View Full Version : Some Issues Common (it seems) to all Megamods
The following are some problems I've had with SH4 1.5 and which seem to persist in every megamod for SH4 1.5, so maybe they are hard-coded--not fixable, but until I ask the experts, I'll never know.
#1
Playing an American Career, after ID-ing a target, I have to use the mouse to click through the Recognition Manual until I have found the identified ship. Unlike SH3 GWX, and unlike SH4 when playing as a U-Boot, I cannot just click on the ship name in the TDC and have my Rec Manual open to the correct page. There are a lot of ships in that Rec Manual now. All that clicking can actually be painful. If the Manual can't open to the proper page, how about a Keyboard button to flip through the Manual? I'd rather tap than click.
#2
Here is another thing which is apparently common to all mods and therefore either represents an unfix-able problem, or no problem except my failure to understand the device's function. In the Command Room there is a bulkhead with gauges on it. All of these gauges work correctly, but (or so it seems to me) the compass is screwy. The compass shows only the Cardinal Directions, N,S,E,W and it has an arrow pointer which indicates the direction of travel of my sub relative to those headings. But the arrow pointer seems backwards for East and West, although it points true to North and South. If I turn my sub to Due East, the pointer indicates Due West. It can't be that I'm looking at the wrong end of the pointer, since there is only one end. If I turn my sub to SW, the pointer points SE, and there is no way to correct for it except to consider SE as SW and vice versa.
There are plenty of compasses, but it irks me nonetheless.
#3
One other thing. It is not realistic that one should have to have a target framed in any of the scopes+TBT in order to use the Stadimeter. One should be able to pull down a split image of the open ocean and send a range and bearing to the TDC based on the mast height currently dialed into the TDC range finder (using Target Dial Fix) and the position of the scope\TBT. This is more than just a niggling realism issue. The quickest way to target a torpedo (set a specific gyro angle) is to point the scope and use the stadimeter to send a range and bearing to the TDC. When trying to "hip shoot" a target that is zig-zagging, often I have to turn off the Position Keeper, dial in a guess as to AOB, set target speed to zero since I am manually leading the target at close range, then point the scope at the area of ocean at which I expect the torpedo to intercept the target and lock in the bearing and range with the Stadimeter. As the Stadimeter works now, I have to point right at the target--have to have it in my crosshairs, or I cannot use the stadimeter--so I cannot point out ahead of it and input a lead. This is frustrating. Using the U-boat interface--KiUB--doing this kind of snap-shooting is the simplest thing in the world--the torpedoe's gyro angle is continuously updated as the attack scope pans. Furthermore--using the KiUB interface, one can use the German version of the Stadimeter without being locked onto or even having a target in the scope. So why can't we do the same with the American version?
Any comments knowledgeable, helpful, or otherwise will be read with interest.
FIREWALL
02-12-10, 10:17 PM
Good post nodlew :up:
I hope some good answers come forth. :salute:
The following are some problems I've had with SH4 1.5 .....
#2
Here is another thing which is apparently common to all mods and therefore either represents an unfix-able problem, or no problem except my failure to understand the device's function. In the Command Room there is a bulkhead with gauges on it. All of these gauges work correctly, but (or so it seems to me) the compass is screwy. The compass shows only the Cardinal Directions, N,S,E,W and it has an arrow pointer which indicates the direction of travel of my sub relative to those headings. But the arrow pointer seems backwards for East and West, although it points true to North and South. If I turn my sub to Due East, the pointer indicates Due West. It can't be that I'm looking at the wrong end of the pointer, since there is only one end. If I turn my sub to SW, the pointer points SE, and there is no way to correct for it except to consider SE as SW and vice versa.
There are plenty of compasses, but it irks me nonetheless.
I'm joining you in your disappointment with #2 the CR. That Aft Nav station shouldn't even be there from pictures I've seen. But it is there.
That aft gyro-repeater compass box looked to me like it was designed to be an engine telegraph box (because it matches the other box to the left with the same knob) plus there is 1 other gyro-repeater compass by the helmsman CR station - plus the gyroscope in the CR so I just got rid of it on my install and with much help moved it to the right, changed it to a telegraph and put a knot-meter in the middle instead, but that idea went over like a lead balloon. I'd like to see somebody gut that whole station someday. At least Vickers made things look and work better however it is still devoid of reality.. lol.
Vickers did a tremendous job with the interiors so you might want to try his. I'm using his interiors now. I think he may have that Aft Nav station gyroscope working correctly and I believe he fixed the other gyroscope and gyro repeater to have the outer rings correct ... at least one of the outer rings was 180d off if I remember right.
Happy Hunting!
Art
#3
One other thing. It is not realistic that one should have to have a target framed in any of the scopes+TBT in order to use the Stadimeter. One should be able to pull down a split image of the open ocean and send a range and bearing to the TDC based on the mast height currently dialed into the TDC range finder (using Target Dial Fix) and the position of the scope\TBT. This is more than just a niggling realism issue. The quickest way to target a torpedo (set a specific gyro angle) is to point the scope and use the stadimeter to send a range and bearing to the TDC. When trying to "hip shoot" a target that is zig-zagging, often I have to turn off the Position Keeper, dial in a guess as to AOB, set target speed to zero since I am manually leading the target at close range, then point the scope at the area of ocean at which I expect the torpedo to intercept the target and lock in the bearing and range with the Stadimeter. As the Stadimeter works now, I have to point right at the target--have to have it in my crosshairs, or I cannot use the stadimeter--so I cannot point out ahead of it and input a lead. This is frustrating. Using the U-boat interface--KiUB--doing this kind of snap-shooting is the simplest thing in the world--the torpedoe's gyro angle is continuously updated as the attack scope pans. Furthermore--using the KiUB interface, one can use the German version of the Stadimeter without being locked onto or even having a target in the scope. So why can't we do the same with the American version?
Any comments knowledgeable, helpful, or otherwise will be read with interest.
I find manual TDC in SH4 much easier than in SH3. For example, finding a proper gyro angle on the zig-zaging target is farely easy in SH4. First you ID the target, then find a range and send it to TDC. After 2-3 min you send another range (usually after the target has zig-zagged once or twice so you can estimate its new course) to the TDC. After you have 2 ranges/bearings, click the chronometer icon on the speed sub-menu of the TDC (or in other words - your XO will do the job of calculating the proper target hdg for you). After you have the heading and estimated speed - enter it in the TDC. Entering the hdg is a bit 'tricky' since the dial on the left doesn't follow the one on the right but it is fairly easy to do. After you have done all that - send another range to the TDC and activate the Stadimeter and you're good to go. :up:
I try to avoid this method as it is too easy for me, only if I am spotted I will use it, as it gives me the needed gyro angle very quickly. The method I like the most is the O'Kane's method, described in one of the videos here. Probably in the sticky here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931
&
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795
vickers03
02-13-10, 07:39 AM
I'm joining you in your disappointment with #2 the CR. That Aft Nav station shouldn't even be there from pictures I've seen. But it is there.
the good thing about the compass with the needle is
you can take a quick look and now immediately where
you are going.
most of them have been repaired in my interiors i think,
have to check it again.
Aanker thanks for the explanation and solution for the Compass Repeater in the engine room. I'll download Vickers' Interiors mod immediately.
Vickers, thanks for fixing it.
Thor, thanks for your reply. But I know how to use the TDC at full realism, and under normal circumstances I'm quite lethal with it at up to quite long ranges using the PK and the XO's helpful course and speed calculations. When a target is alerted and zig-zagging, however, I find that method liable to be a waste of torpedoes as course and speed are changing moment to moment and his estimates become increasingly at odds with what I am seeing right before my eyes. When he says the target is moving at 5 kts at a bearing of 92 deg what he means is that given the targets position at time 1 and the targets new position at time 2, that is what the target's course and speed averages out to over X seconds. Actually, the target I am shooting at is moving across my bow at 9 kts at any given time at a heading that is rapidly going from 0 deg N to 90 deg E over that period of time. If I were to match speed with the target and plot its zig zags, I could use the TDC with PK on to determine the exact right time to fire so that my torpedo intercepts the target along bearing X after Y seconds, but that seems laborious to me. I should be able to turn the PK off and input a serviceable Guestimate as I described below using the Stadimeter. When I am trailing a target 500 yds behind, that should be easy to do, and damn near a sure thing to hit the target. The artificial (gameyfied) function of the Stadimeter is making it rather difficult.
Bubblehead1980
02-13-10, 11:53 AM
As far as stadimeter goes, TMO has a stadimeter fix mod in it that fixed it so range is easy to input manually.Should be able to use it without having a target but why would you? in RL they prob wouldnt just use stadimeter on open ocean with no reference point such as masts of a ship.In stock or mod like RFB the range/bearing dial still needs a fix but can work, just got to learn it.
Yea the compass and the aft stations annoy me, lately i've learned the devs fouled up the Gato/Balao/Gar/Tambor interiors a bit, the ladder should be between the planesmen.LukeFF said some had the ladders moved postwar, but still an F up because SH 4 simulates WAR TIME subs, so boats should be in war time configuarations.
I guess the ID book is a pain , I refuse to use the auto ID most of the time....do it myself.Sure most players would like for it to automatically pan to the proper page though.
The reason I want the option to use the Stadimeter without a a target in the sights is this--in a Fleet Boat in SH4, the Stadimeter is the ONLY WAY to input a BEARING into the Sub's fire control system. I cannot just mouse the TDC dial to any bearing I want. I can manually input Range, Course, and Speed using the Targeting Dials Fix (which I use and am grateful for). Bearing, however, requires that the Stadimeter be used, and the Stadimeter will not pull down unless there is a ship contacting the vertical line bisecting one of the scopes (attack, observation, TBT). In real life, the Bearing would not come from the Scope Lock (which did not exist), it came from a dude standing in front of the guy looking through the periscope reading the bearing from a ring on the periscope itself ("Mark!" Captain says. "Bearing: 350 degrees!" the other dude says.") then the guy at the TDC would dial in the bearing, range, speed, and aob, and start the position keeper. Subsequent observations allowed for corrections and refinements until the Solution was arrived at--ie, all of the elements of the equation agreed with each other very closely. What we have is a regrettably dumbed-down version of the TDC, which automates functions that would have been performed by crew members. The result is a TDC that is wonderful for computing solutions for targets that are moving at a constant speed and heading, but which is absurdly restricted and difficult to use when those functions are constantly changing. I find that the easiest (Ha!) way to snap-shoot a zig-zagging target (given this situation) is to preset my torpedo for a 0 bearing to a target going 0 kts at 0 degrees and then point the whole boat like a big gun and fire at my estimated lead angle--and in order to simply set my torpedo at a gyro angle of 0 degrees (shooting straight ahead) in order to do this, I have to turn my boat until I have a ship contacting the scope\tbt line, then use the Stadimeter to send the bearing. Does this not sound unnecessarily slow, complicated, and labor-intensive to you? I mean, come on.
Bubblehead1980
02-13-10, 01:31 PM
I'm aware how fire control worked in WWII US subs.
In the game, there are two ways to send bearing to TDC.One is the red button atop the range/bearing dial, you point the scope at bearing and click the red button, sends it.Pre set the range using it manually or if targets around, go for stadimeter.Point is you dont have to use the stadimeter, bring the double image down to get range.You have sonar, can estimate.If you play with map contacts on, use the ruler to measure(i dont but you can) Sonar is next and although not good idea if warships are around, on merchants...move dial using HOME and END keys when at sonar station until cursor is on the ships sound, click the send bearing button to the left.Want the range? Use the active sonar once it pings back, send it to TDC also, go to TDC and turn on the position keeper, keeps track of target.
Easy way to hit a zigging target...
When they zig back and forth they are usually moving at 5-6 knots.Variables include if their engines were damaged, may be coasting to a stop so will be losing speed, if seas are heavy etc but generally 5 or 6 knots.Close in at flank speed to short distance say 1200 yards or less, use rudder to keep your bow pointed at the target as you close in, wait until target begins to zig towards you again for middle or target, send bearing and fire.Basically the zigging target will be zigging towards the torpedos and can not turn other way to avoid in time.I've been lucky and nailed zigging ships like this from 2800 yards before, its just knowing when to fire, but best bet is to get close.In RL they often had to fire at zigging targets like this and from some reading i've done, fired same way, as the target zigging towards.As with most solutions, the MOST important part is having target speed correct.I've noticed as long as AOB and range at in the neighborhood or what acutally is, youll hit the target, but if speed is off, good chance youll miss, esp on zigging target.So TDC in game is a bit more flexible and works fine on zigging targets.Remember the TDC was not a super computer, was only as good as the info put in it.The PK kept track of it but if target speed changed, such as in zigging target, had to put in new speed or solution was wrong.AOB will stay fine and range will also be fine, just need to send final bearing when you fire, easy stuff.I've hit large warships zigging at 16, 17 knots same method.
As far as the Rec Manual is concerned, your refusal to compromise is admirable. However, the option to have the Rec Manual open to the proper page has been considered a valuable addition not only by modders such as the GWX team, but also by the guys responsible for U-Boat Missions (whoever they is). If that time and finger-saving device were included purists such as yourself would be entirely free to ignore it, or to find it in the mod folder and remove it entirely from your sight, while people like me, who game in frigid farm houses in VA would be able to play without frantically clicking through the dang book.
And the question remains--has this option been omitted from mods for SH4 on the American side out of preference, or is there something about the American side that precludes it?
Red Button? What Red Button? There's a Red Button? Will return shortly.
I don't have a red button. I have two of them, rather, one which locks the scope, and another which starts the Position Keeper. There is no red button for inputting a Bearing over my Range Bearing Dial. Which now brings me to this: I want the Red Button. I am playing Fall of the Rising Sun right now. Why did they omit my Red Button?
I have the button--it is not Red, it is white, and it works. Now I feel like an idiot. How did I miss that just clicking it would send a bearing? Maybe I clicked it once and it didn't work and I assumed that it would not do it--maybe I never tried it all by itself. Anyway, now that I have The Button, the Stadimeter issue is of no consequence and I feel I have wasted a lot of time, mine and whoever bothers to read all that stuff I wrote.
Thank you, Bubble for your heads-up about the Red Button. Will respond to your other comments in a while--need to play with my Red Button for a while.
Well, I suppose the good thing about being wrong is that you find out what's right. It's very good to know now that just clicking The Red Button inputs a bearing--now, when I have the position keeper going, I can pick specific points on the ship and target them very easily as well as guestimating a quick shot from short range. Thanks again, Bubblehead.
I hate to be the one to bring bad news but I'm pretty sure that Aft Nav station gyro repeater indicator needle/pointer still points the opposite direction desired in Vickers GATO interiors: (TAMBOR, GAR, GATO & BALAO) when ordering a course change unless my install is corrupt - but I 99% doubt that because the main gyro and gyro repeater at the CR helmsman station outer rings are still correct. Ordering 90d (right rudder) makes the Aft Nav gyro needle/pointer swing left.
Although I have played with calibrating the gauges a little different with S3D on my install (the interior CR .sim) I haven't touched the gyroscope's.
Too bad - other than that you won't be sorry that you installed it. The other improvements make it worthwhile.
Art
PS: If I manage to figure anything out in my meager attempts, I'll post or PM the DispVal and RealVal - Min & Max settings.....
vickers03
02-13-10, 03:03 PM
PS: If I manage to figure anything out in my meager attempts, I'll post or PM the DispVal and RealVal - Min & Max settings.....
i know i fixed it in the salmon, if you want to fix the
gato just edit the needle RealVal to min:-180 and
max:180 that's all.
etheberge
02-13-10, 03:06 PM
#1
Playing an American Career, after ID-ing a target, I have to use the mouse to click through the Recognition Manual until I have found the identified ship. Unlike SH3 GWX, and unlike SH4 when playing as a U-Boot, I cannot just click on the ship name in the TDC and have my Rec Manual open to the correct page. There are a lot of ships in that Rec Manual now. All that clicking can actually be painful. If the Manual can't open to the proper page, how about a Keyboard button to flip through the Manual? I'd rather tap than click.
This functionality does exist, at least with OM and TMO, not sure about RFB or vanilla 1.4/1.5.
All you have to do is click on the word "Ship" to the left of the actual ship's name after you ID'ed it. After that when you open the Rec manual it will already be on the correct page.
Believe me, I was pretty happy when I found out about this recently too. Scrolling through all those new ships was getting to be a real pain.
Thanks Aanker for the info--I thought I already had those interiors and that the compass was still wrong...and for once, I was right.
Thanks Vickers, I'll edit the file and fix it and remove a minor realism spoiler from the game.
Etheberg--I'll have to reinstall those mods and check, but I'm sure you're right if you say so. I'm presently playing Fall of the Rising Sun and having checked it, it does not appear to have this functionality. I'm cautious about saying so after my Red Button gaffe. But I just checked and there is no "ship" just "Heavy Cruiser Mogami" which does nothing when you click it, or clicking anywhere all around it. Could have sworn that TMO and OM were exactly the same way. Are you sure you are not talking about the U-Boat missions? I know it works with the German side.
i know i fixed it in the salmon, if you want to fix the
gato just edit the needle RealVal to min:-180 and
max:180 that's all.
I do. Thank you Sir!
Believe it or not I like tedious stuff like figuring out and calibrating gauges.
If you are interested, to get the Compressed Air gauges in the CR to accurately move I changed the Gato interior CR sim (for example) to:
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 200.0
With RealVal 200.0 all of them will accurately display the real amount (if the DispVal calibration for the gauge is correct of course). That's my little contribution to the gauges... lol
Happy Hunting!
Art
I'm pretty new to modding. Which dat file do I find the Needle values under? And under exactly what subheading?
Armistead
02-13-10, 04:52 PM
You may want to load the easy aob mod, both parts. Both wheels work correctly and you can use the full range and function of the stad. One is
TGT AOB TO PK FIX, the other TGT DIALS TO PK FIX. I use other shooting techniques so I seldom use the stad anyway, but I'm sure it's been mentioned you can still send a bearing with the scope anywhere you want by clicking the stad....just as simple as entering it in in SH3.
But load the Easy AOB mod for whatever supermod you use...Once you get a heading, you can leave the PK off and just adjust to the heading. Great for hard AOB shots. And it's not that it's an easy cheat, just makes both wheels turn and work as they should. Should be in the mods section, if you need a link, let me know. It may be included in some mods, not sure if Duc added it to 1.9 or not.
Armistead--thanks for reminding me about the Easy AOB mod. I used to have it. Will have to experiment with it more. Edit--I'm already using the TGT Dials to PK fix which allows for manual input of Mast Height\Range and also to manually input the target's Course\AOB. Is this what you are talking about TGT AOB TO PK FIX or is that something else?
As for the Gyro Compass in the Command Room, I just looked (I think) completely through the Calibrated Gauges Gato Class interiors and all the compass values appear to already be set to min-180 max 180. Is the glitch in the games stock Gato dat files?
vickers03
02-13-10, 05:17 PM
i checked again, as for the gato it's the dial with
the id 0x0940f1ff2ddc75bc and it should be:
dispVal min-180 max180
realVal min180 max-180
Aha! The "old min max reversal so as to confuse and confound" trick.
Gee whiz, Bishop. I love the megamods. I can't play multiplayer anyway since I have a satellite internet connection. Without the megamods I would tire of the game and have to play something else. As for registry entries, I use a free program called CCleaner which keeps my registry squeaky clean. If I have to uninstall something, I use Revo Uninstaller (free) which hunts down and eliminates every trace of said program. If I ever have a problem uninstalling a mod--which used to happen before I started running JSGME and SH4 as an administrator--I have my entire Data file backed up and can be back in business in a few minutes.
i checked again, as for the gato it's the dial with
the id 0x0940f1ff2ddc75bc and it should be:
dispVal min-180 max180
realVal min180 max-180
Done! - thanks again Vickers
.... Without the megamods I would tire of the game and have to play something else ..... I have my entire Data file backed up and can be back in business in a few minutes.
Ditto - I keep a backup Data folder too and have no interest in multiplayer unless/until I get to sink U-boats ..... LMAO
Happy Hunting! - and thanks for starting this topic nodlew.
Art
AVGWarhawk
02-13-10, 09:15 PM
Well, you can look at the ship ID manual in two ways. The first way was done by flipping through the pages in hopes of getting something remotely close to what you see in your scope. Second is clicking SHIP and the page automatically opens to the ship. Is the second a time saver? Sure. Does it add a bit of reality and perhaps some uncertainty of what the target is? No. I would prefer to flip the page and hope I select the correct vessel. :up:
Armistead
02-13-10, 09:41 PM
In reality they seldom figured out the ship until after they sunk it, unless it was just obvious.
etheberge
02-14-10, 12:23 AM
Etheberg--I'll have to reinstall those mods and check, but I'm sure you're right if you say so. I'm presently playing Fall of the Rising Sun and having checked it, it does not appear to have this functionality. I'm cautious about saying so after my Red Button gaffe. But I just checked and there is no "ship" just "Heavy Cruiser Mogami" which does nothing when you click it, or clicking anywhere all around it. Could have sworn that TMO and OM were exactly the same way. Are you sure you are not talking about the U-Boat missions? I know it works with the German side.
Ooops, you're right nodlew, that was only for OM. I posted from memory and I could have sworn TMO worked the same way as OM but I doesn't. I just loaded it up to check. My bad.
Now I'm pretty bummed out, I had gotten used to it in OM and I just switched back to US campaign yesterday. Oh well.
Clicking through 700 merchant ships is a pain in the ass. That's my story, and I am sticking with it.
Clicking through 700 merchant ships is a pain in the ass. That's my story, and I am sticking with it.
700? Just a bit of an exaggeration. ;)
That aft gyro-repeater compass box looked to me like it was designed to be an engine telegraph box (because it matches the other box to the left with the same knob) plus there is 1 other gyro-repeater compass by the helmsman CR station - plus the gyroscope in the CR so I just got rid of it on my install and with much help moved it to the right, changed it to a telegraph and put a knot-meter in the middle instead, but that idea went over like a lead balloon. I'd like to see somebody gut that whole station someday. At least Vickers made things look and work better however it is still devoid of reality.. lol.
I've modified it in RFB to mimic the helmsman's CR station, though I wholeheartedly agree it shouldn't be there at all. One of these days it'll get fixed.
One exaggerates not to mislead, but to enlighten.
I have still not been able to fix the compass. Like I said, I'm new to modding. This stuff is only starting to make sense. I've been trying to fix it in the Porpoise. Using Silent 3ditor I have picked through the Porpoise_CT.sim file. I have found 4 Gyro Compasses, but so far, changing the Display Value of any of them to min180 max-180 has not fixed the Command Room compass. Am I still looking in the wrong file?
Found the relevant setting is the Porpoise CR.sim file, Dial Index #79. Edited the Display Value to min-180 max180 and the Real Value to min180 max-180 and now the Aft Gyro Compass points true. Now all I have to do is get the Diesel Engine Telegraph to stop behaving like a Rudder, and get the compass at the Helm to work and I have fixed my Porpoise. I think.
I have still not been able to fix the compass. Like I said, I'm new to modding. This stuff is only starting to make sense. I've been trying to fix it in the Porpoise. Using Silent 3ditor I have picked through the Porpoise_CT.sim file. I have found 4 Gyro Compasses, but so far, changing the Display Value of any of them to min180 max-180 has not fixed the Command Room compass. Am I still looking in the wrong file?
\Data\Interior\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato_CR.sim
I haven't looked at the P-class yet, I'm still in the Gato interiors but in Vickers Gato CR sim it is #96 / #97 for the Aft Nav station gyrocompass:
DispVal Min -180.0 Max 180.0
RealVal Min 180.0 Max -180
- - - - - - - - - -
The clock is right above it if that helps:
#91 ClockHour - Aft Nav station
----------
#93 Clockminute - Aft Nav station
----------
#95 Batteries - Aft Nav station
DispVal Min -134.0 Max 134.0
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 1.0
--------------------------------------------------
#97 Gyrocompass - Aft Nav station
DispVal Min -180.0 Max 180.0
RealVal Min 180.0 Max -180
- - - - - - - - - -
--------------------------------------------------
Hope that helps
Art
I've modified it in RFB to mimic the helmsman's CR station, though I wholeheartedly agree it shouldn't be there at all. One of these days it'll get fixed.
Thanks LukeFF!
Art
Thanks for your response, Aanker. As is customary with my luck, your help arrives the instant I have solved the problem in my plodding, determined way. I'm sure the extra info will come in handy though.
#1 Porpoise Aft Gyro Compass
Fixed the relevant setting in the SH4\Data\Interior\NSS_Porpoise\ NSS_Porpoise CR.sim file, Dial Index #79. Edited the Display Value to min-180 max180 and the Real Value to min180 max-180 and now the Aft Gyro Compass points true.
#2 Porpoise Helm Knotmeter
Edited same CR.sim file as above Dial Index #35. Dial Type-Speed
Changed Real Val Maximum from 46.3, which was too slow, to Real Val Maximum 12.3*, which after trials appears to be very close to correct. May need final anal adjustment.
*Changed value to 12.8611 to agree with value found in Porpoise_CT.sim file. Reads accurately now.*
*Then again the stock value seems to lag about half a knot. Maybe my value was better.
#3 Fixed Aft Starboard Engine Telegraph
Found correct values in Porpoise_CT.sim file at Dial Index #15. Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Dial Index #89 to be exactly the same. Changed dial Type from Rudder to ThrottleStarb. Changed DisplayVal to min225 max165. Changed RealVal to min 0.0 max 10.0. Changed Command from nothing to Command=Set Telegraph.
3A Fixed Aft Port Engine Telegraph
Made same edits as above to Index #85 with the following difference--Type was changed to ThrottlePort
#4 Fixed Aft Depth Meters Values taken from meters that work.
Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Index #87 to fix Shallow Depth Meter. Changed DisplayVal to Min-134.0 Max 137.0. Changed RealVal to Min 4.572 Max 50.292. Changed Command from Nothing to Command=Set Depth.
Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Index #91 to fix Deep Depth Meter. Changed DisplayVal to min-162.5 Max162.5. Changed
RealVal to Min 0 Max 137.16. Changed command to Command=Set Depth.
#5 Fixed Compressed Air Gauge
Edited Index #65. Changed Dial Type to ComprAir. Changed DisplayVal to Min-150 Max 150. Changed RealVal to Min 0.0 Max 200.0.
Gauge now reads at 100%. However, sitting in place with engines all stop and sinking to 300 ft, then rising back to the surface produces no depletion of compressed air--neither on the Gauge edited, nor on my Taskbar Gui Compressed Air meter. Realism is set to 100%.
?
Apparently compressed air goes a lot further than I thought. Was able to sit still and drop to 300 ft then rise back to 50 ft over and over before the Gauge droped at all. Compressed air did drop though, and the Gauge read accurately.
AVGWarhawk
02-14-10, 09:09 PM
Clicking through 700 merchant ships is a pain in the ass. That's my story, and I am sticking with it.
I'm glad the men who crewed these submarines did not mind flipping through the book and found it to be a pain in the ass. :03: :O:
Fixes Accomplished .....
Cool - you had me searching for some other "thing" that had a value close to your reported 40 or whatever that was .... lol. Glad you got it fixed.
Here's a new one:
I've sailed through the Panama canal (eastbound) trying to do the World Tour again with 1.5 (I did it successfully before with 1.3 or 1.4) and after saving - this is the funny part - close to or in "da Bermuda Triangle" - because that is about as far as I get in one session - and reloading the save to continue, all of the indicator needles and pointers in the submarine are pointing to the 12:00 position. I've tried this four times now and every time it is the same! Tried new career and it doesn't matter. 000T
The HUD looks & works fine, the sub operates as it should; it dives, surfaces, stops, moves etc. and I realize this problem has nothing to do with "da Bermuda Triangle".... (that was a joke).
Maybe it is because I'm saving a Pacific boat from Pearl in the Atlantic ??? Everything is fine until I save - after reloading the save then the dials are all frozen and pointing 000, up, 12:00.... take your pick.
I don't think it has anything to do with Vickers mod but I'll try firing up un-modded stock (if I remember how to operate the controls) and see what happens. Looks like checking unlimited fuel and around the horn for this test too just to be sure.
Anyone else experienced this?
Happy Hunting!
Art
I bet they found it to be a huge pain in the ass and bitched and moaned about it the whole time they were at sea. Perhaps they dreamed of a day when technology would exist that would expedite the process of ship identification. A bright, shining tomorrow when the mere click of a button would bring the target ship's info before their eyes without the grueling work of poring through heavy, dusty volumes full of many wrong ships and only one right one.
Edit--In fact after further research I have discovered that it is a little known fact that the various ship recognition manuals were in fact the single greatest strain on American morale. I refer you to the memoir of one Dwight "Stop Whistling" Needermeyer. "The American Fleet Boat at Sea: What the hell kinda ship is that? How the American Submarine Force Decimated the Japanese without knowing what we were shooting at." One of many passages related to the deficiencies of the manual system is given below.
"No, of course not. We didn't mind any sort of deprivation. We were at war in a tiny metal cork bobbing around on the Pacific Ocean. We were fully aware of our situation and prepared to make the best of things. It was the, pardon me, damn ship recognition manuals. We spent weeks, sometimes months at sea without seeing anything at all. Then, when, miracle of miracles, a ship came in sight flying a Jap flag we could only feel excitement for a brief moment because then we had to break out the recognition manuals. All of them. Every spare crew member was put in charge of his own manual. They were all over the place, paging through those things like mad. Stumpy Gibson, in fact, did go mad and had to be marooned off of Java. As we sailed away, the sight was pathetic. Stumpy was laughing maniacally pointing at our sub and misidentifying it over and over again. Anyway. Most of the time we got it wrong. We damaged what we identified as a Nippon Maru in the Celebes sea--later intelligence confirmed that we had torpedoed the Hiryu. It's hard to be triumphant and painfully embarrassed at the same time, but I tell ya buddy, we managed it."
So there you have it. Presented for your consideration.
Strange Aanker. Perhaps we are asking the game to do things the Designers lacked the imagination, or foresight, or perhaps just the time and inclination to anticipate. I have become convinced that whoever was in charge of tweaking the boats was doing it late at night while drunk in-between episodes of Gilligan's Island. Jesus. Everything is messed up. Nothing works. Engine Telegraphs are wired to the Rudder and the Compressed Air Gauge responds to the Throttle. I'm surprised I don't have to fire my torpedoes using the Gramaphone.
If I ever finish fixing the Porpoise, I guess I'll present it for the downloads section as my first mod contribution. I'm a long way from that though. I've fixed most of the obvious things--that whole back wall now works correctly. I'm having a hard time finding the right Index# to fix the compass at the Helm, which does nothing so it's not possible to watch what it does and determine which wrong thing it's being called. There are a million throttles with wrong values, probably one of those. At the Dive Control station there are four gauges, two to the left and two to the right which have messed up textures--apparently the textures weren't sized properly for the dials. I'll need to fix that. Looking at Vickers' Gato, he made them battery charge indicators, which, given the detail of that mod, I'm sure is correct. Maybe I could borrow his textures? Or resize the textures that are there, assuming they are the right ones. Not a sure thing by any means. None of the trim gauges do anything but occasionally flip around in concert, which looks deceptively impressive. Vickers mod seems have them all working. Doing what, I don't know. And would the values for each of them be different for the Porpose? Probably. Anyway. Something to do. Something to learn. Pushing me into deeper areas of modding--editing .dds files etc.
vickers03
02-15-10, 06:37 PM
If I ever finish fixing the Porpoise, I guess I'll present it for the downloads section as my first mod contribution. I'm a long way from that though. I've fixed most of the obvious things--that whole back wall now works correctly.
i thought ducimus (and i) fixed most of these things already in our porpoise overhaul?:hmmm: do you play TMO?:06:
Oh. Fixed already.
I play TMO and love TMO. Also OM (especially for the U-Boot side) and RFB for 1.5. But right now I am playing Fall of the Rising Sun--the 1.5 version. And they have not fixed the Porpoise yet.
I'll just take the Porpoise from TMO and make it a separate mod and JSGME it into FOTRS then.
Thanks Vickers, saved me from wasting more time fixing something already fixed.
Learned some stuff though.
Edit--Good thing I did too. After a cursory examination, there are still some fixes necessary to the Overhauled Porpoise. Gotta fix the Aft Compass, no prob, expected that. But beyond that neither the knotmeter in the Command Room nor the Control Tower works. Scottie, expedite repairs to the knotmeters. We expect contact with the Kling...uh, Japs any day now. Also, the engine RPM dials in the Control Tower, and I'm pretty sure the Control Room as well, don't work. And the Trim dials don't seem to have been tweaked either. Bummer. Glad you got rid of the Helm station. Now I don't have to fix the "compass in a barrel"*, which I have yet to find.
*Still there, just moved, still doesn't work.
Compressed air gauges now go up to 500, apparently not indicating %. Aft one was behaving like a Depth meter--trying to figure out the values, different for different gauges of the same type.
Not sure why the knotmeters don't work.* Maybe wrong index #.
*They do work, except this Porpoise is somehow incompatible with FOTRS. Everytime I order a speed, the Helm says "Cannot Comply".
Well, at least the Aft Compass works now.
Ok. I had included the Submarine folder from TMO in my Porpoise Overhauled mod folder--which caused a conflict. I deleted that and only included the Data\Interiors\Porpoise folder from TMO and now just about everything works. RPM, Knotmeters, etc.
........ *Still there, just moved, still doesn't work.
Compressed air gauges now go up to 500, apparently not indicating %. Aft one was behaving like a Depth meter--trying to figure out the values, different for different gauges of the same type...........
Re-inventing the wheel? - I'm a newbie but I'll help you. "Thank you for learning Japanese with me today" - sorry (one of those you had to be there things)
There are 3 dial faces commonly used with Compressed Air:
CompAir - (the 500 face)
DispVal Min -150.0 Max 150.0
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 200.0
Another texture (the 3000 face)
DispVal Min -134.0 Max 134.0
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 200.0
Another texture (the 4000 face) - the real Compressed air gauges that run down the stbd side (the smaller gauges):
DispVal Min -120.0 Max 120.0
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 200.0
With all of them the important thing is the RealVal setting should be Max 200.0 to display properly.
On my install I am using the nine smaller sized 4000 gauges on the stbd side for compressed air. I think they represent the real compressed air gauges. I am using the larger sized 4000 gauges for something else, and the gauges with the face, "AUX BALLAST No 1", "AUX BALLAST No 2" etc for something else.
Hope this helps. I have "drawers full" of screen shots of gauges and text files with gauges labeled by number .... lol ...... arrgh!
-------------
Another topic - is to comment that with stock, after sailing around the horn and into the Atlantic everything is fine - the gauges do not freeze at 12:00 as described in my post above. Also, the freeze has nothing to do with Vickers interiors. Wonder what is causing it? The F3 map/chart?
Anyway, "Thank you for learning Japanese with me today"
Happy Hunting!
Art
Appreciate it dude. This thread is rapidly becoming a reference for tweaking .sim files. It is for me anyway. I have tested the min-150 max150 value with max realval 200 and that appears to be right on the money. I've seen other values like -154 etc max realval 1 (?) that don't work as well, or not at all.
So that's what that 4000 dial is. Good to know.
Fixing the Porpoise from TMO right now. Got the Aft Compass, the Aft CompAir Gauge, and the Dive Control CompAir gauge working. The Helm Station Compass--the most Compassy Compass on the whole boat, the one at the HELM for Christ's sake, still doesn't work. It's in there somewhere identified as a throttle or as a trim.
.....So that's what that 4000 dial is. Good to know.
Fixing the Porpoise from TMO right now. Got the Aft Compass, the Aft CompAir Gauge, and the Dive Control CompAir gauge working. The Helm Station Compass--the most Compassy Compass on the whole boat, the one at the HELM for Christ's sake, still doesn't work. It's in there somewhere identified as a throttle or as a trim.
As far as what the real life compressed air gauges look like that is a different story. The 4000 gauges just happen to be used as a texture in that location. I don't have a good UV mapper program for things like this.
I look at this whole thing like it is a 'representation' of this and that.
You're right, there is no gyro for the helmsman in the P-class is there. What I do with unknown gauges is set one at -45 45, another at -65 65, -90 90, -120 120, etc then go in the CR and take screenshots, then write down the gauges in a txt file. Repeat with the next set. Finally by process of eliminatgion you'll find out which # belongs to the poor helmsman. There is probably an easier way with just a couple of clicks in S3D in the dat (??) - but that's what I do. Then, after they're all mapped out I calibrate them.
Art
PS: when you find out please let me know
I'm stuck on this Atlantic gauge freeze at 12:00 problem - who said there was global warming?
I'll use your system, thanks for the information. Do you mean you take screenshots in game or screenshots of the CR.sim file? I mean, the method is to identify the gauge by finding the one which mirrors the values you edited in the .sim file, right?
There is probably an easier way with just a couple of clicks in S3D in the dat (??)I don't think there is any easy way to search for something which is being called something it is not. It is almost as if this game was released with the thinking that the casual gamer would not care and probably not notice all of the quirks and roughness--and serious gamers would "finish" the game themselves. I mean, the stuff is all there, it just hasn't been attended to.
Goes to show you how far Modding has come. Game developers make games (or fail to) that lend themselves to modding. Now game developers release games and depend on modders to polish them.
Oh, and let me say, before I forget, the TMO Porpoise is vastly superior to the stock one. Very nice work, Vickers and Ducimus. Just a few things to tidy up.
I'll use your system, thanks for the information. Do you mean you take screenshots in game or screenshots of the CR.sim file? I mean, the method is to identify the gauge by finding the one which mirrors the values you edited in the .sim file, right?
Screenshots in-game of the gauges at various angles to figure out which is which to produce a reference graphic to work from like this:
Gato gauges:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/SH4Img_031s.jpg
This way it works both ways. I can tell for example that in the sim #133 stock (Vickers #139) is using the AUX BALLAST No 1 texture on the dial face.
Art
PS: Today I'm going to figure out what mod is making the Pacific Gato gauges point 000T after reaching the Atlantic.
Got it. The screenshot makes the system very clear.
Good luck with the Bermuda Triangle. If we never hear from you again, we will assume you are on the Mothership somewhere.
And one more thing about the Stadimeter and not being able to use it without a target in the crosshair. When a target is silhouetted by fog, although it is visible and usually quite close, no Lock is possible and the Stadimeter will not function. If the Stadimeter could be used without the target in the crosshairs, one could ID the ship by its outline, enter the mast height, and range the ship.
Good luck with the Bermuda Triangle. If we never hear from you again, we will assume you are on the Mothership somewhere.
I'm not superstitious however someone put the Flying Dutchman in the Panama Canal and sighting him is supposed to be bad luck isn't it? - PLUS the Bermuda triangle thing! (but I'm not superstitious - Really!! ;-)
After disabling a whole lot of mods I made it through with all gauges working perfectly in the Atlantic..
I've narrowed it down to a file in \campaign, \terrain, or the \UPC folder in a particular 'modified' mod - he, he, I'll figure out what file next.
Happy Hunting!
Art
Lemme know about that gyroscope when you figure that one out.......
It might be a little while before I get back to tweaking the Porpoise. Everything BUT the helm compass works now. And I've been side-tracked by this mission I'm making to recreate Operation Ten-Go. Might get deeply into mission designing.
Ducimus
02-18-10, 10:23 PM
Referring to the original post:
#1:
I noticed that first thing when SH4 was first released. I believe this is a function of the 1024_768_menu.ini file. Im not sure if its possible to get this to work in fleetboats, but the ini file would be a good place to start. This functionality is a stock SH3 function. It was not created by mod in SH3. There's acutally a few small click commands people are unaware of in SH3. Right clicking on the officer icons was one example of that as i recall.
#2
I won't be surpised if there are some compases off. I tried to fix the ones i thought were broken, but maybe i messed up. Nobody's perfect. As to some of the dials and gauges being off as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, i knew that. Many repeaters over the "navigation table" are of the wrong type AND they were broken. (kind of a double whammy) I don't have the 3d modeling expertise to change the type, but i figured id try to at least make them functional. I did what i could, and made the best of what i had to work with.
#3
I can't help you here.
Appreciate it Ducimus.
#1
Yeah, I figured it had to be left out of the stock game. I thought it was something that was "turned on" by mods though.
#2
Fixed it--except for the one at the Helm. Gonna fix that when I get back to looking for it.
#3
Probably another stock difference between Fleet Boats and U-Boats, although in stock 1.5 the U-Boats require the "lock" and in the KUI mod, they don't.
I'm a long way from being able to fix 1 and 3 myself. Although as a result of this thread I've learned mountains about how to mod the game.
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