre Destroyers will be more passive until they are very close aka they need a good contact to you. But when they are on you, they will do a good job with this sensor settings in my opinion.
The former Modders and i just tweak the Sensors for good Depth Charges Hunting.

[U-Bones]

The Destroyer Aggro Managment is depending on the Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers. It doesnt belong to the Sensors. I have tested this. Elite Destroyer will go after you instantly. They are very agressiv. Mediocre Destroyers will be more passive until they are very close aka they need a good contact to you. But when they are on you, they will do a good job with this sensor settings in my opinion.
The former Modders and i just tweak the Sensors for good Depth Charges Hunting.

In earlier releases, the subjective AI behavior was modified largely by sensor tweaks, but were often named and referred to as "AI Mods". That habit has carried over a bit in SH5, but now that we have an actual moddable AI layer, everyone should be more precise in the description so as to distinguish between the two.

In summary, I appreciate you naming this a Sensor mod rather than an "AI" mod.
:up:

[Ragtag]

The Destroyer Aggro Managment is depending on the Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers. It doesnt belong to the Sensors. I have tested this. Elite Destroyer will go after you instantly. They are very agressiv. Mediocre Destroyers will be more passive until they are very close aka they need a good contact to you. But when they are on you, they will do a good job with this sensor settings in my opinion.
The former Modders and i just tweak the Sensors for good Depth Charges Hunting.

Ah ok, now it makes sense :) Thanks!
But the destroyers aggro really needs a tweak. When a destroyer in a group of 4 suddenly get's torpedoed i'm pretty sure the 3 other immediatly started searching no matter how rookie the crew was. In game they just sail on drinking tea. It's plain silly.

[reaper7]

The Destroyer Aggro Managment is depending on the Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers.


Ah, are these generated randomly in game? Seems strange that 4 destroyers would have such low skill. I guess it's something the AI modders will be left to sort out... Oh well. :x

[Robert82285]

Originally Posted by Gandalfi2005 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1326699#post1326699)
The Destroyer Aggro Managment is depending on the Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers.
Originally Posted by reaper7 Ah, are these generated randomly in game? Seems strange that 4 destroyers would have such low skill. I guess it's something the AI modders will be left to sort out... Oh well. :x

Well I'm sure guys this can be modded in time (Destroyer Skill in the Mission Layers.), but I agree the Destroyers aggro is just plain silly. Thank you for this Mod Gandalfi, the more Modders, and the more we get involved with this game, I'm sure this will become a very decent Sim. Hell look at all the progress we made so far !

[oscar19681]

Does this also effect the merchants sensors? I mean i want to effect thge destroyers only.

[Ducimus]

This Mod is based on WIP_RUB_AI_Sensor_Tweaks.


If your gonna cite the source, at least cite the author when you know who it was. :haha: I'm not pitching a b*tch, i'm just saying. I've never had a problem with others using anything i do, and if i had, i wouldn't have posted it in public where others could find it if they knew where to look. :03:

edit: BTW


RUB Mod switched off the Thermal Layer Effect for Hydrophones and Sonar.


That is because thermal layers were deeper the uboats could go. The atlantic is much colder then the pacific.



During Test with the RUB_AI_Sensor_tweaks Mod, i couldnt escape the destroyers mostly due to the mightiness of the Sonar. Whatever i did, they ping me down.


Firstly, as the file notes, it is a Work In progress. I admit my first effort is tantamount to hitting the AI with a sledgehammer to get it to do something. This WIP was about fine tuning. Haven't gotten to that yet cause ive been busy with another project.

Secondly, when i see complaints like, "I can't get away", i wonder what was tried. (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm) Any AI adjustment i do, has one major thing in mind, to remove the "Go really deep, slow to 1 kt, and hit Time compression tell the DD goes way." You need to twist, turn, and be engaged in the game without much TC, or your never going to get away.

[Ragtag]

If your gonna cite the source, at least cite the author when you know who it was. :haha: I'm not pitching a b*tch, i'm just saying. I've never had a problem with others using anything i do, and if i had, i wouldn't have posted it in public where others could find it if they knew where to look. :03:

edit: BTW



That is because thermal layers were deeper the uboats could go. The atlantic is much colder then the pacific.




Firstly, as the file notes, it is a Work In progress. I admit my first effort is tantamount to hitting the AI with a sledgehammer to get it to do something. This WIP was about fine tuning. Haven't gotten to that yet cause ive been busy with another project.

