The Press Blasts Ubisoft! [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Brag

02-04-10, 09:34 AM

IT IS MUCH WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT:
Latest update:

Why Ubisoft DRM for Assassin's Creed 2 has outraged gamers / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Horizons/2010/0219/Why-Ubisoft-DRM-for-Assassin-s-Creed-2-has-outraged-gamers)

http://hothardware.com/cs/forums/p/46855/350422.aspx (http://hothardware.com/cs/forums/p/46855/350422.aspx)

PC Gamer Blog: Constant net connection required to play Assassin's Creed 2 on PC - PC Gamer Magazine (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg)

Here are some links to what the experts say about Ubisoft's DRM/OSP

Ubisoft touts games drm - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1589307/ubisoft-touts-games-drm)
Ubisoft's new DRM solution: you have be online to play (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/ubisofts-new-drm-solution-you-have-be-online-to-play.ars)

New Ubisoft DRM requires Internet connection - The Tech Report (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/18367)

Ubisoft Goes DRM-Free for Old Games (http://technologizer.com/2009/03/26/ubisoft-goes-drm-free-for-old-games/)

The Escapist : Experienced Points: Activation Bomb (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb)

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg (http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg)

Game Developers Skeptical About Ubisoft’s New DRM | TorrentFreak (http://torrentfreak.com/game-developers-skeptical-abou-ubisofts-new-drm-100206/)
Extracted from Gamelatest preview:

Another annoying thing is the need to be hooked to internet to play SH5. The preview copy would freeze if the internet connection was lost, and to launch the game, I had to logon to Ubisoft services first!

Letum

02-04-10, 09:42 AM

Ubi is taking broadsides. I hope some are hitting below the waterline.

urfisch

02-04-10, 09:45 AM

nice...but i do not understand, that low quality games, with lots of bugs in it, are not beeing mentioned. and these buggy games, with bad support, are one of ubis greatest problems. not the drm is...

brandtryan

02-04-10, 09:47 AM

Well said, Letum.

flag4

02-04-10, 09:50 AM

Here are some links to what the experts say about Ubisoft's DRM/OSP

Ubisoft touts games drm - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1589307/ubisoft-touts-games-drm)
Ubisoft's new DRM solution: you have be online to play (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/ubisofts-new-drm-solution-you-have-be-online-to-play.ars)

New Ubisoft DRM requires Internet connection - The Tech Report (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/18367)

its interesting that the ubisoft spokesman tells how wonderful everything will be - but i want to store my saved games on my computer. i will not be accessing the game from a 100 different ones - or playing online. it is my game, played by me.

they all sound like politicians accentuating a particular kind of positive, but who's positive is it, their's or ours?

Ragtag

02-04-10, 10:33 AM

its interesting that the ubisoft spokesman tells how wonderful everything will be - but i want to store my saved games on my computer. i will not be accessing the game from a 100 different ones - or playing online. it is my game, played by me.

they all sound like politicians accentuating a particular kind of positive, but who's positive is it, their's or ours?

Propanda. Ubi think they will get away with it just because they let people install it on unlimited number of PC's and that there will be no on-disc DRM. Someone just shot themselves in the foot. Who the hell wants a game that's gonna pause everytime the players connection drops below required speed or just disconnects. LOL... like watching a movie with the unfriendly neighbour sitting with the remotecontrol :P

janh

02-04-10, 10:49 AM

fanny-tastic. The more wind blows into UBI's faces, the more likely they will rethink their strategy. Although at this point I'd much more like to see it backfire to a degree that finishes UBI as a bad example for a company that failed to realize that DRM does as much bad as good... Seems like most companies these days row in the opposite direction!

Why doesn't the SH developer studio find a new distributor now that also given them more time to complete features, and not shoot out half-finished products with a single sub and no full-war campaign? Or at least annouce those as forthcoming addons already to calm the waves? They should already start thinking about suing UBI for the sales they'll loose...

Anyway, I thought about the new campaign and since it is obviously not a flexible system where you could quickly change your Patrouliengebiet to a different region, say if the Mediterranean gets boring, it is a MISSION oriented game. Not a real campaign, but broken up. Do I get that right?

java`s revenge

02-04-10, 10:54 AM

And is the system protected against hackers and when there will be
a trojan in the system will be everybody infected?

I do love steam, why don`t they use it?

The Enigma

02-04-10, 10:56 AM

Director Brent Wilkinson has signed the death sentence over UBI's future.

tater

02-04-10, 11:27 AM

its interesting that the ubisoft spokesman tells how wonderful everything will be - but i want to store my saved games on my computer. i will not be accessing the game from a 100 different ones - or playing online. it is my game, played by me.

they all sound like politicians accentuating a particular kind of positive, but who's positive is it, their's or ours?

The only eason to recall a save game on another computer might be, say, pulling up your desktop PC campaign on your laptop—sorry, but Ubi doesn't allow portable computing unless they have a perfect net connection!

They are so idiotic. You want to play, and Ubi is updating the server and you are SOL. Do you feel like smashing something at that moment, yes, or no? For me the answer would certainly be "yes." I'm not paying money to get all POed when the likely frequent server errors make it impossible to play.

Brag

02-04-10, 12:50 PM

In researching DRM, every gamer forum I have visited (there are gazillions of them) is like a mirror image of this one. Everyone is upset and bitching over Ubi's decision to go DRM.

The discontent is broad enough to put Ubis future very much in doubt. If I was a Ubi shareholde, L'd be bailing out. :yep:

Webster

02-04-10, 01:10 PM

i actually loved this part best:

The system verifies the disc to see if it's a legit copy of the game using Ubisoft's servers. The up side is that it will also automatically keep the your settings online, allowing you to transfer data such as perferences and saved games across PCs.
In an interview with Gamespy (http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-settlers-7-paths-to-a-kingdom/1063391p1.html), Brent Wilkinson, Ubisoft's director of customer service and production planning was adamant that this is a viable solution (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/#).
"Now you can access your saved games anywhere. You don't need the disc in the drive. You can play from any computer that has an Internet connection," he said. "We think most people are going to be fine with it. Most people are always connected to an Internet connection."

now its amazing how its going to check the disk if it isnt in the drive? or are they getting their lies mixed up?

Sailor Steve

02-04-10, 01:28 PM

Ubi is taking broadsides. I hope some are hitting below the waterline.
I disagree. I want the hits to be to the bridge. Rather have them get the message up close and personal than have them sink.

Hey, your simile, not mine!:D

Galanti

02-04-10, 01:51 PM

The only eason to recall a save game on another computer might be, say, pulling up your desktop PC campaign on your laptop—sorry, but Ubi doesn't allow portable computing unless they have a perfect net connection!

The utility of online savegames is also very much suspect given that almost no one here is going to play an unmodded SH5, and savegames are very much peculiar to particular install. Consequently, you're not going to able to play at a buddies house if he's got Hi_Rez Soup_Textures_V3 enabled and you're still runnning Hi_Rez Soup_Textures_V1.

JSLTIGER

02-04-10, 02:00 PM

Ubi is taking broadsides. I hope some are hitting below the waterline.

Hope it's coming at them in the form of a projectile from one of an Iowa's guns. Nothing like a 2700 lb. shell coming at you at 2690 ft/s to scare the bejeezus out of you. :up:

karamazovnew

02-04-10, 02:09 PM

i actually loved this part best:

now its amazing how its going to check the disk if it isnt in the drive? or are they getting their lies mixed up?

Hard-DISK....

I love this part:
"This is fine," one self-professed pirate told Ars. "I only have to access the Internet once to get Ubisoft games. You're the ones paying for a broken copy."

Clearly, the pirate-lords are very scared... :haha:

The Enigma

02-04-10, 02:10 PM

I disagree. I want the hits to be to the bridge. Rather have them get the message up close and personal than have them sink.

Me neither, but it will be hard to survive if they insist to go down that road.

MercurySeven

02-04-10, 02:40 PM

now its amazing how its going to check the disk if it isnt in the drive? or are they getting their lies mixed up?

I assume it checks when you install. You basically start up the internet before you open the packaging. :shifty:

Webster

02-04-10, 02:46 PM

i do not "want" UBI to fail but if they are now a company that has decided to stop listening to its customers then isnt that a good reason for them to fail?

if it does happen then all we can hope for is that a better run company can take over their intelectual property (big word for the games they own) and really give the customers a product the customers want to buy.

in my mind once a company decides "they know better then you" and start telling you that what they want is what you should want then they are doomed to fail and its time for new management or the company to fail?

its how and why buisnesses fail and get taken over every day.

in buisness its very simple, you keep your customers happy and they will be loyal and keep spending money on your games, you show customers you dont care what they want and they will stop buying your games, loyalties go out the window, and the company pays a severe financial penalty that may or may not lead to the companies downfall.

