Having to rotate the crew.

[breadcatcher101]

I started out playing SH2 when it came out. Then I got both SH3 and 4 shortly after 4 came out. I play SH4 most of the time as having to rotate the crew in SH3 is a pain. I am surprised they don't have an option to avoid this. Maybe I am over-looking it?

I know how to "quick clic" to move them but is there a simple way to get around having to do this at all?

I play stock, no mods.

[GREY WOLF 3]

Use the no fatigue mod or use sh3 commander:up:

[CaptainNemo12]

There is a no fatigue option in SH3 Commander, enable it and you're good to go!

[krashkart]

As mentioned above. I've noticed that the crew takes no damage with "No Fatigue" set, but at least you won't have to rotate them. :DL

[Sailor Steve]

SH3 was the first subsim to ever have crew management. They made a couple of mistakes with it, which is part of the reason for SH4.

I still play SH3 with all the mods, but I also play SH4 1.5 with Operation Monsun. Both are satisfying for different reasons.

But SH3's crew management has been unfixable. So far.:sunny:

[frau kaleun]

As mentioned above. I've noticed that the crew takes no damage with "No Fatigue" set, but at least you won't have to rotate them. :DL

By "takes no damage" do you mean if they are wounded at all they just die, and have no chance to recover?

[Dissaray]

He may mean that the crew don't get injured at all and therefor can't die. I don't know how this SH3 commander function works as I can't get it to work for me. I just edited the files manulay.

[Snestorm]

If you're realy set on it, you can mod out the fatigue totaly.

Go into the Basic Configuration File.
Scroll down, and look for "FATIGUE_COEF".
There are 12 compartments listed there.
AFTER BACKING UP or making a written copy of the original file settings, change all the factors to 0 (That is zero).

Compartments 0 through 11.
Regular Factor. Special Factor. Bad Weather Factor.

It may, or may not matter but, try to maintaine the same number of digits.
F.eks. 0.01 becomes 0.00.

Hope this helps.

[krashkart]

By "takes no damage" do you mean if they are wounded at all they just die, and have no change to recover?

What I meant is that I have not noticed any change to their health in combat. All of my subs have suffered some serious damage at some point, and when I thought certain members of my crew should have been horribly wounded or even deceased, they weren't. Not even a scratch. The only thing that has ever killed my crew has been the career-ending damage.

I had the No Fatigue option set as soon as I found SH3Commander. Too much micromanagement rotating the crew all the time otherwise.

If you're realy set on it, you can mod out the fatigue totaly.


I had thought about doing that. I'll have to have a look in there to see what all I can change. It's nice to not have to watch my crew during the lower TC moments, but when the heat starts pouring on I really expect to lose some of my crew, and I never do. Thanks for the heads up.

[breadcatcher101]

Thanks for the replies, I might wind up getting Commander one day.

I play SH 4 mostly but I do like 3 as well. Have yet to "go to war", I just do some of the quick missions, especially "Happy Times".

The worst was U-505, did it once way back. Bad day to try to quit smoking on that one. You would think there would be some sort of approach but no, all of a sudden there you are under attack by the whole US navy. So much for alert lookouts. Upon crash diving the last thing I saw was a DE firing a salvo of hedgehogs at me.

I still use auto targeting on SH3, just a game to relax with. I know that once I go to manual as I do in SH4 I'll never go back.


As for crew deaths, I found out first thing about them, in training of all places. I had lookouts and I was below checking out everything. I thought the lookouts would alert me as to this island that came up but no they didn't. We slam into it at good speed with damage. I backed off the boat and I think it sank, can't recall it's been so long ago. Very impressive performance on my part.

[frau kaleun]

What I meant is that I have not noticed any change to their health in combat. All of my subs have suffered some serious damage at some point, and when I thought certain members of my crew should have been horribly wounded or even deceased, they weren't. Not even a scratch. The only thing that has ever killed my crew has been the career-ending damage.