Secondly, when i see complaints like, "I can't get away", i wonder what was tried. (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm) Any AI adjustment i do, has one major thing in mind, to remove the "Go really deep, slow to 1 kt, and hit Time compression tell the DD goes way." You need to twist, turn, and be engaged in the game without much TC, or your never going to get away.

Good answer. Looking forward to the next version. Thanks to this i'm having a blast now being hunted after sinking a ship or two. No more convoy wipeouts. Love the challenge so a big thanks to you. keep it up :yeah:

[Mav87th]

That is because thermal layers were deeper the uboats could go. The atlantic is much colder then the pacific.

Why was it pinned out in the U.Kmd.Hndb.(1942 edition) that the water should be measured for salinity and temperature to be able to use layers?

And in the same manual/book 6-7 specific places are mentioned where they are more profound then usualy (mentioned are Skagerrak, Kattegat, West coast of Norway, Pentland Firth, the Gulf Stream and Straits of Gibraltar)

Additionally in the book they write:

Position finding by ASDIC is very difficult, and almost impossible in:
Shallow water of varying depth(sand banks)
Where there are many wrecks
Narrow bays (Norwegian fjords)

as it is usually not an echo that is produced, but numerous echoes, which make it difficult to keep, but more especially to locate, the target.

[U-Bones]

Why was it pinned out in the U.Kmd.Hndb.(1942 edition) that the water should be measured for salinity and temperature to be able to use layers?

And in the same manual/book 6-7 specific places are mentioned where they are more profound then usualy (mentioned are Skagerrak, Kattegat, West coast of Norway, Pentland Firth, the Gulf Stream and Straits of Gibraltar)

Additionally in the book they write:

The answer is context.

Most of the North Atlantic IS too deep and cold, but obviously there are localities with various circumstances. To make a blanket statement about no reachable thermal layers and apply it to every square meter of the N. Atlantic is over generalization.

That said, it was largely true, and if you have to choose one or the other for the game ( do we still ?) then taking them out is certainly a choice that can be rationalized.

[oscar19681]

I installed this with JGME . But does this mod actually support JGME?

[Gandalfi2005]

I installed this with JGME . But does this mod actually support JGME?

Yes

[Mav87th]

Hmmm perhaps areas could be defined like harbour areas ??

[Ducimus]

No you cant select specific areas for thermal layers. They are either ON, or OFF. There is no in between. So you have to pick the most correct setting.

[Mav87th]

I was thinking more in the line of a script that gave a penalty to the sensors of a destroyer asdic or sub hydrophone/sonar if inside an area and the sub is below a certain(or even variable chance) depth.....

[Gandalfi2005]

Some little Tweaks available in Version 1.1. See changelog in first Post of this Thread.

Hope you enjoy. :rock:

[Ragtag]

Thanks for the update. loved 1.0.

[sergei]

Thanks, I'll try 1.1 :DL

[Mav87th]

Gandalfi2005 i just found this little piece of history.

You might wanna give it a visit if you have not already :yeah:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/ASW-51/index.html

[thfeu58]

Gandalfi you will have the values of the last sim.cfg. As the effect is in play?

http://s3.directupload.net/images/100404/7prg2ori.gif (http://www.directupload.net)

If the values are better here last?

http://s3.directupload.net/images/100404/o73fndsm.gif (http://www.directupload.net)

[Threesixtyci]

1.0 link seems to be down.

[mobucks]

Gandalfi2005 i just found this little piece of history.

You might wanna give it a visit if you have not already :yeah:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/ASW-51/index.html



thankyou for this friend! outstanding material for modders, outstanding reading for players.

[ScottyG]

Neither link not working, anybody have a link to either v1.0 or v 1.1???

[IronMike]

when I click the links, I get file not found. Can you re-upload pls, or is it just me?? Tx!

[quink99]

Link seems to be fixed as of today. It worked for me and the article is fascinating.

[IronMike]

I still get file not found.. Any chance anyone has another DL? Many thanks!

EDIT: I was referring to the download links of the MOD; not the history article. For me both version 1.0 and 1.1 do not work.

[Paco]

Hi,

I have found Version 1.1 on my HD:

Haramirs Sensor Mod 1.1.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/?x4opxkjkh9y2co4)

I hope it is the right one.


Greets Paco.