Hitman

02-04-10, 02:59 PM

The funny thing is that they believe this will increase sales, because now all pirates won't be able to crack the game and will need to buy it. How wrong they are. The fact that lots of kids who download and play one hour a game are out there, doesn't mean they would pay for the game. Nor will pay for it those who have not enough money in underdeveloped countries (They might pirate a game, but they can't afford buying it), or who just wanted to take a look.

The other usual excuse is that now with this new DRM most users won't notice at all and won't even realize that the game checks the internt. Fine. But you are actually talking about people who were already going to buy it, not to pirates who have to bit the bullet and buy the game! I know some people who download films, music and games from internet, and talking with them you soon realize that they wouldn't be buying it if it were protected.

I don't think that SH5 sales will increase thanks to the DRM. It will just scare away legit users who aren't going to allow this, and deter pirates who would not have bought the game anyway.

Time will tell which number will be bigger: The pirates who become honest and now buy the game, or the legit users sick of this who no longer buy it.

I suspect the answer already :nope:

JU_88

02-04-10, 04:03 PM

The funny thing is that they believe this will increase sales, because now all pirates won't be able to crack the game and will need to buy it. How wrong they are. The fact that lots of kids who download and play one hour a game are out there, doesn't mean they would pay for the game. Nor will pay for it those who have not enough money in underdeveloped countries (They might pirate a game, but they can't afford buying it), or who just wanted to take a look.

If Ubi is thinking like that, then really are out of touch.
But you are quite right, many pirates are actually digital hoarders and opportunists who will download stuff they wouldnt normally buy, just because they can.
In fact I wouldn't be surprised if many illegal game downloads even get installed, let aloneplayed and up just rotting on someones HHD.
Reason being, anything that is free loses all appreciative value.

I have known certain 'Torrent junkies' who even never play/watch/listen to half the stuff they download/steal, simply because they have more hard drive space than they have time (or sense).

Simple fact not every illegal downloads is a lost sale, but because there is no way to monitor this or get an accurate statistic, I can understand that the publisher just assumes its a 1 for 1 loss on every illegal download -giving the perception that problem is much worse than it actually is and then slap on the DRM.

conus00

02-04-10, 05:01 PM

Hope it's coming at them in the form of a projectile from one of an Iowa's guns. Nothing like a 2700 lb. shell coming at you at 2690 ft/s to scare the bejeezus out of you. :up:

Hey, you don't need Iowa for that. Just use the single 88 cm gun on "Ubisoft's VIIA". That would make a quite BANG. :haha:

Nickolas

02-04-10, 05:09 PM

Hey, you don't need Iowa for that. Just use the single 88 cm gun on "Ubisoft's VIIA". That would make a quite BANG. :haha:

and being that is FAST FIRING it might work as a MRSI (multiple rounds, simultaneous impact) system.

Stealth Hunter

02-04-10, 05:10 PM

"BLASTS". Like literally, they took a cannon and fired it at them. It's funny when people on TV say stuff like this.

I really could care less if it has DRM or not. If it does, it's not going to bother me. Neither will the internet connection stuff. If it doesn't, well that's great. I can download it first and try it out, then decide if I want to buy it or not.

Really, I don't care. I just want it to be released already so I can play it.

Ragtag

02-04-10, 05:15 PM

If ubisoft claims that they can just patch the game and remove the OSP if they decide to put down the servers, the game can be cracked. And im willing to bet money that it will be. Maybe not the day it's released but at some point yes. Nothing is impossible. There are tons of examples of that not to mention that there are som brilliant brains out there that would just love give it a shot. And when they manage to crack it once they can crack them all. And in the end the paying customer is the one being "punished"... again.
That's one of the reasons i'm against the OSP. They don't hurt or stop piracy but they do attack the buyers with solutions like this. The wrong side pays for it.

GREY WOLF 3

02-04-10, 05:25 PM

Ubisoft has stumbled with DRM in the past. Last summer, legally downloaded copies of Rainbow Six Vegas 2 for the PC wouldn’t work because they lacked an authentication disc (duh), and the company resorted to an illegal crack from a warez group to fix it (d’oh). A few months prior, DRM rendered Assassin’s Creed unplayable for some rightful owners as it unsuccessfully tried to authenticate over the Internet.

I like this part

the company resorted to an illegal crack from a warez group to fix it (d’oh

Letum

02-04-10, 06:43 PM

Really, I don't care. I just want it to be released already so I can play it.

Latest rumor is that it has been delayed to Q4 2010.
Good thing in my opinion.

Carotio

02-04-10, 06:44 PM

Latest rumor is that it has been delayed to Q4 2010.
Good thing in my opinion.

I hope you don't quote me for that.... :03:

Nisgeis

02-04-10, 06:46 PM

What travels faster than light? Rumours.

Letum

02-04-10, 06:50 PM

Latest rumor is that it has been delayed to Q4 2010.
Good thing in my opinion.

False alarm!
You just can't get the translation staff these days. :D

Task Force

02-04-10, 07:11 PM

What travels faster than light? Rumours.

NO! nothing travels faster than light...(well, known now.) maby just under it but not faster than it.:O: lol

JackAubrey

02-04-10, 08:25 PM

False alarm!
You just can't get the translation staff these days. :D
Yeah. He says it's released on "Vierten Dritten", which is colloquial german and means 4th of March.

Lt commander lare

02-04-10, 09:38 PM

i think this is ubisofts biggest mistake i have played every silent hunter game that has come out starting with silent service with nintendo im a submarine veteran of submarine games but i will go down with my ship before i buy this title unless they allow an offline option i dont mind disc verification but offline play is a must and allowing to save the game to your own hard drive this is political suicide for ubisoft

lt commander lare

Steeltrap

02-04-10, 09:43 PM

If ubisoft claims that they can just patch the game and remove the OSP if they decide to put down the servers, the game can be cracked.

My thoughts exactly. They're already acknowledging it's possible to do.

sabretwo

02-04-10, 10:28 PM

In spite of the handful of tech-news sites and blogs, coverage of UBI's DRM/OPM is still pretty small. I'm waiting for the outrage to really hit the gamer magazines and the game sites like IGN. Many customers don't read the tech blogs, but they do read game magazines and the game sites.

:hmmm: Thinking about it, what we should be doing is writing to the gamer mags and gamer sites. If the editors start getting enough letters and emails it very well might get their attention.

(UBI, just wait until the comments boards on the big game sites open after your new games are released! Probably a small percentage of potential customers read forums like this, but they do read those user reviews on IGN and other sites!!! Future customers should be warned of what your doing before they buy. :D)

Steeltrap

02-04-10, 10:47 PM

The real fun will start if Ubi's servers are unreliable, or people find their 'stable connections' aren't so stable or capable enough to give seamless gameplay.

Webster

02-05-10, 12:35 AM

The real fun will start if Ubi's servers are unreliable, or people find their 'stable connections' aren't so stable or capable enough to give seamless gameplay.

i expect that will start happening around march 5th 2010

and get even worse as each new game increases demand on the servers

XLjedi

02-05-10, 01:35 AM

Obviously the UbiSoft guy missed his calling as a US Congressman.

He may as well end his sentences with... and everyone will love our new healthcare plan.

JScones

02-05-10, 01:59 AM

If ubisoft claims that they can just patch the game and remove the OSP if they decide to put down the servers, the game can be cracked.
Well, given Ubisoft's history, they're prolly hoping for it, just so they can adopt the pirated files as the "official" fix.

Ragtag

02-05-10, 03:07 AM

Well, given Ubisoft's history, they're prolly hoping for it, just so they can adopt the pirated files as the "official" fix.

Double morality has no end. Not even with Ubisoft ;)
It's more an more clear to me that they are trying to stop the re-sales of used games rather than attacking the piracy groups.

karamazovnew

02-05-10, 03:55 AM

It's more an more clear to me that they are trying to stop the re-sales of used games rather than attacking the piracy groups.

They've managed to stop Hitler from reselling. That's a good thing, right? Right? :haha:

Kaleun_Endrass

02-05-10, 04:13 AM

NO! nothing travels faster than light...(well, known now.) maby just under it but not faster than it.:O: lol
Wrong! Take a look here (http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/%7Empoessel/Physik/FTL/tunnelingftl.html). There was an information transmitted with 4.7 times the speed of light. But that's OT

karamazovnew

02-05-10, 04:18 AM

Wrong! Take a look here (http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/%7Empoessel/Physik/FTL/tunnelingftl.html). There was an information transmitted with 4.7 times the speed of light. But that's OT

Dead wrong!, take a look here:

http://homepage.mac.com/craigkuehne/DeadWrong/Dead-Wrong-Poster-Lrg.jpg

:O:

JackAubrey

02-05-10, 06:54 AM

Obviously the UbiSoft guy missed his calling as a US Congressman.

He may as well end his sentences with... and everyone will love our new healthcare plan.
Wouldn't work in germany. We are not that afraid of public healthcare. :woot:
/SCNR

urfisch

02-05-10, 07:11 AM

seems, as if there are a lot of highly skilled experts at ubi. paid more than well and knowing much more, than a lot of other people.

congratulations for this enhancement, ubi.

:har:

Hitman

02-05-10, 07:41 AM

In any case, I would like that UBI made public the sales of the game AFTER it gets cracked (in case it gets cracked) and before.

I bet that once the game gets cracked -if it ever gets- sales will rise for some time, when people who wanted it and passed, now decide to buy.

That would give an accurate figure of how many sales ubi REALLY lost. :hmmm:

urfisch

02-05-10, 07:44 AM

such data will never be published...i also often do not trust the "official figures"...

frog7

02-05-10, 09:06 AM

Iv been a sub sim fan for years but this no internet connection no game play is the last straw for me...iv played all silent hunter and will carry on playing my old silent hunter sims. but i cant get internet connection all the time and think this is a bad so i canceld my order with play.com.its a shame we are not all pirates but we are being punished for the few that are...maybe a few years il be able to get it without needing a permant internaet connection.. bye guys

Seeadler

02-06-10, 07:10 AM

Criticism from game developers about the new Ubisoft DRM
http://www.develop-online.net/news/33820/Piracy-can-be-killed-by-a-superior-service

Letum

02-06-10, 07:21 AM

Interesting link.
I'm not surprised there are some unhappy Devs.

piri_reis

02-06-10, 07:47 AM

Interesting views from other Devs.
OSP will backfire like predicted.

Ragtag

02-06-10, 08:39 AM

It's not only interesting but it's logic and sensible that you will drive buyers away and attract more downloads of cracked games when one tries to FORCE a service not needed, or wanted, upon the honest, paying customers.
I have no idea how Ubisoft came to this solution but the dude that came up with the idea should be fired.
I already mentioned that i cancelled 4 pre-orders of PC games and i considered buying some of them on consoles instead. But the more i think of this the more reluctant i get. I'm not buying any Ubisoft games at all in the future. Full boycot from me untill OSP is gone. Hell, there are plenty of other good games coming up from other distributors like Heavy Rain for instance. I'll be enjoying games as i always have and leave Ubi be.

TH0R

02-06-10, 10:01 AM

Criticism from game developers about the new Ubisoft DRM
http://www.develop-online.net/news/33820/Piracy-can-be-killed-by-a-superior-service

Thanks for posting this, finally a sane thought...

mookiemookie

02-06-10, 10:37 AM

Criticism from game developers about the new Ubisoft DRM
http://www.develop-online.net/news/33820/Piracy-can-be-killed-by-a-superior-service

Luke Maskell – an artist at Oxford indie outfit Gusto Games – was in agreement that superior services can help curb piracy, but adamantly argued that Ubisoft will be doing the opposite with their new online DRM.
“All Ubisoft is doing is kicking their customers in the face,” he said. “If Ubisoft is going to provide a service that is worse than pirating the game, they are only going to attract more pirates.”

Sounds like Luke has it figured out. Brilliant statement.

Hitman

02-06-10, 10:48 AM

From Seeadler's link:

“Copy protection that makes the cracked version of the game more appealing threatens to turn gamers away from purchasing at all,”

My thoughts exactly.

Wann do what pirates can't? GIve with the legally bought game a nice, hi-res map, a good printed recognition manual, a good -as back in the old times- massive printed manual, a wiz-wheel replicating the real ones (UBI for that one you have my templates and work for free already at your disposal as long as you remove the DRM!) and similar stuff.

BEAT THE PIRATES INSTEAD OF SCREWING YOUR OWN CUSTOMERS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! :wah:

tater

02-06-10, 10:48 AM

On topic, that dev interview was interesting reading. Have to agree with them on annoyance vs sales.

The Enigma

02-06-10, 12:51 PM

Luke Maskell: – an artist at Oxford indie outfit Gusto Games – was in agreement that superior services can help curb piracy, but adamantly argued that Ubisoft will be doing the opposite with their new online DRM.
“All Ubisoft is doing is kicking their customers in the face,”

Exactly my thoughts!

Webster

02-06-10, 12:52 PM

Guys, please take the political stuff to PM

agreed, this thread isnt the place for that conversation

martes86

02-06-10, 02:04 PM

From Seeadler's link:

My thoughts exactly.

Wann do what pirates can't? GIve with the legally bought game a nice, hi-res map, a good printed recognition manual, a good -as back in the old times- massive printed manual, a wiz-wheel replicating the real ones (UBI for that one you have my templates and work for free already at your disposal as long as you remove the DRM!) and similar stuff.

BEAT THE PIRATES INSTEAD OF SCREWING YOUR OWN CUSTOMERS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! :wah:

I totally agree. But make that worldwide, not just "The USA gets bonus, and everyone else doesn't", like what happened with SH3, the USA fellas getting some printed maps, and we didn't get squat back here. :nope:

Cheers :rock:

Jades

02-06-10, 03:57 PM

The UK release of SH3 came with a map and quick-reference card as well as the somewhat below-average manual.

HundertzehnGustav

02-06-10, 04:32 PM

Mine too, i am in Luxembourg...???

BTW if u buy the game on the net, no you WON'T get a printed map!

:haha:
;)

Kapitanleutnant

02-06-10, 04:34 PM

Unless you print it yourself....

martes86

02-06-10, 04:39 PM

Mine too, i am in Luxembourg...???

BTW if u buy the game on the net, no you WON'T get a printed map!

:haha:
;)

I did buy it in a store, like almost anyone else, so it was printed.
And no, I won't print it myself and spend my own ink on it when others have it included. Printer ink is too expensive. :nope:

Dimitrius07

02-06-10, 05:32 PM

I have a question. Are they on drugs or something??? Who came up with such briliant idea anyway. What about security? If the server get hacked (wich is a possebility) what players are supose to do next? Pray that they system will stay stable? I am sorry i `am not taking such chances even for Sh5. Have a nice day UBI :salute:

GREY WOLF 3

02-06-10, 05:47 PM

HundertzehnGustav

02-06-10, 05:56 PM

I have a question. Are they on drugs or something???

Its called "greed"...

...but i didnt say that...;)

Kapitan_Phillips

02-06-10, 06:27 PM

http://i46.tinypic.com/mskt9l.jpg

Lets hope this backlash gets some heads turned, but I doubt it will. Publishers seem to have a knack of having cloth ears when it comes to the consumer.

609_Avatar

02-06-10, 07:32 PM

Lets hope this backlash gets some heads turned, but I doubt it will. Publishers seem to have a knack of having cloth ears when it comes to the consumer.

That's why I started this thread as it seems that complaining can be helpful sometimes: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=161357

Onkel Neal

02-06-10, 07:49 PM

That's an example that might work ....

But I don't wish to derail this thread.

Sorry, I should have left a note explaining that I split the health care topics off to GT (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?p=1259820#post1259820) :oops:

Back to the OP topic. ;)

Undefined

02-07-10, 09:08 AM

....

UrPeaceKeeper

02-07-10, 01:37 PM

HundertzehnGustav

02-07-10, 01:59 PM

flight simulators excel on consolesq? did i get that right?

Lord Biceps

02-07-10, 02:00 PM

It's nice to see that Ubi will take some serious flak for their serious incompetance about the whole DRM issue. What they do need to realize is that a lot of piracy issues can be thwarted by simply releasing a Demo. I know a few friends who only download games, play em for an hour and then decide if the game is worth buying or not. Some of them play it longer but still, a DEMO with full features and a single mission or whatever goes a long way in helping your game. I, like most people, choose to make educated purchases and video games are no exception, and it's very difficult to make purchases based off of game play videos which are meant to highlight the platform. SH5 is NO different, the absolute lack of answers from Devs about the game and almost disturbingly bad game play videos make this a close no purchase. I will probably buy this, just to see if all this negative press is well founded, I can assure you that a single U-boat game is already a turn off for me.

And to those who will simply buy console versions of games, please remember you are perpetuating the death of PC gaming and supporting what truely is an inferrior method of game play for the majority of games that are not FPS games or racing/flight simulators which seem to be the few games that excel on consoles. Thats my opinion, take it how you like, but I can't stand consoles.

:arrgh!:

I agree completely. Consoles have absolutely destroyed gaming by forcing developers to cater to the drooling masses in order to make money. The last straw was Civilization, a series I've played since the beginning, and which have always seen a new game within 5 years. Well, 5 years have soon passed, and not a single word on a new installment. Instead, they released some utterly cretinous X-box abomination, and now, apparently, a FACEBOOK version! Give me a break! If Civilization isn't a PC game to the core, I don't know what is! :damn:

Console players have lower intelligence, that's a proven fact.

Schultz

02-07-10, 02:04 PM

They started to make more console games then PC games because of the piracy, how I wished that pircay didn't existed, but also without piracy they need to lower down the prices.

