SH5 online DRM and Modding tools

[Captain von Keldunk]

I have SH3 with starforce istalled, if use SH3 mission editor
I need SH3 DVD-rom in drive. IF it is same with SH5,then you have to be
online to use SH5 mission editor and save your work to online servers.
Maybe same thing goes for other SH5 tools too. So how you share your work then?. When UBI designed this online DRM do you think they thought about
modding at all?:hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

Good question. :up:

[karamazovnew]

Why does everyone think that the mods will be on the server?! The server only authenticates you and keeps your save files. Here's an example, I had 8GB of mods on top of my WoW install... the game still worked fine. I see absolutely no reason for OSP to limit modding in ANY way. Even SH Commander would work if Ubi gives the save files on your drive priority over theirs. The devs already said that the save files will be kept on the servers AND on your pc.

[bigboywooly]

Why does everyone think that the mods will be on the server?! The server only authenticates you and keeps your save files. Here's an example, I had 8GB of mods on top of my WoW install... the game still worked fine. I see absolutely no reason for OSP to limit modding in ANY way. Even SH Commander would work if Ubi gives the save files on your drive priority over theirs. The devs already said that the save files will be kept on the servers AND on your pc.

They did
They also said you can use any PC you like - if game installed - to play as your saves are on their server
So does that mean its the server save it uses :06:
Or do you get a choice

Doubt that any work you do will be saved anywhere but your own PC but the question of do you have to be online to use the ME is a good one

And OSP will limit modding in some way
If you mod then you know the worst part is starting and restarting the game over and over - sometimes playing for only a minute to check something
Add connecting each time into that so yes it will make a difference
How much ?
Who knows

Thats the trouble with ubi's lack of information
Everyone is guessing

[karamazovnew]

We'll probably have a choice of which save files to use. And all I said was that OSP will not PREVENT you from making and using mods. As for the slower time to load, I really don't think it will make much of a difference. You'll still need to be online though... :wah:

[bigboywooly]

We'll probably have a choice of which save files to use. And all I said was that OSP will not PREVENT you from making and using mods. As for the slower time to load, I really don't think it will make much of a difference. You'll still need to be online though... :wah:

I dont think anyone has ever said you wont be able to mod - esp as there will allegedly be mod tools on release - what those who do mod have said is that it may not be worth modding

The point I made above about constant starts to check something
Will updates/patches stream or be available for DL
Connection issues

Just 3 of the issues that can make you think is it worth bothering
Modding takes time
A lot of time in most cases
Anything that cuts down that time can make it a non starter

[Randomizer]

Ok, here is a question that is not intended to start a war but I have limited knowledge of the modding process and am genuinely curious.

Do not personal domains like Facebook et al come to own the copyright on all information posted on their sites?

It is my understanding that OSP will save all files at UBISoft. Will this give them copyright ownership of any mods created by the Modding Community? If so does this open the door to UBISoft incorporating freeware mods into a future pay-for add-on without renumeration for the Modder(s)?

OSP is supposed to be about protecting content so I would suggest reading the EULA real close before modding anything to ensure that your ideas do not become property of UBISoft.

If a modded file is saved on their server, do they own it? I doubt that you would since it's not exclusively on your machine.

This idea may be wind and smoke but I can also see it as potential method to get some very highly skilled modders to provide UBISoft with creative content - for free.

Hope I'm wrong.

[razark]

It is my understanding that OSP will save all files at UBISoft.

I've only ever seen Ubi claim that save game files will be saved. Not anything else.

Does it make sense for mods to be stored on Ubi servers? You're buying a disc with the game. You load the game on your computer. You load mods on your computer. You start the game, and it downloads the save file you had created earlier. When you save, it writes the save game file to your computer, and uploads that save game file to the Ubi server.

To run the game, the program will make a call to the server, ask "Hey, is this guy authorized to run the game?" The server will say "Sure, go ahead." Every so often, the game will call up the server, and the server will respond.

Now, if you were downloading the game and then saving the entire game back to the server when done, I can see how that would be a problem for modding.

Besides that, the storage space that Ubi will need for save games is a lot lower than the storage space they would need if they saved everyone's copy of the game on their servers.

[Randomizer]

I've only ever seen Ubi claim that save game files will be saved. Not anything else.

Apperantly not, from an article at the VE website.

One very interesting benefit of this new account management system is how it handles save games. Your saves will be stored remotely on Ubi servers, allowing access to your game saves on any machine.

Question remains, if they save it do they own it?

[mookiemookie]

All game files are not on the Ubisoft servers. The game will create a local file when you save your game. That file will then be synchronized with your save files on the Ubi server. This will not affect modding.

[Letum]

All game files are not on the Ubisoft servers. The game will create a local file when you save your game. That file will then be synchronized with your save files on the Ubi server. This will not affect modding.

...apart, presumably, from preventing programs from changing the save
game files like SH3Commander does.

[martes86]

Apperantly not, from an article at the VE website.

Do they quote any reliable source for that?
Because, for the moment, only game progress, user data, will be stored at Ubi. I doubt mods will be stored at Ubi, if the usual mode for doing mods is used (i.e., you modify game files which are installed at your own PC). If any other methods must be used, then you could be right, but I seriously doubt it, after seeing how the folder structure was at the Copenhaguen preview.

Cheers :rock:

[Randomizer]

All game files are not on the Ubisoft servers. The game will create a local file when you save your game. That file will then be synchronized with your save files on the Ubi server. This will not affect modding.
That's not the question asked. Will OSP affect ownership of the mods themselves?

Modders are entitled to copyright protection of their ideas as much as UBISoft is entitled to protection of theirs. Files that are uploaded to Facebook become property of Facebook, do mods saved at UBISoft become property of UBISoft rather than the Modders?

[razark]

Apperantly not, from an article at the VE website.

One very interesting benefit of this new account management system is how it handles save games. Your saves will be stored remotely on Ubi servers, allowing access to your game saves on any machine.

Is that quote from the article? If so, it only says the save games will be stored on the server. Not mods, not configuration, not screen shots, not your grocery list. Only save games.

Question remains, if they save it do they own it?
I don't know, but I'd read the EULA very carefully.

Maybe they'll release a collection of missions, based on saved games?

That's not the question asked. Will OSP affect ownership of the mods themselves?
As a derivative work based on the copyrighted files already owned by Ubi, do they already own all mods?

Files that are uploaded to Facebook become property of Facebook, do mods saved at UBISoft become property of UBISoft rather than the Modders?
First show that mods, and not just saved games, will be stored on Ubi servers.

[mookiemookie]

do mods saved at UBISoft become property of UBISoft rather than the Modders?

How is a mod going to be saved at Ubi when all they're syncing is the local savegame file?

[Randomizer]

True or false: Saved games are stored on UBISoft's server.

True or false: Any modder needs saved games to test their mods.

True or false: Any modded saved game will contain the modded files.

True or false: Currently Modders retain intellectual property rights of their mods by copyright and by ownership of the original source files.

If UBISoft comes into possession of these source files via a saved game, can they claim copyright ownership as Facebook can when a person saves content there?

This is not about modability rather it's a question as to whether OSP MIGHT provide UBISoft with a method of acquiring the creative content of the modding community for free.

I have enormous respect for the SH modding community and would really hate to see any of them get burned by corporate exploitation of ambiguous Internet copyright issues.

[Mikhayl]

True or false: Any modder needs saved games to test their mods.

True or false: Any modded saved game will contain the modded files.


False for maybe 99% of mods.

I don't see Ubi ever using mods for commercial purpose without permission to do so, I imagine the backlash would be monumental.

[razark]

True or false: Saved games are stored on UBISoft's server.
True

True or false: Any modder needs saved games to test their mods.
False. Some mods can be tested by simply loading the game, going into the tutorial, and seeing if the texture looks right. No saved game needed for many mods. Sound, graphics, texture, menus, etc.

True or false: Any modded saved game will contain the modded files.
False. The save game contains data about what's going on. The mod files are completely separate from the saved game.

True or false: Currently Modders retain intellectual property rights of their mods by copyright and by ownership of the original source files.
False. You do not own the original files. They are owned by Ubisoft. You simply have a license to use them. You can't go to a bookstore, pick up a book, cross out a couple words on a few pages, insert new words, and claim the book as your own original work.

If UBISoft comes into possession of these source files via a saved game, can they claim copyright ownership as Facebook can when a person saves content there?

This is not about modability rather it's a question as to whether OSP MIGHT provide UBISoft with a method of acquiring the creative content of the modding community for free.


Statements based on incorrect assumptions of how OSP and saved games work.

If you can provide evidence that OSP will be sending modded game files to Ubi, that changes the situation completely. If you can show that OSP sniffs around on your hard drive to see what you have installed, they've lied to us about OSP and how it works.

Does anyone know the ownership situation of modded files? I'm curious as to that, and I've heard conflicting opinions. I'll have to research that later.

[THE_MASK]

The devs said we could mod sh5 . Why would they lie ?

[Randomizer]

I was just asking the questions, my concerns were only in regard to protection of the creative property of the modders. Thanks.

[Powerthighs]

I took a look at the SHIV EULA. Here is an excerpt:


It is not permitted:
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work
- To create or distribute any unauthorized levels and/or scenarios
- To decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Multimedia Product


I'm not a lawyer, but it looks like modding the game is technically against the license. Of course, they reserve the right to enforce or not enforce, so they encourage modding as long as it doesn't harm their business. But if someone tried to undercut them in some way they could enforce it.

Regarding the saved games, only a file generated by the game would actually be stored on the server - all the code and data that makes the game run is on your PC, both original and modded. It's likely that if a mod changes the format of the save file, it wouldn't be a problem, since they probably just store it as a blob of bits.

At any rate, the mods themselves aren't ever on the server.

Remember that with almost any piece of commerical software, you are just getting a license to use it, you don't own it.