Getting to know your crew [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Nisgeis

02-06-10, 12:51 PM

In SH3, you had the same chaps on your bar and you could recognise them at a glance. With SH4, it was random people and depended on who was on that particular watch at the time, so you never really got to 'know' your crew. With SH5, it looks like you will be able to wander the boat and promote/train your crew for certain skills. OK, it's got skill points, which some see as a bit RPG character setup, but it's quite a nice way to do it rather than through a 2D screen and it's also not 100 nautical miles from renown, which is hardware upgrade points.

The game seems to be going out of its way to allow you to interact with the crew more and get to know them better than before, so they actually feel like your crew and not just some icons. You can even by the looks of it go to the hardware guy and ask him what the latest kit is and get him to install it (for a renown cost of course.

With 3D flooding and interactivity, it should make for a better DC experience. So, will this increase the sense of immersion for you?

IanC

02-06-10, 01:01 PM

Getting to know your crew (name, face, background etc...) will definitely add to immersion. You should get a better sense of 'bonding' in SH5, with both crew and the actual boat, than other SH titles. We'll have to see if anybody sheds a tear if one of them dies. :hmmm:

mookiemookie

02-06-10, 01:07 PM

I'm looking forward to what the community can do in terms of altering the crewmembers appearance - the devs said that this would be possible. I'll laugh when I see the first "Das Boot Crew" mod. :)

ReFaN

02-06-10, 01:16 PM

I'm looking forward to what the community can do in terms of altering the crewmembers appearance - the devs said that this would be possible. I'll laugh when I see the first "Das Boot Crew" mod. :)

i Agree with you completely, cant wait ;)

26 days left :)

Hartmann

02-06-10, 01:35 PM

Mod an tuned down the superpowers.

the ubi page don´t show now the superpowers, but sure that still stay there

Kapitanleutnant

02-06-10, 02:29 PM

With 3D flooding and interactivity, it should make for a better DC experience.
This is basically the only positive improvement to the game in my opinion. It's also something that we know absolutely nothing about yet. We've seen no depth charge attack and no crew animations except some really poor stuff in the latest UbiTV preview.

I would think that since Ubi have evidently sacrificed so much of the simulation to put these things in they would be eager to show them off, but so far we've seen zilch.

Chad

02-06-10, 02:35 PM

Das Boot crew mod would be awesome :yeah:

Letum

02-06-10, 02:48 PM

Human (AI) interaction in computer games these days hasn't advanced much
beyond the days of the interactive novel. you select some options and
get a predictable out come. It's a little like interacting with an automatic
call center.

That is not to say that it can't add a lot to a game; it can, but immersion
isn't one of the things it adds.
Immersion happens when you stop being fully aware that your in the
game and just feel like you are 'there'. That isn't going to happen with
a dialogue menu in front of you.

IanC

02-06-10, 02:54 PM

<snip>
That is not to say that it can't add a lot to a game; it can, but immersion
isn't one of the things it adds.
Immersion happens when you stop being fully aware that your in the
game and just feel like you are 'there'. That isn't going to happen with
a dialogue menu in front of you.

But we all played many RPG's that made us feel like we were there. You need a little help from your imagination sure, a little effort to put yourself 'there' but it's like with everything else. Heck, reading a book is nothing but a big dialogue menu no?

Letum

02-06-10, 04:39 PM

But we all played many RPG's that made us feel like we were there. You need a little help from your imagination sure, a little effort to put yourself 'there' but it's like with everything else. Heck, reading a book is nothing but a big dialogue menu no?

A better analogy might be a book written from the point of view of
someone who keeps having menus pop up when he talks to anyone.

It may no be impossible to imagine you are that person, but the menus
don't make it easier to be that person.

Don't get me wrong, I do think dialogue menus have a place in many
games, subsims included. They are a useful device and you can get
high levels of immersion in a game that has them. They just don't
add to the natural feeling of being a person.

ryanglavin

02-06-10, 05:54 PM

I have a feeling I'll be one of those people that cries when "little Johann" gets his brains blown out by a kingfisher. (Sadly, thats happened to me in 1939 in SH 3... bit hilarious)

IanC

02-06-10, 06:09 PM

It may no be impossible to imagine you are that person, but the menus
don't make it easier to be that person.