Letum

02-07-10, 02:43 PM

They started to make more console games then PC games because of the piracy, how I wished that pircay didn't existed, but also without piracy they need to lower down the prices.

Console games suffer from piracy just as much as PCs.

Schultz

02-07-10, 03:07 PM

True true, but less

UrPeaceKeeper

02-07-10, 10:45 PM

flight simulators excel on consolesq? did i get that right?

Compared to an RTS game, I'd say so yes. There are few genres that work well on Console games, I just named a few, how many MMO's do you see for Consoles? How about GOOD RTS? What I do see is a few RTS games that are ok, but a PITA to go through with AI dumbed down to the point of being easy to destroy. Console gaming has it's place, truely, but it has succeeded in destroying PC gaming, which is a supperior method of gaming IMO. Any number of controllers can be made for PC and are universal for all people with USB 2.0 Ports and software, where as I cant take my G25 Race wheel to the Xbox360 (I can to the PS3 though) And I can't take my Xbox360 USB Guitar Hero Guitar to my USB 2.0 Wii ports as it wont work. It's stupid, they make gobs of money off of periphials and making mindless boring video games.

PC games make it easier to mod, make the game capable of harder difficulties that require thinking to accomplish, and better graphics capabilities even within the realm of the "average" gaming PC. PC Gaming also is half the reason computer advances are made. The computers that are used in industry and the business world dont need to be half that of what most computer gamers want their rigs to be like. Very rarely do you see a Console pioneering new technology in the computer world. (Arguable, PS3 with cell processors).

Anyway, I fear that SH5 will probably be the last SH anyway, I doubt Ubi will be able to afford keeping themselves afloat after the horrible press release videos and DRM fiasco. And the later could be easily reduced by releasing a full playable demo and exclusive content for people who buy the game. Do I see it happening? Hell no, but it's not my boat to sink. I will most likely buy SH5 because I want to see how bad it is most likely going to be. Especially since I doubt a demo will ever be produced...

:arrgh!:

martes86

02-08-10, 03:47 AM

I wouldn't say as much as "excel", though some can be quite good to use. But I disagree about MMOs, which are usually FPS/RPGs, and some of them can even be playable on the net from a console. It depends a lot on the stuff being done.
Anyways, let's hope consoles don't kill the PC, I refuse to take on consoles, or having to develop my games for a console. PCs have far many more advantages.

Cheers :rock:

Brag

02-08-10, 01:30 PM

Here is another article:

The Escapist : Experienced Points: Activation Bomb (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb)

Moo!

mookiemookie

02-08-10, 01:39 PM

Here is another article:

The Escapist : Experienced Points: Activation Bomb (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb)

Moo!

Great points in this article.

Nisgeis

02-08-10, 02:14 PM

Yes, very good points.

The Enigma

02-08-10, 02:33 PM

Here is another article:
The Escapist : Experienced Points: Activation Bomb (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb)
Moo!

Good article. A must read for all who love or hate DRM.

cappy70

02-08-10, 02:48 PM

This is a link I found.......:salute:

http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm (http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm)

609_Avatar

02-08-10, 02:54 PM

Brag

02-08-10, 03:37 PM

This is a link I found.......:salute:

http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm (http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm)

Good find cappy :salute:

Here is an excerpt from waaay down the bottom.

In a refreshing break from the standard video game industry propaganda, a pair of maverick PC developers offer some straight talk on DRM to Gamasutra's (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4020/pc_game_piracy_why_bother_with_.php)Paul Hyman.
Ron Carmel of 2D Boy (http://2dboy.com/games.php) (World of Goo) believes that the major publishers are beginning to back off on the use of DRM following consumer outrage over its use in games like Spore:
I definitely believe this is all the result of a change in the public perception of DRM, a sort of grass roots uprising. Gamers are much more vocal about it than they used to be, perhaps because they are so accustomed to downloading music without too many restrictions.
But Carmel also relates DRM to the battle over used game sales currently being waged between video game publishers and retailers:
Publishers aren't stupid. They know that DRM doesn't work against piracy. What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold.

Jimbuna

02-08-10, 03:40 PM

Good link cappy70 http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

DirtyACE

02-08-10, 06:01 PM

Thanks for posting those articles guys. There's some good info in them and good points on why DRM is a flawed concept.

I agree with some of the things such as giving the customers extra incentives to buy a game. Something that pirates wont be able to do. Though at the same time, there are players who really don't care about the extra incentives as long as they have the game. And of course there's one thing that pirates do provide that no software/game developer can, and that's a free product.

Overall, I do believe that software/game studios should be more concerned and striving towards giving excellent service to their target audience/community. Pretty much any good to half-decent game has one and the game designers should be paying close attention to the trends within them. Listen to customer feedback as much as possible and let your customer know that you are there and acknowledging their requests.

Some of the games I play, such as Football Manager (made by Sports Interactive) do a very good job at this. They came from a very humble background and have grown by leaps and bounds for the last 14 years (maybe more). Yet, they have not forgotten their roots and responsibility to the community. Their games (while not perfect all the time) always reflect a big input by their fans/players, and there's always a back and forth communication between the game developers and the players.

martes86

02-08-10, 06:22 PM

madjack

02-08-10, 06:49 PM

So what happens if you lose connection with the Ubisoft servers mid-patrol?

Does the game shut down?

Or does it tell you that you can continue to play but will lose all your progress unless the connection can be restored?

Or, if connection is lost, will it store a temp save on your machine with the catch that the temp save can not be reloaded (if you exit/restart the game) until you've connected to Ubisoft and uploaded the temp save?

Brag

02-08-10, 07:14 PM

TarJak

02-08-10, 07:55 PM

This is a link I found.......:salute:

http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm (http://eee.theeca.com/category/topics/drm)

I love this quote!

If you're annoyed when you have to show your receipt to someone when you walk out of an electronics store, Ubisoft is not the company for you. This is like having to show your receipt every time you want to turn on your television.

Rip

02-08-10, 08:18 PM

and continuing to wave it around over your head for the entire show.
:doh:

DirtyACE

02-08-10, 08:25 PM

and continuing to wave it around over your head for the entire show.
:doh:

Why waive it around? Just glue it to your forehead and presto! :yeah:

Rip

02-08-10, 08:30 PM

Why waive it around? Just glue it to your forehead and presto! :yeah:

Brilliant!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__jFgOqdirRY/Sp_3nME9y0I/AAAAAAAACkc/j0YBZw1s5vg/s400/brilliant_medium.jpg

JScones

02-09-10, 02:03 AM

But Carmel also relates DRM to the battle over used game sales currently being waged between video game publishers and retailers:Publishers aren't stupid. They know that DRM doesn't work against piracy. What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold.

EXACTLY the point I continue to make. DRM's main aim isn't about reducing piracy (in which it is akin to hitting a walnut with a sledgehammer); it's about stopping resale, which means more people must buy the game "new", which means more "untapped" $ in Ubisoft's pockets. Consider it a subsidy approach against piracy, but not a direct approach against piracy.

Of course, Ubisoft and others would never admit that is their main driver (although, surprisingly, Take2 Publishing did admit this), particularly when it is so much more convenient to blame those "bad, nasty pirates" that every law abiding person hates. And with the amount of people here blindly blaming pirates exclusively for the need for such technology, then it's clear that Ubisoft's tactic is working.

onelifecrisis

02-09-10, 02:10 AM

EXACTLY the point I continue to make. DRM's main aim isn't about reducing piracy (in which it is akin to hitting a walnut with a sledgehammer); it's about stopping resale, which means more people must buy the game "new", which means more "untapped" $ in Ubisoft's pockets. Consider it a subsidy approach against piracy, but not a direct approach against piracy.

Of course, Ubisoft and others would never admit that is their main driver (although, surprisingly, Take2 Publishing did admit this), particularly when it is so much more convenient to blame those "bad, nasty pirates" that every law abiding person hates. And with the amount of people here blindly blaming pirates exclusively for the need for such technology, then it's clear that Ubisoft's tactic is working.
Then I too will remake a point:
Steam prevents resale and, unlike OSP, it doesn't cost a ton of money to set up and run and it doesn't piss off the customer base. I'm sure Steam take their cut but I doubt that cut compares to the cost of having servers that every Ubisoft PC gamer is constantly connected to. If resale was their only concern they wouldn't be taking such risks with OSP.

TarJak

02-09-10, 05:50 AM

EXACTLY the point I continue to make. DRM's main aim isn't about reducing piracy (in which it is akin to hitting a walnut with a sledgehammer); it's about stopping resale, which means more people must buy the game "new", which means more "untapped" $ in Ubisoft's pockets. Consider it a subsidy approach against piracy, but not a direct approach against piracy.

Of course, Ubisoft and others would never admit that is their main driver (although, surprisingly, Take2 Publishing did admit this), particularly when it is so much more convenient to blame those "bad, nasty pirates" that every law abiding person hates. And with the amount of people here blindly blaming pirates exclusively for the need for such technology, then it's clear that Ubisoft's tactic is working.

It's not just that. Look at EA's action with it's older titles which have online elements. Services and support for these are being switched off an miffed customers are being told to buy the 2010 version. http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/127348/ea-dropping-online-support-for-older-games/

This is a practise they have been carrying out for the last 3 years and are going to step it up with more online content being included in 2010 and onwards titles.

It's all about controlling not only resale but ongoing sales of long terms franchises.

JScones

02-09-10, 05:56 AM

Good point. Here (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/61792)'s their equivalent notification from early January this year - where they announced dropping multiplayer support for some 2009 games (admittedly moreso console than PC)! :doh:

"EA - now you're really pwned".

At least those games can still be played offline, although I'd hate to buy a game knowing that it has a publisher-controlled shelf life that will ultimately require me to "join the update roundabout". Imagine not being able to play SH3 in a month's time?

RSColonel_131st

02-09-10, 06:01 AM

I think in the battle between the big two (EA and UBI) both have long wanted to bind their customers trough online DRM, but neither dared to go first.

Expect EA to come up with something similar within six months if UBISofts experiment works out.

And then that will leave what, 20% (optimistic guess) of published games without OSP?

Seriously, I don't think I'm overstating things when I say: If UBI can get away with this system and doesn't receive a massive hit in the wallet, this will absolutely change the WHOLE computer game market and sales models - for worse.

NeoQB and Rise of Flight never were a real danger to set a market-wide precendence - UBI is.

Brag

02-09-10, 06:48 AM

Here is a NY Times article of interest

John Anderson and Sharon Rapoport estimate they spend $400 a month, or close to $5,000 a year, keeping their family of four entertained at home.

Cellphone and Entertainment Fees Add Up for Families - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/technology/09spend.html?hp)

RSColonel_131st

02-09-10, 07:03 AM

Key quote from that interesting link:

But they do not take into consideration the long-term economic effect — both in the maintenance and operational costs — of the devices they purchase. “A subscription model is the perfect drug,” Mr. McQuivey said. “People see $15 per month as a very low amount of money but it quickly adds up.”

Nothing could be prettier to a Bean Counter in a Suit than stuff you create once, sell to many and monthly.

The whole massive amount of money in Hollywood, Music and Games stems exactly from the fact that a single item, once created, could be copied at almost no cost and sold a thousand times.

Now, if that single item is a "Service" you create once, you can not only sell it a thousand times, you can sell a thousand yearly subscriptions.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Iron Budokan

02-09-10, 07:07 AM

You guys may or may not know this, but the whole DRM thing is reaching firestorm status in the publishing world as well, particularly as it relates to ebooks. This got really started during the Amazon vs Macmillion slapfight.

For reasons you might suspect, people who like ebooks despise DRM, especially when you compare it to books made out of deadwood. It's not going over well and the slopover is hurting both publishers and writers.

So while some people defend DRM, the majority of the public continues to view it as intrusive. Dunno how it will all shake out in the publishing world, not to say the gaming world as well. :cry:

cappy70

02-09-10, 12:53 PM

I saw that too in the world of e-books.
There's an avalanche coming down the mountain.:agree:

Sandman_28054

02-09-10, 03:55 PM

I think the concensus thus far is that Ubisoft went over and beyond the consumers. Mention was made a few pages back that sales is the key.

There are a few "hard-core" SH fans out there who will buy this game no matter what. And if your among the ones who do, bless you. I sincerely hope its everything you expect.

This DRM issue and the "internet" will separate the good from the bad. But, what I see is that there are a lot of people who in remote areas of the US who still use "dial-up". I know, I was one of them until DSL came around my area.

What about those who enjoy these SH3-4 games and can only play on dial up and cant access a T1 or greater connection???

Lets suppose Ubi starts out with a T1 server. Your playing, its in the middle of a convoy attack and BANG, your game dies.

What the hell!

Ubisoft is upgrading its servers check back later

I can think of nothing mre fustrating than for to happen.

ANd how many gamers can a T1, or even a T3 server handle before you get severe "lag"?

Pirates, smirates, most of us here, if not all, are legitimate customers. We pay for the game. We should be allowed to save our games on our own HD's rather than an internet server. And who is to say that when their server crashes, you won't loose you game data?

This is a bad idea, plain and simple.

I had just last week, ordered my SHV game, and reading the above articles and reading the DRM issue, I have since canceled my order. And I followed the example of even the older members who are long time posters who express discontent over this issue.

Now if they cancel this OSP issue, and SHV makes to the $5 bin at Wal-mart, I may buy it, but till then....

No.

THE_MASK

02-09-10, 08:21 PM

Head counters
http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=59&art_id=60&vars=Y29tX2lkPTczMCZzZW5kZXI9SE9NRSZzZW5kZXJfdXJsP WluZGV4LnBocCUzRnNpdF9pZCUzRDImZmlsdGVyX3R5cGU9JmZ pbHRlcl9tb250aD0mZmlsdGVyX3llYXI9&PHPSESSID=666914695905be0ce52931f7ce797443
UBISOFT® REPORTS THIRD-QUARTER 2009-10 SALES
Update on the strategic plan rollout

High-end games strategy
In line with the announcement January 13 announcement, Ubisoft continues to refocus its high-end games strategy by concentrating on more regular releases for its major franchises. These refocusing measures also comprise a reduction in new creations investments, which will enable Ubisoft to rebalance its existing resources on a constant headcount basis. This strategy will provide heightened visibility and profitability with a lower level of risk, thereby accelerating the generation of cash flow.

tater

02-09-10, 09:15 PM

malkuth74

02-09-10, 11:19 PM

The game will pause if you loose internet. This is totally unacceptable. TOTALLY.

WTF is wrong with these idiots?

TarJak

02-09-10, 11:23 PM

Subscriptive makes a huge amount of sense. Face it, anyone who bought SH3, 4, and the add-on would likely buy 6, 6.5, 7, and so forth.

Don't call it OSP, don;t call it DRM, just call it "silent hunter" and charge $5 a month, or $50 a year. When you buy one year, you get a free DVD of the game that comes in a box ;) .So who here would accept having to be permanently online if it was put to you this way? You don't pay aything upfront for a demo for a set period, then if you continue to play you have to subscribe either monthly or annually. You still have to be connected and you still can't play it if you work on a submarine.

RSColonel_131st

02-10-10, 04:36 AM

Head counters
[URL]High-end games strategy
In line with the announcement January 13 announcement, Ubisoft continues to refocus its high-end games strategy by concentrating on more regular releases for its major franchises. These refocusing measures also comprise a reduction in new creations investments, which will enable Ubisoft to rebalance its existing resources on a constant headcount basis. This strategy will provide heightened visibility and profitability with a lower level of risk, thereby accelerating the generation of cash flow.

Sober, this is brilliantly beautiful fitting. Thanks for showing it.

I already wrote a year ago - the sales model for computer games is awful for publishers. All that money upfront, having to build a new team every time or at least replace people that moved out... and years of waiting for the profit of sales.

So UBI clearly says "more regular releases, major franchises" - if that doesn't spell out how much they would love a subscription based sales model... all the benefits, regular predictable clash flow, fixed teams...

I can't really fault them from an economic point of view, but it is very dishonest to sell the move in that direction as "added value" for the customer.

martes86

02-10-10, 04:54 AM

So UBI clearly says "more regular releases, major franchises" - if that doesn't spell out how much they would love a subscription based sales model... all the benefits, regular predictable clash flow, fixed teams...

That isn't saying they'd do it as subscription-based. That probably means smaller games, with a bunch of addons, or rushed developments with later patches, or even worse, directly a new game. I doubt that particular sentence means for itself the choosing of a subscription-based business model, I think they'd give clearer hints. Besides, not all games are fit for that model, it wouldn't guarantee sales.

Cheers :rock:

RSColonel_131st

02-10-10, 05:11 AM

I'm not saying it was a hint by them, but the logical conclusion as far as regular franchise updates and fixed monthly cash flow go is a subscription model.

Of course the things you listed all go that way, but the ultimate way for them to realize a successful franchise of games with regular updates is a pay per month system.

Brag

02-10-10, 06:45 AM

urfisch

02-10-10, 07:33 AM

The game will pause if you loose internet. This is totally unacceptable. TOTALLY.

WTF is wrong with these idiots?

...

you are wrong. this is a well planned invention...ubi says, most people are always connected to the internet and are fine with this new method.

lol!

:har:

Brag

02-10-10, 10:26 AM

Total sales in the last quarter was Euros 495 million. fourth quarter Ubisoft had 2.7% less sales for the last quarter of 2009-10 than the previous 4th quarter. (note, this includes the Christmas period)

It presently has a negative cash flow. If sales don't increase it will have an operating loss of over 50 million euros during 2010

With DRM, they will lose well over 100,000 SH-5 sales to subsimmers. As news of our opposition to full time online, DRM/OSP spread, other titles will be affected.

Conclusion:
Ubi could very well crash and burn during 2010 unless they remove DRM for its upcoming titles.

Whether Ubi realizes this or not. The company is in serious trouble.

ryanglavin

02-10-10, 10:49 AM

tater

02-10-10, 10:56 AM

So who here would accept having to be permanently online if it was put to you this way? You don't pay aything upfront for a demo for a set period, then if you continue to play you have to subscribe either monthly or annually. You still have to be connected and you still can't play it if you work on a submarine.

I'd still dump the 100% connection requirement, that's a show-stopper for me.

Even when there is a crack to allow offline play, I'd never buy SH5/6/whatever with this requirement, even if everyone here at SS buys it, then uses the crack. Which we all know will happen. EVERYONE will use it, no one will talk about it. Still, I would not buy it because it would reward them for this choice they are making.

I'm fine with subscriptive games, I'm even fine with it phoning home now and again. Pausing me, ever, even for 1 second during my gameplay is 100% unacceptable, and I will never stand for that or pay money to a company that demands it.

tomoose

02-10-10, 10:56 AM

....the only way to really send a message is for this entire community to resist buying the game at all.
IMHO, Steam does it right (they permit offline), whereas UBI is not even permitting that and is digging itself a deep hole.
I can honestly say that I am not that addicted to the SH franchise and will not buy such a conditions-oriented game.

This reminds me of Rogers Cable TV (up here in Canada) who, a few years ago, introduced what was eventually called "negative billing". I can't rembember all the details but in short they provided all the TV channels and unless you called them to state which channels you wanted and which you didn't you would be billed for all regardless. Needless to say, there was an uproar by the consumers and Rogers was forced to apologize and relent. The consumer is sometimes heard but only when there's enough voices.:up:

Keelbuster

02-10-10, 11:27 AM

From the sound of it, this DRM concept is a deal-breaker for me. I love to stash a game away on my laptop so when i'm traveling, or if I take the laptop up to the cottage, and there's no T1, I can still bag some tonnage. SH3 with GWX is always there, so I can get in and fire a few torps. I find it offensive to have to be logged in to play; but if it actually pauses the action because of internet lag, that's insane. Based on the greedy excuse for a release that was SH4, and the insanity that they are proposing for SH5 (e.g., draconian anti-piracy measures, limited content; half a war, 1 sub; potentially console-IQ gameplay), I'm getting a good sense of where the priorities lie here. Greed - max cash, min investment of effort in development. Given that I didn't buy SH4 because my spidey-sense smelled ripoff, there's no way I'm going to buy SH5. I guess a heavily modded SH3 is as good as it gets.

Brag

02-11-10, 08:13 PM

Extracted from Gamelatest preview:

Another annoying thing is the need to be hooked to internet to play SH5. The preview copy would freeze if the internet connection was lost, and to launch the game, I had to logon to Ubisoft services first!

THE_MASK

02-11-10, 09:42 PM

Letum

02-11-10, 09:58 PM

Neal seems to be able to keep playing with the internet disconnected if you watch the preview video .

:hmmm: I wonder is Neal's copy is unusual in that respect. If it is, then Neal
may have some even more desirable files on his PC right now.

onelifecrisis

02-12-10, 12:13 AM

Neal seems to be able to keep playing with the internet disconnected if you watch the preview video .

Huh? What? What preview video?

Highbury

02-12-10, 12:33 AM

Huh? What? What preview video?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1265235&postcount=2

:salute:

onelifecrisis

02-12-10, 12:39 AM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1265235&postcount=2

:salute:

Thanks :yeah:

DarkFolle

02-12-10, 01:19 AM

Neal should come and tell us how it worked so far.

HundertzehnGustav

02-12-10, 02:16 AM

Let the man have a break...

he will stand up and speak when he is ready, and he knows pretty much what people are interested in:)

Ragtag

02-12-10, 05:25 AM

I doubt that he is allowed to talk about that. Preview codes often comes with a bunch of restrictions of what is allowed to show and talk about.

cherbert

02-12-10, 05:45 AM

I doubt that he is allowed to talk about that. Preview codes often comes with a bunch of restrictions of what is allowed to show and talk about.

Has already said that he can talk about and post whatever he likes regarding his copy.

Jimbuna

02-12-10, 04:20 PM

I doubt that he is allowed to talk about that. Preview codes often comes with a bunch of restrictions of what is allowed to show and talk about.

I don't believe that is the case in this instance. :nope:

Brag

02-17-10, 07:12 PM

Sailor Steve

02-17-10, 07:25 PM

Well, I'd refuse to buy anything more from UBIsoft, but I don't play any other games anyway, so any protest I make on that count would be kind of hollow.

But still...:nope:

Seafireliv

02-18-10, 12:55 AM

IT IS MUCH WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT:
Latest update:

PC Gamer Blog: Constant net connection required to play Assassin's Creed 2 on PC - PC Gamer Magazine (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg)

Wow. I never knew that. My m8 was going on about it, but he has an Xbox 360 with no net and he can still play it!

No way am I purchasing this now.

mobucks

02-18-10, 08:43 AM

Why make it so that you have to verify every time all the time? You would think verifying once for each computer would be enough right? My legit copy on tuesday isnt going to morph itself into a pirated copy on thursday, so why the need for a constant connection?

Seems to me the big gaming companies are crapping themselves trying to figure out why they arent making Modern Warefare 2 money on every game.

"It can't be that the games lack value, replayability, stability, entertainment. it has to be pirates!" scapegoat mentality.

It is quite sad because if pirating diddn't exist they might actually have to make quality games to make money.

Nordmann

02-18-10, 08:47 AM

Agreed. It's a cop out. Most companies are losing money because they make games which suck. People will not spend their hard earned cash on drivel, which sadly is what a lot of developers are producing these days. Oh, sure, the graphics are flashy, but what about game-play?

Nisgeis

02-18-10, 08:53 AM

Why make it so that you have to verify every time all the time?

Because you're a good for nothing, low down scum sucking pig who'd steal your grandmother's teeth if you could. Or at least, that's what I heard Ubisoft saying about you behind your back. They obviously don't trust us.

Nordmann

02-18-10, 09:16 AM

They obviously don't trust us.

Whatever gave you that impression? *continues hacking Ubi's master network*

martes86

02-18-10, 10:23 AM

Because you're a good for nothing, low down scum sucking pig who'd steal your grandmother's teeth if you could. Or at least, that's what I heard Ubisoft saying about you behind your back. They obviously don't trust us.

You're lacking a joke smilie there, it sounds too realistic. :O:

sabretwo

02-18-10, 12:10 PM

My IT guy emailed this one to me this morning:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg

Wilcke

02-18-10, 01:47 PM

My IT guy emailed this one to me this morning:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg

Well written and 100% correct.

609_Avatar

02-18-10, 02:04 PM

This part was nice to read, hopefully it will also apply to SHV:

Addendum: Some people are inferring that your savegames are only stored online - that's not the case. You can set the Ubisoft Game Launcher not to upload your saves, and even if you permit it, it seems the saves are made locally first and then uploaded when you exit the game. Whichever setting you choose, you still need to be online to launch or play the game.

Time will tell though.

Webster

02-18-10, 02:27 PM

this is the only part that im most interested in

The game first starts the Ubisoft Game Launcher, which checks for updates. If you try to launch the game when you're not online, you hit an error message right away. So I tried a different test: start the game while online, play a little, then unplug my net cable. This is the same as what happens if your net connection drops momentarily, your router is rebooted, or the game loses its connection to Ubisoft's 'Master servers'. The game stopped, and I was dumped back to a menu screen - all my progress since it last autosaved was lost.

what happened to all the assurances of pause only if you lose connection and you dont lose progress or your game?

im not buying the game with DRM anyway but for those who do this has got to be a big PITA and needs to be corrected

Hanomag

02-18-10, 02:47 PM

SIGH... :nope:

I guess its SH3 forever.. thank the Gods for GWX!!!

Kresge

02-18-10, 03:32 PM

Jimbuna

02-19-10, 06:43 AM

this is the only part that im most interested in

what happened to all the assurances of pause only if you lose connection and you dont lose progress or your game?

im not buying the game with DRM anyway but for those who do this has got to be a big PITA and needs to be corrected

Yes that is a major concern, especially when taking into account the multitude of corrupted saved game reports in previous releases.

I can't believe this issue has still to be addressed.

TarJak

02-19-10, 07:07 AM

Unfortunately I can. Ubit don't give a stuff about the customer. That much is plain by the ridiculous way in which the whole OSP fiasco is being handled by their PR/Marketing department.

Nordmann

02-19-10, 07:32 AM

SIGH... :nope:

I guess its SH3 forever.. thank the Gods for GWX!!!

Well, at least until they remove the DRM, which may well happen if the sales are less than predicted. Still, there's always SH4 + UBM + Mods, that's the route I'm taking for the time being.

Seafireliv

02-19-10, 08:07 AM

Hopefully we aren't going to have problems with mods if the game launches and does an auto update. Suddenly your mods are all screwed up and/or the campaign you were playing is toast. I've had this happened with Empire: Total War. When it first came out there were several small patches and each time it killed a campaign I had spent hours or even days working on!

Same. It`s one reason I hate Steam. For some reason it FORCES you to take the patch or update, even when you tell it no. So if you have something like Darth mod and a long Campaign, all that is screwed until a modder can figure out a fix, however long that takes. In the old days I found and installed a patch if I wished. If I had a Mod I played it without interference. Now it`s all fubared, our freedom gone. It`s as if they DON`T WANT modders to add anything to the game. I quit ETW and Steam in disgust.

As for the disconnect thing Online with SHV, I reckon you can lose a connection for a few seconds and even minutes without the game stopping, but if it doesn`t find a reconnect within 5 minutes (at most) then your game will quit. Who wants to sit there in their single player game biting their nails and hoping their game will not quit due to the net.

It`s unacceptable and I will not go through with it. If it means I never play modern, next-gen PC games again for the rest of my life, then I won`t. there`s much more in life to do and has better meaning.

badkarma

02-19-10, 08:11 AM

It's about DVD's, but I think the point is valid here..

http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg

martes86

02-19-10, 08:18 AM

Hahahahahaha, nice graphic! I don't get near as much junk in my DVDs, but yeah, some of it just could disappear. :yep:

Nordmann

02-19-10, 08:24 AM

Nice, that really hits the mark.

Iron Budokan

02-19-10, 08:31 AM

The money quote:

"If you get disconnected while playing, you're booted out of the game. All your progress since the last checkpoint or savegame is lost, and your only options are to quit to Windows or wait until you're reconnected."

I understand there are plenty of gamers who don't mind this. That's fine for them. But I'm not going to put up with it and that's why I won't be buying SH5.

Nordmann

02-19-10, 08:34 AM

I understand there are plenty of gamers who don't mind this. That's fine for them. But I'm not going to put up with it and that's why I won't be buying SH5.

Yeah, the masochistic buggers. Hell, they probably get off on staring at the disconnect screen!

Webchessie

02-19-10, 09:28 AM

Another web article . .

"Ubisoft's new DRM more annoying than expected"

http://www.techspot.com/news/37955-ubisofts-new-drm-more-annoying-than-expected.html (http://www.techspot.com/news/37955-ubisofts-new-drm-more-annoying-than-expected.html)

speedlord

02-19-10, 02:23 PM

Hi all, one more french article with the details of the DRM http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/ubisoft-detaille-protection-pc-actu-326144.html at first i thought it was just an online identification each time you play, but i can't believe that you need 55kb/s of traffic to be able to play and if you have more than x seconds of disconnection , the game stop ..... absolutly unbelievable, i really expect this game , i was resigned to buy it even with online everyday id, but ... what did they smoke ? each time you are disconnected by any reason , you can go and have a drink ? am i playing wow mmorpg subsim ? if you have a daily change of IP .. like me , do you just have to reboot ? nice green initiative also , 55kb/s of traffic just to be sure you are not a pirate multiplied by the number of player of all future games , lovely energy so carbon expense for nothing.... do they pay a tax for this ? so i was upset , i am now discouraged and sad, i will not buy it in march , and i think we should all not buy it , at least when it comes , and have a symbolic wait of one month , to show our disagree (and patch will come before we start to play :p ))

Brag

02-19-10, 03:45 PM

Thanks for the link, Speedlord.

Regardless of language or nationality, all the PC games publications show a close to unanimoue revulsion toward DRM and consider Ubi's move a terrible mistake.

Safe-Keeper

02-19-10, 04:07 PM

Wow. First this: Agreed. It's a cop out.Then this:
Most companies are losing money because they make games which suck. People will not spend their hard earned cash on drivel, which sadly is what a lot of developers are producing these days. Oh, sure, the graphics are flashy, but what about game-play?Oh, the irony.

Right, so when people consider buying the game, they hate them, but then they come home and open bittorrent, and then all of a sudden the game's worthy of their attention. Yeah ****ing right. Oh, and let me guess, all those statistics on number of downloads, etc. are just made up, right? So that when people speak of x copies pirated, they're just making stuff up out of thin cloth?

Oh, and might it not be that even though you don't like games like Modern Warfare 2, the reason they're dumbing down games is that this is what gamers want? Like the dazzling 4.7 million people who purchased the MW2 during its first 24 hours of release?

Please. Put some effort into your arguments.

Nisgeis

02-19-10, 04:21 PM

So that when people speak of x copies pirated, they're just making stuff up out of thin cloth?

There are various sources for piracy rates, ranging from 20% to 1000%. Clearly they can't all be correct. Do you have a source for accurate piracy rates in the world? I'd be interested to see the source for the 'real' figures that are quoted by various people.

TarJak

02-19-10, 04:38 PM

It's about DVD's, but I think the point is valid here..

http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpgI love the anti-piracy warnings. They are getting funnier every year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

609_Avatar

02-19-10, 04:46 PM

I love the anti-piracy warnings. They are getting funnier every year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

:har: That was great! Thanks for sharing it.

Jimbuna

02-19-10, 04:47 PM

My current favourite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htOudt9zFQY :DL

JScones

02-19-10, 06:48 PM

I can see the next press release now:

"DRM/OSP/UPLAY v2.0...now with FBI warnings!"

TarJak

02-19-10, 07:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ift1ul5_294

Sailor Steve

02-19-10, 07:19 PM

It's about DVD's, but I think the point is valid here..
I learned early on to put in the disc, then go make the popcorn. Works perfectly every time.

But I agree: They shouldn't be there.

TarJak

02-19-10, 07:35 PM

The other alternative is the buy the disk, make a copy on your HDD and then delete the advert VOB files then burn a copy of the main movie only.

HundertzehnGustav

02-19-10, 07:41 PM

LOL what an eyeopener.

I mean, does the radio play such anti-theft parodies every time i start a car?
Does the store manager play an anti-theft tune every 15 minutes or so?
Does my wife remind me not to cheat on her, every morning when i brush my teeth?

If so, i would get rid of that stupid Beetch, and get back to my "playful" lifestyle.

*scratches head*
exactly thats why i split with a woman i was once going to marry... she tried to put a chain on me, good ole maniac.
6 Moinths later she committed suicide.

well such is life innit? Weird paralels...

sabretwo

02-19-10, 09:29 PM

Right, so when people consider buying the game, they hate them, but then they come home and open bittorrent, and then all of a sudden the game's worthy of their attention. Yeah ****ing right. Oh, and let me guess, all those statistics on number of downloads, etc. are just made up, right? So that when people speak of x copies pirated, they're just making stuff up out of thin cloth?

Number of copies downloaded from torrents or other pirate sources DO NOT equate to lost sales. The game companies are trying to quantify their loss in terms of pirate copies downloaded. How many of those pirates EVER would have bought the game to begin with? Sure, there may be some loss. But the loss of sale units is by no means equal to the copies downloaded from pirate sources.

If I open a strip club along a busy street, charging $10 per entrance, and some guy chisels a hole in the wall out back and start's inviting passers-by to take a peek inside. Does that mean I lost $10 for each guy who peeked through the wall? That's a dumb way of quantifying loss. It's WILDLY inaccurate!

Onkel Neal

02-19-10, 10:21 PM

We know, heard this a thousand times. No one says it equates 1 to 1, but if a game is not cracked in the first few months, it does equate to some sales. And zero free riders.

Man, one thing about the interntz, we get to hear the same arguements over and over, on both sides.:03: But in your example, yeah, I think a lot of people who would normally pay their "hard earned money"© to see the chicks would stand and look through the hole in the wall for free.

Number of copies downloaded from torrents or other pirate sources DO NOT equate to lost sales. The game companies are trying to quantify their loss in terms of pirate copies downloaded. How many of those pirates EVER would have bought the game to begin with? Sure, there may be some loss. But the loss of sale units is by no means equal to the copies downloaded from pirate sources.

If I open a strip club along a busy street, charging $10 per entrance, and some guy chisels a hole in the wall out back and start's inviting passers-by to take a peek inside. Does that mean I lost $10 for each guy who peeked through the wall? That's a dumb way of quantifying loss. It's WILDLY inaccurate!

Ragtag

02-20-10, 03:28 AM

One thing that most people seems to forget is that the downloading of copies isn't the biggest problem with piracy. It's the pro-pirating selling games/movies/software in shops and the streets in Asia and the east. That's where the huge loss i. That is where the buying customer and companies is getting screwed and where the customer is a true buyer even if he/she knows its piracy. This customer is willing to put up the money even though it's cheaper. But he/she still are willing to pay even if the movie has total **** for quality. These guys are pro's leaving you with a pirated windows 7 that looks just like the original box. This is where the companies really looses money. Torrents are small potatoes compared to this.

Frederf

02-20-10, 04:25 AM

Selling a $60 game in a country where you make $60 a month might be half of that problem.

DRM and disposable-ware aren't to combat piracy, they are to combat second hand sales. More money gets "lost" through Gamestop used copies than piracy and Hong Kong combined. It is honest customers adhering to first sale doctrine that are the real enemy.

Jimbuna

02-20-10, 05:32 AM

sabretwo

02-21-10, 12:02 AM

Man, one thing about the interntz, we get to hear the same arguements over and over, on both sides.:03: But in your example, yeah, I think a lot of people who would normally pay their "hard earned money"© to see the chicks would stand and look through the hole in the wall for free.

We can disagree here and I respect your opinion, but I think you're wrong. I think most legitimate buyers don't even mess with pirate software to begin with. I have never downloaded or played an illegal game in my life.

Putting it in terms of my analogy, if the girls are worth seeing, I always pay my entrance fees...gotta support the house. If not, there will be all those single moms out there without jobs. :cool:

sabretwo

02-21-10, 12:03 AM

(Double Posted)

HundertzehnGustav

02-21-10, 02:37 AM

We can disagree here and I respect your opinion, but I think you're wrong. I think most legitimate buyers don't even mess with pirate software to begin with. I have never downloaded or played an illegal game in my life.

Putting it in terms of my analogy, if the girls are worth seeing, I always pay my entrance fees...gotta support the house. If not, there will be all those single moms out there without jobs. :cool:

:o

:rock::haha:

goldorak

02-21-10, 06:25 AM

I love the anti-piracy warnings. They are getting funnier every year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

Funny that you mention it.
I stopped buying FOX dvds not only because of FBI warning but for the antipiracy advertisement before even getting to the film itself.
I got burned with the 2 disk special edition of The Fly (one of my favorite films) and from then on I crossed Fox off my list. Its absurd and obnoxious having to witness antipiracy adds in the fricking legal DVD I just bought. :damn:

That just show you that even if you are honest, the powers that be consider you to be a filthy pirate.
Thats not a good way to make business.

jwilliams

02-21-10, 06:47 AM

And the pirated versions have none of the anti piracy stuff on em.... only the bought and pay'd for versions... again the customers suffers while pirates get the hassle free versions.

Brag

02-21-10, 02:01 PM

Link:- http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg (http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg)

This article shows Ubi as not only arrogant, but incredibly stupid.

Thomen

02-21-10, 02:06 PM

Link:-http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg (http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35596&site=pcg)

This article shows Ubi as not only arrogant, but incredibly stupid.

Link does not work. It does not work either in the other post you put it in. ;)

HundertzehnGustav

02-21-10, 02:07 PM

cannot access, page not found?

OakGroove

02-21-10, 02:09 PM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235596&site=pcg

This?

Kaleun_Endrass

02-21-10, 02:13 PM

Link does not work. It does not work either in the other post you put it in. ;)
cannot access, page not found?
I guess he tried to link this (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235596&site=pcg)

HundertzehnGustav

02-21-10, 02:24 PM

red itb be4... and agree.
no promises whatsoever, just hot air.

Bunch of f'n liars i tells ya...

Nordmann

02-21-10, 02:36 PM

And the pirated versions have none of the anti piracy stuff on em.... only the bought and pay'd for versions... again the customers suffers while pirates get the hassle free versions.

Yeah, funny logic isn't it. To put things into context, and since we all like analogies:

You walk into a store, and are immediately stopped and searched by a security guard. Meanwhile, in the same instant, several shoplifters enter the store, unnoticed by said guard. On your way out you are again searched by the guard, convinced you must have taken something illegally. While he continues his search, the same shoplifters leave the store, pockets stuffed full of stolen goods, again unnoticed by the distracted guard.

Great stuff Ubi, great stuff!

Brag

02-22-10, 05:58 AM

It is now front page article in the Subsim News page! The critical press coverage is turning into an avalanche that will bury Ubisoft.

piri_reis

02-22-10, 06:07 AM

It is now front page article in the Subsim News page! The critical press coverage is turning into an avalanche that will bury Ubisoft.

Well not Ubi but hoping the management that decided on this scheme and OSP itself will be burried, soon :arrgh!:

Brag

02-22-10, 08:36 AM

Here is another one for the collection.

http://hothardware.com/cs/forums/p/46855/350422.aspx (http://hothardware.com/cs/forums/p/46855/350422.aspx) :up::up::up:

sabretwo

02-22-10, 10:23 AM

Quoted from article:http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235596&site=pcg

---------------------
What's the problem this DRM is trying to address?
Ubi are increasingly concerned about piracy on the PC. "It's a huge problem - you know it, I know it, other people know it. It really is a very important issue that all serious companies need to address," says their spokesperson. But they also believe that their online services will make PC gaming better. "The real idea is that if you offer a game that is better when you buy it, then people will actually buy it. We wouldn't have built it if we thought that it was really going to piss off our customers."
-----------------------

Boy, they really did their homework on this one! :har:

I guess the execs over at UBI must be exempt from urinalysis testing! :haha:

HundertzehnGustav

02-22-10, 11:30 AM

http://hothardware.com/cs/forums/p/46855/350422.aspx
the corporate executives at the helm have the collective intelligence of a ham sandwich.

:haha: Bullseye! Right below the funnel!

Reece

02-22-10, 08:19 PM

It's really sad that UBI would treat its paying customers like sh!t!!:oops::doh:

Brag

02-23-10, 09:35 AM

The Christian Science Monitor, one of U.S. most prestigious newspapers also blasts Ubisoft.

Why Ubisoft DRM for Assassin's Creed 2 has outraged gamers / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Horizons/2010/0219/Why-Ubisoft-DRM-for-Assassin-s-Creed-2-has-outraged-gamers)

OakGroove

02-23-10, 10:48 AM

Not exactly an interview sparkling with critisism .. but shows what UPlay is about. DRM is not mentioned.

snippet:

Q: What are the key objectives of the service?

A: I guess if you were to take the top level objective, because I think each service provides different values and a different set of objectives, I think ultimately it’s about providing a relationship with the consumer. One of the problems of large scale publishers with lots of different titles is that they don’t necessarily have an identity or connection to the consumer. I think the idea with Uplay is to provide something where it’s familiar. It’s like someone’s favourite chain - you know what to order and you know where everything is, and the idea that you’re being recognised over time with it is of additional value.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/interview-ubisofts-uplay?page=0%2C0

Brag

02-23-10, 11:42 AM

Thanks for the link, Oakgroove! :salute:
The article reveals a bit on how Ubisoft works. Considering that maybe a little over a week ago they were calling DRM OSP, their upper management suddenly remembered what their San Francisco chap proposed two years ago. Uplay sounds friendlier than OSP--I won't comment further :DL

floundericiousWA

02-23-10, 12:28 PM

PC Gamer Blog: Constant net connection required to play Assassin's Creed 2 on PC - PC Gamer Magazine (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg)

Read their Q&A linked on the second update to that article

:nope::nope::nope::nope:

ooooh Ubisoft....*sigh*:down:

edit: from the link Oakgrove provided just above in post #190:

Assassin’s Creed II sold 1.6 million (http://www.edge-online.com/news/assassin%E2%80%99s-creed-ii-sells-16-million-in-first-week) copies in its first week. How many of those customers have accessed Uplay since the service launched alongside the game?
I can’t disclose the specifics but I can say that we are getting a very high percentage of users using it. It’s only accessible if you’re online but… what we’re seeing with Assassin’s is very high.

....WELL, DUH!

Nisgeis

02-23-10, 12:41 PM

Assassin’s Creed II sold 1.6 million (http://www.edge-online.com/news/assassin%E2%80%99s-creed-ii-sells-16-million-in-first-week) copies in its first week. How many of those customers have accessed Uplay since the service launched alongside the game?
I can’t disclose the specifics but I can say that we are getting a very high percentage of users using it. It’s only accessible if you’re online but… what we’re seeing with Assassin’s is very high.

....WELL, DUH!

Sorry Floundericious (great name btw), but I don't get what you're trying to say here?

kylania

02-23-10, 12:58 PM

I think he's pointing out the stupidity of clarifying that your online system can only be used while online.

The main problem is I very well MIGHT choose to store my saved games on UPlay so I can start a game at work and finish it at home. The big difference is I would CHOOSE to do that not be FORCED to do that.

I'd even be happy if you could only save via UPlay. That way offline you could mission all you wanted while disconnected. But in order to play the campaign and save you'd have to be connected to their silly little service. In all honestly, that's still too restrictive, but not as restrictive as it is now.

Uplay could be good, but not when it's forced on us for single player games.

SteamWake

02-23-10, 01:09 PM