Interesting. I've taken some damage but nothing that I thought at the time would've wounded any crew. Altho we did get strafed by those two planes on the last patrol, but damage to the boat was so minimal before we shot them down that I didn't really think about it. I'll have to see what happens in future.

I had the No Fatigue option set as soon as I found SH3Commander. Too much micromanagement rotating the crew all the time otherwise.

Same here - it's not something the commander should have to deal with, making sure the watches rotate properly and everyone gets to bed on time, unless special circumstances dictate making changes to the normal routine. To tell you the truth, though, sometimes I actually start to feel sorry for the poor guys who've been up on the bridge for several days straight and manually replace them. And then there's the times I go up there and find that a storm has blown up and the same five guys are standing there with no foul-weather gear on, and I haz a sad. :O:

I had thought about doing that. I'll have to have a look in there to see what all I can change. It's nice to not have to watch my crew during the lower TC moments, but when the heat starts pouring on I really expect to lose some of my crew, and I never do. Thanks for the heads up.

Same here, thanks.

[Damo]

I play without fatigue simply because you only have to get distracted whilst on TC and it's 'Low crew efficiency!' or whatever, gets real tiresome. I'm actually thinking about doing a real time patrol in the summer when my work dies down and I can afford to give myself some time off, for that I will re-enable fatigue, the GWX 8 hour option, it'll help keep me to a schedule. I just hope I find a convoy early on as after 2 weeks with only a handful of contacts on TC I get restless, in real time I might just crash dive into the Rockall bank for the hell of it.

My brother's coming to stay with me for a couple of months and he's interested in the sim so I'm gonna show him the ropes and we're gonna take it in shifts at the helm, probably in time with the watch changes.

I'd like to think I could become one of the few people to complete a 1xTC patrol, although my brother may screw it up for me if he runs into bother on his shift and I'm not around. I've already said that he shall be named Bernard for the duration, although he has no idea what that means, no doubt he will by the end, as long as he doesn't earn the name...

:88):nope:

[Flopper]

Funny. At first I thought it was a pain, but after a while I found I rather enjoy moving the crew around, especially when they get fatigued and it becomes a challenge to get things done, like reload the torps. It can get to be frustrating, but it's part of the challenge. When I played sh4, I became detached from the whole element of crew fatigue.

Also, I've had wounded crew... they get a red cross icon in the panel where the medals are to indicate this. I dunno. SH3 rules.

[Sailor Steve]

I can't say I enjoy it, but I feel guilty if I don't. On the other hand it does make me go to real time every four game hours (two in a storm - so I guess I should have just said two) and when I do I have a look around, sometimes do a practice dive.

So for me it has its benefits.

[krashkart]

Also, I've had wounded crew... they get a red cross icon in the panel where the medals are to indicate this. I dunno. SH3 rules.

Yeah, the "No Fatigue" model I use somehow prevents my crew from being wounded or killed. Before I started using that I did lose a few, and others were wounded. I miss that aspect. Won't have a chance to look into it further till next week.

Those were the words I was grasping at earlier. They didn't cross my mind until now.

I can't say I enjoy it, but I feel guilty if I don't. On the other hand it does make me go to real time every four game hours (two in a storm - so I guess I should have just said two) and when I do I have a look around, sometimes do a practice dive.

So for me it has its benefits.

I find myself somehow too impatient to play it straight in SH3. Still have a smidgen of recklessness left in me after all. :rotfl2:

[Sailor Steve]

I find myself somehow too impatient to play it straight in SH3. Still have a smidgen of recklessness left in me after all. :rotfl2:
:rock:

On the other hand, awhile back people were joking about reckless behaviour, and I suggested playing as if your life was really on the line. When someone asked if I meant killing yourself when you die, I said "No. Nothing so drastic. Just put the game away and don't play it for a year."

[krashkart]

:rock:

On the other hand, awhile back people were joking about reckless behaviour, and I suggested playing as if your life was really on the line. When someone asked if I meant killing yourself when you die, I said "No. Nothing so drastic. Just put the game away and don't play it for a year."

:rotfl2::rotfl2:

Sailor Steve takes the Gold. :DL

[Jimbuna]

I must confess to playing 'no fatigue' because I like to concentrate on other areas of the game.

In RL the crew were expected to rotate without the Kaleun putting them to bed or giving them a wake up call.

[frau kaleun]

I must confess to playing 'no fatigue' because I like to concentrate on other areas of the game.

In RL the crew were expected to rotate without the Kaleun putting them to bed or giving them a wake up call.

Do you know offhand whether or not using the "No Fatigue" model via SH3 Commanders does anything to the bits of programming that control other aspects of crew health, i.e. them getting wounded in action? As opposed to just killed outright when the kaleun really screws up. Cuz we were kind of wondering about that.

[Flopper]

In RL the crew were expected to rotate without the Kaleun putting them to bed or giving them a wake up call.

A matter of preference, I guess... for me it gives an additional aspect to be concerned with. I can certainly understand not wanting to fool with it. As far as real life goes, there's no WAY I'd be on a boat... I'd have volunteered as a Luftwaffe pilot right away! :D

[Flopper]

:rock:

On the other hand, awhile back people were joking about reckless behaviour, and I suggested playing as if your life was really on the line. When someone asked if I meant killing yourself when you die, I said "No. Nothing so drastic. Just put the game away and don't play it for a year."

I may take it too seriously, but I've spent many hours at the practice range, as I didn't feel qualified to start a career. So many hours, that I'm glad I don't really know the total. I've only been sunk once, and have spent a lot of time running away from warships. I've never sunk a warship, or shot down a plane.

I'd been playing for a couple of months, and when I finally started up a career, got out in the clear night sky, and noticed, hey, that looks just like Casseopea. Then noticed the Big Dipper, Polaris, etc. Amazing! I've spent a lot of time in flight simulators, but nothing has ever quite grabbed me like sh3, especially with all the fantastic mods.

[Jimbuna]

Do you know offhand whether or not using the "No Fatigue" model via SH3 Commanders does anything to the bits of programming that control other aspects of crew health, i.e. them getting wounded in action? As opposed to just killed outright when the kaleun really screws up. Cuz we were kind of wondering about that.

Not that I'm aware of :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

I may take it too seriously, but I've spent many hours at the practice range, as I didn't feel qualified to start a career. So many hours, that I'm glad I don't really know the total. I've only been sunk once, and have spent a lot of time running away from warships. I've never sunk a warship, or shot down a plane.
Same here. I started a career fairly early, but I always go to my assigned patrol area and stay there. My tonnage scores are appropriately low, and I've had more than one patrol that was completely empty. But I don't die much, either.

I'd been playing for a couple of months, and when I finally started up a career, got out in the clear night sky, and noticed, hey, that looks just like Casseopea. Then noticed the Big Dipper, Polaris, etc. Amazing! I've spent a lot of time in flight simulators, but nothing has ever quite grabbed me like sh3, especially with all the fantastic mods.
Aren't those stars something. I use a mod that makes the moon much smaller, and I think it looks better than the SH4 one. The feel of just being on deck at night is an awesome experience.

[frau kaleun]

Not that I'm aware of :nope:

Okay, thanks. I think Krashkart mentioned that no one in his crew ever seems to get wounded even when he takes enough damage that he expects casualties on board. So far everybody always stays perfectly healthy, right up until something bad enough happens that the boat is lost and everybody's dead, including him.

I've never had any wounded either, and I also use the No Fatigue from SH Commander. Didn't think it would make a difference, but wasn't sure if the fatigue/health factors were so closely tied together that it might.

[frau kaleun]

Same here. I started a career fairly early, but I always go to my assigned patrol area and stay there. My tonnage scores are appropriately low, and I've had more than one patrol that was completely empty. But I don't die much, either.


Aren't those stars something. I use a mod that makes the moon much smaller, and I think it looks better than the SH4 one. The feel of just being on deck at night is an awesome experience.

Ohhh cool because I've been wondering but keep forgetting to ask if the night sky in the game is correctly modeled to show real world constellations. (I guess I could just stay on the bridge long enough to look for them, but so far I haven't taken the time.)

Thanks for reminding me about the small moon mod, too, I've been meaning to try that out.

[Flopper]

Ohhh cool because I've been wondering but keep forgetting to ask if the night sky in the game is correctly modeled to show real world constellations. (I guess I could just stay on the bridge long enough to look for them, but so far I haven't taken the time.)

Thanks for reminding me about the small moon mod, too, I've been meaning to try that out.

The constellations blew my mind. I'm seeing a small moon (actual rl size, i'd say) which I think is included in the olc mod. I also have looked up the phase of the moon for the actual dates, and although I've read somewhere it was not correct, was indeed spot on the few times I checked. I really can get into that type of detail, and I've never seen it before in a game.

[Sailor Steve]

The constellations are awesome. The only thing lacking is the fact that on a clear night at sea there are many times more stars than in the game. It's an unbelievable sight.

[frau kaleun]

The only thing lacking is the fact that on a clear night at sea there are many times more stars than in the game.

This I know from having spent a little bit of time in the Arizona desert. I'm not a desert person by nature and I can tell you I'd never choose to live there, but on a clear night out away from the city - awesome.

I grew up in "the country" and even though we didn't have an unobstructed "horizon to horizon" view of the night sky, I still miss being able to look up and see... well... everything. Too much light on the ground in the evenings where I'm at now.

[Flopper]

The constellations are awesome. The only thing lacking is the fact that on a clear night at sea there are many times more stars than in the game. It's an unbelievable sight.

I can imagine. The closest I've come to something like that was standing on a frozen Flagstaff lake in Maine one moonless January night. It was about 15 below zero, and the lake was creaking, nobody around for many miles.

I could see Andromeda with the naked eye! We had a little 5 inch reflector and the main event was Saturn, of course. I'll never forget that night. I've always at least needed binoculars to make out Andromeda. It must be unbelieveable with no moon on the open sea.

[krashkart]

Okay, thanks. I think Krashkart mentioned that no one in his crew ever seems to get wounded even when he takes enough damage that he expects casualties on board. So far everybody always stays perfectly healthy, right up until something bad enough happens that the boat is lost and everybody's dead, including him.

I've never had any wounded either, and I also use the No Fatigue from SH Commander. Didn't think it would make a difference, but wasn't sure if the fatigue/health factors were so closely tied together that it might.

I just found out that my crew will indeed take damage with No Fatigue selected in SH3 Commander. Ran into a convoy on a previous patrol and got shot to pieces by several armed freighters. Lost 11 crew total, including the WO. 1 wounded.

Imagine my shock. :rotfl2:

[Paul Riley]

While using the 'no fatigue' function of Commander I have had watch crew (a while ago now) injured and even killed from strafing machine gun fire from aircraft.

[Grim Nigel]

I know how to "quick clic" to move them but is there a simple way to get around having to do this at all?

I always use GWX fatigue model as I consider making sure compartments are operating at optimum efficiency a vital part of the simulation experience. I dont find it tedious because swapping out fatigued crew is as simple as double clicking a compartment title. Takes only seconds to rotate shifts accross the entire boat :DL

Only works when crew are showing the fatigued symbol, but they are automatically sent to an available quarters and fresh crew are put in their place.

[frau kaleun]

The constellations are awesome.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=163&pictureid=1399

Orion's always been my favorite. I think I know what I'm gonna want as a custom emblem if I ever get to the point of playing around with that!

[Jimbuna]

I always use GWX fatigue model as I consider making sure compartments are operating at optimum efficiency a vital part of the simulation experience. I dont find it tedious because swapping out fatigued crew is as simple as double clicking a compartment title. Takes only seconds to rotate shifts accross the entire boat :DL

Only works when crew are showing the fatigued symbol, but they are automatically sent to an available quarters and fresh crew are put in their place.

To each their own I suppose....some people find the micro management tedious, some enjoy it.

Play the game the way you enjoy it most http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Flopper]

To each their own I suppose....some people find the micro management tedious, some enjoy it.

Play the game the way you enjoy it most http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

I work with a couple of younger devs who would find the whole series tedious. I showed one of them some screenshots, and he said, "what is that, some kind of drafting class?" :haha:

[Grim Nigel]

To each their own I suppose....some people find the micro management tedious, some enjoy it.

Play the game the way you enjoy it most http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

I've always thrived on complexity anyway :DL. As I understand it, a boat captain wouldnt be managing the task of crew placements, there would be an officer who acts as a crew manager, then if that officer has any concerns he would then inform the captain of any problems. But the way I see it, the crew management screen could be considered that officers general summary of the overall activity and crew morale on the boat.
And since everyones lives depends the alertness and proper performance of tasks by the crew, I think a Captain would take direct measures if there was anything that could be considered a danger to the boat and its crew.

Besides all that, its just something extra to do during the long hours of hunting and stalking the enemy :D.

[Brer Rabbit]

I used to enjoy using the various fatigue models, but I could not put up with the constant "sit down strikes in the engine room, especially during crisis times. In RL I think the kaluen would have walked into the engine room and ended it with his lugar. If fatigue only resulted in less spped, longer load times or missed visual or sound contacts, I could put up with it.

So I chose to play with fatigue turned off. I am glad to know that it doesn't keep injuries or KIA from occurring.

I know this is a perennal discussion, but I never get tired of reading the various opinions on this and many other matters.

Brer Rabbit

[kabex]

He may mean that the crew don't get injured at all and therefor can't die. I don't know how this SH3 commander function works as I can't get it to work for me. I just edited the files manulay.

Not true, a few days ago 7 of my crew died because I ran my sub into the ground after plotting a course and not clicking "follow course". :/

[Grim Nigel]

The stock fatigue model is aweful, if there wasnt any others available I would be using a No Fatigue mod for sure. The GWX model is set up nicely and suits my style of play perfect. I tried the NYGM mod a long time ago and found it a little strange but I can understand the theory behind it ( long term battle fatigue I think it was trying to represent, assuming that was also the mod that used it. My memory isnt as good as it used to be lol )

[Gilbou]

What I would like as fatigue model is crew starts at 100 %
Then the longer I remain at sea, the more fatigue accumulates
Until it gets so low I have to go back to home port to end
patrol so the crew would rest.

0 % fatigue at beginning
And when it reaches 10 % or so, I got to go back to port
and efficiency remains as low as possible to allow for sub
to work, but no more until patrol is ended.

[Wulfmann]

I don't mind the management part but what gives me the desire to mod the basic cfg (I will now try that) is the simple fact we continually improve our crew making them almost supermen by patrol 15 and in real life experienced crew would be transferred to new U-boats and replaced by rookies.
We therefore concentrate on (as an example) getting four chiefs with torpedo ratings that between them are all that is needed to load the fish in both rooms as this reduces the number of guys we have to move.
If the no fatigue modding works I can just leave a reaslistic number of ratings where they should be and have a full compliment instead of the 41 guys (Minimum # allowed seamen) that are all special forces guys.
I can then pretend they rotate and that may not be the same thing but it would be closer to real than he current system.