I hear ya. Maybe there can be a more natural/immersive way to communicate with NPC's... :hmmm:

THE_MASK

02-06-10, 06:09 PM

Why is it that in so many games you have a little program to change facial features of people yet sh3/4 never had one ? Maybe we will get something like this in sh5 .

Kapitanleutnant

02-06-10, 06:14 PM

I have a feeling I'll be one of those people that cries when "little Johann" gets his brains blown out by a kingfisher.

This assumes that the crew can be killed, which I'm seriously starting to doubt.
The devs have said that each crew member has their own little plot to follow - the crew are also visually distinct from one another. What happens if one of them is killed halfway through his "plot"? Obviously that may not be a big deal, but who replaces him? Have the devs created 20 unique "backup" models to replace dead crew? I doubt it. I doubt even more that they've created 20 backup plots.
This leaves the possibility that ubi's flagship "innovation" for the game - the interactive crew - could be missed by any player unlucky enough to get his watch crew shot to death on Patrol 1. You think they'll let that happen?

I'm calling it now - it'll be impossible for any crew to die in SH5 unless the entire boat is sunk.

THE_MASK

02-06-10, 06:21 PM

This assumes that the crew can be killed, which I'm seriously starting to doubt.
The devs have said that each crew member has their own little plot to follow - the crew are also visually distinct from one another. What happens if one of them is killed halfway through his "plot"? Obviously that may not be a big deal, but who replaces him? Have the devs created 20 unique "backup" models to replace dead crew? I doubt it. I doubt even more that they've created 20 backup plots.
This leaves the possibility that ubi's flagship "innovation" for the game - the interactive crew - could be missed by any player unlucky enough to get his watch crew shot to death on Patrol 1. You think they'll let that happen?

I'm calling it now - it'll be impossible for any crew to die in SH5 unless the entire boat is sunk.
In australia its classified as PG
Consumer Advice
Mild violence and coarse language; Gaming experience may change online
Category
Computer Games
I dont think death scenes are allowed under this classification .

IanC

02-06-10, 06:24 PM

I'm calling it now - it'll be impossible for any crew to die in SH5 unless the entire boat is sunk.

Yeah unfortunately that sounds more likely.

Letum

02-06-10, 06:28 PM

I hear ya. Maybe there can be a more natural/immersive way to communicate with NPC's... :hmmm:
There have been attempts in the past. (LINK (http://www.interactivestory.net/))
However, they do not work much better and I doubt anything will cut the mustard for a long time.

At least dialogue menus are intuitive and that helps, even if they little resemble real human communication.

Platapus

02-06-10, 07:30 PM

I'm calling it now - it'll be impossible for any crew to die in SH5 unless the entire boat is sunk.

Bah! Evidently you have not heard of a Resurrection spell. :nope:

In SH5, when one of your crew members dies, you need to find a level 9 cleric..uh.. I mean medic. You may have to complete some quests.. uh I mean special patrols first. In any case, the Resurrection spell. damn it! I mean, medical care will cost you 10,000 renown points.

Dead crewman is resurrected with full hit points but will suffer a 15% experience point penalty.

Of course you will have to give back all his equipment you looted from his dead body.

Nisgeis

02-06-10, 07:33 PM

Bah! Evidently you have not heard of a Resurrection spell. :nope:

In SH5, when one of your crew members dies, you need to find a level 9 cleric..uh.. I mean medic. You may have to complete some quests.. uh I mean special patrols first. In any case, the Resurrection spell. damn it! I mean, medical care will cost you 10,000 renown points.

Dead crewman is resurrected with full hit points but will suffer a 15% experience point penalty.

Of course you will have to give back all his equipment you looted from his dead body.

That's a 'No, it won't add to immersion' for you then?

Why would crew skills cost you renown though? It did seem a seperate points system. What evidence do you have for it being a tonnage system? It did seem as though there were two seperate points systems, crew and hardward upgrades.

This concept of 'upgrade points' though - it's no different to SH3's renown. That's in place now and people play it. The more tonnage you sink, the more renown you get, enabling you to get better EQ. That makes sense. The better a commander you were, the more influence you'd have on getting the best EQ. In what way was SH3 an RPG Epic Fail though? All this criticism... did people hate SH3's renown system that much? Or is it just cool to bash something different in SH5?

