[TEC] Submarine Crew

[CCIP]

Okay, well, since this whole issue of not enough guys on the boat is a popular complaint - let's run our own little investigation, shall we?

My understanding that a norm for a Type VII boat was 45 men (ranging between 42 and 50 or so, depending on boat, year of war, and so forth).

Who were these men, and where were they during surface running, submerged cruising, and on battle stations? What were they doing there?

It would be great to come up with a diagram of the boat to help us along.

Here is how things currently stand (each red oval thingy represents a man, 27 in total at present), at least on surface cruising stations.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/myspb2006/crew.jpg

(used this diagram: http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/images/typeVIIC.jpg)

Who can help fill in the blanks?

[Sledgehammer427]

I guess I'll bite

okay.
from your diagram I notice two things right off the bat.
a. where's the rest of the watch crew?
b. the forward bunks in the torpedo room are empty. but that's because of the torpedoes, even on the surface the bunks are folded up so the torpedoes can be loaded.

but here's my theory.
if memory serves me right, the U-boats had a two-watch system. that would split the boat in half while some crew rested, the other would be on watch. I'm not sure how the watch rotation was set up, (I know for Fleet boats, it was 8 hours sleep, 8 hours maintenance or what have you, and 8 hours on watch)
so I'm guessing the dev's set it up so it looks like only the crew on active watch was visible, I'm not sure how 40 men would impact performance, but, I can't blame them for their decision.

[rsvette12]

Great reference for a modeling project, thanks a lot. :)

Regards, Rich

[LukeFF]

Some notes I've made on U-boat crew compositions:


Radiomen: there were typically four radiomen on board. Two would be petty officers (funkmaat/obermaat) and two junior enlisted sailors (funkgefreiter/obergefreiter). One would be in the radio shack, the other at the hydrophone station.
Bridge watch was typically one officer, one petty officer, and two junior enlisted sailors. The navigator and chief bosun also stood watch as the 3rd and 4th watch officers, respectively. There typically was also an officer cadet on board the boat as well who would stand watch.
Diesel compartment: this was headed by an Obermaschinist. Each watch typically consisted of one maschinenmaat/obermaat and two maschinengefreiter/obergefreiter.
Motor compartment: same as the diesel compartment.
Torpedo crew: typically one mechanikermaat/obermaat and two mechanikergefreiter/obergefreiter. Obermaat was the highest rating for a torpedo mechanic on a U-boat.
Control room: other than the chief engineer, typically two enlisted personnel from the maschinist ranks would be on duty at a time here: 1 maat/obermaat and 1 gefreiter/obergefreiter.

[Mav87th]

How about an inactive crewman in a bunk. It only needs a sleeping head and a blanket.....not much fps deduction in that.

Then fill up the bunks with "sleepers"

[kptn_kaiserhof]

yeh that gowd damn diagram looks so unrealistic

[John_Doe_16]

Hi,

the biggest factor for the small crew-size in SH5:

The bow-torpedo-room was the living space for many men. It had 12 bunks, which were "folded out" most of the time... (Only folded up when loading torpedoes). It was cramped and full, as described and photographed by LG Buchheim. There were "rotating" watches, so there were always many men in there...

In the game, however, the bunks are folded up all the time, and there are only three people in the room.

To make it more realistic, the bunks should be folded down most of the time with 10-12 people in the room... Maybe when you rig for "battlestations", it could be like it currently is, with folded-up bunks and people ready to load the torpedoes...

Pictures of a scale-model (first I could find online):

http://www.u-boot-modell.de/modellbau/innenraum/images/i_bugraum_bodenbretter_oben_g.jpg

With spare-torpedoes:
http://www.u-boot-modell.de/modellbau/innenraum/images/i_bugraum_bodenbretter_vorn_g.jpg

After spare-torpedoes were used:
http://www.u-boot-modell.de/modellbau/innenraum/images/i_bugraum_spaet_vorn_g.jpg

(Notice how the floor is a lot higher up with spare-torpedoes in place...)

All the best to you :yeah:

[gimpy117]

i just think all the crew will kill FPS.

remember the game already recommends a 512 card...so..they want it to be accessible

[CCIP]

Personally, I don't believe the crew will make much if any real FPS difference for most people. It's good to have a mod option, but I'm willing to wager the impact of this will actually be almost unnoticable for most people with solid video cards.

[CCIP]

Also, one more thing I'd draw attention to - if you look closely, you will discover that the game in fact renders only the compartment you're in + ones immediately adjacent. It does hide the others quite cleverly to save graphics processing power.

So again, I really don't believe that the extra crew will be a major issue for performance.

[Heretic]

Going forward on my crew mod, I'd like the crew to perform their proper roles during the various states - surfaced and submerged cruising, surfaced and submerged battle stations. I believe 1WO should be on the UZO in surface battle stations and manning the TDC for submerged. The Engine rooms crews should behave differently when surfaced and submerged. At this time, I'm not concerned with watches and how many crew members there are.

[CCIP]

I thought the scripts already made allowance for crew positions in different states, at least for surfaced/submerged/battle stations? Have you found this in the scripts?

[Heretic]

I thought the scripts already made allowance for crew positions in different states, at least for surfaced/submerged/battle stations? Have you found this in the scripts?

The abiltiy is there, but it's not currently being used. They just stay in the same places doing the same things regardless. I'd like to change that but I need information on where each crewman should be and what they should be doing in each state.

[Therion_Prime]

I dug around some files and from what I've seen, I believe that for each new crewman a waypoint has to be placed in the corresponding *.gr2 file.

I don't know if this can be accomplished with the goblin editor, or if you need 3DSMax.

On the other hand, I may be completely wrong :D

[Heretic]

I dug around some files and from what I've seen, I believe that for each new crewman a waypoint has to be placed in the corresponding *.gr2 file.

I don't know if this can be accomplished with the goblin editor, or if you need 3DSMax.

On the other hand, I may be completely wrong :D

You're right. That's what needs to happen. It can easily be done with scripting. I'm just trying to determine who should go where when.

Initial tests are not promising. Wp:IsCrewState(B_STATIONS) isn't triggering anything. I wonder if that flag is not currently functional.:hmmm:

[Highbury]

What would be great would be to have many of them in their racks under normal conditions, and some actual activity when you go to action stations.

If you click on your own sub in game it says you have 52 men aboard.. that is alot to squeeze into that little tube.

[CCIP]

What would be even greater, actually, is the ability to lower the bunks in the forward compartment in states other than alert/battle stations. This is where most of the crew of the sub would be located, but it's currently impossible for them to be thus due to the torpedoes being in the way. I'm sure there are ways to get around that with scripted animations (have bunks count as part of 'crew' models and remove them when needed), but it might be a little tricky...

[capthelm]

i just think all the crew will kill FPS.

remember the game already recommends a 512 card...so..they want it to be accessible


agree , nice to have the option i think, visuals being .... full/ med/ low /off.. crew settings ingame,hope the dev team add somthing like this later on.

[Heretic]

I'm not that interested in adding more crew. I'm more interested in getting the ones already there to behave in a more realistic manner.