I use to be a Schlachtboot attacking convoys with 20+ escorts (My own modding) sometimes spending many hours real time maneuvering to constant depth charge bombardments always succumbing eventually.
It was Erich Hartmann highest scoring fighter pilot in history who realized luck would run out of the best dog fighter and suggested being a sneaky assassin was safer.
I have adopted a stay away from heavily guarded convoys, shoot from outside, take what I can and be gone and ply the safer less guarded waters.
After Pauchenschlag I head down to the Capetown/Montevideo route and then the Brazil/Freetown route making the North Atlantic a forgotten zone where in the happy times I spent all my time in a type7C

Kind of funny but I really got shell shocked form all the depth charging and just could not take the pressure anymore. I traded in my hand to hand combat attitude for a camouflaged sniper.

But, there is a realistic aspect because we have no Wolf-packs and one U-boat attacking a convoy ringed with 2 layers of escorts just did not happen per say so I have adopted tactics that better suit the game's limitations. (I switch to a Type9C end of 1941) and transfer to Norway mid 44 all this if I survive and having only completed one total war career in any GW (That one in GWX3.0gold) I give the what I try to do side.

Wulfmann

[Grim Nigel]

Does anyone know if its possible to modify the minimum "green bar" level to keep engines running or is that hard coded like a lot of other unmoddable stuff?

After a little study it seems the green bars in both engine rooms need to be maintained at fairly high levels just to keep the engines ticking over. It would be a little more realistic if speed dropped instead of engines being cut completely, but a reduced minimum level would be a compromise if nothing else could be done about it.

[Jimbuna]

The quickest and simplest way is to play using 'no fatigue'

[Gilbou]

Use SH3 Commander. You have various fatigue models available.
Either choose no fatigue or GWX/8h model (I use this one works
very fine)

[krashkart]

Does anyone know if its possible to modify the minimum "green bar" level to keep engines running or is that hard coded like a lot of other unmoddable stuff?

After a little study it seems the green bars in both engine rooms need to be maintained at fairly high levels just to keep the engines ticking over. It would be a little more realistic if speed dropped instead of engines being cut completely, but a reduced minimum level would be a compromise if nothing else could be done about it.

A trick there is to qualify an officer and a petty officer or two as mechanics. With that you probably won't need many more crew members in the engine compartments.

I don't know what to modify, if anything, to tweak the efficiency bar.

[Sailor Steve]

Orion's always been my favorite. I think I know what I'm gonna want as a custom emblem if I ever get to the point of playing around with that!
You're scaring me.:help:

[frau kaleun]

You're scaring me.:help:


Yeah, I get that a lot. :O:

[Wulfmann]

If you're realy set on it, you can mod out the fatigue totaly.
Go into the Basic Configuration File.
Scroll down, and look for "FATIGUE_COEF".
There are 12 compartments listed there.
AFTER BACKING UP or making a written copy of the original file settings, change all the factors to 0 (That is zero).
Compartments 0 through 11.
Regular Factor. Special Factor. Bad Weather Factor.
It may, or may not matter but, try to maintaine the same number of digits.
F.eks. 0.01 becomes 0.00.
Hope this helps.

Thanks, I did this and it works perfectly (although I forgot to zero one line in the stern torpedo room so guys were losing there but fixed it after the patrol)

This takes a couple minutes to do and I, of course, did this with the boat in port but in mid career if that is a concern.

I can not believe how easy this fix was and how much time it saves because i can place the guys where they need to be and leave them there for good (except the torpedo room officer and watch officer both need to be moved)

Wulfmann

[Joe Bob]

I was considering trying the no fatigue mod at one time.
There were certainly times I know I would have brandished the Walther at the engine crew.


But now into my 11th patrol I find myself feeling a bond with the crew as ordinary seamen step up and perform like petty officers and crew stations not needing to be lead by officers. I had a feeling of pride and confidence in the crew as we engaged in a 2 day running scrap with a convoy with little time for rest. I have come to enjoy the nurturing of a crew to until they are a well oiled machine.

[Grim Nigel]

I have come to enjoy the nurturing of a crew to until they are a well oiled machine.

Same here :salute:

Its just a matter of curiosity really as to whether the green bars can be modded. I tend to tinker with files and customise various aspects to my own tastes.