EDIT: You even buy more experienced crew with renown.. so what's actually different?

HundertzehnGustav

02-06-10, 08:04 PM

Huuh? who still uses SHIII renown?

iirc, the Submarines were fitted with the latest equipment independantly if the Commander was good or bad. They didnt waste time and store quad Flakguns or Alberich coats, just waiting for a "worthy" commander - they put their homing torpedoes to work as soon aqs they could get their hands on them.

That being said, the "renown" system of stock shIII was ridiculous, and i have never used it since the early supermod days. And even those overhauled the renown system, completely.

Nisgeis, you didnt catch Platapus' drift i think. His other SIM must be some WoW or sumptingk...;)

oscar19681

02-06-10, 09:57 PM

frau kaleun

02-06-10, 10:01 PM

Das Boot crew mod would be awesome :yeah:

Yeah, except I for one would definitely be shedding tears if any of them died. Especially since it would probably be my fault!

On the other hand that might make me less likely to cruise into Scapa Flow and start firing torpedos at destroyers. :O:

Highbury

02-06-10, 10:14 PM

Yeah, except I for one would definitely be shedding tears if any of them died. Especially since it would probably be my fault!

On the other hand that might make me less likely to cruise into Scapa Flow and start firing torpedos at destroyers. :O:

I was hoping we would finally get AI and harbor defenses that would reduce that likelyhood for you... even if you hated the crew...

..but the video of the U-Boat taking pot-shots at DD's while they are pinging him, and stationary, does not fill me with hope...

frau kaleun

02-06-10, 10:15 PM

I was hoping we would finally get AI and harbor defenses that would reduce that likelyhood for you...

Hmm... didn't seem to be anything lacking in the harbor defenses after that first destroyer went down. They were on me like white on rice. :O:

IanC

02-06-10, 10:48 PM

There have been attempts in the past. (LINK (http://www.interactivestory.net/))

Interesting...

CaptainNemo12

02-06-10, 11:51 PM

Perhaps someone will make a SH5 Speech Recognition mod in the future?:hmmm:

Sailor Steve

02-07-10, 05:38 PM

Huuh? who still uses SHIII renown?

iirc, the Submarines were fitted with the latest equipment independantly if the Commander was good or bad. They didnt waste time and store quad Flakguns or Alberich coats, just waiting for a "worthy" commander - they put their homing torpedoes to work as soon aqs they could get their hands on them.

That being said, the "renown" system of stock shIII was ridiculous, and i have never used it since the early supermod days. And even those overhauled the renown system, completely.
You have it backwards. No, they didn't hold stuff waiting for a worthy commander, but when something new was delivered and there was only one, do you think they installed it on whichever boat was in port? No, it went to the guy who they knew they could trust - the commander with a proven track record.

I think SH3's renown system works quite well.

Jimbuna

02-09-10, 07:06 AM

Rosencrantz

02-09-10, 07:18 AM

Sailor Steve wrote:

You have it backwards. No, they didn't hold stuff waiting for a worthy commander, but when something new was delivered and there was only one, do you think they installed it on whichever boat was in port? No, it went to the guy who they knew they could trust - the commander with a proven track record.

This is very true, I think. Especially later, let's say at least from 1944 onwards, when Germans had huge problems to get latest equipment out of factories and to the troops. Snorchel is one one good example of that.

-RC-

Hartmann

02-09-10, 08:37 AM

This assumes that the crew can be killed, which I'm seriously starting to doubt.
The devs have said that each crew member has their own little plot to follow - the crew are also visually distinct from one another. What happens if one of them is killed halfway through his "plot"? Obviously that may not be a big deal, but who replaces him? Have the devs created 20 unique "backup" models to replace dead crew? I doubt it. I doubt even more that they've created 20 backup plots.
This leaves the possibility that ubi's flagship "innovation" for the game - the interactive crew - could be missed by any player unlucky enough to get his watch crew shot to death on Patrol 1. You think they'll let that happen?

I'm calling it now - it'll be impossible for any crew to die in SH5 unless the entire boat is sunk.

scary words :88)

it means an scripted plot for the crew ? it´s included in the plot missions in the campaign ?

i think that this elements could be cool for some people the firsts times but very low replay value, the same words and history again and again like in another 3d arcade games :down: